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(00:00) Welcome to Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley and Fred Watson Watson
(01:20) Discussion on black holes and the nature of time
(15:00) Exploring the potential for life on Mars and Milankovitch cycles
(25:30) Listener Ash ideas and cosmic creativity
For commercial-free versions of Space Nuts, join us on Patreon, Supercast, Apple Podcasts, or become a supporter here: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support (https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss) .
Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/27438903?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Hi there, Andrew Dunley here and this is
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 Space Nuts, a Q&A edition. Thanks for
00:00:05 --> 00:00:08 joining us. Coming up, we're going to oh
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 gosh, talk about something uh never
00:00:10 --> 00:00:13 before spoken of on Space Nuts, a black
00:00:13 --> 00:00:15 hole. A little bit of a different twist
00:00:15 --> 00:00:17 on this one, though. We're also going to
00:00:17 --> 00:00:19 look at the dimension of time, our
00:00:19 --> 00:00:23 obsession with life, uh the Melanchov
00:00:23 --> 00:00:26 cycles of Mars, and Patty's got an idea
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28 for me to write a book. That's all
00:00:28 --> 00:00:31 coming up on this edition of Space Nuts.
00:00:31 --> 00:00:36 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9
00:00:36 --> 00:00:40 Ignition sequence start. Space Nuts. 5 4
00:00:40 --> 00:00:44 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1 Space Nuts.
00:00:44 --> 00:00:47 Astronauts report. It feels good. And
00:00:47 --> 00:00:50 with all the answers is Professor Fred
00:00:50 --> 00:00:52 Watson, astronomer at large. Hello,
00:00:52 --> 00:00:55 Fred. Uh, hello Andrew. It's um not all
00:00:55 --> 00:00:58 the answers, but well, two or three of
00:00:58 --> 00:01:02 them. That's all we need. Um I thought
00:01:02 --> 00:01:04 I'd show you my background today. Yes, I
00:01:04 --> 00:01:05 was going to ask you about that. All
00:01:05 --> 00:01:07 these rockets launching into space.
00:01:07 --> 00:01:11 That's from the sphere in Las Vegas. I
00:01:11 --> 00:01:12 took that photo when we went to a show
00:01:12 --> 00:01:15 there called Postcard from Earth. And
00:01:15 --> 00:01:19 the the basis of the the story is uh
00:01:19 --> 00:01:21 that Earth's become uninhabitable due to
00:01:21 --> 00:01:24 global warming. So everyone basically
00:01:24 --> 00:01:26 went let's get out of dodge. And that's
00:01:26 --> 00:01:28 the scene of all the rockets taking off
00:01:28 --> 00:01:31 as humanity leaves the planet. And the
00:01:31 --> 00:01:34 whole story line basically is about
00:01:34 --> 00:01:35 people coming back to visit. But we
00:01:36 --> 00:01:37 can't live here anymore because we
00:01:37 --> 00:01:40 messed it up so bad. And um that yeah,
00:01:40 --> 00:01:42 so that's the launch sequence from all
00:01:42 --> 00:01:44 the humans leaving the planet after we
00:01:44 --> 00:01:46 decimated it with global warming and
00:01:46 --> 00:01:50 climate change. Um, and and it's a it's
00:01:50 --> 00:01:53 a a 360 degree sphere in Las Vegas, uh,
00:01:54 --> 00:01:57 which you can walk around and it has
00:01:57 --> 00:01:58 pictures on the outside, but on the
00:01:58 --> 00:02:01 inside it's a visual screen that goes
00:02:01 --> 00:02:04 all around you. Uh, not only is it um,
00:02:04 --> 00:02:06 showing you pictures, but you can also
00:02:06 --> 00:02:09 experience weather uh, while you're
00:02:09 --> 00:02:11 there. So, you fly over snow fields and
00:02:11 --> 00:02:13 you can feel the cold and the wind. Uh
00:02:13 --> 00:02:16 you fly over an orchard in California
00:02:16 --> 00:02:18 and you can smell the citrus. Uh it's
00:02:18 --> 00:02:21 really brilliant. Really an amazing um
00:02:21 --> 00:02:23 facility that they've they've built
00:02:23 --> 00:02:25 there and all centered around science.
00:02:25 --> 00:02:27 So um yeah, loved it. Absolutely loved
00:02:27 --> 00:02:29 it. Notwithstanding the fact the Eagles
00:02:30 --> 00:02:31 are performing there pretty much as I
00:02:31 --> 00:02:34 speak. So they do kind of thing as well.
00:02:34 --> 00:02:36 Yeah. But yeah, I like that. I like that
00:02:36 --> 00:02:38 as a backdrop. Sort of fits in with what
00:02:38 --> 00:02:41 we do. Space nuts, launching rockets,
00:02:41 --> 00:02:44 that kind of thing. The people So the
00:02:44 --> 00:02:46 reason why Earth is uninhabitable is
00:02:46 --> 00:02:48 because of all these rockets leaving
00:02:48 --> 00:02:49 behind their
00:02:49 --> 00:02:54 trailer. What nasty stuff they dleshere.
00:02:54 --> 00:02:56 Yeah, it probably didn't help that many
00:02:56 --> 00:02:58 take. Well, I don't think it would. No,
00:02:58 --> 00:03:01 let's get down to some questions. And
00:03:01 --> 00:03:03 our first one comes from Mark Painter.
00:03:03 --> 00:03:05 Uh, this one came via Facebook. Dear
00:03:05 --> 00:03:07 Andrew and Professor Fred, I have a few
00:03:07 --> 00:03:09 questions that puzzle me today. I'll
00:03:09 --> 00:03:12 start with, of course, black holes. In
00:03:12 --> 00:03:14 the movie Interstellar, as they get
00:03:14 --> 00:03:16 closer to the black hole, time slows
00:03:16 --> 00:03:19 down relative to the outside observer.
00:03:19 --> 00:03:21 By extension, as we get close to the
00:03:21 --> 00:03:23 event horizon, time would stretch more
00:03:23 --> 00:03:26 and more, and I assume follows an
00:03:26 --> 00:03:28 exponential curve to the point where
00:03:28 --> 00:03:31 time effectively stops. So then, to
00:03:31 --> 00:03:33 enter the black hole, wouldn't time have
00:03:33 --> 00:03:36 to go in reverse? Could it be that all
00:03:36 --> 00:03:39 black holes are actually chunks that
00:03:39 --> 00:03:43 come from the big bang that did not um
00:03:43 --> 00:03:46 form uh that did not form normal matter?
00:03:46 --> 00:03:49 Thanks in advance. We kind of talked
00:03:49 --> 00:03:51 about that in our last episode, the
00:03:51 --> 00:03:55 primordial black holes and um and
00:03:55 --> 00:03:58 they're maybe being responsible for dark
00:03:58 --> 00:04:02 matter um which Fred debunked pretty
00:04:02 --> 00:04:05 heavily. Yeah, like there's a big up
00:04:05 --> 00:04:08 really. No, but um so he's asking about
00:04:08 --> 00:04:10 time being reversed if you entered a
00:04:10 --> 00:04:13 black hole. Uh I know something that
00:04:13 --> 00:04:15 would be reversed your life, but that's
00:04:15 --> 00:04:20 besides the point. Yeah, just just to um
00:04:20 --> 00:04:22 elaborate on what you were just saying
00:04:22 --> 00:04:25 though, Andrew. Um I primordial black
00:04:25 --> 00:04:27 holes may exist. We we just don't know.
00:04:27 --> 00:04:29 Um, and my comment was that I didn't
00:04:29 --> 00:04:32 think they would amount to forming the
00:04:32 --> 00:04:36 the dark matter that still looking for.
00:04:36 --> 00:04:38 But we do we do know that uh some black
00:04:38 --> 00:04:42 holes are actually formed from supernova
00:04:42 --> 00:04:45 explosions, the debris left over by the
00:04:45 --> 00:04:47 supernova, the collapse of the core of a
00:04:47 --> 00:04:50 star that has sufficient mass uh up to
00:04:50 --> 00:04:55 22 something like 22 solar masses. So um
00:04:55 --> 00:04:57 uh the answer to the the last bit of
00:04:57 --> 00:04:59 Mark's question there could it be that
00:04:59 --> 00:05:00 all the black holes are actually chunks
00:05:00 --> 00:05:02 that came from the big bang that did not
00:05:02 --> 00:05:06 form normal matter and um some of them
00:05:06 --> 00:05:09 probably did the primordial ones but
00:05:09 --> 00:05:11 some also didn't. We know that um that
00:05:11 --> 00:05:13 black holes are formed by stars getting
00:05:13 --> 00:05:15 to the ends of their lives. And
00:05:15 --> 00:05:19 regarding time reversal, um Mark is
00:05:19 --> 00:05:22 absolutely right that as you uh to an
00:05:22 --> 00:05:24 outside observer, the closer you get to
00:05:24 --> 00:05:28 the event horizon, um the u
00:05:29 --> 00:05:32 more your time to the outside observer
00:05:32 --> 00:05:34 slows down, if I can put it that way.
00:05:34 --> 00:05:35 And when you cross the event horizon,
00:05:36 --> 00:05:38 basically time stops. So your person
00:05:38 --> 00:05:41 would be frozen uh on the event horizon,
00:05:41 --> 00:05:42 although they've actually fallen into
00:05:42 --> 00:05:45 it. um they don't see the event horizon
00:05:45 --> 00:05:47 because that's a basically a an optical
00:05:47 --> 00:05:49 illusion. It's the point at which uh
00:05:49 --> 00:05:53 light cannot escape. We talked at this
00:05:53 --> 00:05:56 um some episodes back about how if you
00:05:56 --> 00:05:58 were to cross the threshold like oh
00:05:58 --> 00:06:01 space and time would flip. Yes, that's
00:06:01 --> 00:06:04 right. They do. Um that's as you get
00:06:04 --> 00:06:07 close to it the it's exactly right. the
00:06:07 --> 00:06:10 dimensions flip and we had quite a nice
00:06:10 --> 00:06:12 explanation as to why that would be
00:06:12 --> 00:06:14 which great YouTube video on it I think
00:06:14 --> 00:06:16 yes that was it there was a YouTube
00:06:16 --> 00:06:19 video very nicely put uh the very nicely
00:06:19 --> 00:06:23 put why the effectively space and time
00:06:23 --> 00:06:27 flip um and that in a way sort of
00:06:27 --> 00:06:31 illuminates Mark's question as well uh
00:06:31 --> 00:06:34 the the time doesn't reverse for you um
00:06:34 --> 00:06:37 time basically disappears
00:06:37 --> 00:06:39 along with you when you get swallowed
00:06:39 --> 00:06:42 into the into the black hole from your
00:06:42 --> 00:06:45 perspective. And you know, it's no good
00:06:45 --> 00:06:46 thinking about whether to an outside
00:06:46 --> 00:06:50 observer time might reverse. Um because
00:06:50 --> 00:06:51 the outside observer can't see you
00:06:51 --> 00:06:54 because you're by that time you're
00:06:54 --> 00:06:55 inside the event horizon. So nobody's
00:06:56 --> 00:06:58 going to see you. Nobody will feel your
00:06:58 --> 00:07:01 pain. No. No. But you'll be covered in
00:07:01 --> 00:07:02 spaghetti sauce. Spaghetti. Yes, that's
00:07:02 --> 00:07:04 right. In the movie Interstellar, of
00:07:04 --> 00:07:07 course, he's referring to a a situation
00:07:07 --> 00:07:10 where an astronaut did cross the plane
00:07:10 --> 00:07:14 into a black hole to help solve um a a a
00:07:14 --> 00:07:17 puzzle that they could only solve if
00:07:17 --> 00:07:19 they could get inside a black hole.
00:07:19 --> 00:07:22 Yeah, that's right. Yep. I I did see the
00:07:22 --> 00:07:23 movie, but I don't remember the exact
00:07:24 --> 00:07:26 plot. I just remember thinking, "No,
00:07:26 --> 00:07:28 that couldn't possibly happen. Oh, what
00:07:28 --> 00:07:30 are they talking about? solve a a
00:07:30 --> 00:07:33 gravity problem and they couldn't do it
00:07:33 --> 00:07:35 a black hole. So that's they had to go
00:07:35 --> 00:07:38 in um but brilliant film but that was
00:07:38 --> 00:07:40 probably where it jumped the shark so to
00:07:40 --> 00:07:44 speak uh in terms of reality but uh who
00:07:44 --> 00:07:46 cares? It's science fiction. I loved it.
00:07:46 --> 00:07:48 Absolutely loved it. Thank you Mark.
00:07:48 --> 00:07:51 Great to hear from you and thanks for
00:07:51 --> 00:07:53 reaching out on Facebook. Our next
00:07:53 --> 00:07:56 question comes from Craig. Hi
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58 professors. It's Craig calling from
00:07:58 --> 00:08:01 sunny Morula in New South Wales. I have
00:08:01 --> 00:08:04 a question about
00:08:04 --> 00:08:08 dimensions. One dimension, two,
00:08:08 --> 00:08:11 three. They all need time. And we
00:08:11 --> 00:08:15 describe time as a dimension, but is it
00:08:15 --> 00:08:18 really? It's kind of like half a
00:08:18 --> 00:08:21 dimension. We can move in one vector,
00:08:21 --> 00:08:24 but not in the other unless you can move
00:08:24 --> 00:08:26 faster than the speed of light. and I
00:08:26 --> 00:08:30 don't think we can. So, it's not really
00:08:30 --> 00:08:33 a full dimension. It's, as I said, more
00:08:33 --> 00:08:35 like a half a dimension. What are your
00:08:35 --> 00:08:37 thoughts?
00:08:37 --> 00:08:40 Okay, Craig, thank you. Um, yes. How
00:08:40 --> 00:08:42 Yeah, half a dimension. We do describe
00:08:42 --> 00:08:45 time as a dimension. And while you're
00:08:45 --> 00:08:47 talking, I'm going to do some research
00:08:47 --> 00:08:49 because I remember us talking not so
00:08:49 --> 00:08:52 long ago about a paper that was released
00:08:52 --> 00:08:55 suggesting time travels in two
00:08:55 --> 00:08:58 directions at once.
00:08:58 --> 00:09:03 Was that right? Yeah. That's um that was
00:09:03 --> 00:09:07 for that it's it's the way some quantum
00:09:07 --> 00:09:09 processes experience it. I think that
00:09:09 --> 00:09:12 was what it was about. Yeah. Um so time
00:09:12 --> 00:09:17 is a dimension. Um this emerged from uh
00:09:17 --> 00:09:19 sort of mathematical studies in the wake
00:09:19 --> 00:09:22 of Einstein special theory of
00:09:23 --> 00:09:25 relativity. Um and
00:09:25 --> 00:09:30 so you can write down an equation if I
00:09:30 --> 00:09:32 remember it
00:09:32 --> 00:09:35 rightly. So you excuse me imagine
00:09:36 --> 00:09:38 yourself moving
00:09:38 --> 00:09:42 uh uh in three dimensions
00:09:42 --> 00:09:45 um a distance which we'll call s. You've
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 got three coordinates and actually in
00:09:48 --> 00:09:50 three dimensions you can write down an
00:09:50 --> 00:09:52 equation which we call a metric and this
00:09:52 --> 00:09:54 is for normal non-relativistic space
00:09:54 --> 00:09:58 which would be the s^2 = x^2 + y^2 +
00:09:58 --> 00:10:01 z^2. That would be a formal equation of
00:10:02 --> 00:10:03 how you would move in a
00:10:03 --> 00:10:06 three-dimensional coordinate system. Um
00:10:06 --> 00:10:07 we
00:10:07 --> 00:10:10 um you know we express these things
00:10:10 --> 00:10:12 mathematically. It's called a metric.
00:10:12 --> 00:10:16 That is the uh the the the bottom line
00:10:16 --> 00:10:19 of this. Um but with relativity coming
00:10:19 --> 00:10:22 along people realize that yes time
00:10:22 --> 00:10:25 behaves just like a dimension. Uh and it
00:10:25 --> 00:10:28 is variable. It's it can be squashed and
00:10:28 --> 00:10:29 it can be extended just as we've been
00:10:30 --> 00:10:32 talking about time dilation. Uh your
00:10:32 --> 00:10:34 time can be look can look differently
00:10:34 --> 00:10:37 from the time of somebody else uh who's
00:10:37 --> 00:10:39 in a different frame of reference from
00:10:39 --> 00:10:40 you whether gravitationally or or
00:10:40 --> 00:10:45 moving. Um so time is bendy. Uh it's but
00:10:45 --> 00:10:48 um you you find that when you excuse me
00:10:48 --> 00:10:50 when you move to that relativistic
00:10:50 --> 00:10:52 situation you can write the equation
00:10:52 --> 00:10:55 down where you've got four dimensions um
00:10:55 --> 00:10:56 and one of them is time and if I
00:10:56 --> 00:10:59 remember rightly it's s^2 = x^2 + y^2 +
00:10:59 --> 00:11:04 z^2 minus c ^ 2 t ^2 where t is time so
00:11:04 --> 00:11:06 it behaves just like a
00:11:06 --> 00:11:10 dimension and um that um is why we call
00:11:10 --> 00:11:13 it a dimension because it is uh But it
00:11:13 --> 00:11:16 is clearly different in some ways from
00:11:16 --> 00:11:18 the three dimensions of space because
00:11:19 --> 00:11:21 exactly as Craig says, we can move
00:11:21 --> 00:11:23 willy-nilly about the three dimensions
00:11:23 --> 00:11:25 of space within reason of course, but we
00:11:25 --> 00:11:28 can move around them, but we can't move
00:11:28 --> 00:11:30 willy-nilly around the dimension of time
00:11:30 --> 00:11:32 except under certain circumstances where
00:11:32 --> 00:11:34 you're traveling at very high velocities
00:11:34 --> 00:11:36 and things of that sort. So it is it is
00:11:36 --> 00:11:40 a very unusual it's an unusual dimension
00:11:40 --> 00:11:43 but it is a dimension. I quite like the
00:11:43 --> 00:11:46 idea of it being half a dimension. Um
00:11:46 --> 00:11:48 but I think my mathematical friends
00:11:48 --> 00:11:51 would would say no it's definitely not
00:11:51 --> 00:11:53 half a dimension. Yes. Uh I I found
00:11:54 --> 00:11:56 several articles on what we' spoken
00:11:56 --> 00:11:59 about which was u a paper published late
00:11:59 --> 00:12:01 February early March. Uh, in the quantum
00:12:01 --> 00:12:04 realm, time arrow might fly in two
00:12:05 --> 00:12:07 directions. And Mark might might want to
00:12:07 --> 00:12:10 um Greg, I mean, might want to look uh
00:12:10 --> 00:12:13 that up um and and read a bit more about
00:12:13 --> 00:12:15 it. But um yeah, it's it's a special
00:12:15 --> 00:12:18 circumstance, I suppose, would be the
00:12:18 --> 00:12:22 best way to describe it. Um but yeah,
00:12:22 --> 00:12:25 it's it's yeah, it's an interesting
00:12:25 --> 00:12:27 article. It's an interesting question
00:12:27 --> 00:12:29 from Craig, too. Yes, very interesting.
00:12:29 --> 00:12:31 Thank you. Great to hear from you. Uh,
00:12:31 --> 00:12:33 this is Space Nuts. Andrew Dunley here
00:12:33 --> 00:12:36 with Professor Fred
00:12:36 --> 00:12:38 Watson. Let's take a break from the show
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00:14:21 --> 00:14:23 nordvpn.com/spacenuts. Now, back to the
00:14:23 --> 00:14:27 show. Roger. You're sac nuts. Okay,
00:14:27 --> 00:14:29 Fred. Uh, we've got another audio
00:14:29 --> 00:14:32 question from a regular Cinderinra.
00:14:32 --> 00:14:34 Here's Mikey. Hey, Fred and Andrew. It
00:14:34 --> 00:14:37 is Mikey from Illinois once again.
00:14:37 --> 00:14:39 I'm sitting here at 5:30 in the morning
00:14:39 --> 00:14:41 as one does pondering about life in the
00:14:41 --> 00:14:43 universe and I was just wondering why
00:14:43 --> 00:14:47 we're so fixated on life had already
00:14:47 --> 00:14:51 happening on other planets. Um we look
00:14:51 --> 00:14:53 for signs of life from the past on Mars,
00:14:53 --> 00:14:56 you know, eventually on Venus and all
00:14:56 --> 00:14:57 these places that we go. But what are
00:14:57 --> 00:15:01 the odds that these places, say Venus
00:15:01 --> 00:15:02 for
00:15:02 --> 00:15:05 example, are on their infancy stage of
00:15:05 --> 00:15:09 life and Venus will eventually cool down
00:15:09 --> 00:15:13 one day and when the Earth is long gone
00:15:13 --> 00:15:15 possibly because we've self annihilated
00:15:15 --> 00:15:18 ourselves. Um maybe one day, millions of
00:15:18 --> 00:15:20 years in the future, Venus will be an
00:15:20 --> 00:15:23 oasis. Um, I'm just curious on your
00:15:23 --> 00:15:25 guys' thoughts of this and I mean, what
00:15:25 --> 00:15:28 are what are the chances that maybe some
00:15:28 --> 00:15:30 planet or somebody in our solar system
00:15:30 --> 00:15:32 as of right now may not be able to
00:15:32 --> 00:15:34 harbor life, but someday in the future
00:15:34 --> 00:15:38 will be. Thanks, guys. Thank you, Mikey.
00:15:38 --> 00:15:39 Uh, that's a really interesting
00:15:39 --> 00:15:42 question. Uh in in terms of the Venus
00:15:42 --> 00:15:44 theory,
00:15:44 --> 00:15:46 um you might argue that Venus has
00:15:46 --> 00:15:49 already been there because I remember a
00:15:49 --> 00:15:51 story way back when when we uh talked
00:15:51 --> 00:15:54 about um the potential for three planets
00:15:54 --> 00:15:57 in our own solar system that all could
00:15:57 --> 00:15:59 have potentially harbored life. We know
00:15:59 --> 00:16:02 of one. We live on it. But Mars and
00:16:02 --> 00:16:04 Venus were also cited as planets that at
00:16:04 --> 00:16:05 some
00:16:05 --> 00:16:10 stage had what would have been a um a
00:16:10 --> 00:16:13 chemistry a an environment that could
00:16:14 --> 00:16:17 have harbored life and um you know Mars
00:16:17 --> 00:16:19 lost its atmosphere which sort of put
00:16:19 --> 00:16:22 them to bed. Venus went, you know,
00:16:22 --> 00:16:25 rogue, you know, greenhouse effect and
00:16:25 --> 00:16:27 um that that put their potential for
00:16:27 --> 00:16:30 life to bed, but doesn't write off the
00:16:30 --> 00:16:32 possibility that they might have had it.
00:16:32 --> 00:16:34 That's true. Uh and I think that's
00:16:34 --> 00:16:36 absolutely right. Both those planets
00:16:36 --> 00:16:40 might have had it. Um as you say, M
00:16:40 --> 00:16:42 Venus became, you know, it had the
00:16:42 --> 00:16:44 runaway greenhouse effect which put its
00:16:44 --> 00:16:47 surface temperature up to what is it 450
00:16:47 --> 00:16:50 or what else? That's Yeah. Celsius. Um,
00:16:50 --> 00:16:52 so I think with Venus,
00:16:52 --> 00:16:57 um, it's done its dash because as time
00:16:57 --> 00:17:00 goes on, the likelihood is that Venus
00:17:00 --> 00:17:03 will get even more inhospitable to life.
00:17:03 --> 00:17:07 Uh, as the sun basically swells towards
00:17:08 --> 00:17:10 the end of its lifetime, and I'm talking
00:17:10 --> 00:17:12 now about three billion years or so in
00:17:12 --> 00:17:15 the future, it'll start swelling. Um,
00:17:15 --> 00:17:17 Venus will get even hotter than it is
00:17:17 --> 00:17:20 now. Uh, Earth might very well become
00:17:20 --> 00:17:23 uninhabitable by then. Mars, however,
00:17:23 --> 00:17:27 might turn into a warm world. Um, it's
00:17:27 --> 00:17:29 doubtful it would regain its atmosphere.
00:17:30 --> 00:17:31 Um, it might
00:17:31 --> 00:17:35 regain a lot of water, which um probably
00:17:35 --> 00:17:36 would evaporate into space without
00:17:36 --> 00:17:38 pressure of an atmosphere. But yeah,
00:17:38 --> 00:17:41 it's impossible future habitable world
00:17:41 --> 00:17:43 even if it's not now. We don't know
00:17:43 --> 00:17:46 whether any microbes on Mars. Um but
00:17:46 --> 00:17:48 that's why we're being so careful to
00:17:48 --> 00:17:50 avoid contaminating them if there are.
00:17:50 --> 00:17:52 Um more perhaps an even more interesting
00:17:52 --> 00:17:56 world is Titan as the as the you know as
00:17:56 --> 00:17:58 the Goldilock zone creeps outwards as
00:17:58 --> 00:18:02 the sun expands in its later years.
00:18:02 --> 00:18:04 Titan is going to become a much more
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07 desirable place uh in terms of
00:18:07 --> 00:18:09 habitability. It's the only place in the
00:18:09 --> 00:18:11 world, sorry, the only place in the
00:18:11 --> 00:18:14 universe that we know of where there are
00:18:14 --> 00:18:17 um lakes and rivers in equilibrium with
00:18:17 --> 00:18:19 its atmosphere. They are liquid natural
00:18:19 --> 00:18:22 gas rather than water. But I think it's
00:18:22 --> 00:18:23 a you know, it's a big planet. It's
00:18:23 --> 00:18:25 bigger than the planet Mercury. Sorry,
00:18:25 --> 00:18:26 it's a big satellite. It's bigger than
00:18:26 --> 00:18:30 the planet Mercury. Um maybe that's a
00:18:30 --> 00:18:32 place where we could find living
00:18:32 --> 00:18:34 organisms somewhere down the track in
00:18:34 --> 00:18:37 the future. Not not to mention uh
00:18:37 --> 00:18:41 Europa, Enceladus, Ganymede, Kalista,
00:18:41 --> 00:18:46 Triton, all possible. Yepus. Yepus. Yes.
00:18:46 --> 00:18:51 Yes. Uh they, you know, the ice moons in
00:18:51 --> 00:18:54 orbiting the gas giants are all looking,
00:18:54 --> 00:18:56 you know, being looked at favorably for
00:18:56 --> 00:18:59 potential life with their under ice
00:18:59 --> 00:19:01 oceans. So,
00:19:01 --> 00:19:04 uh you can't say never. I mean, we
00:19:04 --> 00:19:06 haven't seen them yet.
00:19:06 --> 00:19:09 We haven't found it yet, but um they
00:19:09 --> 00:19:13 have found the the seeds of life in the
00:19:13 --> 00:19:16 in the geysers coming out of um of one
00:19:16 --> 00:19:19 or two of these moons. Yeah. Um was it
00:19:19 --> 00:19:22 Cassini that did that? Yes. With um
00:19:22 --> 00:19:25 Enceladus. Yeah. Satellitus.
00:19:25 --> 00:19:29 No, it's um the evidence is starting to
00:19:29 --> 00:19:32 build up. I I do believe that we will
00:19:32 --> 00:19:35 find something in our own solar system
00:19:35 --> 00:19:36 in the not too distant
00:19:36 --> 00:19:40 future. That's my theory anyway.
00:19:40 --> 00:19:42 I hope I hope you're right cuz I'd like
00:19:42 --> 00:19:44 to know.
00:19:44 --> 00:19:47 And in answer to the initial question,
00:19:47 --> 00:19:50 why are we so obsessed with life? Um
00:19:50 --> 00:19:53 because we are living creatures and we
00:19:53 --> 00:19:55 want to know if there are any others
00:19:55 --> 00:19:57 beyond our planet. I mean, it's it's a
00:19:57 --> 00:20:00 natural thing to consider. And wouldn't
00:20:00 --> 00:20:01 it be great if we found it? It would be
00:20:02 --> 00:20:05 the the probably the biggest discovery
00:20:05 --> 00:20:08 in the history history of humanity. Yes,
00:20:08 --> 00:20:12 exactly. Even if it's a flea
00:20:12 --> 00:20:15 or krill. I'm still I'm still hanging
00:20:15 --> 00:20:18 hanging over here. Good one. Yes,
00:20:18 --> 00:20:22 there's there's whales. Yes.
00:20:22 --> 00:20:24 Thanks, Mikey. Good to hear from you.
00:20:24 --> 00:20:27 And our next question comes from Fritz
00:20:27 --> 00:20:29 who's put a lot of thought into this
00:20:29 --> 00:20:32 one. Hi Space Nuts, this is Fritz from
00:20:32 --> 00:20:35 Northeast Rural
00:20:35 --> 00:20:39 Georgia. My question is for planetary
00:20:39 --> 00:20:42 scientists and Mars and water on the
00:20:42 --> 00:20:46 surface. Why aren't they discussing
00:20:46 --> 00:20:49 further the melenovich cycles and the
00:20:49 --> 00:20:53 influence on Mars having wetter warmer
00:20:53 --> 00:20:55 phases?
00:20:55 --> 00:20:58 This is part of the oblquity, the axle
00:20:58 --> 00:21:03 tilt, which can range between 10 to
00:21:03 --> 00:21:04
00:21:05 --> 00:21:09 degrees over a range of 120 years up
00:21:09 --> 00:21:11 to a longer
00:21:11 --> 00:21:15 modulation of as much as 1.25 million
00:21:15 --> 00:21:19 years. And uh even at 40% it could
00:21:19 --> 00:21:22 trigger significant ice redistri
00:21:22 --> 00:21:23 redistribution or
00:21:23 --> 00:21:28 melting. And um this could uh change
00:21:28 --> 00:21:31 what's a cold dry period to a surface of
00:21:31 --> 00:21:34 flowing water at times and a wetter
00:21:34 --> 00:21:38 period at times. And this happens
00:21:38 --> 00:21:41 regularly and Mars will have a wet and
00:21:41 --> 00:21:45 warm period again. So, I'm surprised
00:21:45 --> 00:21:47 planetary scientists don't discuss this
00:21:47 --> 00:21:48 when they talk about the loss of water,
00:21:48 --> 00:21:52 but water is there in the perafrost and
00:21:52 --> 00:21:54 such and where did it all go and
00:21:54 --> 00:21:56 everything, but it's not discussed how
00:21:56 --> 00:21:59 it will return. Thanks a lot and love
00:21:59 --> 00:22:02 the show. Can't wait to hear more. Thank
00:22:02 --> 00:22:04 you, Fritz. you kind of touched on that
00:22:04 --> 00:22:07 when you were talking about Mikey's um
00:22:07 --> 00:22:09 question uh and how you know Venus is
00:22:09 --> 00:22:11 probably a write-off but Mars will
00:22:11 --> 00:22:14 actually get back to a state of having
00:22:14 --> 00:22:17 liquid water. Um what what's what's the
00:22:17 --> 00:22:21 Malanchov cycle? What's what uh this
00:22:21 --> 00:22:24 actually the the Melanchovich something
00:22:24 --> 00:22:29 is yes the name of the person who who uh
00:22:29 --> 00:22:33 put the idea on the map that um various
00:22:33 --> 00:22:37 periodicities and they to do with uh the
00:22:37 --> 00:22:39 eccentricity or non-ircularity of an
00:22:39 --> 00:22:43 orbit the incline of the uh you know the
00:22:43 --> 00:22:46 axis in the orbit uh and other
00:22:46 --> 00:22:49 parameters like that that these things
00:22:49 --> 00:22:52 vary in cycles. Mars has had exactly as
00:22:52 --> 00:22:56 Fritz says uh a really big range in its
00:22:56 --> 00:22:59 axial tilt. 10 to 60 degrees is what he
00:22:59 --> 00:23:01 quoted and I think that's about right.
00:23:01 --> 00:23:03 Uh we think the reason why that hasn't
00:23:03 --> 00:23:05 happened on Earth is because the moon
00:23:05 --> 00:23:07 actually stabilizes the Earth's
00:23:07 --> 00:23:09 rotation. So it's the tilt of its axis
00:23:09 --> 00:23:12 has remained much much closer to its
00:23:12 --> 00:23:16 present 23 and a half degrees. Uh but um
00:23:16 --> 00:23:18 I the answer to to Fritz's question is
00:23:18 --> 00:23:20 that actually planetary scientists do
00:23:20 --> 00:23:23 look at this um and you don't have to
00:23:23 --> 00:23:26 look that far to find papers that refer
00:23:26 --> 00:23:31 to these Malinkovich cycle cycles uh in
00:23:31 --> 00:23:34 terms of Mars's climate. Um I found a
00:23:34 --> 00:23:37 nice one by some Swiss authors published
00:23:37 --> 00:23:39 in 2019.
00:23:39 --> 00:23:42 Uh this is called time scales of the
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44 climate record in the south polear ice
00:23:44 --> 00:23:47 cap of Mars and it's basically linking
00:23:47 --> 00:23:52 the ice layer deposits uh in the
00:23:52 --> 00:23:54 basically in the south polar ice cap of
00:23:54 --> 00:23:57 Mars the largest water ice reservoirs on
00:23:57 --> 00:23:58 Mars as they say in the abstract of
00:23:58 --> 00:24:01 their paper uh and linking them to
00:24:01 --> 00:24:03 climate oscillations the Malinkovich
00:24:03 --> 00:24:06 cycles of Mars's orbit um and so that's
00:24:06 --> 00:24:09 quite an interesting paper as I I don't
00:24:09 --> 00:24:11 know whether I mentioned published in
00:24:11 --> 00:24:14 2019 in geohysical research letters. Uh
00:24:14 --> 00:24:16 and there are other papers too that talk
00:24:16 --> 00:24:19 about the climatic effect of these
00:24:19 --> 00:24:21 orbital cycles. So it's not something
00:24:21 --> 00:24:23 that's being ignored by planetary
00:24:23 --> 00:24:25 scientists. I think the view that
00:24:25 --> 00:24:27 they've come to though is that they're
00:24:27 --> 00:24:29 you know they're giving you relatively
00:24:29 --> 00:24:33 uh modest changes in climate. uh the
00:24:33 --> 00:24:36 fact that the solar parameters will
00:24:36 --> 00:24:38 themselves change over time as we were
00:24:38 --> 00:24:40 discussing uh in Mikey's question. Yeah.
00:24:40 --> 00:24:43 Uh that means that even without those
00:24:43 --> 00:24:44 you might find that Mars is warming up
00:24:44 --> 00:24:47 enough that perhaps we will see a warm
00:24:47 --> 00:24:49 wet planet one day but we won't be
00:24:49 --> 00:24:50 around to see it here on planet Earth
00:24:50 --> 00:24:53 because we'll be gone by then. Yeah. Uh
00:24:53 --> 00:24:56 however uh as you said with Mikey's
00:24:56 --> 00:24:59 question that water will probably get it
00:24:59 --> 00:25:02 depends what Yeah. what the what what
00:25:02 --> 00:25:04 the circumstances are. But yeah, check
00:25:04 --> 00:25:06 out um Mars and Melinkovich cycles and
00:25:06 --> 00:25:08 um there's there's quite a few papers
00:25:08 --> 00:25:10 that refer to it. Very good. Thank you,
00:25:10 --> 00:25:13 Fritz. Uh great question though. Uh love
00:25:13 --> 00:25:16 those um those curve balls. That's a
00:25:16 --> 00:25:18 riper. Let's take a little break from
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00:28:37 --> 00:28:39 spaceenuts. and we'll have all that
00:28:39 --> 00:28:42 information in the show notes. Now, back
00:28:42 --> 00:28:44 to the show. Okay, we checked all four
00:28:44 --> 00:28:48 systems and with the space nets. Uh, one
00:28:48 --> 00:28:51 final thought. Uh, and this one comes
00:28:51 --> 00:28:53 from Patty. He said, "Hi, Andrew and
00:28:54 --> 00:28:57 Fred. I have a premise for a book for
00:28:57 --> 00:28:59 Andrew. Uh, your discussion on Martian
00:28:59 --> 00:29:01 water provoked the thought, what if
00:29:01 --> 00:29:04 humans on Mars drink unfiltered water
00:29:04 --> 00:29:08 and ingest a Martian microbe that merges
00:29:08 --> 00:29:11 with human cells like mitochondria did,
00:29:11 --> 00:29:14 resulting in whatever you wish to
00:29:14 --> 00:29:18 continue the story with. Um, I hope you
00:29:18 --> 00:29:21 like the idea. Cheers from Patty. Um, I
00:29:21 --> 00:29:23 do like the idea. Funny, funny you
00:29:23 --> 00:29:26 should bring that up, Patty, because um
00:29:26 --> 00:29:28 this is my last show for a few months.
00:29:28 --> 00:29:31 Uh Judy and I are going around the world
00:29:31 --> 00:29:33 basically and we're going to take our
00:29:33 --> 00:29:37 time. Uh and Judy said, "You know, I
00:29:37 --> 00:29:38 don't want you to get bored. Why why
00:29:38 --> 00:29:40 don't you write a book while you're
00:29:40 --> 00:29:42 away?" And I was trying to come up with
00:29:42 --> 00:29:44 concepts. I was I was thinking about
00:29:44 --> 00:29:47 maybe um you know a
00:29:47 --> 00:29:49 story revolving around Earth building
00:29:50 --> 00:29:52 its own Dyson sphere or some kind of
00:29:52 --> 00:29:55 mega structure but um now you've given
00:29:55 --> 00:29:57 me something else to think about.
00:29:57 --> 00:30:00 So might might go down that road.
00:30:00 --> 00:30:02 Although it it kind of been done before.
00:30:02 --> 00:30:05 There was a movie many many years ago
00:30:05 --> 00:30:09 about a a meteorite that hit Earth and
00:30:09 --> 00:30:11 it had some kind of
00:30:11 --> 00:30:13 viral thing in it that that was
00:30:13 --> 00:30:15 basically killing people. And the whole
00:30:15 --> 00:30:17 story centered around a bunch of
00:30:17 --> 00:30:19 scientists that were basically in
00:30:19 --> 00:30:21 lockdown in some facility in the middle
00:30:21 --> 00:30:23 of the desert trying to figure out how
00:30:23 --> 00:30:25 to stop it. I can't remember what it was
00:30:25 --> 00:30:27 called, but it's a great film. Fabulous
00:30:27 --> 00:30:31 film. Uh scared the beebies out of me.
00:30:31 --> 00:30:33 It was it wasn't the blob or anything
00:30:33 --> 00:30:35 like that. This was just a microbe, but
00:30:35 --> 00:30:39 it had um it it it just was highly
00:30:39 --> 00:30:41 volatile and and very destructive and
00:30:42 --> 00:30:45 yeah. Um but look, def definitely food
00:30:45 --> 00:30:47 for thought, Patty. I'll I'll give it
00:30:47 --> 00:30:50 some consideration and wonder how I can
00:30:50 --> 00:30:52 actually merge that with a Dyson spear
00:30:52 --> 00:30:54 angle. I'm sure you'll manage it,
00:30:54 --> 00:30:56 Andrew. I look forward to hearing about
00:30:56 --> 00:30:59 it when you come back in August. Uh
00:30:59 --> 00:31:01 we'll I'll probably get a full rundown
00:31:01 --> 00:31:05 of what the plot is. Yes. Um I a few
00:31:05 --> 00:31:06 people have contacted me saying, "Oh,
00:31:06 --> 00:31:09 when are you in New York?" I might and
00:31:09 --> 00:31:11 things like that. So Oh, wow. Cool. We
00:31:11 --> 00:31:13 might be able to track a few people down
00:31:13 --> 00:31:15 and have a chat. But look, uh what I'm
00:31:15 --> 00:31:18 going to try and do during uh the the
00:31:18 --> 00:31:20 trip is do some monologues back into the
00:31:20 --> 00:31:22 show so I can give you updates of what
00:31:22 --> 00:31:24 we're doing. So if anyone's interested,
00:31:24 --> 00:31:27 if you're not, I'll just stay out of it.
00:31:27 --> 00:31:29 I think that would be great. I think you
00:31:29 --> 00:31:31 should uh do that. It will um be
00:31:31 --> 00:31:33 something that Heidi and I can fit into
00:31:33 --> 00:31:36 the into the scheme of things, I hope.
00:31:36 --> 00:31:38 And um and enjoy it very much. So, we
00:31:38 --> 00:31:40 look forward to that. Not every week,
00:31:40 --> 00:31:43 but uh we're going to some interesting
00:31:43 --> 00:31:45 places. So, um there might be something
00:31:45 --> 00:31:48 to talk about. Um we'll we'll see. Looks
00:31:48 --> 00:31:50 like every time we go somewhere there's
00:31:50 --> 00:31:53 a volcano, it erupts. So,
00:31:53 --> 00:31:56 might be able to that. We'll we'll see
00:31:56 --> 00:31:58 how it goes. Um but yeah, we've been
00:31:58 --> 00:32:00 planning this trip for a long long time
00:32:00 --> 00:32:03 and um we yeah, we we head off next
00:32:03 --> 00:32:07 week. So, very exciting. Very exciting.
00:32:07 --> 00:32:09 Um and that brings us to the end. Thanks
00:32:09 --> 00:32:10 to everybody who contributed. Keep the
00:32:10 --> 00:32:12 questions coming because Heidi will need
00:32:12 --> 00:32:15 them to try and stump Fred. Uh which is
00:32:15 --> 00:32:19 very very hard to do. Um but yes, um
00:32:19 --> 00:32:22 just go to our website and send them via
00:32:22 --> 00:32:25 the AMA tab. So, uh, there's, um, two
00:32:25 --> 00:32:26 URLs.
00:32:26 --> 00:32:29 Spacenuts.io or
00:32:29 --> 00:32:31 spaceennutspodcast.com and keep those,
00:32:32 --> 00:32:34 uh, keep those messages coming in. Um,
00:32:34 --> 00:32:37 and and Heidi and Fred will tackle them
00:32:37 --> 00:32:38 over the next few months. Gosh, it's
00:32:38 --> 00:32:40 hard to believe that it'll be that long,
00:32:40 --> 00:32:42 but um, yeah, I've never been away from
00:32:42 --> 00:32:46 home that for that long in my life. Um,
00:32:46 --> 00:32:48 but, you know, it'll be exciting. Uh,
00:32:48 --> 00:32:50 and thank you as always, Fred. Thank you
00:32:50 --> 00:32:52 very much. As always, a pleasure,
00:32:52 --> 00:32:54 Andrew. And uh yeah, have a great trip.
00:32:54 --> 00:32:57 We hope everything goes well for you. I
00:32:57 --> 00:32:59 look forward to seeing your emails from
00:32:59 --> 00:33:00 time to time to find out what's
00:33:00 --> 00:33:02 happening. I'd be interested to know
00:33:02 --> 00:33:03 whether you'll be homeless when you get
00:33:03 --> 00:33:06 back. It's a distinct possibility. We
00:33:06 --> 00:33:09 put a house on the market and just deal
00:33:09 --> 00:33:11 with all that when we get home. Yeah,
00:33:11 --> 00:33:13 there you go. No, it's good. Good. Good
00:33:13 --> 00:33:15 stuff. And so have a great time both you
00:33:15 --> 00:33:17 and Judy. And uh we'll speak again in
00:33:17 --> 00:33:20 August. Indeed. Thank you, Fred. Thanks
00:33:20 --> 00:33:21 as always. It's been uh it's been
00:33:22 --> 00:33:23 terrific. And uh thanks to Hugh in the
00:33:24 --> 00:33:26 studio who couldn't be with us today. He
00:33:26 --> 00:33:29 tried to ride a Mealankovich cycle and
00:33:29 --> 00:33:30 the chain fell
00:33:30 --> 00:33:33 off. And from me, Andrew Duncle, thanks
00:33:33 --> 00:33:34 to your company. See you in a few
00:33:34 --> 00:33:37 months. Bye-bye. Space. You'll be
00:33:37 --> 00:33:41 listening to the Space Nuts podcast
00:33:41 --> 00:33:44 available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
00:33:44 --> 00:33:47 iHeart Radio, or your favorite podcast
00:33:47 --> 00:33:49 player. You can also stream on demand at
00:33:49 --> 00:33:52 byes.com. This has been another quality
00:33:52 --> 00:33:56 podcast production from byes.com.