Source:
https://www.spreaker.com/episode/443-mars-mega-lake-iss-archaeology-mysteries--61037038
Space Nuts: Mars' Ancient Lake, ISS Archaeology, and Science Fiction's Real Impact Join Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson in this captivating episode of Space Nuts, where they explore the latest discoveries and intriguing connections between science and science fiction.
Episode Highlights:
- Mind-Blowing Mars Discovery: Dive into the latest findings on Mars, where scientists have identified what could be the largest ancient lake on the planet, Lake Eridania, which was three times bigger than Earth's Caspian Sea. Fred Watson Watson discusses the implications of this discovery and the potential for past microbial life.
- - ISS Archaeology: Archaeology isn't just about digging in the dirt. Discover how researchers are using archaeological methods to study the International Space Station, revealing fascinating insights into how astronauts adapt their environment over time.
- - Science Fiction and Real Science: Explore the symbiotic relationship between science fiction and real science. Learn how science fiction has inspired careers in science and how it educates the public about scientific possibilities and challenges.
- Don't forget to send us your questions for our Q&A episodes via our website... https://www.spacenuts.io
- Support Space Nuts and join us on this interstellar journey by visiting our https://www.bitesz.com/show/space-nuts/support/ Your contributions help us continue our mission to explore the wonders of the universe. Clear skies and boundless exploration await on Space Nuts, where we make the cosmos your backyard.
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00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 hi there how you going Andrew Dunley
00:00:02 --> 00:00:04 here great to have your company again on
00:00:04 --> 00:00:07 another edition of Space Nuts coming up
00:00:07 --> 00:00:09 on this episode we're going to be
00:00:09 --> 00:00:12 looking at well Mars gosh when was the
00:00:12 --> 00:00:14 last time we did that about a week ago
00:00:14 --> 00:00:17 but good reason for it because they've
00:00:17 --> 00:00:20 uh made a discovery that uh is
00:00:20 --> 00:00:22 mindblowing uh lots of things on Mars
00:00:22 --> 00:00:24 are bigger than they are on earth even
00:00:24 --> 00:00:26 though it's a much smaller Planet this
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28 is one of those we're also talking
00:00:28 --> 00:00:30 archaeology now where
00:00:30 --> 00:00:32 um when you talk archaeology you're
00:00:32 --> 00:00:34 thinking of um people digging around in
00:00:34 --> 00:00:36 the dirt looking at bones no they're
00:00:36 --> 00:00:39 looking at dirty socks on the ISS
00:00:39 --> 00:00:41 amongst other things um or maybe not
00:00:41 --> 00:00:43 specifically socks but the International
00:00:43 --> 00:00:46 Space Station yes and the link between
00:00:46 --> 00:00:49 science fiction and real science uh
00:00:49 --> 00:00:52 there's a fascinating story that talks
00:00:52 --> 00:00:54 about that as well all coming up on this
00:00:54 --> 00:00:58 edition of Space Nuts 15 seconds
00:00:58 --> 00:01:02 guidance is internal 10 9 ignition
00:01:02 --> 00:01:08 sequence start Space Nuts 5 4 3 2 1 2 3
00:01:08 --> 00:01:14 4 Space Nuts asut report feels good and
00:01:14 --> 00:01:17 here to discuss it all and talk about
00:01:17 --> 00:01:20 the shopping list from last week is
00:01:20 --> 00:01:21 Professor Fred Watson astronomer at
00:01:21 --> 00:01:24 large hello Fred well there bacon
00:01:24 --> 00:01:27 there's corn flakes there's soap all on
00:01:27 --> 00:01:29 the shopping list from last week so
00:01:29 --> 00:01:31 plenty to talk about it's all processed
00:01:32 --> 00:01:34 food even the soap Yes even the soap
00:01:34 --> 00:01:38 yeah apparently that's pardon do you as
00:01:38 --> 00:01:40 well yeah oh I did when I was a kid I
00:01:40 --> 00:01:42 was a pretty stupid kid though but
00:01:42 --> 00:01:43 apparently it's very good for catching
00:01:44 --> 00:01:46 mice is soap I'm
00:01:46 --> 00:01:48 told well there you go that's
00:01:48 --> 00:01:50 interesting yes I don't know how true it
00:01:50 --> 00:01:53 is but uh I've never tried it throw
00:01:53 --> 00:01:55 throw it at the mice or you put it on
00:01:55 --> 00:01:58 the on the mouse trap and then okay yeah
00:01:58 --> 00:02:00 maybe it's the smell like gets them in
00:02:00 --> 00:02:02 and bang you got well that's right could
00:02:03 --> 00:02:06 be yes I don't don't know for
00:02:06 --> 00:02:08 certain um shall we just get started
00:02:08 --> 00:02:10 because we got a lot to get through yes
00:02:10 --> 00:02:13 we should okay let's do that uh our
00:02:14 --> 00:02:17 first story today involves uh the red
00:02:17 --> 00:02:20 planet Mars and as I mentioned at the
00:02:20 --> 00:02:22 very beginning it's a it's a place with
00:02:22 --> 00:02:24 uh some of the biggest things in the
00:02:24 --> 00:02:26 solar system the the the biggest
00:02:26 --> 00:02:29 mountains the deepest canyons and now it
00:02:29 --> 00:02:32 looks like the largest lake it's uh it's
00:02:32 --> 00:02:35 a it's an really fascinating place for
00:02:35 --> 00:02:38 all of those reasons and more for it uh
00:02:38 --> 00:02:42 yes it is um and in some ways this is uh
00:02:42 --> 00:02:46 a bit surprising um because we know that
00:02:46 --> 00:02:48 probably most of Mars's northern
00:02:48 --> 00:02:50 hemisphere in ancient times and by that
00:02:51 --> 00:02:53 I mean three to four billion years ago
00:02:53 --> 00:02:56 probably had uh World water on it it
00:02:56 --> 00:02:59 probably had an ocean uh that U
00:02:59 --> 00:03:01 basically covered it uh we don't know
00:03:01 --> 00:03:03 whether that ocean lasted a long time
00:03:03 --> 00:03:05 whether it was something temporary or
00:03:05 --> 00:03:07 whether it sat there for hundreds of
00:03:07 --> 00:03:09 millions of years but it definitely had
00:03:09 --> 00:03:11 its effect on the landscape but this
00:03:11 --> 00:03:13 story is
00:03:13 --> 00:03:15 from actually it's kind of the
00:03:15 --> 00:03:18 equatorial region of Mars um in fact
00:03:18 --> 00:03:19 it's it's actually um in the southern
00:03:19 --> 00:03:21 hemisphere that that we're talking about
00:03:21 --> 00:03:23 so not that far south of the Equator I
00:03:23 --> 00:03:25 think from aboutus
00:03:25 --> 00:03:30 205 deges uh um what we have there is a
00:03:30 --> 00:03:34 much more Highland region of Mars that's
00:03:34 --> 00:03:36 where a lot of craters are where there
00:03:36 --> 00:03:39 are a lot of mountains uh and uh it's a
00:03:39 --> 00:03:41 region that you wouldn't expect to be
00:03:41 --> 00:03:44 home to large bodies of water but images
00:03:44 --> 00:03:47 from the European space agencies Mars
00:03:47 --> 00:03:49 Express which has been photographing
00:03:49 --> 00:03:52 Mars from above I don't know probably
00:03:52 --> 00:03:54 about the the best part of certainly
00:03:54 --> 00:03:57 more than 10 years probably more like 15
00:03:57 --> 00:04:01 years uh Mars Express uh has not only
00:04:01 --> 00:04:04 photographed the surface of Mars um but
00:04:04 --> 00:04:06 also as it is orbited the planet it's
00:04:06 --> 00:04:10 got ground surface radar uh so you get
00:04:10 --> 00:04:12 very accurate topographical maps and
00:04:12 --> 00:04:15 it's by studying those maps that um
00:04:15 --> 00:04:17 scientists based at uh a number of
00:04:17 --> 00:04:20 institutions in Europe um have what
00:04:20 --> 00:04:22 they've done is they've looked very
00:04:22 --> 00:04:26 carefully at the topo topography of a
00:04:26 --> 00:04:30 region um which is quite quite a large
00:04:30 --> 00:04:33 region of Mars that encompasses several
00:04:33 --> 00:04:38 uh regions The ariad KES the gonum chaos
00:04:38 --> 00:04:42 the Newton crater uh car caralis chaos
00:04:42 --> 00:04:45 all of these are zones on
00:04:45 --> 00:04:47 Mars turns out though that you can lump
00:04:48 --> 00:04:50 them all together uh and you can draw a
00:04:50 --> 00:04:53 contour around them and you can also
00:04:53 --> 00:04:56 from that work out that that was once a
00:04:56 --> 00:04:58 shoreline uh and U from that you can
00:04:58 --> 00:05:02 establish that uh and it's not just the
00:05:02 --> 00:05:04 appearance of this I think the chemistry
00:05:04 --> 00:05:07 actually also uh Bears backs this up uh
00:05:07 --> 00:05:08 but you can work out that there was a
00:05:09 --> 00:05:11 very large lake there uh which has a
00:05:11 --> 00:05:13 name uh it is called Lake
00:05:14 --> 00:05:17 eridania uh and Lake eridania as I said
00:05:17 --> 00:05:20 three times bigger than the biggest uh
00:05:20 --> 00:05:22 Lake on Earth which is the Caspian Sea
00:05:22 --> 00:05:25 uh so it's a colossal body of water or
00:05:25 --> 00:05:27 it would have been when it was wet it's
00:05:27 --> 00:05:30 not wet now but the evidence is all
00:05:30 --> 00:05:33 there and um there's so much geological
00:05:33 --> 00:05:35 support for this idea that to some
00:05:35 --> 00:05:37 extent it's surprising that we haven't
00:05:37 --> 00:05:40 been talking about it before uh but yes
00:05:40 --> 00:05:43 much is being learned uh about this
00:05:43 --> 00:05:46 region of Mars and it may will may maybe
00:05:46 --> 00:05:49 that it also involved geothermal
00:05:49 --> 00:05:52 activity um you know when when uh uh
00:05:52 --> 00:05:54 when that water was there there may well
00:05:54 --> 00:05:56 have been geothermal vents on the on the
00:05:56 --> 00:05:58 floor of that Lake uh which have given
00:05:58 --> 00:05:59 rise to some of the interesting
00:05:59 --> 00:06:02 chemistry of the minerals that that that
00:06:02 --> 00:06:05 we find on on that region so yeah really
00:06:05 --> 00:06:08 interesting story from a planet that
00:06:08 --> 00:06:10 yeah it's the planet that keeps on
00:06:10 --> 00:06:13 giving really isn't it Mars yeah so so
00:06:13 --> 00:06:16 three times bigger than the Caspian Sea
00:06:16 --> 00:06:19 which is the biggest inland body of
00:06:19 --> 00:06:22 water on Earth and it measures 371
00:06:22 --> 00:06:25 Square kilm so we're
00:06:25 --> 00:06:29 talking what 1 to 1.2 million square
00:06:29 --> 00:06:32 kilm of water something of that sort
00:06:32 --> 00:06:35 that's correct uh you know about 1.1
00:06:35 --> 00:06:37 million square kilometers is the
00:06:37 --> 00:06:39 estimate from the scientists whove done
00:06:39 --> 00:06:45 this work uh it's um you know it it is
00:06:45 --> 00:06:47 uh when you think of a of a body of
00:06:47 --> 00:06:49 water like that you think in terms of
00:06:49 --> 00:06:52 oceans uh it's not an ocean it's
00:06:52 --> 00:06:55 basically bounded by land uh unlike the
00:06:55 --> 00:06:58 ocean in the northern hemisphere which
00:06:58 --> 00:06:59 uh certainly was bounded on Southern
00:07:00 --> 00:07:02 border but uh but probably cover the
00:07:02 --> 00:07:05 polar region as well so it is um yes
00:07:05 --> 00:07:07 it's it's what you could perhaps call an
00:07:07 --> 00:07:09 inland sea or a lake but whatever it was
00:07:09 --> 00:07:12 it's a lot of water uh and um right
00:07:12 --> 00:07:14 really quite extraordinary evidence for
00:07:14 --> 00:07:17 its existence to the the paper that um
00:07:17 --> 00:07:18 we've been looking at and there's a very
00:07:19 --> 00:07:21 nice summary of this on Universe today
00:07:21 --> 00:07:24 uh website uh that shows some of the
00:07:24 --> 00:07:27 evidence uh as to why we now believe
00:07:27 --> 00:07:31 that this Lake existed yeah um it it it
00:07:31 --> 00:07:35 it shows that um or it confirms I
00:07:35 --> 00:07:37 suppose previous theories about the
00:07:37 --> 00:07:40 abundance of water on Mars do we have
00:07:40 --> 00:07:43 any idea what kind of water it might
00:07:43 --> 00:07:45 have been has that sort of
00:07:45 --> 00:07:54 been was probably wet uh was it
00:07:54 --> 00:07:57 salty it might have had uh because of
00:07:57 --> 00:07:59 the fact that we you know the the
00:07:59 --> 00:08:00 scientists have really looked very
00:08:00 --> 00:08:03 closely at the minerals uh that have
00:08:03 --> 00:08:06 been deposited on the floor of this
00:08:06 --> 00:08:08 extinct Lake um in particular chlorides
00:08:08 --> 00:08:11 around the around the shoreline um and
00:08:11 --> 00:08:14 which may be related to the um you know
00:08:14 --> 00:08:16 volcanic activity uh the suggestion is
00:08:16 --> 00:08:18 that it would have been quite rich in
00:08:18 --> 00:08:20 minerals so yes salty is probably a good
00:08:20 --> 00:08:24 way a good way to describe it um it's um
00:08:24 --> 00:08:26 this some very interesting chemistry
00:08:26 --> 00:08:28 that's uh that I think is being studied
00:08:28 --> 00:08:31 in relation to to this so very fine
00:08:31 --> 00:08:32 piece of
00:08:32 --> 00:08:35 work could it have existed long enough
00:08:35 --> 00:08:39 for some kind of microbial life to exist
00:08:39 --> 00:08:42 $64 Question there yeah it is maybe
00:08:42 --> 00:08:46 it could uh you know maybe um uh you
00:08:46 --> 00:08:49 could find evidence of Life there uh and
00:08:49 --> 00:08:51 and I suppose the reasoning will be very
00:08:51 --> 00:08:53 similar to why perseverance is in jzo
00:08:53 --> 00:08:55 Crater at the moment because that's a
00:08:55 --> 00:08:58 place where there was a where definitely
00:08:58 --> 00:09:01 was a river Dela a river Delta uh which
00:09:01 --> 00:09:04 is thought to have deposited material
00:09:04 --> 00:09:07 brought down from a long river system uh
00:09:07 --> 00:09:09 quite a long way actually from the
00:09:09 --> 00:09:11 region we're talking about at the moment
00:09:11 --> 00:09:14 but but um it it's a place where you
00:09:14 --> 00:09:15 expect the sediments to have been
00:09:15 --> 00:09:18 dropped to the to the floor of the
00:09:18 --> 00:09:20 crater in the case of gzro crater and
00:09:20 --> 00:09:22 they might carry evidence of microbial
00:09:22 --> 00:09:24 Life as we talked about not very long
00:09:24 --> 00:09:26 ago and it's possible that this lake
00:09:26 --> 00:09:29 lake eridania might also have the same
00:09:29 --> 00:09:32 sort of properties that maybe um the the
00:09:32 --> 00:09:35 sediments on its on its bed um which in
00:09:35 --> 00:09:37 some cases were you know almost a
00:09:37 --> 00:09:39 kilometer below the surface it's a deep
00:09:39 --> 00:09:42 lake it's not uh not just a a shallow
00:09:42 --> 00:09:45 stretch of of land uh so that there may
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 be evidence to be gained uh if somebody
00:09:48 --> 00:09:50 felt like sending a spacecraft there to
00:09:50 --> 00:09:53 have a look oh yeah yeah it sounds like
00:09:53 --> 00:09:56 it's a prime target for future
00:09:56 --> 00:09:58 investigation so yes yeah uh and the
00:09:58 --> 00:10:00 volcanic activity that went along with
00:10:00 --> 00:10:03 it may well have um you know we talk
00:10:03 --> 00:10:06 about volcanic activity in the depths of
00:10:06 --> 00:10:10 our ocean where life is abundant so you
00:10:10 --> 00:10:12 know could that kind of scenario have
00:10:12 --> 00:10:16 existed in this particular Lake on Mars
00:10:16 --> 00:10:18 who knows uh we're talking about a time
00:10:18 --> 00:10:22 frame of 3 to four billion years when
00:10:22 --> 00:10:23 this Lake existed but it took a long
00:10:24 --> 00:10:26 time to to disappear from what I can
00:10:26 --> 00:10:28 tell I think that's right and you know
00:10:28 --> 00:10:32 that's uh one of the one of the areas of
00:10:32 --> 00:10:34 interest in uh in terms of research on
00:10:34 --> 00:10:37 Mars how long uh did it take for Mars to
00:10:37 --> 00:10:40 become a dry a cold and dry World rather
00:10:40 --> 00:10:42 than a warm and wet World in fact it's
00:10:42 --> 00:10:44 it's a question we've had from space
00:10:44 --> 00:10:46 Nots listeners as well how long did that
00:10:46 --> 00:10:48 process take and it probably took quite
00:10:48 --> 00:10:50 a long time and it may have occurred in
00:10:50 --> 00:10:52 episodes Andrew where you've got a wet
00:10:52 --> 00:10:54 period and then a dry period and then a
00:10:54 --> 00:10:56 wet period and the dry period just gets
00:10:56 --> 00:10:59 up bit longer than the last one was and
00:10:59 --> 00:11:00 before you know where you are you've
00:11:00 --> 00:11:04 you've dried up the whole thing uh and
00:11:04 --> 00:11:05 we'll never really be able to play a
00:11:05 --> 00:11:07 movie of that but I'm sure the evidence
00:11:07 --> 00:11:10 will build up as to what kind of
00:11:10 --> 00:11:13 duration these uh these Water Systems
00:11:13 --> 00:11:16 had yes indeed imagine if Humanity had
00:11:16 --> 00:11:19 time to evolve on Mars and then came to
00:11:19 --> 00:11:21 the realization that their planet was
00:11:21 --> 00:11:24 dying that would be a horrible thing to
00:11:24 --> 00:11:26 discover sounds like a science fiction
00:11:26 --> 00:11:29 story does that the start of sence
00:11:29 --> 00:11:33 yes yeah yeah um it's called three body
00:11:33 --> 00:11:36 problem that's what it's about but yeah
00:11:36 --> 00:11:39 I mean imagine if we right now made that
00:11:39 --> 00:11:42 Discovery we are not yet technology
00:11:42 --> 00:11:45 technologically capable of of doing
00:11:45 --> 00:11:47 anything about it in the in the short
00:11:47 --> 00:11:49 term and we certainly aren't in a
00:11:49 --> 00:11:51 position to say all right let's leave
00:11:51 --> 00:11:54 because this place is you know not going
00:11:54 --> 00:11:56 to be worth hanging around well there's
00:11:56 --> 00:11:58 some there's already one person who
00:11:58 --> 00:12:01 thinks like that
00:12:01 --> 00:12:04 um but no the odds are that you you know
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07 you you'd have a very long lead time for
00:12:07 --> 00:12:09 that kind of thing and just hope your
00:12:09 --> 00:12:11 technology catches up which it probably
00:12:11 --> 00:12:15 would yes yes indeed all right uh as
00:12:15 --> 00:12:17 Fred said if you would like to read up
00:12:17 --> 00:12:20 on that story great article on
00:12:20 --> 00:12:23 universetoday decom this is Space Nuts
00:12:23 --> 00:12:27 Andrew Dunley with Professor Fred
00:12:27 --> 00:12:29 Watson and I'm
00:12:29 --> 00:12:32 fine Space Nuts now Fred to our next
00:12:32 --> 00:12:36 story and that is archaeology now
00:12:36 --> 00:12:41 Archaeology is U the study of historical
00:12:41 --> 00:12:44 artifacts to learn about uh the people
00:12:44 --> 00:12:48 and places of of the past that's a
00:12:48 --> 00:12:50 pretty loose uh definition there's all
00:12:50 --> 00:12:53 sorts of variations in what Archaeology
00:12:53 --> 00:12:54 is and what it's trying to achieve but
00:12:54 --> 00:12:56 we we generally think about people you
00:12:56 --> 00:12:58 know with the little brushes and Spades
00:12:58 --> 00:13:00 digging around the dirt looking for
00:13:00 --> 00:13:03 Triceratops skulls and um digging around
00:13:04 --> 00:13:07 the ruins of Pompei for example but this
00:13:07 --> 00:13:09 is archaeology with a difference uh this
00:13:09 --> 00:13:11 is photographic archaeology courtesy of
00:13:11 --> 00:13:13 the International Space Station and its
00:13:13 --> 00:13:18 onboard Cruise as they changed and um
00:13:18 --> 00:13:20 did their work over the last two and a
00:13:20 --> 00:13:23 half decades and they're coming up with
00:13:23 --> 00:13:24 some interesting
00:13:24 --> 00:13:27 stuff they are indeed actually um one of
00:13:27 --> 00:13:31 the authors of this uh work is an
00:13:31 --> 00:13:33 Australian uh colleague actually
00:13:33 --> 00:13:35 somebody I know not not terribly well
00:13:36 --> 00:13:38 but I do know her name is Alice Gorman
00:13:38 --> 00:13:40 she's very well known as a space
00:13:40 --> 00:13:42 archaeologist here in Australia she's at
00:13:42 --> 00:13:47 at Flinders University uh so um that is
00:13:47 --> 00:13:49 uh you know the preface to what I think
00:13:50 --> 00:13:53 is a really interesting piece of work uh
00:13:53 --> 00:13:56 and you know what what has happened is
00:13:56 --> 00:14:00 that um they uh Alice and her colleagues
00:14:00 --> 00:14:04 have Applied Standard archaeological
00:14:04 --> 00:14:08 methods to a very non-standard
00:14:08 --> 00:14:10 environment namely the space station
00:14:10 --> 00:14:14 they've uh they've basically divided the
00:14:14 --> 00:14:18 space station up into one meter squares
00:14:18 --> 00:14:21 all the surface area and that's what you
00:14:21 --> 00:14:23 do in archaeology you divide your
00:14:23 --> 00:14:25 archaeological site into a grid of one
00:14:25 --> 00:14:29 meter squares and then you take
00:14:29 --> 00:14:32 excavations of some of those squares
00:14:32 --> 00:14:34 which are known as test pits uh and so
00:14:35 --> 00:14:38 you dig your pit uh one meter square and
00:14:38 --> 00:14:40 that gives you a sample of what kind of
00:14:41 --> 00:14:45 stuff there is in there and so um
00:14:45 --> 00:14:48 the scientists who've done this work
00:14:48 --> 00:14:51 have obviously uh collaborated very
00:14:51 --> 00:14:53 strongly with the the crew of the
00:14:53 --> 00:14:56 International Space Station uh which
00:14:56 --> 00:14:58 itself is a Movable Feast because um in
00:14:58 --> 00:15:01 the the 23 years or 24 years that it's
00:15:01 --> 00:15:05 been inhabited um something like 280
00:15:05 --> 00:15:08 people have visited it so yeah that
00:15:08 --> 00:15:09 blows my mind I would never have put it
00:15:09 --> 00:15:14 at that many wow yeah it's a lot uh so
00:15:14 --> 00:15:18 that um large number you know some of
00:15:18 --> 00:15:22 the the recent inhabitants have been not
00:15:22 --> 00:15:24 coopted but have been uh collaborating
00:15:24 --> 00:15:29 with the archaeologists to to do um what
00:15:29 --> 00:15:31 uh archaeologists do and what they've
00:15:31 --> 00:15:33 done is laid out
00:15:33 --> 00:15:37 five what what they call sample areas uh
00:15:37 --> 00:15:39 which are roughly a meter Square uh to
00:15:39 --> 00:15:42 to follow standard archaeological
00:15:42 --> 00:15:45 practice um and um there's a very nice
00:15:45 --> 00:15:47 conversation article about this so I'm
00:15:47 --> 00:15:50 going to read from uh that because I um
00:15:50 --> 00:15:53 I think it's probably better than I
00:15:53 --> 00:15:55 could put it we chose the square
00:15:55 --> 00:15:58 locations to Encompass zones of work
00:15:58 --> 00:16:01 science EX size and Leisure uh the crew
00:16:01 --> 00:16:02 also selected a sixth area based on
00:16:03 --> 00:16:04 their own idea of what might be
00:16:04 --> 00:16:07 interesting to observe um and there's a
00:16:07 --> 00:16:10 actually a nice uh acknowledgement there
00:16:10 --> 00:16:12 the study was was uh sponsored by the
00:16:12 --> 00:16:14 International Space Station National
00:16:14 --> 00:16:16 Laboratory uh and what what they've done
00:16:16 --> 00:16:20 is they've uh they've given the um the
00:16:20 --> 00:16:23 space archaeology exercise a name uh it
00:16:23 --> 00:16:25 is an acronym and the AC I love it I
00:16:25 --> 00:16:27 love this it's a good one isn't it it's
00:16:27 --> 00:16:29 a good good one it's the sampling
00:16:30 --> 00:16:32 quadrangle assemblages research
00:16:32 --> 00:16:34 experiment or
00:16:34 --> 00:16:37 Square that's very clever be there or be
00:16:37 --> 00:16:40 square that's right it's so they Square
00:16:40 --> 00:16:43 um and yeah what they found is really
00:16:43 --> 00:16:46 interesting um and some of the areas
00:16:46 --> 00:16:50 that they've sampled are very busy areas
00:16:50 --> 00:16:51 you know on the way from one part of the
00:16:51 --> 00:16:55 space St space station to another U the
00:16:55 --> 00:16:59 there's a rather nice um a rather nice
00:16:59 --> 00:17:03 uh summary here um in the conversation
00:17:03 --> 00:17:05 article the space station is cluttered
00:17:05 --> 00:17:08 and chaotic cramped and
00:17:08 --> 00:17:10 dirty yeah there are no boundaries
00:17:10 --> 00:17:12 between where the crew works and where
00:17:12 --> 00:17:14 they rest there's little or no privacy
00:17:14 --> 00:17:17 there isn't even a shower um so uh you
00:17:17 --> 00:17:19 know that sentence actually reminds me
00:17:19 --> 00:17:23 of um of the Von Dr Destructor Fleet
00:17:23 --> 00:17:25 because full of old mattresses
00:17:25 --> 00:17:29 mattresses yeah
00:17:29 --> 00:17:33 it's probably like that yeah anyway um
00:17:33 --> 00:17:35 uh so they've
00:17:35 --> 00:17:39 analyzed the conversation article uh
00:17:39 --> 00:17:41 that the these authors have written uh
00:17:41 --> 00:17:44 analyzes the the first two squares and
00:17:44 --> 00:17:47 one uh I'm reading again one was located
00:17:47 --> 00:17:49 in the US node 2 module where there are
00:17:49 --> 00:17:51 four crew births and connections to the
00:17:51 --> 00:17:53 European and Japanese Labs visiting
00:17:53 --> 00:17:56 spacecraft often dock here our Target
00:17:56 --> 00:17:57 was a wall where the maintenance work
00:17:57 --> 00:18:00 area is located there's a blue metal
00:18:00 --> 00:18:03 panel with 40 velcro squares on it and
00:18:03 --> 00:18:05 the table before for fixing equipment or
00:18:05 --> 00:18:09 doing experiments um and NASA intended
00:18:09 --> 00:18:11 the area to be used for maintenance
00:18:11 --> 00:18:13 however we saw hardly any evidence of
00:18:13 --> 00:18:15 Maintenance there and only a handful of
00:18:15 --> 00:18:18 science activities in fact for 50 of the
00:18:18 --> 00:18:20 days covered by our survey the square
00:18:20 --> 00:18:22 was only used for storing items which
00:18:22 --> 00:18:25 may not even have been used there so
00:18:25 --> 00:18:28 it's because the amount of velcro there
00:18:28 --> 00:18:30 uh you know made it just made it perfect
00:18:30 --> 00:18:33 for storing things yeah uh it says close
00:18:33 --> 00:18:37 to half all the items recorded 44% were
00:18:37 --> 00:18:39 related to holding other items in place
00:18:40 --> 00:18:44 so that's amazing yeah I suppose one of
00:18:44 --> 00:18:45 the things that discovered from all of
00:18:45 --> 00:18:48 this is that if they're going to build
00:18:48 --> 00:18:50 space stations in the future and they
00:18:50 --> 00:18:54 probably will they need to consider
00:18:54 --> 00:18:56 things like storage I mean even when we
00:18:56 --> 00:18:59 were selling our last house one of the
00:18:59 --> 00:19:01 feedback things was where's all the
00:19:01 --> 00:19:04 storage we need storage yes want more
00:19:04 --> 00:19:06 storage well it sounds like it's exactly
00:19:06 --> 00:19:08 the same for the ISS and it's only being
00:19:09 --> 00:19:12 discovered through the people who've
00:19:12 --> 00:19:14 lived and worked there for the last 20
00:19:14 --> 00:19:16 plus years
00:19:16 --> 00:19:19 and you're seeing things that were built
00:19:19 --> 00:19:21 with certain intent not being used for
00:19:21 --> 00:19:24 that purpose at yes that's right yeah
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27 exactly so yeah they might have to um
00:19:27 --> 00:19:29 sort of redo the the blueprints on
00:19:29 --> 00:19:32 future space stations to to deal with
00:19:32 --> 00:19:34 the needs of those who are living and
00:19:34 --> 00:19:37 working there and another example was um
00:19:37 --> 00:19:39 I think it was like a vanity case that
00:19:39 --> 00:19:43 someone had yes that would that spent 60
00:19:43 --> 00:19:45 days stuck to W near the near the
00:19:45 --> 00:19:48 bathroom or whatever toilet near the
00:19:48 --> 00:19:49 toilet that's right they never found out
00:19:49 --> 00:19:54 who owned it no no but it was just there
00:19:54 --> 00:19:56 so that that's the second area that they
00:19:56 --> 00:19:59 analyzed um it was uh a more interesting
00:19:59 --> 00:20:02 area it was uh sort of where the
00:20:02 --> 00:20:04 exercise machines were and the toilet
00:20:04 --> 00:20:07 and it's a passageway uh to the cupular
00:20:07 --> 00:20:10 window which is one of the best places
00:20:10 --> 00:20:12 probably on the space station um so
00:20:12 --> 00:20:14 again there was a wall with no
00:20:14 --> 00:20:16 particular function but it got
00:20:16 --> 00:20:20 everything stored on it uh including
00:20:20 --> 00:20:22 this Anonymous toilet bag that we uh we
00:20:22 --> 00:20:25 just mentioned so really very
00:20:25 --> 00:20:27 interesting to to find that and I think
00:20:27 --> 00:20:29 you're right you know you highlighted
00:20:29 --> 00:20:31 the right thing it's All About Storage
00:20:31 --> 00:20:33 where you can put things um it also
00:20:33 --> 00:20:35 shows how
00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 humans take advantage of the
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 opportunities of the space they have to
00:20:40 --> 00:20:44 deal with whatever needs they have so um
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46 you know and I think it changes from
00:20:46 --> 00:20:50 person to person um and and with 280
00:20:50 --> 00:20:53 plus people going up there and and more
00:20:53 --> 00:20:55 to come because I think they're not
00:20:55 --> 00:20:57 going to bring the um ISS down for
00:20:57 --> 00:20:59 another few years yet
00:20:59 --> 00:21:02 but it's it's a case of all right I'm
00:21:02 --> 00:21:06 new um I need to find space for my stuff
00:21:06 --> 00:21:09 and you you you adapt and that's what's
00:21:09 --> 00:21:12 being revealed in in this archaeological
00:21:12 --> 00:21:14 study which is being done I think you
00:21:14 --> 00:21:16 said it through photographs people on
00:21:16 --> 00:21:18 board taking photographs of these these
00:21:18 --> 00:21:21 particular one meter Square spaces to
00:21:21 --> 00:21:25 see how they evolve and change and um
00:21:25 --> 00:21:28 yeah it is fascinating stuff and and a
00:21:28 --> 00:21:30 one-off opportunity really because when
00:21:30 --> 00:21:32 that Space Station's over and done with
00:21:32 --> 00:21:34 all that information will be gone that's
00:21:34 --> 00:21:37 correct absolutely um um but you know
00:21:37 --> 00:21:39 your your reasonings right on the money
00:21:39 --> 00:21:43 Andrew that um the given things like the
00:21:43 --> 00:21:46 the Gateway uh space station which is
00:21:47 --> 00:21:49 planned to be in orbit around the Moon a
00:21:49 --> 00:21:52 sort of Gateway uh resource for people
00:21:52 --> 00:21:55 to dock with before they take the
00:21:55 --> 00:21:58 Journey Down to the moon's surface um
00:21:58 --> 00:22:00 all of this Archaeology is going to feed
00:22:00 --> 00:22:03 directly into all the sort of amenties
00:22:03 --> 00:22:04 that need to be included in in the
00:22:04 --> 00:22:06 Gateway station and the answer is
00:22:06 --> 00:22:08 probably G to be exactly what you said
00:22:08 --> 00:22:11 storage Storage storage that's what we
00:22:11 --> 00:22:13 need yeah yeah and when you haven't got
00:22:13 --> 00:22:15 much room I suppose you do have to take
00:22:15 --> 00:22:17 advantage of whatever opportunities
00:22:17 --> 00:22:19 available and if someone's built a wall
00:22:19 --> 00:22:21 with stacks of Velcro on it yeah well
00:22:21 --> 00:22:23 that's right it's going to it's going to
00:22:23 --> 00:22:26 be a very tantalizing opportunity to to
00:22:26 --> 00:22:28 put your stuff rather than use it for
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 what it was built for which I think in
00:22:30 --> 00:22:32 this case was supposed to be maintenance
00:22:32 --> 00:22:35 yes that's right yeah very very
00:22:35 --> 00:22:37 interesting indeed and it is a good
00:22:37 --> 00:22:39 article I actually read the whole thing
00:22:39 --> 00:22:42 start to finish and absorbed it all on
00:22:42 --> 00:22:44 the conversation website you'll
00:22:44 --> 00:22:46 listening to Space Nuts Andrew Dunley
00:22:46 --> 00:22:51 with Professor Fred
00:22:51 --> 00:22:56 Watson Space Nuts uh now to uh a genre
00:22:56 --> 00:22:59 that I am much invested in and that's
00:22:59 --> 00:23:02 science fiction uh but uh this is a
00:23:02 --> 00:23:06 story about science fiction and science
00:23:06 --> 00:23:09 fact and how they have uh sort of
00:23:09 --> 00:23:12 collaborated and and dovetailed so
00:23:12 --> 00:23:14 beautifully together this is a really
00:23:14 --> 00:23:17 great story for it it is and it's um I'm
00:23:17 --> 00:23:18 going to let you talk to this one
00:23:18 --> 00:23:20 because it's very much up your you know
00:23:20 --> 00:23:24 up your street but um basically it's a a
00:23:24 --> 00:23:26 researcher is actually the director of
00:23:26 --> 00:23:30 research at Labor physique de Mar down
00:23:30 --> 00:23:33 there in the south of France uh is a
00:23:33 --> 00:23:37 gentleman by the name of Samuel basier
00:23:37 --> 00:23:39 uh so he's done this work
00:23:39 --> 00:23:42 investigating you know the relationship
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44 between science and science fiction
00:23:44 --> 00:23:48 especially um in against a backdrop of
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50 the era that we live in now where you've
00:23:50 --> 00:23:53 got misinformation you got deep fakes
00:23:53 --> 00:23:57 you've got uh you know basically
00:23:57 --> 00:24:00 basically a attempts to uh to distort
00:24:00 --> 00:24:03 science uh all of that sort of thing uh
00:24:03 --> 00:24:05 um you know the good old conspiracy
00:24:05 --> 00:24:07 theories all of that is distorting our
00:24:07 --> 00:24:10 view of of what science is all about um
00:24:10 --> 00:24:12 and so it's an interesting context in
00:24:12 --> 00:24:14 which to put this study of the
00:24:14 --> 00:24:16 relationship between science fiction and
00:24:16 --> 00:24:20 science fact yeah I think there were two
00:24:20 --> 00:24:23 Keystone uh things that came out of it
00:24:24 --> 00:24:25 and that that is that science fiction
00:24:25 --> 00:24:30 has a place uh in that it it can inspire
00:24:30 --> 00:24:34 people to look into careers in science
00:24:34 --> 00:24:36 uh even though science fiction is what
00:24:36 --> 00:24:39 it is it's it's you know the
00:24:39 --> 00:24:41 imaginations of of writers and and
00:24:41 --> 00:24:45 filmmakers for that matter um coming out
00:24:45 --> 00:24:50 in paper or on an ebook or on a TV or a
00:24:50 --> 00:24:53 big screen uh but it it does have a
00:24:53 --> 00:24:56 place in the scientific Community
00:24:56 --> 00:24:59 because it has has been successful in
00:24:59 --> 00:25:02 inspiring people to get into those
00:25:02 --> 00:25:07 fields of um of uh education or those
00:25:07 --> 00:25:09 fields of expertise is what I'm trying
00:25:09 --> 00:25:12 to say the other Keystone to come out of
00:25:12 --> 00:25:15 this is that science fiction can also
00:25:15 --> 00:25:18 educate even though the stories are yeah
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20 coming from some Incredible
00:25:20 --> 00:25:23 Minds they have been built on the back
00:25:23 --> 00:25:27 of real science and so they they educate
00:25:27 --> 00:25:30 Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars series is a
00:25:30 --> 00:25:34 very good highlight in terms of uh of
00:25:34 --> 00:25:36 teaching people about not what not just
00:25:36 --> 00:25:40 what Mars is like but what it could be
00:25:40 --> 00:25:42 if we develop technology to turn it into
00:25:42 --> 00:25:44 a livable planet uh which is what the
00:25:44 --> 00:25:47 Mars series was all about uh the movie
00:25:47 --> 00:25:51 Interstellar is um was created using
00:25:51 --> 00:25:53 real science they used and some of it
00:25:53 --> 00:25:56 was pretty well stretched
00:25:56 --> 00:25:59 yes um and and and the uh the Martian
00:25:59 --> 00:26:02 was a science fiction film but it was so
00:26:02 --> 00:26:04 close to being really
00:26:04 --> 00:26:06 possible uh because of the consultations
00:26:06 --> 00:26:10 they did with scientists and and uh
00:26:10 --> 00:26:13 astronomers um it it it looked feasible
00:26:13 --> 00:26:18 in many respects uh so there's a lot
00:26:18 --> 00:26:21 that works in and around science fiction
00:26:21 --> 00:26:26 and science um coming together and I
00:26:26 --> 00:26:28 think this is a really great story and
00:26:28 --> 00:26:30 when you look at some of the early
00:26:30 --> 00:26:34 science fiction writers they didn't have
00:26:34 --> 00:26:36 the science to back up their
00:26:36 --> 00:26:38 imaginations they had to think outside
00:26:38 --> 00:26:40 the box and even some of the really
00:26:40 --> 00:26:45 early ones that that predated the rocket
00:26:45 --> 00:26:49 era came up with rocket ships yeah as
00:26:49 --> 00:26:52 they are today I mean that's right yeah
00:26:52 --> 00:26:54 they so their brains worked in
00:26:54 --> 00:26:56 incredible ways and there's someone
00:26:56 --> 00:26:58 who's written science fiction I
00:26:58 --> 00:27:02 never yeah I just let my imagination run
00:27:02 --> 00:27:04 wild but I'm I'm not in the caliber of
00:27:04 --> 00:27:07 the um Isaac azimov and Arthur C Clarks
00:27:07 --> 00:27:09 of the of the world who are some of the
00:27:09 --> 00:27:12 greatest of all time and have written
00:27:12 --> 00:27:15 some of the classic Sci-fi stories um
00:27:15 --> 00:27:18 but I've tried to work it into what
00:27:18 --> 00:27:20 could be conceived
00:27:20 --> 00:27:23 as feasible if if it ever came to be
00:27:23 --> 00:27:25 which it probably won't but that's the
00:27:25 --> 00:27:28 nature of science fiction um but some of
00:27:28 --> 00:27:30 the some of the homework that goes into
00:27:30 --> 00:27:33 these stories is based on real science
00:27:33 --> 00:27:36 and some of the people who are working
00:27:36 --> 00:27:38 in science today have been inspired by
00:27:38 --> 00:27:42 stories from the imaginations of great
00:27:42 --> 00:27:44 people and that's what this is this is
00:27:44 --> 00:27:46 all about and I think it's fantastic
00:27:46 --> 00:27:49 stuff I really am um I'm delighted by
00:27:49 --> 00:27:50 this story to be
00:27:50 --> 00:27:53 honest and I mean going back to um that
00:27:53 --> 00:27:56 Old Chestnut the my all-time favorite
00:27:56 --> 00:27:59 science fiction story um
00:27:59 --> 00:28:01 the movie that came out in 1968 2001 of
00:28:01 --> 00:28:04 Space Odyssey yeah I remember after I'd
00:28:04 --> 00:28:06 watched that thinking that all of that
00:28:06 --> 00:28:09 was entirely possible um you know the
00:28:09 --> 00:28:13 the idea of by 2001 we'd be having
00:28:13 --> 00:28:15 regular flights to the Moon uh we'd have
00:28:15 --> 00:28:17 artificial gravity space stations we'd
00:28:17 --> 00:28:20 be able to send a spacecraft out to
00:28:20 --> 00:28:22 Jupiter to investigate things that were
00:28:22 --> 00:28:24 going on um I can't remember which way
00:28:24 --> 00:28:26 around it was it was Saturn one of the
00:28:26 --> 00:28:28 either Saturn and Jupiter I think
00:28:28 --> 00:28:30 there's one in one in the movie and one
00:28:30 --> 00:28:31 in the book and I can't remember which
00:28:31 --> 00:28:33 way around it went but but all of that
00:28:33 --> 00:28:36 seemed absolutely possible back in the
00:28:36 --> 00:28:38 1960s uh and even the you know the space
00:28:39 --> 00:28:42 warp uh the sort of warped space in um
00:28:43 --> 00:28:45 interdimensional uh dive at the end of
00:28:45 --> 00:28:48 it uh likewise seemed like absolute
00:28:48 --> 00:28:50 possibility so it certainly stirred the
00:28:50 --> 00:28:53 bosom of my uh science fiction heart at
00:28:53 --> 00:28:55 that time uh I was a young scientist
00:28:56 --> 00:28:59 just starting out of my career H I
00:28:59 --> 00:29:01 watched the TV series The expanse I've
00:29:01 --> 00:29:05 watched it twice actually uh and it too
00:29:05 --> 00:29:08 uh is sort of looking at Humanity living
00:29:08 --> 00:29:11 across the entire solar system from from
00:29:11 --> 00:29:15 the um from Mars Earth and Mars right
00:29:15 --> 00:29:19 out through uh past the gas giants into
00:29:19 --> 00:29:22 uh deep uh the Deep reaches of the solar
00:29:22 --> 00:29:23 system and and how it sort of
00:29:23 --> 00:29:26 factionalized so you had Earth and Mars
00:29:26 --> 00:29:29 at loggerheads and the people who lived
00:29:29 --> 00:29:31 in the outer belt uh they called them
00:29:31 --> 00:29:34 belters strangely enough uh and and they
00:29:34 --> 00:29:37 all the tensions that existed between
00:29:37 --> 00:29:41 them I see that as feasible yeah um but
00:29:41 --> 00:29:45 within the within the story there were
00:29:45 --> 00:29:48 um technologies that that might exist
00:29:48 --> 00:29:50 today but not to that level for example
00:29:50 --> 00:29:53 they didn't overcome the problem of zero
00:29:53 --> 00:29:55 gravity in space
00:29:55 --> 00:29:58 travel um so there wasn't artificial
00:29:58 --> 00:30:00 gravity and we still don't have that
00:30:00 --> 00:30:03 today but they overcame movement around
00:30:03 --> 00:30:07 spaceships by having magnetic boots yes
00:30:07 --> 00:30:10 which you know seems so very logical and
00:30:10 --> 00:30:11 you could turn them on and off as you
00:30:11 --> 00:30:13 needed to electromagnets in the B
00:30:13 --> 00:30:15 bottoms of the shoes so you walked
00:30:15 --> 00:30:16 around on on metal
00:30:16 --> 00:30:20 decks um and and that's how they solved
00:30:20 --> 00:30:21 the problem of no gravity in space it
00:30:22 --> 00:30:24 was it it was a remarkable series and
00:30:24 --> 00:30:26 very very cleverly done and it sort of
00:30:26 --> 00:30:28 showed Human Nature to a certain degree
00:30:28 --> 00:30:30 because we all hated each other and
00:30:30 --> 00:30:32 wanted to kill each other because we had
00:30:32 --> 00:30:34 different beliefs and different
00:30:34 --> 00:30:37 different needs and the people in the
00:30:37 --> 00:30:39 outter reaches the belters felt that
00:30:39 --> 00:30:41 they were they were slaves to Earth and
00:30:41 --> 00:30:43 Mars and they hated us all and it was
00:30:43 --> 00:30:45 really cleverly done but that's the
00:30:45 --> 00:30:48 point we're making with this story is
00:30:48 --> 00:30:51 that these these uh science fiction
00:30:51 --> 00:30:55 stories come so very close to being real
00:30:55 --> 00:30:58 to the point where they can inspire
00:30:58 --> 00:31:01 future scientists and they can Inspire
00:31:01 --> 00:31:05 future invention um who knows what the
00:31:05 --> 00:31:07 next big idea will be that will become a
00:31:07 --> 00:31:09 reality as a result of Science Fiction
00:31:09 --> 00:31:12 and and who knows who the next big
00:31:12 --> 00:31:14 scientist will be because they are fans
00:31:14 --> 00:31:16 of Science Fiction it's it is a really
00:31:16 --> 00:31:20 great uh and refreshing story it's I'm
00:31:20 --> 00:31:22 glad somebody did some work on on on
00:31:22 --> 00:31:26 looking at that link it's
00:31:26 --> 00:31:30 brilliant have we covered it enough very
00:31:30 --> 00:31:32 excited I got very excited
00:31:32 --> 00:31:34 over now it's a great story and if you
00:31:34 --> 00:31:36 would like to read up on that one I
00:31:36 --> 00:31:38 think that's uh in Universe today as
00:31:39 --> 00:31:42 well univers today.com um yeah the new
00:31:42 --> 00:31:43 study Examining The Links between
00:31:43 --> 00:31:46 science fiction and uh and astronomy so
00:31:46 --> 00:31:49 um check it out it is a great read uh
00:31:49 --> 00:31:51 and don't forget to check out our
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53 website too if you've um got a few
00:31:53 --> 00:31:56 moments uh SPAC nuts podcast.com SPAC
00:31:56 --> 00:31:59 nuts.i if you follow us on social media
00:31:59 --> 00:32:01 don't forget to like us or follow us or
00:32:01 --> 00:32:03 add us to your favorites list especially
00:32:03 --> 00:32:06 if you're on YouTube uh please hit the
00:32:06 --> 00:32:09 Subscribe button Fred we are done and
00:32:09 --> 00:32:12 dusted for another day thank you sir
00:32:12 --> 00:32:14 it's a pleasure what great set of
00:32:14 --> 00:32:15 stories we've had today it's all good
00:32:15 --> 00:32:18 fun yeah they were fun y so were a lot
00:32:18 --> 00:32:20 of fun let's do it again sometime all
00:32:20 --> 00:32:22 right let's we'll talk to you soon
00:32:22 --> 00:32:26 thanks FR yeah no ways and thanks to
00:32:26 --> 00:32:28 here in the studio uh pushing all the
00:32:28 --> 00:32:29 buttons pulling all the levers and
00:32:29 --> 00:32:31 flushing all the toilets uh thank you
00:32:31 --> 00:32:34 Hugh and from me Andrew Dunley thanks
00:32:34 --> 00:32:35 for your company looking forward to
00:32:35 --> 00:32:37 joining you again on the very next
00:32:37 --> 00:32:41 episode of Space Nuts bye-bye Space Nuts
00:32:41 --> 00:32:44 you'll be listening to the Space Nuts
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00:32:55 --> 00:32:58 another quality podcast production from
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