Source:
https://www.spreaker.com/episode/447-wandering-planets-dark-matter-controversy-and-the-fermi-paradox-debate--61195176
Join Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson in this captivating episode of Space Nuts, where they explore the latest discoveries and theories in astronomy and space science.
Episode Highlights:
- Rogue Planets Discovered: The James Webb SpaceTime Telescope has identified six new rogue, or orphan, planets. Learn about these mysterious celestial bodies that wander the galaxy without a star to orbit.
- - Dark Matter Doubts: A new study raises questions about the existence of dark matter. Discover the findings from the Lux Zeppelin detector and what they mean for our understanding of the universe.
- - The Fermi Paradox Revisited: Explore new ideas around the Fermi Paradox and the existence of extraterrestrial life. Could alien life be so different from us that we simply can't detect it?
- For more Space Nuts, including our continually updating newsfeed, visit our website at https://www.spacenutspodcast.com.
- For more Space and Astronomy News Podcasts, visit our HQ at https://www.bitesz.com
- Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts/support.
- Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 hello thanks for joining us this is
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 Space Nuts where we talk astronomy space
00:00:05 --> 00:00:06 science and all the problems of the
00:00:06 --> 00:00:09 world that we cannot solve and a few
00:00:09 --> 00:00:12 other things as well um but uh coming up
00:00:12 --> 00:00:15 on this episode in fact uh we are going
00:00:15 --> 00:00:17 to uh look at some new information
00:00:17 --> 00:00:20 that's come from yes you're right the
00:00:20 --> 00:00:23 James web Space Telescope uh it has
00:00:23 --> 00:00:26 found six new rogue planets Rogue or
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28 orphan planets they're out there
00:00:28 --> 00:00:30 floating around they don't have a star
00:00:30 --> 00:00:33 they got no Mom no dad they're just
00:00:33 --> 00:00:35 hanging around on street corners smoking
00:00:35 --> 00:00:36 joints but uh we're going to find out
00:00:36 --> 00:00:39 more about these ones uh we're also
00:00:39 --> 00:00:41 looking at doubts that have been raised
00:00:41 --> 00:00:43 about the existence of Dark Matter
00:00:43 --> 00:00:47 itself well if it's not dark matter what
00:00:47 --> 00:00:50 is it and if it's dark matter might I
00:00:50 --> 00:00:53 don't know um there's been a study done
00:00:53 --> 00:00:56 and they've gone nothing to see here and
00:00:56 --> 00:00:58 we're going to look at some new ideas
00:00:58 --> 00:01:01 around the fmy parad and life in the
00:01:01 --> 00:01:03 universe it's all coming up on this
00:01:03 --> 00:01:06 edition of Space Nuts 15 seconds
00:01:06 --> 00:01:11 guidance is internal 10 9 ignition
00:01:11 --> 00:01:17 sequence start Space Nuts 5 4 3
00:01:17 --> 00:01:22 2 space NS asut report feels good and
00:01:22 --> 00:01:25 unraveling the rment that is astronomy
00:01:25 --> 00:01:27 and space science is Professor Fred
00:01:27 --> 00:01:30 Watson hello Fred hello Andrew good to
00:01:30 --> 00:01:33 see you good to see you to today you're
00:01:33 --> 00:01:37 looking rather Dapper oh Dapper oh
00:01:37 --> 00:01:40 pinstrip suit you yeah well yes yes it's
00:01:40 --> 00:01:42 the shirt you see because I spent the
00:01:42 --> 00:01:44 morning in Far More official meetings
00:01:45 --> 00:01:47 than we're in now I spent the morning on
00:01:47 --> 00:01:50 the golf course well there you go yes
00:01:50 --> 00:01:51 that shows it does show yeah well you
00:01:51 --> 00:01:53 can see I'm a bit red in the face got
00:01:53 --> 00:01:54 some
00:01:54 --> 00:01:56 sun yes we we had a beautiful day today
00:01:56 --> 00:02:00 it's spring has just gone like it's like
00:02:00 --> 00:02:04 on us like a a giant ball and it just
00:02:04 --> 00:02:05 all the cold weather just suddenly
00:02:05 --> 00:02:08 vanished yes very very enjoyable I spoke
00:02:08 --> 00:02:10 I probably spoken too soon next week
00:02:10 --> 00:02:13 we'll have snow
00:02:13 --> 00:02:15 except wait it is coming back the cold
00:02:15 --> 00:02:16 weather's coming back of course it is
00:02:16 --> 00:02:19 we've we've had it we've got 29 degrees
00:02:19 --> 00:02:21 here today yeah we've we've been up in
00:02:21 --> 00:02:23 the ridiculous for winter yeah we're
00:02:23 --> 00:02:24 expecting I think we were supposed to
00:02:24 --> 00:02:29 get 25 today and 28 on Friday yes in
00:02:29 --> 00:02:30 it's insane and yeah we're still
00:02:30 --> 00:02:32 technically in
00:02:32 --> 00:02:34 Winter yeah I wonder what would wonder
00:02:34 --> 00:02:35 what's caused all that let's not go
00:02:35 --> 00:02:37 there
00:02:37 --> 00:02:40 um but we have got a lot to talk about
00:02:40 --> 00:02:42 Fred and the first thing is a story
00:02:42 --> 00:02:45 that's gained a bit of traction in uh
00:02:45 --> 00:02:48 several on several websites and that is
00:02:48 --> 00:02:51 a new thing from the James web Space
00:02:51 --> 00:02:55 Telescope six wandering rogue planets is
00:02:55 --> 00:02:57 one headline another one says James web
00:02:57 --> 00:03:01 spots new rogue worlds or orphan planets
00:03:01 --> 00:03:03 um I guess we could uh start off by
00:03:03 --> 00:03:06 explaining exactly what a rogue planet
00:03:06 --> 00:03:07 is I think most people have got it in
00:03:07 --> 00:03:09 their minds well and truly but a few
00:03:10 --> 00:03:12 might be going what what on Earth is
00:03:12 --> 00:03:15 that it's um yes it's some uh there's
00:03:15 --> 00:03:17 all sorts of reasons for them but they
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19 are out
00:03:19 --> 00:03:23 there uh that's correct uh and I mean I
00:03:23 --> 00:03:26 always think rogue planets is a it's not
00:03:26 --> 00:03:28 a good name for these things Mak them
00:03:28 --> 00:03:30 sound naughty yes that's it gives them a
00:03:30 --> 00:03:32 bad look whereas it you know if you call
00:03:32 --> 00:03:35 them orphan planets then your sympathies
00:03:35 --> 00:03:39 are much more with them well just sounds
00:03:39 --> 00:03:43 sad sad planets yeah uh the there's um
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45 an acronym that I remember writing about
00:03:45 --> 00:03:47 a long time ago they were called e
00:03:47 --> 00:03:52 eops uh e flops was free floating low
00:03:52 --> 00:03:55 something but I can't remember can't
00:03:55 --> 00:03:56 remember what it was I'd have to look
00:03:56 --> 00:03:58 look it up and I haven't got time to do
00:03:58 --> 00:04:01 that now but I thought yeah e flops kind
00:04:01 --> 00:04:05 of I think I think it it it gave them a
00:04:05 --> 00:04:08 you know sort of tick of failure a cross
00:04:08 --> 00:04:09 of failure really didn't it that they
00:04:09 --> 00:04:11 just haven't made it they're flops
00:04:11 --> 00:04:13 really they're not they haven't made it
00:04:13 --> 00:04:18 and and in a way um that is what uh this
00:04:18 --> 00:04:21 story is about because uh whilst we've
00:04:21 --> 00:04:24 known about rogue planets or dwarf or
00:04:24 --> 00:04:27 orphan planets for several decades now
00:04:27 --> 00:04:29 um some of the first were discovered
00:04:30 --> 00:04:31 using the Anglo Australian telescope if
00:04:31 --> 00:04:34 I remember rightly here in Australia uh
00:04:34 --> 00:04:36 in the Orion Nebula uh so the Orion
00:04:36 --> 00:04:38 Nebula is a place it's a region of star
00:04:38 --> 00:04:41 formation it's a place uh which became
00:04:41 --> 00:04:43 sort of reasonably well known for its
00:04:43 --> 00:04:46 orphan planets uh but the question about
00:04:46 --> 00:04:49 them is where they came from and and
00:04:49 --> 00:04:52 there are two basically two
00:04:52 --> 00:04:56 possibilities one is that they formed in
00:04:56 --> 00:04:59 the normal way that planets form U from
00:04:59 --> 00:05:01 the pro to a planetary disc around a
00:05:01 --> 00:05:04 young star uh and so you know rogue
00:05:04 --> 00:05:06 planets sorry orphan planets would have
00:05:06 --> 00:05:09 formed along with their siblings um in
00:05:09 --> 00:05:11 that protoplanetary disc and then
00:05:11 --> 00:05:13 something happened that basically kicked
00:05:13 --> 00:05:16 them out sent them wandering off into
00:05:16 --> 00:05:19 into Stellar space with no sun to orbit
00:05:19 --> 00:05:21 around maybe we should call them
00:05:21 --> 00:05:23 banished planets ban planets that were C
00:05:23 --> 00:05:25 looking in the school toilets that's
00:05:25 --> 00:05:26 what it
00:05:26 --> 00:05:30 was it yeah well see I suppose that's
00:05:30 --> 00:05:32 the equivalent of a gravitational
00:05:32 --> 00:05:34 interaction with another planetary body
00:05:34 --> 00:05:36 whichs the same thing really you still
00:05:36 --> 00:05:39 get you still get kicked out uh so did
00:05:39 --> 00:05:41 they form in the way that all all
00:05:42 --> 00:05:43 planets form the normal planetary
00:05:43 --> 00:05:46 formation and then get get kicked out by
00:05:46 --> 00:05:49 some gravitational interaction or did
00:05:49 --> 00:05:55 they form as the Bottom Rung if I can
00:05:55 --> 00:05:57 put it that way of the star formation
00:05:57 --> 00:06:02 process so when stars form in clouds of
00:06:02 --> 00:06:03 gas and dust which is where we know they
00:06:03 --> 00:06:06 are formed um and you know they they're
00:06:06 --> 00:06:08 formed by this Blobs of this gas and
00:06:08 --> 00:06:10 dust collapsing under its own gravity
00:06:10 --> 00:06:13 and eventually uh that collapse produces
00:06:13 --> 00:06:15 a high enough temperature because of
00:06:15 --> 00:06:17 compression uh that you will get nuclear
00:06:17 --> 00:06:21 reactions taking place now um the clouds
00:06:21 --> 00:06:24 of gas and dust where we know stars form
00:06:24 --> 00:06:27 um are multifaceted and there is a
00:06:27 --> 00:06:31 suspicion that perhaps some of them uh
00:06:31 --> 00:06:33 you know you get little Blobs of of gas
00:06:33 --> 00:06:36 and dust which collapses as though it
00:06:36 --> 00:06:40 was going to form a stun a a sun not a
00:06:40 --> 00:06:44 stun a star or a sun um but it doesn't
00:06:44 --> 00:06:46 have enough mass in there so the
00:06:46 --> 00:06:48 compression never reaches the
00:06:48 --> 00:06:51 temperatures that you need to click uh
00:06:51 --> 00:06:54 nuclear reactions into being and so
00:06:54 --> 00:06:56 that's what you might call the top down
00:06:56 --> 00:06:59 model where you you've you've got uh you
00:06:59 --> 00:07:01 start off forming a star but there's not
00:07:02 --> 00:07:03 enough material to form that star and
00:07:03 --> 00:07:05 what you get is something with the mass
00:07:06 --> 00:07:11 of a planet uh and that is you know a
00:07:11 --> 00:07:13 perfectly reasonable explanation for why
00:07:13 --> 00:07:16 these orphan planets or rogue planets
00:07:16 --> 00:07:19 exist and and in a way that gets rid of
00:07:19 --> 00:07:21 the orphan bit because they've never had
00:07:21 --> 00:07:25 a parent star uh there've always been
00:07:25 --> 00:07:27 objects that have formed directly from
00:07:27 --> 00:07:30 the raw material of stars that's gas and
00:07:30 --> 00:07:34 dust yeah so um this new observation has
00:07:34 --> 00:07:37 shed some light on that uh and it comes
00:07:37 --> 00:07:39 as you said from the James web Space
00:07:39 --> 00:07:43 Telescope uh about half a dozen of these
00:07:43 --> 00:07:46 um orphan planets rogue planets flops
00:07:46 --> 00:07:48 whatever you want to call them have been
00:07:48 --> 00:07:51 found without a star to orbit uh and
00:07:51 --> 00:07:54 they are in the persus molecular cloud
00:07:54 --> 00:07:58 it's a region uh of of molecules as the
00:07:58 --> 00:08:00 as the name implies which is is
00:08:00 --> 00:08:03 basically gas called gas and dust uh and
00:08:03 --> 00:08:05 it's in the constellation of Perseus the
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 Northern Hemisphere constellation so the
00:08:09 --> 00:08:11 planets um which have been
00:08:11 --> 00:08:15 found have ranged between five and 10
00:08:15 --> 00:08:19 times the mass of Jupiter and this is a
00:08:19 --> 00:08:23 sort of critical measurement um because
00:08:23 --> 00:08:25 there is
00:08:25 --> 00:08:27 thinking that
00:08:28 --> 00:08:30 suggests uh
00:08:30 --> 00:08:33 anything less than that than five times
00:08:33 --> 00:08:36 the mass of Jupiter would have to have
00:08:36 --> 00:08:40 been formed in a bigger planetary system
00:08:40 --> 00:08:43 and then kicked out ah so there's a sort
00:08:43 --> 00:08:47 of lower limit there on the formation of
00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 these um and so what you're saying is
00:08:51 --> 00:08:54 that you know if if if there were if you
00:08:54 --> 00:08:55 were seeing them less than five times
00:08:55 --> 00:08:57 the mass of Jupiter then you could point
00:08:57 --> 00:09:00 to them having been formed
00:09:00 --> 00:09:02 elsewhere in a in a solar system and
00:09:02 --> 00:09:05 then kicked out but they were the they
00:09:05 --> 00:09:07 were the rants of the litter yeah in
00:09:07 --> 00:09:10 that sense that's right uh although five
00:09:10 --> 00:09:12 times the mass of Jupiter is pretty big
00:09:12 --> 00:09:14 it is I wouldn't call it that to its
00:09:14 --> 00:09:17 face no no you you certainly wouldn't
00:09:17 --> 00:09:18 want to do that he could get into all
00:09:18 --> 00:09:21 kinds of trouble uh but the um but so
00:09:21 --> 00:09:24 this observation tends to favor the idea
00:09:24 --> 00:09:27 that these things have formed as though
00:09:27 --> 00:09:30 there were going to be Stars but haven't
00:09:30 --> 00:09:33 got that far yeah uh there is another
00:09:33 --> 00:09:35 limit um
00:09:35 --> 00:09:37 that
00:09:37 --> 00:09:40 that that um applies to these objects
00:09:40 --> 00:09:43 because anything that's more than 13
00:09:43 --> 00:09:45 times the mass of Jupiter becomes
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 something else uh that is what we call a
00:09:48 --> 00:09:50 brown dwarf star uh because that is the
00:09:51 --> 00:09:54 mass in which uh what you might call
00:09:54 --> 00:09:58 lowlevel nuclear processes kick in um
00:09:58 --> 00:10:02 they it's um basically D dyum burning
00:10:02 --> 00:10:05 they call it Fusion of dyum uh so
00:10:05 --> 00:10:07 anything above 30 times the mass of
00:10:07 --> 00:10:10 Jupiter will be a brown dwarf star
00:10:10 --> 00:10:11 speaking speaking of witch Fred for
00:10:11 --> 00:10:13 those who are watching us I've got a
00:10:13 --> 00:10:17 brown dwarf oh hang on turn turn my oh
00:10:17 --> 00:10:19 oh so you do
00:10:19 --> 00:10:22 yes it's a Terracotta Warrior from China
00:10:22 --> 00:10:25 yes that's right uh there you go but
00:10:25 --> 00:10:27 it's only fits in the palm of my hand
00:10:27 --> 00:10:30 brown dwarf is it less than it must be
00:10:30 --> 00:10:31 more than 30 times the mass of Jupiter
00:10:31 --> 00:10:32 then if
00:10:32 --> 00:10:35 it's that's think
00:10:35 --> 00:10:38 so but just watch out for that dyum
00:10:38 --> 00:10:41 Fusion in its interior uh hope there's
00:10:41 --> 00:10:43 none in
00:10:43 --> 00:10:45 there um at the risk of wondering if you
00:10:46 --> 00:10:47 and I are talking AC cross purposes here
00:10:47 --> 00:10:52 I'll carry on yes uh and the uh the so
00:10:52 --> 00:10:54 yeah so 30 more than 303 times the mass
00:10:54 --> 00:10:55 of Jupiter you've got a brown dwarf more
00:10:55 --> 00:10:57 than 93 times the mass of Jupiter you've
00:10:57 --> 00:11:00 got a star yeah then you you get the
00:11:00 --> 00:11:03 you've got enough uh mass to to create
00:11:03 --> 00:11:06 hydrogen fusion fusion of hel hydrogen
00:11:06 --> 00:11:08 into helium then the normal nuclear
00:11:08 --> 00:11:12 process so um uh the it's it's an
00:11:12 --> 00:11:13 interesting set of observations that
00:11:13 --> 00:11:16 we've got that might uh draw a line
00:11:16 --> 00:11:19 under the question as to whether rogue
00:11:19 --> 00:11:22 planets orphan planets whether they form
00:11:22 --> 00:11:25 alone uh in a top- down process in other
00:11:25 --> 00:11:28 words uh collapsing star Cloud clouds of
00:11:28 --> 00:11:30 raw material of stars or whether they're
00:11:30 --> 00:11:31 kicked out of their solar systems and it
00:11:31 --> 00:11:33 looks as though it is the former rather
00:11:33 --> 00:11:35 than the latter yeah so they they're
00:11:35 --> 00:11:37 independently created and then they just
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39 float off into the into The
00:11:39 --> 00:11:43 Ether uh and and I guess what will
00:11:43 --> 00:11:44 likely happen to them is they'll just
00:11:44 --> 00:11:48 keep floating around out there doing not
00:11:48 --> 00:11:52 much uh yes that's right uh they'll
00:11:52 --> 00:11:54 indeed they will they'll you know they
00:11:54 --> 00:11:58 will evolve uh in a slow sort of way um
00:11:58 --> 00:12:01 they they're almost certainly gas giants
00:12:01 --> 00:12:05 um I there there is just one
00:12:05 --> 00:12:10 other sneaky um input into this debate
00:12:10 --> 00:12:12 that came from these new observations
00:12:12 --> 00:12:14 and that is that one of these rogue
00:12:14 --> 00:12:18 planets uh looks as though it has its
00:12:18 --> 00:12:20 own protoplanetary disc in other words a
00:12:20 --> 00:12:23 miniature version of what the solar
00:12:23 --> 00:12:26 system would have looked like in its uh
00:12:26 --> 00:12:29 early history uh where the planets
00:12:29 --> 00:12:31 formed or what a solar system looks like
00:12:31 --> 00:12:33 it looks as though there's a sort of
00:12:33 --> 00:12:35 tiny replica of a solar system being
00:12:35 --> 00:12:38 formed around one of these rogue planets
00:12:38 --> 00:12:40 which again points to the top down
00:12:40 --> 00:12:42 formation mechanism in other words
00:12:42 --> 00:12:45 they're formed by the collapse of uh
00:12:45 --> 00:12:47 small clouds of gas in a in a in a
00:12:47 --> 00:12:51 molecular cloud that's fascinating
00:12:52 --> 00:12:55 um I I also think uh during this study
00:12:55 --> 00:12:57 they found a brown dwarf that had its
00:12:57 --> 00:12:59 own Planet so
00:12:59 --> 00:13:01 that yes what would you call that that's
00:13:01 --> 00:13:04 not a they're not rogue planets it's a
00:13:04 --> 00:13:07 no that no that's it might you might
00:13:07 --> 00:13:09 almost call it a binary system because
00:13:09 --> 00:13:13 the the brown dwarf is is low mass the
00:13:13 --> 00:13:15 planet's probably quite high mass the
00:13:15 --> 00:13:16 difference between one and the other is
00:13:16 --> 00:13:19 one's burning dyum and the other isn't
00:13:19 --> 00:13:22 yeah wow there's so much you know this
00:13:22 --> 00:13:24 James web t space telescope is starting
00:13:24 --> 00:13:28 to reveal to us and uh even though it's
00:13:28 --> 00:13:29 uh which I've mentioned before before
00:13:29 --> 00:13:31 opening up so many more questions it's
00:13:32 --> 00:13:35 also managing to answer some questions
00:13:35 --> 00:13:39 uh and yeah we're only in the early
00:13:39 --> 00:13:42 phases if it's if role it's mission who
00:13:42 --> 00:13:44 knows what else we'll discover uh but if
00:13:45 --> 00:13:46 you're interested in reading that story
00:13:46 --> 00:13:49 about rogue planets uh just do a search
00:13:49 --> 00:13:51 for it there are so many platforms um
00:13:51 --> 00:13:53 space.com has done something on it
00:13:53 --> 00:13:56 Cosmos magazine or if you want to um put
00:13:56 --> 00:13:58 yourself to sleep and read the whole
00:13:58 --> 00:14:00 thing
00:14:00 --> 00:14:03 it's uh it's in the astronomical Journal
00:14:03 --> 00:14:05 that's where they published the official
00:14:05 --> 00:14:08 paper did yes this is Space Nuts Andrew
00:14:08 --> 00:14:15 Dunley here with Professor Fred
00:14:15 --> 00:14:18 Watson Space Nuts for doubts have been
00:14:18 --> 00:14:20 raised about the existence of dark
00:14:20 --> 00:14:22 matter we get a lot of questions
00:14:22 --> 00:14:25 surprisingly about Dark Matter uh people
00:14:25 --> 00:14:27 wanting to know what it is how we've
00:14:27 --> 00:14:30 managed to find it uh you know we
00:14:30 --> 00:14:32 haven't actually identified it we just
00:14:32 --> 00:14:35 sort of know it's there because it has
00:14:35 --> 00:14:38 to be otherwise things wouldn't add up
00:14:38 --> 00:14:42 but now a new study uh has been
00:14:42 --> 00:14:43 published that's basically said hey
00:14:43 --> 00:14:47 we've looked for this stuff and no can't
00:14:47 --> 00:14:50 find it can't
00:14:50 --> 00:14:52 exist yeah nobody's saying it can't
00:14:52 --> 00:14:54 exist I know I just threw that in there
00:14:54 --> 00:14:58 for topical humor well yes yeah yes
00:14:58 --> 00:15:01 don't miss quote anybody
00:15:01 --> 00:15:05 though so um yes so it's a some results
00:15:05 --> 00:15:09 from uh a dark matter particle detector
00:15:09 --> 00:15:12 which is looking specifically for one
00:15:12 --> 00:15:15 candidate particle for the Dark Matter
00:15:15 --> 00:15:19 problem so quick recap uh without there
00:15:19 --> 00:15:21 being something called Dark Matter
00:15:21 --> 00:15:23 galaxies wouldn't hold together they'd
00:15:23 --> 00:15:25 rotate too fast uh to hold themselves
00:15:25 --> 00:15:28 together and that's you know that's one
00:15:28 --> 00:15:30 of the main reasons why we think dark
00:15:30 --> 00:15:32 matter is present plus the fact that we
00:15:32 --> 00:15:33 see evidence for it with gravitational
00:15:34 --> 00:15:36 lensing and things of that sort but it's
00:15:36 --> 00:15:38 not detectable by normal means because
00:15:38 --> 00:15:40 it doesn't seem to uh interact with
00:15:40 --> 00:15:43 normal particles in any way other than
00:15:43 --> 00:15:46 by gravity it doesn't interact you know
00:15:46 --> 00:15:48 from a a nuclear uh standpoint it
00:15:48 --> 00:15:52 doesn't interact from uh any kind of
00:15:52 --> 00:15:53 electromagnetic interaction in other
00:15:53 --> 00:15:55 words interaction with photons none of
00:15:55 --> 00:15:59 that doesn't want to know uh but um it
00:15:59 --> 00:16:01 seems to exist now multiple candidates
00:16:01 --> 00:16:03 have been proposed for what that
00:16:03 --> 00:16:05 particle might be and and indeed some
00:16:05 --> 00:16:07 people think there might be a whole zoo
00:16:07 --> 00:16:09 of different Dark Matter particles like
00:16:09 --> 00:16:11 there are with normal matter particles
00:16:11 --> 00:16:14 when you think of the 16
00:16:14 --> 00:16:17 fundamental particles 17 I think if you
00:16:17 --> 00:16:20 throw in the hgs BOS on uh in the in the
00:16:20 --> 00:16:22 uh in what we call the standard model of
00:16:22 --> 00:16:25 particle physics um so one of the
00:16:25 --> 00:16:27 proposals has been something called a
00:16:27 --> 00:16:29 wimp uh and the wimp is the weekly
00:16:29 --> 00:16:33 interacting massive particle um and a
00:16:33 --> 00:16:36 wimp has particular characteristics uh
00:16:36 --> 00:16:41 sort of particular expected Mass uh in
00:16:41 --> 00:16:44 in in order to provide the uh the kind
00:16:44 --> 00:16:46 of gravitational pull that we think dark
00:16:46 --> 00:16:49 matter has and so this uh particular
00:16:49 --> 00:16:52 experiment was tuned to look for wimps
00:16:52 --> 00:16:55 specifically to look for wimps and it's
00:16:55 --> 00:16:56 a
00:16:56 --> 00:17:00 detector uh that is called Lux Zeppelin
00:17:00 --> 00:17:02 uh and I think that's an
00:17:02 --> 00:17:05 acronym uh but it's usually just uh
00:17:05 --> 00:17:10 contracted to LZ uh lox Zeppelin or LZ
00:17:10 --> 00:17:12 if you're on this side of the Pacific uh
00:17:12 --> 00:17:15 so and um the number of scientists have
00:17:15 --> 00:17:17 been involved with this us scientists it
00:17:17 --> 00:17:19 is
00:17:19 --> 00:17:24 basically a US facility um it's uh
00:17:24 --> 00:17:26 located a m sorry I was going to say a
00:17:26 --> 00:17:28 mile and a half but it's actually more
00:17:28 --> 00:17:31 like a mile a kilometer and a half
00:17:31 --> 00:17:33 underground uh at something called the
00:17:33 --> 00:17:36 Sanford underground research facility
00:17:36 --> 00:17:39 and it basically consists of an enormous
00:17:39 --> 00:17:43 tank of Zenon uh and a lot of very
00:17:43 --> 00:17:46 sensitive light detectors um for to
00:17:46 --> 00:17:49 multiplier tubes as they're called uh to
00:17:49 --> 00:17:53 detect any Collision that might be
00:17:53 --> 00:17:56 produced between a wimp and a normal
00:17:56 --> 00:17:57 particle that would produce
00:17:58 --> 00:18:00 electromagnetic energy in other words
00:18:00 --> 00:18:05 light um and so the you know people
00:18:05 --> 00:18:06 might be thinking w a minute Fred just
00:18:06 --> 00:18:08 said that they don't it doesn't interact
00:18:08 --> 00:18:11 with normal particles and now he's
00:18:11 --> 00:18:13 saying that it does uh and the the
00:18:13 --> 00:18:15 bottom line there is that um we think it
00:18:15 --> 00:18:19 might do but very very rarely in other
00:18:19 --> 00:18:22 words there might be very sparse numbers
00:18:22 --> 00:18:24 of uh interactions between normal
00:18:24 --> 00:18:28 particles and the fabled Dark Matter
00:18:28 --> 00:18:30 particles and what what that that then
00:18:30 --> 00:18:32 leads you to be able to predict okay if
00:18:32 --> 00:18:35 You' got an interaction between say a
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38 proton and a and a wimp what will you
00:18:38 --> 00:18:41 get and the theoretical astronomer sorry
00:18:41 --> 00:18:43 the theoretical nuclear physicists who
00:18:44 --> 00:18:46 um think about this stuff can predict
00:18:46 --> 00:18:48 what kind of gamma ray Spectrum or light
00:18:48 --> 00:18:51 spectrum you might get from uh such an
00:18:51 --> 00:18:53 interaction and that's what these
00:18:53 --> 00:18:56 detectors are looking for uh those
00:18:56 --> 00:18:58 characteristic signatures that you might
00:18:58 --> 00:19:01 get from a hypothesized wimp
00:19:01 --> 00:19:04 hitting a real particle something that
00:19:04 --> 00:19:06 we know is not just hypothetical yeah
00:19:06 --> 00:19:09 and um well they have run this
00:19:09 --> 00:19:12 experiment now for I think 280 days
00:19:13 --> 00:19:16 altogether Y and not found anything uh
00:19:16 --> 00:19:21 and so um that means that they can
00:19:21 --> 00:19:24 say uh that
00:19:24 --> 00:19:29 uh these wimps don't have a mass bigger
00:19:29 --> 00:19:32 than 9 Giga electron volts so a mass
00:19:32 --> 00:19:33 when you're talking about subatomic
00:19:33 --> 00:19:36 particles is measured in electron volts
00:19:36 --> 00:19:39 uh 9 Giga electron volt is actually
00:19:39 --> 00:19:43 quite High um and uh the for example the
00:19:43 --> 00:19:46 particles that you might detect from the
00:19:46 --> 00:19:49 uh the large hyron collider are in the
00:19:49 --> 00:19:51 um basically they're in the Terra
00:19:51 --> 00:19:54 electron Vault uh level so they would
00:19:54 --> 00:19:56 detect more than this um but this
00:19:56 --> 00:19:58 particular experiment is saying not
00:19:58 --> 00:20:01 bigger than 9 Giga electron
00:20:01 --> 00:20:05 volts is a is a wimp they don't exist uh
00:20:05 --> 00:20:08 if their mass is bigger than that
00:20:08 --> 00:20:12 however yeah I knew there'd be a but
00:20:12 --> 00:20:15 yeah because a different um detector
00:20:15 --> 00:20:16 might be able to detect more massive
00:20:17 --> 00:20:20 particles but we hav got yet however
00:20:20 --> 00:20:23 however again one is coming uh because
00:20:23 --> 00:20:25 the university uh actually it's a I
00:20:25 --> 00:20:27 think it's a Consortium of universities
00:20:27 --> 00:20:30 in Australia are putting together a
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33 detector known as saber a nice name sa
00:20:33 --> 00:20:37 re and it's down inside another mine uh
00:20:37 --> 00:20:39 this time in stole in Victoria wellknown
00:20:39 --> 00:20:42 town in Victoria uh in the southern part
00:20:42 --> 00:20:45 of Australia uh and that will come on
00:20:45 --> 00:20:48 stream next year the saber detector will
00:20:48 --> 00:20:50 come on on next stream and it sorry next
00:20:50 --> 00:20:52 year it'll come on stream next year and
00:20:52 --> 00:20:57 it has a different um category of
00:20:57 --> 00:21:00 detection for dark matter uh it's
00:21:00 --> 00:21:02 looking for something different rather
00:21:02 --> 00:21:06 than just uh collisions uh it's uh still
00:21:06 --> 00:21:09 got a Target not liquid Zenon like the
00:21:09 --> 00:21:12 Lo Zeppelin has it's a Target that is a
00:21:12 --> 00:21:14 mixture of sodium and iodine uh so
00:21:14 --> 00:21:17 different chemicals that might react to
00:21:17 --> 00:21:20 um some sort of particle interaction
00:21:20 --> 00:21:22 that they think they may be able to
00:21:22 --> 00:21:26 detect I think the the sto um detector
00:21:26 --> 00:21:28 saber detector scientists are a bit more
00:21:28 --> 00:21:29 optimistic
00:21:29 --> 00:21:30 that they might find something with
00:21:30 --> 00:21:31 their new detector when it comes on
00:21:31 --> 00:21:34 stream next year so the bottom line is
00:21:34 --> 00:21:38 they've they've run this 280 day study
00:21:38 --> 00:21:40 and basically said look we can't find
00:21:40 --> 00:21:42 anything that you could identify as a
00:21:42 --> 00:21:46 dark matter particle uh and it falls
00:21:47 --> 00:21:48 within the search area of these
00:21:49 --> 00:21:50 parameters but we can't look any bigger
00:21:50 --> 00:21:53 than that so we can't find them they
00:21:53 --> 00:21:56 don't exist in these in in this spectrum
00:21:56 --> 00:21:59 but there could be
00:21:59 --> 00:22:01 particles that are larger than that that
00:22:01 --> 00:22:03 we can't find and we haven't got a
00:22:03 --> 00:22:04 machine that can do it yet but there's
00:22:04 --> 00:22:07 one coming that's the bottom line very
00:22:07 --> 00:22:10 beautifully put Andrew um you ought to
00:22:10 --> 00:22:14 be a journalist and so um the so so the
00:22:14 --> 00:22:17 uh too honest I'm too honest for
00:22:17 --> 00:22:20 that yeah you probably are the um the
00:22:20 --> 00:22:24 the uh bottom line is we the fact is
00:22:24 --> 00:22:25 that we know there is something there
00:22:25 --> 00:22:28 because astronomy tells us that we're
00:22:28 --> 00:22:31 missing something completely and the
00:22:31 --> 00:22:33 best candidate from all the research
00:22:33 --> 00:22:34 that's been done is some kind of
00:22:34 --> 00:22:37 subatomic particle and that's why you've
00:22:37 --> 00:22:40 just got to do these experiments and
00:22:40 --> 00:22:43 Hammer Down the or maybe open up the the
00:22:43 --> 00:22:45 space within which you're looking and as
00:22:45 --> 00:22:48 you say it's these various parameters
00:22:48 --> 00:22:49 that that are being defined by these
00:22:49 --> 00:22:52 different instruments so I hope we'll
00:22:52 --> 00:22:53 talk about stoil next year when it's
00:22:53 --> 00:22:56 switched on maybe the first thing it'll
00:22:56 --> 00:22:58 discover is a dark matter particle it
00:22:58 --> 00:23:00 well hope so yes uh it would be good to
00:23:00 --> 00:23:02 find one and then we we'll ask it a lot
00:23:02 --> 00:23:04 of questions because it needs to come up
00:23:04 --> 00:23:06 with answers yes we've been sitting here
00:23:06 --> 00:23:08 wondering for so long now uh if you'd
00:23:08 --> 00:23:10 like to chase up that story uh you can
00:23:10 --> 00:23:12 look it up on the ABC News website
00:23:12 --> 00:23:15 that's ABC Australia but you can also go
00:23:15 --> 00:23:18 to the LZ Dark Matter experiment website
00:23:18 --> 00:23:20 which I found while you were talking
00:23:20 --> 00:23:23 Fred L z. lbl.gov
00:23:23 --> 00:23:25 so that's got everything you need to
00:23:25 --> 00:23:27 know about the study and how it worked
00:23:27 --> 00:23:29 and what they did and all these big
00:23:29 --> 00:23:32 numbers that are too hard for my brain
00:23:32 --> 00:23:34 but uh yeah check it out uh this is
00:23:34 --> 00:23:38 sorry excellent it is it is uh this is
00:23:38 --> 00:23:43 Space Nuts with Andrew Dunley and Fred
00:23:43 --> 00:23:47 Watson and I feel fine Space Nuts okay
00:23:47 --> 00:23:49 Fred just as elusive as dark matter
00:23:49 --> 00:23:51 although the difference being we
00:23:51 --> 00:23:53 probably know that dark matter exists we
00:23:53 --> 00:23:56 don't know if extraterrestrial life does
00:23:56 --> 00:23:59 and uh once again the firm
00:23:59 --> 00:24:01 Paradox has been put under the
00:24:01 --> 00:24:03 microscope or the telescope or whatever
00:24:03 --> 00:24:07 scope you want to use uh and questions
00:24:07 --> 00:24:09 are being asked some new ideas about uh
00:24:09 --> 00:24:13 life in the universe or not what's going
00:24:13 --> 00:24:19 on uh yes a paper by uh a person by the
00:24:19 --> 00:24:22 name of I guess it's
00:24:22 --> 00:24:26 vorin rakic sounds about right probably
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 really mangling that
00:24:29 --> 00:24:34 really uh uh who is a scientist
00:24:34 --> 00:24:37 uh vulin is a Serbian
00:24:38 --> 00:24:40 philosopher he's uh um somebody who
00:24:41 --> 00:24:43 thinks about these things and has
00:24:43 --> 00:24:45 published a paper in the Journal of
00:24:45 --> 00:24:48 astrobiology um which I have in front of
00:24:48 --> 00:24:51 me at the moment um the international
00:24:51 --> 00:24:53 German Journal sorry the international
00:24:53 --> 00:24:55 Journal of
00:24:55 --> 00:24:57 astrobiology um the paper is called a
00:24:57 --> 00:25:00 non anthropocentric solution to the fmy
00:25:00 --> 00:25:04 Paradox I like the name of that yeah and
00:25:04 --> 00:25:08 and that's right so it means um we're
00:25:08 --> 00:25:12 thinking too too in too limited a
00:25:12 --> 00:25:15 fashion that's the bottom line that we
00:25:15 --> 00:25:19 may the extraterrestrial life may
00:25:19 --> 00:25:22 have so so different set of
00:25:23 --> 00:25:25 characteristics that to human or to to
00:25:25 --> 00:25:28 terrestrial life that we're just miss
00:25:28 --> 00:25:32 missing it completely uh that's what he
00:25:32 --> 00:25:34 means by nonanthropocentric
00:25:34 --> 00:25:38 uh um solution I I you know I haven't
00:25:38 --> 00:25:40 heard the whole story yet but I I reckon
00:25:40 --> 00:25:43 he's spot on I think that could well be
00:25:43 --> 00:25:47 the answer it it it's what yes it's sort
00:25:47 --> 00:25:48 of what
00:25:48 --> 00:25:52 um you know what people urge us to do we
00:25:52 --> 00:25:54 we we get questions from people saying
00:25:54 --> 00:25:56 ah but have you thought of life that was
00:25:56 --> 00:25:59 based on Silicon rather than carbon and
00:25:59 --> 00:26:00 things like that and
00:26:00 --> 00:26:03 yes yeah we have talked about it all of
00:26:03 --> 00:26:07 those we we've thought about that but um
00:26:07 --> 00:26:12 um Professor Rik or rakic uh is urging
00:26:12 --> 00:26:16 us to be even more Broad in our thinking
00:26:16 --> 00:26:20 so so what he what he suggests is that
00:26:20 --> 00:26:21 um the
00:26:21 --> 00:26:23 normal
00:26:23 --> 00:26:27 explanations uh and the several people
00:26:27 --> 00:26:28 have proposed
00:26:28 --> 00:26:33 explanations uh that they're all too
00:26:33 --> 00:26:36 anthropocentric they're putting humans
00:26:36 --> 00:26:39 in the center of the picture uh as f.org
00:26:39 --> 00:26:43 has put in their article about this yeah
00:26:43 --> 00:26:47 um and said and suggests that alien life
00:26:47 --> 00:26:50 might be unobservable to the senses that
00:26:50 --> 00:26:52 we as humans have
00:26:52 --> 00:26:56 developed um so but uh the but this
00:26:56 --> 00:27:00 philosopher is clearly a a study um
00:27:00 --> 00:27:04 sorry a a very profoundly thinking uh
00:27:04 --> 00:27:09 Phil um person in the field of this kind
00:27:09 --> 00:27:14 of approach uh he's he's basically uh at
00:27:15 --> 00:27:17 the works at the center for the study of
00:27:17 --> 00:27:21 bioethics University of Belgrade uh and
00:27:21 --> 00:27:24 um clearly spent a lot of time thinking
00:27:24 --> 00:27:28 about this I'm trying to think if how we
00:27:28 --> 00:27:30 can summarize it uh he's got let me just
00:27:30 --> 00:27:33 go back to the abstract for his paper
00:27:33 --> 00:27:35 because he's he's
00:27:35 --> 00:27:38 classifying um the solutions to the
00:27:38 --> 00:27:41 firery Paradox in four different
00:27:41 --> 00:27:45 categories uh and this is what his paper
00:27:45 --> 00:27:48 discusses so the the categories are
00:27:48 --> 00:27:51 first of all exceptionality
00:27:51 --> 00:27:55 solutions uh that means we are
00:27:55 --> 00:27:58 exceptional that there isn't any other
00:27:58 --> 00:27:59 life in the
00:27:59 --> 00:28:02 universe uh number two is Annihilation
00:28:02 --> 00:28:06 solutions that is that in extr
00:28:06 --> 00:28:07 terrestrial intelligence doesn't last
00:28:08 --> 00:28:10 very long it gets annihilated one way or
00:28:10 --> 00:28:12 another either by natural causes you
00:28:12 --> 00:28:17 know Supernova wiping out life or selfin
00:28:17 --> 00:28:19 self self-inflicted ones exactly the
00:28:19 --> 00:28:21 ones that we naturally think about wars
00:28:21 --> 00:28:24 or or even viruses you know runaway
00:28:24 --> 00:28:27 viruses things of that sort um and then
00:28:27 --> 00:28:29 communication barrier Solutions sorry I
00:28:29 --> 00:28:32 said there were four that's only three
00:28:32 --> 00:28:36 uh that um that that means that there's
00:28:36 --> 00:28:39 no ability to communicate uh and and I
00:28:39 --> 00:28:42 can imagine um one scenario with that
00:28:42 --> 00:28:44 might be for example if the the is
00:28:44 --> 00:28:47 extraterrestrial intelligence in the
00:28:47 --> 00:28:51 oceans of Enceladus or of uh vopo where
00:28:51 --> 00:28:55 there's no way of penetrating that ice
00:28:55 --> 00:28:57 covering the glass ceiling if I can put
00:28:57 --> 00:28:59 it that way you can't get through that
00:28:59 --> 00:29:00 so we would never know about that so
00:29:00 --> 00:29:02 it's a communication
00:29:02 --> 00:29:07 barrier um but then he says really what
00:29:07 --> 00:29:10 we've got to do is take humans out of
00:29:10 --> 00:29:12 the equation all together uh forget
00:29:12 --> 00:29:16 about human life and look at the the
00:29:16 --> 00:29:21 broader context what sort of Life there
00:29:21 --> 00:29:24 might be whether it's life that exists
00:29:24 --> 00:29:27 as in organic matter or you know
00:29:27 --> 00:29:31 something sort of um uh entity that we
00:29:31 --> 00:29:34 are not capable of
00:29:34 --> 00:29:37 perceiving uh and it's I think what he's
00:29:37 --> 00:29:39 doing is setting the
00:29:39 --> 00:29:42 groundwork uh
00:29:42 --> 00:29:46 for possible future thinking about this
00:29:46 --> 00:29:48 and in fact the last line of the
00:29:48 --> 00:29:51 abstract of uh of his paper is in the
00:29:51 --> 00:29:53 light of the Revolutionary developments
00:29:53 --> 00:29:56 in theoretical physics it is likely that
00:29:56 --> 00:29:58 in the future these developments will be
00:29:59 --> 00:30:01 reflected in increasingly
00:30:01 --> 00:30:03 non-anthropocentric solutions to the
00:30:03 --> 00:30:06 firery Paradox in other words people
00:30:06 --> 00:30:09 thinking more outside the
00:30:09 --> 00:30:11 box you know what I I think that's a
00:30:11 --> 00:30:13 great way
00:30:13 --> 00:30:16 to it's a great idea to consider that
00:30:16 --> 00:30:19 because uh I think he went on to say
00:30:19 --> 00:30:21 that um you know some of these entities
00:30:21 --> 00:30:22 could
00:30:22 --> 00:30:25 exist as you know made up of dark matter
00:30:25 --> 00:30:28 or dark energy or you know the things
00:30:28 --> 00:30:29 we've been talking about that we can't
00:30:29 --> 00:30:32 detect yes but yeah that's right that's
00:30:32 --> 00:30:35 a possibility and I love the way he
00:30:35 --> 00:30:39 talks about how um you know we perceive
00:30:39 --> 00:30:40 the intelligence of other creatures on
00:30:40 --> 00:30:43 earth like Wales and dolphins but what
00:30:43 --> 00:30:46 do they think of us do they look at us
00:30:46 --> 00:30:49 as intelligent maybe they don't maybe
00:30:49 --> 00:30:51 they just go look at these dim wits I
00:30:51 --> 00:30:56 can't even swim um that's right and and
00:30:56 --> 00:31:00 you know and how um insect life
00:31:00 --> 00:31:02 perceives humans do they look at us as
00:31:02 --> 00:31:05 intelligent creatures I I think not they
00:31:05 --> 00:31:08 probably just they may not even
00:31:08 --> 00:31:10 recognize us as alive and that's where
00:31:10 --> 00:31:13 he's coming from yeah that's that's
00:31:13 --> 00:31:15 right that's where he's coming from it
00:31:15 --> 00:31:17 it and and it is I think you know you're
00:31:17 --> 00:31:21 you're clearly um uh um enamored by the
00:31:21 --> 00:31:23 ideas that he's putting forward is a I
00:31:23 --> 00:31:25 have to say Andre it's an interesting
00:31:25 --> 00:31:27 it's an interesting way of looking at it
00:31:27 --> 00:31:31 and it sort of opens the the whole world
00:31:31 --> 00:31:35 of science and technology and astronomy
00:31:35 --> 00:31:38 to being more philosophical being you
00:31:38 --> 00:31:41 know uh using philosophy as a way of
00:31:41 --> 00:31:44 analyzing possibilities probabilities
00:31:44 --> 00:31:46 and even things that are so far out of
00:31:46 --> 00:31:49 the norm that we haven't even looked
00:31:49 --> 00:31:53 there but maybe we should that's right
00:31:53 --> 00:31:58 um I um feel I've not done uh uh
00:31:58 --> 00:32:02 this professor service in terms of uh my
00:32:02 --> 00:32:05 explanation of his theory uh but the
00:32:05 --> 00:32:08 paper actually uh if if um our listeners
00:32:08 --> 00:32:11 can check it up on the is one you can
00:32:11 --> 00:32:13 look at online see in the international
00:32:13 --> 00:32:15 Journal of astrobiology it's called a
00:32:15 --> 00:32:17 non-anthropocentric solution to the
00:32:17 --> 00:32:20 firmy Paradox um it's very beautifully
00:32:20 --> 00:32:22 laid out um I'm not used to reading
00:32:22 --> 00:32:24 papers by philosophers but this is
00:32:24 --> 00:32:26 really neat and the the three types of
00:32:26 --> 00:32:28 solutions that I mentioned he lists them
00:32:28 --> 00:32:31 here um uh the exceptional
00:32:31 --> 00:32:33 exceptionality Solutions include the
00:32:33 --> 00:32:35 Earth is an exception or intelligent
00:32:35 --> 00:32:38 life is an ex in an exception um and
00:32:39 --> 00:32:40 that's the one that I've tended to trot
00:32:40 --> 00:32:43 out a lot uh in recent times the
00:32:43 --> 00:32:47 annihilation Solutions suggest uh
00:32:47 --> 00:32:49 include periodic annihilations of
00:32:49 --> 00:32:50 intelligent life caused by natural
00:32:50 --> 00:32:53 events uh Advanced forms of intelligence
00:32:53 --> 00:32:55 have the tendency to destroy themselves
00:32:55 --> 00:32:58 or to destroy others and then the
00:32:58 --> 00:33:00 communication barrier Solutions of which
00:33:00 --> 00:33:03 there are many um they broadcast signals
00:33:03 --> 00:33:04 that are only detectable for a short
00:33:04 --> 00:33:07 space of time extraterrestrial
00:33:07 --> 00:33:09 intelligent life may be incomprehensible
00:33:09 --> 00:33:11 to humans that's what the one you were
00:33:11 --> 00:33:12 talking about regard to insects and
00:33:12 --> 00:33:15 things yeah they may reside too far away
00:33:15 --> 00:33:18 from humans um it's a really interesting
00:33:18 --> 00:33:22 list of of uh of reasons why the familyy
00:33:22 --> 00:33:24 Paradox might still be a paradox and
00:33:24 --> 00:33:26 then the alternative solution that he
00:33:26 --> 00:33:29 presents is itself uh a really
00:33:29 --> 00:33:31 interesting set of reading I'd urge
00:33:31 --> 00:33:32 anybody who's interested in this problem
00:33:32 --> 00:33:34 to have a look at the papers yes indeed
00:33:34 --> 00:33:37 you can read the story on f.org
00:33:37 --> 00:33:41 phys.org as well so uh yeah uh or the
00:33:41 --> 00:33:44 international Journal of
00:33:44 --> 00:33:46 astrobiology yeah that's it's a good one
00:33:46 --> 00:33:48 it's a really yeah fascinating story
00:33:48 --> 00:33:50 gets your thinking outside the box love
00:33:50 --> 00:33:53 love those love those sorts of theories
00:33:53 --> 00:33:55 uh that wraps it up Fred thank you so
00:33:55 --> 00:33:57 much uh it's a great pleasure Andrew
00:33:57 --> 00:33:59 it's always good to talk about these
00:33:59 --> 00:34:00 things especially when we get ideas as
00:34:00 --> 00:34:02 stimulating as that yes I'm sure
00:34:02 --> 00:34:06 questions will come yes uh and don't
00:34:06 --> 00:34:09 forget if you uh want to uh follow us on
00:34:09 --> 00:34:11 social media we've got the Space Nuts
00:34:11 --> 00:34:13 podcast group Facebook page our own
00:34:13 --> 00:34:16 specific Facebook page uh we're on
00:34:16 --> 00:34:18 Instagram and YouTube and don't forget
00:34:18 --> 00:34:21 to hit subscribe if you're a YouTube
00:34:21 --> 00:34:23 follower uh and um thanks frud we'll
00:34:23 --> 00:34:25 catch you real soon on the next episode
00:34:25 --> 00:34:27 answering some questions we'll see you
00:34:27 --> 00:34:28 then
00:34:28 --> 00:34:30 sounds great Andrew I look forward to
00:34:30 --> 00:34:33 that and thanks to Hugh in the studio
00:34:33 --> 00:34:35 who uh had all the answers to all the
00:34:35 --> 00:34:37 questions we asked today but we don't
00:34:37 --> 00:34:39 let him on the show because we just
00:34:39 --> 00:34:41 think he's too clever and from me Andrew
00:34:41 --> 00:34:42 Dunley thanks for your company we'll see
00:34:42 --> 00:34:45 you on the next episode of Space Nuts
00:34:45 --> 00:34:48 bye-bye nuts you been listening to the
00:34:48 --> 00:34:50 Space Nuts
00:34:50 --> 00:34:53 podcast available at Apple podcasts
00:34:53 --> 00:34:56 Spotify iHeart radio or your favorite
00:34:56 --> 00:34:58 podcast player you can also stream on
00:34:58 --> 00:35:01 demand at bites.com this has been
00:35:01 --> 00:35:03 another quality podcast production from
00:35:03 --> 00:35:06 b.com