00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 hello again thanks for joining us and
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 welcome this is Believe It or Not
00:00:05 --> 00:00:08 episode 500 of Space Nuts can you
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 believe it and what have we got in store
00:00:10 --> 00:00:12 for you today absolutely nothing we
00:00:12 --> 00:00:15 didn't have time to organize energy um
00:00:15 --> 00:00:17 but uh we will be answering audience
00:00:17 --> 00:00:20 questions it's a Q&A episode uh we have
00:00:20 --> 00:00:23 got a few remarks that have come in
00:00:23 --> 00:00:25 always scared of remarks but anyway
00:00:25 --> 00:00:27 we'll deal with that uh we've got a
00:00:27 --> 00:00:29 question about Big Bang Theory we've got
00:00:29 --> 00:00:32 a another question about the collision
00:00:32 --> 00:00:34 with Andromeda cold
00:00:34 --> 00:00:38 welding I I I've never tried it but uh
00:00:38 --> 00:00:41 I'm willing to give it a go and a
00:00:41 --> 00:00:44 question from Mike who's asking all of
00:00:44 --> 00:00:48 us about our favorite upcoming missions
00:00:48 --> 00:00:50 that'll be fun it's all coming up on
00:00:50 --> 00:00:54 this episode 500 of Space Nuts 15
00:00:54 --> 00:00:58 seconds guidance is internal 10 9
00:00:59 --> 00:01:00 ignition sequence
00:01:00 --> 00:01:06 Space Nuts 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1
00:01:06 --> 00:01:10 Space Nuts as night report it feels good
00:01:10 --> 00:01:12 and joining us for this auspicious
00:01:12 --> 00:01:14 occasion or it's just another episode
00:01:14 --> 00:01:16 whichever way you want to look at it is
00:01:16 --> 00:01:17 uh jonty Horner professor of
00:01:17 --> 00:01:19 astrophysics at the University of
00:01:19 --> 00:01:21 Southern Queensland hello JY good
00:01:21 --> 00:01:23 evening how you going good thank you and
00:01:23 --> 00:01:25 Professor Fred Watson astronomer at
00:01:25 --> 00:01:29 large back in the chair hello hello
00:01:29 --> 00:01:34 Andrew and uh uh nice to be back is the
00:01:34 --> 00:01:37 answer lagged hell
00:01:37 --> 00:01:39 obviously it's all right it'll come back
00:01:39 --> 00:01:40 to you you had plenty of time to forget
00:01:40 --> 00:01:43 how we do this but it'll come back
00:01:43 --> 00:01:47 wouldn't proper who am I again yeah yes
00:01:47 --> 00:01:49 it reminds ah now who was it Graham
00:01:49 --> 00:01:51 Garden who was with the goodies remember
00:01:52 --> 00:01:55 yes I do he was on another TV Sho show
00:01:55 --> 00:01:59 once and they they were um uh I can't
00:01:59 --> 00:02:00 remember what the circum stances are but
00:02:00 --> 00:02:02 they were all doing pickup pickup lines
00:02:02 --> 00:02:04 at nursing
00:02:04 --> 00:02:07 homes and gra of garden went
00:02:07 --> 00:02:10 hello who am
00:02:10 --> 00:02:13 I it was um it was the radio show it was
00:02:13 --> 00:02:15 I'm sorry I haven't a clue that's what
00:02:15 --> 00:02:19 it was which isul oh brilliant stuff
00:02:19 --> 00:02:21 brilliant stuff you could probably dig
00:02:21 --> 00:02:22 that stuff up on YouTube or somewhere
00:02:22 --> 00:02:26 these days oh very funny very funny
00:02:26 --> 00:02:30 radio uh now I want to start off with um
00:02:30 --> 00:02:32 not not so much a question but a comment
00:02:32 --> 00:02:34 uh I've been at an academic conference
00:02:34 --> 00:02:36 this is more of a comment than a
00:02:36 --> 00:02:39 question yes yes hi guys I'm Michael
00:02:39 --> 00:02:41 from Glasgow Scotland thanks for your
00:02:41 --> 00:02:44 great show that was the comment no
00:02:44 --> 00:02:46 thanks for your great show which I've
00:02:46 --> 00:02:48 been listening to for several years now
00:02:48 --> 00:02:50 here's my thoughts on a subject much
00:02:50 --> 00:02:53 discussed we know that words are
00:02:53 --> 00:02:56 powerful that powerful equals energy and
00:02:56 --> 00:02:59 that energy equals matter my theory is
00:02:59 --> 00:03:01 that dark matter is the mass equivalent
00:03:01 --> 00:03:04 of all the bad one liners dead jokes and
00:03:04 --> 00:03:06 awful puns that Andrew has collected and
00:03:06 --> 00:03:10 shared over the years dark energy is
00:03:10 --> 00:03:12 simply the rest of the universe trying
00:03:12 --> 00:03:13 to get
00:03:13 --> 00:03:17 away before he delivers the punch lines
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19 should I collect a Nobel Prize or a coat
00:03:19 --> 00:03:22 on my way out uh wishing you and your
00:03:22 --> 00:03:25 nearest and dearest the best for um well
00:03:25 --> 00:03:26 the festive season see how long it's
00:03:26 --> 00:03:29 taken me to get to this one and for 2025
00:03:29 --> 00:03:31 Michael thanks Michael great comment I
00:03:31 --> 00:03:33 appreciate it and just watch my boot on
00:03:33 --> 00:03:36 your way out
00:03:36 --> 00:03:39 think abut good one it allows me to seg
00:03:39 --> 00:03:42 go into a fabulous British author who is
00:03:42 --> 00:03:43 dearly missed in the form of Terry pret
00:03:43 --> 00:03:46 so Terry pratchet who when he was kned
00:03:46 --> 00:03:49 forged his own sword out of star metal
00:03:49 --> 00:03:51 which is kind of awesome and pret was an
00:03:51 --> 00:03:53 incredible author and incredible
00:03:53 --> 00:03:55 Visionary but he came up with this very
00:03:55 --> 00:03:58 similar concept there's a bit in guards
00:03:58 --> 00:03:59 guards which is I think the eighth of
00:03:59 --> 00:04:02 the dis World Books where the librarian
00:04:02 --> 00:04:04 of the Unseen University who is an
00:04:04 --> 00:04:07 orangutan for various reasons is trying
00:04:07 --> 00:04:10 to go back to figure out who sell a book
00:04:10 --> 00:04:12 and there's this beautiful paragraph
00:04:12 --> 00:04:14 about how collections of books and colle
00:04:14 --> 00:04:17 collections of knowledge distort space
00:04:17 --> 00:04:20 and time and perhap it says you know the
00:04:20 --> 00:04:22 relevant equation is knowledge equals
00:04:22 --> 00:04:24 power equals energy equals matter equals
00:04:24 --> 00:04:27 mass a good Bookshop is just a gentile
00:04:27 --> 00:04:30 black hole that knows how to read
00:04:30 --> 00:04:33 M this start space into poly fractal l
00:04:33 --> 00:04:35 space in which everywhere is also
00:04:35 --> 00:04:36 everywhere
00:04:36 --> 00:04:40 else and basically goes on to allow the
00:04:40 --> 00:04:42 librarian to travel back through the
00:04:42 --> 00:04:44 hidden shelves of Els space to work out
00:04:44 --> 00:04:45 who had committed the heinous act of
00:04:46 --> 00:04:48 stealing a book which is clearly a crime
00:04:48 --> 00:04:49 far more important than murder or
00:04:50 --> 00:04:51 anything else that the watch she's
00:04:51 --> 00:04:53 dealing with at the time fabulous books
00:04:53 --> 00:04:55 but he often had science inflected humor
00:04:55 --> 00:04:58 in there and yeah it's lovely to be able
00:04:58 --> 00:04:59 to reminisce and think back to him than
00:04:59 --> 00:05:02 to what's a fabulous comment I think he
00:05:02 --> 00:05:06 also um invented uh my wife Salter
00:05:07 --> 00:05:11 ego granny OG yes because manie OG is
00:05:11 --> 00:05:14 the person to whom I'm married and she's
00:05:14 --> 00:05:16 a she's a step
00:05:16 --> 00:05:18 granny oh I've actually got sat on my
00:05:18 --> 00:05:21 desk here um the first real disc world
00:05:21 --> 00:05:24 bestas book that has been come out other
00:05:24 --> 00:05:25 than for Terry praet which is put
00:05:25 --> 00:05:27 together by his daughter Rihanna which
00:05:27 --> 00:05:29 is Tiffany Akins guide to being a witch
00:05:29 --> 00:05:31 and yeah granny Weatherwax and Nanny o
00:05:31 --> 00:05:33 feature prominently in the beautiful
00:05:33 --> 00:05:37 cover art there so yeah
00:05:37 --> 00:05:40 good okay getting commission for
00:05:40 --> 00:05:44 that so well you might uh so uh to our
00:05:44 --> 00:05:47 first question uh is there any
00:05:47 --> 00:05:48 conclusive evidence that the Big Bang
00:05:48 --> 00:05:52 did not occur in an already existing
00:05:52 --> 00:05:54 Universe I love your show and never miss
00:05:54 --> 00:05:56 an episode keep up the good work Joe
00:05:56 --> 00:05:58 from Washington so is there any
00:05:58 --> 00:06:00 conclusive evidence that the Big Bang
00:06:00 --> 00:06:04 did not occur in an already existing
00:06:04 --> 00:06:07 Universe challenging I've got you on
00:06:07 --> 00:06:09 record as saying when I've asked the
00:06:09 --> 00:06:10 question what was there before the Big
00:06:10 --> 00:06:13 Bang and you said nothing well you
00:06:13 --> 00:06:15 answered it but your answer was
00:06:15 --> 00:06:18 nothing well just I'm I'm gonna throw
00:06:18 --> 00:06:21 this one direct to to jonty and see what
00:06:21 --> 00:06:25 he says in answer to it um my answer is
00:06:25 --> 00:06:30 we don't know uh the the our best theory
00:06:30 --> 00:06:33 for the way the universe works is
00:06:33 --> 00:06:35 general relativity and general
00:06:35 --> 00:06:37 relativity says that time started with
00:06:37 --> 00:06:40 the big bang uh and so there wasn't a
00:06:40 --> 00:06:43 universe there before but that theory is
00:06:43 --> 00:06:45 challenged by people who think they
00:06:45 --> 00:06:48 might be a Multiverse and by quantum
00:06:48 --> 00:06:50 mechanics who think that you've got to
00:06:50 --> 00:06:52 have time before the Big Bang for
00:06:52 --> 00:06:55 quantum mechanics to work and so it's
00:06:55 --> 00:06:57 all a bit messy but there's there's no
00:06:57 --> 00:06:58 evidence in fact really there's no
00:06:59 --> 00:07:03 evidence on either
00:07:03 --> 00:07:05 way well we're a bit back to more
00:07:05 --> 00:07:06 proatate aren't we in the beginning
00:07:06 --> 00:07:08 there was nothing which exploded that's
00:07:08 --> 00:07:12 right yeah um the hard part for this and
00:07:12 --> 00:07:14 again I'm not a cosmologist I think our
00:07:14 --> 00:07:15 wonderful colleagues down the hill at
00:07:15 --> 00:07:17 the University of Queensland would be
00:07:17 --> 00:07:19 well placed to also fail to answer this
00:07:19 --> 00:07:20 question but they' fail it from a
00:07:20 --> 00:07:22 position of much more knowledge than I
00:07:22 --> 00:07:25 have but I take on this is
00:07:25 --> 00:07:29 that space and time are inherently of
00:07:29 --> 00:07:32 the universe so when people ask me a
00:07:32 --> 00:07:34 question that's related to this which is
00:07:34 --> 00:07:36 what's outside the universe or what's
00:07:36 --> 00:07:39 before the universe in the framework
00:07:39 --> 00:07:40 that our cosmological friends have come
00:07:40 --> 00:07:42 up with those questions are meaningless
00:07:42 --> 00:07:43 because you can't be outside the
00:07:43 --> 00:07:45 universe because to be outside you need
00:07:46 --> 00:07:48 to be in some way that is spal so you're
00:07:48 --> 00:07:49 actually still in the
00:07:49 --> 00:07:52 universe the idea is that if everything
00:07:52 --> 00:07:54 in the universe when you rewind time
00:07:54 --> 00:07:56 back ends up in exactly the same place
00:07:56 --> 00:07:59 but that place is everywhere all at once
00:07:59 --> 00:07:59 then
00:07:59 --> 00:08:01 having that been something that is
00:08:01 --> 00:08:03 already an existing Universe outside
00:08:03 --> 00:08:05 that falls into that same philosophical
00:08:05 --> 00:08:07 problem it's where I think cosmology and
00:08:07 --> 00:08:11 philosophy blur together because if the
00:08:11 --> 00:08:13 Big Bang creates space and time then the
00:08:13 --> 00:08:15 concept of outside the Big Bang is the
00:08:15 --> 00:08:17 same as before the Big Bang and it
00:08:17 --> 00:08:19 becomes meaningless it's like a divide
00:08:19 --> 00:08:22 by zero error what that probably means
00:08:22 --> 00:08:24 is I don't understand the theories as
00:08:24 --> 00:08:26 well as I should do but it also probably
00:08:26 --> 00:08:29 means that our theories are not yet at
00:08:29 --> 00:08:31 the final evolution of them because
00:08:31 --> 00:08:33 there are questions we still can't
00:08:33 --> 00:08:34 answer and this is something we see with
00:08:35 --> 00:08:36 kind of the iterative nature of science
00:08:36 --> 00:08:38 is that you get a theory that explains
00:08:38 --> 00:08:40 everything you can observe and
00:08:40 --> 00:08:41 everything you can ask that does a
00:08:42 --> 00:08:43 really good job for a really long time
00:08:43 --> 00:08:44 until you get better at studying the
00:08:44 --> 00:08:46 universe and you start to find the
00:08:46 --> 00:08:48 cracks and I think this is one of the
00:08:48 --> 00:08:50 questions that's illustrating cracks
00:08:50 --> 00:08:52 that we haven't explained yet so we can
00:08:52 --> 00:08:55 give you our best imagination of what it
00:08:55 --> 00:08:58 could be but the reality is as Fred says
00:08:58 --> 00:09:00 we just don't know and that's why people
00:09:00 --> 00:09:01 are doing the research you know if we
00:09:01 --> 00:09:03 knew knew the answer already it wouldn't
00:09:03 --> 00:09:04 be researched and it wouldn't be worth
00:09:04 --> 00:09:07 doing yeah we've had questions about
00:09:07 --> 00:09:10 this many many times over the years and
00:09:10 --> 00:09:12 uh even people with their own theories
00:09:12 --> 00:09:14 uh you know could the Big Bang be the
00:09:14 --> 00:09:18 result of uh a previous Universe
00:09:18 --> 00:09:21 collapsing in on itself so the ganab
00:09:21 --> 00:09:24 Gibb creates a big bang that one's been
00:09:24 --> 00:09:28 tossed at us and a few other thoughts um
00:09:28 --> 00:09:31 look yeah the I don't know answer sits
00:09:31 --> 00:09:32 pretty well with me at the moment
00:09:32 --> 00:09:35 because how could we possibly figure it
00:09:35 --> 00:09:38 out that's that's another question that
00:09:38 --> 00:09:39 that hurts my head as well because I
00:09:40 --> 00:09:42 occasionally come back to this we know
00:09:42 --> 00:09:43 an incredible amount about the universe
00:09:43 --> 00:09:45 and we've worked a whole heap out with a
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 couple of kilos of mushy goo mushy
00:09:48 --> 00:09:50 carbon it's amazing what you can work
00:09:50 --> 00:09:53 out but there's still more to learn and
00:09:53 --> 00:09:54 that's a good thing because otherwise we
00:09:54 --> 00:09:58 wouldn't be employed yeah that's it a
00:09:58 --> 00:10:00 very good point come to think of it I'm
00:10:00 --> 00:10:04 not employed by anyone for
00:10:04 --> 00:10:07 anything yes so the the cracks are
00:10:07 --> 00:10:09 interesting I mean and and perhaps um
00:10:09 --> 00:10:13 it's just worth highlighting what led to
00:10:13 --> 00:10:15 the idea of multiverses in the first
00:10:15 --> 00:10:19 place um which uh one is the fact that
00:10:19 --> 00:10:22 um it's the an what's it called I can't
00:10:22 --> 00:10:23 remember the word I'm jet likeed anyway
00:10:23 --> 00:10:26 and the the the fact that we seem to
00:10:26 --> 00:10:28 have a universe that's fine-tuned for
00:10:28 --> 00:10:31 life to exist the anthropic that's so I
00:10:31 --> 00:10:32 thought it was anthropic but my brain
00:10:32 --> 00:10:34 said no it's something else anyway
00:10:34 --> 00:10:37 that's all right um and you know that
00:10:37 --> 00:10:40 that's what led uh people like Martin
00:10:40 --> 00:10:42 Ree who I think coined the term
00:10:42 --> 00:10:45 Multiverse uh to um and the astronomer
00:10:45 --> 00:10:48 Royal uh to to postulate that maybe
00:10:48 --> 00:10:50 there are other universes out there that
00:10:50 --> 00:10:52 are not fine tune for life to exist and
00:10:52 --> 00:10:55 the one we live in happen to be the the
00:10:55 --> 00:10:58 only one that that has that is um and
00:10:58 --> 00:11:00 the other thing that intrigues people is
00:11:00 --> 00:11:02 you know the four fundamental forces of
00:11:02 --> 00:11:05 nature the weak and strong nuclear
00:11:05 --> 00:11:07 forces the electromagnetic force and
00:11:07 --> 00:11:11 gravity uh gravity is hundreds of
00:11:11 --> 00:11:14 billions of billions of time weaker
00:11:14 --> 00:11:16 times weaker than the others any of the
00:11:16 --> 00:11:20 others um and so some of suggested that
00:11:20 --> 00:11:23 maybe gravity leaks out into whatever
00:11:23 --> 00:11:26 the void is between our universe and
00:11:26 --> 00:11:28 next door's Universe which I think
00:11:28 --> 00:11:31 cosmology just called the bulk um I've
00:11:31 --> 00:11:33 Got a Feeling Doctor Who called it the
00:11:33 --> 00:11:35 void is that right I can't remember
00:11:35 --> 00:11:37 anyway it's the space between universes
00:11:37 --> 00:11:40 which must exist in a higher Dimension
00:11:40 --> 00:11:41 and we don't know about high Dimensions
00:11:41 --> 00:11:43 yet but if we did find out about higher
00:11:43 --> 00:11:45 dimensions then we might start thinking
00:11:45 --> 00:11:49 of answers to this exact question I you
00:11:49 --> 00:11:51 never know one day maybe somebody will
00:11:51 --> 00:11:53 make a breakthrough and we'll know
00:11:53 --> 00:11:55 exactly what happened but I'm not
00:11:55 --> 00:11:56 holding my
00:11:56 --> 00:11:59 bread okay thanks Joe great question as
00:11:59 --> 00:12:03 always um yeah it's it's one of the more
00:12:03 --> 00:12:05 regular questions we get on Space Nuts
00:12:05 --> 00:12:08 about the Big Bang uh it's right up
00:12:08 --> 00:12:11 there with dark energy and black holes
00:12:11 --> 00:12:14 uh and dark matter uh question two with
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16 the Collision of Andromeda and the Milky
00:12:16 --> 00:12:19 Way uh some 4 and a half billion years
00:12:19 --> 00:12:22 from now it's in my diary uh how close
00:12:22 --> 00:12:24 to each other will it take the two
00:12:24 --> 00:12:26 galaxies to start affecting one one
00:12:26 --> 00:12:29 another and to add to that will solar
00:12:29 --> 00:12:33 systems likely Collide or is there so
00:12:33 --> 00:12:35 much space between everything that uh
00:12:35 --> 00:12:37 that part won't happen thanks guys Dan
00:12:37 --> 00:12:39 from the Gold Coast in Australia up in
00:12:39 --> 00:12:44 Queensland not far from you jonty um I
00:12:44 --> 00:12:47 yeah this is a good one uh I think we've
00:12:47 --> 00:12:49 talked about the slow motion effect
00:12:49 --> 00:12:54 that's going to be the Collision um but
00:12:54 --> 00:12:57 yeah are they are they going to affect
00:12:57 --> 00:12:58 each other before it happens or are they
00:12:58 --> 00:13:01 maybe affecting each other already
00:13:01 --> 00:13:03 exactly absolutely yeah and it it's a
00:13:03 --> 00:13:06 matter of how big an effect you want the
00:13:06 --> 00:13:09 effect to be before you recognize it if
00:13:09 --> 00:13:10 you think the diameter of the Milky Way
00:13:11 --> 00:13:13 is usually scoped has been about 100
00:13:13 --> 00:13:16 light years so that means something that
00:13:16 --> 00:13:17 is on the edge of our galaxy that is
00:13:17 --> 00:13:20 nearest to Andromeda is about 50
00:13:20 --> 00:13:21 light years from the middle of the Milky
00:13:22 --> 00:13:25 Way and about 200 about 2.5 million
00:13:25 --> 00:13:28 light years from Andromeda roughly so
00:13:28 --> 00:13:30 Andromeda is a lot lot further away but
00:13:30 --> 00:13:32 Andromeda is a bit more massive what
00:13:32 --> 00:13:34 that means is that Andromeda is exerting
00:13:34 --> 00:13:36 a force on those stars in the Milky Way
00:13:36 --> 00:13:38 but it's exerting a differential Force
00:13:38 --> 00:13:41 across the Milky Way so the stars at one
00:13:41 --> 00:13:42 side of the Milky Way feel Andromeda
00:13:42 --> 00:13:44 pulling more strongly on us than the
00:13:44 --> 00:13:47 other so that means that there will in a
00:13:47 --> 00:13:50 very realistic sense be a tidal effect
00:13:50 --> 00:13:52 on our galaxy caused by Andromeda at the
00:13:52 --> 00:13:55 distance aw that it is now now whether
00:13:55 --> 00:13:57 we've actually detected that yet or not
00:13:57 --> 00:13:59 is another matter because we've got a
00:13:59 --> 00:14:00 lot of weird stuff going on with our
00:14:00 --> 00:14:03 galaxy it's got other galaxies
00:14:03 --> 00:14:04 interfering with it as well like the
00:14:05 --> 00:14:08 many satellite galaxies we've got so I
00:14:08 --> 00:14:09 think the answer is that they will
00:14:09 --> 00:14:10 already be interfering with each other
00:14:10 --> 00:14:12 they'll already be affecting each other
00:14:12 --> 00:14:14 but it's likely that the scale of that
00:14:14 --> 00:14:16 at the minute is too small for us to
00:14:16 --> 00:14:19 readily detect but it doesn't mean that
00:14:19 --> 00:14:20 it isn't happening I guess much the same
00:14:20 --> 00:14:23 way as instantaneously the gravitational
00:14:23 --> 00:14:25 pull of the moon is affecting you but
00:14:25 --> 00:14:27 you don't ever notice it because it's
00:14:27 --> 00:14:29 such a small effect as they closer
00:14:29 --> 00:14:31 together that becomes a bigger and
00:14:31 --> 00:14:34 bigger effect and they will start to
00:14:34 --> 00:14:36 noticeably distort each other before
00:14:36 --> 00:14:38 they're physically in contact so if you
00:14:38 --> 00:14:40 were on the outside looking at the diss
00:14:40 --> 00:14:42 there are stars from our galaxies
00:14:42 --> 00:14:43 further out than the disc there just not
00:14:43 --> 00:14:45 many of them so you don't see them but
00:14:45 --> 00:14:47 they will start distorting and affecting
00:14:47 --> 00:14:49 each other long before they are
00:14:49 --> 00:14:51 physically coming into contact but then
00:14:51 --> 00:14:53 when they do everything in them is so
00:14:53 --> 00:14:55 spread out and space is so big that it
00:14:55 --> 00:14:57 isn't like planets will collide with
00:14:57 --> 00:14:59 planets and stars with stars I think I
00:14:59 --> 00:15:01 saw someone worked out statistics at
00:15:01 --> 00:15:03 some point that said if one star from
00:15:03 --> 00:15:04 Andromeda collides with one star in the
00:15:04 --> 00:15:07 Milky Way that would be unusual and our
00:15:07 --> 00:15:09 Galaxy's got 400 million stars and
00:15:09 --> 00:15:11 ROM's got about a thousand thousand
00:15:11 --> 00:15:14 million stars but space is just so big
00:15:14 --> 00:15:16 that they'll pass through each other
00:15:16 --> 00:15:19 without physical collisions the gas and
00:15:19 --> 00:15:21 dust will collide we'll get a starburst
00:15:21 --> 00:15:23 event so loads of new stars will form it
00:15:23 --> 00:15:26 will be interesting times but the Earth
00:15:26 --> 00:15:28 is unlikely to be hit by an andromedan
00:15:28 --> 00:15:29 earth
00:15:30 --> 00:15:32 ah all right yeah it was an interesting
00:15:32 --> 00:15:34 thought but uh if the stars are going to
00:15:34 --> 00:15:36 miss each other then the solar systems
00:15:36 --> 00:15:39 are not going to collide either are they
00:15:39 --> 00:15:42 yeah and that'll just and I think you
00:15:42 --> 00:15:44 did describe it as a sort of a slow
00:15:44 --> 00:15:47 motion ballet type of an event
00:15:47 --> 00:15:50 for that's right because they the two
00:15:50 --> 00:15:52 objects kind of spiral around one
00:15:52 --> 00:15:54 another be before they merge to become
00:15:55 --> 00:15:59 mil coma Mila Mila yeah um and then
00:15:59 --> 00:16:01 everything gets very boring a bit after
00:16:01 --> 00:16:04 that star event gets rid of all the gas
00:16:04 --> 00:16:05 and dust and the Galaxy just grad ends
00:16:05 --> 00:16:08 up as a pretty amorphous blob of Doom
00:16:08 --> 00:16:10 yeah dead C the sky will be very
00:16:10 --> 00:16:13 different though w't it will eventually
00:16:13 --> 00:16:14 um it'll start off being a lot more
00:16:14 --> 00:16:17 dramatic and RDA will get quite big in
00:16:17 --> 00:16:19 the sky then the Milky Way will get
00:16:19 --> 00:16:20 noticeably distorted but noticeably
00:16:20 --> 00:16:23 brighter with all the star formation but
00:16:23 --> 00:16:25 then when it all dies down you'll just
00:16:25 --> 00:16:26 end up with instead of the Milky Way
00:16:26 --> 00:16:29 kind of a morphous Blobby you know half
00:16:29 --> 00:16:30 of the sky as a big blood because our
00:16:30 --> 00:16:33 galaxy will end up as a big spherical
00:16:33 --> 00:16:35 Galaxy with very little star formation
00:16:35 --> 00:16:38 like Messier 87's the archetypal
00:16:38 --> 00:16:41 elliptical galaxy um and that is
00:16:41 --> 00:16:43 essentially Galactic cian so that's when
00:16:43 --> 00:16:45 the Milky Way goes off into a nursing
00:16:45 --> 00:16:47 home complaining about how things as
00:16:47 --> 00:16:49 good as they used to be well yeah and it
00:16:49 --> 00:16:52 also goes with the theory that beauty
00:16:52 --> 00:16:55 Fades with age so no that's probably
00:16:55 --> 00:16:58 where it's coming speak for yourself
00:16:58 --> 00:17:00 Andrew
00:17:00 --> 00:17:04 Freddy is an exception rule uh okay
00:17:04 --> 00:17:06 thank you Dan I hope we um adequately
00:17:06 --> 00:17:08 answered your question this is Space
00:17:08 --> 00:17:10 Nuts Andrew Dunley here with Professor
00:17:10 --> 00:17:16 Fred Watson and Professor jonty
00:17:16 --> 00:17:20 Horner Space Nuts next question on
00:17:20 --> 00:17:23 episode 500 comes from Sha he's in
00:17:23 --> 00:17:26 Oliver British Columbia Canada uh I just
00:17:26 --> 00:17:28 became aware of the concept of cold
00:17:29 --> 00:17:31 welding where the same kinds of metal
00:17:31 --> 00:17:33 Fus together in the vacuum of space I'm
00:17:33 --> 00:17:36 hoping you can talk a bit about that it
00:17:36 --> 00:17:38 seems to me that it is a critical
00:17:38 --> 00:17:41 process in Planet formation I'm and I'm
00:17:41 --> 00:17:45 wondering uh if the role this wondering
00:17:45 --> 00:17:47 about the role this may play after a
00:17:47 --> 00:17:49 star explodes and all these newly formed
00:17:50 --> 00:17:52 elements Clump together love the show
00:17:52 --> 00:17:54 Miss Fred and jonty is a great addition
00:17:54 --> 00:17:56 to the team well you're lucky Sean
00:17:56 --> 00:18:00 because they're both here
00:18:00 --> 00:18:02 um so cold welding have you heard that
00:18:02 --> 00:18:05 term before either of you I have yeah it
00:18:05 --> 00:18:07 it's an interesting one I me it's I've
00:18:08 --> 00:18:09 seen little video clips to do with this
00:18:10 --> 00:18:11 and it is to do with blocks of metal so
00:18:11 --> 00:18:13 my understanding and Fred can correct me
00:18:13 --> 00:18:15 when I'm wrong and I think it is a when
00:18:15 --> 00:18:17 rather than an if in this case but my
00:18:17 --> 00:18:18 understanding is it's with lumps of
00:18:19 --> 00:18:21 metal in particular so lumps of water
00:18:21 --> 00:18:24 ice w c well to the same degree you'll
00:18:24 --> 00:18:26 get some degree of stickiness between
00:18:26 --> 00:18:28 them but with lumps of metal this thing
00:18:28 --> 00:18:31 can have such a strong effect that you
00:18:31 --> 00:18:33 don't even see a joint there is that
00:18:33 --> 00:18:35 degree
00:18:35 --> 00:18:37 of glomeration of sticking together and
00:18:37 --> 00:18:40 it's to do with how Metals behave and
00:18:40 --> 00:18:42 how free the electrons are to
00:18:42 --> 00:18:44 move which is part of what allows a
00:18:44 --> 00:18:47 metal to be incredibly conductive it
00:18:47 --> 00:18:49 means that metals can essentially stick
00:18:49 --> 00:18:51 together incredibly strongly because of
00:18:51 --> 00:18:53 the electrons moving freely between them
00:18:53 --> 00:18:54 that's kind of my loose understanding of
00:18:55 --> 00:18:58 it now why that is too critical for
00:18:58 --> 00:19:00 planet for is metals are only a small
00:19:00 --> 00:19:03 part of that so if you got two lumps of
00:19:03 --> 00:19:05 metal come together very very gently
00:19:05 --> 00:19:08 they would kind of cold well together um
00:19:08 --> 00:19:09 but they won kind of be tending to
00:19:09 --> 00:19:11 bounce off each other unless they have
00:19:11 --> 00:19:13 something causing them to stick so if
00:19:13 --> 00:19:14 they hooked together a bit this could
00:19:15 --> 00:19:17 help them agglomerate into a single
00:19:17 --> 00:19:19 piece but I don't think it would help
00:19:19 --> 00:19:22 the much bigger scale solid material
00:19:22 --> 00:19:24 stuff that's going on to do with dust
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27 grains and isers so I don't think cold
00:19:27 --> 00:19:29 welding works if if you're in a
00:19:29 --> 00:19:30 situation where you don't have that
00:19:30 --> 00:19:32 mobility of the electrons where you
00:19:32 --> 00:19:34 don't have that conductivity essentially
00:19:34 --> 00:19:36 so that's why I don't think it it seems
00:19:36 --> 00:19:38 to be a critical process in Planet
00:19:38 --> 00:19:40 formation but I suspect it will have
00:19:40 --> 00:19:42 happened at times in Planet formation
00:19:42 --> 00:19:45 and since for example if you got and
00:19:45 --> 00:19:48 this is quite an an extended series of
00:19:48 --> 00:19:51 events that will cause this but you get
00:19:51 --> 00:19:53 asteroids that form that become large
00:19:53 --> 00:19:55 enough to differentiate so they get hot
00:19:56 --> 00:19:58 in their interior the metal sinks the
00:19:58 --> 00:20:00 rocky to flots like we've got on the
00:20:00 --> 00:20:01 earth so you get a core and a mantle and
00:20:01 --> 00:20:04 a crust then you smash them apart that's
00:20:04 --> 00:20:05 how you get the different types of
00:20:05 --> 00:20:07 meteorites we get that have been
00:20:07 --> 00:20:09 processed so you get the evolved
00:20:09 --> 00:20:11 material you get the Stoney meteorites
00:20:11 --> 00:20:13 the Stoney ions which come from the
00:20:13 --> 00:20:15 manle core interface and then you get
00:20:15 --> 00:20:17 the metal meteorites and the biggest
00:20:17 --> 00:20:19 object like that is possibly psychic
00:20:19 --> 00:20:20 that we know about which is a mission
00:20:20 --> 00:20:23 going to at the minute if you did that
00:20:23 --> 00:20:25 and then you shattered that enormous
00:20:26 --> 00:20:28 metaloid psych but you shattered it
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30 fairly gently so the bits still came and
00:20:30 --> 00:20:32 buttered against each other they could
00:20:32 --> 00:20:34 then cold weld back together which gives
00:20:34 --> 00:20:36 you almost this image of the kind of
00:20:36 --> 00:20:37 Terminator style asteroid that you
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 cannot destroy and that's the kind of
00:20:40 --> 00:20:41 scenario where I could see this
00:20:41 --> 00:20:44 happening but in general I think it
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46 would be a very Niche area that wouldn't
00:20:46 --> 00:20:48 happen often in Planet formation so
00:20:48 --> 00:20:49 wouldn't be that critical I don't know
00:20:49 --> 00:20:51 Fred if you want to add to that or if
00:20:51 --> 00:20:53 you have additional thoughts to do with
00:20:53 --> 00:20:57 it um no you've absolutely nailed it um
00:20:57 --> 00:21:00 jonty the only thing I was going to add
00:21:00 --> 00:21:00 is
00:21:00 --> 00:21:03 that uh the certainly in the process of
00:21:03 --> 00:21:04 Planet building it's going to be hot
00:21:05 --> 00:21:08 welding it's basically just metal chunks
00:21:08 --> 00:21:10 of metal fusing together um if that you
00:21:11 --> 00:21:14 know if you uh fusing together because
00:21:14 --> 00:21:17 they're mixed up with the dusty and and
00:21:17 --> 00:21:21 silicate stuff and the IES it's it's and
00:21:21 --> 00:21:23 so those collisions actually heat the
00:21:24 --> 00:21:26 material uh if they're are metallic
00:21:26 --> 00:21:28 components they will fuse but it'll be
00:21:28 --> 00:21:30 mixed up with all that other stuff until
00:21:30 --> 00:21:32 as exactly as jonty says it it
00:21:32 --> 00:21:34 differentiates and all the metal sinks
00:21:34 --> 00:21:38 to the middle uh and gives you a solid
00:21:38 --> 00:21:41 core if it cools down and maybe I think
00:21:41 --> 00:21:43 your analysis of what happens after that
00:21:43 --> 00:21:45 is right as well that if you get
00:21:45 --> 00:21:48 something smashing into uh into a a
00:21:48 --> 00:21:51 Proto a protoplanet or more likely a
00:21:51 --> 00:21:54 plantis or the smaller stage uh then you
00:21:54 --> 00:21:58 might get lumps of metal literally on on
00:21:58 --> 00:22:00 contaminated metal if I can put it that
00:22:00 --> 00:22:04 way that could that could call fuse um I
00:22:04 --> 00:22:06 think it's not an important process uh
00:22:06 --> 00:22:08 in the whole scenario of Planet
00:22:09 --> 00:22:12 formation bu yeah where it is important
00:22:12 --> 00:22:13 though I think is space flight and it's
00:22:13 --> 00:22:15 important as something you want to avoid
00:22:15 --> 00:22:18 now you know this is why you would paint
00:22:18 --> 00:22:20 your metal surfaces I mean if you think
00:22:20 --> 00:22:22 about the arm that used to come out of
00:22:22 --> 00:22:24 the space rutle to grab onto things when
00:22:24 --> 00:22:26 that folds up you don't want it welding
00:22:26 --> 00:22:28 itself solid so it can't move anymore
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 and I guess that's probably the reason
00:22:30 --> 00:22:32 you paint all those things so it's
00:22:32 --> 00:22:34 something people have to be very aware
00:22:34 --> 00:22:36 of with spacecraft design in vacuum of
00:22:36 --> 00:22:40 space so his second part of the question
00:22:40 --> 00:22:42 about exploding Stars Supernova what you
00:22:42 --> 00:22:44 going to call it creating all those
00:22:44 --> 00:22:47 elements uh those elements could Clump
00:22:47 --> 00:22:50 together but as you say not a critical
00:22:50 --> 00:22:53 process in formation yeah I I think this
00:22:53 --> 00:22:54 will be a very small and minor thing I
00:22:54 --> 00:22:55 wouldn't rule it out happening
00:22:55 --> 00:22:57 occasionally particularly when you get
00:22:57 --> 00:23:00 to the size scales that you're no longer
00:23:00 --> 00:23:01 thinking of individual molecules but
00:23:01 --> 00:23:04 you're thinking lumps of stuff but when
00:23:04 --> 00:23:06 you're not big enough for the lumps of
00:23:06 --> 00:23:07 stuff to become molten when they hit
00:23:07 --> 00:23:10 each other and when those lumps of stuff
00:23:10 --> 00:23:12 hit each other very gently so they just
00:23:12 --> 00:23:15 Nestle up together and you know if you
00:23:15 --> 00:23:17 can have two bits of metal that Nestle
00:23:17 --> 00:23:18 up against one another then this will
00:23:18 --> 00:23:20 happen but that's going to be a very
00:23:20 --> 00:23:22 minor part of the process if it's
00:23:22 --> 00:23:25 significant at all okay very good thanks
00:23:25 --> 00:23:27 Sean great to hear from you hope all is
00:23:27 --> 00:23:31 well in British
00:23:31 --> 00:23:37 Columbia 3 2 1 Space Nuts we've got time
00:23:37 --> 00:23:40 for one more question it's an audio
00:23:40 --> 00:23:42 question and it's sort of um an
00:23:42 --> 00:23:45 open-ended question which will become
00:23:45 --> 00:23:47 self-explanatory uh comes from Mike Fred
00:23:47 --> 00:23:49 and Andrew hi it's Mike cupit here from
00:23:49 --> 00:23:52 the northwest of England in the UK and I
00:23:52 --> 00:23:54 have a little bit of a wishy-washy
00:23:54 --> 00:23:58 question for you if I made now you guys
00:23:58 --> 00:24:01 always confirm that space exploration is
00:24:01 --> 00:24:03 slow you can't start a mission and
00:24:03 --> 00:24:05 expect it to yield results after a week
00:24:05 --> 00:24:07 or two everything you do seems to take
00:24:07 --> 00:24:10 years however there seems to be an awful
00:24:10 --> 00:24:12 lot going on at the moment uh just off
00:24:12 --> 00:24:13 the top of my head without even
00:24:13 --> 00:24:15 scratching the surface and we're trying
00:24:16 --> 00:24:17 to work out what's going on with dark
00:24:17 --> 00:24:19 matter and dark energy and what it
00:24:19 --> 00:24:21 actually is and what's causing it we're
00:24:21 --> 00:24:23 talking about saying on the permanent
00:24:23 --> 00:24:25 Moon Bas we're talking about Manet on
00:24:25 --> 00:24:28 Mars we're talking about research for
00:24:28 --> 00:24:30 sort of extraterrestrial life within our
00:24:30 --> 00:24:32 solar system and further a field it's
00:24:32 --> 00:24:34 just absolutely
00:24:34 --> 00:24:37 mindblowing now my question for both of
00:24:37 --> 00:24:41 you if that's okay um if you had to pick
00:24:41 --> 00:24:44 one field of research or one mission
00:24:44 --> 00:24:46 that gets you more excited than anything
00:24:46 --> 00:24:49 else your the fa your favorite thing
00:24:49 --> 00:24:51 that is going on at the moment what
00:24:51 --> 00:24:54 would it be what do you hope it yields
00:24:54 --> 00:24:58 in the next sort of 10 or 15 years um
00:24:58 --> 00:25:00 what do you think the results are going
00:25:00 --> 00:25:02 to be um a lot of what you guys say
00:25:02 --> 00:25:05 absolutely astonishes me just absolutely
00:25:05 --> 00:25:07 bold my mind and I'm sure I'm not the
00:25:07 --> 00:25:09 only one but I just really want to know
00:25:09 --> 00:25:11 what blows your mind what gets you
00:25:11 --> 00:25:14 excited and thank you very much for the
00:25:14 --> 00:25:15 show I don't think I've ever missed a
00:25:15 --> 00:25:17 single episode I think you've been
00:25:17 --> 00:25:19 absolutely brilliant I hope it never
00:25:19 --> 00:25:21 stops um thank you very much for your
00:25:21 --> 00:25:25 work and uh yeah keep it up thank you
00:25:25 --> 00:25:27 Mike um love that question and I love
00:25:27 --> 00:25:29 these open-ended ones where they throw
00:25:29 --> 00:25:31 it back at us and Mike it's your lucky
00:25:31 --> 00:25:35 day because uh we've got um two people
00:25:35 --> 00:25:38 here that can um shed a bit of light on
00:25:38 --> 00:25:40 what they think is their favorite
00:25:40 --> 00:25:42 upcoming Mission um can I go first just
00:25:42 --> 00:25:44 so we can get the lame stuff out of the
00:25:44 --> 00:25:48 way um I actually wrote down three
00:25:48 --> 00:25:51 things that excite me uh
00:25:51 --> 00:25:55 obviously emus 2 that that to me sort of
00:25:55 --> 00:25:57 takes me back to my childhood watching
00:25:57 --> 00:25:59 the Apollo mission
00:25:59 --> 00:26:01 and so I'm really excited about that uh
00:26:01 --> 00:26:03 I'm very this is not so much a mission
00:26:03 --> 00:26:05 as something that I'm really looking
00:26:05 --> 00:26:07 forward to that you and I have well all
00:26:07 --> 00:26:10 of us have spoken about uh in previous
00:26:10 --> 00:26:13 episodes and that's the um uh the the
00:26:13 --> 00:26:15 commissioning of the Vera rubben
00:26:15 --> 00:26:18 telescope but my favorite which we've
00:26:18 --> 00:26:20 already talked about in the last episode
00:26:20 --> 00:26:22 or two this is the one I'm really
00:26:22 --> 00:26:26 excited about is the Europa Clipper
00:26:26 --> 00:26:28 Mission I think we've already mentioned
00:26:28 --> 00:26:31 it today um I'm excited about that
00:26:31 --> 00:26:34 because of the potential the the the
00:26:34 --> 00:26:38 possibility they may be able to confirm
00:26:38 --> 00:26:40 the existence of Life on an ice moon in
00:26:40 --> 00:26:44 our solar system I hope they can that's
00:26:44 --> 00:26:47 that's my big hope Mike that that this
00:26:47 --> 00:26:50 Mission will uh without doubt be able to
00:26:50 --> 00:26:52 nail down the fact that we are not alone
00:26:52 --> 00:26:54 in the universe we might be sharing it
00:26:54 --> 00:26:57 with a couple of germs on an icy planet
00:26:57 --> 00:26:59 or an icy body
00:26:59 --> 00:27:04 or or maybe Krill I don't know um but it
00:27:04 --> 00:27:06 the fact that we have been discovering
00:27:06 --> 00:27:09 more and more um bodies in our solar
00:27:10 --> 00:27:13 system that have oceans is extraordinary
00:27:13 --> 00:27:15 and we spoke about one in the last
00:27:15 --> 00:27:19 episode Kalisto and now we're going out
00:27:19 --> 00:27:22 there to see what we can find that that
00:27:22 --> 00:27:26 really gets me ramped up I I can't wait
00:27:26 --> 00:27:29 to see how this goes I'm really really
00:27:29 --> 00:27:31 hopeful that um they will be able to go
00:27:31 --> 00:27:35 yep we found a frog and um it'll be
00:27:35 --> 00:27:38 Ribbit yes it's will make a lot of noise
00:27:38 --> 00:27:41 about that so that that's the one for me
00:27:41 --> 00:27:44 Mike that is the one for
00:27:44 --> 00:27:48 R and um oh you said it I can't remember
00:27:48 --> 00:27:51 that the European Space Agency Miss was
00:27:51 --> 00:27:53 we to doy moons Explorer which is one
00:27:53 --> 00:27:55 I'm watching with interest because I was
00:27:55 --> 00:27:58 at one of the first little meetings when
00:27:58 --> 00:28:00 that was being planned back in 2004 just
00:28:00 --> 00:28:03 after I started my first ever post stock
00:28:03 --> 00:28:05 and I ended up needing to borrow €1 from
00:28:05 --> 00:28:08 a really senior scientist to get a taxi
00:28:08 --> 00:28:10 because the cash point wouldn't give me
00:28:10 --> 00:28:11 money or something like that so it was
00:28:11 --> 00:28:13 an interesting experience for me
00:28:13 --> 00:28:18 excellent all right um so that's mine
00:28:18 --> 00:28:21 um Johny what what do you I've got a
00:28:21 --> 00:28:22 couple I mean it's worth mentioning
00:28:22 --> 00:28:23 juice because of that personal
00:28:23 --> 00:28:25 connection to it even though it's a very
00:28:25 --> 00:28:27 brief personal connection the fact that
00:28:27 --> 00:28:29 20 one years after I was at that meeting
00:28:29 --> 00:28:31 the thing is still on its way and hasn't
00:28:31 --> 00:28:33 got there yet tells you how long these
00:28:33 --> 00:28:34 things take and what a big part of
00:28:34 --> 00:28:37 people's lives they are the two that I
00:28:37 --> 00:28:39 wanted to flag up I talk a lot about ver
00:28:39 --> 00:28:40 Rubin we talk a lot about things like
00:28:41 --> 00:28:42 the Rosal in Franklin Lander going to
00:28:42 --> 00:28:45 Mars the iy moons explorers both of them
00:28:45 --> 00:28:47 going out to Jupiter but the two that
00:28:47 --> 00:28:50 catch my eye are um the comet
00:28:50 --> 00:28:52 Interceptor Mission so you know my first
00:28:52 --> 00:28:54 love has always been comets and meteors
00:28:54 --> 00:28:57 and this is a mission that was proposed
00:28:57 --> 00:28:58 in the aftermath of the interstellar
00:28:58 --> 00:29:01 objects we saw came through so Mau and
00:29:01 --> 00:29:04 borisov um team of researchers put
00:29:04 --> 00:29:05 together a very basic thing saying
00:29:05 --> 00:29:07 wouldn't it be awesome if we had a
00:29:07 --> 00:29:11 spacecraft sat in a holding orbit ready
00:29:11 --> 00:29:12 to go when we find a comic that's
00:29:12 --> 00:29:15 interesting to actually go visit it now
00:29:15 --> 00:29:17 in the past we've been to comets and
00:29:17 --> 00:29:18 we've been to the ones that we could
00:29:18 --> 00:29:20 predict coming so we knew in advance we
00:29:20 --> 00:29:22 could trundle off there and catch them
00:29:22 --> 00:29:23 because we had plenty of warning and
00:29:23 --> 00:29:24 that means we've seen comets that are
00:29:24 --> 00:29:27 old comets that are evolved that have
00:29:27 --> 00:29:30 had a lot going on and in reality
00:29:30 --> 00:29:32 probably comets that have their origins
00:29:32 --> 00:29:33 in the edge with coper belt Beyond
00:29:33 --> 00:29:35 Neptune we've never really been able to
00:29:35 --> 00:29:37 visit an all Cloud Comet a comet coming
00:29:37 --> 00:29:40 in for the first time or an Interstellar
00:29:40 --> 00:29:43 object and so this mission was devised
00:29:44 --> 00:29:45 which is hopefully going to launch in
00:29:45 --> 00:29:48 2029 possibly on the same spaceship as
00:29:48 --> 00:29:51 Ariel which is a planet characterization
00:29:51 --> 00:29:52 mission that Europe putting together
00:29:52 --> 00:29:54 that is also going to be awesome and
00:29:54 --> 00:29:56 then it's going to hang out there in
00:29:56 --> 00:29:58 space perap there and until the right
00:29:58 --> 00:30:01 object is discovered now thanks of ver
00:30:01 --> 00:30:02 Rubin we'll get much more notice of the
00:30:02 --> 00:30:04 right object we'll probably find
00:30:04 --> 00:30:06 intersell objects by the Dozen rather
00:30:06 --> 00:30:08 than just two that we've ever had and
00:30:08 --> 00:30:11 this thing will be there ready to go so
00:30:11 --> 00:30:12 even when it's launched we won't know
00:30:12 --> 00:30:15 where it's going and then we'll sit and
00:30:15 --> 00:30:16 we'll wait and the right thing will be
00:30:16 --> 00:30:18 discovered and then it will jet off to
00:30:18 --> 00:30:20 intercept it and I think that's just a
00:30:20 --> 00:30:22 fabulous step forward in technology the
00:30:22 --> 00:30:26 other one is the dragonfly Mission which
00:30:26 --> 00:30:28 is scheduled to launch in a few years
00:30:28 --> 00:30:30 time will'll probably get to Saturn in
00:30:30 --> 00:30:31 the mid
00:30:31 --> 00:30:33 2030s and it's destined to go to Titan
00:30:33 --> 00:30:36 now Titan's the only other object in the
00:30:36 --> 00:30:37 solar system than the earth that
00:30:37 --> 00:30:39 experiences rain and weather in that
00:30:39 --> 00:30:42 sense um so it probably feels very much
00:30:42 --> 00:30:44 like um the previous caller from the
00:30:44 --> 00:30:45 northwest of England like their
00:30:45 --> 00:30:47 day-to-day life to be honest it's gray
00:30:47 --> 00:30:48 and overcast and there's a lot of stuff
00:30:48 --> 00:30:51 falling from the sky Titans a really
00:30:51 --> 00:30:54 bizarre players so on Titan you've got
00:30:54 --> 00:30:56 the water ice is harder than granite so
00:30:56 --> 00:30:59 the rocks are made from water ice but
00:30:59 --> 00:31:00 you've got rivers and oceans and
00:31:00 --> 00:31:02 rainfall made of liquid methane and
00:31:02 --> 00:31:04 liquid Ethan and it's a fascinating
00:31:04 --> 00:31:06 world and the only time we've ever
00:31:06 --> 00:31:09 touched its surface was the hyan Lander
00:31:09 --> 00:31:10 which landed with a little penetrometer
00:31:11 --> 00:31:13 Spike on the bottom confused colleagues
00:31:13 --> 00:31:15 of mine who were at the O University who
00:31:15 --> 00:31:16 were the first to handle the data
00:31:16 --> 00:31:18 because they run all these drop tests of
00:31:18 --> 00:31:20 different materials that the surface of
00:31:20 --> 00:31:21 Titan could resemble and none of them
00:31:21 --> 00:31:23 worked and then they thought to try
00:31:23 --> 00:31:25 Creme Brule and that's what it was
00:31:25 --> 00:31:27 because it's got a firm crisp top and
00:31:27 --> 00:31:30 then a soggy bottom essentially that's
00:31:30 --> 00:31:31 the only time we've ever spent there and
00:31:31 --> 00:31:33 that was a very brief fleeing touch on
00:31:33 --> 00:31:34 the surface whereas dragonfly is going
00:31:34 --> 00:31:37 to be something comparable in size to a
00:31:37 --> 00:31:40 golf cart that is a quadcopter but with
00:31:40 --> 00:31:43 eight rots instead so I think that makes
00:31:43 --> 00:31:45 it an Octor copter which sounds like
00:31:45 --> 00:31:47 something out of a bad sci-fi movie you
00:31:47 --> 00:31:49 know helicopter with tentacles and it's
00:31:49 --> 00:31:52 going to fly around it'll have this huge
00:31:52 --> 00:31:54 radioisotope generator and during the
00:31:54 --> 00:31:57 day it will fly around take observations
00:31:57 --> 00:32:00 visit places check out what's happening
00:32:00 --> 00:32:02 search for things like the possible
00:32:02 --> 00:32:04 evidence of life in this totally alien
00:32:04 --> 00:32:06 Place send back weather reports saying
00:32:06 --> 00:32:08 you've got I've gone to another world
00:32:08 --> 00:32:10 and it's reigning here as well you know
00:32:10 --> 00:32:12 welcome to Manchester and then at night
00:32:12 --> 00:32:15 it will land and it will recharge and
00:32:15 --> 00:32:17 the nights on Titan take seven Earth
00:32:17 --> 00:32:19 days to complete recharge from the radio
00:32:19 --> 00:32:21 isop generator and then we're ready to
00:32:21 --> 00:32:24 go the next day so for however long this
00:32:24 --> 00:32:26 Mission lasts we're going to be getting
00:32:26 --> 00:32:28 live weather reports from another planet
00:32:28 --> 00:32:29 and we're getting live images from a
00:32:29 --> 00:32:33 place we've never really visited before
00:32:33 --> 00:32:35 exploring it's going to be absolutely
00:32:35 --> 00:32:37 breathtaking and the technology
00:32:37 --> 00:32:38 challenge of this is Bonkers because
00:32:38 --> 00:32:39 this environment where you're going to
00:32:40 --> 00:32:40 build a
00:32:40 --> 00:32:43 quadcopter that will have so many moving
00:32:43 --> 00:32:46 Parts it can fly is 180 degrees below
00:32:46 --> 00:32:49 freezing so you talk about cold welding
00:32:49 --> 00:32:50 those kind of things are a problem a lot
00:32:50 --> 00:32:53 of the materials we use on Earth won't
00:32:53 --> 00:32:55 work they'll be too brittle so there's
00:32:55 --> 00:32:57 huge technological challenges for this
00:32:57 --> 00:32:59 but it's in devel velopment I think it's
00:32:59 --> 00:33:00 currently scheduled to launch in two or
00:33:00 --> 00:33:03 three years time from now we'll have a
00:33:03 --> 00:33:04 nice toasty seven-year cruise to get
00:33:04 --> 00:33:06 there and then we'll fly fly back and
00:33:06 --> 00:33:08 you'll be able to get a live weather
00:33:08 --> 00:33:10 report from Titan another world on which
00:33:10 --> 00:33:12 it RS so I'm very excited about that
00:33:12 --> 00:33:14 that's amazing yeah that sounds really
00:33:14 --> 00:33:19 exciting uh Fred what's your favorite
00:33:19 --> 00:33:22 or upcoming mission that tickles your
00:33:22 --> 00:33:25 fancy okay two things
00:33:25 --> 00:33:28 uh isn't it interesting we can't on well
00:33:28 --> 00:33:31 no we can't no um well they're both
00:33:31 --> 00:33:33 close to my heart actually uh for
00:33:33 --> 00:33:36 different reasons so one's got its feet
00:33:36 --> 00:33:40 firmly on the ground um costs uh much
00:33:40 --> 00:33:43 less than a space mission one six of the
00:33:43 --> 00:33:45 cost of the James web Space Telescope
00:33:45 --> 00:33:48 but many many times bigger and that's
00:33:48 --> 00:33:51 the elt which is taking shape on Sarah
00:33:51 --> 00:33:54 amazones in Northern Chile and the way
00:33:54 --> 00:33:56 they're progressing with it is just
00:33:56 --> 00:33:58 astonishing it's um looking like a
00:33:58 --> 00:34:01 finished telescope now it hasn't got its
00:34:01 --> 00:34:05 uh 798 mirror segments yet uh but it
00:34:05 --> 00:34:08 will have so the the uh elt the
00:34:08 --> 00:34:10 extremely large telescope the European
00:34:10 --> 00:34:12 Southern observatories Flagship
00:34:12 --> 00:34:15 instrument which we still expect to come
00:34:15 --> 00:34:17 on stream in
00:34:17 --> 00:34:21 2028 uh and that will be you know a date
00:34:21 --> 00:34:23 to look out for and we'll cover it in
00:34:23 --> 00:34:25 space notes jont T you have 10 I was
00:34:25 --> 00:34:27 just going to flag up with that the
00:34:27 --> 00:34:28 numbers with that truly Bon so we're in
00:34:28 --> 00:34:30 Australia where we've got the biggest
00:34:31 --> 00:34:32 telescope in Australia is the Ang
00:34:32 --> 00:34:34 Australian telescope which has a primary
00:34:35 --> 00:34:39 mirror of 3.9 M diameter the E El's
00:34:39 --> 00:34:42 mirror will be 39 M in diameter so the
00:34:42 --> 00:34:44 primary of this telescope is 10 times
00:34:44 --> 00:34:46 the diameter so that's 100 times the
00:34:46 --> 00:34:48 collecting area the secondary mirror of
00:34:48 --> 00:34:50 this telescope is bigger than the mirror
00:34:51 --> 00:34:53 on the angle Australian telescope the
00:34:53 --> 00:34:56 tertiary mirror is still 3.9 M so the
00:34:56 --> 00:34:58 third mirror on this is nearly as big as
00:34:58 --> 00:35:00 the biggest mirror on the biggest
00:35:00 --> 00:35:02 telescope in Australia just to put into
00:35:02 --> 00:35:04 perspective how big it is so yeah
00:35:04 --> 00:35:07 actually the um the thing that blows my
00:35:07 --> 00:35:10 mind because um of course I was the
00:35:10 --> 00:35:12 astronomer in charge of that telescope
00:35:12 --> 00:35:14 so I know I know it's enclosure very
00:35:14 --> 00:35:17 well but the mirror diameter of the elt
00:35:17 --> 00:35:19 is 3 MERS bigger than the diameter of
00:35:19 --> 00:35:21 the Dome of the Anglo Australian
00:35:21 --> 00:35:24 telescope and it is a very generous Dome
00:35:24 --> 00:35:26 oh it is it's one one of the biggest
00:35:26 --> 00:35:28 domes in the world anyway looking at
00:35:28 --> 00:35:30 photos at the moment of the progress of
00:35:30 --> 00:35:32 the
00:35:32 --> 00:35:35 construction stunning it's an amazing to
00:35:35 --> 00:35:36 quote you Fred it's an amazing piece of
00:35:36 --> 00:35:38 kid
00:35:38 --> 00:35:40 yes the fact that having walked around
00:35:40 --> 00:35:42 that catwalk on the edge of the
00:35:42 --> 00:35:44 observatory yeah I'm thinking that that
00:35:44 --> 00:35:46 catwalk is smaller than the mirror is
00:35:46 --> 00:35:48 going to be in
00:35:48 --> 00:35:51 the it's mindblowing isn't it so yes so
00:35:51 --> 00:35:55 that's to come 2028 we'll see first
00:35:55 --> 00:35:57 light it might happen before that with a
00:35:57 --> 00:36:00 fewer number of segments of the mirror
00:36:00 --> 00:36:02 uh but um looking forward to that
00:36:02 --> 00:36:04 because it will pretty well
00:36:04 --> 00:36:07 revolutionize all aspects of astronomy
00:36:07 --> 00:36:09 uh it um it's going to you know it's got
00:36:09 --> 00:36:12 the whole the whole um textbook of
00:36:12 --> 00:36:16 astronomy uh to to basically rewrite and
00:36:16 --> 00:36:18 I'm sure it will something a little bit
00:36:18 --> 00:36:21 more sorry time with ver Ruben because
00:36:21 --> 00:36:23 Vera Rubin will find stuff and then the
00:36:23 --> 00:36:27 El will understand it soip Synergy there
00:36:27 --> 00:36:29 correct and that highlights what I was
00:36:29 --> 00:36:31 about to say that you need what you
00:36:31 --> 00:36:35 really need is a survey telescope to to
00:36:35 --> 00:36:37 find the really exciting objects and
00:36:37 --> 00:36:40 that was the symbiosis between United
00:36:40 --> 00:36:41 Kingdom telescope which is what
00:36:41 --> 00:36:43 brought me to Australia in the first
00:36:43 --> 00:36:45 place and the Ang Australian telescope
00:36:45 --> 00:36:46 they work perfectly well together one
00:36:46 --> 00:36:49 with a wide angle camera and the other
00:36:49 --> 00:36:52 with the capability of homing in on the
00:36:52 --> 00:36:53 details of the objects that were being
00:36:53 --> 00:36:56 discovered and it's the wide angle
00:36:56 --> 00:37:00 aspect that excites me with my final
00:37:00 --> 00:37:03 mission that's uh that I think is going
00:37:03 --> 00:37:06 to be very important and what is
00:37:06 --> 00:37:10 brilliant is that that launches in three
00:37:10 --> 00:37:11 days
00:37:11 --> 00:37:15 time it's a spacecraft called sphere x
00:37:15 --> 00:37:17 uh and sphere X is an acronym as you
00:37:17 --> 00:37:19 might guess it's short for Spectra
00:37:19 --> 00:37:21 photometer for the history of the
00:37:21 --> 00:37:24 universe Epoch of re reionization an
00:37:24 --> 00:37:27 Isis Explorer it's a bit convoluted
00:37:27 --> 00:37:29 uh but that's what it is it's a
00:37:29 --> 00:37:31 relatively small telescope it will go
00:37:31 --> 00:37:33 into orbit uh but what it will do
00:37:33 --> 00:37:35 because it's a basically a wide angle
00:37:35 --> 00:37:37 telescope in the infrared it's like a
00:37:37 --> 00:37:40 wide-angle James web telescope uh it
00:37:40 --> 00:37:44 will take images of a billion galaxies a
00:37:44 --> 00:37:47 100 million stars and 10 asteroids
00:37:47 --> 00:37:51 and that uh is uh in order to look at
00:37:51 --> 00:37:54 the the three particular aspects that
00:37:54 --> 00:37:57 this spacecraft is being launched for uh
00:37:57 --> 00:38:01 one is um the the the COS the cosmology
00:38:01 --> 00:38:02 questions the the you know the big
00:38:03 --> 00:38:05 questions how did the universe begin in
00:38:05 --> 00:38:09 particular was the epoch of inflation
00:38:09 --> 00:38:10 that's that time of gazillion of a
00:38:10 --> 00:38:13 second after the big bang when it became
00:38:13 --> 00:38:16 10 to the 50th times bigger than it was
00:38:16 --> 00:38:19 the gazillionth of a second ago uh was
00:38:19 --> 00:38:21 that real we we have every reason to
00:38:22 --> 00:38:23 believe it was because it's the only way
00:38:23 --> 00:38:26 we can make the theories work but this e
00:38:26 --> 00:38:28 this spacecraft will
00:38:28 --> 00:38:29 measure the geometry of the universe in
00:38:30 --> 00:38:31 such a way that we will get insights
00:38:31 --> 00:38:34 into that process the inflation process
00:38:34 --> 00:38:35 it will also look in detail at the
00:38:35 --> 00:38:37 evolution of galaxies the way they
00:38:37 --> 00:38:39 string out along the filaments of the
00:38:39 --> 00:38:42 cosmic web uh but coming closer to home
00:38:42 --> 00:38:47 it will be looking for IES for um
00:38:47 --> 00:38:50 um carbon containing organic molecules
00:38:50 --> 00:38:54 all of that stuff uh which is really
00:38:54 --> 00:38:56 designed to look again at the question
00:38:56 --> 00:38:58 that we all have on our lips at this at
00:38:58 --> 00:39:00 the mo at the moment and I have done
00:39:00 --> 00:39:03 probably for the last 400 years are we
00:39:03 --> 00:39:05 alone are there other living organisms
00:39:05 --> 00:39:07 because we'll see the building blocks of
00:39:07 --> 00:39:09 life in detail and see where they are
00:39:09 --> 00:39:11 not only in our own Galaxy but probably
00:39:11 --> 00:39:14 in galaxies Beyond so this Friday
00:39:14 --> 00:39:16 spherex launches and we might have some
00:39:16 --> 00:39:20 answers before well before 2026 how's
00:39:20 --> 00:39:22 that yeah very exciting very exciting
00:39:22 --> 00:39:24 and best of all spherex gets off the
00:39:24 --> 00:39:28 ground a day before SpaceX so that's
00:39:28 --> 00:39:30 andk goodness for
00:39:30 --> 00:39:35 that yes um that brings us to the end of
00:39:35 --> 00:39:38 episode 500 look we had big plans for a
00:39:38 --> 00:39:42 very exciting special guest uh but here
00:39:42 --> 00:39:45 in the studio said no so what can you do
00:39:45 --> 00:39:49 but um uh I I all jokes aside though uh
00:39:49 --> 00:39:51 I want to say special thanks to our
00:39:52 --> 00:39:54 sponsors uh who have been on board with
00:39:54 --> 00:39:57 us some of them for years uh I
00:39:57 --> 00:39:58 especially want to thank the audience
00:39:58 --> 00:40:02 for for backing us up for for so long uh
00:40:02 --> 00:40:04 Fred you know as well as I do when we
00:40:04 --> 00:40:06 started we didn't think we' last a few
00:40:06 --> 00:40:08 weeks we really didn't believe that it
00:40:08 --> 00:40:11 would um take off and and we've been
00:40:11 --> 00:40:14 enjoying a very long ride at the crest
00:40:14 --> 00:40:18 of a a couple of waves on the um various
00:40:18 --> 00:40:20 platforms out there that that are um are
00:40:20 --> 00:40:25 well known uh sometimes um number one or
00:40:25 --> 00:40:27 number two on the iTunes science list so
00:40:27 --> 00:40:29 you we we we couldn't be more thrilled
00:40:29 --> 00:40:31 with that kind of success and that's
00:40:31 --> 00:40:33 because of uh of you the people who
00:40:33 --> 00:40:36 download us week in week out despite
00:40:36 --> 00:40:40 Apple updates uh and um I give him a
00:40:40 --> 00:40:45 hard time but um Hugh uh jury who is the
00:40:45 --> 00:40:48 brains and and the brawn behind uh not
00:40:48 --> 00:40:50 only the this podcast but several others
00:40:50 --> 00:40:53 in the stable that um you'll find on
00:40:53 --> 00:40:57 bites.com uh Hugh's a tius worker and uh
00:40:57 --> 00:40:59 I often get emails from him from you
00:40:59 --> 00:41:02 know 1:00 in the morning because he's
00:41:02 --> 00:41:04 he's he's sitting in on a conference or
00:41:04 --> 00:41:06 he's or he's learning something or he's
00:41:06 --> 00:41:08 he's putting the final touches on a show
00:41:08 --> 00:41:11 uh he does a fabulous job and um I did
00:41:11 --> 00:41:12 say once before I'd never say anything
00:41:13 --> 00:41:15 nice about him again but he deserves it
00:41:15 --> 00:41:19 he works so hard but it could not be
00:41:19 --> 00:41:21 done without the likes of of jonty
00:41:22 --> 00:41:24 Horner and Professor Fred Watson thank
00:41:24 --> 00:41:26 you both I'm glad we could all be
00:41:26 --> 00:41:30 together for episode 500 me too um I I
00:41:30 --> 00:41:33 you know I am in awe of what you do and
00:41:33 --> 00:41:36 I I it's such a thrill for me to be able
00:41:36 --> 00:41:40 to team up with you guys um every week
00:41:40 --> 00:41:42 and and talk about this stuff that has
00:41:42 --> 00:41:44 just got people around the world
00:41:45 --> 00:41:47 thinking wondering and and coming up
00:41:47 --> 00:41:50 with ideas that they throw at us about
00:41:50 --> 00:41:53 you know could this be the answer to
00:41:53 --> 00:41:56 Black to dark matter or dark energy or
00:41:56 --> 00:41:59 black holes or or whatever um and
00:41:59 --> 00:42:01 getting emails from people saying we've
00:42:01 --> 00:42:03 published this paper because we listen
00:42:03 --> 00:42:06 to your podcast but that happened while
00:42:06 --> 00:42:07 you're away Fred but I sent you the
00:42:08 --> 00:42:11 email I mean that just you know that is
00:42:11 --> 00:42:13 probably one of the greatest
00:42:13 --> 00:42:16 Thrills that I could experience that we
00:42:16 --> 00:42:19 have inspired people like that so I'm so
00:42:19 --> 00:42:21 so happy to be a part of it and um you
00:42:21 --> 00:42:25 know um 500 down how many many more to
00:42:25 --> 00:42:27 come I hope thank you thank you thank
00:42:27 --> 00:42:29 you so much gentlemen appreciate very
00:42:29 --> 00:42:31 much and thanks to you Andrew the the
00:42:31 --> 00:42:33 man with the silken voice that keeps
00:42:33 --> 00:42:36 this whole thing running and um uh has
00:42:36 --> 00:42:38 the world's probably the universe's
00:42:38 --> 00:42:40 worst dad jokes thrown in for
00:42:41 --> 00:42:44 nothing yes without them they they'd be
00:42:44 --> 00:42:47 nothing Well Done Andrew and thank you
00:42:47 --> 00:42:49 again gry it's been a pleasure and
00:42:49 --> 00:42:51 congratulations both it's a great
00:42:51 --> 00:42:53 achievement thank you JY and thank you
00:42:53 --> 00:42:55 for uh filling in for these last several
00:42:55 --> 00:42:57 weeks and we look forward to getting
00:42:57 --> 00:42:59 back on again real soon appreciate it
00:42:59 --> 00:43:01 sounds good thank you Professor Fred
00:43:01 --> 00:43:03 Watson as Storer at large and professor
00:43:03 --> 00:43:06 johy hoer professor of astrophysics at
00:43:06 --> 00:43:07 the University of Southern Queensland
00:43:07 --> 00:43:10 and from me Andrew Dunley thank you
00:43:10 --> 00:43:12 again and we'll look forward to your
00:43:12 --> 00:43:14 company on the very next episode of
00:43:14 --> 00:43:18 Space Nuts byebye Space Nuts you'll been
00:43:18 --> 00:43:21 listening to the Space Nuts
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00:43:24 --> 00:43:27 Spotify iHeart radio or your favorite
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00:43:32 --> 00:43:34 another quality podcast production from
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