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New Year, New Discoveries: Expandable Space Stations, Martian Caves, and Rogue Planets
In this exciting New Year edition of Space Nuts , hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson kick off 2026 with a bang, discussing groundbreaking developments in space exploration and astronomy. From innovative proposals for expandable space stations to intriguing discoveries on Mars, this episode is packed with cosmic insights.
Episode Highlights:
- Expandable Space Stations: Andrew and Fred dive into a fascinating proposal for an inflatable space station that could expand to be larger than the International Space Station. They explore the technology behind this concept and its potential implications for future space tourism and research.
- Strange Caves on Mars: The duo discusses recent findings of unique caves on Mars that may have formed through water-driven processes. These caves could provide a habitat for microbial life, sparking interest in future rover missions to investigate their potential.
- Observations of Rogue Planets: Andrew and Fred delve into the elusive nature of rogue planets, discussing how recent observations using gravitational microlensing have shed light on a planet 22 times the mass of Jupiter, located approximately 10,000 light years from Earth. They reflect on the significance of these findings and the advancements in technology that facilitate such discoveries.
For more Space Nuts, including our continuously updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. (https://www.spacenutspodcast.com/) Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on Facebook, X, YouTube Music Music, Tumblr, Instagram, and TikTok. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favorite platform.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
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Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/31026598?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:03 Hi there and happy new year. Welcome to
00:00:03 --> 00:00:06 a new edition of Space Nuts. My name is
00:00:06 --> 00:00:07 Andrew Dunley, your host. Great to have
00:00:08 --> 00:00:09 your company. Hope you had a great
00:00:09 --> 00:00:10 Christmas and New Year and looking
00:00:10 --> 00:00:13 forward to getting your brain crammed
00:00:13 --> 00:00:16 full of stuff from astronomy and space
00:00:16 --> 00:00:19 science over the next 12 months or so.
00:00:19 --> 00:00:22 Uh coming up in this episode, uh some
00:00:22 --> 00:00:24 really interesting stories. A proposal
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 to develop an expandable space station.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:29 And this is one that you launch and then
00:00:29 --> 00:00:31 you put it out into space and then it
00:00:31 --> 00:00:34 just sort of blows up. Not, you know,
00:00:34 --> 00:00:36 not catastrophically, but uh it it
00:00:36 --> 00:00:38 expands and it'll be bigger than the
00:00:38 --> 00:00:41 International Space Station, apparently.
00:00:41 --> 00:00:45 Strange new caves on Mars will cast an
00:00:46 --> 00:00:48 eye on that. Oh yeah, that's a Think
00:00:48 --> 00:00:51 about it. That's a good joke. And
00:00:51 --> 00:00:53 observations of a rogue planet. We'll
00:00:53 --> 00:00:55 talk about all of that on this New
00:00:55 --> 00:00:57 Year's edition of Space Nuts.
00:00:57 --> 00:01:02 >> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9g
00:01:02 --> 00:01:04 Ignition sequence start.
00:01:04 --> 00:01:05 >> Space nuts.
00:01:05 --> 00:01:07 >> 5 4 3 2
00:01:07 --> 00:01:10 >> 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1
00:01:10 --> 00:01:11 >> Space Nuts.
00:01:11 --> 00:01:14 >> Astronauts report. It feels good.
00:01:14 --> 00:01:16 >> And he's back for more in 2026. His name
00:01:16 --> 00:01:18 is Professor Fred Watson, an astronomer
00:01:18 --> 00:01:20 at large. Hello, Fred.
00:01:20 --> 00:01:22 >> Happy New Year, Andrew. Happy New Year
00:01:22 --> 00:01:24 to you, too. And Mani.
00:01:24 --> 00:01:26 >> Yep. Um Man's out at the moment, but I I
00:01:26 --> 00:01:29 shall pass on your greetings. Um I can't
00:01:29 --> 00:01:31 believe that we're now more than a
00:01:31 --> 00:01:33 quarter of the way through the century.
00:01:33 --> 00:01:34 >> I know.
00:01:34 --> 00:01:36 >> Where did it go?
00:01:36 --> 00:01:40 >> It's just It's just flown. And it
00:01:40 --> 00:01:43 >> And I can't keep up.
00:01:43 --> 00:01:44 >> Well, you're obviously managing cuz
00:01:44 --> 00:01:45 you're still here.
00:01:45 --> 00:01:46 >> I'm still here. Yes.
00:01:46 --> 00:01:47 >> Yes.
00:01:48 --> 00:01:50 >> And um I must be too cuz I'm still here
00:01:50 --> 00:01:50 as well.
00:01:50 --> 00:01:54 >> Yes. Yes, we are. And uh onward and
00:01:54 --> 00:01:55 upward. Did you have a nice Christmas,
00:01:55 --> 00:01:57 New Year, all that? Getting nice
00:01:57 --> 00:01:58 presies.
00:01:58 --> 00:02:02 >> Uh it was great. Yes. Uh the it was a
00:02:02 --> 00:02:05 quiet uh festive season because as you'd
00:02:05 --> 00:02:07 know, we've been everywhere the two
00:02:07 --> 00:02:09 months before.
00:02:09 --> 00:02:11 >> Uh and so we finally found our our feet
00:02:11 --> 00:02:13 again and uh sort of more or less
00:02:13 --> 00:02:15 settled back into into home life. Uh
00:02:16 --> 00:02:19 yeah. Um I might mention the prei that I
00:02:19 --> 00:02:22 that I've been really enjoying and that
00:02:22 --> 00:02:26 is uh it's a it's almost like a dongle.
00:02:26 --> 00:02:31 Uh that plugs into my old iPod. My How
00:02:31 --> 00:02:34 old is it? It's 18 years old now. My
00:02:34 --> 00:02:36 iPod still in perfect working order.
00:02:36 --> 00:02:38 This is a good advert for Apple.
00:02:38 --> 00:02:40 >> Uh but of course it doesn't have
00:02:40 --> 00:02:42 Bluetooth and all it has is a little
00:02:42 --> 00:02:44 audio socket.
00:02:44 --> 00:02:47 >> Yeah. But the dongle, you plug in uh
00:02:47 --> 00:02:49 this small box into the audio socket,
00:02:49 --> 00:02:52 switch it on, and it's live on
00:02:52 --> 00:02:53 Bluetooth.
00:02:53 --> 00:02:56 >> And the sound quality is unbelievable
00:02:56 --> 00:02:58 compared with a straightforward wire to
00:02:58 --> 00:02:59 your headphones.
00:02:59 --> 00:03:00 >> Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that good? It's good
00:03:00 --> 00:03:04 that they can come up with technology to
00:03:04 --> 00:03:06 >> Yeah. make old old technology, old
00:03:06 --> 00:03:10 technology, an iPod work in the in the
00:03:10 --> 00:03:12 modern era. It it's it's really meant
00:03:12 --> 00:03:14 for people getting on airplanes. Yeah.
00:03:14 --> 00:03:16 So, you can you can plug it into the
00:03:16 --> 00:03:19 audio socket on your in your seat back
00:03:19 --> 00:03:21 and um listen on your Bluetooth
00:03:21 --> 00:03:24 headphones. But for me, it's it's just a
00:03:24 --> 00:03:26 joy because the old iPod has got far
00:03:26 --> 00:03:29 more music on it than any other device
00:03:29 --> 00:03:30 that I've got.
00:03:30 --> 00:03:33 >> Yeah. Yeah. I I put all my music on my
00:03:33 --> 00:03:34 um on my phone.
00:03:34 --> 00:03:37 >> Yeah. Except it falls off your phone.
00:03:37 --> 00:03:38 >> Um
00:03:38 --> 00:03:40 >> um mine certainly does. We could talk
00:03:40 --> 00:03:41 about that later.
00:03:41 --> 00:03:43 >> I haven't had that problem, but yes, we
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45 might look into that.
00:03:45 --> 00:03:45 >> Interesting.
00:03:45 --> 00:03:46 >> Falls off.
00:03:46 --> 00:03:48 >> Um, it's it's hard to know what my
00:03:48 --> 00:03:52 favorite gift is, but I think it's um
00:03:52 --> 00:03:55 or might be my rock box. You know how I
00:03:55 --> 00:03:56 steal rocks from different parts of the
00:03:56 --> 00:03:57 world.
00:03:57 --> 00:04:00 >> Yes, you do. Often illegally.
00:04:00 --> 00:04:02 >> Judy's got a display case for me.
00:04:02 --> 00:04:03 >> Oh, fabulous.
00:04:03 --> 00:04:05 >> Yeah. And she she bought me a labeler so
00:04:05 --> 00:04:08 I could put all the names down. So, it's
00:04:08 --> 00:04:10 sitting just over there. I'll next time
00:04:10 --> 00:04:12 I come and show it. Yeah.
00:04:12 --> 00:04:13 >> Yeah. I'll have a look.
00:04:13 --> 00:04:15 >> Some good gear in there.
00:04:15 --> 00:04:16 >> Yeah.
00:04:16 --> 00:04:17 >> Everything from a rock from Mount Etna
00:04:17 --> 00:04:20 to shrapnel from the Western Front.
00:04:20 --> 00:04:20 >> Yeah.
00:04:20 --> 00:04:22 >> Yes. I'll pick up anything.
00:04:22 --> 00:04:24 >> Yeah. I know. I think you've got the old
00:04:24 --> 00:04:25 meteorite in there as well.
00:04:25 --> 00:04:27 >> I might have, you know,
00:04:27 --> 00:04:31 >> from uh Yes. Antner.
00:04:31 --> 00:04:32 >> Yeah. Um
00:04:32 --> 00:04:34 >> uh Yeah, there's a there's a few. Yeah.
00:04:34 --> 00:04:37 I can't remember them all now. Um Oh,
00:04:37 --> 00:04:39 Titi. Mount Titi. Oh yeah, in um
00:04:40 --> 00:04:40 Tennere.
00:04:40 --> 00:04:42 >> Yeah, Tenneref. Yeah.
00:04:42 --> 00:04:45 >> Um shall we get stuck into business
00:04:45 --> 00:04:47 because you know we could talk about our
00:04:47 --> 00:04:48 Christmas presents all day.
00:04:48 --> 00:04:50 >> Oh god, aren't we pathetic?
00:04:50 --> 00:04:52 >> I do apologize to the audience. This is
00:04:52 --> 00:04:54 what comes of being just adequate
00:04:54 --> 00:04:55 really, isn't it?
00:04:55 --> 00:04:57 >> We're just being old and dodgy. That's
00:04:57 --> 00:04:59 what that's what it is.
00:04:59 --> 00:05:02 >> Uh let's talk about this proposal to
00:05:02 --> 00:05:04 develop an expandable space station.
00:05:04 --> 00:05:06 This this looks like something out of a
00:05:06 --> 00:05:08 science fiction movie when you look at
00:05:08 --> 00:05:11 the images. Um, obviously they're
00:05:11 --> 00:05:13 artistic impressions because they
00:05:13 --> 00:05:14 haven't actually launched this thing
00:05:14 --> 00:05:16 yet. But the idea behind it, and they're
00:05:16 --> 00:05:17 talking about putting it up sometime
00:05:17 --> 00:05:21 next year as a as a as a test case, but
00:05:21 --> 00:05:24 you you take it on a um on a rocket, let
00:05:24 --> 00:05:27 it out, and then it it just expands out
00:05:28 --> 00:05:29 into the space you want. You can do
00:05:29 --> 00:05:31 whatever you like with it.
00:05:31 --> 00:05:34 It's uh it's I think you know we're
00:05:34 --> 00:05:37 seeing the future here Andrew. Um and at
00:05:37 --> 00:05:38 the same time we're looking into the
00:05:38 --> 00:05:41 past because in the early 2000s uh
00:05:41 --> 00:05:44 company called Bigalow Aerospace uh
00:05:44 --> 00:05:46 thank you for reminding me of that name
00:05:46 --> 00:05:48 10 minutes ago because I couldn't
00:05:48 --> 00:05:51 remember it. Uh Bigalow Aerospace which
00:05:51 --> 00:05:54 actually is the same company that owned
00:05:54 --> 00:05:56 a chain of hotels and motel I think in
00:05:56 --> 00:05:59 the USA. But they pioneered the idea of
00:05:59 --> 00:06:02 uh of inflatable spacecraft. Um and I've
00:06:02 --> 00:06:03 forgotten what the name of the
00:06:03 --> 00:06:05 spacecraft were. They had two which were
00:06:05 --> 00:06:09 both launched. Uh and one uh one of them
00:06:09 --> 00:06:12 had it was full of photographs of people
00:06:12 --> 00:06:15 who'd sent their photographs to be um
00:06:15 --> 00:06:18 put inside this inflatable
00:06:18 --> 00:06:20 module. And so they were floating around
00:06:20 --> 00:06:22 in weightlessness. They had a camera
00:06:22 --> 00:06:23 looking at everybody's picture going
00:06:23 --> 00:06:25 past. Yours might have been one of them
00:06:25 --> 00:06:25 actually.
00:06:26 --> 00:06:28 >> Yeah. I I can't remember if I was that
00:06:28 --> 00:06:30 one or something else.
00:06:30 --> 00:06:30 >> Um
00:06:30 --> 00:06:32 >> it was something like Merlin or Hermes
00:06:32 --> 00:06:33 or something like I can't remember what
00:06:34 --> 00:06:34 it was.
00:06:34 --> 00:06:34 >> Right.
00:06:34 --> 00:06:36 >> Anyway, but there were two of them and
00:06:36 --> 00:06:39 they demonstrated pretty successfully
00:06:39 --> 00:06:42 that uh an inflatable spacecraft is a
00:06:42 --> 00:06:44 viable proposition. And you know, you
00:06:44 --> 00:06:45 might think, oh my god, what happens
00:06:45 --> 00:06:48 when you get a micrometeorite? Uh but it
00:06:48 --> 00:06:51 turns out that you can put you know
00:06:51 --> 00:06:53 various fabrics the sort of stuff that
00:06:53 --> 00:06:57 you put in bulletproof vests uh you can
00:06:57 --> 00:06:58 you can actually layer the fabrics that
00:06:58 --> 00:07:01 you use in the inflatable module so that
00:07:01 --> 00:07:04 it will be moderately resistant to
00:07:04 --> 00:07:05 micrometeorites.
00:07:05 --> 00:07:08 Uh and uh and that I think might have
00:07:08 --> 00:07:12 been what sparked this new idea. I'm not
00:07:12 --> 00:07:14 sure whether the new proposal owes
00:07:14 --> 00:07:16 anything to Bigalow Aerospace. It might
00:07:16 --> 00:07:17 be the same company with a different
00:07:17 --> 00:07:20 name. It's a company. Sorry, go ahead.
00:07:20 --> 00:07:22 >> No, it could be. I was just Yeah.
00:07:22 --> 00:07:26 Company called Max Space. Uh, and
00:07:26 --> 00:07:28 basically they've unveiled something uh
00:07:28 --> 00:07:30 a proposal which is called the
00:07:30 --> 00:07:33 Thunderbird Station. Love the name. Uh,
00:07:33 --> 00:07:35 which has been announced within the last
00:07:35 --> 00:07:37 week or so. And it's it's a large
00:07:37 --> 00:07:40 inflatable habitat uh that's got much
00:07:40 --> 00:07:43 more internal volume than your typical
00:07:43 --> 00:07:46 thing that you launch that is rigid. In
00:07:46 --> 00:07:49 fact, I think it's uh it's
00:07:49 --> 00:07:52 I can't remember the exact dimensions,
00:07:52 --> 00:07:54 but it's it's uh something like three
00:07:54 --> 00:07:58 times the volume of a standard uh ISS
00:07:58 --> 00:08:01 module, one of the uh the modules that
00:08:01 --> 00:08:04 goes to build up the International Space
00:08:04 --> 00:08:06 Station. So, uh, the the the main factor
00:08:06 --> 00:08:09 is it's it it's launched in a compact
00:08:09 --> 00:08:12 form, but it expands to 20 times its
00:08:12 --> 00:08:14 launch volume once it's in orbit. And
00:08:14 --> 00:08:15 you don't need to assemble it. You press
00:08:16 --> 00:08:18 a button and there's a hiss, I guess,
00:08:18 --> 00:08:20 and there it goes. You've got your
00:08:20 --> 00:08:23 inflatable module. And so, uh, there is
00:08:23 --> 00:08:26 a flight being planned uh, on a SpaceX
00:08:26 --> 00:08:28 ride share mission, as you said, next
00:08:28 --> 00:08:31 year uh, in which we might see a test
00:08:31 --> 00:08:34 version of one of these. uh their their
00:08:34 --> 00:08:36 so-called mission evolution flight to
00:08:36 --> 00:08:39 validate the on-orbit deployment uh of
00:08:39 --> 00:08:42 the module and and actually test its uh
00:08:42 --> 00:08:44 you know how resilient it is to uh
00:08:44 --> 00:08:48 micrometeoroid impact. So interesting
00:08:48 --> 00:08:50 stuff. Yeah, it is. Uh, and this is
00:08:50 --> 00:08:53 probably just the beginning of of
00:08:53 --> 00:08:57 a potential new way of of dealing with
00:08:57 --> 00:09:00 space tourism because at the moment you
00:09:00 --> 00:09:01 can go up and do a little bit of um
00:09:02 --> 00:09:03 floating around and then come back down
00:09:03 --> 00:09:05 again. You don't get a heck of a long
00:09:05 --> 00:09:08 time up there and it cost you a fortune.
00:09:08 --> 00:09:10 >> Yeah. Yeah. U but but this could take it
00:09:10 --> 00:09:13 to a whole new level. And I think that
00:09:13 --> 00:09:16 was the motivation behind Bigalow's uh
00:09:16 --> 00:09:18 ventures earlier in the dec earlier in
00:09:18 --> 00:09:22 the century. So uh yeah uh but it
00:09:22 --> 00:09:25 clearly you know it clearly has merit um
00:09:25 --> 00:09:27 if you can make it with the right degree
00:09:27 --> 00:09:31 of protection you are finding a cheap
00:09:31 --> 00:09:34 way of getting large volumes into space.
00:09:34 --> 00:09:36 Of course, the downside of that for
00:09:36 --> 00:09:38 astronomers is that these things being
00:09:38 --> 00:09:41 big are going to be much more reflective
00:09:41 --> 00:09:43 than your average spacecraft.
00:09:43 --> 00:09:46 >> Yeah, I've got a scenario in my head.
00:09:46 --> 00:09:48 Oh, look. I I think I found planet not
00:09:48 --> 00:09:49 Oh, what's that? No,
00:09:49 --> 00:09:51 >> it's Thunderbird
00:09:51 --> 00:09:52 >> got in the way.
00:09:52 --> 00:09:55 >> Yeah, that's exactly it. That you've got
00:09:55 --> 00:09:58 um you know, you've got uh satellite
00:09:58 --> 00:10:00 trails basically interrupting your
00:10:00 --> 00:10:01 observations. Yeah, we we're already
00:10:02 --> 00:10:04 seeing it with uh with Starlink in a big
00:10:04 --> 00:10:06 way with something like I think it's
00:10:06 --> 00:10:09 8 now that are operational. Uh and
00:10:09 --> 00:10:12 um that's going to go up to 12
00:10:12 --> 00:10:15 probably by the end of the decade uh and
00:10:15 --> 00:10:18 maybe more in the next decade. Um what I
00:10:18 --> 00:10:21 guess the the the Max Space project has
00:10:21 --> 00:10:23 in its favor is that these won't be
00:10:23 --> 00:10:26 launched 20 at a time like
00:10:26 --> 00:10:28 >> uh like the Starink satellites are
00:10:28 --> 00:10:29 because you won't need that many of
00:10:29 --> 00:10:31 them. So they'll be probably more like
00:10:31 --> 00:10:34 in terms of space rarity more more akin
00:10:34 --> 00:10:36 to the international space station
00:10:36 --> 00:10:37 although I'm sure the plan is to have
00:10:37 --> 00:10:40 many of them uh but perhaps not hundreds
00:10:40 --> 00:10:43 or thousands uh enough to satisfy the
00:10:43 --> 00:10:44 needs of people wanting to put
00:10:44 --> 00:10:47 experiments into microgravity.
00:10:47 --> 00:10:49 >> Yeah. And as I understand it, that
00:10:49 --> 00:10:53 original idea from Bigalow Aerospace uh
00:10:53 --> 00:10:55 was looking at commercial
00:10:56 --> 00:10:59 space stations and uh smaller stations
00:10:59 --> 00:11:03 for for other purposes. Um and I think I
00:11:03 --> 00:11:04 found some of the names. They had one
00:11:04 --> 00:11:05 named Nautilus.
00:11:06 --> 00:11:06 >> Okay.
00:11:06 --> 00:11:09 >> Um there was space complex alpha.
00:11:09 --> 00:11:12 >> Space Complex Bravo and another one
00:11:12 --> 00:11:14 called Skywalker.
00:11:14 --> 00:11:15 >> Apparently
00:11:15 --> 00:11:18 >> none of which ring any bells. No,
00:11:18 --> 00:11:20 didn't remind me of anything either. But
00:11:20 --> 00:11:21 um
00:11:21 --> 00:11:21 >> yeah,
00:11:21 --> 00:11:24 >> this is probably, you know, a a step
00:11:24 --> 00:11:25 towards
00:11:25 --> 00:11:28 um better ways of putting hardware into
00:11:28 --> 00:11:29 space.
00:11:29 --> 00:11:31 >> But I don't doubt that the day will
00:11:31 --> 00:11:34 come, Fred, where you'll be able to
00:11:34 --> 00:11:37 launch a purpose-built space station
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39 which will rotate and give you gravity
00:11:39 --> 00:11:40 and you'll be able to spend a couple of
00:11:40 --> 00:11:42 weeks up there just, you know, giving
00:11:42 --> 00:11:44 the rest of the planet the bird or
00:11:44 --> 00:11:46 whatever it is you do when you go up. I
00:11:46 --> 00:11:47 don't know what you do when you get out
00:11:47 --> 00:11:49 there. You know, you float
00:11:50 --> 00:11:50 >> and
00:11:50 --> 00:11:52 >> I'm sure you do. Yes. At the moment. Um,
00:11:52 --> 00:11:55 so I think I saw I've seen so many
00:11:55 --> 00:11:57 headlines over the holiday break, but I
00:11:57 --> 00:11:59 think I saw one. Was it a Chinese or
00:12:00 --> 00:12:02 maybe a Russian uh mission being planned
00:12:02 --> 00:12:05 which would have an artificial gravity
00:12:05 --> 00:12:07 system. So something that will rotate
00:12:07 --> 00:12:09 about an axis to give you artificial
00:12:09 --> 00:12:12 gravity, which we know will work. And as
00:12:12 --> 00:12:15 I've mentioned before, um, uh, Tom
00:12:15 --> 00:12:17 Spilker, who is married to Linda Spiler,
00:12:17 --> 00:12:20 the, uh, the great Cassini mission
00:12:20 --> 00:12:24 scientist and, uh, and Saturn, uh,
00:12:24 --> 00:12:26 scientist. She's, I think she's still
00:12:26 --> 00:12:28 working on uh, on some of the missions
00:12:28 --> 00:12:30 designed to go and look at Titan or
00:12:30 --> 00:12:33 Enceladus, uh, those moons of Saturn. uh
00:12:33 --> 00:12:35 her husband is uh somebody who
00:12:35 --> 00:12:37 specializes in designing artificial
00:12:37 --> 00:12:39 gravity systems for orbit and I think
00:12:39 --> 00:12:41 he's worked with NASA and so we might
00:12:41 --> 00:12:44 see something popping up out of their
00:12:44 --> 00:12:45 media pages sometime down the track as
00:12:45 --> 00:12:46 well.
00:12:46 --> 00:12:47 >> That would be interesting. Yeah. Uh it's
00:12:48 --> 00:12:50 only a matter of time before we we get
00:12:50 --> 00:12:52 there. And
00:12:52 --> 00:12:54 >> yeah, this this sounds amazing. And it
00:12:54 --> 00:12:56 it reminds me of um those pop-up
00:12:56 --> 00:12:59 caravans, you know, we
00:12:59 --> 00:13:01 they were invented a long time ago, but
00:13:01 --> 00:13:02 you you go and park your caravan, push a
00:13:02 --> 00:13:04 button, and the whole thing opens up
00:13:04 --> 00:13:07 >> and there you are. You suddenly got more
00:13:07 --> 00:13:08 space. And that that's more or less what
00:13:08 --> 00:13:11 this is about. And you can
00:13:11 --> 00:13:15 >> configure it to whatever needs arise. So
00:13:15 --> 00:13:17 it doesn't it's it's it's a one
00:13:17 --> 00:13:18 sizefits-all, but what you do on the
00:13:18 --> 00:13:21 inside's up to you by the sound of it.
00:13:21 --> 00:13:23 >> Yeah, that's right. Yes. So you and
00:13:23 --> 00:13:24 that's kind of what you want. It's just
00:13:24 --> 00:13:26 like a you know an office block where
00:13:26 --> 00:13:29 you um you rent out the space and your
00:13:29 --> 00:13:31 clients take whatever they need to
00:13:31 --> 00:13:35 >> do their work laboratories or
00:13:35 --> 00:13:38 >> engineering centers or offices whatever.
00:13:38 --> 00:13:40 >> Yeah. So um we will look forward to that
00:13:40 --> 00:13:45 uh test flight in early 2027 from Max
00:13:45 --> 00:13:47 Space. If you want to read all about it,
00:13:47 --> 00:13:48 you can do so on
00:13:48 --> 00:13:51 spaceconnectline.com.au.
00:13:51 --> 00:13:53 AU. Uh, this is Space Nuts with Andrew
00:13:54 --> 00:13:57 Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.
00:13:57 --> 00:13:59 Let's take a break from the show to tell
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00:15:41 --> 00:15:43 >> Okay, we checked all four systems and
00:15:43 --> 00:15:44 being with the girls
00:15:44 --> 00:15:45 >> space nets.
00:15:45 --> 00:15:48 >> Now, Fred, more and more news keeps
00:15:48 --> 00:15:52 coming out of Mars and this is quite an
00:15:52 --> 00:15:54 incredible discovery. They have found
00:15:54 --> 00:15:58 caves unlike any found on the planet
00:15:58 --> 00:16:00 before. And we've got the same kinds of
00:16:00 --> 00:16:05 caves on Earth. Uh that's correct. Uh I
00:16:05 --> 00:16:07 I thought you'd like this story cuz
00:16:07 --> 00:16:08 you're a Mars
00:16:08 --> 00:16:09 >> aicionado
00:16:09 --> 00:16:13 a Mars tragic. So the the scientific
00:16:13 --> 00:16:16 paper which is published uh this week I
00:16:16 --> 00:16:19 think in the astrophysical journal
00:16:19 --> 00:16:22 letters which is uh one of the major uh
00:16:22 --> 00:16:23 astronomy journals and space science
00:16:24 --> 00:16:26 journals in the world. Uh and the the
00:16:26 --> 00:16:29 paper which is by I think entirely
00:16:29 --> 00:16:32 Chinese authors. Um not sure maybe maybe
00:16:32 --> 00:16:34 there are other nationalities in there
00:16:34 --> 00:16:37 but principally Chinese authors. It's
00:16:37 --> 00:16:39 called water-driven accessible potential
00:16:40 --> 00:16:44 castic caves in Hebbrris valleys Mars
00:16:44 --> 00:16:46 and the subtitle is implications for
00:16:46 --> 00:16:49 subsurface habitability.
00:16:49 --> 00:16:51 Uh in other words, could living
00:16:51 --> 00:16:53 organisms be found in these in these
00:16:53 --> 00:16:56 caves or evidence of there having been
00:16:56 --> 00:16:58 living organisms? So what what these
00:16:58 --> 00:17:01 scientists have done is and you know
00:17:01 --> 00:17:05 this again is a beautiful illustration
00:17:05 --> 00:17:06 of the fact that we've got so much
00:17:06 --> 00:17:09 archival data now not just on the
00:17:09 --> 00:17:11 universe at large but on the planets as
00:17:11 --> 00:17:13 well. Uh what they've done is they've
00:17:13 --> 00:17:18 basically surveyed uh um spaceorn
00:17:18 --> 00:17:23 photographs of Mars um by
00:17:23 --> 00:17:25 using data from various spacecraft. I'm
00:17:25 --> 00:17:28 sure they've used uh uh you know the the
00:17:28 --> 00:17:32 high-rise camera uh on on um the um one
00:17:32 --> 00:17:35 of the the Mars um orbiters. Mars Global
00:17:35 --> 00:17:37 Surveyor is an older orbiter that they
00:17:37 --> 00:17:42 used uh data from. So uh these uh
00:17:42 --> 00:17:45 spacecraft have got a huge wealth of of
00:17:45 --> 00:17:47 information about the planet surface
00:17:47 --> 00:17:49 which has not all been trolled through.
00:17:49 --> 00:17:50 Yeah. You know, we're still seeing
00:17:50 --> 00:17:53 images that uh that have probably not
00:17:53 --> 00:17:56 really been examined before. Uh and what
00:17:56 --> 00:17:58 they've done uh with these data is
00:17:58 --> 00:18:01 looked at uh a region called Hebris
00:18:02 --> 00:18:04 Valley, Hebris Valley, I guess you'd
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07 translate it as, uh which is in Mars's
00:18:07 --> 00:18:11 northwest. Uh so it's it's very much in
00:18:11 --> 00:18:13 the region of Mars that is less
00:18:14 --> 00:18:16 mountainous. Uh the the southern
00:18:16 --> 00:18:18 hemisphere of Mars, as we've talked
00:18:18 --> 00:18:20 about many times before, is mountainous.
00:18:20 --> 00:18:23 It's many covered in craters. the the
00:18:23 --> 00:18:25 northern hemisphere is much flatter,
00:18:25 --> 00:18:27 much many fewer craters and at a lower
00:18:27 --> 00:18:29 level. I think it's about 3 kilometers
00:18:29 --> 00:18:31 on average lower than the lower than the
00:18:31 --> 00:18:33 um southern hemisphere. That's something
00:18:33 --> 00:18:35 called the Martian dichotomy, by the
00:18:35 --> 00:18:37 way. Uh so uh what they've done is
00:18:37 --> 00:18:41 they've looked at uh what look like pits
00:18:42 --> 00:18:45 uh in in the um in the uh in the
00:18:45 --> 00:18:50 landscape. Uh, and that's not that
00:18:50 --> 00:18:52 unusual to find things like that because
00:18:52 --> 00:18:56 we know of many features that uh sort of
00:18:56 --> 00:19:00 speak of as being I mean the the they
00:19:00 --> 00:19:02 don't speak but they um you know what
00:19:02 --> 00:19:05 you see tells you that they are probably
00:19:05 --> 00:19:08 lava tubes. They're probably uh you know
00:19:08 --> 00:19:10 places which we have here on Earth as
00:19:10 --> 00:19:12 well. I think you and I have both walked
00:19:12 --> 00:19:15 through lava tubes in Hawaii. Yeah. um
00:19:15 --> 00:19:17 which are like long caves where the lava
00:19:17 --> 00:19:20 was flowing and gradually dried out and
00:19:20 --> 00:19:21 uh you're left with a you're left with a
00:19:21 --> 00:19:24 long cave. So these are quite different.
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27 The newly discovered ones uh are they're
00:19:27 --> 00:19:29 what are called skylights. So that tells
00:19:29 --> 00:19:32 you that they are openings in the roof
00:19:32 --> 00:19:36 of caverns. But the structure of them
00:19:36 --> 00:19:38 and the sort of features around them and
00:19:38 --> 00:19:41 the landscape that they're in uh
00:19:41 --> 00:19:45 suggests that these are not lava tubes
00:19:45 --> 00:19:47 because that's sedimentary rock that
00:19:47 --> 00:19:49 they're in. It's not it's not volcanic
00:19:49 --> 00:19:53 rock. Um so there's uh some of the data
00:19:53 --> 00:19:55 that they've looked at shows in the
00:19:55 --> 00:19:58 surrounding rock uh around these caves
00:19:58 --> 00:20:01 carbonates and sulfates. Uh and so
00:20:01 --> 00:20:05 that's uh basically a a water, you know,
00:20:05 --> 00:20:07 a water-driven rock or a water formed
00:20:07 --> 00:20:11 rock. Uh and um they're they're
00:20:11 --> 00:20:14 suggesting that what you're seeing is
00:20:14 --> 00:20:16 caves that are formed by water
00:20:16 --> 00:20:18 underneath the surface flowing and
00:20:18 --> 00:20:21 dissolving the bedrock. And that's what
00:20:21 --> 00:20:24 we on Earth call topography. uh hence
00:20:24 --> 00:20:27 casting your mind forward or backwards
00:20:27 --> 00:20:29 or whatever you said at the beginning
00:20:29 --> 00:20:32 Andrew. Um so it's a you know that that
00:20:32 --> 00:20:35 gives you a landscape that's punctuated
00:20:35 --> 00:20:39 often by giant sink holes
00:20:39 --> 00:20:41 >> uh which is a bit um bit topical at the
00:20:41 --> 00:20:42 moment because there's they've just got
00:20:42 --> 00:20:44 one in Melbourne that's probably to do
00:20:44 --> 00:20:47 with tunnels being dug. Uh it's a big
00:20:47 --> 00:20:49 sinkhole in a sports oval that has not
00:20:49 --> 00:20:53 become popular. It's 8 m across. Uh I
00:20:53 --> 00:20:54 don't think that's anything to do with
00:20:54 --> 00:20:56 water-soluble rock but uh probably more
00:20:56 --> 00:20:59 like might be tunneling. Don't know.
00:20:59 --> 00:21:01 Anyway, uh cast scenery generally on
00:21:01 --> 00:21:04 Earth uh is is this lime within
00:21:04 --> 00:21:06 limestone regions and there are places
00:21:06 --> 00:21:08 like that in the United Kingdom not very
00:21:08 --> 00:21:09 far from where I grew up
00:21:09 --> 00:21:10 >> and Mexico. They have
00:21:10 --> 00:21:14 >> Mexico indeed. Uh Slovenia has the most
00:21:14 --> 00:21:18 wonderful system of cast uh caves uh
00:21:18 --> 00:21:20 which I had the pleasure to go and
00:21:20 --> 00:21:22 explore with a colleague from University
00:21:22 --> 00:21:24 of Ljubljana a few years ago.
00:21:24 --> 00:21:27 Sensational stuff. If we find the same
00:21:27 --> 00:21:29 thing on Mars um that is going to be
00:21:29 --> 00:21:31 remarkable. But the point that the
00:21:31 --> 00:21:34 authors of this paper are making uh is
00:21:34 --> 00:21:37 that um that might provide a suitable
00:21:37 --> 00:21:40 habitat, suitable environment for
00:21:40 --> 00:21:42 microorganisms because you're protected
00:21:42 --> 00:21:46 from the radiation of the um uh from the
00:21:46 --> 00:21:49 sun, the particle and ultraviolet
00:21:49 --> 00:21:51 radiation. Uh and you know it could be
00:21:52 --> 00:21:55 that living organisms have found their
00:21:55 --> 00:21:57 uh a place where they could evolve and
00:21:57 --> 00:21:59 develop. So there might be evidence of
00:21:59 --> 00:22:01 microbial life there, which suggests
00:22:01 --> 00:22:03 that this part of Mars' surface might be
00:22:04 --> 00:22:06 a good place to send a rover. And I
00:22:06 --> 00:22:07 think that's the bottom line of their
00:22:08 --> 00:22:08 article.
00:22:08 --> 00:22:11 >> Yeah. U I've thought of a name for it.
00:22:11 --> 00:22:12 If they want to send a rover down, they
00:22:12 --> 00:22:16 could call it Spelunka.
00:22:16 --> 00:22:20 >> Call it what? Spelunk, isn't it? Isn't
00:22:20 --> 00:22:21 it called spelunking when you go down
00:22:21 --> 00:22:24 caves? And my Oh, well because of
00:22:24 --> 00:22:25 speliology.
00:22:25 --> 00:22:26 >> Yeah. Yeah,
00:22:26 --> 00:22:27 >> it's spelunking. They could call it
00:22:27 --> 00:22:28 spelanka.
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 >> Oh, I like that. Yes.
00:22:30 --> 00:22:33 >> Ah, yes. Sorry, that went over my head.
00:22:33 --> 00:22:35 >> That's okay.
00:22:35 --> 00:22:36 >> Actually, I learned that word when we
00:22:36 --> 00:22:38 visited Hawaii and they told us how
00:22:38 --> 00:22:40 people, you know, go
00:22:40 --> 00:22:43 >> traveling down lava tubes. Not the
00:22:43 --> 00:22:45 tourist ones with the electric lights in
00:22:45 --> 00:22:47 them, but actual,
00:22:47 --> 00:22:49 >> you know, uncharted ones or ones that
00:22:49 --> 00:22:51 they know about that and and then they
00:22:51 --> 00:22:52 just like it's like mountain climbing,
00:22:52 --> 00:22:53 but the opposite.
00:22:53 --> 00:22:54 >> Yes.
00:22:54 --> 00:22:56 >> Yeah. that you can get into all kinds of
00:22:56 --> 00:22:56 trouble.
00:22:56 --> 00:22:57 >> Oh, yes, you can.
00:22:57 --> 00:23:00 >> Especially with underground uh river
00:23:00 --> 00:23:01 systems and things of that sort.
00:23:01 --> 00:23:02 >> Yeah.
00:23:02 --> 00:23:04 >> It doesn't float my boat, I have to say.
00:23:04 --> 00:23:06 Uh the idea of climbing into a cave with
00:23:06 --> 00:23:07 a
00:23:07 --> 00:23:11 >> with a not a snorkel, but a you know,
00:23:11 --> 00:23:13 basically breathing apparatus. No, it's
00:23:13 --> 00:23:16 been a couple of famous cases over the
00:23:16 --> 00:23:18 years of people who didn't come back
00:23:18 --> 00:23:20 because it they got themselves into
00:23:20 --> 00:23:23 difficult situations and uh and it is
00:23:23 --> 00:23:25 really dangerous thing to do. But um
00:23:25 --> 00:23:27 what what's another interesting thing
00:23:27 --> 00:23:29 about these caves is they're they're
00:23:30 --> 00:23:31 enormous.
00:23:31 --> 00:23:34 >> Yes, that's right. Uh they're not
00:23:34 --> 00:23:36 they're not small. Um and uh you know
00:23:36 --> 00:23:41 they they've it it's I guess again it to
00:23:41 --> 00:23:43 use a metaphor it speaks loudly of the
00:23:43 --> 00:23:46 of the volumes of water that must have
00:23:46 --> 00:23:50 have basically flowed down them uh in
00:23:50 --> 00:23:53 the in the millennia ago when they were
00:23:53 --> 00:23:55 being formed because I guess we're you
00:23:55 --> 00:23:59 know we're we're seeing evidence of of
00:23:59 --> 00:24:01 water-driven erosion and we know that
00:24:01 --> 00:24:03 perhaps three and a half to four billion
00:24:03 --> 00:24:07 years ago So Mars was wet but isn't now.
00:24:07 --> 00:24:08 So we're looking at very ancient water
00:24:08 --> 00:24:11 flows. But yes, it it says that there
00:24:11 --> 00:24:12 must have been a lot of water there. It
00:24:12 --> 00:24:15 is it's a remarkable piece of work. Um I
00:24:15 --> 00:24:18 haven't looked at the uh the original
00:24:18 --> 00:24:21 paper in great detail, but will do
00:24:21 --> 00:24:23 because uh it's such an interesting
00:24:23 --> 00:24:25 topic and they've done a lot of very
00:24:25 --> 00:24:26 careful work on this.
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 >> Yeah. Um some of some of these uh cave
00:24:29 --> 00:24:32 openings are over 700 m wide. Yeah.
00:24:32 --> 00:24:34 >> Which is extraordinary. 350 m seems to
00:24:34 --> 00:24:37 be a common number, but some of them are
00:24:37 --> 00:24:39 um almost double that or over double
00:24:39 --> 00:24:40 that.
00:24:40 --> 00:24:42 >> It Yeah. So, it sort of makes you wonder
00:24:42 --> 00:24:44 why we haven't really seen these things
00:24:44 --> 00:24:48 before. I I suspect what uh has allowed
00:24:48 --> 00:24:50 um these uh authors to make the
00:24:50 --> 00:24:52 deductions that they have is because
00:24:52 --> 00:24:55 they've used many spacecraft um
00:24:55 --> 00:24:57 high-rise as I mentioned the high
00:24:57 --> 00:24:59 resolution camera on Mars Reconnaissance
00:24:59 --> 00:25:02 Orbiter and the Mars global surveyor.
00:25:02 --> 00:25:04 These these spacecraft have basically
00:25:04 --> 00:25:07 given given you different angles on the
00:25:07 --> 00:25:11 same features on the surface and um seen
00:25:11 --> 00:25:13 the surface under different lighting
00:25:13 --> 00:25:15 conditions. So when you when you take
00:25:15 --> 00:25:18 all that information uh together, that's
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20 when you can start looking effectively
00:25:20 --> 00:25:22 at three-dimensional views of what these
00:25:22 --> 00:25:24 what these dark spludges on the surface
00:25:24 --> 00:25:26 mean. They're dark because you're
00:25:26 --> 00:25:28 looking down into a into a cave. And
00:25:28 --> 00:25:29 yes, you're absolutely right with uh
00:25:30 --> 00:25:32 things that are, you know, hundreds of
00:25:32 --> 00:25:34 meters across. They're not small.
00:25:34 --> 00:25:39 >> Here's a question. How would they go as
00:25:39 --> 00:25:42 potential future human habitat?
00:25:42 --> 00:25:44 >> Uh I think that would be very much on
00:25:44 --> 00:25:50 the agenda, too. um just because you uh
00:25:50 --> 00:25:55 you really want to find if you can uh a
00:25:55 --> 00:25:57 region of Mars's surface that protects
00:25:57 --> 00:26:01 you from the environment which is very
00:26:01 --> 00:26:03 very inhospitable not just because the
00:26:03 --> 00:26:06 atmosphere is only 6% of the earth's
00:26:06 --> 00:26:09 atmospheric pressure but simply simply
00:26:09 --> 00:26:11 because of the radiation uh the fact
00:26:11 --> 00:26:13 that there's no magnetic field on Mars
00:26:13 --> 00:26:15 to protect you from that uh and that
00:26:15 --> 00:26:17 sort of that sort of thing, the the UV
00:26:17 --> 00:26:19 radiation from the sun. So, people have
00:26:19 --> 00:26:21 certainly suggested the lava tubes as
00:26:21 --> 00:26:23 future human habitats, but these might
00:26:23 --> 00:26:27 be even more appropriate um being, as we
00:26:27 --> 00:26:30 say, they're very large and uh and
00:26:30 --> 00:26:33 probably um you know, environments that
00:26:33 --> 00:26:35 would lend themselves to to perhaps
00:26:35 --> 00:26:37 building a structure inside
00:26:37 --> 00:26:40 >> uh that would allow you to work in
00:26:40 --> 00:26:42 normal atmospheric pressure. I suppose
00:26:42 --> 00:26:45 the question becomes one of whether or
00:26:45 --> 00:26:49 not that's a part of Mars where we, you
00:26:49 --> 00:26:51 know, there's an advantage being there.
00:26:51 --> 00:26:54 I mean, you it might be a great cave to
00:26:54 --> 00:26:56 put a dwelling in, but you
00:26:56 --> 00:26:58 >> if it's nowhere near anywhere you need
00:26:58 --> 00:26:59 to be,
00:26:59 --> 00:27:02 >> but but if it's also a place where there
00:27:02 --> 00:27:05 may have been microbial life there, uh
00:27:05 --> 00:27:07 it is going to be a place of interest.
00:27:07 --> 00:27:08 And of course, you'd want to make sure
00:27:08 --> 00:27:10 that you're not building your
00:27:10 --> 00:27:13 >> your in underground dwelling on some
00:27:13 --> 00:27:17 poor animals habitat even if the animal
00:27:17 --> 00:27:19 itself is long gone. And again that
00:27:19 --> 00:27:21 comes back to some of the eth ethical
00:27:21 --> 00:27:23 considerations in regard to the
00:27:23 --> 00:27:25 exploration of Mars.
00:27:25 --> 00:27:27 >> Yes. Yes. Well, we maybe we should talk
00:27:27 --> 00:27:30 to Elon Musk about um habitats on Mars
00:27:30 --> 00:27:32 and
00:27:32 --> 00:27:33 human ethics.
00:27:34 --> 00:27:35 >> I'm not I'm not going to buy into that
00:27:35 --> 00:27:37 one.
00:27:37 --> 00:27:39 >> I'm going to get you one day.
00:27:39 --> 00:27:39 >> Yeah.
00:27:39 --> 00:27:41 >> Oh, yes. It's a great story. If you want
00:27:41 --> 00:27:43 to read about it, you can do that at the
00:27:43 --> 00:27:45 daily galaxy.com website or you can read
00:27:46 --> 00:27:48 the paper in the astrophysical journal
00:27:48 --> 00:27:50 letters. This is Spacenuts. Andrew
00:27:50 --> 00:27:54 Dunley here with Professor Fred Watson.
00:27:54 --> 00:27:55 Let's take a break from the show to tell
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00:29:16 --> 00:29:18 nuts at the checkout.
00:29:18 --> 00:29:20 >> G and I feel
00:29:20 --> 00:29:21 >> space nuts.
00:29:21 --> 00:29:23 >> Our final story, Fred, takes us to
00:29:23 --> 00:29:27 another planet, um, which is a little
00:29:27 --> 00:29:29 unusual. We've spoken about rogue
00:29:29 --> 00:29:33 planets before, but now we've got, uh, I
00:29:33 --> 00:29:35 believe observations of a rogue planet.
00:29:35 --> 00:29:36 Now, these things are hard to spot
00:29:36 --> 00:29:38 because they don't orbit a star. They're
00:29:38 --> 00:29:39 just floating out there like a space
00:29:39 --> 00:29:41 station
00:29:41 --> 00:29:44 um and turning up who knows where, but
00:29:44 --> 00:29:46 um apparently they've they've observed
00:29:46 --> 00:29:50 one. Uh yes, in a in a new way. uh and
00:29:50 --> 00:29:53 that's cuz I think that these things are
00:29:53 --> 00:29:55 relatively common place in terms of
00:29:55 --> 00:29:59 being found um on particularly on
00:29:59 --> 00:30:02 surveys looking at what's called
00:30:02 --> 00:30:05 gravitational microlensing
00:30:05 --> 00:30:06 uh because that's really the only way to
00:30:06 --> 00:30:09 find them because exactly as you've said
00:30:09 --> 00:30:11 they are not illuminated by a parent
00:30:11 --> 00:30:14 star. I always think rogue planet is a
00:30:14 --> 00:30:17 slightly um you know it's it's an
00:30:17 --> 00:30:19 uncomplentary name. I think orphan
00:30:19 --> 00:30:21 planet's a nicer one because we think
00:30:21 --> 00:30:22 some of these are orphans in the sense
00:30:22 --> 00:30:25 that they've been booted out of their um
00:30:25 --> 00:30:27 parent solar system by gravitational
00:30:27 --> 00:30:30 interactions. But as you say, they are
00:30:30 --> 00:30:32 dark. They're not illuminated by their
00:30:32 --> 00:30:35 parent star. They do um have very low
00:30:35 --> 00:30:37 levels of infrared radiation because
00:30:37 --> 00:30:40 there are as with as with the earth and
00:30:40 --> 00:30:42 and the planets of the solar system,
00:30:42 --> 00:30:43 there are sort of low-level nuclear
00:30:44 --> 00:30:46 processes going on inside. That means
00:30:46 --> 00:30:48 the planet is radiating its own heat to
00:30:48 --> 00:30:51 some extent. Uh I think if I remember
00:30:51 --> 00:30:53 rightly Jupiter radiates 1.8 times as
00:30:53 --> 00:30:56 much uh energy as it receives from the
00:30:56 --> 00:30:58 sun. I think that's the figure uh
00:30:58 --> 00:30:59 because of the nuclear processes in its
00:30:59 --> 00:31:01 interior. So that would be true of a
00:31:01 --> 00:31:03 rogue planet as well. So if you got
00:31:03 --> 00:31:05 really sensitive infrared equipment uh
00:31:05 --> 00:31:08 in fact things like the James Web Space
00:31:08 --> 00:31:11 Telescope would do the trick uh then you
00:31:11 --> 00:31:13 can find it. But the uh the sort of
00:31:13 --> 00:31:16 standard method of finding these things
00:31:16 --> 00:31:18 is by as I said gravitational microl
00:31:18 --> 00:31:21 lensing. What does that mean? It means
00:31:21 --> 00:31:25 that you take repeated images of a patch
00:31:25 --> 00:31:28 of sky that has stars in it and most of
00:31:28 --> 00:31:30 the sky has stars in it when you look
00:31:30 --> 00:31:32 through big telescopes. So you take
00:31:32 --> 00:31:35 repeated images of the same patch of sky
00:31:35 --> 00:31:38 and look for changes in the brightness
00:31:38 --> 00:31:40 of the stars. Now, sometimes those
00:31:40 --> 00:31:42 changes are because the stars themselves
00:31:42 --> 00:31:45 are variable. Uh they're vary in their
00:31:45 --> 00:31:46 light output. Sometimes there are
00:31:46 --> 00:31:48 changes because it's not a star. It's
00:31:48 --> 00:31:50 actually an asteroid. So, it means it's
00:31:50 --> 00:31:52 moving in your field of view. But one of
00:31:52 --> 00:31:55 the potential changes and you can spot
00:31:55 --> 00:31:57 it because the what we call the light
00:31:57 --> 00:31:59 curve, the way the light behaves with
00:31:59 --> 00:32:02 time has a very characteristic shape.
00:32:02 --> 00:32:06 That is when you get uh something dark
00:32:06 --> 00:32:09 uh or less bright than the star behind
00:32:09 --> 00:32:13 it. It passes in front of a star and
00:32:13 --> 00:32:15 because of Einstein's general theory of
00:32:15 --> 00:32:17 relativity, we know the gravity of that
00:32:17 --> 00:32:20 dark object will warp the space around
00:32:20 --> 00:32:22 it and behave like a lens. And the
00:32:22 --> 00:32:24 effect of this lens passing in front of
00:32:24 --> 00:32:26 the star is to give you this light curve
00:32:26 --> 00:32:29 which has got a really strong peak uh
00:32:29 --> 00:32:31 and and side lobes. It's the shape is
00:32:31 --> 00:32:34 very characteristic. So various
00:32:34 --> 00:32:36 planetary systems have been discovered
00:32:36 --> 00:32:37 that way. You see a star going past and
00:32:37 --> 00:32:39 that has a different shape and then a
00:32:39 --> 00:32:41 planet goes past and that's got this
00:32:41 --> 00:32:44 little pointy light curve shape. Uh and
00:32:44 --> 00:32:46 you know you've found a a planet around
00:32:46 --> 00:32:48 a star. Um but if you just get the
00:32:48 --> 00:32:51 pointy light curve the small one then
00:32:51 --> 00:32:54 that's a planet on its own basically. Uh
00:32:54 --> 00:32:57 which is when we call it a rogue planet.
00:32:57 --> 00:33:01 So this uh observation is of uh an a
00:33:01 --> 00:33:03 rogue planet and it's been made in
00:33:03 --> 00:33:06 exactly that way uh by gravitational
00:33:06 --> 00:33:10 microl lensing but uh it's been observed
00:33:10 --> 00:33:13 from both earth and space. That's the
00:33:13 --> 00:33:17 thing. These are simultaneous earth and
00:33:17 --> 00:33:22 space um measurements and uh that allows
00:33:22 --> 00:33:26 you to uh check the timing very
00:33:26 --> 00:33:29 accurately of the gravitational
00:33:29 --> 00:33:31 microlensing. Uh the space telescope was
00:33:31 --> 00:33:33 the GIA space telescope which has been
00:33:33 --> 00:33:36 surveying stars for the last 15 years or
00:33:36 --> 00:33:38 so I think. Um, and because you've got
00:33:38 --> 00:33:42 two observations from places that are
00:33:42 --> 00:33:46 separated uh in space, that allows you
00:33:46 --> 00:33:48 to say a little bit more about the
00:33:48 --> 00:33:50 object. Because the trick with these
00:33:50 --> 00:33:52 things is you only see this thing once.
00:33:52 --> 00:33:54 You see a gravitational microlensing
00:33:54 --> 00:33:57 peak and then it's gone. Uh, and all
00:33:57 --> 00:33:59 your information is in the shape of that
00:33:59 --> 00:34:01 light curve. But if you got two light
00:34:01 --> 00:34:02 curves from two different vantage
00:34:02 --> 00:34:04 points, you can get a little bit more.
00:34:04 --> 00:34:07 And so uh what uh the scientists who did
00:34:07 --> 00:34:10 this work have said is that that enabled
00:34:10 --> 00:34:13 them for the first time to work out the
00:34:13 --> 00:34:15 mass of the microl lensing planet which
00:34:15 --> 00:34:18 is about 22 times the mass of Jupiter
00:34:18 --> 00:34:21 and to say where it is. Uh and it's
00:34:21 --> 00:34:24 something like 10 light years uh
00:34:24 --> 00:34:27 from the center of our galaxy. I I
00:34:27 --> 00:34:30 calculated 9 but no that's okay.
00:34:30 --> 00:34:33 Just round it up.
00:34:33 --> 00:34:36 >> 10. Yeah, it's near enough.
00:34:36 --> 00:34:38 >> 9. Well done.
00:34:38 --> 00:34:41 >> Yes. Well, 3 3 par six is from the
00:34:41 --> 00:34:43 center of the Milky Way galaxy. And
00:34:43 --> 00:34:45 people are saying, well, how close does
00:34:45 --> 00:34:46 that put it to us? Well, we're what?
00:34:46 --> 00:34:48 We're about 8.
00:34:48 --> 00:34:52 >> Uh uh where yes, something like 25
00:34:52 --> 00:34:55 light years. Yeah. Away. So, yes, you're
00:34:55 --> 00:34:56 right. Two and a half times further
00:34:56 --> 00:34:58 away.
00:34:58 --> 00:35:00 >> Um so, yeah, um an interesting set of
00:35:00 --> 00:35:03 observations, a nice piece of research.
00:35:03 --> 00:35:05 uh because um and and I guess a lot of
00:35:05 --> 00:35:07 it is serendipitous. They they're
00:35:07 --> 00:35:08 fortunate that Guyia happened to be
00:35:08 --> 00:35:11 looking at the same bit of sky at the
00:35:11 --> 00:35:12 same time. I'm not sure whether this was
00:35:12 --> 00:35:15 intentional, whether this work was can
00:35:15 --> 00:35:17 you give us time on the GIA spacecraft
00:35:17 --> 00:35:19 to look at a particular patch of sky
00:35:19 --> 00:35:20 because we're going to look at it at the
00:35:20 --> 00:35:22 same time uh with a groundbased
00:35:22 --> 00:35:24 telescope or whether it was a
00:35:24 --> 00:35:26 serendipitous observation. I need to
00:35:26 --> 00:35:27 follow up on that tool.
00:35:28 --> 00:35:30 >> Yes. Yes. Uh but uh it's very
00:35:30 --> 00:35:33 interesting um discovery, the fact that
00:35:33 --> 00:35:35 it came from two sources.
00:35:35 --> 00:35:35 >> Yeah.
00:35:35 --> 00:35:38 >> And so uh yeah, and uh there'll be more
00:35:38 --> 00:35:40 of these to be found. And with all the
00:35:40 --> 00:35:41 new telescopes that are getting ready to
00:35:41 --> 00:35:43 be
00:35:43 --> 00:35:45 >> um commissioned, we'll say
00:35:45 --> 00:35:47 >> um there's probably so much more ready
00:35:48 --> 00:35:50 to be discovered that's just lurking out
00:35:50 --> 00:35:51 there waiting for the right equipment to
00:35:52 --> 00:35:52 point at it.
00:35:52 --> 00:35:54 >> Yep, that's quite right. stuff that we
00:35:54 --> 00:35:57 didn't even know existed until not that
00:35:57 --> 00:35:58 long ago.
00:35:58 --> 00:36:00 >> Yeah. And I I suppose that's a that's a
00:36:00 --> 00:36:02 question for you, Fred, we might as well
00:36:02 --> 00:36:06 ask. Um, you know, in recent years, have
00:36:06 --> 00:36:08 we seen a real escalation in the number
00:36:08 --> 00:36:10 of new discoveries because of of
00:36:10 --> 00:36:12 technology that's improved?
00:36:12 --> 00:36:14 >> Absolutely. You've only to think of the
00:36:14 --> 00:36:17 the web telescope itself. uh you know
00:36:17 --> 00:36:19 we've got almost one story every day
00:36:19 --> 00:36:21 coming out from that
00:36:21 --> 00:36:27 >> uh of of real significance. Um so yes
00:36:27 --> 00:36:31 the obviously the technology absolutely
00:36:31 --> 00:36:34 uh progressively has revolutionized
00:36:34 --> 00:36:37 astronomy. It's it's been the same for
00:36:37 --> 00:36:41 centuries really. Uh, and the one I'm
00:36:41 --> 00:36:42 thinking of that perhaps did more than
00:36:42 --> 00:36:45 any other in terms of the the the giant
00:36:45 --> 00:36:47 leap that it made was photography when
00:36:47 --> 00:36:48 photography could be applied to
00:36:48 --> 00:36:51 astronomy towards the end of the 19th
00:36:51 --> 00:36:52 century. And you were suddenly in a
00:36:52 --> 00:36:54 regime where you could you could
00:36:54 --> 00:36:55 actually make
00:36:55 --> 00:36:57 >> qualitative measurements uh of things
00:36:58 --> 00:37:00 that people had only really been able to
00:37:00 --> 00:37:02 look at by eye and you could also see
00:37:02 --> 00:37:04 things that were much much fainter
00:37:04 --> 00:37:07 >> than the eye would reveal. So that was
00:37:07 --> 00:37:09 one of the biggest leaps. Then uh 100
00:37:09 --> 00:37:11 years later effectively we did the same
00:37:11 --> 00:37:13 thing but electronically with the charge
00:37:13 --> 00:37:15 couple devices and things like that that
00:37:15 --> 00:37:18 are maybe 20 times more sensitive than a
00:37:18 --> 00:37:20 photographic plate. So you suddenly got
00:37:20 --> 00:37:22 another leap and then bigger and bigger
00:37:22 --> 00:37:25 telescopes. Yeah, it's a theme that has
00:37:25 --> 00:37:27 been close to my heart because my career
00:37:27 --> 00:37:30 is now so long that I've seen a lot of
00:37:30 --> 00:37:35 these things firsthand. You know, I was
00:37:35 --> 00:37:36 using photographic plates when I
00:37:36 --> 00:37:38 started. That was the state-of-the-art,
00:37:38 --> 00:37:40 the technology. I remember when I was at
00:37:40 --> 00:37:45 school reading about some um um I was
00:37:45 --> 00:37:47 going to say eccentric, maybe that's the
00:37:47 --> 00:37:49 word, French astronomer who was trying
00:37:49 --> 00:37:51 to make electronic images of the sky.
00:37:52 --> 00:37:53 And I thought that's fantastic. That is
00:37:54 --> 00:37:55 superb. I want to do that kind of thing.
00:37:55 --> 00:37:58 But it was still very experimental. Now
00:37:58 --> 00:38:00 >> just just, you know, press a button and
00:38:00 --> 00:38:00 there it is.
00:38:00 --> 00:38:01 >> Yeah.
00:38:01 --> 00:38:02 >> Although you're still using photographic
00:38:02 --> 00:38:04 plates, you really need to move on,
00:38:04 --> 00:38:08 Fred. Um, uh, there are some people who
00:38:08 --> 00:38:09 do.
00:38:09 --> 00:38:10 >> I know. I know there are.
00:38:10 --> 00:38:11 >> It's not me.
00:38:11 --> 00:38:13 >> Yeah. Actually, retro is in at the
00:38:13 --> 00:38:14 moment. People, um, my my
00:38:14 --> 00:38:17 daughter-in-law got a record player for
00:38:17 --> 00:38:18 Christmas. So,
00:38:18 --> 00:38:21 >> yeah. Well, my uh my turntable's right
00:38:21 --> 00:38:21 there.
00:38:21 --> 00:38:23 >> Yeah, I've got one, too. Although, it's
00:38:23 --> 00:38:25 in a box in a cupboard in a
00:38:25 --> 00:38:26 >> I don't know where it is. It's somewhere
00:38:26 --> 00:38:29 around here. But, uh, I can plug it into
00:38:29 --> 00:38:31 a computer, so I can digitize anything.
00:38:31 --> 00:38:32 >> Very good.
00:38:32 --> 00:38:33 >> Yeah.
00:38:33 --> 00:38:35 >> Yeah. It's amazing. Um, so if you would
00:38:35 --> 00:38:38 like to read up on the rogue planet uh
00:38:38 --> 00:38:39 story and how they discovered it, you
00:38:39 --> 00:38:43 can do that at spaceaily.com.
00:38:43 --> 00:38:45 >> Fred, that brings us to the end of our
00:38:45 --> 00:38:48 first program back for the year.
00:38:48 --> 00:38:49 >> Well, that's gone quickly, hasn't it?
00:38:49 --> 00:38:52 >> Sure has. Yeah, it's flashing through
00:38:52 --> 00:38:53 them.
00:38:53 --> 00:38:55 >> Yeah. No, that's great. Um, and welcome
00:38:55 --> 00:38:57 to 2026. Who knows what we're going to
00:38:57 --> 00:39:00 see in 2026. Lots of astronomy events.
00:39:00 --> 00:39:01 We might talk about that in the next
00:39:01 --> 00:39:03 episodes. what what's coming up for
00:39:03 --> 00:39:05 2026.
00:39:05 --> 00:39:07 >> You can find plenty of websites where
00:39:07 --> 00:39:10 it'll tell you. Uh but um I think we're
00:39:10 --> 00:39:13 in for an exciting year with the you
00:39:13 --> 00:39:15 know the VC Ruben telescope coming
00:39:15 --> 00:39:18 online and various other pieces of kit
00:39:18 --> 00:39:19 which we're going to find results from.
00:39:20 --> 00:39:21 It's going to be very exciting.
00:39:21 --> 00:39:23 >> Absolutely. All right. Thanks Fred.
00:39:23 --> 00:39:24 We'll catch you next time.
00:39:24 --> 00:39:27 >> I hope so. Uh Professor Fred Watson,
00:39:28 --> 00:39:30 astronomer at large joining us on Space
00:39:30 --> 00:39:31 Nuts. And thanks to Hugh in the studio
00:39:31 --> 00:39:34 who couldn't be with us today because uh
00:39:34 --> 00:39:36 well he indulged in way too much
00:39:36 --> 00:39:39 Christmas cake and and nuts and well you
00:39:39 --> 00:39:41 know the stuff. Anyway, um apparently
00:39:41 --> 00:39:43 he's seeing someone named Jenny Craig
00:39:43 --> 00:39:46 about it. Uh and
00:39:46 --> 00:39:48 and from me, Andrew Dunley, thanks for
00:39:48 --> 00:39:51 your company. We'll see you again soon
00:39:51 --> 00:39:53 on the very next episode of Space Nuts.
00:39:53 --> 00:39:54 Bye-bye.
00:39:54 --> 00:39:56 >> Space Nuts. You've been listening to the
00:39:56 --> 00:39:59 Space Nuts podcast
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