Source:
https://www.spreaker.com/episode/460-gravity-reimagined-quantum-field-fables-black-hole-mysteries--62348905
Space Nuts #460 Q&A Edition
Join Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson in this thought-provoking Q&A episode of Space Nuts, where they delve into the mysteries of the cosmos. From the curious nature of gravity and quantum fields to the potential of ultra-massive black holes, this episode is filled with insightful discussions and cosmic wonders.
Episode Highlights:
- Gravity Reimagined: Carrick from Wengari, New Zealand, poses a fascinating question about gravity. Could it be pushing us away rather than pulling us in? Fred Watson Watson explores the implications of this intriguing perspective on one of the universe's fundamental forces.
- Quantum Field Interactions: Rennie from California inquires about the behaviour of quantum fields and their interactions, such as between magnetic fields and the Higgs field. Discover the complexities of quantum theory and the nature of these subatomic interactions.
- Gravitational Lensing: Rusty from Donnybrook asks whether an ultra-massive black hole could be revealed by its gravitational lensing effects. Fred Watson Watson explains the principles of gravitational lensing and the challenges of detecting such cosmic phenomena.
- Telescopic Limitations: David wonders why we can't use telescopes like the James Webb to see fine details on the moon. Learn about the limitations of angular resolution and the future of telescopic technology.
- Star Wars Trivia: Martin Berman Gorvine from Maryland shares a humorous piece of Star Wars trivia, leaving listeners with a clever play on words.
00:00 - Andrew Dunkley answers your questions on this week's Space Nuts
01:38 - Fred: We understand gravity as a force that pulls us into objects with mass
07:06 - How do quantum fields behave? Do they interact with each other
10:12 - Andrew Dunkley with Professor Fred Watson on gravitational lensing questions
13:13 - David Haven: The sensitivity to detail depends on the diameter of the telescope
19:28 - Martin Berman Gorvine says the James Webb telescope will be worse than previous telescopes
23:16 - If you've got a question for Space Nuts, send it in
For more Space Nuts, including our continually updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our https://www.spacenutspodcast.com. Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on facebook, X, YouTube Music, Instagram, and TikTok. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favourite platform.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 hi there thanks for joining us on a Q&A
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 edition of Space Nuts my name is Andrew
00:00:05 --> 00:00:08 Dunley coming up we will be looking at
00:00:08 --> 00:00:11 gravity is it working backwards and we
00:00:11 --> 00:00:13 don't know it we'll um answer that
00:00:13 --> 00:00:16 question Quantum Fields Ultra massive
00:00:16 --> 00:00:18 black holes getting up in uh close and
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 personal with telescopes is it possible
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 and a very interesting surprise at the
00:00:24 --> 00:00:26 end from one of our regular sender iners
00:00:26 --> 00:00:29 who's uh well I I'll preempt it by
00:00:29 --> 00:00:30 saying I think it's it's a
00:00:30 --> 00:00:33 joke you figure it out for yourself
00:00:33 --> 00:00:35 that's all coming up on this episode of
00:00:35 --> 00:00:38 Space Nuts 15 seconds guidance is
00:00:38 --> 00:00:43 internal 10 9 ignition sequence start
00:00:43 --> 00:00:49 Space Nuts 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1
00:00:49 --> 00:00:53 Space Nuts asut report it feels good and
00:00:53 --> 00:00:56 it's always good to have the presence of
00:00:56 --> 00:00:58 Professor Fred Watson astronomer at
00:00:58 --> 00:01:00 large hello Fred
00:01:00 --> 00:01:02 hello Andrew yes it's good to have your
00:01:02 --> 00:01:04 presence too because without that I'd be
00:01:04 --> 00:01:07 sunk yeah well I'd be twiddling my
00:01:07 --> 00:01:12 thumbs and you'd be talking to
00:01:12 --> 00:01:15 yourself yeah um let's get straight into
00:01:15 --> 00:01:18 some questions and uh We've we've got a
00:01:18 --> 00:01:21 whole bunch uh but um and some of this
00:01:21 --> 00:01:23 might sound familiar because people keep
00:01:23 --> 00:01:25 coming back to topics we've discussed
00:01:25 --> 00:01:27 and asking questions about questions
00:01:27 --> 00:01:29 that we've answered and and and it's
00:01:29 --> 00:01:31 fine I mean it keeps the conversation
00:01:31 --> 00:01:35 going and um obviously you know people
00:01:35 --> 00:01:37 are very interested in a lot of these uh
00:01:37 --> 00:01:40 topics uh this first question comes from
00:01:40 --> 00:01:43 Carrick hello space nuts uh sending this
00:01:43 --> 00:01:45 question from wangari New Zealand I hope
00:01:45 --> 00:01:48 I pronounce that correctly I was
00:01:48 --> 00:01:49 pondering gravity and dark matter
00:01:49 --> 00:01:52 recently and had a thought we understand
00:01:52 --> 00:01:55 gravity is a force that pulls us into
00:01:55 --> 00:01:58 objects with mass however is it not
00:01:58 --> 00:02:00 possible that this attraction force is
00:02:00 --> 00:02:03 not there at all and is replaced by a
00:02:03 --> 00:02:06 force that is rather pushing us away
00:02:06 --> 00:02:09 into objects with mass my thinking
00:02:09 --> 00:02:11 behind this started from the fact that
00:02:11 --> 00:02:13 our known universe is expanding at an
00:02:13 --> 00:02:16 accelerated rate and the cause behind
00:02:16 --> 00:02:19 this unknown uh energy or force is dark
00:02:20 --> 00:02:22 energy uh even as we experience this on
00:02:22 --> 00:02:24 Earth rather than being attracted
00:02:24 --> 00:02:27 towards the center of our Earth uh are
00:02:27 --> 00:02:30 we rather repelled by the forces
00:02:30 --> 00:02:32 uh towards Earth thanks for taking the
00:02:32 --> 00:02:36 time to read this Carrick thanks Carrick
00:02:36 --> 00:02:38 uh you that turns the whole gravity
00:02:38 --> 00:02:40 Theory upside down
00:02:40 --> 00:02:44 Fred yeah uh it's
00:02:44 --> 00:02:47 so I mean in a way it's a legitimate way
00:02:47 --> 00:02:51 of looking at uh gravity uh and it it
00:02:51 --> 00:02:54 goes to something we were talking about
00:02:54 --> 00:02:57 in the last episode if you if you uh
00:02:57 --> 00:02:59 look at you know Einstein's relativity
00:02:59 --> 00:03:01 which is probably the best well it is
00:03:01 --> 00:03:04 the best theory of gravity we have uh
00:03:04 --> 00:03:09 and and imagine um what a a massive body
00:03:09 --> 00:03:13 does uh we we we can only illustrate it
00:03:13 --> 00:03:14 in two Dimensions because we hav got
00:03:14 --> 00:03:16 three-dimensional cartoons for this sort
00:03:16 --> 00:03:19 of thing but it's always the picture of
00:03:19 --> 00:03:21 something solid like a planet uh sitting
00:03:22 --> 00:03:25 on a on a basically a trampoline sheet
00:03:25 --> 00:03:28 which it's bending and pulling down to
00:03:28 --> 00:03:30 the middle so that uh what you've got is
00:03:30 --> 00:03:32 a represent representation there of the
00:03:32 --> 00:03:36 shape of space uh and um it's the
00:03:36 --> 00:03:39 massive object that is uh causing the
00:03:39 --> 00:03:43 Distortion of space uh and that puts a
00:03:43 --> 00:03:46 slope puts an an incline onto the shape
00:03:46 --> 00:03:50 of space so from from our experience
00:03:50 --> 00:03:53 here on Earth the if we're standing on
00:03:53 --> 00:03:55 the planet surface the shape of space is
00:03:55 --> 00:03:57 slightly different uh at our head from
00:03:57 --> 00:04:00 what it is at our feet could could could
00:04:00 --> 00:04:02 that be demonstrated and this is just my
00:04:02 --> 00:04:04 brain thinking uh the same way a ship
00:04:04 --> 00:04:07 displaces
00:04:07 --> 00:04:12 water is that the same kind of effect um
00:04:12 --> 00:04:15 so uh well it that if you if you've got
00:04:15 --> 00:04:19 a ship displacing water uh it it
00:04:19 --> 00:04:20 basically put the ship in the water and
00:04:20 --> 00:04:24 the water moves away uh and so um that
00:04:25 --> 00:04:27 that's a a sort of static thing with
00:04:27 --> 00:04:30 gravity what you've got is a bending of
00:04:30 --> 00:04:32 the surface um now shipping water
00:04:32 --> 00:04:34 doesn't bend the surface it does for a
00:04:34 --> 00:04:37 bit right I see go back okay but but
00:04:37 --> 00:04:39 with with the with the space itself that
00:04:39 --> 00:04:43 bending stays stays there space bends in
00:04:43 --> 00:04:46 response to matter uh no matter what it
00:04:46 --> 00:04:49 is and you could so you know what
00:04:49 --> 00:04:51 Carrick says is correct you could
00:04:51 --> 00:04:54 equally well uh given that scenario of
00:04:54 --> 00:04:57 the planet sitting on a trampoline and
00:04:57 --> 00:04:59 distorting the surface you could equally
00:04:59 --> 00:05:01 well think of that as being something
00:05:01 --> 00:05:03 that's pushing that's pushing you from
00:05:03 --> 00:05:04 the
00:05:04 --> 00:05:07 outside uh because it's it's it's
00:05:07 --> 00:05:08 effectively the same thing that the
00:05:08 --> 00:05:10 bottom line is that space is being
00:05:10 --> 00:05:14 distorted by uh by gravity and we feel
00:05:14 --> 00:05:17 that as a pull but equivalently we we
00:05:17 --> 00:05:19 could call it a push from the outside um
00:05:19 --> 00:05:22 because it has the same effect uh so
00:05:22 --> 00:05:25 relativity does sort of in in some ways
00:05:25 --> 00:05:29 lead you to that effect um the the
00:05:29 --> 00:05:31 bottom line though and I guess the focus
00:05:31 --> 00:05:33 of uh you know the the thought trail
00:05:33 --> 00:05:36 that Carrick was pursuing there is that
00:05:36 --> 00:05:39 yes we understand all that and that all
00:05:39 --> 00:05:41 works but dark matter and dark energy
00:05:41 --> 00:05:43 are both things on top of that that
00:05:43 --> 00:05:47 actually affect uh they do affect the
00:05:47 --> 00:05:49 shape of space uh in their own different
00:05:49 --> 00:05:52 way uh but it's not the same as just
00:05:52 --> 00:05:54 normal gravity which is very predictable
00:05:54 --> 00:05:56 and very understandable so I don't think
00:05:56 --> 00:05:59 we could use that notion as a as a any
00:05:59 --> 00:06:02 kind of a vehicle for uh Illuminating
00:06:02 --> 00:06:03 what dark matter and dark energy are
00:06:04 --> 00:06:06 that's got to come from the work that's
00:06:06 --> 00:06:10 already ongoing I think okay
00:06:10 --> 00:06:13 physics but his his ID does hold a
00:06:13 --> 00:06:16 little bit of water in terms of uh the
00:06:16 --> 00:06:19 Earth is um you know sitting on the
00:06:19 --> 00:06:23 trampoline and the trampoline is pushing
00:06:23 --> 00:06:25 back yes that's right in the way that's
00:06:25 --> 00:06:27 that's correct uh so that you know
00:06:27 --> 00:06:29 anything coming from uh from the outside
00:06:29 --> 00:06:31 edge of the trampoline you roll a marble
00:06:31 --> 00:06:33 down it or something you could equally
00:06:33 --> 00:06:34 well say well that it's the outside
00:06:34 --> 00:06:37 that's pushing the marble in rather than
00:06:37 --> 00:06:39 the the gravitational Mass that's
00:06:39 --> 00:06:41 pulling it in and it's because
00:06:41 --> 00:06:43 relativity tells us that it's the shape
00:06:43 --> 00:06:46 of space that has changed there you go
00:06:46 --> 00:06:48 all right there you go Carrick you um
00:06:48 --> 00:06:50 you weren't far off the mark can't wait
00:06:50 --> 00:06:52 to read the scientific paper you're now
00:06:52 --> 00:06:55 going to write for us yes that's
00:06:55 --> 00:06:59 right okay uh we'll move on and um um uh
00:06:59 --> 00:07:01 hello to everyone in New Zealand
00:07:01 --> 00:07:02 beautiful country been there a couple of
00:07:02 --> 00:07:05 times would go back tomorrow but not to
00:07:05 --> 00:07:08 watch rugby uh now um next question
00:07:08 --> 00:07:11 comes from reny in California renie
00:07:11 --> 00:07:13 writes to us fairly regularly uh how do
00:07:14 --> 00:07:16 Quantum Fields behave do they interact
00:07:16 --> 00:07:18 with each other in any way take for
00:07:18 --> 00:07:21 instance a magnetic field with the higs
00:07:21 --> 00:07:23 field you might need to elaborate on
00:07:23 --> 00:07:24 that a bit
00:07:24 --> 00:07:27 Fred yeah uh so Quantum fields are the
00:07:27 --> 00:07:30 equivalent of of su atomic
00:07:30 --> 00:07:34 particles uh and this is where you know
00:07:34 --> 00:07:36 quantum theory gets a bit weird because
00:07:36 --> 00:07:38 you can you can think of a subatomic
00:07:38 --> 00:07:41 particle in two different ways uh in
00:07:41 --> 00:07:43 fact three different ways actually uh
00:07:43 --> 00:07:44 because you can think of it as a
00:07:44 --> 00:07:46 particle you know something like a golf
00:07:46 --> 00:07:48 ball just to draw an analog that would
00:07:48 --> 00:07:50 be familiar to you Andrew uh or you
00:07:50 --> 00:07:53 could think of it as a wave U and
00:07:53 --> 00:07:55 because particles and waves are
00:07:55 --> 00:07:57 equivalent or you can think of it as a
00:07:57 --> 00:07:59 field because
00:07:59 --> 00:08:01 the field is equivalent and and by a
00:08:01 --> 00:08:03 field I mean kind of what we were just
00:08:03 --> 00:08:07 talking about uh in terms of gravity uh
00:08:07 --> 00:08:12 that bent um or distorted uh trampoline
00:08:12 --> 00:08:16 sheet is a field if it's uh if it's a
00:08:16 --> 00:08:19 representation of space and it's a field
00:08:19 --> 00:08:22 uh it's a field caused by gravity uh so
00:08:22 --> 00:08:23 um
00:08:23 --> 00:08:28 Ren's uh question is how these fields
00:08:28 --> 00:08:32 interact and some of them certainly do
00:08:32 --> 00:08:35 but uh a
00:08:35 --> 00:08:37 magnetic
00:08:37 --> 00:08:40 field probably doesn't interact with a
00:08:40 --> 00:08:43 higs field and look I'm I'm not a
00:08:43 --> 00:08:46 Quantum field theorist by any means as
00:08:46 --> 00:08:49 anybody who is listening to this will
00:08:49 --> 00:08:53 immediately realize but magnetism is
00:08:53 --> 00:08:54 it's well it's the electromagnetic force
00:08:55 --> 00:08:58 the electromagnetic field and that uh
00:08:58 --> 00:09:00 Electro magnetic field when you turn it
00:09:00 --> 00:09:03 into a particle it becomes it is a
00:09:03 --> 00:09:06 photon the photon is the uh is the
00:09:06 --> 00:09:07 particle equivalent of the
00:09:07 --> 00:09:11 electromagnetic field uh and a photon
00:09:11 --> 00:09:14 does not have a rest Mass it's got a
00:09:14 --> 00:09:16 mass but only because of its energy uh
00:09:16 --> 00:09:19 as it moves it doesn't have a rest mass
00:09:19 --> 00:09:22 and the higs field is what imparts the
00:09:22 --> 00:09:26 rest Mass to other particles so my guess
00:09:26 --> 00:09:28 is and it is just a guess Here Andrew
00:09:28 --> 00:09:30 that the magnetism does not interact
00:09:30 --> 00:09:32 with the higs field but I think some of
00:09:32 --> 00:09:34 the other particles would do you know
00:09:35 --> 00:09:37 the uh the other fundamental particles
00:09:37 --> 00:09:39 would interact with one another because
00:09:39 --> 00:09:43 their fields do okay right thanks for
00:09:43 --> 00:09:45 that ready yeah look he comes up with
00:09:45 --> 00:09:47 some real pearlers of questions great
00:09:47 --> 00:09:49 questions yeah he puts you must you must
00:09:49 --> 00:09:53 have um you know a very uh quick mind Ry
00:09:53 --> 00:09:54 to come up with these questions he puts
00:09:55 --> 00:09:57 a lot of thought into them and uh you
00:09:57 --> 00:09:58 some of them
00:09:58 --> 00:10:01 are really clever really clever uh good
00:10:01 --> 00:10:03 to hear from you Ry keep them coming I
00:10:03 --> 00:10:04 know we've got a couple more in storage
00:10:04 --> 00:10:06 that we'll we'll pluck out sooner or
00:10:06 --> 00:10:09 later and uh an answer down the track uh
00:10:09 --> 00:10:12 but yeah good to hear from you as always
00:10:12 --> 00:10:14 this is Space Nuts Andrew Dunley here
00:10:14 --> 00:10:18 with Professor Fred
00:10:18 --> 00:10:22 Watson and I feel fine Space Nuts uh now
00:10:22 --> 00:10:26 Fred uh another regular contributor and
00:10:26 --> 00:10:28 we didn't hear from him too long ago but
00:10:28 --> 00:10:30 he he always always seems to um like
00:10:30 --> 00:10:33 renie come up with a few curve balls for
00:10:33 --> 00:10:35 us it's Rusty and Donny
00:10:36 --> 00:10:38 Brook Rusty in Don
00:10:38 --> 00:10:43 Brook wondering would an ultra massive
00:10:43 --> 00:10:45 black hole near the center of a large
00:10:45 --> 00:10:49 void be revealed by its gravitational
00:10:49 --> 00:10:54 lensing of more distant of distant
00:10:54 --> 00:10:57 galaxies ah it kept it short and sweet
00:10:57 --> 00:11:00 okay so um did did you catch that Fred I
00:11:00 --> 00:11:02 did and I've got a short and sweet
00:11:02 --> 00:11:05 answer uh
00:11:05 --> 00:11:07 yes kid kid all
00:11:08 --> 00:11:11 laborate uh yeah so
00:11:11 --> 00:11:13 um
00:11:13 --> 00:11:17 so everything uh acts as a gravitational
00:11:17 --> 00:11:21 lens no matter what it is um including
00:11:21 --> 00:11:24 the Earth uh there have been uh ideas
00:11:24 --> 00:11:25 proposed of putting a
00:11:25 --> 00:11:27 spacecraft at the focus of the
00:11:27 --> 00:11:29 gravitational lens repres presented by
00:11:29 --> 00:11:32 the Earth uh I think can't remember
00:11:32 --> 00:11:33 where it is it's a long way off yeah I
00:11:34 --> 00:11:35 can imagine it would be find stable
00:11:35 --> 00:11:41 point but um so so the You Know It uh
00:11:41 --> 00:11:44 any object will will distort things
00:11:44 --> 00:11:47 behind uh the Sun the classic example
00:11:47 --> 00:11:50 and the fact that when the eclipse of
00:11:50 --> 00:11:53 1919 was observed uh the stars of the
00:11:54 --> 00:11:56 hiades which happened to be behind the
00:11:56 --> 00:11:58 Sun at that time were distorted in their
00:11:58 --> 00:12:01 positions by the gravitational effect of
00:12:01 --> 00:12:05 the sun uh and so um uh gravitational
00:12:05 --> 00:12:08 lensing is a property of all objects a
00:12:08 --> 00:12:11 human would do it if we were in space so
00:12:11 --> 00:12:13 yeah a super massive black hole is going
00:12:13 --> 00:12:15 to do it um the issue might well be
00:12:15 --> 00:12:18 though if the black hole is an active
00:12:18 --> 00:12:20 one that's to say it's it's gobbling up
00:12:20 --> 00:12:23 stuff around it and radiating it might
00:12:23 --> 00:12:25 be quite difficult to see the stuff
00:12:25 --> 00:12:28 behind it because we've got uh you know
00:12:28 --> 00:12:30 we'd have an accretion disc which is
00:12:30 --> 00:12:33 glowing uh and uh as we know from The
00:12:33 --> 00:12:34 Event Horizon telescope that will be
00:12:34 --> 00:12:36 radiating and we'll be able to see the
00:12:36 --> 00:12:39 accretion disc so yeah it's uh it's
00:12:39 --> 00:12:41 something that would happen but might be
00:12:41 --> 00:12:44 very difficult to detect okay all right
00:12:44 --> 00:12:48 um thank you Rusty as always um and I'm
00:12:48 --> 00:12:50 sure he'll send in more questions
00:12:50 --> 00:12:53 because he um he does he just does but
00:12:53 --> 00:12:55 he's he's another one that probably
00:12:55 --> 00:12:57 spends a lot of time contemplating these
00:12:57 --> 00:12:59 things we had Rusty on as a special
00:12:59 --> 00:13:04 guest some time ago and um we got all
00:13:04 --> 00:13:05 his questions out of his system but then
00:13:05 --> 00:13:06 he came
00:13:06 --> 00:13:10 up came come out with plenty more um
00:13:10 --> 00:13:14 next question comes from David uh if the
00:13:14 --> 00:13:17 James web telescope can see so far into
00:13:17 --> 00:13:20 the past with such great detail why
00:13:20 --> 00:13:22 can't we have a telescope where we can
00:13:22 --> 00:13:25 see every grain of sand on the moon or
00:13:25 --> 00:13:29 do we thank you David I I must confess I
00:13:29 --> 00:13:30 wondered the same
00:13:30 --> 00:13:35 thing good uh well I'm here to tell you
00:13:35 --> 00:13:38 why I'm guessing there's a reason why
00:13:38 --> 00:13:41 not yeah there is uh and it's it's all
00:13:41 --> 00:13:45 about so the the ability of a telescope
00:13:45 --> 00:13:46 to see
00:13:46 --> 00:13:49 deto is something we call in the trade
00:13:49 --> 00:13:51 we call it the angular resolution and
00:13:51 --> 00:13:56 it's the the angle on the sky that is
00:13:56 --> 00:13:58 the finest detail that the telescope can
00:13:58 --> 00:14:00 reveal
00:14:00 --> 00:14:04 uh with the Anglo Australian telescope
00:14:04 --> 00:14:07 here on in Northwestern New South well
00:14:07 --> 00:14:09 is a 4 meter angle Australian telescope
00:14:09 --> 00:14:12 3.9 meters the one I was asly charge off
00:14:12 --> 00:14:15 for a while that if you put it in space
00:14:15 --> 00:14:18 would resolve detail on a scale of a
00:14:18 --> 00:14:20 30th of an arc second now an arc second
00:14:20 --> 00:14:24 is is the angle made by uh basically a
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26 dime or a $1 coin at a distance of five
00:14:26 --> 00:14:29 kilometers yeah about three miles
00:14:29 --> 00:14:33 uh it's a tiny angle uh the aat in space
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35 could resolve a 30th of that something
00:14:35 --> 00:14:40 like a 30th of an arcc so uh the bottom
00:14:40 --> 00:14:42 line however is that because we're
00:14:42 --> 00:14:43 sitting at the bottom of an atmosphere
00:14:43 --> 00:14:46 that's quite turbulent the very best you
00:14:46 --> 00:14:49 can do is about 0.9 of an arcc on a
00:14:49 --> 00:14:52 really Exquisite Night uh and that would
00:14:52 --> 00:14:54 be the angle the minimal angle that you
00:14:54 --> 00:14:56 would be able to resolve now the uh
00:14:56 --> 00:14:59 James Webb Telescope is a 6.5 5 m
00:14:59 --> 00:15:01 telescope it's bigger than our Ang
00:15:02 --> 00:15:05 Australian telescope uh which is 4 M I
00:15:05 --> 00:15:10 just said 3.9 M uh and the um the
00:15:10 --> 00:15:14 sensitivity to detail depends linearly
00:15:14 --> 00:15:16 actually on the diameter of the
00:15:16 --> 00:15:18 telescope so the bigger your telescope
00:15:18 --> 00:15:21 the finer the detail you can see so with
00:15:21 --> 00:15:24 the James web telescope the finest
00:15:24 --> 00:15:27 detail it can see is
00:15:27 --> 00:15:32 068 of an arcc a little bit less finer
00:15:32 --> 00:15:34 than a tenth of an
00:15:34 --> 00:15:36 arcc
00:15:36 --> 00:15:39 um that's is that because is that
00:15:39 --> 00:15:41 because of its size and the fact that
00:15:41 --> 00:15:43 it's not being disrupted by Earth's
00:15:43 --> 00:15:46 atmosphere that's correct that's that's
00:15:46 --> 00:15:49 correct it's 68 Milli second is that
00:15:49 --> 00:15:50 right yes
00:15:51 --> 00:15:53 068 uh it's quite a bit less than a
00:15:53 --> 00:15:56 tenth actually anyway um the bottom line
00:15:56 --> 00:15:58 is that's the finest detail that the
00:15:58 --> 00:16:00 telescope can res olve you put it
00:16:00 --> 00:16:04 anywhere else uh and uh you know you can
00:16:04 --> 00:16:06 point it anywhere in the universe this
00:16:06 --> 00:16:08 is what I'm trying to say and you will
00:16:08 --> 00:16:10 get that same resolution to detail
00:16:10 --> 00:16:13 whether it's distant galaxies whether
00:16:13 --> 00:16:15 it's the planets whether it's
00:16:15 --> 00:16:19 exoplanets uh you will get the same
00:16:19 --> 00:16:21 finess of detail so what happens if you
00:16:21 --> 00:16:24 point it to the moon you get you get a
00:16:24 --> 00:16:29 resolution of 068 M sorry 06 eight
00:16:30 --> 00:16:32 arcs what does that show you at the
00:16:32 --> 00:16:35 distance of the Moon it will show you um
00:16:35 --> 00:16:40 details on a scale of 126 M that's the
00:16:40 --> 00:16:42 finest thing that you could see on the
00:16:42 --> 00:16:44 moon with the web telescope and it's
00:16:44 --> 00:16:47 quite big it's not grains of sand it's
00:16:47 --> 00:16:51 126 meters it's a big object and that's
00:16:51 --> 00:16:53 because the moon's a long way away
00:16:53 --> 00:16:55 384
00:16:55 --> 00:16:59 kilometers so okay do you think that the
00:16:59 --> 00:17:00 day may come where they'll build a
00:17:00 --> 00:17:02 bigger and better telescope that may be
00:17:02 --> 00:17:05 capable of much more detail I'm going to
00:17:05 --> 00:17:08 envisage the answer is yes because the
00:17:08 --> 00:17:10 yes so that we already we already have
00:17:10 --> 00:17:13 that on the stocks the
00:17:13 --> 00:17:17 39.3 meter diameter elt the extremely
00:17:17 --> 00:17:19 large telescope being built at s Amazon
00:17:19 --> 00:17:23 is in Chile uh now that telescope is at
00:17:23 --> 00:17:25 the bottom of the atmosphere So It
00:17:25 --> 00:17:28 suffers from that but it's got a very
00:17:28 --> 00:17:30 very sop phisticated system of Adaptive
00:17:30 --> 00:17:33 Optics on board that will give it 20
00:17:33 --> 00:17:35 times the detail sensitivity of the
00:17:35 --> 00:17:38 Hubble telescope wow remember the Hubble
00:17:38 --> 00:17:41 Is Not the gems web but smaller so uh
00:17:41 --> 00:17:46 it's um it's yeah it's uh uh it's a very
00:17:46 --> 00:17:50 fine resolution machine uh we still will
00:17:50 --> 00:17:53 only be seeing detail uh you know on the
00:17:53 --> 00:17:57 scale of tens of meters on the moon uh
00:17:58 --> 00:18:01 to to imagine seeing grains of sand you
00:18:01 --> 00:18:02 probably need a telescope bigger than
00:18:03 --> 00:18:05 the earth that worked out what it is uh
00:18:05 --> 00:18:06 and it's actually a lot easier just to
00:18:06 --> 00:18:09 send a spacecraft with a camera on it
00:18:09 --> 00:18:10 and that's how we've how we've seen
00:18:10 --> 00:18:13 images of all the Apollo Landing sites
00:18:13 --> 00:18:15 because of fluno reconnaissance orbitor
00:18:15 --> 00:18:18 which is photographing it from 30 or 50
00:18:18 --> 00:18:21 kilometers above the surface yeah I I
00:18:21 --> 00:18:24 was sort of harking back to the 60s and
00:18:24 --> 00:18:27 the early 70s with the moon missions um
00:18:27 --> 00:18:28 after they were all complete of course
00:18:28 --> 00:18:31 three gazillion books were released and
00:18:31 --> 00:18:33 I I got one that was aimed more at
00:18:33 --> 00:18:36 younger people and uh even though back
00:18:36 --> 00:18:38 then we only had black and white
00:18:38 --> 00:18:40 television yes kids it's true we only
00:18:40 --> 00:18:42 had black and white
00:18:42 --> 00:18:45 television and the pictures were quite
00:18:45 --> 00:18:49 fuzzy uh the book was
00:18:49 --> 00:18:52 mind-blowingly beautiful the the image
00:18:52 --> 00:18:54 was uh images as I recall from that book
00:18:54 --> 00:18:57 was so high definition compared to what
00:18:57 --> 00:18:59 we could see on TV I was I was
00:18:59 --> 00:19:02 absolutely Blown Away by it yeah um so
00:19:02 --> 00:19:05 even then the the cameras that they had
00:19:05 --> 00:19:07 on the moon were were quite uh quite
00:19:07 --> 00:19:10 brilliant um but uh you know when they
00:19:10 --> 00:19:12 go back and start walking around up
00:19:12 --> 00:19:15 there again I can't imagine what the um
00:19:16 --> 00:19:17 what the pictures are going to be like
00:19:17 --> 00:19:19 with modern day equipment it's going to
00:19:19 --> 00:19:20 be very
00:19:20 --> 00:19:22 exciting uh and even the pictures coming
00:19:22 --> 00:19:26 back from Mars so high these days that's
00:19:26 --> 00:19:28 right yeah they fantastic um I'm just
00:19:28 --> 00:19:31 going to revisit something I said Andrew
00:19:31 --> 00:19:34 yeah um which is was about the angle
00:19:34 --> 00:19:35 Australian telescope being able to
00:19:35 --> 00:19:39 resolve for 30th of an AR second uh that
00:19:39 --> 00:19:43 is um assuming the mirror is absolutely
00:19:43 --> 00:19:46 perfect with no flaws on it so in
00:19:46 --> 00:19:48 reality it will be slightly worse than
00:19:48 --> 00:19:52 that in space and that's why uh the
00:19:52 --> 00:19:54 figure that I mentioned for the James
00:19:54 --> 00:19:55 web telescope on
00:19:55 --> 00:19:59 068 uh is sort of you know sound as
00:19:59 --> 00:20:00 though it was worse than the angle
00:20:00 --> 00:20:02 Australian telescope it's not it's much
00:20:02 --> 00:20:05 better but that takes into account the
00:20:05 --> 00:20:07 imperfections in the mirror as well
00:20:07 --> 00:20:09 whereas the value that I quoted for the
00:20:09 --> 00:20:11 a8s is if the mirror was perfect if it
00:20:12 --> 00:20:13 was absolutely perfect mirror and the
00:20:13 --> 00:20:16 only thing that was uh limiting its
00:20:16 --> 00:20:19 ability to see detail was the theory of
00:20:19 --> 00:20:21 defraction what we're up against yeah
00:20:21 --> 00:20:24 yeah and just just in case anybody was
00:20:24 --> 00:20:25 listening carefully and said wait a
00:20:25 --> 00:20:29 minute he just said something else right
00:20:29 --> 00:20:31 yeah I I I I can't imagine what the
00:20:31 --> 00:20:34 budget is at a telescope like the Anglo
00:20:34 --> 00:20:37 Australian for uh for Windex I mean that
00:20:37 --> 00:20:42 must cost a fortune um you know um uh
00:20:42 --> 00:20:47 the we the Anglo telescope mirror is uh
00:20:47 --> 00:20:49 cleaned once a year when the aluminium
00:20:49 --> 00:20:53 surface is removed and re and it's Rec
00:20:53 --> 00:20:55 right so it's never cleaned with
00:20:55 --> 00:20:58 chemicals some some observatories avoid
00:20:58 --> 00:21:02 doing that by using carbon dioxide snow
00:21:02 --> 00:21:03 blow solid carbon dioxide across the
00:21:03 --> 00:21:05 river and that takes away some of the
00:21:05 --> 00:21:06 Dust we don't do that at the Ang
00:21:06 --> 00:21:09 Australian we take the surface away and
00:21:09 --> 00:21:11 Reco it
00:21:11 --> 00:21:13 but just down the road from the Anglo
00:21:13 --> 00:21:15 Australian telescope is the United
00:21:15 --> 00:21:17 Kingdom Schmid telescope which I was
00:21:17 --> 00:21:19 also astronomer in charge of Y that a
00:21:19 --> 00:21:22 1.2 meter diameter lens at the front not
00:21:22 --> 00:21:24 a mirror it does have a mirror in it but
00:21:24 --> 00:21:26 the main uh thing that gets dirty is a
00:21:26 --> 00:21:29 lens and guess what we used to clean it
00:21:29 --> 00:21:32 with
00:21:32 --> 00:21:35 Windex see ask a dumb question you get a
00:21:35 --> 00:21:38 great answer sometimes sometimes it
00:21:38 --> 00:21:42 works oh I was joking anyway that's good
00:21:42 --> 00:21:48 was good to know yeah oh well um so no
00:21:48 --> 00:21:50 it can't work David it's just um a bit
00:21:50 --> 00:21:52 beyond our capability and as said
00:21:52 --> 00:21:55 physics that dictates yeah and and you
00:21:55 --> 00:21:57 know if you wanted to build one capable
00:21:57 --> 00:21:59 of that you might as well bu the whole
00:22:00 --> 00:22:02 planet although that wor that worked for
00:22:02 --> 00:22:06 Darth Vader but um yeah all right thanks
00:22:06 --> 00:22:08 David thanks for the question one final
00:22:08 --> 00:22:10 thing it's not a question it's uh one of
00:22:10 --> 00:22:13 our regular sender iners uh who shall
00:22:13 --> 00:22:14 remain nameless because he'll tell us
00:22:14 --> 00:22:19 who he is anyway um this this is kind of
00:22:19 --> 00:22:22 well he's going to eventually tell a
00:22:22 --> 00:22:24 joke um but you're going to have to
00:22:24 --> 00:22:27 because he bleeps part of it out you're
00:22:27 --> 00:22:29 going to have to use your brain to
00:22:29 --> 00:22:30 figure out the punch line some people
00:22:30 --> 00:22:32 may already have heard this one I I love
00:22:32 --> 00:22:34 it here
00:22:34 --> 00:22:39 Martin hello space nuts Martin Burman
00:22:39 --> 00:22:44 gorvine here from pomac Maryland USA
00:22:44 --> 00:22:48 writer extraordinaire in many genres
00:22:48 --> 00:22:51 especially science fiction and I am
00:22:51 --> 00:22:54 currently working on a novel about an
00:22:54 --> 00:22:58 obnoxious billionaire called Egon Rusk
00:22:59 --> 00:23:04 and his plans to take a Starship full of
00:23:04 --> 00:23:07 dimwitted celebrities to found a new
00:23:07 --> 00:23:10 master race Among the
00:23:10 --> 00:23:14 Stars and how these plans may or may not
00:23:14 --> 00:23:17 come to grief I don't actually have a
00:23:17 --> 00:23:22 question this week I actually just have
00:23:22 --> 00:23:27 a little known bit of Star Wars trivia
00:23:27 --> 00:23:31 did you know know that George Lucas was
00:23:31 --> 00:23:35 originally planning to have Luke
00:23:35 --> 00:23:40 Skywalker's home planet Tatooine be a
00:23:40 --> 00:23:45 satellite of the seventh planet of our
00:23:45 --> 00:23:50 solar system yes but he had to move the
00:23:50 --> 00:23:55 planet Tatooine to a long long time ago
00:23:56 --> 00:24:00 in a galaxy far far away because someone
00:24:00 --> 00:24:03 pointed out to him that his original
00:24:03 --> 00:24:07 plan would have resulted in a double
00:24:07 --> 00:24:09 planet called
00:24:09 --> 00:24:14 Tatooine your bleep okay that's all the
00:24:14 --> 00:24:17 time we have for dad jokes today verman
00:24:17 --> 00:24:22 gorvine over and out out out oh Martin
00:24:22 --> 00:24:25 Oh Martin Martin Martin I love that joke
00:24:25 --> 00:24:28 though I really do it's very clever
00:24:28 --> 00:24:32 again a play on words a play on words uh
00:24:32 --> 00:24:34 it's uh it has done the rounds a bit but
00:24:34 --> 00:24:37 uh it's always worth retelling uh good
00:24:37 --> 00:24:38 on you Martin if you've got a question
00:24:38 --> 00:24:40 for us please jump on our website and
00:24:40 --> 00:24:42 send it in uh you can do that by going
00:24:42 --> 00:24:45 to Space Nuts podcast.com and then all
00:24:45 --> 00:24:48 you need to do is click on the AMA tab
00:24:48 --> 00:24:53 at the top and it's um a simple case of
00:24:53 --> 00:24:57 just um sending us a text question or if
00:24:57 --> 00:24:59 you've got a a with a microphone you can
00:24:59 --> 00:25:01 send us an audio question as always
00:25:01 --> 00:25:03 don't forget to tell us who you are and
00:25:03 --> 00:25:06 where from and uh we'd love to hear from
00:25:06 --> 00:25:09 you no matter how big small or
00:25:09 --> 00:25:11 insignificant the question we'll we'll
00:25:11 --> 00:25:14 give it a crack um and and sometimes we
00:25:14 --> 00:25:16 get a very similar question so if we
00:25:16 --> 00:25:17 don't answer yours chances are it's
00:25:17 --> 00:25:20 because someone else ask something the
00:25:20 --> 00:25:22 same uh and while you're there just have
00:25:22 --> 00:25:24 a look around and if you're on social
00:25:24 --> 00:25:27 media don't forget to like us or follow
00:25:27 --> 00:25:29 us or subscribe depending on which
00:25:29 --> 00:25:31 platform it is we're all done Fred thank
00:25:31 --> 00:25:32 you as
00:25:32 --> 00:25:35 always thank you Andrew good to talk to
00:25:35 --> 00:25:37 you and uh we'll catch up again soon I
00:25:38 --> 00:25:40 think we we will yes indeed Professor
00:25:40 --> 00:25:42 Fred Watson astronomer at large and H in
00:25:42 --> 00:25:43 the studio
00:25:43 --> 00:25:47 who didn't ask us any questions
00:25:47 --> 00:25:49 today it's very
00:25:49 --> 00:25:52 disappointing um but I'm sure that'll
00:25:52 --> 00:25:54 fix itself down the track uh from me
00:25:54 --> 00:25:56 Andrew Dunley thanks for your company
00:25:56 --> 00:25:57 we'll catch you again real soon on
00:25:57 --> 00:26:01 another episode Space Nuts bye-bye nuts
00:26:01 --> 00:26:04 you'll been listening to the Space Nuts
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00:26:07 --> 00:26:10 Spotify iHeart radio or your favorite
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00:26:15 --> 00:26:18 another quality podcast production from
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