Black Holes, Pulsar Planets, and the Mysteries of Bennu
In this captivating Q&A episode of Space Nuts , hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson tackle an array of intriguing listener questions that delve deep into the cosmos. From the nature of black holes and their supermassive growth to the discovery of planets orbiting pulsars, and the latest findings from the asteroid Bennu, this episode is packed with cosmic insights and scientific discussions.
Episode Highlights:
- Understanding Black Holes: Andrew and Fred explore the complexities of black holes, addressing how they can accrete enough matter to become supermassive within cosmological time scales, and the fascinating concept of time dilation at the event horizon.
- Pulsar Planets: Hazel's question about planets orbiting pulsars sparks a discussion on the survival of these celestial bodies after supernova explosions and the potential effects of pulsar radiation on their environments.
- Asteroid Bennu Update: David inquires about the latest findings from the asteroid Bennu, and the hosts reveal exciting new research on the complex chemical landscape and the implications of liquid water's interaction with organic materials on this carbon-rich asteroid.
- Neutrinos and Black Holes: Keith's question leads to a discussion on the elusive neutrinos, their ability to pass through matter, and what happens to them when they encounter a black hole.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
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Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/32586832?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:01 Hi there. Thanks for joining us again.
00:00:01 --> 00:00:04 This is Space Nuts. It's a Q&A edition.
00:00:04 --> 00:00:06 My name is Andrew Dunley. Great to have
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 your company. Questions today about
00:00:08 --> 00:00:11 falling into a black hole and how can
00:00:11 --> 00:00:13 black holes get super massive? Have they
00:00:13 --> 00:00:15 got enough time? It doesn't make sense.
00:00:15 --> 00:00:17 We'll see if we can explain that.
00:00:17 --> 00:00:19 Planets orbiting pulsars. That's a
00:00:19 --> 00:00:22 question that's been raised. And
00:00:22 --> 00:00:24 somebody wants an update on the asteroid
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 Bennu and what's going on with
00:00:27 --> 00:00:29 neutrinos. We'll try and answer all of
00:00:29 --> 00:00:31 that on this episode of Space Nuts.
00:00:31 --> 00:00:35 >> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9
00:00:36 --> 00:00:37 Ignition sequence start.
00:00:37 --> 00:00:38 >> Space Nuts.
00:00:38 --> 00:00:41 >> 5 4 3 2
00:00:41 --> 00:00:43 >> 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1
00:00:43 --> 00:00:44 >> Space Nuts.
00:00:44 --> 00:00:47 >> Astronauts report. It feels good.
00:00:47 --> 00:00:50 >> And to furnish us with his vast amount
00:00:50 --> 00:00:52 of knowledge because the brain the size
00:00:52 --> 00:00:54 of a planet he has, Professor Fred
00:00:54 --> 00:00:56 Watson, astronomer at large. Hello,
00:00:56 --> 00:00:58 Fred.
00:00:58 --> 00:01:00 >> I've forgotten the name of the robot
00:01:00 --> 00:01:02 whose brain was the size of a planet.
00:01:02 --> 00:01:03 >> Marvin the paranoid android.
00:01:03 --> 00:01:05 >> Marvin. That's right. Yes, it was
00:01:05 --> 00:01:06 Marvin.
00:01:06 --> 00:01:09 >> Yes, Marvin.
00:01:09 --> 00:01:12 >> And he looked like this. He didn't have
00:01:12 --> 00:01:14 >> He would have been really terrible on
00:01:14 --> 00:01:16 radio.
00:01:16 --> 00:01:18 >> No color, no inflection,
00:01:18 --> 00:01:19 >> just nothing.
00:01:19 --> 00:01:22 >> And yeah, everything was just the end of
00:01:22 --> 00:01:25 the world for him.
00:01:25 --> 00:01:26 or the end of the universe, which is
00:01:26 --> 00:01:28 actually what the whole thing was about.
00:01:28 --> 00:01:31 >> Yes, it was. That's true. Yeah.
00:01:31 --> 00:01:35 >> Um, let's do some questions, Fred, if
00:01:35 --> 00:01:38 you um are ready and willing and able.
00:01:38 --> 00:01:39 It doesn't matter if you're able,
00:01:39 --> 00:01:42 adequacy is enough. Uh, let's go to our
00:01:42 --> 00:01:44 first question. Longtime listener, first
00:01:44 --> 00:01:46 time caller, uh, I've been rereading the
00:01:46 --> 00:01:49 threebody problem trilogy without
00:01:49 --> 00:01:51 spoilers. There's a moment where an
00:01:51 --> 00:01:53 image of someone who fell into a small
00:01:53 --> 00:01:57 man-made black hole is still visible.
00:01:57 --> 00:01:59 That got me thinking about time dilation
00:01:59 --> 00:02:01 at the event horizon. Given the that
00:02:02 --> 00:02:04 extreme gravitational time dilation
00:02:04 --> 00:02:06 occurs there, how are black holes able
00:02:06 --> 00:02:09 to accrete enough matter to grow to
00:02:09 --> 00:02:12 super massive scales within cosmological
00:02:12 --> 00:02:15 time scales? Uh, thanks for all the time
00:02:15 --> 00:02:16 and effort you both put into the
00:02:16 --> 00:02:21 podcast. Nick from the UK. Milton Kees,
00:02:21 --> 00:02:24 I think is the name of his locality.
00:02:24 --> 00:02:24 >> It is.
00:02:24 --> 00:02:27 >> So, um, yeah, you'd know that area. I
00:02:27 --> 00:02:29 imagine you'd know just about every
00:02:29 --> 00:02:31 square foot of the UK, wouldn't you?
00:02:31 --> 00:02:33 >> I do. I certainly know that bit quite
00:02:33 --> 00:02:35 well because my brother used to live in
00:02:35 --> 00:02:37 Newport Pagnel, which is right next door
00:02:37 --> 00:02:38 to Milton Kees.
00:02:38 --> 00:02:41 >> Um, Newport Pagnel is a charming sort of
00:02:41 --> 00:02:45 old country village. Milton Kees is a
00:02:45 --> 00:02:47 new town. Uh, and so they're quite
00:02:47 --> 00:02:48 different, but they both had their
00:02:48 --> 00:02:50 pluses, and I'm sure they both had their
00:02:50 --> 00:02:52 minuses. He doesn't live there anymore,
00:02:52 --> 00:02:54 but that's another story which we won't
00:02:54 --> 00:02:56 go into on space.
00:02:56 --> 00:02:58 >> So, what was the question?
00:02:58 --> 00:03:00 >> Well, well, he he made a reference to
00:03:00 --> 00:03:02 threebody problem where someone fell
00:03:02 --> 00:03:04 into a man-made black hole and they were
00:03:04 --> 00:03:07 still visible. I must say, um, Nick,
00:03:07 --> 00:03:10 that I I read the first book and I found
00:03:10 --> 00:03:12 it pretty heavy going, so I I haven't
00:03:12 --> 00:03:14 actually tried to read the rest, but I
00:03:14 --> 00:03:16 might get around to it. They're still
00:03:16 --> 00:03:18 making the TV series, but there's
00:03:18 --> 00:03:21 there's a bit of a um like the first
00:03:21 --> 00:03:23 season was out a couple of years ago as
00:03:23 --> 00:03:26 it turns out now, but um they initially
00:03:26 --> 00:03:27 announced that they weren't going to
00:03:27 --> 00:03:29 keep going. Then they said, "Yes, we
00:03:29 --> 00:03:31 are. We're going to make two more
00:03:31 --> 00:03:33 seasons and and align them both with the
00:03:34 --> 00:03:37 two more books." Now, they're starting
00:03:37 --> 00:03:38 to think, "No, we'll make one more
00:03:38 --> 00:03:41 season and combine the two books." So,
00:03:41 --> 00:03:43 we don't quite know where it's at, but
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45 uh great series if you haven't had a
00:03:45 --> 00:03:48 look at it, The Threebody Problem. Um uh
00:03:48 --> 00:03:50 the first season, I'm going to watch it
00:03:50 --> 00:03:53 again cuz it's so so very good. His
00:03:53 --> 00:03:56 question, um he's thinking about time
00:03:56 --> 00:03:58 dilation at the event horizon. Given
00:03:58 --> 00:04:00 that extreme gravitational time dilation
00:04:00 --> 00:04:02 occurs there, how are black holes able
00:04:02 --> 00:04:04 to accrete enough matter to grow to
00:04:04 --> 00:04:07 super massive scales within cosmological
00:04:07 --> 00:04:10 timelines? I love that question. It's
00:04:10 --> 00:04:12 great, isn't it? And it's a good
00:04:12 --> 00:04:15 question, too. But, um, the the crucial
00:04:15 --> 00:04:18 point here, it's all dependent on your
00:04:18 --> 00:04:21 on the observer's frame of rest. In
00:04:21 --> 00:04:23 other words, where you are and what
00:04:23 --> 00:04:27 you're doing. So, um, the person
00:04:27 --> 00:04:30 splattered on the event horizon of a of
00:04:30 --> 00:04:32 a a black hole for whom time appears to
00:04:32 --> 00:04:35 have stopped to an outside observer,
00:04:35 --> 00:04:37 that person's already long gone. They've
00:04:37 --> 00:04:39 been sucked into the black hole. uh it's
00:04:39 --> 00:04:42 only their time dilated image that we
00:04:42 --> 00:04:45 are seeing. The outside observer sees
00:04:45 --> 00:04:47 the time dilation. The person going
00:04:47 --> 00:04:49 through doesn't they just basically
00:04:50 --> 00:04:52 expect experience time ticking away in
00:04:52 --> 00:04:54 the normal way. Uh and as they get
00:04:54 --> 00:04:56 spaghettified, they probably wish they
00:04:56 --> 00:04:59 weren't there. Uh so it's it's all about
00:04:59 --> 00:05:02 your kind of your vantage point. Uh but
00:05:02 --> 00:05:04 we would call it the the frame of
00:05:04 --> 00:05:07 reference. So yes, it is possible for uh
00:05:07 --> 00:05:10 black holes to accrete and become super
00:05:10 --> 00:05:13 massive black holes. And um you and I I
00:05:13 --> 00:05:17 think Andrew spoke recently about um the
00:05:17 --> 00:05:20 idea that black holes uh can become
00:05:20 --> 00:05:22 super massive much more quickly than we
00:05:22 --> 00:05:26 thought. Uh and I can't remember the
00:05:26 --> 00:05:29 mechanism by which that happened. Uh we
00:05:29 --> 00:05:30 we did cover it. It's a story we
00:05:30 --> 00:05:33 covered. Uh and there was there was a
00:05:33 --> 00:05:35 sort of trick to it. uh that if you do
00:05:35 --> 00:05:39 this uh then your black hole can gather
00:05:39 --> 00:05:42 uh material so quickly that you find
00:05:42 --> 00:05:44 yourself in the situation that we find
00:05:44 --> 00:05:46 when we observe the early universe with
00:05:46 --> 00:05:48 the James Webb telescope. We find super
00:05:48 --> 00:05:50 massive black holes that are much more
00:05:50 --> 00:05:52 massive than we thought they should be.
00:05:52 --> 00:05:54 We thought the accretion of material
00:05:54 --> 00:05:56 onto these black holes would be
00:05:56 --> 00:05:59 relatively gentle and a long process
00:05:59 --> 00:06:00 taking most of the age of the universe
00:06:00 --> 00:06:03 but it's not. It all happens within the
00:06:03 --> 00:06:05 first few hundred million years.
00:06:05 --> 00:06:08 >> Uh yeah, it's called the uh it exceeds
00:06:08 --> 00:06:12 the Edington limit apparently. Um this
00:06:12 --> 00:06:14 this faster growth.
00:06:14 --> 00:06:17 >> Um these objects often reaching billions
00:06:17 --> 00:06:19 of solar masses, matured only 900
00:06:19 --> 00:06:20 million years after the Big Bang,
00:06:20 --> 00:06:22 implying they formed extremely early and
00:06:22 --> 00:06:24 grew unexpectedly fast or had massive
00:06:24 --> 00:06:29 initial um seeds. It says
00:06:29 --> 00:06:31 >> um I'd have to do a lot more reading to
00:06:31 --> 00:06:33 um find out
00:06:33 --> 00:06:36 >> but but they refer to a feeding frenzy.
00:06:36 --> 00:06:38 Abundant gas fueled a feed feeding
00:06:38 --> 00:06:39 frenzy.
00:06:39 --> 00:06:42 >> Feeding frenzy. Uh that was it. It's to
00:06:42 --> 00:06:44 do with the properties of the gas cloud
00:06:44 --> 00:06:47 in which it's sitting. That was right.
00:06:47 --> 00:06:48 >> You've reminded me. You see there's a
00:06:48 --> 00:06:51 few neurons in there that are still
00:06:51 --> 00:06:51 remembering
00:06:51 --> 00:06:54 >> firing. Yeah.
00:06:54 --> 00:06:57 >> So um so it's not so unusual. It's not
00:06:57 --> 00:07:00 so unusual is basically what um the
00:07:00 --> 00:07:02 answer is to Nick's question. This is
00:07:02 --> 00:07:04 this is um yeah, it's the time scale
00:07:04 --> 00:07:07 isn't really the issue. It's it's what
00:07:07 --> 00:07:09 they've got to eat.
00:07:09 --> 00:07:11 >> That's right. In terms of uh Yes, in
00:07:11 --> 00:07:13 terms of how how fast these things can
00:07:13 --> 00:07:15 accrete. But, you know, the the basic
00:07:16 --> 00:07:17 premise of Nick's question is answered
00:07:17 --> 00:07:19 by the fact that you're talking about
00:07:19 --> 00:07:21 two different reference frames. We
00:07:21 --> 00:07:22 observing the black hole from the
00:07:22 --> 00:07:24 outside see somebody falling into it.
00:07:24 --> 00:07:26 Their time seems to go slower and slower
00:07:26 --> 00:07:27 and it's stationary on the event
00:07:27 --> 00:07:29 horizon. But for the person themselves,
00:07:29 --> 00:07:31 they're just whizzing down through the
00:07:31 --> 00:07:33 event horizon and straight into the
00:07:33 --> 00:07:36 black hole in very long strings.
00:07:36 --> 00:07:40 I Okay, so let's just say we observe
00:07:40 --> 00:07:42 somebody who's obviously been sucked
00:07:42 --> 00:07:44 into a black hole and we can see their
00:07:44 --> 00:07:46 image there. How long would that image
00:07:46 --> 00:07:48 last? Would they they'd have to
00:07:48 --> 00:07:50 disappear eventually, wouldn't they? I
00:07:50 --> 00:07:52 think so. Well, probably by covered up
00:07:52 --> 00:07:53 by whatever else falls into the black
00:07:54 --> 00:07:57 hole because there's lots of stuff going
00:07:57 --> 00:07:59 going in. Uh yeah, it's something I've
00:07:59 --> 00:08:02 tried to um envisage as well. And I'm
00:08:02 --> 00:08:04 not really sure of what the you know
00:08:04 --> 00:08:06 what the answer is, but I think it I
00:08:06 --> 00:08:08 suppose if you think of it like um
00:08:08 --> 00:08:11 raindrops on a dry pavement or something
00:08:11 --> 00:08:13 uh where one raindrop hits and you see
00:08:14 --> 00:08:16 it, you know, sort of sitting there and
00:08:16 --> 00:08:18 another one covers it up and then
00:08:18 --> 00:08:19 another one covers it up. Don't know.
00:08:19 --> 00:08:22 That's my That's how the the Watson
00:08:22 --> 00:08:23 brain might do it.
00:08:23 --> 00:08:24 >> Yeah, that's that's a good example.
00:08:24 --> 00:08:26 Yeah.
00:08:26 --> 00:08:27 >> No, that that covers it. I understand.
00:08:27 --> 00:08:31 If I understand, everyone's got it.
00:08:31 --> 00:08:33 >> Hey, I should be on radio, shouldn't I?
00:08:33 --> 00:08:36 >> You should. Yeah, I think you are a lot.
00:08:36 --> 00:08:37 >> A lot more than I am these days, I must
00:08:37 --> 00:08:39 say.
00:08:39 --> 00:08:41 >> Yeah. All right. Thanks, Nick. Great
00:08:41 --> 00:08:44 question. Very thoughtprovoking. And uh
00:08:44 --> 00:08:46 thanks for sending it in. And don't uh
00:08:46 --> 00:08:48 don't make it your last time seeing it's
00:08:48 --> 00:08:51 your first time. Uh next question comes
00:08:51 --> 00:08:53 from Hazel. I have in my studies just
00:08:53 --> 00:08:55 come across something completely new to
00:08:55 --> 00:08:58 me but uh sort of makes sense. We've
00:08:58 --> 00:09:00 found evidence of what look like planets
00:09:00 --> 00:09:03 orbiting pulsars. This would mean
00:09:03 --> 00:09:05 somehow these orbiting bodies survive
00:09:05 --> 00:09:08 massive stars that went supernova. Also,
00:09:08 --> 00:09:10 the sweeping beams of seriously strong
00:09:10 --> 00:09:13 electromagnetic radiation would, I
00:09:13 --> 00:09:15 assume, have some fascinating effects on
00:09:16 --> 00:09:18 these planets. As always, love the show
00:09:18 --> 00:09:20 and keep up the great work. All the best
00:09:20 --> 00:09:24 from uh cloudy skyed Scotland. Well, it
00:09:24 --> 00:09:25 wasn't cloudy skyed when I was there
00:09:25 --> 00:09:27 because the sky was falling. It was
00:09:27 --> 00:09:30 raining cats and dogs,
00:09:30 --> 00:09:33 but um I'm sure that's not uncommon, but
00:09:33 --> 00:09:36 um yes, thanks for the question, Hazel.
00:09:36 --> 00:09:39 All right, Fred, over to you.
00:09:39 --> 00:09:43 Uh, yes. Uh, in fact, the first planet
00:09:43 --> 00:09:45 that was discovered beyond the solar
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 system was exactly what Hazel has just
00:09:48 --> 00:09:51 described. It's a planet around a pulsar
00:09:51 --> 00:09:53 and it won its discoverers, the Nobel
00:09:53 --> 00:09:58 Prize. Uh, this was I think it was 1978
00:09:58 --> 00:10:00 when that was discovered. Uh and the
00:10:00 --> 00:10:02 first planet orbiting a normal star was
00:10:02 --> 00:10:05 discovered in 1995
00:10:05 --> 00:10:08 uh by Mayor Mayor and Quos were the two
00:10:08 --> 00:10:11 scientists who discovered that. Um, but
00:10:11 --> 00:10:16 the one orbiting a pulsar uh was uh it's
00:10:16 --> 00:10:19 partly because pulsars are very very
00:10:19 --> 00:10:22 accurate clocks and you can use their
00:10:22 --> 00:10:24 accuracy of their clocks to time
00:10:24 --> 00:10:26 basically how they're rotating and
00:10:26 --> 00:10:28 whether there's anything gravitational
00:10:28 --> 00:10:29 going on in their environment and that's
00:10:29 --> 00:10:32 how the planet was discovered. Uh the
00:10:32 --> 00:10:34 first planet known to exist beyond the
00:10:34 --> 00:10:36 solar system. Quite a big quite a big
00:10:36 --> 00:10:38 discovery. Uh so there are others like
00:10:38 --> 00:10:40 that now others known to be in the same
00:10:40 --> 00:10:43 situation and I think the question Hazel
00:10:44 --> 00:10:46 postulates is still an active question.
00:10:46 --> 00:10:49 How does a planet survive that kind of
00:10:49 --> 00:10:53 scenario? Um did it form after the
00:10:53 --> 00:10:56 supernova explosion uh form in the
00:10:56 --> 00:10:58 debris of what happened or did it
00:10:58 --> 00:11:00 survive the supernova explosion? And I'm
00:11:00 --> 00:11:03 not sure what the current thinking of my
00:11:03 --> 00:11:05 learned colleagues is on that but I
00:11:05 --> 00:11:08 might ask them. uh because uh I um I
00:11:08 --> 00:11:10 think it's it's a valid question. Uh for
00:11:10 --> 00:11:13 a long time we we it was a puzzle. How
00:11:13 --> 00:11:16 how does a how does a star um that goes
00:11:16 --> 00:11:17 supernova? How does it still have a
00:11:17 --> 00:11:20 planet in its retinue?
00:11:20 --> 00:11:22 >> But but we're assuming that it would
00:11:22 --> 00:11:25 destroy the planet, but it it might mess
00:11:25 --> 00:11:27 it up a bit, but the the rocket still be
00:11:27 --> 00:11:29 there, wouldn't it?
00:11:29 --> 00:11:31 Um well, when you think of the energy
00:11:31 --> 00:11:33 that goes into a supernova, a supernova
00:11:33 --> 00:11:35 when it's at its peak is brighter
00:11:35 --> 00:11:37 usually than the rest of its host
00:11:37 --> 00:11:40 galaxy. So there's huge amounts of
00:11:40 --> 00:11:44 energy there and a lot of that's optical
00:11:44 --> 00:11:46 energy, visible light energy, but uh
00:11:46 --> 00:11:48 there are shock waves that we see. Shock
00:11:48 --> 00:11:51 waves will be disastrous for a for a
00:11:51 --> 00:11:55 planet. So my my guess is it's still not
00:11:55 --> 00:11:57 well understood how a planet can survive
00:11:57 --> 00:11:59 something like that.
00:11:59 --> 00:12:03 >> Yeah. Um what effect would those those
00:12:03 --> 00:12:05 I don't know what what do you call them
00:12:05 --> 00:12:08 with the the um that come out of a puls
00:12:08 --> 00:12:10 >> neutron star
00:12:10 --> 00:12:14 >> or the or the the be um the uh the beams
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16 of radiation you mean caused by the
00:12:16 --> 00:12:17 magnetic fields.
00:12:18 --> 00:12:20 >> So that that in itself would be just
00:12:20 --> 00:12:22 >> Yep. Yeah. Horrific.
00:12:22 --> 00:12:25 >> Yeah, that's right. You'd think so
00:12:25 --> 00:12:27 because they're very powerful. That's
00:12:27 --> 00:12:29 what we see when we see a pul pulsar.
00:12:29 --> 00:12:32 See the flash flashlight beams of uh of
00:12:32 --> 00:12:35 energy. Yeah. Not somewhere you want to
00:12:35 --> 00:12:36 be really.
00:12:36 --> 00:12:38 >> No, it's hard to imagine that there
00:12:38 --> 00:12:41 might be life on some of these pulsar
00:12:41 --> 00:12:42 planets.
00:12:42 --> 00:12:45 >> Yeah. Do do we know how how many planets
00:12:45 --> 00:12:47 we've discovered that have sort of
00:12:47 --> 00:12:49 managed to survive in this environment?
00:12:49 --> 00:12:50 Wouldn't
00:12:50 --> 00:12:52 >> I'm sure we do. Uh I'd have to check it
00:12:52 --> 00:12:54 out. I don't know the number off hand,
00:12:54 --> 00:12:58 but I'm sure with your adept fingering,
00:12:58 --> 00:13:00 you could very quickly tell me how many
00:13:00 --> 00:13:04 planets are in orbit around pulsars.
00:13:04 --> 00:13:08 >> Yes, I'm going to do that now.
00:13:08 --> 00:13:10 >> Meanwhile, I'll wax.
00:13:10 --> 00:13:12 >> And the answer is um the answer isn't
00:13:12 --> 00:13:15 big. As early as this year, between six
00:13:15 --> 00:13:17 and eight planets have been confirmed
00:13:17 --> 00:13:19 orbiting pulsars. That sounds
00:13:19 --> 00:13:22 >> that that suggests the survival rate is
00:13:22 --> 00:13:24 pretty pretty low.
00:13:24 --> 00:13:26 >> Yes, it it does.
00:13:26 --> 00:13:28 >> It does. On the other hand, you know,
00:13:28 --> 00:13:31 stars that um that go supernova and
00:13:31 --> 00:13:32 create
00:13:32 --> 00:13:36 >> a pulsar have got very short lives.
00:13:36 --> 00:13:38 Their lives times are measured in tens
00:13:38 --> 00:13:41 of millions of years rather than
00:13:41 --> 00:13:43 tens of billions of years like our our
00:13:43 --> 00:13:45 son is at probably 10 billion years
00:13:45 --> 00:13:50 total lifetime. So um that's you know
00:13:50 --> 00:13:52 for a planet to have time to coales
00:13:52 --> 00:13:54 properly and form uh and do all the
00:13:54 --> 00:13:57 things that planets do in their infancy
00:13:57 --> 00:13:59 uh it's not very long if you've got a
00:13:59 --> 00:14:02 looming explosion on your doorstep.
00:14:02 --> 00:14:05 >> Absolutely. Yes. Um thankfully we don't
00:14:05 --> 00:14:06 live in that kind of environment.
00:14:06 --> 00:14:08 >> We don't. No, that's right. Although
00:14:08 --> 00:14:11 although um yeah that that famous old
00:14:11 --> 00:14:13 story keeps popping up and I saw it
00:14:13 --> 00:14:15 again the other day about uh the the
00:14:15 --> 00:14:18 impending explosion of Beetlejuice
00:14:18 --> 00:14:20 >> and you know we don't want to be in the
00:14:20 --> 00:14:22 way of that.
00:14:22 --> 00:14:24 >> We don't know it's um it's about 700
00:14:24 --> 00:14:27 light years away so it's survivable. Uh
00:14:27 --> 00:14:27 but
00:14:27 --> 00:14:29 >> yeah good
00:14:29 --> 00:14:31 >> yeah we don't really want to be on the
00:14:31 --> 00:14:33 on the Beetlejuice side of the earth
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35 when it goes off because of all the
00:14:35 --> 00:14:36 radiation.
00:14:36 --> 00:14:40 >> Exactly. M but um you know uh if you
00:14:40 --> 00:14:41 read the popular press it's going to
00:14:41 --> 00:14:45 happen next week but uh it could be you
00:14:45 --> 00:14:49 know tens or maybe 100 thousand years or
00:14:49 --> 00:14:51 something like that couldn't it
00:14:51 --> 00:14:53 >> it's certainly people are talking about
00:14:54 --> 00:14:55 thousands of years that's correct
00:14:55 --> 00:14:58 >> yeah okay thank you Hazel hopefully that
00:14:58 --> 00:15:01 uh sorted out your question thanks for
00:15:01 --> 00:15:04 sending it in and please send us another
00:15:04 --> 00:15:06 one when it pops into your head this is
00:15:06 --> 00:15:08 Space Nuts. Andrew Dunley here with
00:15:08 --> 00:15:12 Professor Fred Watson.
00:15:12 --> 00:15:14 >> We choose to go to the moon in this
00:15:14 --> 00:15:17 decade and do the other things. Not
00:15:17 --> 00:15:19 because they are easy, but because they
00:15:19 --> 00:15:20 are hard.
00:15:20 --> 00:15:22 >> These nuts.
00:15:22 --> 00:15:25 >> Okay, Fred, we have uh an audio
00:15:25 --> 00:15:28 question. Let's hear from David.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:29 >> Good day. David here from the Sunshine
00:15:30 --> 00:15:32 Coast. Longtime listener. Uh fairly
00:15:32 --> 00:15:34 short question today. I see that you
00:15:34 --> 00:15:37 were looking for phone in questions. Um,
00:15:37 --> 00:15:39 just wondering what we've learned uh
00:15:39 --> 00:15:41 with regard to the material that came
00:15:42 --> 00:15:44 back from Benu. Um, I haven't heard a
00:15:44 --> 00:15:46 lot in the mainstream media at all. It's
00:15:46 --> 00:15:48 been quite some time and I know they had
00:15:48 --> 00:15:49 trouble uh dealing with the sample when
00:15:49 --> 00:15:51 it first came back. Uh, just wondering
00:15:51 --> 00:15:53 if you could fill us in. Thanks very
00:15:53 --> 00:15:55 much. Keep up with the great show.
00:15:55 --> 00:15:56 >> See you later.
00:15:56 --> 00:15:57 >> Thank you very much and we'll see you
00:15:57 --> 00:16:00 later too, David. Um,
00:16:00 --> 00:16:02 yeah, Benu, it's funny that the question
00:16:02 --> 00:16:04 should turn up when it does because, uh,
00:16:04 --> 00:16:06 I think Beno's just got back into the
00:16:06 --> 00:16:07 news, has it not?
00:16:07 --> 00:16:09 >> Yes, that's right. There's a really
00:16:09 --> 00:16:11 interesting story which came out this
00:16:11 --> 00:16:14 week in the proceedings
00:16:14 --> 00:16:16 of the National Academy of Science in
00:16:16 --> 00:16:19 the United States. Um, and because this
00:16:19 --> 00:16:21 is a press release, it means I can read
00:16:21 --> 00:16:24 from it with impunity. Uh, and so it
00:16:24 --> 00:16:26 introduces the issue very well.
00:16:26 --> 00:16:28 Scientists studying samples from the
00:16:28 --> 00:16:30 asteroid Bennu have uncovered a
00:16:30 --> 00:16:33 surprisingly complex chemical landscape
00:16:33 --> 00:16:36 at the tiniest scales. A new study shows
00:16:36 --> 00:16:38 that at an extremely small scale,
00:16:38 --> 00:16:41 organic material and minerals inside the
00:16:41 --> 00:16:44 asteroid asteroid Bennu are organized
00:16:44 --> 00:16:46 into three clearly different chemical
00:16:46 --> 00:16:48 groupings. These patterns provide
00:16:48 --> 00:16:51 important clues about how liquid water
00:16:51 --> 00:16:57 once altered the atmosph
00:16:57 --> 00:16:59 relatively close to the Earth. It formed
00:16:59 --> 00:17:01 from fragments left behind after its
00:17:01 --> 00:17:03 original parent body broke apart because
00:17:03 --> 00:17:06 the samples returned from Bennu have not
00:17:06 --> 00:17:08 been exposed to Earth's atmosphere or
00:17:08 --> 00:17:10 whether they offer a rare untouched
00:17:10 --> 00:17:13 record of how water, minerals, and
00:17:13 --> 00:17:15 organic compounds interacted in the
00:17:15 --> 00:17:17 early solar system. So, it's a great
00:17:17 --> 00:17:20 story. Um, and um, it comes from
00:17:20 --> 00:17:24 scientists uh, I think in the US. I'm
00:17:24 --> 00:17:25 not sure actually. That's a good
00:17:25 --> 00:17:27 question. Where are these scientists
00:17:27 --> 00:17:29 from? We might answer that during the
00:17:29 --> 00:17:32 during the talk. But yes, remembering
00:17:32 --> 00:17:35 Bennu, Benu is an asteroid visited by
00:17:35 --> 00:17:38 the spacecraft Osiris Rex uh which had
00:17:38 --> 00:17:41 um a marvelous mechanism on board called
00:17:41 --> 00:17:44 Tag SAM, the touchandgo sample
00:17:44 --> 00:17:47 acquisition mechanism uh which basically
00:17:47 --> 00:17:49 sank the spacecraft onto the asteroid
00:17:49 --> 00:17:52 surface uh and let it grab some of the
00:17:52 --> 00:17:54 soil. Bennu is a rubble pile. It's
00:17:54 --> 00:17:57 shaped very much like two cones end to
00:17:57 --> 00:17:59 end. A typical shape for a rubble pile
00:17:59 --> 00:18:01 asteroid. So what they grabbed was quite
00:18:01 --> 00:18:04 a lot of uh material. Uh I think it was
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07 uh if I remember rightly 60 grams comes
00:18:07 --> 00:18:08 into mind. That might not be the number
00:18:08 --> 00:18:10 but it's something like that. A
00:18:10 --> 00:18:14 significant amount. So asteroid Bennu is
00:18:14 --> 00:18:16 very much in the headlines. A lot of
00:18:16 --> 00:18:20 interesting stuff. Um the um the paper
00:18:20 --> 00:18:24 that uh re reveals these results is
00:18:24 --> 00:18:27 called nanocale infrared spectroscopy
00:18:27 --> 00:18:29 reveals complex organic mineral
00:18:29 --> 00:18:32 assemblages in asteroid Bennu. So that
00:18:32 --> 00:18:34 seems to be the crucial aspect of this.
00:18:34 --> 00:18:37 Not the minerals and organic or carbon
00:18:37 --> 00:18:40 containing molecules uh that are there
00:18:40 --> 00:18:42 but the fact that they're organized in
00:18:42 --> 00:18:45 such a way that they have been subjected
00:18:45 --> 00:18:48 to water related processes and that
00:18:48 --> 00:18:52 means basically liquid water.
00:18:52 --> 00:18:54 >> It's quite extraordinary. Uh once again
00:18:54 --> 00:18:56 reading from the press release, these
00:18:56 --> 00:18:59 uneven nanocale structures indicate that
00:18:59 --> 00:19:02 water did not affect Bennu in a single
00:19:02 --> 00:19:04 uniform way. Instead, water interacted
00:19:04 --> 00:19:06 differently in separate areas, producing
00:19:06 --> 00:19:08 a patchwork of chemical environments
00:19:08 --> 00:19:11 across the asteroid. It's almost poetic,
00:19:11 --> 00:19:12 isn't it?
00:19:12 --> 00:19:16 >> It is. It is. Uh from my research, uh
00:19:16 --> 00:19:20 the sample return was 121.6 g of
00:19:20 --> 00:19:21 material.
00:19:21 --> 00:19:22 >> There you go.
00:19:22 --> 00:19:25 >> 4.29. half right
00:19:25 --> 00:19:27 >> 4.29 O and
00:19:27 --> 00:19:30 >> you're right they um the the the authors
00:19:30 --> 00:19:33 are from the United States um places
00:19:33 --> 00:19:37 like uh the department of geosciences
00:19:37 --> 00:19:41 um Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
00:19:41 --> 00:19:44 etc. So yes, definitely a USbased
00:19:44 --> 00:19:47 uh based study that uh has has been
00:19:47 --> 00:19:50 released on on the latest from uh
00:19:50 --> 00:19:53 asteroid Bennu. Um I'm just trying to
00:19:53 --> 00:19:55 remember where that sample landed. Was
00:19:55 --> 00:19:57 that the one that landed in Australia or
00:19:57 --> 00:19:58 was that another one?
00:19:58 --> 00:19:59 >> That was
00:19:59 --> 00:20:01 >> No, that was a Japanese mission, wasn't
00:20:01 --> 00:20:01 it?
00:20:02 --> 00:20:04 >> So Benu's sample Sirius Rex is the
00:20:04 --> 00:20:07 spacecraft which I think is on its way
00:20:07 --> 00:20:09 might be on its way to Apous. It's been
00:20:09 --> 00:20:10 redirected. I can't remember where it's
00:20:10 --> 00:20:12 going though. What it did was dropped a
00:20:12 --> 00:20:16 capsule which has the uh which has the
00:20:16 --> 00:20:19 um uh samples in it and they landed in
00:20:19 --> 00:20:22 Utah. That's where the landing site was.
00:20:22 --> 00:20:24 Uh our samples that came to Australia
00:20:24 --> 00:20:25 are from the two Hayabusa missions, the
00:20:25 --> 00:20:28 two Japanese asteroid sample return
00:20:28 --> 00:20:29 missions.
00:20:29 --> 00:20:31 >> Yeah. And you're right. It's headed for
00:20:31 --> 00:20:32 Apous.
00:20:32 --> 00:20:34 >> Good. I thought it was
00:20:34 --> 00:20:36 >> they refer to it as a mission extension
00:20:36 --> 00:20:39 to study um a near-Earth asteroid. and
00:20:39 --> 00:20:43 it should arrive in April of 2029.
00:20:43 --> 00:20:45 So, they're extraordinarily long
00:20:45 --> 00:20:47 missions, aren't they? When you when
00:20:47 --> 00:20:49 you're out there in the
00:20:49 --> 00:20:50 >> in the nether regions of the solar
00:20:50 --> 00:20:52 system.
00:20:52 --> 00:20:54 >> That's right. It's um you know, that's
00:20:54 --> 00:20:57 just the way space works. You kind of
00:20:57 --> 00:20:59 tied tied up with gravity and time and
00:21:00 --> 00:21:01 you can't really do much about either of
00:21:01 --> 00:21:02 those two things.
00:21:02 --> 00:21:05 >> Oh, you can in a science fiction story.
00:21:05 --> 00:21:06 Yes. Amazing what you can do in a
00:21:06 --> 00:21:07 science fiction book.
00:21:07 --> 00:21:10 >> Stories. Yes.
00:21:10 --> 00:21:12 And I keep saying it, a lot of science
00:21:12 --> 00:21:14 fiction has turned into reality over the
00:21:14 --> 00:21:16 years. So,
00:21:16 --> 00:21:19 um, you know, you never know. In fact, I
00:21:19 --> 00:21:21 can't remember what the what the the
00:21:21 --> 00:21:24 problem was, but they they did actually
00:21:24 --> 00:21:27 not so long ago, um, get science fiction
00:21:27 --> 00:21:30 writers together. I don't know if it was
00:21:30 --> 00:21:32 NASA or someone else to try and solve a
00:21:32 --> 00:21:33 problem that they couldn't get their
00:21:33 --> 00:21:35 heads around to see if the science
00:21:35 --> 00:21:37 fiction community could come up with an
00:21:37 --> 00:21:39 answer for them. Can't remember any more
00:21:40 --> 00:21:41 about it than that. And I wish I could
00:21:41 --> 00:21:43 because I the story fascinated me. They
00:21:44 --> 00:21:45 never called me Fred.
00:21:46 --> 00:21:49 obviously sold anything
00:21:49 --> 00:21:50 >> your
00:21:50 --> 00:21:52 I would think being a best-selling
00:21:52 --> 00:21:55 author of one or two copies that have
00:21:55 --> 00:21:57 been sold over the years that I would be
00:21:57 --> 00:22:01 the go-to guy.
00:22:01 --> 00:22:02 >> Not the case.
00:22:02 --> 00:22:04 >> Not the case. Um have we finished
00:22:04 --> 00:22:06 answering that question?
00:22:06 --> 00:22:09 >> Yes. Basically, there's a lot going on.
00:22:09 --> 00:22:11 Um you know, I urge David just to check
00:22:11 --> 00:22:13 it out on the web. this um quite a lot
00:22:14 --> 00:22:16 of stuff on on Benu. It's u it's been
00:22:16 --> 00:22:18 interesting. I've I've I've noticed over
00:22:18 --> 00:22:21 the last few weeks things popping out
00:22:21 --> 00:22:23 particularly about the minerals which
00:22:23 --> 00:22:25 have been water affected which in itself
00:22:25 --> 00:22:26 tells you something about where it's
00:22:26 --> 00:22:28 come from somewhere where there was
00:22:28 --> 00:22:29 liquid water.
00:22:29 --> 00:22:31 >> That is fascinating.
00:22:31 --> 00:22:35 >> Yeah. Um and yes uh that um paper was
00:22:35 --> 00:22:38 published on sciencedaily.com
00:22:38 --> 00:22:40 uh David if you want to check it out. Um
00:22:40 --> 00:22:42 and it was published the paper was
00:22:42 --> 00:22:46 published on the 31st of March. Uh an
00:22:46 --> 00:22:47 auspicious day in history Fred I must
00:22:48 --> 00:22:51 say. Yeah. Um yes
00:22:51 --> 00:22:53 a certain non-successful science fiction
00:22:53 --> 00:22:57 writer was born on that day.
00:22:57 --> 00:22:59 >> So yes yesterday was
00:22:59 --> 00:23:01 >> yesterday our time. Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:01 --> 00:23:04 >> So that was your 64th. Is that right?
00:23:04 --> 00:23:06 >> Yes. I can I can uh officially play that
00:23:06 --> 00:23:07 Beatles song now.
00:23:07 --> 00:23:09 >> Good on you. I was just about to say
00:23:09 --> 00:23:11 that.
00:23:11 --> 00:23:12 >> Yeah,
00:23:12 --> 00:23:14 >> it's okay.
00:23:14 --> 00:23:15 >> Good old Paul McCartney. He hit the nail
00:23:15 --> 00:23:16 on the head.
00:23:16 --> 00:23:18 >> Yeah, I watched his doco the other day.
00:23:18 --> 00:23:20 They had they released a doco about him.
00:23:20 --> 00:23:23 Gosh, it's amazing what I didn't know
00:23:23 --> 00:23:25 about him.
00:23:25 --> 00:23:27 >> That's that's come out now. It's um
00:23:27 --> 00:23:30 yeah, quite incredible. But that's a
00:23:30 --> 00:23:32 different story. Completely different
00:23:32 --> 00:23:35 story. But uh yeah, 64. Can't believe
00:23:35 --> 00:23:37 it. Um, anyway, when I told my
00:23:37 --> 00:23:39 grandchildren I was 64, they looked at
00:23:39 --> 00:23:41 me and said, "And you're still alive?"
00:23:41 --> 00:23:44 No, they didn't.
00:23:44 --> 00:23:45 I said, "Well, hang on a minute. You
00:23:45 --> 00:23:47 should meet Fred." No, I didn't say that
00:23:47 --> 00:23:49 either.
00:23:49 --> 00:23:55 >> I remember 64 just about.
00:23:55 --> 00:23:57 >> Oh dear. All right, let's move on. Uh,
00:23:57 --> 00:23:59 thank you, David. Um, yeah, good news
00:23:59 --> 00:24:01 about Benu and yeah, they've just
00:24:01 --> 00:24:03 published that paper on my birthday. Uh,
00:24:03 --> 00:24:06 our final question, uh, comes from
00:24:06 --> 00:24:08 Keith. Hello, gentlemen. Oh, well, he
00:24:08 --> 00:24:09 got that wrong straight away. Uh, this
00:24:09 --> 00:24:12 is Keith from Washington State, USA.
00:24:12 --> 00:24:14 This is my first time asking a question.
00:24:14 --> 00:24:15 We've had a couple of newbies on the
00:24:15 --> 00:24:17 show today. Uh, looking forward to your
00:24:17 --> 00:24:20 explanation. From what I understand,
00:24:20 --> 00:24:22 neutrinos travel vast distances through
00:24:22 --> 00:24:26 space and even from our own sun. Uh,
00:24:26 --> 00:24:28 they they pass through our bodies every
00:24:28 --> 00:24:31 second and easily through the Earth. But
00:24:31 --> 00:24:33 do they travel straight through a black
00:24:33 --> 00:24:36 hole or are they captured by it?
00:24:36 --> 00:24:38 Appreciate you guys and love the
00:24:38 --> 00:24:40 podcast. Look forward to every episode.
00:24:40 --> 00:24:42 Thank you, Keith. Hope all is well in
00:24:42 --> 00:24:43 Washington State. That's on the
00:24:43 --> 00:24:45 northwest corner of the United States.
00:24:46 --> 00:24:48 Seattle's in Washington State. I love
00:24:48 --> 00:24:50 Seattle. Bent went there a year bit over
00:24:50 --> 00:24:53 or couple of years ago now. Um terrific
00:24:53 --> 00:24:56 place. Terrific. Uh current Super Bowl
00:24:56 --> 00:24:59 champions Seahawks.
00:25:00 --> 00:25:01 I knew you'd be interested in that,
00:25:01 --> 00:25:02 Fred.
00:25:02 --> 00:25:05 >> Keep talking cuz I'm just googling this.
00:25:05 --> 00:25:08 >> I kind of figured I needed to pad, but I
00:25:08 --> 00:25:10 didn't pad long enough. Yeah. See, I'm
00:25:10 --> 00:25:12 I'm out of practice.
00:25:12 --> 00:25:14 >> I'm out of practice. I haven't been on
00:25:14 --> 00:25:17 radio for two years now, so I don't need
00:25:17 --> 00:25:19 to add lib like I used to. It used to be
00:25:19 --> 00:25:21 really funny when something went
00:25:21 --> 00:25:22 horribly wrong and you knew you had to
00:25:22 --> 00:25:25 fix it while you were talking. And have
00:25:25 --> 00:25:27 you ever tried to thread a tape on a
00:25:27 --> 00:25:29 realtore recorder while you're talking
00:25:29 --> 00:25:33 to an audience and making sense of what
00:25:33 --> 00:25:34 you're saying and you don't even know
00:25:34 --> 00:25:38 what you're Yeah. Gosh, it can be a fun
00:25:38 --> 00:25:42 moment. I miss those days so much.
00:25:42 --> 00:25:44 >> Are you Are you good now?
00:25:44 --> 00:25:46 >> Yes.
00:25:46 --> 00:25:49 I just I just you've conjured up an
00:25:49 --> 00:25:51 entirely different picture in my head of
00:25:51 --> 00:25:53 you threading a realtore recorder which
00:25:53 --> 00:25:54 I used to remember
00:25:54 --> 00:25:56 >> doing. The one the one piece of kit that
00:25:56 --> 00:25:59 I'd like that I don't have is a realtore
00:25:59 --> 00:25:59 machine.
00:25:59 --> 00:26:02 >> I can steal one for you. I I know I know
00:26:02 --> 00:26:04 a guy in town who's got one
00:26:04 --> 00:26:06 >> and if I took it he wouldn't notice for
00:26:06 --> 00:26:07 a few years.
00:26:07 --> 00:26:11 >> No,
00:26:11 --> 00:26:12 >> tell me more offline.
00:26:12 --> 00:26:15 >> Yes, I will. Yes. Good morning, Richard.
00:26:15 --> 00:26:16 Uh, hi Richard.
00:26:16 --> 00:26:18 >> Um,
00:26:18 --> 00:26:20 >> yeah, but look, what we're talking about
00:26:20 --> 00:26:22 radio, I it's changed so much because
00:26:22 --> 00:26:25 it's all digital now. So, you don't
00:26:25 --> 00:26:26 really
00:26:26 --> 00:26:30 >> all those those um what what do you call
00:26:30 --> 00:26:31 them? Skills
00:26:31 --> 00:26:33 >> that you developed in radio like like
00:26:33 --> 00:26:37 like cut splicing tape and and and drop
00:26:37 --> 00:26:38 editing and
00:26:38 --> 00:26:40 >> all of those special talents, they're
00:26:40 --> 00:26:43 gone. They're just gone. If you gave
00:26:43 --> 00:26:44 someone a a realtore to real tape and
00:26:44 --> 00:26:46 said, "Here, can you just um edit that
00:26:46 --> 00:26:49 piece out for me? Here's a razor blade."
00:26:49 --> 00:26:53 They'd go, "What?
00:26:53 --> 00:26:55 >> Remember to to make the cut diagonally
00:26:55 --> 00:26:57 so that it doesn't impair the sound
00:26:57 --> 00:26:58 quality."
00:26:58 --> 00:27:00 >> Exactly. Yeah, that's that's how it
00:27:00 --> 00:27:01 works.
00:27:01 --> 00:27:02 >> Yeah.
00:27:02 --> 00:27:04 >> In fact, splicing block the splicing
00:27:04 --> 00:27:06 block had the had the slots in it so you
00:27:06 --> 00:27:09 could do the diagonal cut and and it was
00:27:09 --> 00:27:11 made in a way so that the tape actually
00:27:11 --> 00:27:12 just
00:27:12 --> 00:27:14 sat in there without folding up or
00:27:14 --> 00:27:17 rolling around or slipping was
00:27:17 --> 00:27:20 brilliantly p made piece of kit as Fred
00:27:20 --> 00:27:23 would say to to keep the tape still.
00:27:23 --> 00:27:26 >> I bet look all this all this all these
00:27:26 --> 00:27:27 memories. Gosh,
00:27:27 --> 00:27:30 >> I think I've ped enough now, Fred.
00:27:30 --> 00:27:32 >> Yeah, I'm sure
00:27:32 --> 00:27:35 >> a tape splicing block. It's how do you
00:27:35 --> 00:27:37 splice neutrinos? That's the question.
00:27:37 --> 00:27:39 >> Well, why do they splice or can they
00:27:39 --> 00:27:41 splice a black hole? That's the That's
00:27:41 --> 00:27:43 the question.
00:27:43 --> 00:27:45 >> That's the worst segue I think we've
00:27:45 --> 00:27:47 ever made, but that will do. It's as
00:27:47 --> 00:27:50 good as it gets. Adequacy is all we aim
00:27:50 --> 00:27:53 for. Um, but neutrinos are indeed
00:27:53 --> 00:27:55 affected by gravity, as you'd expect.
00:27:56 --> 00:27:58 Um, because they're particles. They're
00:27:58 --> 00:28:01 subatomic particles. And so once uh a
00:28:01 --> 00:28:03 neutrino crosses the event horizon, then
00:28:03 --> 00:28:05 it's doomed. It will be absorbed by the
00:28:06 --> 00:28:09 black hole just like light basically. um
00:28:09 --> 00:28:11 they they hardly interact with normal
00:28:11 --> 00:28:15 matter uh exactly as Keith mentions. Uh
00:28:15 --> 00:28:18 but they do h feel the force of gravity
00:28:18 --> 00:28:22 or the the um what base of gravity and
00:28:22 --> 00:28:24 they just get pulled in in the same way
00:28:24 --> 00:28:28 as uh as a any other particle. So the
00:28:28 --> 00:28:32 answer is yes. Um and it's
00:28:32 --> 00:28:34 you know it's a really interesting
00:28:34 --> 00:28:36 subatomic particle. We used to think for
00:28:36 --> 00:28:39 a while that maybe nutrinos made up the
00:28:39 --> 00:28:41 dark matter of the universe, but it
00:28:41 --> 00:28:43 turns out from other studies that they
00:28:43 --> 00:28:45 don't have enough mass to do that. Uh so
00:28:45 --> 00:28:47 they're not the culprits, but there are
00:28:47 --> 00:28:49 a lot of them.
00:28:49 --> 00:28:52 >> I think uh um David mentioned, sorry,
00:28:52 --> 00:28:55 Keith begg mentioned the um the nutr the
00:28:55 --> 00:28:59 sun solar neutrinos and for a long time
00:28:59 --> 00:29:01 that was there was a problem there. I
00:29:01 --> 00:29:03 think it was that we didn't see enough
00:29:03 --> 00:29:07 neutrinos coming from the sun to agree
00:29:07 --> 00:29:08 with theory and that was called the
00:29:08 --> 00:29:10 solar neutrino problem. I think that was
00:29:10 --> 00:29:12 the way round it was. But I believe that
00:29:12 --> 00:29:16 has now been basically solved by both
00:29:16 --> 00:29:18 observational and theoretical
00:29:18 --> 00:29:21 astronomers. I should um go down a
00:29:21 --> 00:29:22 rabbit hole and chase all that because
00:29:22 --> 00:29:25 um my knowledge of neutrinos is really
00:29:25 --> 00:29:28 really a little bit sad.
00:29:28 --> 00:29:32 Uh it's got uh it does have uh the one
00:29:32 --> 00:29:35 joke that I remember about neutrinos uh
00:29:35 --> 00:29:38 which is probably not worth relating.
00:29:38 --> 00:29:40 >> Oh, now you've got to say it.
00:29:40 --> 00:29:43 Well, it was when there was this idea
00:29:43 --> 00:29:45 that the Large Hadron Collider had
00:29:45 --> 00:29:48 generated a neutrino that turned up at a
00:29:48 --> 00:29:52 detector in Grand Sasso in in um Italy
00:29:52 --> 00:29:54 uh sooner than it would have done if it
00:29:54 --> 00:29:57 had not been traveling at less than the
00:29:57 --> 00:29:59 speed of light. And so it became known
00:29:59 --> 00:30:02 as the faster than light neutrino. Um in
00:30:02 --> 00:30:04 the end it was debunked. They found it
00:30:04 --> 00:30:07 was due to a loose connection in the
00:30:07 --> 00:30:09 detector. Uh which led to the director
00:30:09 --> 00:30:12 of Grand Sasso resigning. Actually was
00:30:12 --> 00:30:15 so ashamed of what his institution had
00:30:15 --> 00:30:15 done.
00:30:15 --> 00:30:17 >> I remember that now.
00:30:17 --> 00:30:21 >> But the joke is uh the joke is I'm sorry
00:30:21 --> 00:30:23 we don't allow faster than night light
00:30:23 --> 00:30:26 nutrinos into our bar. A faster than
00:30:26 --> 00:30:28 light neutrino walked into a bar. That's
00:30:28 --> 00:30:31 the joke.
00:30:31 --> 00:30:33 Okay.
00:30:33 --> 00:30:35 That's pretty good though.
00:30:35 --> 00:30:36 >> I think it's a good one, too. I wish it
00:30:36 --> 00:30:37 was mine, but
00:30:37 --> 00:30:40 >> that is pretty good. Yeah. But what I
00:30:40 --> 00:30:42 find difficult to get my head around is
00:30:42 --> 00:30:44 that these things pass through the
00:30:44 --> 00:30:45 planet. I mean,
00:30:45 --> 00:30:47 >> yes, they do. Oh, yeah. They don't
00:30:47 --> 00:30:49 notice the planet at all.
00:30:49 --> 00:30:52 >> Yeah. But there is a detector. There's
00:30:52 --> 00:30:53 the ice cube detector down in
00:30:53 --> 00:30:56 Antarctica. This is a cube of ice. It's
00:30:56 --> 00:30:59 a 1 kilometer cube of ice which is got
00:30:59 --> 00:31:02 it's um basically uh not festoned so
00:31:02 --> 00:31:05 much as impre impregnated with many many
00:31:05 --> 00:31:08 optical detectors that would sense the
00:31:08 --> 00:31:12 flash of light. If a neutrino actually
00:31:12 --> 00:31:15 did collide and interact with a a normal
00:31:15 --> 00:31:17 particle uh then you'd get a flash of
00:31:17 --> 00:31:20 light uh which it would be detectable in
00:31:20 --> 00:31:21 ice cube and I think they've had
00:31:21 --> 00:31:24 detections as well. Oh, interesting.
00:31:24 --> 00:31:27 Fascinating even.
00:31:27 --> 00:31:29 All right. Uh, Keith, I think we covered
00:31:29 --> 00:31:32 it. Did we cover it?
00:31:32 --> 00:31:34 >> We Well, we answered the question, but I
00:31:34 --> 00:31:35 think that was a value added question,
00:31:36 --> 00:31:36 Keith.
00:31:36 --> 00:31:38 >> Yes, it was. It's got lots of bonus
00:31:38 --> 00:31:40 material in there. Probably boring as
00:31:40 --> 00:31:43 you know, or whatever, an old sock. But,
00:31:43 --> 00:31:44 uh,
00:31:44 --> 00:31:45 >> oh dear.
00:31:45 --> 00:31:48 >> We got there in the end. Uh, thank you,
00:31:48 --> 00:31:49 Keith. Thank you everybody who sent
00:31:49 --> 00:31:51 questions in. If you do have questions
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53 for us, please go to our website and
00:31:53 --> 00:31:55 send them in on the ask me anything tab
00:31:55 --> 00:31:59 at the top. Just click a the AMA letters
00:31:59 --> 00:32:01 and there's an interface there where you
00:32:01 --> 00:32:04 can send us text and audio questions.
00:32:04 --> 00:32:05 Please remember to tell us who you are
00:32:05 --> 00:32:07 and where you're from. And uh we'll do
00:32:07 --> 00:32:11 our very best to answer them all. Uh and
00:32:11 --> 00:32:13 again, we we're just yeah, we're on the
00:32:13 --> 00:32:14 cusp of not quite having enough
00:32:14 --> 00:32:16 questions. Got a lot of text questions,
00:32:16 --> 00:32:18 but audio questions are few and far
00:32:18 --> 00:32:19 between for some reason.
00:32:20 --> 00:32:22 But um who knows uh get them into us.
00:32:22 --> 00:32:24 We'd love to hear from you. We love all
00:32:24 --> 00:32:26 these uh voices, all the different
00:32:26 --> 00:32:28 people from around the world. It's it's
00:32:28 --> 00:32:31 fantastic. Uh and thank you Fred as
00:32:31 --> 00:32:34 always. It's been a great pleasure.
00:32:34 --> 00:32:36 >> It has indeed. And good to talk to you
00:32:36 --> 00:32:38 uh this week and hopefully we'll do it
00:32:38 --> 00:32:39 again next week.
00:32:39 --> 00:32:41 >> Yes indeed. And I'll get back to you on
00:32:41 --> 00:32:45 that free realtore tape recorder. Fred.
00:32:45 --> 00:32:47 >> Yeah. Nudge nudge wink wink. uh,
00:32:47 --> 00:32:49 Professor Fred Watson, astronomer at
00:32:49 --> 00:32:51 large, part of the team here, uh, on the
00:32:51 --> 00:32:53 Space Nuts podcast. And, uh, thanks to
00:32:53 --> 00:32:56 Hugh in the studio, who couldn't be with
00:32:56 --> 00:32:58 us today. He's a bit slow. He's an old
00:32:58 --> 00:33:02 Trino. And, um, yeah, he can't even get
00:33:02 --> 00:33:05 through a door. And from me, Andrew
00:33:05 --> 00:33:07 Dunley, thanks for your company. We'll
00:33:07 --> 00:33:10 see see you on the next episode of Space
00:33:10 --> 00:33:11 Nuts. Bye-bye.
00:33:11 --> 00:33:12 >> Space Nuts.
00:33:12 --> 00:33:14 >> You've been listening to the Space Nuts
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