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Artemis 2 Updates, Cosmic Iron Bars, and the Role of Hydrogen Cyanide in Life's Origins
In this exciting episode of Space Nuts, hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson delve into the latest developments in space exploration and cosmic phenomena. Join them as they discuss the progress of the Artemis 2 mission, the discovery of a mysterious iron bar in the Ring Nebula, and the intriguing role of hydrogen cyanide in the potential origins of life.
Episode Highlights:
- Artemis 2 Progress: Andrew and Fred provide an update on the Artemis 2 mission, which recently moved to launch pad 39B at Cape Canaveral. They discuss the upcoming wet dress rehearsal and the significance of this mission as a precursor to future lunar explorations.
- The Iron Bar Mystery: The hosts explore a fascinating discovery in the Ring Nebula, where scientists have identified a linear structure made of highly ionized iron gas. They discuss its potential origins and what this could mean for our understanding of planetary nebulae.
- Hydrogen Cyanide and Life: Andrew and Fred examine a study suggesting that hydrogen cyanide, often seen as a deadly substance, may play a crucial role in the formation of prebiotic molecules. They ponder the implications for life on other celestial bodies, such as Titan.
For more Space Nuts, including our continuously updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. (https://www.spacenutspodcast.com/) Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on Facebook, Instagram, and more. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favorite platform.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
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00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Hi there. Thanks for joining us again.
00:00:02 --> 00:00:04 This is Space Nuts, where we talk
00:00:04 --> 00:00:06 astronomy and space science every week,
00:00:06 --> 00:00:09 twice a week, in fact. On today's
00:00:09 --> 00:00:11 episode, we're going to look at the
00:00:11 --> 00:00:13 progress of Arteimus 2. There's an
00:00:13 --> 00:00:16 update for you, and it's good news. Uh,
00:00:16 --> 00:00:19 this is a weird story. An iron bar seen
00:00:19 --> 00:00:21 in space. And no, it is not a runaway
00:00:21 --> 00:00:23 spanner from the International Space
00:00:23 --> 00:00:26 Station, although that does happen. and
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28 something deadly that could be important
00:00:28 --> 00:00:31 in the origin of life. We'll find out
00:00:31 --> 00:00:33 about that on this episode of Space
00:00:33 --> 00:00:34 Nuts.
00:00:34 --> 00:00:39 >> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9
00:00:39 --> 00:00:41 Ignition sequence start.
00:00:41 --> 00:00:42 >> Space Nuts.
00:00:42 --> 00:00:47 >> 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1
00:00:47 --> 00:00:48 >> Space Nuts.
00:00:48 --> 00:00:51 >> Astronauts report. It feels good. Back
00:00:51 --> 00:00:53 for more with stories galore is
00:00:53 --> 00:00:55 Professor Fred Watson, astronomer at
00:00:55 --> 00:00:57 large. Hello, Fred.
00:00:57 --> 00:00:59 >> Good morning, Andrew. Or good good
00:01:00 --> 00:01:01 whatever part of the day it is when
00:01:01 --> 00:01:03 you're listening to this.
00:01:03 --> 00:01:05 >> Yes. It's difficult dealing with a
00:01:05 --> 00:01:06 global audience, isn't it? Because you
00:01:06 --> 00:01:07 just don't know.
00:01:07 --> 00:01:09 >> You just don't know what time it is
00:01:09 --> 00:01:10 wherever.
00:01:10 --> 00:01:13 >> But uh they know what time it is here.
00:01:13 --> 00:01:16 >> Well, it's Eastern summertime is what it
00:01:16 --> 00:01:19 is. And uh we are approaching the
00:01:19 --> 00:01:22 hottest time of the year in this part of
00:01:22 --> 00:01:24 the world. And I've been looking at the
00:01:24 --> 00:01:26 forecast, Fred, cuz uh right now it's
00:01:26 --> 00:01:30 not too bad. You know, low low to mid30s
00:01:30 --> 00:01:32 uh Celsius, which some people would be
00:01:32 --> 00:01:34 horrified by, but for us that's pretty
00:01:34 --> 00:01:37 normal. But next week,
00:01:37 --> 00:01:41 we are expected to hit a string of 40
00:01:41 --> 00:01:44 plus temperatures peaking at 45.
00:01:44 --> 00:01:46
00:01:46 --> 00:01:48 which is uh I for those who don't use
00:01:48 --> 00:01:52 the metric system that is 113 degrees
00:01:52 --> 00:01:53 Fahrenheit.
00:01:53 --> 00:01:56 So that's um that's what's coming up for
00:01:56 --> 00:01:57 us. I mean some people will hear this
00:01:58 --> 00:01:59 and it will already have happened and we
00:01:59 --> 00:02:00 won't be there next week and they'll
00:02:00 --> 00:02:02 wonder why. Well, that's the answer.
00:02:02 --> 00:02:06 We're just going to burn. We are burn.
00:02:06 --> 00:02:08 >> Uh yeah, horrific. It's been horrific.
00:02:08 --> 00:02:10 We had a massive storm here the other
00:02:10 --> 00:02:12 day and it uh ripped through the the
00:02:12 --> 00:02:14 city. I actually looked at it on the
00:02:14 --> 00:02:16 radar and it was only a really small
00:02:16 --> 00:02:17 cell,
00:02:17 --> 00:02:20 >> but gee, it was intense. It absolutely
00:02:20 --> 00:02:22 devastated the golf course. We lost a
00:02:22 --> 00:02:24 lot of trees and branches. Uh, but it
00:02:24 --> 00:02:27 happened all over town. So, yeah, we've
00:02:27 --> 00:02:29 had some uh pretty radical weather of
00:02:29 --> 00:02:30 late and now we're going to hit a heat
00:02:30 --> 00:02:32 wave and I don't I think we've got like
00:02:32 --> 00:02:36 six or seven days in a row at least over
00:02:36 --> 00:02:39 the old 100 Fahrenheit.
00:02:39 --> 00:02:40 So,
00:02:40 --> 00:02:41 >> there you go.
00:02:41 --> 00:02:43 >> Looking forward to that.
00:02:43 --> 00:02:44 Yes, I'm sure you are. It's a bit more
00:02:44 --> 00:02:46 temperate here on the coast, but uh we
00:02:46 --> 00:02:49 did have a day weight last Saturday
00:02:49 --> 00:02:52 where it it was 43 was the highest I I
00:02:52 --> 00:02:54 saw when I was out and about and it's
00:02:54 --> 00:02:56 been quite a few years quite a few years
00:02:56 --> 00:02:58 since we had a 45 here, but I do
00:02:58 --> 00:03:01 remember one some years ago and it Yeah,
00:03:01 --> 00:03:03 it was horrible. They actually forecast
00:03:03 --> 00:03:05 47 or 48 that day and it didn't get
00:03:05 --> 00:03:07 there thankfully.
00:03:07 --> 00:03:09 >> But um hopefully it won't do it again
00:03:09 --> 00:03:12 this year. But u it's been a long time
00:03:12 --> 00:03:14 since we've had temperatures like this.
00:03:14 --> 00:03:15 Um you
00:03:16 --> 00:03:17 for a few years in a row we didn't even
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19 make 40.
00:03:19 --> 00:03:20 But um yeah, we're we're getting at
00:03:20 --> 00:03:24 least four in a row next week.
00:03:24 --> 00:03:26 >> Anyway, um Oh, and the other thing
00:03:26 --> 00:03:28 that's been really exciting this week uh
00:03:28 --> 00:03:33 is um the auroral activity in you saw
00:03:33 --> 00:03:34 anything?
00:03:34 --> 00:03:36 >> No, I went out last night and didn't see
00:03:36 --> 00:03:38 anything. there's too much light and I I
00:03:38 --> 00:03:40 thought, "Oh, well, I go out of town."
00:03:40 --> 00:03:44 Uh, yeah. How far do I go? Where do I go
00:03:44 --> 00:03:45 to get a perch because it's pretty flat
00:03:46 --> 00:03:49 out here. Um, but I didn't see anything.
00:03:49 --> 00:03:52 There was one photo I took where it may
00:03:52 --> 00:03:54 there was a little bit of a purple sheen
00:03:54 --> 00:03:59 in the distance, maybe. I don't know.
00:03:59 --> 00:04:02 >> Last night, the night before was better.
00:04:02 --> 00:04:03 It was right.
00:04:03 --> 00:04:05 >> This morning, of course, I wake up to
00:04:05 --> 00:04:06 all these amazing photos that people
00:04:06 --> 00:04:09 have taken and they saw them as far
00:04:09 --> 00:04:11 north as southern Queensland. So,
00:04:11 --> 00:04:12 >> yeah, that's right.
00:04:12 --> 00:04:14 >> It's been a very intense solar storm
00:04:14 --> 00:04:17 that's um that's caused all this. But it
00:04:17 --> 00:04:18 looks like I missed the boat again,
00:04:18 --> 00:04:20 Fred.
00:04:20 --> 00:04:22 >> It's got to come with us to the Arctic
00:04:22 --> 00:04:22 sometime.
00:04:22 --> 00:04:25 >> Ah, look. Yeah. The other thing I saw
00:04:26 --> 00:04:29 this morning um was there's a um a trip
00:04:30 --> 00:04:32 to the Arctic this year to watch the
00:04:32 --> 00:04:35 solar eclipse. That'll be a big one. I
00:04:35 --> 00:04:37 think that's in um August.
00:04:37 --> 00:04:40 Is it? Or was that last year?
00:04:40 --> 00:04:45 >> Um no. Um there is I thought it was the
00:04:45 --> 00:04:46 Antarctic.
00:04:46 --> 00:04:46 >> Oh, it might be.
00:04:46 --> 00:04:49 >> Just kissed. Yeah, I think that's
00:04:49 --> 00:04:50 probably it. Yeah.
00:04:50 --> 00:04:53 >> Uh there's there is the there is an
00:04:53 --> 00:04:54 eclipse in August. It's the 12th of
00:04:54 --> 00:04:57 August. We'll be watching that from uh
00:04:57 --> 00:04:58 northern Spain.
00:04:58 --> 00:05:01 >> Um so we're taking one of M's tour
00:05:01 --> 00:05:03 groups up there to see the eclipse.
00:05:03 --> 00:05:04 >> Well, that's the one they were talking
00:05:04 --> 00:05:04 about.
00:05:04 --> 00:05:06 >> So that
00:05:06 --> 00:05:07 >> Yeah, I think the I think the one you're
00:05:07 --> 00:05:09 talking about was Antarctica and it's
00:05:09 --> 00:05:11 not the same eclipse. Anyway, never
00:05:11 --> 00:05:12 mind.
00:05:12 --> 00:05:14 >> Yeah, I can see the one the one I was
00:05:14 --> 00:05:16 thinking of is the one you're going to
00:05:16 --> 00:05:17 see in
00:05:17 --> 00:05:20 >> Okay. All right. Okay. might Yeah, might
00:05:20 --> 00:05:21 start in the Arctic.
00:05:21 --> 00:05:23 >> Yeah, it's crossing all the places we
00:05:23 --> 00:05:25 were visiting
00:05:25 --> 00:05:27 last year. So, we're all we're a year
00:05:27 --> 00:05:29 too early.
00:05:29 --> 00:05:30 Never mind.
00:05:30 --> 00:05:32 >> Always ahead of always ahead of the
00:05:32 --> 00:05:33 game. But
00:05:33 --> 00:05:34 >> yes, always get through Dodger before
00:05:34 --> 00:05:36 the disaster. That's what that's their
00:05:36 --> 00:05:38 philosophy.
00:05:38 --> 00:05:40 >> Um we've got a bit to get through. So,
00:05:40 --> 00:05:43 we'll we'll start with um this exciting
00:05:43 --> 00:05:45 news and that is an update on the
00:05:45 --> 00:05:47 Arteimus 2 mission. Now, we only
00:05:47 --> 00:05:50 mentioned that a week or so ago, uh that
00:05:50 --> 00:05:52 it was one of the big things happening
00:05:52 --> 00:05:55 in 2026. Uh it's starting to happen.
00:05:55 --> 00:05:57 They've started moving stuff.
00:05:57 --> 00:06:02 That That's right. Uh so um as we speak
00:06:02 --> 00:06:05 the uh Arteimus 2 stack, if that's what
00:06:06 --> 00:06:08 you call it, with the uh space launch
00:06:08 --> 00:06:10 system and its two solid rocket boosters
00:06:10 --> 00:06:14 and the uh service module, the the I
00:06:14 --> 00:06:16 nearly said Apollo there, the Orion
00:06:16 --> 00:06:20 capsule on top, uh is sitting on
00:06:20 --> 00:06:24 launchpad 39B, uh which is a very famous
00:06:24 --> 00:06:27 part of the launch facility at um at
00:06:27 --> 00:06:28 Cape Canaveral.
00:06:28 --> 00:06:31 So uh it yes it's made its journey from
00:06:31 --> 00:06:35 the uh vehicle assembly building uh to
00:06:35 --> 00:06:37 launchpad 39B
00:06:37 --> 00:06:39 which if I remember rightly is 6
00:06:39 --> 00:06:41 kilometers and it took 12 hours to do
00:06:41 --> 00:06:42 it.
00:06:42 --> 00:06:46 >> So half a kilometer per hour um uh is
00:06:46 --> 00:06:48 that right? Yes, that's right.
00:06:48 --> 00:06:51 >> Yeah, I think it's like 082 of a mile
00:06:51 --> 00:06:52 per hour or something like that.
00:06:52 --> 00:06:55 >> Yes, that's what I saw too. Um I think
00:06:56 --> 00:06:58 the when you average it out it it comes
00:06:58 --> 00:07:00 to half a kilometer an hour but I think
00:07:00 --> 00:07:02 it's a little bit more than that uh in
00:07:02 --> 00:07:04 terms of um you know the the maximum
00:07:04 --> 00:07:07 speed when it accelerated up to full
00:07:07 --> 00:07:10 speed 82 miles per hour. Uh so that is
00:07:10 --> 00:07:12 the start of the journey to the moon uh
00:07:12 --> 00:07:15 which is really quite nice. Um and
00:07:15 --> 00:07:18 Artimus 2 yes the mission uh will uh we
00:07:18 --> 00:07:22 hope uh actually launch within the next
00:07:22 --> 00:07:25 few months. What we do know is that
00:07:25 --> 00:07:30 there is to be um a wet uh what's what's
00:07:30 --> 00:07:34 called a a wet um test. Is that the
00:07:34 --> 00:07:37 right word? Uh a wet dress rehearsal.
00:07:37 --> 00:07:39 That's that's the correct term. Uh where
00:07:39 --> 00:07:43 it's fully fueled up uh and basically uh
00:07:44 --> 00:07:45 under goes a countdown, a dummy
00:07:45 --> 00:07:48 countdown. Uh everything as if you were
00:07:48 --> 00:07:50 about to launch, but you don't launch.
00:07:50 --> 00:07:53 Uh, and we're told that is not going to
00:07:53 --> 00:07:55 happen any later than basically next
00:07:55 --> 00:07:57 week our time or the week after next.
00:07:57 --> 00:08:01 Uh, which is February the 2nd is the
00:08:01 --> 00:08:04 date that we've got. So, um, that will
00:08:04 --> 00:08:06 be exciting to see how that how that
00:08:06 --> 00:08:09 goes, whether everything goes flawlessly
00:08:09 --> 00:08:11 or whether they find a gotcha and have
00:08:12 --> 00:08:13 to wheel it back to the vehicle assembly
00:08:13 --> 00:08:14 building which has happened.
00:08:14 --> 00:08:16 >> That's happened before, hasn't it?
00:08:16 --> 00:08:18 >> Yeah, it's it did with Arteimus one. In
00:08:18 --> 00:08:20 fact, I think it happened two or three
00:08:20 --> 00:08:23 times, didn't it? If I remember rightly,
00:08:23 --> 00:08:24 uh because they've got to get this right
00:08:24 --> 00:08:25 and they've got to, you know, it's got
00:08:25 --> 00:08:28 to be right and it will be. Uh is the
00:08:28 --> 00:08:29 bottom line. Yeah.
00:08:29 --> 00:08:32 >> Yes, indeed. But it's exciting. Um I
00:08:32 --> 00:08:33 think it has been delayed. It was
00:08:33 --> 00:08:36 supposed to go last year, wasn't it?
00:08:36 --> 00:08:38 >> Uh that's correct. Yes. Uh indeed,
00:08:38 --> 00:08:41 that's true. It's I mean that you know
00:08:41 --> 00:08:43 the whole project has uh suffered
00:08:43 --> 00:08:47 delays. Uh there is one bit of good news
00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 though which has come out of
00:08:50 --> 00:08:53 uh Congress. I think I should get my
00:08:53 --> 00:08:55 terms right. But the but the NASA
00:08:55 --> 00:08:59 funding uh for next year or for this
00:08:59 --> 00:09:03 year uh seems to be uh much more secure
00:09:03 --> 00:09:05 than was previously thought. Some of the
00:09:05 --> 00:09:07 big cuts that were being planned have
00:09:07 --> 00:09:10 sort of evaporated. Uh and I think the
00:09:10 --> 00:09:13 funding level for NASA this year uh is
00:09:13 --> 00:09:15 not that much. I think it's on a par
00:09:15 --> 00:09:18 with what they received last year. Um uh
00:09:18 --> 00:09:20 notwithstanding the fact that yes, the
00:09:20 --> 00:09:22 Mars sample return mission has has still
00:09:22 --> 00:09:24 been axed from that budget, but that
00:09:24 --> 00:09:27 leaves room for some other things to be
00:09:27 --> 00:09:29 funded and no doubt there'll be further
00:09:29 --> 00:09:32 talks on how we get these canisters of
00:09:32 --> 00:09:35 uh Martian soil back from Mars before we
00:09:35 --> 00:09:36 all die.
00:09:36 --> 00:09:37 >> Yes.
00:09:37 --> 00:09:41 >> Yeah. Well, hope now let's hope somebody
00:09:41 --> 00:09:43 um riding a trail bike up there one day
00:09:43 --> 00:09:45 comes across it and goes, "Oi, what's
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 this? What's this? Who left this here?"
00:09:48 --> 00:09:51 Um but yeah, uh it's good news. Uh and
00:09:51 --> 00:09:53 we should mention the astronauts
00:09:54 --> 00:09:57 involved, Reed Wiseman, V Glover,
00:09:57 --> 00:10:02 Christina Ko, uh and they're all from uh
00:10:02 --> 00:10:04 NASA Americans. And then you've got uh
00:10:04 --> 00:10:06 from the Canadian Space Agency, Jeremy
00:10:06 --> 00:10:10 Hansen. And uh they'll be journeying out
00:10:10 --> 00:10:13 and around and back uh over a period of
00:10:13 --> 00:10:15 10 days, which is about the same length
00:10:15 --> 00:10:18 as the average Apollo mission. Although
00:10:18 --> 00:10:20 there was one mission that only went 5
00:10:20 --> 00:10:23 days because well, they couldn't stop
00:10:23 --> 00:10:24 because they
00:10:24 --> 00:10:25 >> Yeah, that's right.
00:10:25 --> 00:10:26 >> They had a bit of
00:10:26 --> 00:10:28 >> that was another story.
00:10:28 --> 00:10:30 >> But it's true. It's reminiscent of
00:10:30 --> 00:10:34 Apollo 8. uh you know by Christmas Day,
00:10:34 --> 00:10:35 wasn't it?
00:10:35 --> 00:10:37 >> Uh Christmas Eve, I think. I can't
00:10:37 --> 00:10:37 remember.
00:10:37 --> 00:10:38 >> Something like Christmas Eve. I think it
00:10:38 --> 00:10:39 was Christmas Eve. Yeah.
00:10:40 --> 00:10:40 >> Yeah.
00:10:40 --> 00:10:44 >> 1968. Um um but but what's different
00:10:44 --> 00:10:46 though is I think their orbits around
00:10:46 --> 00:10:49 the backside of the moon will be uh at a
00:10:49 --> 00:10:52 higher distance from the lunar surface
00:10:52 --> 00:10:55 than we saw with the Apollo mission. So
00:10:55 --> 00:10:57 uh these astronauts will be uh will hold
00:10:58 --> 00:11:01 a record as being the furthest humans.
00:11:01 --> 00:11:03 the furthest that humans have been from
00:11:03 --> 00:11:05 planet Earth after at the end of their
00:11:05 --> 00:11:06 mission. So
00:11:06 --> 00:11:08 >> yeah, that record currently held by
00:11:08 --> 00:11:10 Michael Collins.
00:11:10 --> 00:11:11 >> That is correct. Yes.
00:11:11 --> 00:11:14 >> Yes. I think in fact uh there's a famous
00:11:14 --> 00:11:16 photo I think I've mentioned before that
00:11:16 --> 00:11:19 Michael Collins took which showed the
00:11:19 --> 00:11:21 moon where Neil Armstrong and Buzz
00:11:21 --> 00:11:23 Aldrin were on the surface at the time
00:11:23 --> 00:11:25 and Earth in the background and it
00:11:25 --> 00:11:28 basically said every human being that's
00:11:28 --> 00:11:31 ever existed is in this photo except
00:11:31 --> 00:11:33 one.
00:11:33 --> 00:11:34 >> I think that's great.
00:11:34 --> 00:11:36 >> That was Yeah.
00:11:36 --> 00:11:38 >> Yeah. I mean you think
00:11:38 --> 00:11:40 >> to feel lonely.
00:11:40 --> 00:11:42 >> It's pretty Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty deep
00:11:42 --> 00:11:45 when you take a photo and someone says
00:11:45 --> 00:11:46 to you, "Lady, do you realize you're the
00:11:46 --> 00:11:49 only human human being in history that's
00:11:49 --> 00:11:52 not in that photograph?"
00:11:52 --> 00:11:54 I reckon that's uh that's incredible.
00:11:54 --> 00:11:56 Yeah. Uh of course, people come back and
00:11:56 --> 00:11:57 say, "Oh, but what about the people on
00:11:57 --> 00:11:58 the other side of the planet that
00:11:58 --> 00:11:59 weren't in the picture?" Well, they were
00:11:59 --> 00:12:01 on the planet, so they were in the
00:12:01 --> 00:12:01 picture.
00:12:01 --> 00:12:03 >> Yeah, we we knew.
00:12:03 --> 00:12:04 >> We could use a bit of creative license.
00:12:04 --> 00:12:05 Sure. We
00:12:05 --> 00:12:06 >> Yes, that's right.
00:12:06 --> 00:12:07 >> That's right.
00:12:07 --> 00:12:10 >> Um we should also mention why why this
00:12:10 --> 00:12:12 mission is happening. And it's it's it's
00:12:12 --> 00:12:17 based around putting long-term humans or
00:12:17 --> 00:12:19 long a long-term human presence on the
00:12:19 --> 00:12:21 lunar surface, but the ultimate goal is
00:12:21 --> 00:12:24 to create that springboard for missions
00:12:24 --> 00:12:28 to Mars. So it it's it's part of a
00:12:28 --> 00:12:30 long-term venture, I suppose.
00:12:30 --> 00:12:32 Yeah, I think actually that you know
00:12:32 --> 00:12:36 it's got an immediacy about it that um
00:12:36 --> 00:12:40 um is makes the Mars issue
00:12:40 --> 00:12:44 uh perhaps uh not reducing its
00:12:44 --> 00:12:48 significance but um but giving us a good
00:12:48 --> 00:12:50 you know a good reason to be on the moon
00:12:50 --> 00:12:52 anyway and that's the the possible
00:12:52 --> 00:12:53 resources that are on the moon.
00:12:53 --> 00:12:56 >> Yeah. Plus, there's still a geopolitical
00:12:56 --> 00:12:58 uh aspect of this, exactly as there was
00:12:58 --> 00:13:02 in the 1960s. Um, the Americans are very
00:13:02 --> 00:13:04 keen to get there before Chinese
00:13:04 --> 00:13:05 tyonauts walk on the lunar surface,
00:13:05 --> 00:13:08 which they're certainly planning to do
00:13:08 --> 00:13:11 by 2030. That is what we hear. But
00:13:11 --> 00:13:13 you're right. Um, I mean, Arteimus 2 is
00:13:13 --> 00:13:16 a is a precursor to Arteimus 3, which is
00:13:16 --> 00:13:17 likely to be not next year, but the
00:13:17 --> 00:13:19 following year. There's still a lot of
00:13:19 --> 00:13:21 work to do on that. uh where four
00:13:21 --> 00:13:23 astronauts will land on the lunar
00:13:23 --> 00:13:26 surface. And that in a in a sense is the
00:13:26 --> 00:13:28 perhaps the opening gambit for a
00:13:28 --> 00:13:30 permanent uh or a semi-permanent human
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33 presence on Mars. And yes, you're right.
00:13:33 --> 00:13:36 Eventually that will lead to we hope uh
00:13:36 --> 00:13:39 expertise that we can gather that will
00:13:39 --> 00:13:41 take astronauts to Mars, not to colonize
00:13:42 --> 00:13:45 it, but to explore it in a in a suitably
00:13:45 --> 00:13:46 ethical way.
00:13:46 --> 00:13:49 >> You you hope not to colonize it.
00:13:49 --> 00:13:52 >> Yeah. Well, that's right.
00:13:52 --> 00:13:55 >> Okay. Um, yeah, very exciting news and
00:13:56 --> 00:13:58 hopefully all will go well with the uh
00:13:58 --> 00:14:00 with the tests. Uh, in fact, they're
00:14:00 --> 00:14:02 talking about doing it more than once if
00:14:02 --> 00:14:05 they've got time. Um, but yeah, it'll be
00:14:05 --> 00:14:08 uh it'll be and it'll it'll bring about
00:14:08 --> 00:14:11 the same level of excitement, I suppose,
00:14:11 --> 00:14:13 that we enjoyed in the 60s with the
00:14:13 --> 00:14:14 Apollo missions because you got a whole
00:14:14 --> 00:14:16 new generation that weren't around to
00:14:16 --> 00:14:19 see that. And so this is all fresh and
00:14:19 --> 00:14:20 new for them.
00:14:20 --> 00:14:22 >> I reckon that that's right.
00:14:22 --> 00:14:26 >> That will revive the uh the interest in
00:14:26 --> 00:14:29 uh space science uh as well. I suppose
00:14:29 --> 00:14:31 uh if you'd like to read all about it,
00:14:31 --> 00:14:34 you can log on to Scitec Daily, but I
00:14:34 --> 00:14:35 think you'll probably find there's
00:14:35 --> 00:14:37 plenty of news on plenty of platforms,
00:14:37 --> 00:14:40 including the NASA website. This is
00:14:40 --> 00:14:41 Space Nuts with Andrew Dunley and
00:14:41 --> 00:14:45 Professor Fred Watson.
00:14:45 --> 00:14:46 Let's take a break from the show so I
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00:16:04 --> 00:16:07 3 2 1
00:16:07 --> 00:16:08 >> Space nuts.
00:16:08 --> 00:16:12 >> Okay, Fred. Uh, this weird story has,
00:16:12 --> 00:16:15 uh, been published in a in a paper about
00:16:15 --> 00:16:18 a nebula that is demonstrating something
00:16:18 --> 00:16:21 that at this point in time is
00:16:21 --> 00:16:22 inexplicable.
00:16:22 --> 00:16:24 Uh, they know what it is,
00:16:24 --> 00:16:26 >> they don't know why it is.
00:16:26 --> 00:16:29 >> Yeah. Exactly. And so this story is
00:16:29 --> 00:16:32 about perhaps one of the most famous um
00:16:32 --> 00:16:35 celestial objects in the northern sky.
00:16:35 --> 00:16:38 Uh an object called the ring nebula. Uh
00:16:38 --> 00:16:41 because it's shaped like a ring. Uh it's
00:16:41 --> 00:16:43 in the constellation of Lyra. Uh one
00:16:43 --> 00:16:45 that um certainly I've been aware of
00:16:45 --> 00:16:47 ever since I first became interested in
00:16:47 --> 00:16:49 astronomy in the 1950s.
00:16:49 --> 00:16:54 Um it is a planetary nebula and that is
00:16:54 --> 00:16:56 a bit of a misnomer term. It was one
00:16:56 --> 00:16:57 coined by William Hershel in the early
00:16:57 --> 00:17:00 1800s because these things kind of look
00:17:00 --> 00:17:02 like planets, but they're nothing to do
00:17:02 --> 00:17:03 with planets. They're not in the solar
00:17:03 --> 00:17:05 system. They're clouds of gas. And we
00:17:05 --> 00:17:07 now know that they are the the bubbles
00:17:07 --> 00:17:11 of gas that are puffed off by uh uh
00:17:11 --> 00:17:14 giant stars in their old age. Um and we
00:17:14 --> 00:17:16 also know that the sun will go through a
00:17:16 --> 00:17:17 phase where eventually it's surrounded
00:17:17 --> 00:17:20 by a a nebula, a planetary nebula very
00:17:20 --> 00:17:24 like the ring nebula. Uh so um we know a
00:17:24 --> 00:17:28 lot about that nebula and um what's
00:17:28 --> 00:17:29 there's a sort of slightly personal
00:17:29 --> 00:17:32 aspect to this story because a uh a
00:17:32 --> 00:17:34 telescope that I worked on quite
00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 commonly in the 1990s uh the William
00:17:37 --> 00:17:40 Hershel telescope uh which uh was then
00:17:40 --> 00:17:42 operated by the UK I think it's now the
00:17:42 --> 00:17:45 UK and some other
00:17:45 --> 00:17:49 uh sorry I'm going to cancel this can't
00:17:49 --> 00:17:51 take that call don't know whether you
00:17:51 --> 00:17:54 heard Uh my phone is ringing.
00:17:54 --> 00:17:56 >> It's ringing in my my earphones. Sorry.
00:17:56 --> 00:17:59 Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. It's all right. I'll
00:17:59 --> 00:18:02 call them back shortly. Um it's uh it's
00:18:02 --> 00:18:04 a
00:18:04 --> 00:18:06 uh the telescope that uh was built in
00:18:06 --> 00:18:10 the 19 late 1980s, commissioned I think
00:18:10 --> 00:18:13 around about 1990. Uh as I said, I
00:18:13 --> 00:18:16 worked on it in the in the 1990s. A 4.2
00:18:16 --> 00:18:19 2meter telescope which is situated uh at
00:18:19 --> 00:18:23 a place called El Rock de los Machos
00:18:23 --> 00:18:25 which is the name of a peak in the
00:18:25 --> 00:18:28 island of La Palma. It's a volcanic peak
00:18:28 --> 00:18:30 uh and there is a major global
00:18:30 --> 00:18:34 observatory there. Um it's uh it's as I
00:18:34 --> 00:18:37 said 4.2 m telescope. Uh I think it's
00:18:37 --> 00:18:39 now jointly operated by a number of uh
00:18:39 --> 00:18:41 different nations. Uh it was built by
00:18:41 --> 00:18:45 the Brits uh and uh was for a while
00:18:45 --> 00:18:46 something like the third biggest
00:18:46 --> 00:18:48 telescope in the northern hemisphere I
00:18:48 --> 00:18:53 think. Um it uh uh has an instrument on
00:18:53 --> 00:18:55 it. Uh which is sort of let me guess.
00:18:55 --> 00:18:55 Let me guess.
00:18:56 --> 00:18:57 >> Descendant.
00:18:57 --> 00:18:59 >> It's a saxophone.
00:18:59 --> 00:19:00 >> Sorry couldn't help.
00:19:00 --> 00:19:03 >> It's an E flat trombone. Uh
00:19:04 --> 00:19:08 it's a it's a um an instrument which is
00:19:08 --> 00:19:09 I was going to say it's a descendant of
00:19:09 --> 00:19:12 a let me rephrase that. It is an optical
00:19:12 --> 00:19:15 instrument. Uh which is a descendant of
00:19:15 --> 00:19:17 uh something I was very deeply involved
00:19:18 --> 00:19:20 with when I was there. Um I was project
00:19:20 --> 00:19:21 scientist for a thing called a
00:19:21 --> 00:19:24 spectrograph which is um uh the device
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27 that splits up light uh and lets us see
00:19:27 --> 00:19:30 that barcode of information in the light
00:19:30 --> 00:19:32 of a star or galaxy or indeed a
00:19:32 --> 00:19:35 planetary nebula. Uh but the new version
00:19:35 --> 00:19:37 of that I we were using optical fibers
00:19:37 --> 00:19:40 uh to to look at individual objects. uh
00:19:40 --> 00:19:43 the new version uh uses optical fibers
00:19:43 --> 00:19:46 again but in such a way that you can
00:19:46 --> 00:19:48 look at an object like this nebula and
00:19:48 --> 00:19:51 for every point on the image you can get
00:19:51 --> 00:19:54 a spectrum uh and we uh it's a a
00:19:54 --> 00:19:56 technology which is known as integral
00:19:56 --> 00:19:58 field spectroscopy
00:19:58 --> 00:20:00 uh and uh they have built something
00:20:00 --> 00:20:03 called a LEU which is a large integral
00:20:03 --> 00:20:06 field unit for the weave instrument
00:20:06 --> 00:20:10 which is the WH enhanced area velocity
00:20:10 --> 00:20:13 Explorer. Uh, great stuff. And the
00:20:13 --> 00:20:15 bottom line is that the to get to the
00:20:15 --> 00:20:17 end of this long rambling story. This is
00:20:18 --> 00:20:19 a brand new instrument that is just
00:20:20 --> 00:20:23 being tested. And what better object to
00:20:23 --> 00:20:25 test it on than this lovely northern
00:20:25 --> 00:20:28 hemisphere nebula, the Ring Nebula. And
00:20:28 --> 00:20:31 so that's what they've done. a group of
00:20:31 --> 00:20:33 scientists mostly I think from the UK uh
00:20:33 --> 00:20:35 they've used the ring nebula just to
00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 make sure that the weave spectrograph
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 works properly and does everything they
00:20:40 --> 00:20:42 want it to and they've uncovered a
00:20:42 --> 00:20:45 complete surprise uh that has blown
00:20:45 --> 00:20:47 everybody's mind because nobody
00:20:47 --> 00:20:49 understands it and that is exactly as
00:20:49 --> 00:20:52 you've said is an iron bar. Now, um,
00:20:52 --> 00:20:54 when you talk about a bar in astronomy,
00:20:54 --> 00:20:56 it's not something you prop yourself up
00:20:56 --> 00:20:59 against to, um, get over all your
00:20:59 --> 00:21:01 problems. Uh, although you can do that
00:21:01 --> 00:21:05 if you want. Uh, it's it's uh, usually
00:21:05 --> 00:21:06 it's a
00:21:06 --> 00:21:09 a structure, a linear structure. Um,
00:21:09 --> 00:21:12 often made of stars. Uh, galaxies often
00:21:12 --> 00:21:14 have a bar across the middle. We call
00:21:14 --> 00:21:16 them barred spiral galaxies. And that
00:21:16 --> 00:21:18 bar is made of stars which are
00:21:18 --> 00:21:22 circulating in a in a very elliptical
00:21:22 --> 00:21:24 orbit around the center of the galaxy.
00:21:24 --> 00:21:27 So it looks like a essentially a solid
00:21:27 --> 00:21:29 bar of material. It's actually made of
00:21:29 --> 00:21:32 stars. So the bar in the ring ring
00:21:32 --> 00:21:34 nebula is not made of stars. It's made
00:21:34 --> 00:21:38 of gas. Uh but what is interesting is
00:21:38 --> 00:21:41 that that gas is highly ionized. That
00:21:41 --> 00:21:45 means energized uh version of iron. So
00:21:45 --> 00:21:50 this is a plasma of iron atoms. Uh and
00:21:50 --> 00:21:51 um one of the interesting comments that
00:21:52 --> 00:21:55 comes out of the the data um that's been
00:21:55 --> 00:21:58 released on this on this uh piece of
00:21:58 --> 00:22:00 research is that the total mass of the
00:22:00 --> 00:22:04 iron that's in that bar is comparable to
00:22:04 --> 00:22:07 the mass of Mars. Uh that is quite
00:22:07 --> 00:22:09 significant. Uh and I love this comment.
00:22:09 --> 00:22:12 its length is about equal to 500 times
00:22:12 --> 00:22:15 the orbit of Pluto around the sun. Uh
00:22:15 --> 00:22:17 and so it's, you know, if you imagine
00:22:17 --> 00:22:19 Pluto's orbit, multiply it by 500 times
00:22:20 --> 00:22:21 and then take its diameter, that's how
00:22:21 --> 00:22:24 big this iron bar is. Uh so it's not an
00:22:24 --> 00:22:26 iron bar in the sense that something you
00:22:26 --> 00:22:28 can pick up and hit somebody on the head
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 with if you're that way inclined, and
00:22:30 --> 00:22:33 I'm certainly not. uh uh but it's an
00:22:33 --> 00:22:35 iron bar in the sense of a barred
00:22:35 --> 00:22:39 structure in what is completely normally
00:22:39 --> 00:22:41 expected to be quite spherically
00:22:41 --> 00:22:43 symmetrical because this is a bubble of
00:22:43 --> 00:22:45 material. The ring nebula is a bubble of
00:22:45 --> 00:22:48 gas and yet here in the middle of it is
00:22:48 --> 00:22:51 this linear feature a bar uh of made of
00:22:52 --> 00:22:55 highly ionized iron atoms. So as you
00:22:55 --> 00:22:57 said at the beginning Andrew the big
00:22:57 --> 00:22:59 question now is where did it come from?
00:22:59 --> 00:23:02 >> Yeah. What? Why is it there? What what
00:23:02 --> 00:23:04 happened to create that? Because it's it
00:23:04 --> 00:23:05 sounds like it's it's unique. There's
00:23:06 --> 00:23:08 nothing else like it yet bound.
00:23:08 --> 00:23:10 >> Not that we know of. That's right. But
00:23:10 --> 00:23:12 nobody's looked for a lion in Yeah. Uh
00:23:12 --> 00:23:16 in the center of these these objects. So
00:23:16 --> 00:23:21 um I think uh there is, you know, a a
00:23:21 --> 00:23:25 sort of well as the as the article we
00:23:25 --> 00:23:27 might quote because this is from our old
00:23:27 --> 00:23:29 friend Universe Today. It's by Evan
00:23:29 --> 00:23:36 Goff. Uh the um the bottom line is that
00:23:36 --> 00:23:38 uh there are two uh let me let me let me
00:23:38 --> 00:23:40 just read because this is uh this is
00:23:40 --> 00:23:41 quite nicely put. There are two broad
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44 exploration explanations for this iron
00:23:44 --> 00:23:46 bar. One is that it reveals something
00:23:46 --> 00:23:48 new about how the central star and
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50 that's the star that it eventually gave
00:23:50 --> 00:23:53 rise to the nebula. How the central star
00:23:53 --> 00:23:55 ejected its material. Uh the other is
00:23:55 --> 00:23:58 that the bar, the iron bar is the
00:23:58 --> 00:24:01 remnant of a planet that was vaporized
00:24:01 --> 00:24:03 and destroyed by the star as it expanded
00:24:03 --> 00:24:06 into a red giant. That's a really really
00:24:06 --> 00:24:09 interesting uh conjecture that what
00:24:09 --> 00:24:11 we're seeing is perhaps the um the
00:24:11 --> 00:24:16 remnant that the vaporized core of a
00:24:16 --> 00:24:18 planet, perhaps a rocky planet that was
00:24:18 --> 00:24:20 in orbit around the star uh when it
00:24:20 --> 00:24:23 turned into a red giant. uh it was
00:24:23 --> 00:24:25 vaporized and what we are left with is
00:24:25 --> 00:24:30 this streak of uh highly ionized gas uh
00:24:30 --> 00:24:33 highly energized gas uh made of iron
00:24:33 --> 00:24:35 across the middle of the nebula. Really
00:24:35 --> 00:24:38 really interesting uh uh really
00:24:38 --> 00:24:40 interesting um results there.
00:24:40 --> 00:24:42 >> Yeah, absolutely. And and the pictures
00:24:42 --> 00:24:45 that they've gathered are spectacular.
00:24:45 --> 00:24:46 It looks amazing.
00:24:46 --> 00:24:48 >> Yeah. Yeah, it does. It's quite
00:24:48 --> 00:24:50 extraordinary. Uh there's a quote from
00:24:50 --> 00:24:54 Janet Drew who I won't say I know but
00:24:54 --> 00:24:55 I'd certainly have met her a few times
00:24:55 --> 00:24:57 back in the day. Uh she's one of the
00:24:57 --> 00:25:00 studies co-authors uh University College
00:25:00 --> 00:25:03 London uh said says we this is in a
00:25:04 --> 00:25:06 press release we definitely need to know
00:25:06 --> 00:25:08 more particularly whether any other
00:25:08 --> 00:25:10 chemical elements coexist with the newly
00:25:10 --> 00:25:13 detected iron as this would probably
00:25:13 --> 00:25:15 tell us the right class of model to
00:25:15 --> 00:25:18 pursue. In other words, um whether it
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20 was ejected from the star or a vaporized
00:25:20 --> 00:25:22 planet. Uh right now we're missing this
00:25:22 --> 00:25:24 important information. So, yep. Really
00:25:24 --> 00:25:26 um really interesting stuff.
00:25:26 --> 00:25:28 >> Yeah. And now that they've found it,
00:25:28 --> 00:25:30 they know what to look for and they may
00:25:30 --> 00:25:34 well find that this has happened quite a
00:25:34 --> 00:25:35 few times that you might even have one
00:25:35 --> 00:25:38 in your closet. You never know.
00:25:38 --> 00:25:41 What's what uh is interesting to me and
00:25:41 --> 00:25:44 there's a it's a tenuous link here but
00:25:44 --> 00:25:46 um perhaps the most famous planetary
00:25:46 --> 00:25:48 nebula in the southern hemisphere and
00:25:48 --> 00:25:50 it's one that is very familiar. It's
00:25:50 --> 00:25:53 called the Helix Nebula. Beautiful.
00:25:53 --> 00:25:57 Again, a ring-like structure. Uh we just
00:25:57 --> 00:25:59 uh yesterday I think or the day before
00:25:59 --> 00:26:01 received some new images of that from
00:26:01 --> 00:26:04 the James Webb uh space telescope which
00:26:04 --> 00:26:07 are absolutely staggering. uh they show
00:26:07 --> 00:26:10 structure on the sort of inner edge of
00:26:10 --> 00:26:12 this bubble of gas which is what the
00:26:12 --> 00:26:16 Helix Nebula is as well. Uh which is
00:26:16 --> 00:26:19 it's it's it's unfathomable almost. What
00:26:19 --> 00:26:21 we're seeing is little bubbles of gas
00:26:21 --> 00:26:23 being stretched out into these these
00:26:23 --> 00:26:25 myriad of fingers. It almost looks like
00:26:25 --> 00:26:27 a grassy paddock. It is quite
00:26:27 --> 00:26:28 extraordinary. It's well worth a look if
00:26:28 --> 00:26:31 you can find it, Andrew. Uh and I
00:26:31 --> 00:26:33 encourage our listeners and viewers to
00:26:33 --> 00:26:35 look for the James Webb telescope image
00:26:35 --> 00:26:38 of the ring of the Helix Nebula uh just
00:26:38 --> 00:26:39 released.
00:26:39 --> 00:26:40 >> Yeah.
00:26:40 --> 00:26:41 >> Keep an eye on that. But if you uh want
00:26:42 --> 00:26:44 to read about this particular iron bar
00:26:44 --> 00:26:48 discovery, you can read it uh on what is
00:26:48 --> 00:26:50 uh the universe today.com website or you
00:26:50 --> 00:26:53 can go to the paper which was published
00:26:53 --> 00:26:55 in the
00:26:55 --> 00:26:57 Royal Astronomical Society monthly
00:26:57 --> 00:27:00 notices of you could say it the other
00:27:00 --> 00:27:02 way around and you'd be right. Uh yeah.
00:27:02 --> 00:27:04 Um,
00:27:04 --> 00:27:06 but the pictures are spectacular in
00:27:06 --> 00:27:08 themselves, but the mystery itself is uh
00:27:08 --> 00:27:11 is quite um quite extraordinary. You're
00:27:11 --> 00:27:13 listening to Space Nuts with Andrew
00:27:13 --> 00:27:19 Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.
00:27:19 --> 00:27:21 >> Okay, we checked all four systems and
00:27:21 --> 00:27:21 being with
00:27:22 --> 00:27:23 >> Space Nuts.
00:27:23 --> 00:27:27 >> Our final yarn, Fred, uh takes us into
00:27:27 --> 00:27:30 uh a bit of a mystery land. um something
00:27:30 --> 00:27:32 deadly that could be important in the
00:27:32 --> 00:27:35 origin of life. Uh and you know if you
00:27:35 --> 00:27:38 would ask people what is deadly to human
00:27:38 --> 00:27:41 life and life in general um you would
00:27:41 --> 00:27:45 come up with a few well-known um things
00:27:46 --> 00:27:49 including hydrogen cyanide and and that
00:27:49 --> 00:27:52 is the topic of the discussion.
00:27:52 --> 00:27:55 >> Yeah, that's right. Um now I pre I
00:27:55 --> 00:27:56 preface this discussion with something
00:27:56 --> 00:27:58 that you and all our listeners know
00:27:58 --> 00:28:00 already and that is that I'm no chemist
00:28:00 --> 00:28:04 and certainly no um biochemist but um
00:28:04 --> 00:28:07 this is a yeah it's a really interesting
00:28:07 --> 00:28:10 uh study um that I think comes from
00:28:10 --> 00:28:15 Swedish uh Swedish scientists uh and
00:28:15 --> 00:28:18 it's it's about
00:28:18 --> 00:28:22 hydro hydrogen cyanide as a molecule HCN
00:28:22 --> 00:28:25 it's a chemical ical formula um which we
00:28:25 --> 00:28:28 know occurs uh commonly in space. It's
00:28:28 --> 00:28:30 one of these molecules that seems to be
00:28:30 --> 00:28:33 readily formed um in the co uh the
00:28:33 --> 00:28:35 coldness of space. So we find it for
00:28:36 --> 00:28:39 example in comets um and that's one of
00:28:39 --> 00:28:41 the reasons why excuse me there was
00:28:41 --> 00:28:44 panic in 1910 um when it was known that
00:28:44 --> 00:28:47 there was hydrogen cyanide in the tail
00:28:47 --> 00:28:49 of comet Halley and the earth was going
00:28:49 --> 00:28:51 to pass through the tail and so um I
00:28:52 --> 00:28:55 think all these quack you know quack
00:28:55 --> 00:28:56 chemists
00:28:56 --> 00:28:59 made up their their potions to stop you
00:28:59 --> 00:29:01 being poisoned by hydrogen cyanide fact
00:29:01 --> 00:29:04 that it's you know very very rarified
00:29:04 --> 00:29:06 gas wasn't something that impinged on
00:29:06 --> 00:29:08 their on their consciousness. They just
00:29:08 --> 00:29:11 made money out of it. Anyway, it's in
00:29:11 --> 00:29:14 comets. Uh it's in clouds of
00:29:14 --> 00:29:17 interstellar gas and dust. Uh it's also
00:29:17 --> 00:29:19 present in large amounts actually as an
00:29:19 --> 00:29:23 ice in the atmosphere of Titan, Saturn's
00:29:23 --> 00:29:24 moon, Titan.
00:29:24 --> 00:29:28 >> Uh and um it's um not only on the
00:29:28 --> 00:29:30 atmosphere, but it condenses out on
00:29:30 --> 00:29:33 deposits onto the surface as well. And
00:29:33 --> 00:29:36 so the basically the
00:29:36 --> 00:29:37 >> Don't lick the rocks, kids.
00:29:37 --> 00:29:39 >> Don't lick the rocks. Don't lick the
00:29:39 --> 00:29:39 rocks. In
00:29:39 --> 00:29:41 >> fact, don't and don't breathe the
00:29:41 --> 00:29:43 atmosphere.
00:29:44 --> 00:29:46 >> Uh which you wouldn't want to anyway um
00:29:46 --> 00:29:48 because it's pretty horrible. But um the
00:29:48 --> 00:29:52 so so that has led scientists to look
00:29:52 --> 00:29:56 more closely at the chemistry uh and
00:29:56 --> 00:30:00 sort of physics as well of of hydrogen
00:30:00 --> 00:30:03 cyanide. And in particular, what they've
00:30:03 --> 00:30:07 found is that it has essentially
00:30:07 --> 00:30:11 electric electrostatic properties that
00:30:11 --> 00:30:14 um may encourage
00:30:14 --> 00:30:17 uh it to assist with the formation of
00:30:18 --> 00:30:20 other molecules. It's apparently got
00:30:20 --> 00:30:24 really strong electric fields at the
00:30:24 --> 00:30:28 ends of a a solid crystal of hydrogen
00:30:28 --> 00:30:31 cyanide. Um, and what they're saying is
00:30:31 --> 00:30:34 that that might be a property that would
00:30:34 --> 00:30:38 allow this deadly chemical nevertheless
00:30:38 --> 00:30:42 to assist in the, you know, the the
00:30:42 --> 00:30:46 building up of uh prebiotic molecules,
00:30:46 --> 00:30:49 the the organic molecules that we think
00:30:49 --> 00:30:53 um are basically the uh the building
00:30:53 --> 00:30:55 blocks of life. M
00:30:55 --> 00:30:57 >> um
00:30:57 --> 00:31:02 it's so so it's um yeah it's really uh a
00:31:02 --> 00:31:06 really interesting uh piece of work that
00:31:06 --> 00:31:09 they are uh that these these authors
00:31:09 --> 00:31:13 have highlighted that maybe uh this this
00:31:13 --> 00:31:15 thing that to us is anathema hydrogen
00:31:15 --> 00:31:18 cyanoid maybe it's the reason why we're
00:31:18 --> 00:31:20 here uh because of reactions that might
00:31:20 --> 00:31:23 have taken place and of course that has
00:31:23 --> 00:31:26 um some interesting uh implications for
00:31:26 --> 00:31:29 Titan if it's common place on Titan.
00:31:29 --> 00:31:32 Titan's a world that we think could
00:31:32 --> 00:31:37 harbor life uh maybe in its uh under ice
00:31:37 --> 00:31:39 oceans. It's an ice world like many of
00:31:39 --> 00:31:40 the other uh satellites of the outer
00:31:40 --> 00:31:43 planets, but also has these seas and
00:31:43 --> 00:31:46 lakes of liquid ethane and methane. Um,
00:31:46 --> 00:31:48 you know, maybe there there are
00:31:48 --> 00:31:51 reactions going on in there that involve
00:31:51 --> 00:31:54 hydrogen cyanide that might have created
00:31:54 --> 00:31:57 uh uh organisms that use these um
00:31:57 --> 00:32:00 basically these uh liqufied natural
00:32:00 --> 00:32:03 gases, which is what they are as their
00:32:03 --> 00:32:06 working fluid. Who knows? Well, and and
00:32:06 --> 00:32:07 that's something we've talked about
00:32:07 --> 00:32:09 before because we, you know, when you we
00:32:09 --> 00:32:11 think of life, we we look at ourselves,
00:32:11 --> 00:32:13 carbon based life forms that breathe
00:32:13 --> 00:32:17 oxygen and, you know, and have a heavy
00:32:17 --> 00:32:20 reliance on water, but why does it just
00:32:20 --> 00:32:24 have to be that? Why why can't life
00:32:24 --> 00:32:26 develop in an environment that we would
00:32:26 --> 00:32:31 find toxic and well, basically hostile?
00:32:31 --> 00:32:34 But if you can create the catalyst for
00:32:34 --> 00:32:36 life on a world like Titan, why couldn't
00:32:36 --> 00:32:39 it develop independently as a a totally
00:32:39 --> 00:32:40 different life form?
00:32:40 --> 00:32:42 >> Something quite different. That's right.
00:32:42 --> 00:32:43 And um you know, that raises the
00:32:43 --> 00:32:45 question, how do you recognize that it's
00:32:45 --> 00:32:48 actually life if it's so different from
00:32:48 --> 00:32:51 from our our living organisms, too?
00:32:51 --> 00:32:53 >> Well, we don't really have a proper
00:32:53 --> 00:32:54 definition of what life is.
00:32:54 --> 00:32:58 >> No. No. And you you know some people
00:32:58 --> 00:33:02 argue that a virus isn't a life form.
00:33:02 --> 00:33:03 >> Yeah.
00:33:03 --> 00:33:07 >> So is is a is a virus life?
00:33:07 --> 00:33:09 >> I've seen that argument tossed around a
00:33:09 --> 00:33:14 few times. So what debate rages?
00:33:14 --> 00:33:16 >> Yeah. A definition that I think NASA
00:33:16 --> 00:33:18 uses from time to time is a living
00:33:18 --> 00:33:22 organism is a a self- sustaining,
00:33:22 --> 00:33:24 selfreplicating
00:33:24 --> 00:33:27 organism capable of Darwinian evolution.
00:33:27 --> 00:33:29 And and I actually think a virus would
00:33:29 --> 00:33:30 satisfy that.
00:33:30 --> 00:33:32 >> I I think it would.
00:33:32 --> 00:33:34 >> And it does it fast.
00:33:34 --> 00:33:35 >> Yeah. And it does. And I think I've got
00:33:35 --> 00:33:37 one at the moment, which is why I feel
00:33:37 --> 00:33:38 so crooked these days.
00:33:38 --> 00:33:40 >> Yeah.
00:33:40 --> 00:33:41 >> Yeah. They hang on, don't they?
00:33:41 --> 00:33:43 >> They do. Well, you know that that's
00:33:43 --> 00:33:46 that's the natural order, isn't it? In
00:33:46 --> 00:33:48 the the the fight for continuity. That's
00:33:48 --> 00:33:50 what a virus does.
00:33:50 --> 00:33:52 >> Yeah. All right. Uh very interesting
00:33:52 --> 00:33:56 story and uh don't go to the chemist
00:33:56 --> 00:33:58 asking for hydrogen cyanide because you
00:33:58 --> 00:34:00 want to, you know, revive your cat or
00:34:00 --> 00:34:03 something. Don't. It doesn't work
00:34:03 --> 00:34:05 >> because you know it's got um interesting
00:34:05 --> 00:34:07 electrical properties. It would be a
00:34:07 --> 00:34:08 good excuse, wouldn't it?
00:34:08 --> 00:34:10 >> Oh, yes. Well, we'll sell you some if
00:34:10 --> 00:34:11 that's the case. Yes.
00:34:11 --> 00:34:14 >> Yes. Why not? Yeah. I don't think you
00:34:14 --> 00:34:16 could get it very easily, could you?
00:34:16 --> 00:34:18 >> I don't know how you'd get I don't want
00:34:18 --> 00:34:20 any, but I don't know how you get it.
00:34:20 --> 00:34:22 >> You'd have to go to an illegal arms
00:34:22 --> 00:34:25 dealer or something, I think. But u Yes.
00:34:25 --> 00:34:26 >> Anyway, uh if you want to read about
00:34:26 --> 00:34:31 that, it's uh in the universetoday.com
00:34:31 --> 00:34:33 website. Uh and I think there's probably
00:34:33 --> 00:34:36 a paper that I have overlooked where
00:34:36 --> 00:34:39 it's been published, but um uh or you
00:34:39 --> 00:34:43 could go to the acs.org org website. Uh,
00:34:43 --> 00:34:45 ACS Central Science is where you'll find
00:34:45 --> 00:34:49 the article. Um, we're just about done,
00:34:49 --> 00:34:51 Fred. Thank you very much.
00:34:52 --> 00:34:53 >> You're welcome, Andrew. And, uh, thank
00:34:53 --> 00:34:56 you for having me. Um, as always, it's a
00:34:56 --> 00:34:56 pleasure.
00:34:56 --> 00:34:58 >> It It is good fun. We really enjoy
00:34:58 --> 00:35:00 ourselves and hopefully the audience
00:35:00 --> 00:35:01 does too. They've been sticking with us
00:35:01 --> 00:35:04 for a good many years now, which we
00:35:04 --> 00:35:06 greatly appreciate. And between shows,
00:35:06 --> 00:35:07 don't forget to visit us on social
00:35:07 --> 00:35:10 media, Facebook, Instagram. we might pop
00:35:10 --> 00:35:13 up in other places that I'm unaware of.
00:35:13 --> 00:35:15 I don't know. We'll have to um we'll
00:35:15 --> 00:35:16 have to go and lean on an iron bar and
00:35:16 --> 00:35:19 have a few drinks and figure it out. And
00:35:19 --> 00:35:22 um on our website, you can also uh look
00:35:22 --> 00:35:25 around at the shop or the astronomy
00:35:25 --> 00:35:26 daily news feed if you want to sign up
00:35:26 --> 00:35:28 for that. There's plenty to do on on the
00:35:28 --> 00:35:31 website, so check it out. Uh and thanks
00:35:31 --> 00:35:32 to Hugh in the studio who couldn't be
00:35:32 --> 00:35:34 with us today. We were talking about the
00:35:34 --> 00:35:36 weather earlier, Fred. And um I don't
00:35:36 --> 00:35:37 know if you know this, but Hugh's from
00:35:38 --> 00:35:39 New Zealand. And so once the temperature
00:35:39 --> 00:35:41 hits 6°, it's way too hot for him to go
00:35:42 --> 00:35:44 outside. So that's why he can't be with
00:35:44 --> 00:35:46 us today. And from me, Andrew Dunley,
00:35:46 --> 00:35:48 thanks for your company. We'll catch you
00:35:48 --> 00:35:50 on the next episode of Space Nuts.
00:35:50 --> 00:35:51 Bye-bye.
00:35:51 --> 00:35:52 >> Space Nuts.
00:35:52 --> 00:35:54 >> You'll be listening to the Space Nuts
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