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Exploring the Outer Solar System: New Dwarf Planets, Iapetus Mysteries, and Primordial Black Holes
In this captivating episode of Space Nuts, host Andrew Dunkley and the ever-knowledgeable Professor Fred Watson delve into the latest astronomical discoveries and theories that are reshaping our understanding of the cosmos. From the potential identification of a new dwarf planet to the intriguing features of Saturn's moon Iapetus and the enigmatic nature of primordial black holes, this episode is packed with cosmic insights.
Episode Highlights:
- Potential New Dwarf Planet: Andrew and Fred Watson discuss the discovery of a new Trans-Neptunian object that could challenge the existence of Planet Nine. With its elongated orbit and significant distance from the Sun, this potential dwarf planet offers fresh perspectives on our solar system's architecture.
- The Peculiar Moon Iapetus: The conversation shifts to Iapetus, a unique moon of Saturn known for its stark contrast in surface coloration and mysterious equatorial ridge. Andrew and Fred Watson explore the various theories regarding its formation and the renewed interest it has garnered in recent discussions.
- Primordial Black Holes and Dark Matter: The episode wraps up with a deep dive into the theoretical research surrounding primordial black holes and their potential role in explaining dark matter. Fred shares insights from recent studies suggesting these ancient black holes might be more stable than previously thought, reigniting the debate on their contribution to the universe's missing mass.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
(00:00) Welcome to Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley and Fred Watson Watson
(01:20) Discussion on the potential new dwarf planet in the solar system
(15:00) Exploring the mysteries of Saturn's moon Iapetus
(25:30) Theoretical research on primordial black holes and dark matter
For commercial-free versions of Space Nuts, join us on Patreon, Supercast, Apple Podcasts, or become a supporter here: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support (https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss) .
Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/27386266?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:01 Hi there. Thanks for joining us. Andrew
00:00:01 --> 00:00:05 Dunley here. Uh this is Space Nuts where
00:00:05 --> 00:00:07 we talk astronomy and space science.
00:00:07 --> 00:00:10 Thanks for joining us. Coming up on this
00:00:10 --> 00:00:12 episode. Oh, lots to talk about and
00:00:12 --> 00:00:14 really interesting stuff. For a change?
00:00:14 --> 00:00:18 No. As usual. Uh and and this one um I I
00:00:18 --> 00:00:20 saw and thought, gee, we got to talk
00:00:20 --> 00:00:22 about this because we're always looking
00:00:22 --> 00:00:24 for something in the outer rim of the
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 solar system. And now we may have found
00:00:27 --> 00:00:29 something. And it's not planet 9. In
00:00:29 --> 00:00:32 fact, it's possibly a new dwarf planet,
00:00:32 --> 00:00:35 which could mean there is no planet 9.
00:00:35 --> 00:00:38 Interesting. Uh there's a peculiar moon
00:00:38 --> 00:00:41 um orbiting Saturn known as Yapotus, and
00:00:41 --> 00:00:44 it's starting to get attention again.
00:00:44 --> 00:00:48 We'll tell you why. And primordial black
00:00:48 --> 00:00:51 holes. Yep. And the fact that they might
00:00:51 --> 00:00:54 be today's dark matter. Is that a matter
00:00:54 --> 00:00:56 we should discuss? Damn right it is. And
00:00:56 --> 00:00:59 we'll know it.
00:00:59 --> 00:01:02 Do it right now on Space Nuts. 15
00:01:02 --> 00:01:06 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9g
00:01:06 --> 00:01:10 Ignition sequence start. Space nuts. 5 4
00:01:10 --> 00:01:15 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1 Space Nuts.
00:01:15 --> 00:01:18 Astronauts report. It feels good. And
00:01:18 --> 00:01:21 despite his premature announceation, we
00:01:22 --> 00:01:23 actually welcome Professor Fred Walton
00:01:23 --> 00:01:25 at large. Hello, Fred. Thank you for
00:01:25 --> 00:01:27 that. Yes, I do apologize for being
00:01:27 --> 00:01:30 there before I'm there. Um, forgetting
00:01:30 --> 00:01:32 that I have to be formally introduced
00:01:32 --> 00:01:37 before I more good. Yes. Yes. Before
00:01:37 --> 00:01:38 that's how I used to run my radio show.
00:01:38 --> 00:01:40 I didn't care what happened. If some if
00:01:40 --> 00:01:41 someone walked in though, it was part of
00:01:42 --> 00:01:43 the show.
00:01:43 --> 00:01:45 I didn't, you know, I never cared about
00:01:45 --> 00:01:48 standing on ceremony or or, you know,
00:01:48 --> 00:01:51 sticking to the rules of radio. What
00:01:51 --> 00:01:53 rules? I mean, it's just people talking,
00:01:53 --> 00:01:55 isn't it? and playing music and enjoying
00:01:55 --> 00:01:59 themselves. I thought that's how I ran.
00:01:59 --> 00:02:02 Even when I worked with I was I was
00:02:02 --> 00:02:04 like, "Oh, that's right. I've been
00:02:04 --> 00:02:06 dropped for it a few times, but uh
00:02:06 --> 00:02:07 eventually they saw they saw the light
00:02:08 --> 00:02:10 and started going, "Hang on a minute."
00:02:10 --> 00:02:12 Listening to this bloke, we might we
00:02:12 --> 00:02:15 might be on to something. Uh anyway, uh
00:02:15 --> 00:02:17 they eventually brought in an expert to
00:02:17 --> 00:02:19 teach us how to be human beings on the
00:02:19 --> 00:02:23 radio. Really? Yeah, they did. He did.
00:02:23 --> 00:02:25 And when she when she talked to me, she
00:02:25 --> 00:02:28 said, "Don't change a thing." Which I
00:02:28 --> 00:02:30 really a great endorsement after being
00:02:30 --> 00:02:33 told to shut up for several years. No.
00:02:33 --> 00:02:35 Well done. That's good. Uh now, before
00:02:35 --> 00:02:38 we get started, um how's the weather
00:02:38 --> 00:02:40 down in Sydney? Because you've been
00:02:40 --> 00:02:42 copying us spanking with the rain. We
00:02:42 --> 00:02:45 did. Yes. Uh one day last week, uh just
00:02:45 --> 00:02:49 overnight we had 97 mm or um getting on
00:02:49 --> 00:02:52 for five. Well, four inches, isn't it in
00:02:52 --> 00:02:54 the measure? Yeah, that's right. Four
00:02:54 --> 00:02:56 inches. Uh that was just one night and
00:02:56 --> 00:02:57 altogether we probably had something
00:02:57 --> 00:03:01 like 150 over that wet period. Yeah. Uh
00:03:01 --> 00:03:03 so it was very wet. Uh very miserable,
00:03:03 --> 00:03:06 very soggy. Uh fortunately, everything
00:03:06 --> 00:03:09 seemed to hold up. Our downstairs granny
00:03:09 --> 00:03:10 flat, which used to flood when it
00:03:10 --> 00:03:12 rained, but we had a lot of work done
00:03:12 --> 00:03:14 last year. That's um that was in good
00:03:14 --> 00:03:17 shape.
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19 Everything seemed to be all right. Yeah.
00:03:19 --> 00:03:21 I shouldn't tell you that. Right now, as
00:03:21 --> 00:03:25 we record, there's a big rainband headed
00:03:25 --> 00:03:27 your way. Yes, there is. That's right.
00:03:27 --> 00:03:30 We um we already It's easing off now. We
00:03:30 --> 00:03:32 had rain all day, but I'm looking out
00:03:32 --> 00:03:36 now and it stopped raining. The uh the
00:03:36 --> 00:03:37 sky is actually thinning. It's still
00:03:37 --> 00:03:40 quite gray, but it's moving that way,
00:03:40 --> 00:03:43 which is towards you. Me, it is. We're
00:03:43 --> 00:03:46 expecting that uh later this afternoon.
00:03:46 --> 00:03:48 It sort of started off quite bright this
00:03:48 --> 00:03:50 morning, but it is definitely looking a
00:03:50 --> 00:03:54 bit grayer now. So, I I have some news.
00:03:54 --> 00:04:00 At 2:37 a.m. Saturday, oh, our bedroom
00:04:00 --> 00:04:04 door rattled. Okay. And I my first
00:04:04 --> 00:04:07 thought was that was an earth tremor.
00:04:07 --> 00:04:11 And guess what? It was it was a 5 Well,
00:04:11 --> 00:04:13 they keep varying it, but at the time it
00:04:13 --> 00:04:17 was a 5.3 Mhm. earthquake uh centered
00:04:17 --> 00:04:20 around uh north of Ningan. Yeah. Which
00:04:20 --> 00:04:23 uh is Ningan's 160 kilometers west of us
00:04:23 --> 00:04:25 and the earthquake was north of them by
00:04:25 --> 00:04:26 about
00:04:26 --> 00:04:29 98ks. So it was a bit further than 160
00:04:29 --> 00:04:34 km from us. And um yeah, it shook cuz
00:04:34 --> 00:04:36 our door doesn't quite latch perfectly.
00:04:36 --> 00:04:38 It doesn't hold tight. So it's always a
00:04:38 --> 00:04:39 bit loose. So when the air conditioning
00:04:39 --> 00:04:42 comes on, it usually goes thump. They
00:04:42 --> 00:04:44 said it did more than thump. on Saturday
00:04:44 --> 00:04:45 morning. I
00:04:45 --> 00:04:47 went and I woke up went, "Oh,
00:04:47 --> 00:04:50 earthquake." And Judy went, "Yeah, sure.
00:04:50 --> 00:04:51 Really?" I said, "Yeah, I reckon it
00:04:51 --> 00:04:53 was." Cuz nothing else happened. Didn't
00:04:53 --> 00:04:55 feel any vibration. Okay, that's
00:04:55 --> 00:04:57 interesting. Yeah, you didn't feel it.
00:04:57 --> 00:04:59 Just the door did. Oh, well, we got a
00:04:59 --> 00:05:02 great bed. Just very quick proof. Paid a
00:05:02 --> 00:05:04 lot for it, but yeah, it worked. We
00:05:04 --> 00:05:07 didn't feel the earthquake, but um yeah,
00:05:07 --> 00:05:08 sure enough, next morning I thought I'd
00:05:08 --> 00:05:10 check and Geossciences Australia
00:05:10 --> 00:05:13 confirmed it. So five 5.3 which is one
00:05:13 --> 00:05:16 of the biggest ever recorded out here.
00:05:16 --> 00:05:19 Oh yes that's right. Yeah it is. So um
00:05:19 --> 00:05:21 one of my colleagues at the Australian
00:05:21 --> 00:05:23 Astronomical Observatory former
00:05:23 --> 00:05:24 Australian Astronomical Observatory on
00:05:24 --> 00:05:26 the Anglo Australian telescope. He is
00:05:26 --> 00:05:29 one of the telescope operators Andre
00:05:30 --> 00:05:33 Phillips uh he was sitting in the
00:05:34 --> 00:05:36 control chair for the telescope and he
00:05:36 --> 00:05:38 felt something as well. He felt the
00:05:38 --> 00:05:42 chair being sort of moved u as though
00:05:42 --> 00:05:44 somebody was shaking it from behind.
00:05:44 --> 00:05:46 Yeah, that's what it feels like. Yeah.
00:05:46 --> 00:05:47 Well, cuz I was in Newcastle earthquake
00:05:47 --> 00:05:49 and I'd done an overnight shift when it
00:05:49 --> 00:05:52 hit and it was 5.5
00:05:52 --> 00:05:55 and it felt to me like somebody just got
00:05:55 --> 00:05:57 the end of the bed and was just bouncing
00:05:57 --> 00:06:00 bouncing it up and down and it was much
00:06:00 --> 00:06:02 more violent than what we expect it
00:06:02 --> 00:06:04 would be. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, Andre,
00:06:04 --> 00:06:06 interestingly, this same gentleman I was
00:06:06 --> 00:06:09 just talking about, he also runs um a
00:06:09 --> 00:06:11 very sensitive seismograph at home
00:06:11 --> 00:06:12 because he's quite interested in
00:06:12 --> 00:06:15 seismometry. Uh so, yes, I think he went
00:06:15 --> 00:06:17 home at the end of his night shift, had
00:06:17 --> 00:06:19 a look and sure enough, there was a 5.3
00:06:19 --> 00:06:21 or 5.2
00:06:21 --> 00:06:24 earthquake from Lingan. Yeah. Yeah. He
00:06:24 --> 00:06:26 would have felt more of it in Kabaraban
00:06:26 --> 00:06:29 than here. And I calculation because I
00:06:29 --> 00:06:31 looked at the clock immediately and it
00:06:31 --> 00:06:33 was 237
00:06:33 --> 00:06:35 and I know that was the exact time
00:06:35 --> 00:06:38 because it was an Apple Watch. So it was
00:06:38 --> 00:06:40 synchronized. Yeah. And I worked out
00:06:40 --> 00:06:43 that the vibration took 40 seconds to
00:06:43 --> 00:06:46 reach us. Okay. At approximately 300
00:06:46 --> 00:06:50 kilometers an hour. Yeah. Just round.
00:06:50 --> 00:06:53 Yes. Yes. Something like that. Yeah.
00:06:53 --> 00:06:56 Anyway, um, give or take because I
00:06:56 --> 00:06:59 don't, it wasn't exactly 236, but you
00:06:59 --> 00:07:02 know what I'm saying. Um, yeah. So,
00:07:02 --> 00:07:03 exciting. Exciting. Haven't been any
00:07:04 --> 00:07:06 aftershocks that I'm aware of, but um,
00:07:06 --> 00:07:07 there's a lot of tremors out here that
00:07:07 --> 00:07:09 you don't ever feel or notice because
00:07:09 --> 00:07:12 they're just so small, but um, nothing
00:07:12 --> 00:07:12 that
00:07:13 --> 00:07:16 big. We better get on with it, Fred. And
00:07:16 --> 00:07:20 our first story u from the cosmos or
00:07:20 --> 00:07:23 closer to home is a possible new dwarf
00:07:23 --> 00:07:25 planet uh in the extremities of our
00:07:25 --> 00:07:29 solar system. This is um really exciting
00:07:29 --> 00:07:31 uh if it holds true and it's sort of
00:07:31 --> 00:07:34 stacking up that way I think. So yes um
00:07:34 --> 00:07:38 this is relatively straightforward
00:07:38 --> 00:07:41 uh astrometry which is the measurement
00:07:41 --> 00:07:45 of celestial objects in space. their
00:07:45 --> 00:07:50 actual uh direction. Um and it's um
00:07:50 --> 00:07:54 comes from uh in information collected
00:07:54 --> 00:07:58 over quite a long period of time uh with
00:07:58 --> 00:08:02 um telescopes around the world. Um this
00:08:02 --> 00:08:03 so a lot of this discovery is due to
00:08:03 --> 00:08:06 archival data where you can look at
00:08:06 --> 00:08:08 images of particular bits of the sky and
00:08:08 --> 00:08:10 accurately work out the position of
00:08:10 --> 00:08:13 objects in those images. Um, it's
00:08:13 --> 00:08:15 actually what you do, Andrew, just as an
00:08:15 --> 00:08:17 aside here, uh, when a near-Earth
00:08:17 --> 00:08:21 asteroid is is detected. Uh, the first
00:08:21 --> 00:08:23 thing astronomers do is look back
00:08:23 --> 00:08:25 through archival data to see if there
00:08:25 --> 00:08:28 are any, uh, images, photographic images
00:08:28 --> 00:08:31 or electronically detected images that
00:08:31 --> 00:08:32 will show it because the longer you can
00:08:32 --> 00:08:34 observe something for, the more
00:08:34 --> 00:08:37 accurately you can deduce its orbit. And
00:08:37 --> 00:08:39 that is true with this object which
00:08:39 --> 00:08:43 turns out to be a TNO, a trans neptunian
00:08:43 --> 00:08:47 object. Um it's been uh studied by uh
00:08:47 --> 00:08:49 astrophysicists at the Institute for
00:08:49 --> 00:08:52 Advanced Study in Princeton, very very
00:08:52 --> 00:08:55 distinguished uh institution. Um and
00:08:55 --> 00:08:59 what they found uh is an object with the
00:08:59 --> 00:09:02 very unmemorable name of
00:09:02 --> 00:09:07 2017. Uh it is an uh an object a trans
00:09:07 --> 00:09:09 neptunian object in a very very
00:09:09 --> 00:09:15 elongated orbit. Um its nearest point to
00:09:15 --> 00:09:20 the solar system is I think it's 42
00:09:20 --> 00:09:24 uh thereabouts astronomical unit. Is
00:09:24 --> 00:09:26 that right? No. 44
00:09:26 --> 00:09:29 44.5. That's its closest point to the
00:09:29 --> 00:09:31 sun. What we call the perihelion.
00:09:31 --> 00:09:34 44.5 times that of the Earth's orbit. In
00:09:34 --> 00:09:37 other words, 44.5 astronomical units.
00:09:37 --> 00:09:40 But the staggering thing is that it's
00:09:40 --> 00:09:46 app helion uh the furthest point uh is
00:09:46 --> 00:09:49 uh now let me find the number. It's much
00:09:49 --> 00:09:53 much higher. You might have it 32. Uh
00:09:53 --> 00:09:55 it's it's um it's I think it's more than
00:09:56 --> 00:09:59 that. Um where are we? I think it's in
00:09:59 --> 00:10:04 the thousands. Uh it's uh very very
00:10:04 --> 00:10:08 distant. So when it was found, I beg
00:10:08 --> 00:10:10 you. Yeah. When it was found, it was
00:10:10 --> 00:10:15 about 90 astronomical units away. Uh and
00:10:15 --> 00:10:18 there are enough observations that it's
00:10:18 --> 00:10:21 sort of continuing. Oh, there it orbit
00:10:21 --> 00:10:24 1600. Yeah. 1600 astronomical units.
00:10:24 --> 00:10:28 That's its furthest. And um that means
00:10:28 --> 00:10:32 that uh it's only going to be visible to
00:10:32 --> 00:10:35 earthbased telescopes for a few% of its
00:10:35 --> 00:10:38 orbit when it's when it's at its nearest
00:10:38 --> 00:10:41 um point to Earth. They're actually
00:10:41 --> 00:10:43 saying, Fred, that it's going far enough
00:10:43 --> 00:10:46 out to be entering the Ort cloud. That's
00:10:46 --> 00:10:48 right. Part of the inner cloud, which
00:10:48 --> 00:10:50 makes it a very interesting object
00:10:50 --> 00:10:52 indeed. Sure, it does. um with an
00:10:52 --> 00:10:54 orbital period if I remember rightly of
00:10:54 --> 00:10:56 what is it 25 light years or
00:10:56 --> 00:10:59 something ridiculous like that. 25
00:10:59 --> 00:11:01 years to complete an orbit. Sorry,
00:11:01 --> 00:11:03 25 years. Not not 25 light
00:11:03 --> 00:11:06 years. Yeah. So it's it's a very very
00:11:06 --> 00:11:09 distant object. In fact, it's probably
00:11:09 --> 00:11:11 um apart from comets, uh it's probably
00:11:11 --> 00:11:13 one of the most distant objects ever
00:11:13 --> 00:11:17 discovered. Uh it's because at its
00:11:17 --> 00:11:19 nearest it's roughly the same distance
00:11:19 --> 00:11:21 from the sun as Pluto is, but at its
00:11:21 --> 00:11:23 furthest, as you've said, it's it's
00:11:23 --> 00:11:25 skimming the inner edge of the or cloud,
00:11:25 --> 00:11:28 that cloud of uh icy debris that we
00:11:28 --> 00:11:30 recognize as being the the source of
00:11:30 --> 00:11:32 comets, comets that drift in towards the
00:11:32 --> 00:11:36 inner solar system. Uh so a really
00:11:36 --> 00:11:39 remarkable um remarkable uh set of
00:11:39 --> 00:11:41 observations. It's been observed 19
00:11:41 --> 00:11:43 times. So, it's got a very high
00:11:43 --> 00:11:46 certainty in its orbit. Uh, but the the
00:11:46 --> 00:11:48 the quirky part of this, which you've
00:11:48 --> 00:11:53 already alluded to, is that um when the
00:11:53 --> 00:11:55 team the research team who've done this
00:11:55 --> 00:11:59 work actually looked at the simulations
00:11:59 --> 00:12:04 of uh the way the orbit of 2017
00:12:04 --> 00:12:09 uh behaves. uh they found that uh it's
00:12:09 --> 00:12:13 it's orbit is only stable and longterm
00:12:14 --> 00:12:15 without planet
00:12:15 --> 00:12:19 9. So if you have planet 9 in the
00:12:19 --> 00:12:22 equation then it gets thrown out within
00:12:22 --> 00:12:24 100 million years which means you know
00:12:24 --> 00:12:26 that's a short time in astronomical
00:12:26 --> 00:12:30 terms. So yeah, it's uh it's that if its
00:12:30 --> 00:12:32 existence is
00:12:32 --> 00:12:36 confirmed, then planet 9 can't exist.
00:12:36 --> 00:12:37 That's what they're saying. That is what
00:12:38 --> 00:12:40 they are saying. Yes. That it's this is
00:12:40 --> 00:12:43 uh a quote from the the media. It's one
00:12:43 --> 00:12:45 of the strongest pieces of evidence yet
00:12:45 --> 00:12:50 against the existence of planet 9. Um
00:12:50 --> 00:12:53 yeah, that's right. Uh it it it does
00:12:53 --> 00:12:55 suggest that there are more objects of
00:12:55 --> 00:12:57 the same kind. We haven't found them
00:12:57 --> 00:12:59 yet. Uh but yes, the figure I was
00:12:59 --> 00:13:02 looking for earlier, um it spends only
00:13:02 --> 00:13:05 1% of its time in orbit, near enough to
00:13:05 --> 00:13:08 be able to be detected from Earth
00:13:08 --> 00:13:10 because it's it's such a it's a
00:13:10 --> 00:13:12 relatively small object thought to be
00:13:12 --> 00:13:14 around 700 kilometers, which probably
00:13:14 --> 00:13:16 makes it a dwarf planet rather than a
00:13:16 --> 00:13:20 large asteroid. Uh and uh that's
00:13:20 --> 00:13:23 imagining that something that size can
00:13:23 --> 00:13:26 only be visible for 1% of its orbital
00:13:26 --> 00:13:28 period because the rest just takes it
00:13:28 --> 00:13:30 too far away. It gives you a good idea
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33 of just how elongated its orbit is.
00:13:33 --> 00:13:34 Yeah, we're lucky to have spotted it
00:13:34 --> 00:13:36 given the time frame that Well, that's
00:13:36 --> 00:13:39 right. Yes. uh cuz it'll drift away and
00:13:39 --> 00:13:42 will very soon be uh invisible to our
00:13:42 --> 00:13:45 planet. And it has a lot of weight to a
00:13:45 --> 00:13:47 theory we talked about some time ago
00:13:47 --> 00:13:50 from one scientist who said there is no
00:13:50 --> 00:13:53 planet 9. I think there's a whole bunch
00:13:53 --> 00:13:56 of stuff out there that's causing the
00:13:56 --> 00:13:58 same effect. And this sounds like one of
00:13:58 --> 00:14:01 those things. Yes, that's right. And and
00:14:01 --> 00:14:03 it's similar. There was a similar
00:14:03 --> 00:14:05 argument around the same time by another
00:14:05 --> 00:14:06 group of scientists, one of whom I
00:14:06 --> 00:14:09 actually spoke to in Canada a couple of
00:14:09 --> 00:14:13 years ago uh who said effectively that
00:14:13 --> 00:14:15 you know the evidence for planet 9 is
00:14:15 --> 00:14:17 based on I don't know it's probably a
00:14:17 --> 00:14:20 dozen or so um of these icy asteroids
00:14:20 --> 00:14:23 all of who's elongated orbits sort of
00:14:23 --> 00:14:26 line up in in the same way. And the
00:14:26 --> 00:14:28 suggestion that was being made by these
00:14:28 --> 00:14:31 other scientists is that actually we
00:14:31 --> 00:14:33 it's not so much that it's a selection
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35 effect. We just haven't found all the
00:14:35 --> 00:14:37 other ones that aren't aligned in the
00:14:37 --> 00:14:39 same way uh that would you know
00:14:40 --> 00:14:42 contradict the idea of planet 9. So um
00:14:42 --> 00:14:45 yes this object might be the poster
00:14:45 --> 00:14:49 child of the anti-Planet 9 lobby. Uh but
00:14:49 --> 00:14:52 it does seem to suggest that it does not
00:14:52 --> 00:14:54 um it planet 9 does not exist. And just
00:14:54 --> 00:14:58 to uh to um underline what we were
00:14:58 --> 00:15:00 saying earlier, it has actually been
00:15:00 --> 00:15:04 officially confirmed uh as an asteroid
00:15:04 --> 00:15:06 by the International Astronomical Union.
00:15:06 --> 00:15:09 So u it will no doubt get a name because
00:15:09 --> 00:15:12 once it's confirmed uh by the IAU then
00:15:12 --> 00:15:14 you can give it a name and it's an
00:15:14 --> 00:15:18 asteroid or dwarf planet. um as as I I
00:15:18 --> 00:15:22 mean a name like uh you know Pluto or or
00:15:22 --> 00:15:26 um Mak Mak or one of those names. But
00:15:26 --> 00:15:27 we're calling it a dwarf planet. That's
00:15:27 --> 00:15:31 that's right. Yeah. At 700 kilome I I
00:15:31 --> 00:15:33 don't think the IU makes a distinction
00:15:33 --> 00:15:36 when they when they actually confirm its
00:15:36 --> 00:15:38 orbit. They don't say anything about its
00:15:38 --> 00:15:42 size. uh be because that's dependent on
00:15:42 --> 00:15:44 but that that depends on measurements
00:15:44 --> 00:15:46 that are a lot more difficult to do. But
00:15:46 --> 00:15:47 once its orbit's been confirmed then it
00:15:47 --> 00:15:50 becomes an official object. Uh which
00:15:50 --> 00:15:52 could be either a dwarf planet or an
00:15:52 --> 00:15:54 asteroid. Okay. All right. So the jury
00:15:54 --> 00:15:57 might still be out for a bit but um yes
00:15:57 --> 00:16:00 it's there and it looks like that's put
00:16:00 --> 00:16:04 the kaosh on planet nine. More to come
00:16:04 --> 00:16:06 on that one I am sure. Sure there is.
00:16:06 --> 00:16:08 Yes. Now, if you'd like to read all
00:16:08 --> 00:16:11 about it, you can do that at
00:16:11 --> 00:16:13 sciencealert.com. This is Spacenuts.
00:16:13 --> 00:16:16 Andrew Dunley here with Professor Fred
00:16:16 --> 00:16:19 Watson. Now, let's take a quick break
00:16:19 --> 00:16:21 from the show to tell you about our
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00:17:55 --> 00:17:59 to 185 minutes of battery life. Uh so
00:17:59 --> 00:18:02 much going for this beautiful Insta3 X5
00:18:02 --> 00:18:05 camera. And uh at the moment as a Space
00:18:05 --> 00:18:07 Nuts listener, there's a special deal
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00:18:11 --> 00:18:13 standard package and one of the first 30
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00:18:23 --> 00:18:27 to this URL to find out more and, uh,
00:18:27 --> 00:18:29 sign up for the, uh, the standard
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00:18:41 --> 00:18:43 store.insta360.com. And don't forget the
00:18:43 --> 00:18:45 promo code spaceenuts. uh with this
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00:18:51 --> 00:18:55 camera. That's
00:18:55 --> 00:18:57 store.insta360.com and use the promo
00:18:57 --> 00:18:59 code spacen nuts. We've got all the
00:18:59 --> 00:19:03 details in our show notes. Now back to
00:19:03 --> 00:19:04 Space
00:19:04 --> 00:19:07 Nuts and I feel Space Nuts. Let's move
00:19:07 --> 00:19:10 on to our next story. Fred, I find this
00:19:10 --> 00:19:14 one fascinating for for one reason. This
00:19:14 --> 00:19:15 is going to sound strange. I've never
00:19:15 --> 00:19:18 heard of this place. Oh, really? I heard
00:19:18 --> 00:19:21 of it. Um, it's a moon of Saturn known
00:19:21 --> 00:19:24 as Yapotus. Now, when I say I've never
00:19:24 --> 00:19:26 heard of it, when I saw a picture, I
00:19:26 --> 00:19:28 went, "Oh, yeah. I know I've seen that
00:19:28 --> 00:19:31 picture before." Yes. Because it's
00:19:31 --> 00:19:33 unique. That's why that's why this plan
00:19:33 --> 00:19:36 uh this moon is so very interesting. Uh
00:19:36 --> 00:19:38 because questions are still being asked
00:19:38 --> 00:19:40 as to how it looks the way it does. It's
00:19:40 --> 00:19:43 a strange place and it's getting um a
00:19:44 --> 00:19:46 fair bit of attention in social media at
00:19:46 --> 00:19:49 the moment um amongst other things but
00:19:49 --> 00:19:52 uh yes it's back in the news. It is back
00:19:52 --> 00:19:54 in the news. I think it is really as you
00:19:54 --> 00:19:55 say I think it really is social media
00:19:55 --> 00:19:59 that stirred this up. Um we so you know
00:19:59 --> 00:20:03 until 2017 when the spacecraft plunged
00:20:03 --> 00:20:06 into the atmosphere of uh Saturn, we
00:20:06 --> 00:20:09 were absolutely
00:20:09 --> 00:20:12 um swamped by marvelous photographs of
00:20:12 --> 00:20:14 the moons of Saturn from the Cassini
00:20:14 --> 00:20:16 spacecraft. Uh told us more about the
00:20:16 --> 00:20:18 moons of Saturn than we could ever have
00:20:18 --> 00:20:22 guessed that we'd learn. uh and and I
00:20:22 --> 00:20:25 think um so Yapatus was certainly very
00:20:25 --> 00:20:26 much in the headlines then because it is
00:20:26 --> 00:20:30 such a peculiar world but it it sort of
00:20:30 --> 00:20:32 because so many of the questions don't
00:20:32 --> 00:20:35 really have proper answers uh
00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 that's allowed it to sort of fade from
00:20:38 --> 00:20:41 uh from the attention of planetary
00:20:41 --> 00:20:45 scientists but it's been spotted by I
00:20:45 --> 00:20:47 mean spotted in the media by social
00:20:47 --> 00:20:50 social media people who have really
00:20:50 --> 00:20:53 raised it once again uh um you know as
00:20:53 --> 00:20:55 as a place of great interest and maybe
00:20:56 --> 00:20:58 that will encourage some of the uh
00:20:58 --> 00:21:00 planetary scientists who have certainly
00:21:00 --> 00:21:03 had an interest in Yapitus uh to go back
00:21:03 --> 00:21:05 to some of the Cassini data maybe using
00:21:06 --> 00:21:08 you know more modern AI methods to
00:21:08 --> 00:21:11 analyze it and actually check out what
00:21:11 --> 00:21:15 is going on there. Yeah. Um, so it's uh
00:21:15 --> 00:21:18 the first thing you'd find out about
00:21:18 --> 00:21:21 Yapotus and it was when it was
00:21:21 --> 00:21:25 discovered back in the 17th century. uh
00:21:25 --> 00:21:29 Gavanni Cassini, that great observer who
00:21:29 --> 00:21:30 discovered the Cassini division, hence
00:21:30 --> 00:21:32 the name,
00:21:33 --> 00:21:36 um made the discovery that this this
00:21:36 --> 00:21:39 little world orbiting Saturn
00:21:39 --> 00:21:43 uh is peculiar because one side of it
00:21:43 --> 00:21:45 was very much darker than the other. I
00:21:45 --> 00:21:47 remember actually at the start of my
00:21:47 --> 00:21:51 career uh back in the early 1970s when I
00:21:51 --> 00:21:53 was working at Nordic Almanac office of
00:21:53 --> 00:21:55 the Royal Greenwich Observatory with one
00:21:55 --> 00:21:57 of my colleagues there Andy Sinclair was
00:21:57 --> 00:21:59 a specialist on Yapotus and he kept
00:21:59 --> 00:22:02 telling me it was a very peculiar world
00:22:02 --> 00:22:04 but it was only when Cassini went flew
00:22:04 --> 00:22:06 by a few decades later that we realized
00:22:06 --> 00:22:09 just how peculiar it is. So, it is
00:22:09 --> 00:22:13 covered in craters. Uh, but it's got
00:22:13 --> 00:22:15 this dark side which just looks as
00:22:15 --> 00:22:17 though it's been spattered with soot.
00:22:18 --> 00:22:19 Looks as though, you know, somebody's
00:22:19 --> 00:22:22 put a pile of soot out there and and
00:22:22 --> 00:22:25 Yapotus has run into it. Uh, and you've
00:22:25 --> 00:22:28 so you've got this very dark face to it
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 contrasting with a very highly
00:22:30 --> 00:22:34 reflective surface. Uh, now that's
00:22:34 --> 00:22:37 peculiar in itself because it's only on
00:22:37 --> 00:22:39 one side and that's the forward- facing
00:22:39 --> 00:22:42 side. Yepus goes around Saturn tidily
00:22:42 --> 00:22:45 locked. Uh, so that it always keeps the
00:22:45 --> 00:22:46 same face to Saturn. That means there's
00:22:46 --> 00:22:48 always a a forward side and a backward
00:22:48 --> 00:22:50 side, but this stuff's on the forward
00:22:50 --> 00:22:52 side. If I'm I'm actually remembering
00:22:52 --> 00:22:56 from my uh talks on Cassini back in the
00:22:56 --> 00:22:57 day. I haven't done one of those for
00:22:58 --> 00:23:01 nearly a decade. But anyway, um, uh,
00:23:01 --> 00:23:03 that's the one peculiar thing about it.
00:23:03 --> 00:23:06 But the other one is even weirder. And
00:23:06 --> 00:23:09 this is this equatorial ridge, a ridge
00:23:09 --> 00:23:11 that goes all the way around it. It's
00:23:11 --> 00:23:14 something like 10 kilometers high uh, or
00:23:14 --> 00:23:17 thereabouts. It's a line of mountains
00:23:17 --> 00:23:20 effectively, but it's right along the
00:23:20 --> 00:23:24 the equator of Yapotus. It reminds me of
00:23:24 --> 00:23:26 a walnut.
00:23:26 --> 00:23:28 It is. That's right. used to think it
00:23:28 --> 00:23:30 looked like a walnut. Exactly that. Uh
00:23:30 --> 00:23:34 and so I mean there's various theories
00:23:34 --> 00:23:36 as to how it got there and the one that
00:23:36 --> 00:23:41 I thought was the most common one uh was
00:23:41 --> 00:23:44 that uh it was caused by the contraction
00:23:44 --> 00:23:47 of the crust of Yapotus. That makes
00:23:47 --> 00:23:51 sense. Um the you know that if as
00:23:51 --> 00:23:54 Yapitus cooled after its creation uh
00:23:54 --> 00:23:58 it's rotating on its axis uh the crust
00:23:58 --> 00:24:01 contracts and so you get a bulge which
00:24:01 --> 00:24:03 naturally forms around the equator of
00:24:04 --> 00:24:06 rotation right angles to the axis of
00:24:06 --> 00:24:09 rotation but um I think other
00:24:09 --> 00:24:13 hypotheses have have been put forward.
00:24:13 --> 00:24:17 One is that perhaps there was a ring
00:24:17 --> 00:24:20 system around Yapotus that actually
00:24:20 --> 00:24:23 collapsed and fell onto the surface and
00:24:23 --> 00:24:25 generated the ring of mountains. Uh,
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 another one is possibly icy material
00:24:29 --> 00:24:31 coming out from beneath the surface of
00:24:31 --> 00:24:34 Yapitus. We we know that um many of the
00:24:34 --> 00:24:37 moons of the um of those outer planets
00:24:37 --> 00:24:42 are have got a ice or perhaps icy slush
00:24:42 --> 00:24:47 underneath the surface um because of the
00:24:47 --> 00:24:48 fact that they're what we call ice
00:24:48 --> 00:24:51 worlds with a with a central rocky core,
00:24:51 --> 00:24:54 a liquid ocean above it which may be
00:24:54 --> 00:24:56 quite slushy uh and then a crust of
00:24:56 --> 00:24:58 solid ice on top of that. That could be
00:24:58 --> 00:25:00 the construction. Once again, if you've
00:25:00 --> 00:25:02 got stuff coming up from beneath the
00:25:02 --> 00:25:04 surface and the object is spinning fast
00:25:04 --> 00:25:08 enough, uh then you will get uh perhaps
00:25:08 --> 00:25:10 a ring of mountains like we see on the
00:25:10 --> 00:25:14 oppos um not none of which come from the
00:25:14 --> 00:25:16 original idea which was contraction. So
00:25:16 --> 00:25:19 I'm very interested to know where the
00:25:19 --> 00:25:22 scientific uh you know the scientific um
00:25:22 --> 00:25:25 uh consensus is going on this little
00:25:25 --> 00:25:27 world. And uh it's great that it's it's
00:25:27 --> 00:25:29 cropped up again. It's welled up again
00:25:29 --> 00:25:31 into the public consciousness. It has.
00:25:31 --> 00:25:34 Yeah. Another theory I read was just a
00:25:34 --> 00:25:37 high spin rate at some stage. Yes. Yeah.
00:25:37 --> 00:25:39 That would cause a bulge rather than a
00:25:39 --> 00:25:42 mountain range. I would I would
00:25:42 --> 00:25:45 expect well you normally that causes a
00:25:45 --> 00:25:48 planet to flatten slightly to so that
00:25:48 --> 00:25:51 it's um it's a yes. It's a bulge. It's
00:25:51 --> 00:25:53 the Earth's shape is that what we call
00:25:53 --> 00:25:56 an oblate spheroid. Saturn itself
00:25:56 --> 00:25:58 actually is the most extreme example in
00:25:58 --> 00:26:00 the solar system because it's um it's
00:26:00 --> 00:26:03 the diameter to between the poles is
00:26:03 --> 00:26:05 significantly less than the diameter
00:26:05 --> 00:26:07 across the equator. It's um and it's
00:26:07 --> 00:26:09 this kind of oval shape in
00:26:09 --> 00:26:12 cross-section. Um so that that's that's
00:26:12 --> 00:26:14 what you'd expect from something
00:26:14 --> 00:26:17 rotating quickly. Not a a welldefined
00:26:18 --> 00:26:20 ridge of mountains like we see on
00:26:20 --> 00:26:24 Yapotus. Quite an amazing world. Another
00:26:24 --> 00:26:27 weird factor I suppose is its proximity
00:26:27 --> 00:26:28 to Saturn. It's actually a long way
00:26:28 --> 00:26:31 away. Very far. Yes, that's right. It's
00:26:31 --> 00:26:33 um what is it? 3.2
00:26:33 --> 00:26:35 million bill kilometers or thereabouts.
00:26:35 --> 00:26:38 It's a long long way. 3.22 million
00:26:38 --> 00:26:41 kilometers from Saturn. Could the could
00:26:41 --> 00:26:43 be that could the dark face be some sort
00:26:44 --> 00:26:46 of reaction with Saturn radiation or
00:26:46 --> 00:26:49 something like that? It's um the
00:26:49 --> 00:26:52 thinking back in the Cassini era and I
00:26:52 --> 00:26:54 suspect it's probably similar is that it
00:26:54 --> 00:26:58 consists of organic chemicals um that
00:26:58 --> 00:27:02 formed this kind of soot. I think uh
00:27:02 --> 00:27:05 sins might have been in um invoked as
00:27:05 --> 00:27:07 well. These are particular organic
00:27:07 --> 00:27:10 chemicals that we know coat a lot of the
00:27:10 --> 00:27:12 outer worlds because they're they're
00:27:12 --> 00:27:14 generated by I think the impact of
00:27:14 --> 00:27:19 cosmic rays on on material. Um but it's
00:27:19 --> 00:27:21 the peculiar thing is that it's only on
00:27:21 --> 00:27:23 one side. It looks as though it's just
00:27:23 --> 00:27:24 kind of run into something that
00:27:24 --> 00:27:26 splattered all over the front of it.
00:27:26 --> 00:27:28 It's got that impression. Yeah. Somebody
00:27:28 --> 00:27:30 spilt the paint. Just what it looks
00:27:30 --> 00:27:32 like. That's why really odd. Yeah. Yeah,
00:27:32 --> 00:27:34 if you'd like to take a look at it, uh,
00:27:34 --> 00:27:37 Yapotus is all over the internet, lots
00:27:37 --> 00:27:38 of social media, but there's a great
00:27:38 --> 00:27:41 article at daily galaxy.com. Worth
00:27:41 --> 00:27:43 reading, uh, on Yapodus, which starts
00:27:43 --> 00:27:48 with an I. It's spelled, uh, I a P t us.
00:27:48 --> 00:27:50 Yepus. This is Space Nuts with Andrew
00:27:50 --> 00:27:56 Dunley and Fred Watson.
00:27:56 --> 00:28:00 Also, Space Nuts. Our final story today,
00:28:00 --> 00:28:04 Fred, uh, takes us to the, uh, very rare
00:28:04 --> 00:28:06 area of black hole
00:28:06 --> 00:28:09 discussion. Um, we get so many questions
00:28:10 --> 00:28:12 on this. I mean, it's it's unbelievable.
00:28:12 --> 00:28:14 In fact, I I think there was a question
00:28:14 --> 00:28:18 popping up about black holes um, in our
00:28:18 --> 00:28:20 next episode, as a matter of fact. But
00:28:20 --> 00:28:22 and and I think the reason is quite
00:28:22 --> 00:28:25 simple. people just want to understand
00:28:25 --> 00:28:28 them and there's so much we don't know.
00:28:28 --> 00:28:32 Um th this particular story focuses on
00:28:32 --> 00:28:34 primordial black holes and the
00:28:34 --> 00:28:36 possibility that they may well be
00:28:36 --> 00:28:39 responsible for today's dark
00:28:39 --> 00:28:42 matter. Um please
00:28:42 --> 00:28:45 explain. Well, yeah, this is a piece of
00:28:45 --> 00:28:50 theoretical research um which uh is good
00:28:50 --> 00:28:54 because you need it. Um uh it's uh uh
00:28:54 --> 00:28:56 this is research by Japanese uh
00:28:56 --> 00:29:00 scientists uh in Tokyo and elsewhere. Uh
00:29:00 --> 00:29:05 and what you have got here is people who
00:29:05 --> 00:29:09 are looking sort of almost with new eyes
00:29:09 --> 00:29:10 if I can put it that way at the dark
00:29:10 --> 00:29:15 matter problem because um dark matter is
00:29:15 --> 00:29:17 a big problem. We've got this stuff that
00:29:17 --> 00:29:19 seems to have a gravitational hold on
00:29:19 --> 00:29:21 galaxies so that they don't fly apart.
00:29:22 --> 00:29:25 Um, and a gravitational hold on galaxy
00:29:25 --> 00:29:27 clusters so they don't fly apart as
00:29:27 --> 00:29:29 well. Uh, and yet we can't detect it. We
00:29:30 --> 00:29:32 cannot detect it in any way other than
00:29:32 --> 00:29:35 by its gravitational pull. Yeah. We've
00:29:35 --> 00:29:37 never captured any of it or anything
00:29:37 --> 00:29:40 like that. No, that's right. So there's
00:29:40 --> 00:29:42 the that you know what what what have we
00:29:42 --> 00:29:47 got to go on? um not very much uh in
00:29:47 --> 00:29:51 terms of our understanding. Uh
00:29:51 --> 00:29:54 however, there was quite early on in the
00:29:54 --> 00:29:58 black in the dark matter story. Uh a
00:29:58 --> 00:30:01 number of experiments carried out on on
00:30:01 --> 00:30:03 big telescopes. One of which was
00:30:03 --> 00:30:06 actually here in Australia, a very
00:30:06 --> 00:30:08 historic telescope called the 50-in at
00:30:08 --> 00:30:11 Mount Stromlo, previously known as the
00:30:11 --> 00:30:12 the Great Melbourne Telescope because
00:30:12 --> 00:30:14 it's very old, but it had been
00:30:14 --> 00:30:16 modernized with new equipment. And they
00:30:16 --> 00:30:18 did an experiment which was called
00:30:18 --> 00:30:23 Macho. And it was uh designed to look
00:30:23 --> 00:30:26 for the gravitational lensing effect of
00:30:26 --> 00:30:30 large objects in the in the universe
00:30:30 --> 00:30:32 basically in the vicinity of our galaxy.
00:30:32 --> 00:30:34 And by large objects I mean things that
00:30:34 --> 00:30:37 aren't subatomic particles. So I mean
00:30:37 --> 00:30:41 things like uh orphaned planets, dead
00:30:41 --> 00:30:44 stars or black holes. And match was
00:30:44 --> 00:30:46 actually an acronym for massive compact
00:30:46 --> 00:30:51 halo objects. Now, they didn't uh see as
00:30:51 --> 00:30:54 many of these gravitational lensing
00:30:54 --> 00:30:56 phenomena.
00:30:57 --> 00:30:59 Uh, in other words, the space around one
00:30:59 --> 00:31:01 of these objects being bent, so it
00:31:01 --> 00:31:03 magnifies an object behind it. They
00:31:03 --> 00:31:06 didn't see any uh in numbers that were
00:31:06 --> 00:31:09 sufficient to make matchos the the
00:31:09 --> 00:31:13 missing dark matter. And so that was in
00:31:13 --> 00:31:17 the '9s that really ruled out things
00:31:17 --> 00:31:20 like black holes as being the uh the
00:31:20 --> 00:31:22 culprits for dark matter. And so that's
00:31:22 --> 00:31:25 when we were um you know our attention
00:31:25 --> 00:31:27 was shifted to the idea that dark matter
00:31:27 --> 00:31:29 is actually some species of subatomic
00:31:30 --> 00:31:32 particles perhaps many species but ones
00:31:32 --> 00:31:33 that don't interact in any way with
00:31:33 --> 00:31:35 normal matter and that's where things
00:31:35 --> 00:31:38 remain today. So it's interesting to
00:31:38 --> 00:31:40 find a paper which kind of goes back to
00:31:40 --> 00:31:44 an older idea that maybe black holes
00:31:44 --> 00:31:46 actually do contribute to the dark
00:31:46 --> 00:31:49 matter. Um and the reason why I think
00:31:49 --> 00:31:51 this paper has been published is that
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53 there is a slightly new twist to it
00:31:53 --> 00:31:57 because these are um the postulate is
00:31:57 --> 00:31:59 that these are primordial black holes.
00:31:59 --> 00:32:02 Black holes which were created at the
00:32:02 --> 00:32:04 same time as the universe was. In other
00:32:04 --> 00:32:06 words, during or immediately after the
00:32:06 --> 00:32:07 Big
00:32:07 --> 00:32:12 Bang. Um, so that you you basically
00:32:13 --> 00:32:16 um find these objects potentially. We
00:32:16 --> 00:32:18 we've never observed a primordial black
00:32:18 --> 00:32:20 hole. People just kind of guess that
00:32:20 --> 00:32:23 they are there. And we do see black
00:32:23 --> 00:32:25 holes that that
00:32:25 --> 00:32:28 that maybe fall within the mass range of
00:32:28 --> 00:32:31 a primordial black hole. But uh we we
00:32:31 --> 00:32:34 don't actually know that they exist. But
00:32:34 --> 00:32:36 um the to come to the point, I'm not
00:32:36 --> 00:32:39 being very clear here. What's what has
00:32:39 --> 00:32:42 actually uh led to this research is that
00:32:42 --> 00:32:46 the lifetime of a black hole is possibly
00:32:46 --> 00:32:49 much much longer than Hawking predicted
00:32:49 --> 00:32:51 that these primordial black holes would
00:32:51 --> 00:32:53 la last. He gave them because they were
00:32:54 --> 00:32:56 smaller, he gave them a relatively short
00:32:56 --> 00:32:58 lifetime. Black holes we know do
00:32:58 --> 00:33:00 evaporate because they release Hawking
00:33:00 --> 00:33:02 radiation, this quantum uh mechanics
00:33:02 --> 00:33:07 phenomena. uh and um that the the idea
00:33:08 --> 00:33:09 even though that is a very very slow
00:33:09 --> 00:33:11 process. If you've got these sort of
00:33:11 --> 00:33:14 mini black holes that were formed in the
00:33:14 --> 00:33:16 origin of the universe, our thinking was
00:33:16 --> 00:33:18 that they might all have evaporated by
00:33:18 --> 00:33:21 now. And that's where this new research
00:33:21 --> 00:33:23 comes in because they are proposing a
00:33:23 --> 00:33:26 new mechanism uh which has got an
00:33:26 --> 00:33:30 interesting name. It is uh something
00:33:30 --> 00:33:33 called I've lost the name of it. Um it's
00:33:33 --> 00:33:36 a basically a Yes. The memory burden
00:33:36 --> 00:33:39 effect. Work that one out. Yeah.
00:33:39 --> 00:33:42 The memory burden effect uh suggests
00:33:42 --> 00:33:47 that um the the the information stored
00:33:47 --> 00:33:48 if I can put it that way in the black
00:33:48 --> 00:33:52 hole actually stabilizes it and keeps it
00:33:52 --> 00:33:55 uh from decaying. So that the to to cut
00:33:55 --> 00:33:58 to the quick uh the idea is that these
00:33:58 --> 00:34:00 primordial black holes might last a lot
00:34:00 --> 00:34:03 longer than Hawking predicted they would
00:34:03 --> 00:34:05 and perhaps they are after all the
00:34:05 --> 00:34:09 missing dark matter. Now that still has
00:34:09 --> 00:34:11 to account for why we didn't detect them
00:34:11 --> 00:34:13 by gravitational lensing during the
00:34:13 --> 00:34:15 Macho experiment and similar experiments
00:34:15 --> 00:34:17 carried out elsewhere in the world but
00:34:17 --> 00:34:20 it is an interesting possibility. Yes.
00:34:20 --> 00:34:23 Yes. Um
00:34:23 --> 00:34:25 It's probably the best theory we've got,
00:34:25 --> 00:34:28 I suppose, at the moment.
00:34:28 --> 00:34:31 Um, yeah, I'm not sure that it is. Oh,
00:34:31 --> 00:34:36 okay. Um, I think, you know, I I
00:34:36 --> 00:34:39 I because we don't even know whether
00:34:39 --> 00:34:42 primordial black holes actually exist.
00:34:42 --> 00:34:44 Um, we don't know that these subatomic
00:34:44 --> 00:34:48 particles exist either. Uh but it seems
00:34:48 --> 00:34:51 to me that the bill is better fitted by
00:34:51 --> 00:34:54 what black holes might be uh sorry by
00:34:54 --> 00:34:57 what dark matter might be by the
00:34:57 --> 00:35:00 subatomic particles rather than pime
00:35:00 --> 00:35:02 primordial black holes. Well, they won't
00:35:02 --> 00:35:04 be letting you do a peer review, will
00:35:04 --> 00:35:06 they? They won't. No, that's being I've
00:35:06 --> 00:35:08 made my mind up already. You see, but we
00:35:08 --> 00:35:09 don't know what they are. What what you
00:35:09 --> 00:35:12 know, are they neutralos? Are they
00:35:12 --> 00:35:14 wimps? weakly interacting massive
00:35:15 --> 00:35:17 particles, sterile neutrinos. There's
00:35:17 --> 00:35:18 all kinds of things that have been
00:35:18 --> 00:35:21 proposed for these uh subatomic
00:35:21 --> 00:35:23 particles, but none have yet been
00:35:23 --> 00:35:26 detected. Yeah. All right. Interesting.
00:35:26 --> 00:35:28 Uh I'm sure that will spawn no questions
00:35:28 --> 00:35:31 whatsoever from our audience.
00:35:31 --> 00:35:32 Heidi will have to deal with him next
00:35:32 --> 00:35:35 time. Yes, he will. Yes, she will
00:35:35 --> 00:35:38 indeed. Uh so, if you'd like to chase
00:35:38 --> 00:35:40 that up, uh there's a great article uh
00:35:40 --> 00:35:44 on fizz.org. phys.org. Detecting the
00:35:44 --> 00:35:46 primordial black holes that could be
00:35:46 --> 00:35:49 today's dark matter. Fred thinks not.
00:35:50 --> 00:35:51 But um that's what science is about,
00:35:51 --> 00:35:54 tossing these ideas around. And that
00:35:54 --> 00:35:56 brings us to the end of yet another
00:35:56 --> 00:35:58 episode of Space Nuts. Thanks, Fred.
00:35:58 --> 00:36:00 It's a pleasure, Andrew. Always good to
00:36:00 --> 00:36:02 talk and I look forward to our next
00:36:02 --> 00:36:06 time. Indeed. And uh thanks to Hugh in
00:36:06 --> 00:36:07 the studio who couldn't be with us
00:36:07 --> 00:36:09 today. He found himself a primordial
00:36:09 --> 00:36:12 black hole and we've not seen him seen
00:36:12 --> 00:36:15 seen him since. Apparently he loves
00:36:15 --> 00:36:19 spaghetti. Uh me Andrew Dunley. Thanks
00:36:19 --> 00:36:21 for your company. Catch you on the next
00:36:21 --> 00:36:23 episode of Space Nuts. Bye-bye. Space
00:36:23 --> 00:36:26 nuts. You'll be listening to the Space
00:36:26 --> 00:36:28 Nuts podcast
00:36:28 --> 00:36:31 available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
00:36:31 --> 00:36:34 iHeart Radio, or your favorite podcast
00:36:34 --> 00:36:37 player. You can also stream on demand at
00:36:37 --> 00:36:39 byes.com. This has been another quality
00:36:39 --> 00:36:44 podcast production from byes.com.