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Space Nuts Episode 509: Neptune's Secrets, Lunar Dust Shields, and the Helix Nebula
In this exciting episode of Space Nuts, fill-in host Heidi Campo joins astronomer Fred Watson to explore some of the cosmos' most intriguing phenomena. From the latest discoveries about Neptune's atmosphere to innovative solutions for lunar dust challenges, and the mysteries of the Helix Nebula, listeners are in for a treat filled with cosmic insights and engaging discussions.
Episode Highlights:
- Neptune's Atmosphere: Heidi and Fred dive into the recent observations made by the James Webb Space Telescope, revealing the presence of auroras on Neptune and discussing its unique atmospheric conditions, including record-breaking winds and intriguing cloud formations.
- Lunar Dust Shield Innovations: The duo explores NASA's new Electrodynamic Dust Shield, designed to repel lunar regolith, and its potential applications for future lunar missions and even everyday life on Earth.
- Helix Nebula Mysteries: The episode wraps up with a discussion about the Helix Nebula, its stunning visuals, and the fascinating theory surrounding the remnants of a planet that was destroyed as its star transitioned into a white dwarf.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
(00:00) Welcome to Space Nuts with Heidi Campo and Fred Watson
(01:40) Discussion on Neptune's auroras and atmospheric conditions
(11:20) The innovative Electrodynamic Dust Shield for lunar missions
(22:15) Exploring the Helix Nebula and its planetary ghost
(30:00) Final thoughts and reflections on space exploration
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Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/26428218?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:04 welcome to Space Nuts my name is Heidi
00:00:04 --> 00:00:06 Compo and I'm here with Fred Watson
00:00:06 --> 00:00:09 astronomer at large and I bet many of
00:00:09 --> 00:00:11 you are wondering who is this lady why
00:00:11 --> 00:00:14 is she here where is Andrew i can assure
00:00:14 --> 00:00:16 you he is just fine and probably having
00:00:16 --> 00:00:19 the time of his life i am here filling
00:00:19 --> 00:00:22 in helping him out while he is on a
00:00:22 --> 00:00:26 little break and I I found safe space
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28 originally from just being a listener
00:00:28 --> 00:00:31 myself i also have a podcast Reality
00:00:31 --> 00:00:33 Check: The Science of Fiction where I
00:00:33 --> 00:00:35 talk to subject matter experts about the
00:00:35 --> 00:00:39 plausibility of sci-fi concepts and I am
00:00:39 --> 00:00:42 a graduate student here in space city
00:00:42 --> 00:00:45 Houston Texas and I'm focusing on
00:00:45 --> 00:00:48 spaceflight human optimization and
00:00:48 --> 00:00:51 performance so I have a very interesting
00:00:51 --> 00:00:54 segue into the space world i'm really
00:00:54 --> 00:00:57 interested in a lot of the I guess the
00:00:57 --> 00:01:00 sci-fi concepts that integrate into
00:01:00 --> 00:01:02 space science and all the new
00:01:02 --> 00:01:04 discoveries that Fred knows so much
00:01:04 --> 00:01:08 about and I'm excited to be here as your
00:01:08 --> 00:01:11 fillin host for this episode 15 seconds
00:01:11 --> 00:01:15 guidance is internal 10 9 ignition
00:01:15 --> 00:01:20 sequence start space nets 5 4 3 2 1 2 3
00:01:20 --> 00:01:24 4 5 5 4 3 2 1 Space nuts astronauts
00:01:24 --> 00:01:27 report it feels good fred thanks for
00:01:27 --> 00:01:30 having me uh you're very welcome Heidi
00:01:30 --> 00:01:33 uh it's a delight to welcome you to the
00:01:33 --> 00:01:37 Space Nuts team uh it's very appropriate
00:01:37 --> 00:01:38 I think that we should be beaming
00:01:38 --> 00:01:41 beaming out from Houston Texas uh and
00:01:41 --> 00:01:44 what better person to fit into Andrew's
00:01:44 --> 00:01:46 empty shoes at the moment than yourself
00:01:46 --> 00:01:49 uh it's uh lovely to have you and I'm
00:01:49 --> 00:01:51 really looking forward to our our next
00:01:51 --> 00:01:53 few sessions when we can chat together
00:01:53 --> 00:01:56 behind Andrew's back
00:01:56 --> 00:01:59 no this is going to be great so we have
00:01:59 --> 00:02:02 some really interesting topics this week
00:02:02 --> 00:02:04 i was looking over them um we're going
00:02:04 --> 00:02:07 to be talking about the blue ghost uh
00:02:07 --> 00:02:10 sojourn on Mars or sorry on the moon and
00:02:10 --> 00:02:13 that looked really interesting to me the
00:02:13 --> 00:02:14 other thing we're going to be talking
00:02:14 --> 00:02:17 about is some of the activity with the
00:02:17 --> 00:02:21 James Webb telescope about Neptune so
00:02:21 --> 00:02:23 that's a planet we really don't talk as
00:02:23 --> 00:02:26 much about neptune is really kind of the
00:02:26 --> 00:02:28 ignored stepchild of the solar system so
00:02:28 --> 00:02:30 I'm excited to hear what you have to say
00:02:30 --> 00:02:32 about that activity and then the last
00:02:32 --> 00:02:34 thing we'll be talking today about today
00:02:34 --> 00:02:39 is the Helix Nebula and some really
00:02:39 --> 00:02:42 exciting new discoveries going on with
00:02:42 --> 00:02:46 that so I think that I would be
00:02:46 --> 00:02:49 interested in just jumping right in with
00:02:49 --> 00:02:54 the Neptune story
00:02:54 --> 00:02:57 excellent um a good planet to start with
00:02:57 --> 00:03:00 Heidi uh and you're absolutely right um
00:03:00 --> 00:03:04 Neptune has only been visited by once by
00:03:04 --> 00:03:07 um you know a human-built spacecraft
00:03:07 --> 00:03:09 maybe there were alien spacecraft that
00:03:09 --> 00:03:11 have visited it but only one human built
00:03:11 --> 00:03:15 one uh which was Voyager 2 uh and um so
00:03:15 --> 00:03:18 what we know about it really comes very
00:03:18 --> 00:03:20 much from the images that were taken
00:03:20 --> 00:03:23 when Voyager 2 flew by Neptune that was
00:03:23 --> 00:03:27 in the 80s uh but Neptune of course is a
00:03:27 --> 00:03:30 world that has an active atmosphere it's
00:03:30 --> 00:03:31 an ice giant one of the two ice giants
00:03:32 --> 00:03:34 in the uh in the outer solar system and
00:03:34 --> 00:03:37 and that term refers to the fact that we
00:03:37 --> 00:03:40 believe there are solid ices as a kind
00:03:40 --> 00:03:43 of haze in the atmosphere of Neptune um
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45 so it's slightly different from the
00:03:45 --> 00:03:49 other two gas giants uh Jupiter uh and
00:03:49 --> 00:03:52 Saturn which are they they don't have
00:03:52 --> 00:03:53 those icy hazes because their
00:03:53 --> 00:03:56 temperature is just slightly warmer uh
00:03:56 --> 00:03:59 being nearer the sun um so the really
00:03:59 --> 00:04:02 interesting thing was when uh the flyby
00:04:02 --> 00:04:06 uh with Voyager 2 took place um Neptune
00:04:06 --> 00:04:09 looked very boring uh it had a you know
00:04:09 --> 00:04:12 it was just like a a pale blue green
00:04:12 --> 00:04:15 disc with not much happening uh and I
00:04:15 --> 00:04:17 think that probably did it a disservice
00:04:17 --> 00:04:19 because we've you know we thought of
00:04:20 --> 00:04:22 this planet as having rather
00:04:22 --> 00:04:24 uninteresting atmospherics although
00:04:24 --> 00:04:26 subsequent measurements made from earth
00:04:26 --> 00:04:30 actually uh demonstrated that it does
00:04:30 --> 00:04:33 have high winds in its atmosphere uh and
00:04:33 --> 00:04:36 just a mention to uh the the the system
00:04:36 --> 00:04:39 of moons of Neptune because uh some of
00:04:39 --> 00:04:41 those are particularly interesting as
00:04:41 --> 00:04:44 well triton is its largest moon it may
00:04:44 --> 00:04:47 well be one of these ice worlds with a
00:04:47 --> 00:04:50 uh with a rocky core an overlying ocean
00:04:50 --> 00:04:53 a global ocean and ice on top but that's
00:04:53 --> 00:04:55 not what we're talking about today uh so
00:04:56 --> 00:04:59 so uh what's the story why is Neptune in
00:04:59 --> 00:05:02 the news well it it's because as you
00:05:02 --> 00:05:04 might expect it has been a subject of
00:05:04 --> 00:05:08 observation by uh basically astronomy's
00:05:08 --> 00:05:12 new toy still new after 3 years I guess
00:05:12 --> 00:05:15 now uh the James Web Space Telescope um
00:05:15 --> 00:05:18 with its marvelous infrared cameras uh
00:05:18 --> 00:05:21 and very very sensitive spectroscopic
00:05:21 --> 00:05:26 systems so what has been uh detected by
00:05:26 --> 00:05:29 the web is something that we've known
00:05:30 --> 00:05:33 about uh maybe hinted at uh by earlier
00:05:33 --> 00:05:37 observations over a long period of time
00:05:37 --> 00:05:39 uh probably since those the the Voyager
00:05:39 --> 00:05:43 flyby uh that um it has aurori or
00:05:43 --> 00:05:46 auroras if you want to be less uh pick
00:05:46 --> 00:05:49 um picky about your Latin uh aurori um
00:05:49 --> 00:05:51 northern and southern light like we have
00:05:51 --> 00:05:54 on Earth like the other gas giants
00:05:54 --> 00:05:57 themselves have uh but the problem is
00:05:57 --> 00:06:00 you know uh hints are fine but what you
00:06:00 --> 00:06:03 really want is a kind of signature of
00:06:03 --> 00:06:05 these things in the spectrum the the
00:06:05 --> 00:06:09 sort of rainbow of colors that we see uh
00:06:09 --> 00:06:11 when we split the light up uh into into
00:06:11 --> 00:06:14 those components and that as we've
00:06:14 --> 00:06:16 discussed many times on space nuts those
00:06:16 --> 00:06:20 spectra are crossed by a kind of almost
00:06:20 --> 00:06:24 like a a you know a supermarket barcode
00:06:24 --> 00:06:26 uh of information which we can read and
00:06:26 --> 00:06:29 detect what gases are involved with
00:06:29 --> 00:06:33 these with these spectral colors so uh
00:06:33 --> 00:06:36 yes the James Web has thrown its might
00:06:36 --> 00:06:39 behind observations of Neptune and sure
00:06:39 --> 00:06:43 enough we have found strong emission uh
00:06:43 --> 00:06:47 of the the kind of telltale elements uh
00:06:47 --> 00:06:50 that indicate auroral activity and
00:06:50 --> 00:06:53 remember uh aurora are caused by the the
00:06:53 --> 00:06:55 the solar particles the subatomic
00:06:55 --> 00:06:57 particles that come from the sun
00:06:57 --> 00:06:59 interacting with the atmosphere of a
00:06:59 --> 00:07:01 planet that's what causes the glow and
00:07:01 --> 00:07:02 that's why it has characteristic colors
00:07:02 --> 00:07:05 because the glow itself comes from the
00:07:05 --> 00:07:08 elements in the atmosphere so yes aurori
00:07:08 --> 00:07:12 on Neptune uh and very similar to the
00:07:12 --> 00:07:15 phenomenon on earth but different colors
00:07:15 --> 00:07:17 uh because it's different elements that
00:07:17 --> 00:07:20 are being excited the green in in Aurori
00:07:20 --> 00:07:22 here on Earth comes from oxygen uh which
00:07:22 --> 00:07:25 isn't there on Neptune so the colors are
00:07:26 --> 00:07:27 coming from they're actually coming from
00:07:27 --> 00:07:29 hydrogen
00:07:29 --> 00:07:30 yeah it's absolutely beautiful i'm
00:07:30 --> 00:07:32 looking at these images right now it
00:07:32 --> 00:07:34 reminds me of one of those uh mood rings
00:07:34 --> 00:07:36 that were really popular in the '9s
00:07:36 --> 00:07:39 where it starts to change color it's uh
00:07:39 --> 00:07:41 really spectacular to see and I'm seeing
00:07:41 --> 00:07:43 in this image so you you just described
00:07:43 --> 00:07:46 that the greenish color comes from um
00:07:46 --> 00:07:50 hydrogen i'm seeing also spots of white
00:07:50 --> 00:07:53 cuz if you look at the images of Hubble
00:07:53 --> 00:07:55 which it's pretty much just blue all the
00:07:55 --> 00:07:58 way across and then the image of the web
00:07:58 --> 00:08:00 um there's some big white spots is that
00:08:00 --> 00:08:05 part of the aura um I suspect um some of
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 those are clouds uh which are also now
00:08:08 --> 00:08:11 visible in the infrared we see similar
00:08:11 --> 00:08:13 things on uh in the atmosphere of Uranus
00:08:13 --> 00:08:17 white spots which are um very extensive
00:08:17 --> 00:08:20 areas of cloud in the atmosphere um the
00:08:20 --> 00:08:23 the atmospheric circulation um you know
00:08:23 --> 00:08:26 on on both those ice giants Uranus and
00:08:26 --> 00:08:29 Neptune is relatively slow in terms of
00:08:30 --> 00:08:33 the uh the changes in the atmosphere and
00:08:33 --> 00:08:34 that's partly because the temperature
00:08:34 --> 00:08:39 there is - 214° C at the surface but
00:08:39 --> 00:08:41 that doesn't um necessarily mean that
00:08:41 --> 00:08:43 you don't get high winds and in fact um
00:08:43 --> 00:08:48 it I think uh the winds on Neptune uh
00:08:48 --> 00:08:50 are the record-breaking winds in the
00:08:50 --> 00:08:51 atmosphere of a planet in the solar
00:08:51 --> 00:08:55 system up to 2 kilometers per hour
00:08:55 --> 00:08:59 um that's what's that that's about 18 uh
00:08:59 --> 00:09:03 1 miles hour so it's that's very
00:09:03 --> 00:09:04 fast i'm thinking of it in hurricane
00:09:04 --> 00:09:07 terms yeah it's super hurricane that's
00:09:07 --> 00:09:10 right um and I think um that there is
00:09:10 --> 00:09:14 also uh on Neptune there is a something
00:09:14 --> 00:09:17 that's sort of related to the great red
00:09:17 --> 00:09:21 spots on Jupiter a storm a long lived
00:09:21 --> 00:09:23 storm and maybe that's what's showing up
00:09:23 --> 00:09:26 as the some of the white spots or at
00:09:26 --> 00:09:27 least one of the white spot i'm just
00:09:27 --> 00:09:29 looking for them now there is a big
00:09:29 --> 00:09:31 white spot in the middle of the um the
00:09:31 --> 00:09:35 JWST images uh but I think the poles is
00:09:35 --> 00:09:38 the aurora and you've just reminded me
00:09:38 --> 00:09:39 though looking at those pictures one of
00:09:40 --> 00:09:40 the
00:09:40 --> 00:09:43 peculiarities of Neptune is that we
00:09:43 --> 00:09:45 think it's
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 magnetic axis that the two magnetic
00:09:48 --> 00:09:52 poles um are tilted well over to sort of
00:09:52 --> 00:09:54 middle latitudes unlike here on Earth
00:09:54 --> 00:09:57 where they they don't exactly align
00:09:57 --> 00:09:58 magnetic north is not the same as
00:09:58 --> 00:10:00 geographic north but the the magnetic
00:10:00 --> 00:10:02 poles more or less align with the
00:10:02 --> 00:10:06 rotation of the planet uh and that's
00:10:06 --> 00:10:08 probably to do with the fact that we
00:10:08 --> 00:10:09 think these that the earth's magnetism
00:10:10 --> 00:10:13 is generated by uh the circulation of
00:10:13 --> 00:10:17 the iron uh and nickel core uh which is
00:10:17 --> 00:10:19 in two parts and it sort of acts like a
00:10:19 --> 00:10:21 dynamo and that generates a magnetic
00:10:21 --> 00:10:24 field um Neptune and probably the other
00:10:24 --> 00:10:26 gas giants have something similar we
00:10:26 --> 00:10:27 really don't understand the origin of
00:10:27 --> 00:10:29 their magnetism we don't know whether
00:10:29 --> 00:10:31 there's a solid core or not in the gas
00:10:31 --> 00:10:33 giants we suspect there must be in order
00:10:33 --> 00:10:35 for them to have these strong magnetic
00:10:35 --> 00:10:37 fields but on Neptune the magnet the
00:10:37 --> 00:10:39 magnetic field is tilted over at quite a
00:10:40 --> 00:10:42 considerable angle to the rotation of
00:10:42 --> 00:10:45 the planet uh which is why the aurori
00:10:45 --> 00:10:47 appear at mid latitudes on Neptune
00:10:48 --> 00:10:50 rather than near the poles as they do
00:10:50 --> 00:10:52 here on Earth as I know well from my
00:10:52 --> 00:10:56 sojun up in the Arctic two months ago
00:10:56 --> 00:11:00 yeah so I I have heard there's something
00:11:00 --> 00:11:03 going on with Neptune's orbit it's
00:11:03 --> 00:11:05 either wobbly or it changes or something
00:11:05 --> 00:11:06 like that would that have anything to do
00:11:06 --> 00:11:10 with this tilt um it it is possible you
00:11:10 --> 00:11:14 know the two may be related um usually
00:11:14 --> 00:11:18 the rotation of a planet and its
00:11:18 --> 00:11:24 orbit are fairly decoupled um and you've
00:11:24 --> 00:11:26 only to look at Uranus which you know as
00:11:26 --> 00:11:29 you know is tilted over nine degrees I
00:11:29 --> 00:11:31 think it's nine degrees below below the
00:11:32 --> 00:11:33 uh the what you might call the
00:11:33 --> 00:11:36 horizontal the plane of its orbit uh and
00:11:36 --> 00:11:39 um Uranus has a reasonably
00:11:39 --> 00:11:42 well sort of well- behaved orbit um
00:11:42 --> 00:11:45 Neptune's interesting because it's in
00:11:45 --> 00:11:48 modern parliament it represents the the
00:11:48 --> 00:11:51 outermost planet of the solar system uh
00:11:51 --> 00:11:54 and it does affect the orbits of the
00:11:54 --> 00:11:56 many myriads of objects that we know lie
00:11:56 --> 00:11:58 beyond that the so-called trans
00:11:58 --> 00:12:00 neptunian objects which include things
00:12:00 --> 00:12:02 in the Kiper belt and things called
00:12:02 --> 00:12:04 resonant objects like Plutos plutos are
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07 resonant objects because it resonates in
00:12:07 --> 00:12:09 its orbital period with Neptune and the
00:12:09 --> 00:12:11 and the scattered disc objects as they
00:12:11 --> 00:12:14 called way beyond that uh so it it could
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16 be um that Neptune's orbit is
00:12:16 --> 00:12:17 interacting with those although a big
00:12:17 --> 00:12:20 planet like Neptune it takes a lot to
00:12:20 --> 00:12:23 shift its orbit to to per perturb it so
00:12:23 --> 00:12:25 I I haven't seen those reports that
00:12:25 --> 00:12:27 you've mentioned and um everything
00:12:27 --> 00:12:29 you've just heard is complete waffle but
00:12:29 --> 00:12:31 that's the way it works when you're
00:12:31 --> 00:12:32 talking about things you've not seen
00:12:32 --> 00:12:35 before right and I think there's just so
00:12:35 --> 00:12:39 much of that with space it's uh the the
00:12:39 --> 00:12:42 I was at a NASA tech talk last week and
00:12:42 --> 00:12:43 one of the they were me they were
00:12:43 --> 00:12:45 talking about SANS which is an ocular
00:12:46 --> 00:12:48 syndrome that the astronauts experience
00:12:48 --> 00:12:50 or they have issues with their eyes and
00:12:50 --> 00:12:51 for those of you listening my little dog
00:12:52 --> 00:12:53 spiking for attention in the corner
00:12:53 --> 00:12:55 we're just going to ignore them play
00:12:55 --> 00:12:58 time when we're done recording but um
00:12:58 --> 00:13:01 the the uh presenter he brought he was a
00:13:01 --> 00:13:03 flight surgeon and he brought up so many
00:13:03 --> 00:13:06 funny headlines and articles it's NASA
00:13:06 --> 00:13:08 scientists say this and this he's like I
00:13:08 --> 00:13:10 cannot find these experts yes if anybody
00:13:10 --> 00:13:12 knows these experts that this headline
00:13:12 --> 00:13:14 is claiming to talk about please let me
00:13:14 --> 00:13:16 know because this is all wrong so I
00:13:16 --> 00:13:17 think there's a lot of that in the space
00:13:17 --> 00:13:19 industry
00:13:19 --> 00:13:21 so that that's a really interesting
00:13:21 --> 00:13:23 syndrome isn't it because that's one of
00:13:23 --> 00:13:26 the potential longived um u consequences
00:13:26 --> 00:13:30 of of um long-term space flight that
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33 you've got these ocular effects um my
00:13:33 --> 00:13:35 Sorry we've we're way off topic here
00:13:35 --> 00:13:38 Heidi but that's all right
00:13:38 --> 00:13:41 um hello i've forgotten your dog simba
00:13:41 --> 00:13:43 like the Lion King you know he's wagging
00:13:43 --> 00:13:46 his tail he's He's trying as hard as he
00:13:46 --> 00:13:49 can to be as cute as possible
00:13:49 --> 00:13:52 he's doing a fine job the tail wager he
00:13:52 --> 00:13:54 thinks if he's cuter I'll stop recording
00:13:54 --> 00:13:57 and go play with him yeah I I know the
00:13:57 --> 00:14:01 syndrome um so this what I've read is
00:14:01 --> 00:14:04 that it may be caused by the fact that
00:14:04 --> 00:14:05 you know the circulation in the body the
00:14:05 --> 00:14:08 blood circulation in the body changes in
00:14:08 --> 00:14:10 microgravity and that you might well
00:14:10 --> 00:14:15 have uh pressures in the cranium that
00:14:15 --> 00:14:17 might affect the eyes in a way that we
00:14:17 --> 00:14:19 don't have on Earth is that the thinking
00:14:19 --> 00:14:21 or am I just making that up you're
00:14:21 --> 00:14:23 absolutely spot on yeah it's it's has
00:14:23 --> 00:14:25 everything to do with fluid so when the
00:14:25 --> 00:14:28 fluid changes in the body we normally
00:14:28 --> 00:14:30 have gravity pulling that fluid away
00:14:30 --> 00:14:32 from the head but when we're in space
00:14:32 --> 00:14:35 the fluid tends to you know pull up
00:14:35 --> 00:14:38 towards our head and shift in places
00:14:38 --> 00:14:40 that we don't necessarily want it so
00:14:40 --> 00:14:43 there that is a leading issue um and
00:14:43 --> 00:14:45 causing that pressure and then there
00:14:45 --> 00:14:47 were you know there were so many other
00:14:47 --> 00:14:49 points and tangents with that but um
00:14:49 --> 00:14:51 we're learning so much more about it now
00:14:51 --> 00:14:53 and one of the really interesting things
00:14:53 --> 00:14:55 with space medicine and human
00:14:55 --> 00:14:57 performance in space is when we're
00:14:57 --> 00:14:58 looking at the research we'll have like
00:14:58 --> 00:15:01 an N of eight and for those of you
00:15:01 --> 00:15:03 non-science people N is your subject
00:15:03 --> 00:15:06 number so you know when we're looking at
00:15:06 --> 00:15:08 you know cancer research that can be in
00:15:08 --> 00:15:11 the hundreds or thousands of data points
00:15:11 --> 00:15:12 that we're looking at but when we're
00:15:12 --> 00:15:14 talking about astronaut health it's just
00:15:14 --> 00:15:17 a handful of people so there's really
00:15:17 --> 00:15:20 there's as much as we know about it is
00:15:20 --> 00:15:22 with the people that have been to space
00:15:22 --> 00:15:24 already and that's one reason why I'm so
00:15:24 --> 00:15:27 excited about what some of these other
00:15:27 --> 00:15:29 companies are doing like Blue Origin
00:15:29 --> 00:15:31 Axiom Virgin that are getting more and
00:15:31 --> 00:15:33 more people into space so that we can
00:15:33 --> 00:15:36 learn more about space health which does
00:15:36 --> 00:15:39 influence health on Earth
00:15:39 --> 00:15:41 there's so much we've learned about
00:15:41 --> 00:15:43 space medicine that has helped improve
00:15:43 --> 00:15:45 life on Earth
00:15:45 --> 00:15:48 which is remarkable and um and and great
00:15:48 --> 00:15:50 news and one of the you know the many
00:15:50 --> 00:15:54 many many benefits of space exploration
00:15:54 --> 00:15:57 uh we've got another commercial flight
00:15:57 --> 00:15:59 about to launch I think within the next
00:15:59 --> 00:16:00 few days is that right the Framm 2
00:16:00 --> 00:16:03 mission oh they are going all the time i
00:16:03 --> 00:16:05 uh don't I can't even keep up with all
00:16:05 --> 00:16:08 of them sometimes yeah that's what
00:16:08 --> 00:16:13 um you should listen to this show for
00:16:13 --> 00:16:15 so I have another Depune question and I
00:16:15 --> 00:16:18 want to segue this in with the humans in
00:16:18 --> 00:16:20 the people part i love that are you
00:16:20 --> 00:16:23 familiar with the book it's a book and a
00:16:23 --> 00:16:25 TV series called The Expanse are you
00:16:25 --> 00:16:30 familiar with it um um no um and um I um
00:16:30 --> 00:16:34 I apologize for that um because I I
00:16:34 --> 00:16:35 there's so much going on out there that
00:16:35 --> 00:16:38 I simply don't have time to read or look
00:16:38 --> 00:16:41 at and understand yeah I rely on I
00:16:41 --> 00:16:43 certainly rely on Andrew uh keeping
00:16:43 --> 00:16:45 keeping me honest in regards to science
00:16:45 --> 00:16:47 fiction and I'm sure the same is going
00:16:47 --> 00:16:48 to be true with you but no I don't know
00:16:48 --> 00:16:52 about the So in the expanse they have um
00:16:52 --> 00:16:55 they have populated the solar system
00:16:55 --> 00:16:57 there's people living on Earth Mars and
00:16:57 --> 00:16:59 there are also people living out in the
00:16:59 --> 00:17:02 asteroid belts they call them belters
00:17:02 --> 00:17:05 and these people are multigenerations
00:17:05 --> 00:17:07 born in space so they have phys
00:17:07 --> 00:17:10 physiologically adapted to life in space
00:17:10 --> 00:17:12 so they have become physically different
00:17:12 --> 00:17:14 from people born on earth because of the
00:17:14 --> 00:17:16 gravities and the systems there so I
00:17:16 --> 00:17:18 want to segue this back into talking
00:17:18 --> 00:17:20 about Neptune because we have ice we
00:17:20 --> 00:17:24 have wind and from what I do know about
00:17:24 --> 00:17:27 greenhouse gases um and thinking about
00:17:27 --> 00:17:30 the expanse there has been some chatter
00:17:30 --> 00:17:34 about putting some
00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 industrial factories and whatnot on Mars
00:17:37 --> 00:17:39 eventually to help generate greenhouse
00:17:39 --> 00:17:42 gases to help increase atmosphere on
00:17:42 --> 00:17:46 Mars is this something because I always
00:17:46 --> 00:17:47 like to think about what we're looking
00:17:47 --> 00:17:49 at and seeing with these auroras and
00:17:49 --> 00:17:50 space and everything we're learning and
00:17:50 --> 00:17:53 what does it mean for future generations
00:17:53 --> 00:17:57 could could Neptune potentially be um a
00:17:57 --> 00:18:00 big power generating planet with these
00:18:00 --> 00:18:04 winds if we could harvest these winds
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07 what a lovely idea um um wind turbines
00:18:07 --> 00:18:12 on Neptune now that's really a really um
00:18:12 --> 00:18:16 expansive idea if I can um use the joke
00:18:16 --> 00:18:21 there uh it's um so um it the the
00:18:21 --> 00:18:25 likelihood is that um with as with so
00:18:25 --> 00:18:28 many things that people talk about doing
00:18:28 --> 00:18:32 in space it's actually easier not to uh
00:18:32 --> 00:18:36 to find alternative sources uh of
00:18:36 --> 00:18:38 whatever it is you're trying to generate
00:18:38 --> 00:18:42 um and the the the the winds on Neptune
00:18:42 --> 00:18:44 colossal winds as we've said you know up
00:18:44 --> 00:18:46 to maybe approaching 2 miles per
00:18:46 --> 00:18:48 hour
00:18:48 --> 00:18:52 uh how you would generate them it's hard
00:18:52 --> 00:18:55 to know what might be interesting though
00:18:55 --> 00:18:57 is if you could use them sorry how you
00:18:58 --> 00:19:00 could use how you could use those winds
00:19:00 --> 00:19:03 to generate power it's hard to know but
00:19:03 --> 00:19:05 if you could um use those winds to
00:19:05 --> 00:19:08 facilitate exploration of the planet's
00:19:08 --> 00:19:10 atmosphere and that something I could
00:19:10 --> 00:19:12 well imagine you know people dropping um
00:19:12 --> 00:19:15 balloons into the atmosphere of of
00:19:15 --> 00:19:17 Neptune uh to watch the circulation to
00:19:18 --> 00:19:21 do what we do here on Earth with uh um
00:19:21 --> 00:19:25 our multiple capacity for for uh
00:19:25 --> 00:19:28 measuring and predicting the weather so
00:19:28 --> 00:19:29 weather on Neptune might be something
00:19:29 --> 00:19:31 that turns out to be quite interesting i
00:19:32 --> 00:19:36 think um a more in some ways a more
00:19:36 --> 00:19:39 uh what's the word opposite maybe is the
00:19:39 --> 00:19:42 right word uh world uh to be interested
00:19:42 --> 00:19:44 in in the Neptune system is is moon
00:19:44 --> 00:19:47 Triton because that could turn out to be
00:19:47 --> 00:19:49 you know one of the places like Europa
00:19:49 --> 00:19:51 and Enteladus that has the potential for
00:19:51 --> 00:19:53 perhaps living organisms beneath the
00:19:53 --> 00:19:57 surface and that is very exciting very
00:19:57 --> 00:19:59 exciting and it really just comes down
00:19:59 --> 00:20:02 to the human ingenuity the engineering
00:20:02 --> 00:20:03 and all the new breakthroughs that we're
00:20:03 --> 00:20:05 making it seems like every single day
00:20:05 --> 00:20:07 there's more stuff that we're coming up
00:20:07 --> 00:20:10 with to get us out there
00:20:10 --> 00:20:12 okay let's take a quick break from the
00:20:12 --> 00:20:15 show to give a shout out to our sponsor
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00:21:45 --> 00:21:47 nordvpn.com/spacenuts all right let's
00:21:47 --> 00:21:50 get back to the show
00:21:50 --> 00:21:52 space nuts which I think is kind of a
00:21:52 --> 00:21:58 good segue into our next story um so
00:21:58 --> 00:22:02 NASA's created this new dust shield and
00:22:02 --> 00:22:05 it's going to help repel the lunar
00:22:05 --> 00:22:09 regalith which is very important uh the
00:22:09 --> 00:22:11 regalith is
00:22:11 --> 00:22:15 very fine it's very sticky it can be
00:22:15 --> 00:22:18 kind of dangerous if this is getting in
00:22:18 --> 00:22:20 their um analoges and their facilities
00:22:20 --> 00:22:22 and where they're living so tell me more
00:22:22 --> 00:22:24 about this this is quite the interesting
00:22:24 --> 00:22:27 story
00:22:27 --> 00:22:31 that's um that that's Jordy
00:22:31 --> 00:22:33 um let let me just check what's
00:22:34 --> 00:22:35 happening because it's he does sound
00:22:35 --> 00:22:38 like a chicken yeah jordy jordy jordy
00:22:38 --> 00:22:40 johnny
00:22:40 --> 00:22:42 uh I do apologize he does sound like a
00:22:42 --> 00:22:44 chicken he does doesn't he yeah he's
00:22:44 --> 00:22:46 just like a rooster he doesn't know that
00:22:46 --> 00:22:49 he thinks he sounds like a big Just calm
00:22:49 --> 00:22:52 down Jordy it's all right there's um
00:22:52 --> 00:22:54 there's a dog that he hates that its
00:22:54 --> 00:22:57 owner occasionally brings it near our
00:22:57 --> 00:23:00 property to take they know better
00:23:00 --> 00:23:03 yeah all right Jordy calm down good boy
00:23:03 --> 00:23:06 good boy good boy um okay so the Luna
00:23:06 --> 00:23:08 Regal is
00:23:08 --> 00:23:09 back to the moon from the sublime to the
00:23:10 --> 00:23:13 ridiculous or the other way around uh we
00:23:13 --> 00:23:15 Yes you're absolutely right that the the
00:23:15 --> 00:23:18 soil on the moon is such an interesting
00:23:18 --> 00:23:21 thing it's different from anything we
00:23:21 --> 00:23:23 have on Earth uh and that's because it
00:23:24 --> 00:23:27 has been formed not by wind and water
00:23:27 --> 00:23:29 erosion like the soil on Earth has but
00:23:29 --> 00:23:32 by um bombardment by these subatomic
00:23:32 --> 00:23:34 particles the wind of particles that
00:23:34 --> 00:23:36 constantly blows from the sun probably a
00:23:36 --> 00:23:38 few micrometeorites banging into the
00:23:38 --> 00:23:40 surface as well and so what we've got is
00:23:40 --> 00:23:43 a soil that is very very fine and very
00:23:43 --> 00:23:46 angular uh so it's got sharp edges all
00:23:46 --> 00:23:48 the way around it and exactly as you've
00:23:48 --> 00:23:49 said that's why it gets into all the
00:23:49 --> 00:23:52 nooks and cran crannies all the crevices
00:23:52 --> 00:23:55 the the basically the clothing of
00:23:55 --> 00:23:59 astronauts um there is one recorded case
00:23:59 --> 00:24:00 uh and you probably know more about this
00:24:00 --> 00:24:03 than I do Heidi one of the Apollo
00:24:03 --> 00:24:04 missions and I can't remember which one
00:24:04 --> 00:24:08 it was but so much dust was brought into
00:24:08 --> 00:24:11 the uh into the lunar module by one of
00:24:11 --> 00:24:14 the astronauts that uh it pervaded the
00:24:14 --> 00:24:16 whole return trip back to Earth and gave
00:24:16 --> 00:24:19 that person the first case of lunar hay
00:24:19 --> 00:24:21 fever because he was sneezing all the
00:24:21 --> 00:24:23 time because of this dust i can't
00:24:23 --> 00:24:24 remember who it was
00:24:24 --> 00:24:26 i I do remember hearing about this and I
00:24:26 --> 00:24:28 also can't remember who it was but yeah
00:24:28 --> 00:24:30 it could be quite the problem it's just
00:24:30 --> 00:24:33 this sticky fine mess
00:24:33 --> 00:24:37 so um NASA in their wisdom are looking
00:24:37 --> 00:24:40 at ways to mitigate the effects of that
00:24:40 --> 00:24:43 and um as part of the Blue Ghost mission
00:24:43 --> 00:24:46 that was a spacecraft that commercial
00:24:46 --> 00:24:48 spacecraft landed on the moon
00:24:48 --> 00:24:50 successfully uh I don't know a month ago
00:24:50 --> 00:24:53 I guess it's it's not very long ago um
00:24:53 --> 00:24:57 uh which was part of NASA's program for
00:24:57 --> 00:24:59 I think it's called the commercial lunar
00:24:59 --> 00:25:02 payloads program in other words getting
00:25:02 --> 00:25:05 um the commercial world to actually do
00:25:05 --> 00:25:07 some of the leg work in preparing for
00:25:08 --> 00:25:10 the Opimus uh flights to the moon later
00:25:10 --> 00:25:13 in the decade uh and one of the
00:25:13 --> 00:25:16 experiments carried on board Blue Ghost
00:25:16 --> 00:25:19 was indeed about how you can reduce the
00:25:19 --> 00:25:23 effects of this lunar dust uh it has a
00:25:23 --> 00:25:26 name it is called the EDS uh the
00:25:26 --> 00:25:30 electronamic dust shield and um
00:25:30 --> 00:25:34 basically it uh is a way of removing uh
00:25:34 --> 00:25:36 the the the contamination of dust and
00:25:36 --> 00:25:40 dirt from uh whatever surfaces you
00:25:40 --> 00:25:43 you've got on the moon probably uh it's
00:25:43 --> 00:25:45 more like spacecraft surfaces than
00:25:45 --> 00:25:47 clothing although this it might lend
00:25:47 --> 00:25:50 itself to that eventually uh and um it
00:25:50 --> 00:25:52 seems to have worked very very well
00:25:52 --> 00:25:56 there is uh a pair of images which are
00:25:56 --> 00:25:58 pretty easy to find on the web um I'm
00:25:58 --> 00:26:01 looking actually at the NASA uh uh
00:26:01 --> 00:26:03 website itself for the press release
00:26:03 --> 00:26:05 which is entitled NASA's dust shield
00:26:05 --> 00:26:08 successfully repels lunar regalith on
00:26:08 --> 00:26:11 moon uh and you can see a before and
00:26:11 --> 00:26:13 after with this uh with this device
00:26:13 --> 00:26:18 activated um I I suspect it works well
00:26:18 --> 00:26:21 it's called an electro electronamic uh
00:26:21 --> 00:26:25 dust shield uh but um that electronamic
00:26:25 --> 00:26:27 usually means moving electrons so
00:26:27 --> 00:26:30 there's a current flowing uh but um it's
00:26:30 --> 00:26:32 I suspect that the basic mechanism is
00:26:32 --> 00:26:35 electrostatic it's a repulsion of the of
00:26:35 --> 00:26:39 the you know the slightly charged uh
00:26:39 --> 00:26:41 soil particles that that exist on the
00:26:41 --> 00:26:43 moon they they are they are electrically
00:26:43 --> 00:26:45 charged so if you can give them an
00:26:45 --> 00:26:47 opposite charge they'll be repelled and
00:26:47 --> 00:26:48 that looks as though it's what's
00:26:48 --> 00:26:50 happening and it's been met with success
00:26:50 --> 00:26:53 so perhaps it's a step forward in
00:26:53 --> 00:26:55 cleaning up our voyages to the moon and
00:26:55 --> 00:26:56 not bringing back a whole lot of
00:26:56 --> 00:26:58 unwanted moon dust when you come back to
00:26:58 --> 00:27:01 Earth absolutely and I'm just thinking
00:27:01 --> 00:27:03 again of the implications for Earth
00:27:03 --> 00:27:04 because I think sometimes there's a
00:27:04 --> 00:27:06 little bit of like I said earlier
00:27:06 --> 00:27:07 there's a little bit of a disconnect you
00:27:07 --> 00:27:10 know thinking space and how it's not
00:27:10 --> 00:27:12 related to Earth and it's so so related
00:27:12 --> 00:27:14 to everything we do here on Earth i mean
00:27:14 --> 00:27:17 GPS NASA gave us GPS nasa gave us water
00:27:17 --> 00:27:20 purification nasa gave us
00:27:20 --> 00:27:23 um Oh man i'm totally mindbling the big
00:27:23 --> 00:27:25 machine that you go into that scans you
00:27:25 --> 00:27:27 if you go to the hospital yeah an MRI
00:27:27 --> 00:27:29 mri machine yes that should be the one
00:27:29 --> 00:27:31 that I know but yeah I mean so much of
00:27:31 --> 00:27:33 this has come from space science and I'm
00:27:33 --> 00:27:34 thinking of something that would make my
00:27:34 --> 00:27:37 life easier even just on the simplest
00:27:37 --> 00:27:40 level if the surfaces in my house my
00:27:40 --> 00:27:43 tables and everything repelled dust and
00:27:43 --> 00:27:45 I don't know if we are just that much
00:27:45 --> 00:27:48 closer to inventing dust repelling
00:27:48 --> 00:27:50 surfaces and that just makes everybody's
00:27:50 --> 00:27:53 life that much easier that much safer
00:27:53 --> 00:27:54 because then you're not using cleaning
00:27:54 --> 00:27:56 agents and chemicals to clean your house
00:27:56 --> 00:27:59 you just have a surface that just repels
00:27:59 --> 00:28:00 that dust automatically and that just
00:28:00 --> 00:28:02 could that could even have really good
00:28:02 --> 00:28:04 implications in sterile environments
00:28:04 --> 00:28:07 like computer um places where they're
00:28:07 --> 00:28:09 building computer or hospital settings
00:28:09 --> 00:28:12 so this is actually very very exciting
00:28:12 --> 00:28:14 that they're doing this and the article
00:28:14 --> 00:28:16 is quite short it's just a blur but the
00:28:16 --> 00:28:19 implications of this you know we don't
00:28:19 --> 00:28:21 know how this is going to improve life
00:28:21 --> 00:28:23 down the road exactly that's right it's
00:28:23 --> 00:28:27 um you know the the sky Well the sky's
00:28:27 --> 00:28:29 is the limit really isn't it in terms of
00:28:29 --> 00:28:33 what we can do with space technology um
00:28:33 --> 00:28:35 technology perfected for space i I do
00:28:35 --> 00:28:37 worry you know if you if you press a
00:28:38 --> 00:28:39 button and all the dust leaps off all
00:28:39 --> 00:28:41 the surfaces in your house you might
00:28:41 --> 00:28:44 need an extractor fan to take them away
00:28:44 --> 00:28:45 so they don't wind up somewhere where
00:28:45 --> 00:28:49 you don't want them yes
00:28:49 --> 00:28:53 the next segue
00:28:53 --> 00:28:55 okay we checked all four systems and
00:28:55 --> 00:28:58 keying with the space nets speaking of
00:28:58 --> 00:29:01 the sky being the limit our last article
00:29:02 --> 00:29:06 that we're looking at there was a
00:29:06 --> 00:29:10 um big nebula explosion and there's a
00:29:10 --> 00:29:15 glow left over from it uh the title is a
00:29:15 --> 00:29:17 nebula's x-ray glow may come from a
00:29:17 --> 00:29:21 destroyed giant planet
00:29:21 --> 00:29:23 and that's quite dramatic
00:29:23 --> 00:29:26 but we are excited about these images
00:29:26 --> 00:29:30 because it tells us about history
00:29:30 --> 00:29:33 that's right um and in fact everything
00:29:33 --> 00:29:35 in the universe tells you about history
00:29:35 --> 00:29:36 which is great because you're always
00:29:36 --> 00:29:39 looking back in time uh we're we're
00:29:39 --> 00:29:41 looking back in this case I think it's
00:29:41 --> 00:29:42 about
00:29:42 --> 00:29:46 670 650 light years it's a very very
00:29:46 --> 00:29:50 well-known object uh called the Helix
00:29:50 --> 00:29:53 Nebula um and in fact first captured in
00:29:53 --> 00:29:56 full color by my colleague and friend
00:29:56 --> 00:29:59 David Merlin who um was the person who
00:29:59 --> 00:30:01 essentially developed a technique in the
00:30:01 --> 00:30:04 1970s and 80s uh to put true color into
00:30:04 --> 00:30:08 celestial images by taking three sets of
00:30:08 --> 00:30:10 photographic plates as we used in those
00:30:10 --> 00:30:13 days through red green and blue filters
00:30:13 --> 00:30:16 um and he he became very well known for
00:30:16 --> 00:30:18 that he was totally fastidious and still
00:30:18 --> 00:30:20 is actually about getting the color
00:30:20 --> 00:30:22 balance right so that what we saw in
00:30:22 --> 00:30:25 these images was what uh what we would
00:30:25 --> 00:30:27 be able to see if our eyes were millions
00:30:27 --> 00:30:29 of times more sensitive now segue from
00:30:30 --> 00:30:33 that to the present time when that
00:30:33 --> 00:30:35 lovely color image uh of the Helix
00:30:35 --> 00:30:39 Nebula became very very famous uh um
00:30:39 --> 00:30:41 that was what we see in visible light
00:30:41 --> 00:30:44 but it's now been observed at many other
00:30:44 --> 00:30:47 wavelengths of light as well um and
00:30:47 --> 00:30:51 ranging from uh infrared to X-rays in
00:30:51 --> 00:30:53 fact put it that way around or X-rays to
00:30:53 --> 00:30:56 infrared um and it's the X-ray radiation
00:30:56 --> 00:30:58 that is the most exciting and it's the
00:30:58 --> 00:31:01 reason why we've got this story so the
00:31:01 --> 00:31:02 the Helix Nebula just to give the
00:31:02 --> 00:31:04 backstory is what we call a planetary
00:31:04 --> 00:31:06 nebula uh and and it's nothing to do
00:31:06 --> 00:31:09 with planets except in the way that
00:31:09 --> 00:31:11 we'll come to in a minute uh it was
00:31:11 --> 00:31:13 called that by William
00:31:13 --> 00:31:16 Herschel an astronomer back in the early
00:31:16 --> 00:31:19 19th century who saw these things uh
00:31:19 --> 00:31:21 which were clearly not planets because
00:31:21 --> 00:31:24 they were in the deep sky they they were
00:31:24 --> 00:31:26 not they were moving with the stars
00:31:26 --> 00:31:28 rather than with with planets so they
00:31:28 --> 00:31:30 weren't in the solar system but they had
00:31:30 --> 00:31:32 a slightly planetary appearance they
00:31:32 --> 00:31:34 looked circular uh so he called them
00:31:34 --> 00:31:37 planetary nebula and what we discovered
00:31:37 --> 00:31:40 in the early 20th century is that what
00:31:40 --> 00:31:42 we're seeing there is the outer layers
00:31:42 --> 00:31:46 of a star which has reached old age and
00:31:46 --> 00:31:49 u is not massive enough to explode like
00:31:49 --> 00:31:51 a supernova
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53 an exploding star that detonates and
00:31:53 --> 00:31:56 blows itself to pieces you need to be
00:31:56 --> 00:31:57 more than about three or four times the
00:31:57 --> 00:32:00 mass of the sun to do that um in fact 10
00:32:00 --> 00:32:03 times is probably a better bet uh the
00:32:03 --> 00:32:05 star like the sun gets to the end of its
00:32:06 --> 00:32:08 life and basically the instabilities
00:32:08 --> 00:32:10 that are caused by the fact that it's
00:32:10 --> 00:32:12 used up most of its hydrogen fuel it
00:32:12 --> 00:32:14 causes the outer atmosphere to to
00:32:14 --> 00:32:18 basically to be shed gently uh and um
00:32:18 --> 00:32:22 that produces a a cloud of gas often
00:32:22 --> 00:32:24 spherical in form sometimes they're
00:32:24 --> 00:32:26 hourglass shaped they've got all kinds
00:32:26 --> 00:32:29 of different shapes but the Helix Nebula
00:32:29 --> 00:32:30 in the southern hemisphere sky is the
00:32:30 --> 00:32:34 classic example of uh of a of a a
00:32:34 --> 00:32:36 planetary nebula a star at the end of
00:32:36 --> 00:32:37 its life it shed its outer layers
00:32:38 --> 00:32:40 they're glowing because what's left of
00:32:40 --> 00:32:42 the star is a remnant called a white
00:32:42 --> 00:32:46 dwarf uh which is uh a a an object the
00:32:46 --> 00:32:48 size of our planet size of the earth but
00:32:48 --> 00:32:50 with the mass of a star so it's very
00:32:50 --> 00:32:52 very dense um now white dwarfs are
00:32:52 --> 00:32:55 interesting creatures in their own right
00:32:55 --> 00:32:58 but the Helix Nebula has one that is
00:32:58 --> 00:33:01 even more interesting than normal
00:33:01 --> 00:33:05 because it radiates copiously in X-rays
00:33:05 --> 00:33:07 and X-rays we have to get above the
00:33:07 --> 00:33:09 Earth's atmosphere to detect because the
00:33:09 --> 00:33:11 atmosphere fortunately absorbs X-rays
00:33:12 --> 00:33:14 very um very effectively uh but there
00:33:14 --> 00:33:17 have been a number of space satellites
00:33:17 --> 00:33:19 uh mostly satellites around the earth
00:33:19 --> 00:33:21 spacecraft that have been essentially
00:33:22 --> 00:33:26 used to uh survey the the sky in X-ray
00:33:26 --> 00:33:29 emission uh and the Helix Nebula of
00:33:29 --> 00:33:31 course has been one of the things that
00:33:31 --> 00:33:34 uh uh have been looked at with X-rays
00:33:34 --> 00:33:36 with a whole series of different
00:33:36 --> 00:33:39 satellites um through the you know
00:33:39 --> 00:33:42 through the ages uh it it was
00:33:42 --> 00:33:46 um actually uh first detected by back in
00:33:46 --> 00:33:49 the early 1980s by NASA's Einstein
00:33:49 --> 00:33:50 Observatory which is an an X-ray
00:33:51 --> 00:33:53 satellite and there was another one
00:33:53 --> 00:33:55 called Rossat i guess it comes from
00:33:55 --> 00:33:59 Rentgun the German word for X-rays after
00:33:59 --> 00:34:02 Professor Rengun who discovered them um
00:34:02 --> 00:34:05 Rosat in the 19 early 1990s both of
00:34:05 --> 00:34:09 those spacecraft detected X-rays from uh
00:34:09 --> 00:34:11 from the Helix Nebula which weren't
00:34:11 --> 00:34:14 really understood uh now those have been
00:34:14 --> 00:34:17 followed up um couple of decades later
00:34:17 --> 00:34:20 NASA's Chandra X-ray Observatory in 1999
00:34:20 --> 00:34:22 and XMM Newton which is a European Space
00:34:22 --> 00:34:26 Agency spacecraft in 2002 have recorded
00:34:26 --> 00:34:28 these copious quantities of X-rays
00:34:28 --> 00:34:31 coming from the Helix Nebula what is it
00:34:31 --> 00:34:33 all about where do they come from how do
00:34:33 --> 00:34:35 you get something that shouldn't be
00:34:35 --> 00:34:37 producing X-rays but has you know sort
00:34:37 --> 00:34:41 of 30 years uh well 20 years anyway of
00:34:41 --> 00:34:44 of e of strong X-ray emission and so the
00:34:44 --> 00:34:46 people who think deeply about these
00:34:46 --> 00:34:48 things the theoretical astronomers and
00:34:48 --> 00:34:50 some of these uh astronomers in this
00:34:50 --> 00:34:54 case uh some are in uh the United States
00:34:54 --> 00:34:58 but some are also in Mexico um they they
00:34:58 --> 00:35:01 have deduced that what's happening is
00:35:01 --> 00:35:05 probably a Jupiter sized planet uh maybe
00:35:05 --> 00:35:09 a bit more than Jupiter uh was uh
00:35:09 --> 00:35:12 orbiting the star as it reached the end
00:35:12 --> 00:35:15 of its life carried on orbiting the
00:35:15 --> 00:35:17 white dwarf but because of the forces
00:35:17 --> 00:35:19 involved with the collapse of the star
00:35:19 --> 00:35:21 to a white dwarf at the end of its life
00:35:22 --> 00:35:23 uh that the planet was shredded
00:35:23 --> 00:35:26 basically and formed a ring of disc
00:35:26 --> 00:35:30 sorry a disc of material not a ring of
00:35:30 --> 00:35:32 disc that doesn't make sense a disc of
00:35:32 --> 00:35:35 material around the the around the white
00:35:35 --> 00:35:39 dwarf which is accelerated to very very
00:35:39 --> 00:35:40 high velocities the gravitational field
00:35:40 --> 00:35:42 of a white dwarf is a bit like a black
00:35:42 --> 00:35:45 hole not quite as extreme but very
00:35:45 --> 00:35:46 strong and so you got So this is the
00:35:46 --> 00:35:49 ghost of a planet exactly yes the debris
00:35:49 --> 00:35:51 of a planet planetary ghost i love the
00:35:51 --> 00:35:55 term um it's uh but it it's all it's you
00:35:55 --> 00:35:58 know it's basically it's dismembered
00:35:58 --> 00:36:00 remains are whizzing around this white
00:36:00 --> 00:36:04 dwarf at high orbital velocity and that
00:36:04 --> 00:36:08 creates X-rays because of the heating
00:36:08 --> 00:36:10 effect of this turbulence that is in the
00:36:10 --> 00:36:13 dis of material and that's the theory at
00:36:13 --> 00:36:14 the moment and it's the best one that
00:36:14 --> 00:36:17 we've got as to why the Helix Nebula is
00:36:17 --> 00:36:20 so copiously emitting X-rays that it's
00:36:20 --> 00:36:23 got an unfortunate planet that didn't
00:36:23 --> 00:36:26 survive the collapse uh and is radiating
00:36:26 --> 00:36:29 violently in the X-ray wavelengths so
00:36:29 --> 00:36:32 rather intriguing story let me see if I
00:36:32 --> 00:36:34 understand this correctly so I'm looking
00:36:34 --> 00:36:37 at this image and it's got kind of a red
00:36:37 --> 00:36:39 dot in the middle for those listening if
00:36:39 --> 00:36:41 you don't see the image you guys can
00:36:41 --> 00:36:43 look up the Helix Nebula it's a very
00:36:43 --> 00:36:45 famous photo and you'll see what I'm
00:36:45 --> 00:36:47 describing it almost looks like a kind
00:36:47 --> 00:36:49 of like an eye so it's got this red like
00:36:49 --> 00:36:51 the Terminator it's got this red dot in
00:36:51 --> 00:36:53 the middle and then it almost looks like
00:36:53 --> 00:36:55 an iris and then it keeps expanding out
00:36:55 --> 00:36:57 it actually does look exactly like an
00:36:57 --> 00:37:00 eye now that I look at it but so the
00:37:00 --> 00:37:02 planet got sucked into the red which is
00:37:02 --> 00:37:05 the dwarf and then spun apart like a
00:37:05 --> 00:37:08 centuge and cuz it looks like it
00:37:08 --> 00:37:10 exploded from inside out but what's
00:37:10 --> 00:37:12 happening is it's spinning apart and
00:37:12 --> 00:37:15 that's why it's surrounding this red and
00:37:15 --> 00:37:17 it's spinning and so the gravity is like
00:37:17 --> 00:37:19 the debris is coming apart from the
00:37:19 --> 00:37:23 center rather than getting pulled into
00:37:23 --> 00:37:24 the center is that what I'm am I
00:37:24 --> 00:37:25 understanding this correctly that's
00:37:26 --> 00:37:30 right yes that's right so so the the the
00:37:30 --> 00:37:33 X- radiation is um it you know it's it's
00:37:34 --> 00:37:36 sort of pervading the whole of the of
00:37:36 --> 00:37:38 the nebula you've got X-rays coming from
00:37:38 --> 00:37:41 every part of it uh or or appearing to
00:37:41 --> 00:37:44 but but they're being emitted by this
00:37:44 --> 00:37:47 object which is actually within it's not
00:37:47 --> 00:37:49 visible the disc itself is not visible
00:37:49 --> 00:37:52 the dis of material that was this planet
00:37:52 --> 00:37:55 uh that's too near the white dwarf the
00:37:55 --> 00:37:58 white dwarf itself uh is is visible in
00:37:58 --> 00:38:00 visible in optical images visible light
00:38:00 --> 00:38:03 images but not in the X-ray image so uh
00:38:03 --> 00:38:06 it's a matter of inference along the
00:38:06 --> 00:38:08 lines that you've just described Heidi
00:38:08 --> 00:38:10 so maybe you already explained this
00:38:10 --> 00:38:12 because this doesn't make sense to me
00:38:12 --> 00:38:14 why so if the gravity is strong enough
00:38:14 --> 00:38:17 to be keeping these bits and parts
00:38:17 --> 00:38:19 within its gravity why are why is it
00:38:20 --> 00:38:22 still spreading out
00:38:22 --> 00:38:26 so the the um the the the the gaseous
00:38:26 --> 00:38:30 envelope of the star itself
00:38:30 --> 00:38:34 uh is that was basically emitted over
00:38:34 --> 00:38:37 many millions probably tens of millions
00:38:37 --> 00:38:39 hundreds of millions of years before the
00:38:40 --> 00:38:42 star collapsed into a white dwarf so
00:38:42 --> 00:38:45 that's far enough away that um it's not
00:38:45 --> 00:38:48 feeling that intense gravity in the you
00:38:48 --> 00:38:50 know the the the region near to the
00:38:50 --> 00:38:51 white dwarf itself
00:38:52 --> 00:38:54 um it's it's basically drifting off uh
00:38:54 --> 00:38:57 as uh you know the distances are
00:38:57 --> 00:38:59 measured in light years they're not
00:38:59 --> 00:39:00 they're not measured in millions of
00:39:00 --> 00:39:02 kilometers they're very very large
00:39:02 --> 00:39:05 distances so um yes it's a great
00:39:05 --> 00:39:07 question though um that so so it's all
00:39:08 --> 00:39:09 the stuff that is really within the
00:39:09 --> 00:39:11 immediate vicinity of the white dwarf
00:39:11 --> 00:39:14 that's feeling that acceleration and and
00:39:14 --> 00:39:17 undergoing that intense orbital uh
00:39:17 --> 00:39:20 motion around the white dwarf
00:39:20 --> 00:39:23 is this your favorite nebula um uh it it
00:39:23 --> 00:39:25 probably is actually that's a really
00:39:25 --> 00:39:27 good question too because I've never
00:39:27 --> 00:39:29 sort of thought about that there is a
00:39:29 --> 00:39:30 well-known one in the northern sky which
00:39:30 --> 00:39:32 will be visible from Houston called the
00:39:32 --> 00:39:36 Ring Nebula uh but the Helix Nebula I
00:39:36 --> 00:39:37 think is a little bit more glamorous
00:39:38 --> 00:39:39 because it's got a bit more structure to
00:39:39 --> 00:39:41 it it's it's got this it's called the
00:39:41 --> 00:39:43 Helix Nebula because it's it looks a bit
00:39:44 --> 00:39:47 like a a sort of unwound spring um and
00:39:47 --> 00:39:48 you can see you're probably having a
00:39:48 --> 00:39:50 look at the Ring Nebula as we speak
00:39:50 --> 00:39:52 looking it up oh yeah it's absolutely
00:39:52 --> 00:39:55 beautiful that's just stunning
00:39:55 --> 00:39:58 so I think maybe this will be a topic
00:39:58 --> 00:40:02 for um a Q&A or another session but I
00:40:02 --> 00:40:04 definitely want to understand more of
00:40:04 --> 00:40:07 the um the the technology that you said
00:40:07 --> 00:40:09 your friend developed his name was also
00:40:09 --> 00:40:12 Fred uh no david actually is Fred his
00:40:12 --> 00:40:15 middle name is Frederick frederick okay
00:40:15 --> 00:40:19 david david Mail yeah so he um just
00:40:19 --> 00:40:20 briefly
00:40:20 --> 00:40:24 uh when the Anglo Australian telescope
00:40:24 --> 00:40:26 it's the largest visible light telescope
00:40:26 --> 00:40:31 on Australian soil uh with a 3.9 m 156
00:40:31 --> 00:40:34 in mirror um and he and I both worked
00:40:34 --> 00:40:36 there i was the astronomer in charge for
00:40:36 --> 00:40:40 20 years in fact but uh before that he
00:40:40 --> 00:40:42 in fact when the telescope was brand new
00:40:42 --> 00:40:45 he was taken on board on the stuff he he
00:40:45 --> 00:40:47 speaks a lot like me because he comes
00:40:47 --> 00:40:49 from the north of England uh went to
00:40:49 --> 00:40:52 Australia and perfected this technique
00:40:52 --> 00:40:55 in those days um imaging of astronomical
00:40:55 --> 00:40:56 objects was done with photographic
00:40:56 --> 00:40:58 plates and I'm talking about 1975 that's
00:40:58 --> 00:41:02 when he went to Australia um and um
00:41:02 --> 00:41:05 apart from a few experiments with color
00:41:05 --> 00:41:08 emulsions normal color film which really
00:41:08 --> 00:41:10 didn't work well for astronomical
00:41:10 --> 00:41:13 objects because color film is designed
00:41:13 --> 00:41:15 for a very short exposure you know
00:41:15 --> 00:41:17 you're in a camera you press a button
00:41:17 --> 00:41:19 shutter opens and closes again in a 50th
00:41:19 --> 00:41:22 of a second and you record the image uh
00:41:22 --> 00:41:25 astronomers spend hours exposing their
00:41:25 --> 00:41:27 photographic plates as we did in those
00:41:27 --> 00:41:31 days and the the whole you know optical
00:41:31 --> 00:41:33 chemical process that makes color
00:41:33 --> 00:41:35 photography just didn't work and so he
00:41:35 --> 00:41:38 designed this technique it actually goes
00:41:38 --> 00:41:41 back a couple of hundred years um to you
00:41:41 --> 00:41:43 know way people thought you can perhaps
00:41:43 --> 00:41:45 replicate with the red green and blue
00:41:45 --> 00:41:47 you can replicate a color image and it's
00:41:47 --> 00:41:50 true you can but it took David's skills
00:41:50 --> 00:41:53 and hard work to perfect that and the
00:41:53 --> 00:41:55 result was uh twofold it made the
00:41:55 --> 00:41:58 telescope very famous because his images
00:41:58 --> 00:42:01 found their way onto the front covers of
00:42:01 --> 00:42:04 magazines and album covers and books uh
00:42:04 --> 00:42:06 they were all over the world in the 19
00:42:06 --> 00:42:09 uh 80s early 1980s it made the telescope
00:42:09 --> 00:42:11 famous and it made him very famous as
00:42:11 --> 00:42:14 well uh and he still um is interested in
00:42:14 --> 00:42:17 this he's now retired he uh doesn't
00:42:17 --> 00:42:19 really do any frontline photography
00:42:19 --> 00:42:23 anymore but occasionally uh we end up in
00:42:23 --> 00:42:25 involved in scientific discussions about
00:42:25 --> 00:42:27 all kinds of things so he's still very
00:42:27 --> 00:42:30 active well it's it's I mean I think
00:42:30 --> 00:42:32 nebulas I think are probably one of the
00:42:32 --> 00:42:34 most beautiful beautiful things in space
00:42:34 --> 00:42:36 and these images are just breathtaking
00:42:36 --> 00:42:38 and to think of the it's it's almost
00:42:38 --> 00:42:40 impossible to comprehend the scale of a
00:42:40 --> 00:42:42 nebula because we just see them on our
00:42:42 --> 00:42:44 desktop as a beautiful picture but to
00:42:44 --> 00:42:45 think of the size and the magnitude is
00:42:45 --> 00:42:48 quite amazing and the contributions of
00:42:48 --> 00:42:51 the field are really quite incredible
00:42:51 --> 00:42:54 it's uh it's it's quite astonishing to
00:42:54 --> 00:42:56 think of the um conspiracy theorists and
00:42:56 --> 00:42:58 how they think that these are just you
00:42:58 --> 00:43:00 know computerenerated images and they're
00:43:00 --> 00:43:02 like "Oh the scientists are just
00:43:02 --> 00:43:03 painting the photos to make them look
00:43:03 --> 00:43:05 like how they want." And then you're
00:43:05 --> 00:43:06 telling us stories of how how your
00:43:06 --> 00:43:08 friend and you put 20 years into just
00:43:08 --> 00:43:12 developing these technologies yeah yeah
00:43:12 --> 00:43:13 that's
00:43:13 --> 00:43:16 right um look conspiracy theorists are
00:43:16 --> 00:43:19 another breed uh we could talk endlessly
00:43:19 --> 00:43:24 about them but um uh yes uh you know the
00:43:24 --> 00:43:27 the the the work that David did was
00:43:27 --> 00:43:29 really very rigorous to try and make
00:43:29 --> 00:43:31 sure that what we were seeing was what
00:43:31 --> 00:43:33 we would see if our eyes were more
00:43:33 --> 00:43:35 sensitive uh the the the the downside of
00:43:35 --> 00:43:38 that Heidi is that um whenever David
00:43:38 --> 00:43:40 went anywhere to give give a talk and he
00:43:40 --> 00:43:44 did that all the time um especially in
00:43:44 --> 00:43:47 the digital era as things moved on he
00:43:47 --> 00:43:49 got very upset if the color balance on
00:43:49 --> 00:43:53 the projector was not to his liking um
00:43:53 --> 00:43:55 and indeed he started all his talks and
00:43:55 --> 00:43:58 I do now too with a with a basically a
00:43:58 --> 00:44:00 color chart you know a color diagram and
00:44:00 --> 00:44:02 if it wasn't to his liking he would
00:44:02 --> 00:44:04 start tinkering with a projector to try
00:44:04 --> 00:44:07 and make it so and once in a while he
00:44:07 --> 00:44:09 would refuse to give the talk because it
00:44:09 --> 00:44:11 would not show his pictures in the true
00:44:11 --> 00:44:12 colors that he'd worked so hard to
00:44:12 --> 00:44:14 create
00:44:14 --> 00:44:17 talk about a perfectionist and it's
00:44:17 --> 00:44:19 things like that you really It just
00:44:19 --> 00:44:21 makes the conspiracy theorist sound just
00:44:21 --> 00:44:24 that much more silly they think they
00:44:24 --> 00:44:25 have something figured out because they
00:44:25 --> 00:44:29 watched a YouTube video yes there you go
00:44:29 --> 00:44:32 not to end on a negative note with the
00:44:32 --> 00:44:34 conspiracy theorists and we'll we'll
00:44:34 --> 00:44:35 take it as we're ending on a positive
00:44:35 --> 00:44:37 talking about these beautiful beautiful
00:44:37 --> 00:44:39 nebulas and these incredible
00:44:39 --> 00:44:42 contributions to the field and I just
00:44:42 --> 00:44:44 want to I don't know inspire and
00:44:44 --> 00:44:47 encourage listeners to if you're a space
00:44:47 --> 00:44:50 enthusiast to keep considering all these
00:44:50 --> 00:44:52 possibilities and if you are someone who
00:44:52 --> 00:44:55 works in the field you never know what
00:44:55 --> 00:44:57 you know you're going to be producing 20
00:44:57 --> 00:44:59 years from now and what your work is
00:44:59 --> 00:45:02 going to do and contribute to humanity
00:45:02 --> 00:45:04 and what kind of neuroticism you'll
00:45:04 --> 00:45:06 develop if you'll never be able to look
00:45:06 --> 00:45:08 at a projector the same way or if you're
00:45:08 --> 00:45:10 just going to become the person who is
00:45:10 --> 00:45:12 so obsessed with doing this one thing
00:45:12 --> 00:45:14 because you've put 20 30 40 years into
00:45:14 --> 00:45:17 studying something so incredibly niche
00:45:17 --> 00:45:20 um Fred do you have anything else you
00:45:20 --> 00:45:24 want to add uh not to that story uh just
00:45:24 --> 00:45:26 to say this has been a wonderful uh
00:45:26 --> 00:45:30 session i think it's uh episode 509 that
00:45:30 --> 00:45:32 we've just done
00:45:32 --> 00:45:34 wow thanks and it's been great talking
00:45:34 --> 00:45:36 to you Heidi and um I look forward to
00:45:36 --> 00:45:39 our next chat excellent again thank you
00:45:39 --> 00:45:41 so much for having me and you have been
00:45:41 --> 00:45:44 listening to Space Nuts space Nuts
00:45:44 --> 00:45:46 you've been listening to the Space Nuts
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