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Artemis 2 Launch, Australian Astronomy Setbacks, and the Mystery of X-Ray Binaries
In this thrilling episode of Space Nuts , hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson dive into the latest advancements in space exploration and the challenges faced by the Australian astronomy community. The successful launch of Artemis 2 marks a significant milestone for humanity's return to the Moon, while a recent government decision leaves Australian astronomers concerned about their future access to critical telescopes. The episode also explores the intriguing discovery of an X-ray binary that defies conventional understanding, revealing new mysteries in the cosmos.
Episode Highlights:
- Artemis 2 Launch: Andrew and Fred share their excitement over the successful launch of Artemis 2, discussing the mission's significance and the historic achievements of the crew as they become the first humans to travel further than Apollo 13.
- Australian Astronomy Challenges: The hosts delve into the Australian government's decision to discontinue its partnership with the European Southern Observatory, examining the potential impact on local astronomers and the future of optical astronomy in Australia.
- X-Ray Binary Discovery: A fascinating conversation unfolds around the discovery of two peculiar X-ray binaries that challenge existing theories, leading to discussions about the nature of these celestial objects and what they reveal about stellar evolution.
- Future of Astronomy: Andrew and Fred reflect on the implications of these developments for the broader astronomy community, contemplating the balance between funding, scientific advancement, and international collaboration.
For more Space Nuts, including our continuously updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. (https://www.spacenutspodcast.com/) Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on Facebook, Instagram, and more. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favorite platform.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
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Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/32650573?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Hello again. Thanks for joining us on
00:00:02 --> 00:00:06 this yet another edition of Space Nuts,
00:00:06 --> 00:00:07 where we talk astronomy and space
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 science. My name is Andrew Dunley, your
00:00:10 --> 00:00:12 host. Great to have your company. Coming
00:00:12 --> 00:00:15 up on a fresh episode, Arteimus 2 making
00:00:15 --> 00:00:17 headlines for all the right reasons.
00:00:17 --> 00:00:19 What a sigh of relief that was. Did you
00:00:19 --> 00:00:22 watch the launch? I sure did. Uh, but
00:00:22 --> 00:00:24 some bad news for the Australia ESO
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 deal, which has got astronomers upset.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:28 One in particular I can think of. what's
00:00:28 --> 00:00:31 his name again? And the discovery of an
00:00:31 --> 00:00:33 X-ray binary. That's all coming up in
00:00:33 --> 00:00:36 this edition of Space Nuts.
00:00:36 --> 00:00:41 >> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9
00:00:41 --> 00:00:42 Ignition sequence start.
00:00:42 --> 00:00:43 >> Space Nuts.
00:00:43 --> 00:00:46 >> 5 4 3 2
00:00:46 --> 00:00:48 >> 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1
00:00:48 --> 00:00:49 >> Space Nuts.
00:00:49 --> 00:00:52 >> Astronauts report. It feels good.
00:00:52 --> 00:00:54 >> Just wondering what an X-ray binary is.
00:00:54 --> 00:00:55 It sounds like something you could get
00:00:55 --> 00:00:58 arrested for. And joining us to talk
00:00:58 --> 00:01:00 about all of that is Professor Fred
00:01:00 --> 00:01:01 Watson, astronomer at large. Hello,
00:01:02 --> 00:01:02 Fred.
00:01:02 --> 00:01:06 >> Hello, Andrew. And uh I I pick you up on
00:01:06 --> 00:01:07 that because I nearly got arrested once
00:01:07 --> 00:01:10 for doing astronomy with a an old brass
00:01:10 --> 00:01:13 telescope in the front garden, which the
00:01:13 --> 00:01:15 neighbors thought was a bazooka. Uh and
00:01:15 --> 00:01:17 so I had a visit from a very large
00:01:17 --> 00:01:20 policeman. I think I was uh 16 or 17 at
00:01:20 --> 00:01:21 the time
00:01:22 --> 00:01:24 >> cuz these these days you'd get accused
00:01:24 --> 00:01:27 of of being a peeping tom or something,
00:01:27 --> 00:01:29 >> but back back then they thought it was a
00:01:29 --> 00:01:30 weapon.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:34 >> The reason why they do have weaponike,
00:01:34 --> 00:01:35 >> you know, looks them, don't they?
00:01:35 --> 00:01:37 >> Yeah, they look like a gun. That's
00:01:37 --> 00:01:39 right. The reason why I didn't um I
00:01:39 --> 00:01:41 didn't get uh any complaints about being
00:01:42 --> 00:01:44 a peeping tom was that our front garden
00:01:44 --> 00:01:46 overlooked the cemetery uh and there
00:01:46 --> 00:01:49 wasn't anybody around to complain.
00:01:49 --> 00:01:52 >> That's Yeah. Okay. Lots of things come
00:01:52 --> 00:01:54 to mind, but I'll I'll just I won't go
00:01:54 --> 00:01:55 there. Won't go there.
00:01:55 --> 00:01:59 >> No. But yes, like Yeah. When when was
00:01:59 --> 00:02:01 that?
00:02:01 --> 00:02:03 >> The early 1960s. Yeah. Uh-huh.
00:02:03 --> 00:02:05 >> Long after the Second World War, which
00:02:05 --> 00:02:07 is where why bazookas were on people's
00:02:07 --> 00:02:08 minds.
00:02:08 --> 00:02:10 >> Yeah. Yeah. Everyone was still super
00:02:10 --> 00:02:12 sensitive, I guess.
00:02:12 --> 00:02:13 >> Fred, it's been an exciting week. I know
00:02:14 --> 00:02:15 this is podcast, so some people will
00:02:15 --> 00:02:18 hear this well after the fact. But, uh,
00:02:18 --> 00:02:21 the other day, Artemis 2 lifted off very
00:02:21 --> 00:02:23 successfully, which was very, very
00:02:23 --> 00:02:27 exciting. And I watched it live on NASA
00:02:27 --> 00:02:29 live, which a lot of people did. There
00:02:29 --> 00:02:31 were tens of thousands of people logged
00:02:31 --> 00:02:34 on and the system held up and I just
00:02:34 --> 00:02:36 watched the whole thing. I had it on my
00:02:36 --> 00:02:39 computer. I sat there and I just I
00:02:39 --> 00:02:41 watched the whole hour build up to the
00:02:41 --> 00:02:43 to the launch and and watched it all
00:02:43 --> 00:02:46 unfold. And it went something like this.
00:02:46 --> 00:02:57 10 9 8 7 RS25 engines. 8 4 3 2 1 booster
00:02:57 --> 00:03:00 ignition and liftoff.
00:03:00 --> 00:03:03 The crew of Artemis 2 now bound for the
00:03:03 --> 00:03:05 moon. Humanity's next great voyage
00:03:05 --> 00:03:07 begins.
00:03:07 --> 00:03:09 >> How cool is that? How cool. And and
00:03:09 --> 00:03:11 those engines, the the sound of those
00:03:11 --> 00:03:13 engines, even over the over the internet
00:03:13 --> 00:03:16 on a on a shony microphone cuz NASA
00:03:16 --> 00:03:19 can't really afford good stuff. Um, no,
00:03:19 --> 00:03:21 that it sounded You want to hear that
00:03:21 --> 00:03:23 again? That that that that just the
00:03:23 --> 00:03:29 sound of the engines. Okay. All right.
00:03:29 --> 00:03:31 >> No, that was just me blowing into the
00:03:31 --> 00:03:34 microphone, but um yeah, fantastic
00:03:34 --> 00:03:37 stuff. Uh it was so exciting to watch. I
00:03:37 --> 00:03:39 um I really got a big kick out of it and
00:03:39 --> 00:03:40 uh you could hear the crowd cheering at
00:03:40 --> 00:03:43 one stage. It was so loud that the
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45 microphones picked up the crowd and um
00:03:45 --> 00:03:47 yeah it was an amazing moment and of
00:03:47 --> 00:03:51 course as we speak today they have
00:03:51 --> 00:03:53 reached the moon and done their lap.
00:03:53 --> 00:03:56 They went onto the dark side and uh all
00:03:56 --> 00:03:59 that loss talk was being spoken of with
00:03:59 --> 00:04:00 loss of signal. I mean, they were
00:04:00 --> 00:04:04 blocked out by a big rock and um and
00:04:04 --> 00:04:06 they achieved so much. I think uh yeah,
00:04:06 --> 00:04:08 it's been a pretty exciting week, hasn't
00:04:08 --> 00:04:09 it, Fred?
00:04:09 --> 00:04:12 >> You can say that again. And that um that
00:04:12 --> 00:04:14 live broadcast that you're talking
00:04:14 --> 00:04:18 about, um I've still got it on in
00:04:18 --> 00:04:19 this afternoon.
00:04:19 --> 00:04:22 >> Yeah, we're we're getting updates uh uh
00:04:22 --> 00:04:24 all the time. And you know, this is kind
00:04:24 --> 00:04:26 of NASA at his best, isn't it really?
00:04:26 --> 00:04:29 It's just uh such a fantastic
00:04:29 --> 00:04:32 achievement for us to see this mission
00:04:32 --> 00:04:36 uh going so profoundly well. Um uh you
00:04:36 --> 00:04:39 said the uh the trans traverse behind
00:04:40 --> 00:04:42 the moon has taken place. Uh now um
00:04:42 --> 00:04:44 there was a 40-minute loss of signal
00:04:44 --> 00:04:46 which you'd expect for exactly the
00:04:46 --> 00:04:48 reason that you mentioned. Uh the moon
00:04:48 --> 00:04:50 is a big rock and gets in the way of
00:04:50 --> 00:04:53 sign of radio signals. But also what the
00:04:53 --> 00:04:56 astronauts on board Arteimus saw was an
00:04:56 --> 00:04:59 eclipse of the sun. So the moon's disc
00:04:59 --> 00:05:02 actually covered the sun. Now from our
00:05:02 --> 00:05:04 vantage point on Earth, the sun and the
00:05:04 --> 00:05:06 moon look to be the same size. It's one
00:05:06 --> 00:05:08 of the most curious cosmic coincidences
00:05:08 --> 00:05:11 that we've got our satellite and the and
00:05:11 --> 00:05:14 our star which have the same angular
00:05:14 --> 00:05:16 size half a degree in the sky. But of
00:05:16 --> 00:05:18 course from the vantage point of the u
00:05:18 --> 00:05:21 of the Arteimus astronauts uh who are
00:05:21 --> 00:05:24 roughly 6 kilometers from the moon's
00:05:24 --> 00:05:26 surface at the moment uh the moon is is
00:05:26 --> 00:05:29 a lot bigger and so yes they did see an
00:05:29 --> 00:05:33 eclipse uh and as the moon covered the
00:05:33 --> 00:05:35 disc of the sun they would see first of
00:05:35 --> 00:05:37 all the inner atmosphere of the sun what
00:05:37 --> 00:05:39 we call the chromosphere which often has
00:05:39 --> 00:05:42 pink uh glowing clouds of hydrogen on it
00:05:42 --> 00:05:44 but more especially they would have seen
00:05:44 --> 00:05:46 the corona the sun's outer atmosphere,
00:05:46 --> 00:05:49 which is what uh captivates eclipse
00:05:49 --> 00:05:51 goers whenever they go and see a total
00:05:51 --> 00:05:53 eclipse of the sun. And I can't resist
00:05:53 --> 00:05:57 there a plug for 22nd of July, 2028 when
00:05:57 --> 00:06:00 a total eclipse of the sun uh will see
00:06:00 --> 00:06:02 the moon shadow passing over both where
00:06:02 --> 00:06:04 you're sitting at the moment in do and
00:06:04 --> 00:06:06 where I'm sitting at the moment in
00:06:06 --> 00:06:07 Sydney. That's going to be a huge event.
00:06:08 --> 00:06:10 Perhaps not quite as momentous as seeing
00:06:10 --> 00:06:12 it from a spacecraft on the far side of
00:06:12 --> 00:06:15 the moon, but still pretty good. uh and
00:06:15 --> 00:06:17 uh you know the the astronauts are
00:06:17 --> 00:06:20 indeed now on their way home. They in a
00:06:20 --> 00:06:22 sense they've been on their way home
00:06:22 --> 00:06:24 ever since they left Earth orbit because
00:06:24 --> 00:06:28 the trajectory that um that the rocket
00:06:28 --> 00:06:30 was inserted into the the Trans Luna
00:06:30 --> 00:06:33 insertion move uh which took place above
00:06:33 --> 00:06:36 the Earth's surface that that really
00:06:36 --> 00:06:39 placed them on on a path that inevitably
00:06:39 --> 00:06:41 would take them in a figure of eight uh
00:06:41 --> 00:06:43 loop around the moon and bring them back
00:06:43 --> 00:06:47 to Earth. Uh now there are midcourse
00:06:47 --> 00:06:49 connection sorry corrections. I think
00:06:49 --> 00:06:53 there is one planned for later today uh
00:06:53 --> 00:06:56 uh after which I think the um the
00:06:56 --> 00:06:58 astronauts are going to be given some
00:06:58 --> 00:07:00 time to themselves because they've been
00:07:00 --> 00:07:02 pretty hard at work in the last 24 hours
00:07:02 --> 00:07:04 with the with the lunar far side flyby.
00:07:04 --> 00:07:07 >> Absolutely. Uh they've achieved so much
00:07:07 --> 00:07:10 today. Um the four astronauts Reed
00:07:10 --> 00:07:13 Weisman, Victor Glover, Christina Ko or
00:07:13 --> 00:07:15 Kosh depending on how you want to
00:07:15 --> 00:07:17 pronounce it, Jeremy Hansen uh have
00:07:17 --> 00:07:21 become the um the first humans to go
00:07:21 --> 00:07:24 beyond where Apollo 13 set the record
00:07:24 --> 00:07:26 for the first furthest distance for
00:07:26 --> 00:07:30 humans from Earth. So they are now world
00:07:30 --> 00:07:31 record holders. Is it a world record
00:07:32 --> 00:07:33 when you're not on the world?
00:07:33 --> 00:07:35 >> I don't
00:07:35 --> 00:07:39 It's a solar system record. Yes, the um
00:07:39 --> 00:07:42 yes indeed the distance 47
00:07:42 --> 00:07:44 kilometers from Earth
00:07:44 --> 00:07:47 >> uh which uh and I think it was about
00:07:47 --> 00:07:50 400 that the Apollo 13 astronauts
00:07:50 --> 00:07:53 flew out. So it's a significant increase
00:07:53 --> 00:07:55 from that more than 6 km.
00:07:55 --> 00:07:57 >> So the most isolated humans in history
00:07:57 --> 00:07:59 in real terms.
00:07:59 --> 00:08:01 >> Yes, in a that's right in a sense. Um
00:08:01 --> 00:08:03 and they probably felt like that when
00:08:03 --> 00:08:04 they were out of communication for that
00:08:04 --> 00:08:06 40 minutes when they were in the moon
00:08:06 --> 00:08:08 shadow from radio signals from Earth.
00:08:08 --> 00:08:12 >> M yeah and uh one while I was listening
00:08:12 --> 00:08:15 to the live broadcast uh this afternoon
00:08:15 --> 00:08:19 our time uh I heard them talking about
00:08:19 --> 00:08:21 seeing uh meteorite flashes on the
00:08:21 --> 00:08:24 surface of the moon. They they spotted
00:08:24 --> 00:08:28 uh three four impacts while they were um
00:08:28 --> 00:08:29 rounding the moon which I I find
00:08:29 --> 00:08:31 astounding and it was really exciting
00:08:31 --> 00:08:33 for everybody especially the science
00:08:33 --> 00:08:35 team that were talking to them at that
00:08:35 --> 00:08:37 moment.
00:08:37 --> 00:08:39 >> Now that I didn't hear so that's great.
00:08:39 --> 00:08:39 That's great.
00:08:39 --> 00:08:42 >> Yeah. Quite incredible. Yeah. So, you
00:08:42 --> 00:08:43 know, things are happening that you just
00:08:43 --> 00:08:46 you wouldn't. And and apparently where
00:08:46 --> 00:08:49 the where these impacts happened, people
00:08:49 --> 00:08:50 on Earth who were observing the moon at
00:08:50 --> 00:08:53 the time may well have seen them, too.
00:08:53 --> 00:08:56 >> So, um I don't know if it's just a
00:08:56 --> 00:08:58 coincidence. We just happen to have a
00:08:58 --> 00:09:00 spaceship right there at the time or
00:09:00 --> 00:09:01 this happens a lot.
00:09:01 --> 00:09:03 >> I think it's happening a lot. I think
00:09:03 --> 00:09:06 that's the bottom line. It's um um you
00:09:06 --> 00:09:08 know these things have been observed
00:09:08 --> 00:09:10 actually since the 1950s when they were
00:09:10 --> 00:09:12 called transient lunar events which we
00:09:12 --> 00:09:14 now know are as you said meteorite
00:09:14 --> 00:09:19 impacts. Um I also noted that uh two
00:09:19 --> 00:09:22 relatively fresh and unnamed craters
00:09:22 --> 00:09:25 have been uh given a name by the uh
00:09:25 --> 00:09:28 astronauts. One is is integrity which is
00:09:28 --> 00:09:30 the name of the spacecraft and the other
00:09:30 --> 00:09:32 is Carol which is the name of Reed
00:09:32 --> 00:09:34 Wiseman's late wife who died a few years
00:09:34 --> 00:09:35 ago.
00:09:35 --> 00:09:39 >> Yeah. Lovely lovely stuff. Yeah.
00:09:39 --> 00:09:42 >> Yeah. And more more to be written I
00:09:42 --> 00:09:45 suppose as this mission unfolds. Um and
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 and so far so good. um and a whole new
00:09:48 --> 00:09:50 generation um feeling the same
00:09:50 --> 00:09:53 excitement we did back in the 60s and
00:09:53 --> 00:09:56 70s when the Apollo missions did exactly
00:09:56 --> 00:09:58 the same thing. This this flyby is
00:09:58 --> 00:10:01 probably a replication of what Apollo 8
00:10:01 --> 00:10:02 I think
00:10:02 --> 00:10:04 >> very much. Yeah, very similar to Apollo
00:10:04 --> 00:10:07 8. December 1968 I remember it well.
00:10:07 --> 00:10:09 >> Christmas was
00:10:09 --> 00:10:11 >> it was Yeah, that's right. Christmas Eve
00:10:11 --> 00:10:12 I think it might have been but it
00:10:12 --> 00:10:15 depends on your time zone. It's sort of
00:10:15 --> 00:10:17 um occurred to me a couple of times. I'm
00:10:17 --> 00:10:22 kind of rambling a bit now, but um in a
00:10:22 --> 00:10:25 perhaps a quai Trumpian manner. Uh but
00:10:25 --> 00:10:27 um I think it's really interesting to me
00:10:28 --> 00:10:30 because my career in astronomy, my
00:10:30 --> 00:10:32 working career in astronomy is kind of
00:10:32 --> 00:10:36 bookended by lunar missions. Um because
00:10:36 --> 00:10:37 it was early in my career that we were
00:10:38 --> 00:10:39 watching all the Apollo flights and I
00:10:40 --> 00:10:41 don't think anyone even with the best
00:10:41 --> 00:10:43 will in the world would deny that I'm
00:10:43 --> 00:10:46 now late in my career and we've got the
00:10:46 --> 00:10:48 Optimus excitement coming as well. It's
00:10:48 --> 00:10:50 just great stuff. It is fabulous stuff
00:10:50 --> 00:10:52 and you can read all about it or even
00:10:52 --> 00:10:55 watch it live as it happens which we
00:10:55 --> 00:10:57 really couldn't do back in the 60s and
00:10:57 --> 00:10:59 70s. Not like this. We had to rely on
00:10:59 --> 00:11:01 television but now you can just log on
00:11:01 --> 00:11:04 to NASA live and watch it all happen in
00:11:04 --> 00:11:07 real time. s. Fantastic stuff. Yeah. Uh,
00:11:07 --> 00:11:09 so more more to talk about down the
00:11:09 --> 00:11:10 track, I'm sure, but uh, if you've been
00:11:10 --> 00:11:12 following it, well, you probably know
00:11:12 --> 00:11:14 more than we do. This is Space Nuts with
00:11:14 --> 00:11:18 Andrew Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.
00:11:18 --> 00:11:21 Let's take a short break from Space Nuts
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00:12:51 --> 00:12:53 >> The crew of Artemis 2 now bound for the
00:12:53 --> 00:12:56 moon. Humanity's next great voyage
00:12:56 --> 00:12:57 begins.
00:12:57 --> 00:13:00 >> Space nuts. Now Fred, we go from
00:13:00 --> 00:13:04 excitement to something um quite uh
00:13:04 --> 00:13:06 upsetting for Australian astronomers,
00:13:06 --> 00:13:09 including yourself, and that is an
00:13:09 --> 00:13:10 announcement by the Australian
00:13:10 --> 00:13:14 government to um discontinue
00:13:14 --> 00:13:18 uh the the deal with um the European
00:13:18 --> 00:13:20 Southern Observatory. It's uh all over
00:13:20 --> 00:13:22 Red Rover by the sound of it.
00:13:22 --> 00:13:28 >> Uh yes. Yes, we still hope for um
00:13:28 --> 00:13:31 something to come out of all this, but
00:13:31 --> 00:13:33 the backstory here is that Australian
00:13:33 --> 00:13:37 astronomers uh since 2017 have had
00:13:37 --> 00:13:40 access to the best telescopes in the
00:13:40 --> 00:13:42 southern hemisphere without question,
00:13:42 --> 00:13:43 the best optical telescopes anyway,
00:13:43 --> 00:13:45 visible light telescopes, which are
00:13:45 --> 00:13:47 operated by the European Southern
00:13:47 --> 00:13:48 Observatory, whose headquarters are in
00:13:48 --> 00:13:51 Munich uh and whose telescopes are in
00:13:51 --> 00:13:55 northern Chile. uh and um those
00:13:56 --> 00:13:57 principally the the biggest uh
00:13:57 --> 00:14:01 telescopes are the four 8.2 2 meter
00:14:01 --> 00:14:03 components of what's called the VT the
00:14:03 --> 00:14:07 very large telescope uh which have been
00:14:07 --> 00:14:09 you know so which um Australian
00:14:09 --> 00:14:10 astronomers have have had access to
00:14:10 --> 00:14:14 since 2017 uh and has been a highly
00:14:14 --> 00:14:16 productive arrangement not just for the
00:14:16 --> 00:14:18 astronomers but also because our
00:14:18 --> 00:14:20 instrument builders here in Australia
00:14:20 --> 00:14:21 the people who build the fancy
00:14:21 --> 00:14:23 instruments that go on the back of
00:14:23 --> 00:14:28 telescopes um are um they are have have
00:14:28 --> 00:14:29 excelled themselves with what they've
00:14:30 --> 00:14:33 achieved uh because of the you know the
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35 opportunities to build a kit for these
00:14:35 --> 00:14:39 giant telescopes. So and plus all the
00:14:39 --> 00:14:41 spin-offs in terms of education and STEM
00:14:41 --> 00:14:43 and outreach and all the rest of it
00:14:43 --> 00:14:46 which we've tried to capitalize on. Um
00:14:46 --> 00:14:49 but that partnership was always going to
00:14:50 --> 00:14:54 be a 10-year deal. So 2017 to 2027, it
00:14:54 --> 00:14:56 comes to an end in December next year.
00:14:56 --> 00:15:00 >> And uh we in the astronomy community uh
00:15:00 --> 00:15:01 I started worrying about this actually
00:15:02 --> 00:15:04 in 2018. Uh what was going to happen
00:15:04 --> 00:15:08 next uh and to to make a case for the
00:15:08 --> 00:15:10 next step which would have to be
00:15:10 --> 00:15:12 according to the rules of the European
00:15:12 --> 00:15:14 Southern Observatory would have to be
00:15:14 --> 00:15:17 full membership. Um and that is the
00:15:17 --> 00:15:22 stumbling block because whilst um whilst
00:15:22 --> 00:15:25 10 years of strategic partnership were
00:15:25 --> 00:15:28 valued at 129 million Australian
00:15:28 --> 00:15:32 dollars, 10 years of full membership is
00:15:32 --> 00:15:36 $400 million uh nearly half a billion
00:15:36 --> 00:15:38 and that is something that governments
00:15:38 --> 00:15:41 don't like big numbers like that. uh and
00:15:41 --> 00:15:43 especially in times of financial
00:15:43 --> 00:15:46 stringent which we understand. Um
00:15:46 --> 00:15:49 however we do think that the government
00:15:49 --> 00:15:50 could have looked rather more
00:15:50 --> 00:15:52 constructively at other possible
00:15:52 --> 00:15:55 opportunities uh before making this
00:15:55 --> 00:15:58 announcement. Uh and there may be still
00:15:58 --> 00:16:00 scope for that. Um we've you know we've
00:16:00 --> 00:16:03 discussed things like uh Australian
00:16:03 --> 00:16:05 astronomers making inind contributions
00:16:05 --> 00:16:08 to ESO European Southern Observatory by
00:16:08 --> 00:16:11 for example building uh instruments in
00:16:11 --> 00:16:13 including the possibility of a new
00:16:13 --> 00:16:15 telescope here in Australia that could
00:16:16 --> 00:16:21 be uh actually um installed in the site
00:16:21 --> 00:16:24 near the site where the VT very large
00:16:24 --> 00:16:26 telescope uh unit instruments are
00:16:26 --> 00:16:28 situated at place called Sarah for
00:16:28 --> 00:16:30 paranal. Perhaps the most glawing thing
00:16:30 --> 00:16:33 about this though, Andrew, is that we
00:16:33 --> 00:16:35 have uh
00:16:35 --> 00:16:39 our membership, if we were to become
00:16:39 --> 00:16:41 members of ESO, would give us access to
00:16:41 --> 00:16:45 what is going to be the most stupendous
00:16:45 --> 00:16:47 telescope in the world when it comes on
00:16:47 --> 00:16:49 stream early in 2029. That is the
00:16:49 --> 00:16:52 European Southern Observatory's ELT or
00:16:52 --> 00:16:55 extremely large telescope. Sorry, one
00:16:55 --> 00:16:57 >> that's the one that that's as good a
00:16:57 --> 00:16:59 title because that's what it's going to
00:16:59 --> 00:17:03 be. Uh 39 meter diameter mirror. The the
00:17:03 --> 00:17:06 mirror diameter is 10 times that of the
00:17:06 --> 00:17:07 biggest telescope in Australia, the
00:17:07 --> 00:17:09 Anglo Australian telescope that I used
00:17:09 --> 00:17:11 to be astronomer in charge of. It's 10
00:17:11 --> 00:17:13 times bigger, which gives you a 100
00:17:13 --> 00:17:15 times the the sensitivity in terms of
00:17:15 --> 00:17:17 light gathering power and plus many
00:17:17 --> 00:17:19 other benefits. That will come on stream
00:17:19 --> 00:17:22 2029. Um it is sure to generate Nobel
00:17:22 --> 00:17:25 prizes. uh Australian astronomers will
00:17:25 --> 00:17:26 be barred from that and the great pity
00:17:26 --> 00:17:29 of that is uh that Australian
00:17:29 --> 00:17:32 astronomers have access uh to the square
00:17:32 --> 00:17:34 kilometer array which will come online
00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 at about the same time. Uh and to have
00:17:37 --> 00:17:39 those two things together under the you
00:17:40 --> 00:17:42 know the opaces of Australian astronomy
00:17:42 --> 00:17:44 would have given them a head start over
00:17:44 --> 00:17:46 the whole world in terms of discoveries.
00:17:46 --> 00:17:48 uh because the two things absolutely
00:17:48 --> 00:17:52 dovetail together the SKA and the uh ESO
00:17:52 --> 00:17:55 ELT that is not now going to happen and
00:17:55 --> 00:17:57 we feel that's a wasted opportunity and
00:17:57 --> 00:18:00 I might just add one more thing if I may
00:18:00 --> 00:18:03 because this is um this is a you know uh
00:18:03 --> 00:18:05 it is something very close to my heart
00:18:05 --> 00:18:07 I've worked very hard on this for the
00:18:07 --> 00:18:10 last almost decade um there is a there
00:18:10 --> 00:18:14 was a report that came out uh last month
00:18:14 --> 00:18:17 written by one of the country's senior
00:18:17 --> 00:18:18 economists
00:18:18 --> 00:18:21 uh a man named Professor Richard Holden
00:18:21 --> 00:18:23 and uh he's at the University of New
00:18:23 --> 00:18:25 South Wales here in Australia. He has
00:18:26 --> 00:18:28 done an analysis of the economic
00:18:28 --> 00:18:32 benefits of astronomy. Not just about,
00:18:32 --> 00:18:34 you know, the deals that you can do
00:18:34 --> 00:18:36 where you get money to build instruments
00:18:36 --> 00:18:37 and things of that sort. It's about the
00:18:37 --> 00:18:40 value of ideas, the the spin-offs that
00:18:40 --> 00:18:44 we have. All of those things um are
00:18:44 --> 00:18:46 taken into account in a report he wrote
00:18:46 --> 00:18:50 and he makes the point uh in conclusion
00:18:50 --> 00:18:52 in that report that Australian astronomy
00:18:52 --> 00:18:57 adds about $330 million per year to the
00:18:57 --> 00:19:00 country's economy. Uh which makes $40
00:19:00 --> 00:19:03 million a year for the ESO deal seem
00:19:03 --> 00:19:05 really quite proportionate. uh there
00:19:05 --> 00:19:07 would be a huge return on that $40
00:19:07 --> 00:19:09 million uh in terms of other benefits
00:19:09 --> 00:19:11 and that's what the government's missing
00:19:11 --> 00:19:12 out on. Yeah.
00:19:12 --> 00:19:13 >> Yeah. I think when we talked about this
00:19:13 --> 00:19:17 a few episodes ago u because we knew
00:19:17 --> 00:19:19 which was coming up
00:19:19 --> 00:19:21 >> um
00:19:21 --> 00:19:23 I I said something flippant like you
00:19:23 --> 00:19:24 know the left hand probably won't know
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27 what what the right hand's doing. So the
00:19:27 --> 00:19:29 the cost benefit versus cost, you know,
00:19:30 --> 00:19:32 the the benefit versus cost analysis may
00:19:32 --> 00:19:35 not get on the right desk and the
00:19:35 --> 00:19:37 decision could go against you. And I I
00:19:37 --> 00:19:40 was being a a smarty pants, but kind of
00:19:40 --> 00:19:41 looks like that's what's happened.
00:19:41 --> 00:19:45 >> Yeah. I don't actually I think it's uh
00:19:45 --> 00:19:47 different from that because um we made
00:19:48 --> 00:19:50 sure that the people who are making the
00:19:50 --> 00:19:52 decisions um and it's not Jordi by the
00:19:52 --> 00:19:54 way, but he makes his own decisions. I
00:19:54 --> 00:19:56 don't know whether you heard that.
00:19:56 --> 00:19:56 >> I did.
00:19:56 --> 00:19:58 >> The people Yeah. the people who were
00:19:58 --> 00:20:01 making the decisions um had access to
00:20:01 --> 00:20:03 that report. We made that very clear as
00:20:03 --> 00:20:06 soon as it came out. Um now um I'm
00:20:06 --> 00:20:09 suspect that the minister and his
00:20:09 --> 00:20:10 science advisers would also have had
00:20:10 --> 00:20:13 access to it. Uh so what they've done is
00:20:13 --> 00:20:14 they've turned their backs on that and
00:20:14 --> 00:20:17 they've turned their backs on on
00:20:17 --> 00:20:20 something that is very exciting in
00:20:20 --> 00:20:22 relation to our exploration of the
00:20:22 --> 00:20:24 universe at the very time when everybody
00:20:24 --> 00:20:26 else is looking skyward because of
00:20:26 --> 00:20:30 Arteimus. We we had this news on the day
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33 of the Arteimus 2 launch. Uh couldn't
00:20:33 --> 00:20:35 have been a bigger contrast between the
00:20:35 --> 00:20:37 two stories. And and where does this
00:20:37 --> 00:20:40 leave the likes of um the Australian
00:20:40 --> 00:20:42 Space Agency for example? I mean the
00:20:42 --> 00:20:45 government's established that or a
00:20:45 --> 00:20:46 former government did and they've been
00:20:46 --> 00:20:48 pouring money into it. Now now they've
00:20:48 --> 00:20:50 sort of shot the door in your face in
00:20:50 --> 00:20:54 regard to um
00:20:54 --> 00:20:57 the Europe the the um the work
00:20:57 --> 00:20:58 observatory.
00:20:58 --> 00:21:02 >> Yes, exactly. ESO um you know where does
00:21:02 --> 00:21:04 this put everything? Are we kind of
00:21:04 --> 00:21:06 going back to the dark ages?
00:21:06 --> 00:21:09 >> Um, no, no pun intended.
00:21:09 --> 00:21:10 >> No, no pun intended. No, we are going
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13 back probably several decades for
00:21:13 --> 00:21:15 Australian optical astronomy. But
00:21:15 --> 00:21:19 >> um the space agency has been likewise
00:21:19 --> 00:21:22 um chastised, if I can put it that way.
00:21:22 --> 00:21:26 They had large budget taken off them by
00:21:26 --> 00:21:28 the present government about three two
00:21:28 --> 00:21:31 three years ago. Uh, and I actually
00:21:31 --> 00:21:33 wonder if some of this is political
00:21:33 --> 00:21:36 because the space agency was was uh
00:21:36 --> 00:21:39 initiated by a previous government. Uh,
00:21:39 --> 00:21:42 and the ESO strategic partnership was
00:21:42 --> 00:21:44 initiated by a previous government of
00:21:44 --> 00:21:47 opposite flavor to what we have now.
00:21:47 --> 00:21:49 >> Um, so there might be a political side
00:21:49 --> 00:21:51 to it. I'm sure the minister would deny
00:21:51 --> 00:21:54 that. It takes all of
00:21:54 --> 00:21:57 >> course he would. that um I've seen
00:21:57 --> 00:21:59 politics in action and I I I can tell
00:21:59 --> 00:22:01 you quite clearly we I'll give you an
00:22:01 --> 00:22:03 example. We we were going to get a big
00:22:03 --> 00:22:05 sports hub in do
00:22:05 --> 00:22:08 and uh it was announced by our local
00:22:08 --> 00:22:11 member who was also the leader of um his
00:22:11 --> 00:22:14 party at the time and when they lost the
00:22:14 --> 00:22:18 next election the new premier of the
00:22:18 --> 00:22:21 opponent party took the money away and
00:22:21 --> 00:22:23 said no you can't have it.
00:22:23 --> 00:22:26 >> Yeah. and that that was purely political
00:22:26 --> 00:22:28 to you just basically to slap an
00:22:28 --> 00:22:31 opposition leader in the face and yes
00:22:31 --> 00:22:33 they would deny it but it's absolutely
00:22:33 --> 00:22:35 that's just the way the game is played
00:22:35 --> 00:22:37 all over the world. Um this is really
00:22:37 --> 00:22:40 sad really really sad that it's it's
00:22:40 --> 00:22:43 come to this any any hope Fred of some
00:22:43 --> 00:22:45 turnaround some chance of
00:22:45 --> 00:22:47 >> there's always there's always hope um I
00:22:47 --> 00:22:48 I
00:22:48 --> 00:22:51 >> maybe not after what I just said but you
00:22:51 --> 00:22:51 know
00:22:51 --> 00:22:51 >> it's okay
00:22:52 --> 00:22:54 >> I'm not an astronomer. No, no, no,
00:22:54 --> 00:22:56 nobody nobody listens to this. It's
00:22:56 --> 00:22:58 okay.
00:22:58 --> 00:23:02 Um, look, I I am hopeful. We have some
00:23:02 --> 00:23:06 discussions coming up that I hope might
00:23:06 --> 00:23:09 emerge from which might emerge some
00:23:09 --> 00:23:10 perhaps what you might call more
00:23:10 --> 00:23:14 affordable options uh which might still
00:23:14 --> 00:23:16 involve ESO. The problem is ESO has its
00:23:16 --> 00:23:17 own rules
00:23:17 --> 00:23:21 >> and ESO is I think it's 17 uh member
00:23:21 --> 00:23:24 countries and if you do a special deal
00:23:24 --> 00:23:26 for Australia they're all going to say
00:23:26 --> 00:23:27 well why don't we get a special deal
00:23:28 --> 00:23:30 like that as well. Um and that's
00:23:30 --> 00:23:33 understandable. So ISO has to tread very
00:23:33 --> 00:23:34 carefully in this kind of thing.
00:23:34 --> 00:23:36 >> Yeah, that makes sense. All right. Well,
00:23:36 --> 00:23:38 hopefully common sense will prevail
00:23:38 --> 00:23:42 sometime in the next uh two years and
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44 somebody changes their mind and sees the
00:23:44 --> 00:23:47 the benefits rather than just looking at
00:23:47 --> 00:23:48 the dollar signs.
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50 >> Looking at the dollars. That's right.
00:23:50 --> 00:23:53 >> Okay. This is Space Nuts. Andrew Dunley
00:23:53 --> 00:23:57 with Professor Fred Watson.
00:23:57 --> 00:23:59 >> Hey, that's one of the better sims.
00:23:59 --> 00:24:00 Believe me,
00:24:00 --> 00:24:02 >> we've had a couple of cardiac arrests
00:24:02 --> 00:24:03 down here too, peeps.
00:24:03 --> 00:24:05 >> There weren't any time for that up here.
00:24:05 --> 00:24:08 Space nuts.
00:24:08 --> 00:24:11 >> All right. Uh, our final story takes us
00:24:11 --> 00:24:13 um quite a way away from the planet, a
00:24:14 --> 00:24:15 little bit further than Artemus 2 has
00:24:16 --> 00:24:17 traveled, in fact. Uh, the discovery of
00:24:17 --> 00:24:22 an X-ray binary, Fred. Now, I'm not sure
00:24:22 --> 00:24:26 what this is. Um, but yes, I I know
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 there's all sorts of um, you know, radio
00:24:29 --> 00:24:31 wave type signals flying around the
00:24:31 --> 00:24:35 universe. X-rays, gamma rays, um, AC/DC,
00:24:35 --> 00:24:39 you name it. Um, but it's all out there.
00:24:39 --> 00:24:42 Uh, what is an X-ray binary?
00:24:42 --> 00:24:44 >> Um, that's a great question because this
00:24:44 --> 00:24:47 is this is a story about an X-ray binary
00:24:47 --> 00:24:50 that isn't a binary.
00:24:50 --> 00:24:52 >> So, just to complicate things further.
00:24:52 --> 00:24:54 So what's an X-ray binary? Uh if you've
00:24:54 --> 00:24:58 got a star which has got a star a bit
00:24:58 --> 00:25:00 like the sun actually these are normal
00:25:00 --> 00:25:03 stars like the sun uh gets to the end of
00:25:03 --> 00:25:07 its life uh and after usually something
00:25:07 --> 00:25:09 in the region of 10 billion years. Um
00:25:10 --> 00:25:12 what it what happens is it it puffs off
00:25:12 --> 00:25:14 its outer layers because the nuclear
00:25:14 --> 00:25:16 reactions change in its interior and
00:25:16 --> 00:25:19 eventually its core collapses to become
00:25:19 --> 00:25:21 something we call a white dwarf star.
00:25:21 --> 00:25:22 We've talked about them before. They're
00:25:22 --> 00:25:24 about the size of the Earth with about
00:25:24 --> 00:25:27 the mass of a star. Uh and they've
00:25:27 --> 00:25:29 basically exhausted their fuel. They're
00:25:29 --> 00:25:31 still shining because they're very hot.
00:25:32 --> 00:25:36 Uh so, um that's an a white dwarf star.
00:25:36 --> 00:25:40 Now, often that will happen in what's
00:25:40 --> 00:25:42 called a binary system. Two stars
00:25:42 --> 00:25:44 orbiting around their common center of
00:25:44 --> 00:25:49 gravity. And a binary is actually almost
00:25:49 --> 00:25:52 the most common form of stars in the
00:25:52 --> 00:25:55 galaxy. Many many stars that we observe,
00:25:55 --> 00:25:57 almost 50% are actually part of a binary
00:25:58 --> 00:26:00 pair. They're part of a duo. So, if
00:26:00 --> 00:26:02 you've got a star that's collapsed into
00:26:02 --> 00:26:05 a white dwarf star, um, which has
00:26:05 --> 00:26:07 intense gravity, not quite as intense as
00:26:07 --> 00:26:09 a black hole, but pretty intense, and
00:26:09 --> 00:26:11 it's being orbited by another star that
00:26:11 --> 00:26:13 hasn't got to that stage in its
00:26:13 --> 00:26:15 evolution, then what you get is the
00:26:15 --> 00:26:18 white dwarf is sucking matter off the
00:26:18 --> 00:26:21 other star and spiraling it inwards. The
00:26:21 --> 00:26:23 white dwarf's eating it up. Uh, and
00:26:23 --> 00:26:25 eventually if the white dwarf has enough
00:26:25 --> 00:26:27 of that stuff, it becomes unstable and
00:26:27 --> 00:26:28 turns into what we call a type 1A
00:26:28 --> 00:26:33 supernova, an exploding star. Um but
00:26:33 --> 00:26:35 during that process while your your
00:26:35 --> 00:26:38 white dwarf and your normal star are in
00:26:38 --> 00:26:40 this dance around each other with stuff
00:26:40 --> 00:26:42 being pulled off the normal star that
00:26:42 --> 00:26:44 stuff will be accelerated by the gravity
00:26:44 --> 00:26:47 of the white dwarf and it will emit
00:26:47 --> 00:26:50 x-rays because it is being so uh so
00:26:50 --> 00:26:54 highly excited uh by the energy that's
00:26:54 --> 00:26:56 basically being imparted to it as it
00:26:56 --> 00:26:57 gets pulled in. It's a bit like the
00:26:57 --> 00:26:59 accretion disc of a black hole. It's a
00:27:00 --> 00:27:02 kind of calm down version of that.
00:27:02 --> 00:27:05 >> Um, so that all makes sense.
00:27:05 --> 00:27:07 >> I'm glad it does. That's that's where
00:27:07 --> 00:27:09 the X-ray bit comes from. So an X-ray
00:27:09 --> 00:27:12 binary is two stars. One's a normal star
00:27:12 --> 00:27:14 having its surface sucked away by a
00:27:14 --> 00:27:17 white dwarf and that sucking away of
00:27:17 --> 00:27:19 material causes the X-rays. So that's
00:27:19 --> 00:27:21 how you discover it. So what has
00:27:21 --> 00:27:23 happened? But this isn't what's
00:27:23 --> 00:27:24 happening now, is it? With this
00:27:24 --> 00:27:27 discovery. No, no, but that's the that's
00:27:28 --> 00:27:30 the backstory if I can put it that way.
00:27:30 --> 00:27:34 >> Um what has happened now is um there are
00:27:34 --> 00:27:37 two of them actually two stars that have
00:27:37 --> 00:27:40 been uh discovered
00:27:40 --> 00:27:43 >> which show all the signs of being an
00:27:44 --> 00:27:46 X-ray binary in terms of the X-rays that
00:27:46 --> 00:27:49 they emit. But there's no other star
00:27:49 --> 00:27:52 there. There's there's no, you know,
00:27:52 --> 00:27:53 there's there's there's only the white
00:27:54 --> 00:27:56 dwarf. there's there's nothing else.
00:27:56 --> 00:27:56 >> Okay.
00:27:56 --> 00:27:59 >> Um and that means it's an X-ray binary
00:27:59 --> 00:28:02 that isn't a binary. Uh and two of these
00:28:02 --> 00:28:06 things have been discovered um by a
00:28:06 --> 00:28:08 group of scientists who actually look
00:28:08 --> 00:28:10 for these things. Uh they've got
00:28:10 --> 00:28:12 interesting names, perhaps a bit more
00:28:12 --> 00:28:14 imaginative than the usual astronomical
00:28:14 --> 00:28:17 names. One is called Gandalf. Uh and the
00:28:17 --> 00:28:20 and the other is called Moonsized. uh
00:28:20 --> 00:28:22 they were discovered at different times
00:28:22 --> 00:28:25 but they're basically um you know they
00:28:25 --> 00:28:28 are um part of the same survey. So
00:28:28 --> 00:28:31 they've got this signature of X-rays but
00:28:31 --> 00:28:37 um no companion object that is basically
00:28:37 --> 00:28:39 telling you that it's a normal B X-ray
00:28:39 --> 00:28:40 binary.
00:28:40 --> 00:28:42 >> So
00:28:42 --> 00:28:43 does that mean there's something else
00:28:43 --> 00:28:46 there that it's feeding off or
00:28:46 --> 00:28:50 >> That's correct. It looks as though that
00:28:50 --> 00:28:55 what what they have is a a half ring of
00:28:55 --> 00:28:59 material actually circulating around the
00:28:59 --> 00:29:01 white dwarf.
00:29:01 --> 00:29:06 >> So, and that this is the debris from
00:29:06 --> 00:29:08 basically a star being swallowed up,
00:29:08 --> 00:29:10 another star being swallowed up by the
00:29:10 --> 00:29:13 by the white dwarf. Uh it's very very
00:29:13 --> 00:29:15 odd and very unusual and quite hard to
00:29:15 --> 00:29:18 get your head around. This uh this this
00:29:18 --> 00:29:22 moving ring um which uh as the white
00:29:22 --> 00:29:24 dwarf itself spins and generates a
00:29:24 --> 00:29:26 magnetic field is not actually aligned
00:29:26 --> 00:29:28 with where we think the magnetic field
00:29:28 --> 00:29:34 is. Um so it's it's um it's a puzzle.
00:29:34 --> 00:29:37 I'm going to quote one of the authors of
00:29:37 --> 00:29:41 one of these papers who says to to note
00:29:41 --> 00:29:43 white dwarfs of similar age and
00:29:44 --> 00:29:46 evolutionary stage are typically
00:29:46 --> 00:29:48 non-magnetic
00:29:48 --> 00:29:50 while highly magnetic white dwarf
00:29:50 --> 00:29:53 remnants are already an exception.
00:29:53 --> 00:29:57 Gandalf is now only one one of only two
00:29:57 --> 00:29:59 known merger remnants to feature
00:30:00 --> 00:30:02 asymmetric magnetization.
00:30:02 --> 00:30:04 That's all gobbledygook for saying this
00:30:04 --> 00:30:06 is a very very peculiar pair of objects
00:30:06 --> 00:30:08 that we uh that we see and they're in
00:30:08 --> 00:30:10 different parts of the universe. They're
00:30:10 --> 00:30:11 not related to each other. They are
00:30:11 --> 00:30:15 different parts. So this is a really
00:30:15 --> 00:30:18 interesting um episode because it looks
00:30:18 --> 00:30:20 as though a completely new class of
00:30:20 --> 00:30:22 stars has been discovered here.
00:30:22 --> 00:30:24 Something that really is not the norm.
00:30:24 --> 00:30:25 Stuff that we know about and are
00:30:25 --> 00:30:27 familiar and and love. It's just not
00:30:27 --> 00:30:31 part of that. It's something quite new.
00:30:31 --> 00:30:34 as you're explaining it, my thought just
00:30:34 --> 00:30:37 went to could this just be the end of
00:30:37 --> 00:30:40 the partnership? Like it's the the stars
00:30:40 --> 00:30:42 pretty well just, you know, there's
00:30:42 --> 00:30:43 hardly anything left. You're still
00:30:43 --> 00:30:46 getting that X-ray deal going on,
00:30:46 --> 00:30:49 >> but you know, um there's there's
00:30:49 --> 00:30:51 >> hardly any material left and see you
00:30:51 --> 00:30:53 later alligator
00:30:53 --> 00:30:55 >> and and what's what's there is spread
00:30:55 --> 00:30:57 into half a ring, which seems to be the
00:30:57 --> 00:30:59 case. Yeah, I think that's I think that
00:30:59 --> 00:31:01 is probably the the bottom line of this.
00:31:01 --> 00:31:03 Um, which is is boring.
00:31:03 --> 00:31:04 >> You figured something out. Perhaps
00:31:04 --> 00:31:05 >> you figured something out. Yep. Yep.
00:31:06 --> 00:31:08 >> Where's my Nobel Prize?
00:31:08 --> 00:31:09 >> Actually, it's I think I've got it here
00:31:09 --> 00:31:12 in this drawer. So, I put it away last
00:31:12 --> 00:31:15 week.
00:31:15 --> 00:31:18 Uh, yes, it's um, look, it's great uh
00:31:18 --> 00:31:20 that that we've got entirely new
00:31:20 --> 00:31:22 category of highly magnetized white
00:31:22 --> 00:31:24 dwarf, which is something that's not
00:31:24 --> 00:31:26 been seen before.
00:31:26 --> 00:31:28 Yes, indeed. Very exciting. Uh if you'd
00:31:28 --> 00:31:30 like to read about that, you can see it
00:31:30 --> 00:31:33 on uh one of the best websites around
00:31:33 --> 00:31:35 when it comes to uh science and
00:31:36 --> 00:31:39 astronomy. And that's f.org, not fi.
00:31:39 --> 00:31:41 It's phys.org.
00:31:41 --> 00:31:43 fizz.org.
00:31:43 --> 00:31:45 Great story. Uh we had a bit of a
00:31:45 --> 00:31:47 sandwich there. Good news, bad news,
00:31:47 --> 00:31:48 good news, I think.
00:31:48 --> 00:31:52 >> Yes. Yeah, that's right. We We do our
00:31:52 --> 00:31:53 best. We aim to please, don't we? I
00:31:53 --> 00:31:55 mean, we're we're only adequate, but we
00:31:55 --> 00:31:57 do aim to please at some level.
00:31:57 --> 00:31:59 >> We do. Yes. Although, you know, depends
00:31:59 --> 00:32:00 which part of it you were listening to
00:32:00 --> 00:32:02 as to what is pleasing and what wasn't.
00:32:02 --> 00:32:05 I think it was self-evident.
00:32:05 --> 00:32:06 >> Yes, indeed.
00:32:06 --> 00:32:08 >> We are all done, Fred. Thank you very
00:32:08 --> 00:32:09 much.
00:32:09 --> 00:32:11 >> Great pleasure, Andrew. Always good to
00:32:11 --> 00:32:14 air my grievances as well as talk about
00:32:14 --> 00:32:17 the latest in science news. We'll see
00:32:17 --> 00:32:18 you next time.
00:32:18 --> 00:32:19 >> Yes, we will catch you on the next
00:32:19 --> 00:32:21 episode, a Q&A episode coming your way
00:32:21 --> 00:32:23 very, very soon. And uh while you're
00:32:23 --> 00:32:26 online uh have a listen or have a look
00:32:26 --> 00:32:28 around on our website because uh we
00:32:28 --> 00:32:30 would uh we'd love you to do that. You
00:32:30 --> 00:32:32 can u sign up to the astronomy daily
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00:32:38 --> 00:32:40 messages or questions through the ask me
00:32:40 --> 00:32:42 anything button at the top. It's called
00:32:42 --> 00:32:47 AMA. And please leave reviews uh at your
00:32:47 --> 00:32:50 um favorite podcasting platform. Um,
00:32:50 --> 00:32:52 they help us a lot and we really would
00:32:52 --> 00:32:56 appreciate it. Um, I I think we mostly
00:32:56 --> 00:32:57 get reasonably good ones, you know, two
00:32:58 --> 00:33:00 and a half, three stars. Woohoo. No,
00:33:00 --> 00:33:02 we've had a few bigger than that. Uh,
00:33:02 --> 00:33:05 and thanks to Hugh in the studio. Uh,
00:33:05 --> 00:33:06 we've just come out of a long weekend
00:33:06 --> 00:33:08 here in Australia and Hugh's been away
00:33:08 --> 00:33:10 and um he was running late because he
00:33:10 --> 00:33:13 was at a convention of white dwarfs. And
00:33:13 --> 00:33:15 from me, Andrew Dunley, thanks for your
00:33:15 --> 00:33:17 company. We'll see you on the next
00:33:17 --> 00:33:19 episode of Space Nuts. Bye-bye.
00:33:19 --> 00:33:20 >> Space nuts.
00:33:20 --> 00:33:22 >> You've been listening to the Space Nuts
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