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Temperature of Black Holes, Cosmic Mapping, and the Nature of Space
In this thought-provoking episode of Space Nuts , hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson tackle some of the most intriguing questions from their audience. Join them as they delve into the chilling temperatures of black holes, the expansive mapping of the universe by cutting-edge telescopes, and the enigmatic nature of space itself.
Episode Highlights:
- The Temperature of Black Holes: Andrew and Fred discuss Casey's question regarding the temperature of black holes. They explore the stark contrast between the scorching accretion disks and the surprisingly frigid temperatures within the event horizons, shedding light on the complexities of black hole physics.
- Mapping the Universe: Eli's inquiry about the James Webb and Vera Rubin telescopes leads to a fascinating discussion on how much of the universe has been mapped and what we can expect in the coming decade. The hosts highlight the capabilities of these telescopes and the potential discoveries that await.
- The Emptiness of Space: Robert poses a thought-provoking question about the nature of space and the Higgs boson. Andrew and Fred unravel the concept of the Higgs field, discussing its implications for our understanding of the universe and whether space is truly empty or filled with these elusive particles.
- The Impact of Dark Matter and Energy: Rennie challenges the hosts to consider how discovering the true nature of dark matter and dark energy might affect life on Earth. Andrew and Fred reflect on the long-term benefits of such knowledge, drawing parallels to historical scientific advancements.
For more Space Nuts, including our continuously updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. (https://www.spacenutspodcast.com/) Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on Facebook, Instagram, and more. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favorite platform.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
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Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/31318370?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Hi there. Thanks for joining us again.
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 This is a Q&A uh edition of Space Nuts,
00:00:05 --> 00:00:08 where we uh take audience questions and
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 we pretend that we know what we're
00:00:10 --> 00:00:12 talking about in attempting to answer
00:00:12 --> 00:00:15 them or we get it right sometimes, too.
00:00:15 --> 00:00:18 Uh today we're going to be answering a
00:00:18 --> 00:00:20 question about uh the temperature of
00:00:20 --> 00:00:23 black holes. Uh I I'm not sure we've
00:00:23 --> 00:00:25 been there before. It may have come up,
00:00:25 --> 00:00:28 but um I can't remember when. uh and a
00:00:28 --> 00:00:30 question uh asking with the James Webb
00:00:30 --> 00:00:33 Space Telescope and the Vera Rubin
00:00:33 --> 00:00:35 telescope how much of the universe has
00:00:35 --> 00:00:39 been mapped. I can tell you this much uh
00:00:39 --> 00:00:42 and the emptiness of space is being
00:00:42 --> 00:00:45 questioned and what difference will it
00:00:45 --> 00:00:48 make to humanity uh if we find dark
00:00:48 --> 00:00:52 matter and dark energy? Um that's a
00:00:52 --> 00:00:54 really interesting question and Fred
00:00:54 --> 00:00:55 knows the answer. We'll ask him shortly
00:00:55 --> 00:00:58 on this edition of Space Nuts.
00:00:58 --> 00:01:03 >> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9
00:01:03 --> 00:01:04 Ignition sequence start.
00:01:04 --> 00:01:05 >> Space nuts.
00:01:05 --> 00:01:08 >> 5 4 3 2
00:01:08 --> 00:01:10 >> 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1
00:01:10 --> 00:01:11 >> Space Nuts.
00:01:11 --> 00:01:14 >> Astronauts report. It feels good.
00:01:14 --> 00:01:16 >> And he's back. And he has all the
00:01:16 --> 00:01:18 answers to all the questions of life,
00:01:18 --> 00:01:19 the universe, and everything. Professor
00:01:19 --> 00:01:21 Fred Watson, astronomer at large. Hello,
00:01:21 --> 00:01:24 Fred.
00:01:24 --> 00:01:25 No pressure there, Andrew.
00:01:25 --> 00:01:27 >> None at all. None at all.
00:01:27 --> 00:01:28 >> No pressure. That's right.
00:01:28 --> 00:01:30 >> Uh let's get straight into it, shall we?
00:01:30 --> 00:01:33 Um uh one of our regular contributors is
00:01:34 --> 00:01:36 Casey, who has a very interesting
00:01:36 --> 00:01:38 question about a subject we never
00:01:38 --> 00:01:40 discuss, black holes.
00:01:40 --> 00:01:43 >> Hi guys, this is Casey from Colorado and
00:01:43 --> 00:01:44 I was thinking about the temperature of
00:01:44 --> 00:01:47 black holes. I know that the accretion
00:01:47 --> 00:01:49 disc would be very hot, but I was
00:01:49 --> 00:01:51 wondering once you get past the event
00:01:51 --> 00:01:54 horizon if it would be hot or cold. Why
00:01:54 --> 00:01:57 do we think this? Thanks for the podcast
00:01:57 --> 00:02:00 and I hope you're both well. Thanks.
00:02:00 --> 00:02:01 >> Thank you, Casey. She's got me thinking
00:02:01 --> 00:02:03 about the temperature in Colorado
00:02:03 --> 00:02:05 because like we're facing some horrific
00:02:06 --> 00:02:07 temperatures around here at the moment,
00:02:07 --> 00:02:09 but I' i'd imagine it'd be quite the
00:02:09 --> 00:02:11 opposite in Colorado this time of the
00:02:11 --> 00:02:13 year.
00:02:13 --> 00:02:15 Yeah, I think that's that's absolutely
00:02:15 --> 00:02:17 right. Yes. But part of the world in
00:02:18 --> 00:02:19 winter.
00:02:19 --> 00:02:23 >> Absolutely. Um, now temperature of black
00:02:23 --> 00:02:24 holes. This this one's interesting
00:02:24 --> 00:02:27 because I suppose it varies on several
00:02:27 --> 00:02:29 factors. Um, where you are, what you're
00:02:30 --> 00:02:32 doing.
00:02:32 --> 00:02:34 I don't know what
00:02:34 --> 00:02:36 I would like. It's not like the not like
00:02:36 --> 00:02:39 the temperature of the sun, is it?
00:02:39 --> 00:02:43 >> No. No, it's not. Um, it's it's a re I'm
00:02:43 --> 00:02:46 I'm so glad Casey asked this question
00:02:46 --> 00:02:48 because it sent me down a rabbit hole I
00:02:48 --> 00:02:49 haven't been down before.
00:02:49 --> 00:02:50 >> Oh, wow.
00:02:50 --> 00:02:52 >> Uh, in and it leads you straight to
00:02:52 --> 00:02:57 quantum theory. Uh, uh, and um, it's,
00:02:57 --> 00:03:00 you know, it's a it really in a sense
00:03:00 --> 00:03:02 it's quite unexpected
00:03:02 --> 00:03:06 uh, what's what's happening. Uh so um
00:03:06 --> 00:03:10 the bottom line is whilst as Casey
00:03:10 --> 00:03:13 exactly as Casey says the accretion disc
00:03:13 --> 00:03:15 of the black hole is extremely hot uh
00:03:16 --> 00:03:17 and you know we're talking millions of
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19 degrees there because this that's where
00:03:20 --> 00:03:22 you get X-ray radiation from. It's the
00:03:22 --> 00:03:24 the stuff charging around the accretion
00:03:24 --> 00:03:26 disc uh that's uh swirling around the
00:03:26 --> 00:03:29 the black hole itself. But the black
00:03:29 --> 00:03:32 hole itself
00:03:32 --> 00:03:35 is the opposite. It's really really
00:03:35 --> 00:03:41 cold. Um, and basically, uh, it's
00:03:41 --> 00:03:45 because the the amount of radiation
00:03:45 --> 00:03:50 that they, uh, that they release is at a
00:03:50 --> 00:03:55 level uh, which means its temperature is
00:03:55 --> 00:03:57 measured in gazillionth of a degree.
00:03:57 --> 00:04:01 It's virtually absolute zero.
00:04:01 --> 00:04:04 um they they
00:04:04 --> 00:04:07 basically they're
00:04:07 --> 00:04:10 it's quite a a nice way of putting it um
00:04:10 --> 00:04:14 which which I've uh summarized uh I
00:04:14 --> 00:04:17 think this comes from Wikipedia. It may
00:04:17 --> 00:04:19 come from AI actually. But the bottom
00:04:19 --> 00:04:22 line is even though black holes pull in
00:04:22 --> 00:04:24 matter and energy, their temperature is
00:04:24 --> 00:04:28 incredibly low because their large mass
00:04:28 --> 00:04:31 makes their event horizons effectively
00:04:31 --> 00:04:34 cold thermal emitters, absorbing energy
00:04:34 --> 00:04:37 faster than they radiate it at these
00:04:37 --> 00:04:39 scales. So that's the key to what's
00:04:39 --> 00:04:42 happening that like everything else,
00:04:42 --> 00:04:45 black holes suck stuff. it sucks stuff
00:04:45 --> 00:04:49 in uh and that stuff is matter which is
00:04:49 --> 00:04:52 equivalent to energy uh and because it's
00:04:52 --> 00:04:54 stuff that's going in and not radiating
00:04:54 --> 00:04:57 outwards uh even though there is what we
00:04:57 --> 00:04:59 call Hawking radiation which I'll get to
00:04:59 --> 00:05:03 in a second but that that um you know
00:05:03 --> 00:05:05 the uh what it means is that the the
00:05:05 --> 00:05:08 fact that there there's an energy input
00:05:08 --> 00:05:11 into the black hole it means that to the
00:05:11 --> 00:05:14 outside observer they look cold. They
00:05:14 --> 00:05:16 look very very cold. There is a
00:05:16 --> 00:05:20 relationship as you said uh we it might
00:05:20 --> 00:05:22 vary with some things and what it varies
00:05:22 --> 00:05:25 with uh is actually the mass of the
00:05:25 --> 00:05:29 black hole. Uh it's it's roughly uh an
00:05:29 --> 00:05:32 inverse proportionality proportionality
00:05:32 --> 00:05:34 the the temperature is inversely
00:05:34 --> 00:05:38 proportional to the mass. Um, and what
00:05:38 --> 00:05:40 that means is for super massive black
00:05:40 --> 00:05:43 holes, they are extremely cold. Uh, and
00:05:43 --> 00:05:45 that sort of figures because they're
00:05:45 --> 00:05:47 sucking in more energy and so the
00:05:47 --> 00:05:49 surface to an outside observer would
00:05:49 --> 00:05:51 look colder. Uh, they're talking about
00:05:51 --> 00:05:56 10 the minus14° Kelvin. U something with
00:05:56 --> 00:06:02 the mass of the sun um is a barmy 10us
00:06:02 --> 00:06:07 7° Kelvin. It's still virtually zero,
00:06:07 --> 00:06:10 but it's more uh more than the super
00:06:10 --> 00:06:11 massive black holes. So something the
00:06:11 --> 00:06:13 mass of the sun. So it's inversely
00:06:13 --> 00:06:16 proportional to the mass uh that inverse
00:06:16 --> 00:06:21 relationship. Uh and so so that's that's
00:06:21 --> 00:06:25 kind of what it's the Hawking radiation
00:06:25 --> 00:06:30 that gives the black hole a temperature
00:06:30 --> 00:06:33 essentially. It's because it's it's
00:06:33 --> 00:06:36 emitting radiation. Um, and we've talked
00:06:36 --> 00:06:37 about Hawking radiation before. Even
00:06:37 --> 00:06:39 though everything gets sucked into a
00:06:39 --> 00:06:40 black hole, there's this quantum
00:06:40 --> 00:06:44 situation where you can get um two
00:06:44 --> 00:06:46 virtual particles being created from
00:06:46 --> 00:06:48 nothing in empty space. One gets trapped
00:06:48 --> 00:06:50 by the black hole, the other doesn't.
00:06:50 --> 00:06:52 And so we see that as Hawking radiation
00:06:52 --> 00:06:55 uh suggested by Steven Hawking in the
00:06:55 --> 00:06:58 1970s now very well established. Uh but
00:06:58 --> 00:07:00 yeah to summarize the bottom line is
00:07:00 --> 00:07:03 Casey's uh question is a good one uh
00:07:03 --> 00:07:05 because it turns out that black holes
00:07:05 --> 00:07:08 are very very cold indeed despite the
00:07:08 --> 00:07:11 intense heat of the accretion disc. Work
00:07:11 --> 00:07:12 that one out. It's a really hard thing
00:07:12 --> 00:07:15 to to put your imagination around.
00:07:15 --> 00:07:17 >> I suppose you'd compare it to the heat
00:07:17 --> 00:07:19 on the It's got nothing to do with it at
00:07:19 --> 00:07:22 all, but by example the heat on the sun
00:07:22 --> 00:07:25 side of Mercury versus the cool on the
00:07:25 --> 00:07:28 shadow side. They're so extreme.
00:07:28 --> 00:07:29 >> Um.
00:07:29 --> 00:07:31 >> Yes. Yeah, that's right.
00:07:31 --> 00:07:34 >> For the same reason.
00:07:34 --> 00:07:36 >> Well, similar because the dark side of
00:07:36 --> 00:07:39 Mercury is cold uh because it's
00:07:39 --> 00:07:42 radiating energy into space.
00:07:42 --> 00:07:47 >> Um uh whereas uh and that that energy
00:07:47 --> 00:07:49 loss reduces the temperature. Whereas
00:07:49 --> 00:07:50 with a black hole, it's the other way
00:07:50 --> 00:07:52 around. The thing is the thing is
00:07:52 --> 00:07:54 sucking energy in at a greater rate than
00:07:54 --> 00:07:59 it's emitting energy. Uh so Mercury
00:07:59 --> 00:08:00 would Mercury's dark side would lose
00:08:00 --> 00:08:03 heat by infrared radiation. Um that
00:08:03 --> 00:08:06 radiation in the case of a black hole is
00:08:06 --> 00:08:08 is much smaller than the radiation that
00:08:08 --> 00:08:09 it's sucking in which is why it looks
00:08:09 --> 00:08:12 extremely cold. Uh so I'm trying to I'm
00:08:12 --> 00:08:14 trying to make sense of the parallel
00:08:14 --> 00:08:16 that you drew and I think it's I think
00:08:16 --> 00:08:18 it holds water Andrew. I think I think
00:08:18 --> 00:08:19 it's a good good answer.
00:08:19 --> 00:08:20 >> Well, actually the water will probably
00:08:20 --> 00:08:22 evaporate or freeze but anyway um
00:08:22 --> 00:08:24 >> freeze it.
00:08:24 --> 00:08:27 >> Uh I just thought of a question. Um so
00:08:27 --> 00:08:30 if a black hole sort of,
00:08:30 --> 00:08:33 you know, runs out of food, would that
00:08:33 --> 00:08:37 cause an alteration in its temperature?
00:08:38 --> 00:08:39 Um,
00:08:39 --> 00:08:41 I don't think so because I think once
00:08:41 --> 00:08:44 the I I get what you're saying and
00:08:44 --> 00:08:45 certainly in the argument that we've
00:08:45 --> 00:08:48 just been talking about, you'd think
00:08:48 --> 00:08:50 that if it's not sucking in energy
00:08:50 --> 00:08:51 anymore,
00:08:51 --> 00:08:54 >> uh, it it or sucking in matter anymore,
00:08:54 --> 00:08:56 it it would uh it would actually change
00:08:56 --> 00:08:59 its uh change its temperature. Um the
00:08:59 --> 00:09:01 reason why I think that might not happen
00:09:01 --> 00:09:04 is because the only thing that uh the
00:09:04 --> 00:09:06 temperature seems to be related to is
00:09:06 --> 00:09:09 the mass itself. So um there must be a
00:09:09 --> 00:09:11 mechanism and I'm sorry it's eluding me
00:09:12 --> 00:09:14 at the moment. Uh but there must be a
00:09:14 --> 00:09:16 mechanism that sort of locks once you've
00:09:16 --> 00:09:18 once you've got a a a black hole of
00:09:18 --> 00:09:22 sufficient mass um then uh its
00:09:22 --> 00:09:25 temperature is sort of locked in. Uh it
00:09:25 --> 00:09:28 must still be taking in energy in the
00:09:28 --> 00:09:31 form of radiation. So perhaps that's
00:09:31 --> 00:09:32 what's what's happening. you know, light
00:09:32 --> 00:09:34 light certainly gets sucked into a black
00:09:34 --> 00:09:37 hole that even even if it's not got an
00:09:37 --> 00:09:40 accretion disc of stuff to to feed on,
00:09:40 --> 00:09:42 uh the light certainly going in and
00:09:42 --> 00:09:44 perhaps that's enough to keep the
00:09:44 --> 00:09:47 temperature as low as we've described.
00:09:47 --> 00:09:49 Indeed. All right. Uh thanks Casey.
00:09:49 --> 00:09:51 Lovely to hear from you. Hope you're
00:09:51 --> 00:09:54 coping with the uh - 10^ the 15° Kelvin
00:09:54 --> 00:09:58 in Colorado. Uh our next question comes
00:09:58 --> 00:10:01 from Eli. Hello space fairers. I'm
00:10:01 --> 00:10:04 writing from the Coachella Valley desert
00:10:04 --> 00:10:07 here in Southern California. Uh, I've
00:10:07 --> 00:10:09 often thought some of the Google
00:10:09 --> 00:10:11 Earthlike software would be amazing to
00:10:11 --> 00:10:13 take into other galaxies throughout the
00:10:13 --> 00:10:17 universe. Intriguingly, I imagine you
00:10:17 --> 00:10:18 could take them back in time according
00:10:18 --> 00:10:21 to estimates of cosmic inflation, etc.
00:10:21 --> 00:10:24 all the way to the big bang in theory.
00:10:24 --> 00:10:26 um to his question with James Webb and
00:10:26 --> 00:10:29 the Vera Rubin coming online how much of
00:10:29 --> 00:10:32 the visible visible universe have we
00:10:32 --> 00:10:34 basically mapped and how much are we
00:10:34 --> 00:10:38 projected to map in say the next decade
00:10:38 --> 00:10:41 I think we've actually talked about how
00:10:41 --> 00:10:43 much that they're going to look at and
00:10:43 --> 00:10:45 how long it's going to take and I I I
00:10:45 --> 00:10:47 think Eli's going to be quite surprised
00:10:47 --> 00:10:50 by the answer
00:10:50 --> 00:10:53 well yes that's right I mean the the key
00:10:53 --> 00:10:55 words here are the Vera Vera Rubin
00:10:55 --> 00:10:59 Observatory uh because that will map the
00:10:59 --> 00:11:03 entire sky down to quite a significant
00:11:03 --> 00:11:08 depth not as deep as the web will um
00:11:08 --> 00:11:10 although it is an 8 m telescope the web
00:11:10 --> 00:11:12 is only 6 and a half mters so it's
00:11:12 --> 00:11:15 probably not far short of it uh the web
00:11:15 --> 00:11:17 of course looking in infrared and the
00:11:17 --> 00:11:19 Vera Rubin telescope looking in visible
00:11:19 --> 00:11:21 light but it's going to it's going to
00:11:21 --> 00:11:25 photograph the whole sky southern sky uh
00:11:25 --> 00:11:30 in uh every three three nights or so. So
00:11:30 --> 00:11:32 that will build up over the years a map
00:11:32 --> 00:11:34 of the things that don't change. I mean
00:11:34 --> 00:11:35 what it's looking for is things that do
00:11:35 --> 00:11:39 change but um as you integrate for all
00:11:39 --> 00:11:42 that time and by that I mean you you you
00:11:42 --> 00:11:44 know expose the detector to the sky so
00:11:44 --> 00:11:46 that you build up the image uh and you
00:11:46 --> 00:11:48 can add all those images together. We'll
00:11:48 --> 00:11:52 have we'll have a almost a complete map
00:11:52 --> 00:11:54 of the universe in the southern
00:11:54 --> 00:11:57 hemisphere because uh all the visible
00:11:57 --> 00:12:01 galaxies will show up. Uh the they we
00:12:01 --> 00:12:03 won't see the first galaxies. I don't
00:12:03 --> 00:12:05 think it's going to be powerful enough
00:12:05 --> 00:12:09 to see those. But uh and we're not sure
00:12:09 --> 00:12:10 even that the web has seen the first
00:12:10 --> 00:12:13 galaxies. Uh it's certainly seen some
00:12:13 --> 00:12:15 galaxies that we think are very early in
00:12:15 --> 00:12:16 the history of the universe. And I think
00:12:16 --> 00:12:19 the Verus Cy Rubin observatory will do
00:12:19 --> 00:12:22 the same thing. Uh but um you know so
00:12:22 --> 00:12:26 we're not in any sense getting a
00:12:26 --> 00:12:29 complete sense of the consens sorry a
00:12:29 --> 00:12:33 complete census of the universe. Uh but
00:12:33 --> 00:12:35 it's not going to be far off. Uh, and
00:12:35 --> 00:12:38 that's quite astonishing when you think
00:12:38 --> 00:12:40 of where we were, you know, well, just a
00:12:40 --> 00:12:42 few years ago, certainly when I was a a
00:12:42 --> 00:12:45 young working astronomer in the 1970s, I
00:12:45 --> 00:12:47 would have had my somebody It would have
00:12:48 --> 00:12:50 blown my mind to think that we could map
00:12:50 --> 00:12:54 all the galaxies uh in one hemisphere of
00:12:54 --> 00:12:55 the universe.
00:12:55 --> 00:12:57 >> Yeah. Uh, what about the northern
00:12:57 --> 00:13:00 hemisphere? Is there any
00:13:00 --> 00:13:05 >> work equivalent? uh the the there is I
00:13:06 --> 00:13:08 mean the Nancy Roman space telescope
00:13:08 --> 00:13:10 will look it's also a wide angle
00:13:10 --> 00:13:13 telescope like the the Ruben Observatory
00:13:13 --> 00:13:18 instrument is but um it's not as big
00:13:18 --> 00:13:22 it's a um it is a 2.3 meter telescope
00:13:22 --> 00:13:23 basically a Hubble Hubble telescope but
00:13:24 --> 00:13:26 with a wide field of view. Uh so we'll
00:13:26 --> 00:13:29 we'll certainly see uh pretty deep into
00:13:29 --> 00:13:30 the northern hemisphere. Whether it will
00:13:30 --> 00:13:32 go as deep as the Reuben Observatory,
00:13:32 --> 00:13:34 it's a different matter. I don't think
00:13:34 --> 00:13:35 it will because it's a much smaller
00:13:35 --> 00:13:37 telescope, but it is in space and that
00:13:37 --> 00:13:40 gives it excuse me that gives it
00:13:40 --> 00:13:42 advantages. There's no atmosphere to to
00:13:42 --> 00:13:45 get in the way. So that's perhaps the
00:13:45 --> 00:13:51 best bet. Um the excuse me, the other uh
00:13:51 --> 00:13:52 big instruments, I mean, there's a
00:13:52 --> 00:13:56 number of things going on. Um, in terms
00:13:56 --> 00:13:58 of the two kek telescopes which are in
00:13:58 --> 00:14:00 the northern hemisphere in Hawaii,
00:14:00 --> 00:14:02 they're 8 mclass telescopes, but they're
00:14:02 --> 00:14:04 not wide angle. These are telescopes
00:14:04 --> 00:14:07 that are built to home in in detail on
00:14:07 --> 00:14:09 individual objects rather than to do
00:14:10 --> 00:14:12 wide angle surveys. You need a specially
00:14:12 --> 00:14:14 designed telescope for that and the
00:14:14 --> 00:14:17 Reuben is exactly that. Um,
00:14:17 --> 00:14:21 there isn't really an equivalent. Uh
00:14:21 --> 00:14:23 there is a wide-angle telescope in La
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26 Palma which is um the basically the same
00:14:26 --> 00:14:28 as our UK Schmidt telescope here in
00:14:28 --> 00:14:30 Australia. It's called the Ocean Schmidt
00:14:30 --> 00:14:31 telescope. It's much older than our
00:14:32 --> 00:14:33 Schmidt. In fact, our Schmidt was
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35 modeled on it and that's a wide angle
00:14:35 --> 00:14:37 telescope that's surveying the sky, but
00:14:37 --> 00:14:39 that's looking for things like nearear
00:14:39 --> 00:14:40 asteroids and things of that sort rather
00:14:40 --> 00:14:43 than penetrating deep into the universe
00:14:43 --> 00:14:45 because it's only got a 1.2 2 meter
00:14:45 --> 00:14:48 aperture diameter much smaller than the
00:14:48 --> 00:14:50 eight meters that the Rubid telescope
00:14:50 --> 00:14:51 will have.
00:14:51 --> 00:14:53 >> Yeah.
00:14:53 --> 00:14:55 still um what we'll know in 10 years
00:14:55 --> 00:14:59 time will be extraordinary uh through
00:14:59 --> 00:15:01 through these two telescopes alone the
00:15:01 --> 00:15:05 James Webb and Vera Rubin um yeah who
00:15:05 --> 00:15:08 knows what they're going to un unveil uh
00:15:08 --> 00:15:11 and and what what have you know Vera
00:15:11 --> 00:15:12 Rubin's first photograph was a
00:15:12 --> 00:15:17 revelation uh and what James Webb is um
00:15:17 --> 00:15:20 is is shelling out is is extraordinary
00:15:20 --> 00:15:23 it It's It's like um I don't know,
00:15:23 --> 00:15:25 Taylor Swift. It's a hit record every
00:15:25 --> 00:15:27 time that every time they release a
00:15:27 --> 00:15:29 picture.
00:15:29 --> 00:15:31 >> It's uh it's incredible. So, Eli, the
00:15:32 --> 00:15:34 next decade will be extraordinary. Um
00:15:34 --> 00:15:37 so, just, you know, keep an eye on it
00:15:37 --> 00:15:39 would be my advice. And thanks for the
00:15:39 --> 00:15:42 question. This is Space Nuts with Andrew
00:15:42 --> 00:15:45 Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.
00:15:46 --> 00:15:47 Let's take a break from the show to tell
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00:17:25 --> 00:17:30 nordvpn.com/spacenuts.
00:17:30 --> 00:17:33 >> 3 2 1
00:17:33 --> 00:17:34 >> Spacenuts.
00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 I think we have an audio question now.
00:17:37 --> 00:17:39 This one comes from one of our regulars
00:17:39 --> 00:17:40 as well.
00:17:40 --> 00:17:42 >> Hello Fred, Andrew, Jonty, and Heidi.
00:17:42 --> 00:17:45 This is Robert from the Netherlands.
00:17:45 --> 00:17:48 I have a question for you guys about the
00:17:48 --> 00:17:51 emptiness of space.
00:17:51 --> 00:17:54 Now, everybody is always saying that
00:17:54 --> 00:17:56 space is totally empty, right? One
00:17:56 --> 00:17:59 proton per square breeder, something
00:17:59 --> 00:18:03 like that. However, not that long ago,
00:18:03 --> 00:18:06 scientists did discover the Higs Bzon
00:18:06 --> 00:18:10 particle, the God particle, if you will.
00:18:10 --> 00:18:14 So apparently everything is on this grid
00:18:14 --> 00:18:18 of hex boss, but I'm not exactly an
00:18:18 --> 00:18:21 expert here. I'm just curious if you
00:18:21 --> 00:18:22 guys could shed some lights on this
00:18:22 --> 00:18:25 concept for me. So is it just an
00:18:25 --> 00:18:28 enormous field of these very regular
00:18:28 --> 00:18:31 hobbons everywhere in desal spaces or
00:18:31 --> 00:18:34 are they more numerous or less dense in
00:18:34 --> 00:18:37 certain parts? Is the void between
00:18:37 --> 00:18:40 galaxies actually a void? or is it an
00:18:40 --> 00:18:43 empty field of God particles?
00:18:43 --> 00:18:45 I really hope you can shed some lights.
00:18:45 --> 00:18:49 Thank you guys so much for answering.
00:18:49 --> 00:18:51 Thank you, Robert. Good to hear from
00:18:51 --> 00:18:55 you. Uh the emptiness of space. So he
00:18:55 --> 00:18:58 said one proton per square meter. Is
00:18:58 --> 00:19:01 that um a reasonable
00:19:01 --> 00:19:04 >> uh yeah per cubic meter? something
00:19:04 --> 00:19:06 something like that. Um
00:19:06 --> 00:19:09 >> yeah um it's uh it's of that order I
00:19:10 --> 00:19:14 think in in intergalactic space. Um
00:19:14 --> 00:19:18 uh but uh Robert's right in the sense
00:19:18 --> 00:19:24 that the Higs field which is the other
00:19:24 --> 00:19:28 way of looking at the Higs Bzon
00:19:28 --> 00:19:31 permeates basically permeates empty
00:19:31 --> 00:19:36 space. Um so
00:19:36 --> 00:19:39 uh this is all about the duality of
00:19:39 --> 00:19:41 particles
00:19:41 --> 00:19:44 uh with waves and with what we call
00:19:44 --> 00:19:48 fields. Um and we I mean we imagine
00:19:48 --> 00:19:49 fields when we think of gravitation
00:19:50 --> 00:19:52 because we think of a a gravitational
00:19:52 --> 00:19:55 field as a as a as a a
00:19:55 --> 00:19:59 sort of a a well if I can put it that
00:19:59 --> 00:20:01 way in a in a trampoline. Uh the
00:20:01 --> 00:20:03 trampolines, the field, you put
00:20:03 --> 00:20:05 something in it and it it distorts it.
00:20:05 --> 00:20:05 >> Yeah.
00:20:05 --> 00:20:10 >> Uh so with the Higs uh Bzon, the Higs
00:20:10 --> 00:20:14 field uh is this sort of invisible. It's
00:20:14 --> 00:20:16 been described as a something like
00:20:16 --> 00:20:21 molasses or syrup. Uh that what actually
00:20:21 --> 00:20:23 give particles their mass because um
00:20:23 --> 00:20:25 they move slowly through it because they
00:20:25 --> 00:20:28 get sticky. Uh that's one way of looking
00:20:28 --> 00:20:32 at it. Um but uh the Higs Bzon is
00:20:32 --> 00:20:36 essentially a um in in a in a sense uh a
00:20:36 --> 00:20:39 ripple in the Higs field. The Higs field
00:20:39 --> 00:20:43 fills space and the Higs Bzons uh are
00:20:43 --> 00:20:45 ripples in it. That's one way uh to look
00:20:46 --> 00:20:52 at it. Um it's it's uh
00:20:52 --> 00:20:54 the I think what Robert's interested in
00:20:54 --> 00:20:58 is the density of these Bzons.
00:20:58 --> 00:21:02 uh whether they are uniformly
00:21:02 --> 00:21:05 uh distributed through space or whether
00:21:05 --> 00:21:10 we're talking about um you know uh Bzons
00:21:10 --> 00:21:14 uh that are
00:21:14 --> 00:21:16 more dense in some places than than
00:21:16 --> 00:21:21 others. uh and I I guess the the bottom
00:21:21 --> 00:21:22 line is that you would expect there to
00:21:22 --> 00:21:27 be more Bzons where there is more uh
00:21:27 --> 00:21:30 more uh what you might call normal
00:21:30 --> 00:21:32 matter the the quarks and normal
00:21:32 --> 00:21:34 particles but that might not be the
00:21:34 --> 00:21:36 case. Uh I need to look at that a little
00:21:36 --> 00:21:38 bit more carefully Andrew as you can
00:21:38 --> 00:21:41 probably tell uh to to find out what the
00:21:41 --> 00:21:44 distribution of Higs Bzons are. If you
00:21:44 --> 00:21:46 assume the Higs field is uniform
00:21:46 --> 00:21:47 throughout space, which I think it might
00:21:47 --> 00:21:48 be.
00:21:48 --> 00:21:50 >> Yeah, I suppose so. I mean, it's a
00:21:50 --> 00:21:52 complicated area. You're talking about
00:21:52 --> 00:21:54 particle physics, aren't you? Really?
00:21:54 --> 00:21:55 It's um it's not
00:21:55 --> 00:21:57 >> I believe so. Yes.
00:21:57 --> 00:22:00 >> It's not it's not basic maths. So, um
00:22:00 --> 00:22:02 >> yeah, it's particle physics we're
00:22:02 --> 00:22:04 talking about. And um as as I've said
00:22:04 --> 00:22:05 before, the disclaimer is I'm not a
00:22:05 --> 00:22:09 particle physicist. I've been to been to
00:22:09 --> 00:22:12 CERN a few times and had my mind blown
00:22:12 --> 00:22:13 by what they do there at the Large
00:22:13 --> 00:22:15 Hadron Collider. In fact, I've been
00:22:15 --> 00:22:17 underground in the Ladron Collider, but
00:22:17 --> 00:22:19 I'm still not a physicist, a particle
00:22:19 --> 00:22:23 physicist. I uh learn what they they
00:22:23 --> 00:22:25 tell me and kind of hope for the best.
00:22:26 --> 00:22:28 >> Yeah. Aren't they making a larger Hedron
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 collider?
00:22:30 --> 00:22:34 uh they are planning one um something
00:22:34 --> 00:22:36 called
00:22:36 --> 00:22:38 uh
00:22:38 --> 00:22:40 I can't remember it's something like the
00:22:40 --> 00:22:42 large you know the future large collider
00:22:42 --> 00:22:44 I think something like that uh which
00:22:44 --> 00:22:46 whereas the large hydron collider has a
00:22:46 --> 00:22:49 diameter or a circumference of 27
00:22:49 --> 00:22:52 kilometers this is 100 kilometers
00:22:52 --> 00:22:55 um if they ever get the money for it
00:22:55 --> 00:22:57 they are planning an opening ceremony
00:22:57 --> 00:23:00 for it in 2070
00:23:00 --> 00:23:03 It's called the uh future circular
00:23:03 --> 00:23:03 collider.
00:23:03 --> 00:23:05 >> Future circular collider. That's it.
00:23:05 --> 00:23:08 >> Um 91 km ring successor to the large
00:23:08 --> 00:23:11 hedron collider.
00:23:11 --> 00:23:15 >> And they expect it to be approved.
00:23:15 --> 00:23:18 Then the 2728 financial year by the look
00:23:18 --> 00:23:19 of it. Construction starting in the
00:23:19 --> 00:23:22 2030s. So it's a little way off.
00:23:22 --> 00:23:25 >> Completion 2070.
00:23:25 --> 00:23:26 >> 2070.
00:23:26 --> 00:23:27 Lime.
00:23:27 --> 00:23:28 >> Yeah.
00:23:28 --> 00:23:31 That's where the last let's not hold it
00:23:32 --> 00:23:35 is what I saw. Yeah. So I don't think um
00:23:35 --> 00:23:37 I I you know even with the best will in
00:23:37 --> 00:23:40 the world space will probably have
00:23:40 --> 00:23:42 dwindled to an audience measured in
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44 single digits by then. So
00:23:44 --> 00:23:47 >> possibly possibly so yes uh more could
00:23:47 --> 00:23:49 pick up new listeners along the way but
00:23:49 --> 00:23:51 we won't know about it. But um I I
00:23:52 --> 00:23:53 suppose the other side to this question
00:23:53 --> 00:23:56 though is that we do see concentrations
00:23:56 --> 00:23:59 of particles in some parts of the
00:23:59 --> 00:24:02 universe uh like dark matter seems to
00:24:02 --> 00:24:05 concentrate around galaxies
00:24:05 --> 00:24:06 kind of thing. Is that
00:24:06 --> 00:24:07 >> Yeah,
00:24:07 --> 00:24:09 >> that a different kettle of fish.
00:24:09 --> 00:24:11 >> I I think so because we're talking about
00:24:11 --> 00:24:14 something that is um a property of the
00:24:14 --> 00:24:19 universe itself almost. Um,
00:24:19 --> 00:24:24 so that the Higs field is everywhere.
00:24:24 --> 00:24:26 >> Okay. Gotcha. I understand. No, I get
00:24:26 --> 00:24:27 it. I get it. Yeah. All right.
00:24:27 --> 00:24:28 >> Yeah.
00:24:28 --> 00:24:31 >> So, Robert, the answer is um maybe
00:24:31 --> 00:24:33 possibly could be. Uh, we need to do a
00:24:33 --> 00:24:36 bit more homework by the sound of it.
00:24:36 --> 00:24:37 >> We might be able to get back to you on
00:24:37 --> 00:24:39 that.
00:24:39 --> 00:24:41 >> Just Fred's writing a note so he doesn't
00:24:41 --> 00:24:43 forget. Except he'll forget where the
00:24:44 --> 00:24:45 note is. Shh.
00:24:45 --> 00:24:47 >> All right.
00:24:47 --> 00:24:49 It's in this book.
00:24:49 --> 00:24:52 Thanks, Robert.
00:24:52 --> 00:24:55 >> Okay, we checked all four systems and
00:24:55 --> 00:24:57 >> Space Nets.
00:24:57 --> 00:25:00 >> And our final question comes from Renie.
00:25:00 --> 00:25:02 Uh, this is a really interesting
00:25:02 --> 00:25:04 question because he says, I'm going to
00:25:04 --> 00:25:06 play devil's advocate with this
00:25:06 --> 00:25:09 question. How will finding out what dark
00:25:09 --> 00:25:12 matter and dark energy really are help
00:25:12 --> 00:25:16 the earth and all uh of its life now and
00:25:16 --> 00:25:19 in the future? Renie from California.
00:25:19 --> 00:25:21 We've had a few US questions this week.
00:25:21 --> 00:25:24 That's nice. Two from Cali. Uh so yeah,
00:25:24 --> 00:25:26 what difference will it make if we find
00:25:26 --> 00:25:30 this stuff to Earth and life as it is
00:25:30 --> 00:25:33 now and in the future?
00:25:33 --> 00:25:37 Um so um yeah if if we magically did
00:25:37 --> 00:25:40 find the answer to these things and we
00:25:40 --> 00:25:43 will eventually uh over a period of time
00:25:43 --> 00:25:45 I hope it's not till not be I hope it's
00:25:45 --> 00:25:49 before 2070 because I want to know um it
00:25:49 --> 00:25:51 it what it will do will be complete our
00:25:52 --> 00:25:54 understanding of the universe in a way
00:25:54 --> 00:25:58 that it it's not the case at the moment.
00:25:58 --> 00:26:03 So um it it basically refineses our
00:26:03 --> 00:26:04 understanding
00:26:04 --> 00:26:07 uh in a if I can put it this way in a
00:26:07 --> 00:26:11 way that's similar to the way general
00:26:11 --> 00:26:13 relativity
00:26:13 --> 00:26:17 refined it back in 1915.
00:26:17 --> 00:26:21 Um, so the fact that we suddenly
00:26:21 --> 00:26:23 understood gravity, the way gravity
00:26:23 --> 00:26:26 works in a new light, which is what
00:26:26 --> 00:26:32 general relativity did um meant that uh
00:26:32 --> 00:26:35 yes, the physicists could go away happy
00:26:35 --> 00:26:38 because they solved a problem. There
00:26:38 --> 00:26:41 were a number of problems that Newtonian
00:26:41 --> 00:26:43 gravity couldn't couldn't help with
00:26:43 --> 00:26:46 which were solved by Einsteinian
00:26:46 --> 00:26:47 gravity.
00:26:47 --> 00:26:51 So um but that didn't seem to offer any
00:26:51 --> 00:26:55 future benefits for humankind. But here
00:26:55 --> 00:26:57 we are rather more than 100 years later,
00:26:57 --> 00:27:03 110 years later and we have um tools
00:27:03 --> 00:27:06 which rely absolutely on general
00:27:06 --> 00:27:08 relativity. And the one I'm thinking of
00:27:08 --> 00:27:12 most commonly is uh GPS
00:27:12 --> 00:27:15 uh because our position finding um
00:27:15 --> 00:27:18 software simply would not work without
00:27:18 --> 00:27:20 general relativity. you'd have errors in
00:27:20 --> 00:27:23 the region of 10 kilometers which is not
00:27:23 --> 00:27:26 kind of what you want with GPS but that
00:27:26 --> 00:27:31 took a 100 years and so Renie that's the
00:27:31 --> 00:27:33 sort of time scale I think on which you
00:27:33 --> 00:27:34 have to be optimistic about the way it
00:27:34 --> 00:27:37 might help humankind or life on earth
00:27:37 --> 00:27:40 generally because if we become
00:27:40 --> 00:27:43 responsible um a responsible species on
00:27:43 --> 00:27:44 our planet we're going to help the whole
00:27:44 --> 00:27:48 planet if we if we live sustainably and
00:27:48 --> 00:27:50 um live alongside inside uh all our
00:27:50 --> 00:27:54 companion organisms on on this planet.
00:27:54 --> 00:27:56 So uh yeah, so I I think um what you
00:27:56 --> 00:27:59 can't say is that it won't help them.
00:27:59 --> 00:28:01 That's the thing. You can't say that it
00:28:01 --> 00:28:04 will either. Uh but there's a good
00:28:04 --> 00:28:07 chance that in the same way that um
00:28:07 --> 00:28:09 something as obstruuse as general
00:28:09 --> 00:28:11 relativity actually comes into
00:28:11 --> 00:28:14 everybody's everyday lifeund odd years
00:28:14 --> 00:28:17 later. I think that's the the model and
00:28:17 --> 00:28:21 it's one reason why why deep research
00:28:21 --> 00:28:22 like this is funded. It's why
00:28:22 --> 00:28:24 fundamental research that is just
00:28:24 --> 00:28:27 knowledge for its own sake at the moment
00:28:27 --> 00:28:28 why it's funded because you never know
00:28:28 --> 00:28:30 what the spin-offs might be.
00:28:30 --> 00:28:33 >> Absolutely. Uh and you can look back in
00:28:33 --> 00:28:34 history at some of the great discoveries
00:28:34 --> 00:28:37 and how they've they've changed things
00:28:37 --> 00:28:42 on Earth and have changed human life. Um
00:28:42 --> 00:28:44 >> I'm just trying to think of one. Well,
00:28:44 --> 00:28:45 electricity for a start.
00:28:45 --> 00:28:48 >> Yeah. Well, they, you know, it was just
00:28:48 --> 00:28:50 physicists playing around in the early
00:28:50 --> 00:28:52 19th century. Oh, this is really
00:28:52 --> 00:28:53 interesting.
00:28:53 --> 00:28:55 >> Um, nobody ever thought we'd use it like
00:28:55 --> 00:28:57 we do today.
00:28:57 --> 00:28:59 >> And I suppose one of the this is
00:28:59 --> 00:29:03 probably a a fundamental example. Uh, as
00:29:03 --> 00:29:07 we learn things, we learn things. So it
00:29:07 --> 00:29:09 expands our minds. It expands our
00:29:09 --> 00:29:11 inquisitiveness. It expands our
00:29:11 --> 00:29:13 intelligence. It it it it enables
00:29:13 --> 00:29:17 humanity to understand more about itself
00:29:17 --> 00:29:19 and its place in the universe. You know,
00:29:19 --> 00:29:22 you go back to 1543
00:29:22 --> 00:29:23 when Capernicus
00:29:24 --> 00:29:26 >> found that the earth was not the center
00:29:26 --> 00:29:29 of the universe. I think he got shouted
00:29:29 --> 00:29:31 down pretty heavily for that. But that's
00:29:31 --> 00:29:33 the truth. We know that now. Uh there
00:29:33 --> 00:29:36 was I can't remember who it was but um
00:29:36 --> 00:29:38 another thing that goes back quite a way
00:29:38 --> 00:29:41 when the discovery was made that our son
00:29:41 --> 00:29:43 is actually a star. I mean for a long
00:29:43 --> 00:29:46 time we didn't know that.
00:29:46 --> 00:29:48 >> You know it's it's about knowledge as
00:29:48 --> 00:29:50 much as anything. I think
00:29:50 --> 00:29:51 >> Yeah. Yep.
00:29:51 --> 00:29:52 >> I love that one though.
00:29:52 --> 00:29:54 >> That's right. Yeah.
00:29:54 --> 00:29:54 >> The sun.
00:29:54 --> 00:29:55 >> It's great.
00:29:55 --> 00:29:56 >> Yeah.
00:29:56 --> 00:29:56 >> I think
00:29:56 --> 00:29:57 >> you can look it up. It's online
00:29:57 --> 00:29:59 somewhere. I did it as a quiz question
00:29:59 --> 00:30:01 once on the radio and um got a great
00:30:02 --> 00:30:04 response to that cuz people just in the
00:30:04 --> 00:30:06 modern era never thought that there
00:30:06 --> 00:30:08 would have been a time where people look
00:30:08 --> 00:30:12 at this this hot ball in the sky and go
00:30:12 --> 00:30:15 what is that? Um and you know looking at
00:30:15 --> 00:30:16 all the other stars not making the
00:30:16 --> 00:30:19 correlation they just didn't know. It's
00:30:19 --> 00:30:22 um it was incredible. So I suppose Renie
00:30:22 --> 00:30:24 it's it's it's about knowledge. It's
00:30:24 --> 00:30:26 about expanding our understanding of
00:30:26 --> 00:30:28 life, the universe, and everything and
00:30:28 --> 00:30:31 not stopping at 42.
00:30:31 --> 00:30:34 Um, that's the way I look at it.
00:30:34 --> 00:30:36 I think you're and I think you're
00:30:36 --> 00:30:38 absolutely right. I think um, you know,
00:30:38 --> 00:30:40 both that's two sides of the same thing.
00:30:40 --> 00:30:43 We're we're we but it's why we why we do
00:30:43 --> 00:30:45 this sort of thing. It's why it's we're
00:30:45 --> 00:30:46 a curious species and
00:30:46 --> 00:30:47 >> absolutely
00:30:47 --> 00:30:48 >> knowledge is power. Yeah.
00:30:48 --> 00:30:50 >> Yeah. Yeah. That's another thing. Yeah.
00:30:50 --> 00:30:53 Absolutely true, Renie. Great question.
00:30:53 --> 00:30:55 good one for discussion and debate and
00:30:55 --> 00:30:57 keep them coming. If you'd like to send
00:30:57 --> 00:30:59 questions into us, um you can do so
00:31:00 --> 00:31:01 through our website,
00:31:01 --> 00:31:03 spacenutspodcast.com,
00:31:03 --> 00:31:06 spacenuts.io, they're the two URLs. And
00:31:06 --> 00:31:08 while you're there, have a look around.
00:31:08 --> 00:31:10 The AMA button at the top, ask me
00:31:10 --> 00:31:12 anything is where you send your
00:31:12 --> 00:31:15 questions. Ask me anything. Uh text or
00:31:15 --> 00:31:16 audio, don't forget to tell us who you
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00:31:19 --> 00:31:21 might want to click on the support our
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00:31:29 --> 00:31:32 advantages to becoming a a a supporter
00:31:32 --> 00:31:34 of uh of the podcast. So um check that
00:31:34 --> 00:31:36 out as well and visit the shop while
00:31:36 --> 00:31:39 you're there. That also helps us. Buy a
00:31:39 --> 00:31:42 sticker, buy a cap, buy a shirt, buy
00:31:42 --> 00:31:44 whatever. We should have space nut
00:31:44 --> 00:31:46 sunscreen, you know. It would make
00:31:46 --> 00:31:49 sense. Anyway, uh you can do it all on
00:31:49 --> 00:31:51 our website. Fred, thank you so much.
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53 Always a pleasure.
00:31:53 --> 00:31:55 >> Good to talk, Andrew. And um I'm sure
00:31:55 --> 00:31:57 we'll do it again soon.
00:31:57 --> 00:31:59 >> Yes, I'm sure we will. Uh could be a few
00:31:59 --> 00:32:01 minutes, could be a week, who knows. Uh
00:32:01 --> 00:32:03 and Hugh in the studio, thanks to him
00:32:03 --> 00:32:05 for doing everything he does. We don't
00:32:05 --> 00:32:07 know what that is, but we appreciate it.
00:32:07 --> 00:32:09 And from me, Andrew Dunley, thanks for
00:32:09 --> 00:32:10 your company. See you on the next
00:32:10 --> 00:32:13 episode of Space Nuts. Bye-bye.
00:32:13 --> 00:32:15 >> Space Nuts. You'll be listening to the
00:32:15 --> 00:32:18 Space Nuts podcast
00:32:18 --> 00:32:21 >> available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
00:32:21 --> 00:32:24 iHeart Radio, or your favorite podcast
00:32:24 --> 00:32:26 player. You can also stream on demand at
00:32:26 --> 00:32:29 byes.com. This has been another quality
00:32:29 --> 00:32:33 podcast production from byes.com.