Space Nuts Episode 491: The Windiest Planet, Martian Mysteries, and Light Pollution Concerns
Join Andrew Dunkley and Professor Jonti Horner in this captivating episode of Space Nuts, where they explore some of the most fascinating cosmic discoveries of our time. From the extraordinary winds of a distant exoplanet to intriguing geological findings on Mars, and the looming threat of light pollution on astronomical observations, this episode is packed with insights that will expand your cosmic perspective.
Episode Highlights:
- The Windiest Planet: D iscover Wasp 127B, the exoplanet with astonishing wind speeds reaching up to 33,000 kilometers per hour. Andrew and Jonti delve into the implications of these extreme weather conditions and what they reveal about the planet's atmosphere and energy dynamics.
- Martian Terrain Discovery : A new study uncovers a fascinating area on Mars that suggests the presence of permanent liquid water in the planet's ancient past. Jonti explains the significance of the clay deposits found in the northern lowlands and how they relate to the theory of a Martian ocean.
- Protostar Insights: Learn about T Tauri North, a protostar set to fade from view as it moves behind a thick disk of material in a triple star system. Andrew and Jonti discuss the scientific opportunities this presents for studying the formation of stars and planets in such systems.
- Light Pollution Threat: The Extremely Large Telescope, built in one of the darkest places on Earth, faces potential light pollution from a nearby renewable energy project. Explore the challenges this poses to astronomical research and the delicate balance between development and preservation of dark skies.
For more Space Nuts, including our continually updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website (https://www.spacenutspodcast.com/about)
Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
00:00 - Introduction to the episode and topics
02:15 - Discussion on Wasp 127B and its extreme winds
10:30 - Insights into Martian clay deposits and ancient oceans
18:00 - The fading protostar T Tauri North and its implications
26:45 - Light pollution concerns for the Extremely Large Telescope
30:00 - Closing thoughts and listener engagement
✍️ Episode References
Wasp 127B Discovery
https://exoplanetarchive.ipac.caltech.edu/
Mars Clay Deposits
T Tauri Stars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_Tauri_star
Extremely Large Telescope
https://www.eso.org/public/teles-instr/elt/
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Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/25335800?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:01 hi there thanks for joining us and
00:00:01 --> 00:00:04 welcome to a fresh episode of Space Nuts
00:00:04 --> 00:00:07 my name is Andrew Dunley your host it's
00:00:07 --> 00:00:09 always good to have you company coming
00:00:09 --> 00:00:11 up we are going to look at the windiest
00:00:11 --> 00:00:13 planet ever discovered this is planet
00:00:13 --> 00:00:15 baked beans no it's not it's called
00:00:15 --> 00:00:18 something else but um yeah it's it's
00:00:18 --> 00:00:20 quite extraordinary the numbers will
00:00:20 --> 00:00:23 blow your mind uh a a strange area of
00:00:23 --> 00:00:25 terrain has been identified in Mars
00:00:25 --> 00:00:27 which tells a very interesting tale
00:00:27 --> 00:00:29 about the planet's history uh we're
00:00:29 --> 00:00:30 going to look at a Proto star that we
00:00:30 --> 00:00:33 won't be able to look at soon and it's
00:00:33 --> 00:00:36 also part of a triple star system and
00:00:36 --> 00:00:38 time permitting we are going to bring up
00:00:38 --> 00:00:41 that Old Chestnut again light pollution
00:00:41 --> 00:00:44 that's all coming up on this episode of
00:00:44 --> 00:00:47 Space Nuts 15 seconds guidance is
00:00:47 --> 00:00:52 internal 10 9 ignition sequence start
00:00:52 --> 00:00:58 Space Nuts 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1
00:00:58 --> 00:01:01 Space Nuts as the nuts before it feels
00:01:01 --> 00:01:04 good indeed it is now Fred's still away
00:01:04 --> 00:01:06 gallivanting around with reindeer in the
00:01:06 --> 00:01:09 northern hemisphere somewhere uh and
00:01:09 --> 00:01:12 joining us uh in his place is Professor
00:01:12 --> 00:01:14 jonty Horner professor of astrophysics
00:01:14 --> 00:01:16 at the University of Southern Queensland
00:01:16 --> 00:01:18 hi Johnny good day how are you going
00:01:18 --> 00:01:21 good good and you getting there slowly a
00:01:21 --> 00:01:23 little bit sniffly we're having the joys
00:01:23 --> 00:01:25 of Summer around here so it's been nice
00:01:25 --> 00:01:26 and dry and warm for the last few days
00:01:26 --> 00:01:27 so all the plants have been getting too
00:01:28 --> 00:01:30 excited and I think I a little bit from
00:01:30 --> 00:01:32 their excitement our plants are very
00:01:32 --> 00:01:35 unexcited because we're going to hit 42
00:01:35 --> 00:01:36 celsus
00:01:36 --> 00:01:38 today and I've got the air conditioning
00:01:38 --> 00:01:41 on and it usually Cuts itself off pretty
00:01:41 --> 00:01:43 quickly this time of the day because you
00:01:43 --> 00:01:46 know it um equalizes uh through the
00:01:46 --> 00:01:48 thermostat uh it has been running
00:01:48 --> 00:01:51 non-stop for 45 minutes now because it
00:01:51 --> 00:01:53 cannot keep the temperature down because
00:01:54 --> 00:01:55 it's so hot outside right right at the
00:01:55 --> 00:01:57 moment we
00:01:57 --> 00:01:59 going one of the beauties of the daring
00:01:59 --> 00:02:01 B here is that our heat Wes don't get
00:02:01 --> 00:02:03 quite that extreme I think further west
00:02:03 --> 00:02:05 they do but this area around Tober is
00:02:05 --> 00:02:07 just really lovely so our summers are
00:02:07 --> 00:02:11 pretty much 30 to 35 most days but gets
00:02:11 --> 00:02:13 cool enough at night to sleep still and
00:02:13 --> 00:02:15 very rare that we'll get up near to 40 I
00:02:15 --> 00:02:17 think in the couple of years I've been
00:02:17 --> 00:02:19 in this house we've not hit 40 yet and
00:02:19 --> 00:02:21 yet we don't have all the humidity that
00:02:21 --> 00:02:24 make Brisbane the kind of world's
00:02:24 --> 00:02:27 amp the sound of it JY yeah well I'd
00:02:27 --> 00:02:29 tell you who likes this kind of weather
00:02:29 --> 00:02:31 it's the local snake population I drove
00:02:31 --> 00:02:36 into our um um we live in a gated estate
00:02:36 --> 00:02:38 we drove in I drove in yesterday and saw
00:02:38 --> 00:02:40 what I thought was a piece of plastic
00:02:40 --> 00:02:42 hose on the road no it wasn't it was a 5
00:02:42 --> 00:02:44 foot eastern brown
00:02:44 --> 00:02:47 snake uh crossing the road um minding
00:02:47 --> 00:02:48 its own business but that's the third
00:02:48 --> 00:02:50 time we've seen one this summer uh if
00:02:50 --> 00:02:52 you want to have a look at it I've U put
00:02:52 --> 00:02:55 photos of it on Instagram and Tik Tok so
00:02:55 --> 00:02:58 yeah it's um it was a big one I let him
00:02:58 --> 00:03:01 go I let him go all the old saying say
00:03:01 --> 00:03:02 you know they're more scared of you than
00:03:02 --> 00:03:04 you are of them I love the Australian
00:03:04 --> 00:03:06 but when I moved out here from the UK
00:03:06 --> 00:03:08 everybody was kind of Oh no you're going
00:03:08 --> 00:03:09 all the animals will kill you you know
00:03:09 --> 00:03:11 the drop bag will get you all this stuff
00:03:11 --> 00:03:14 drop so I got a book called Australia's
00:03:14 --> 00:03:16 most dangerous animals um which was only
00:03:16 --> 00:03:18 a little one turns out the most
00:03:18 --> 00:03:20 dangerous animal in Australia contat
00:03:20 --> 00:03:22 book is not sharks or snakes I mean
00:03:22 --> 00:03:24 obviously it's people um but aside from
00:03:24 --> 00:03:27 people it's European honeybee because
00:03:27 --> 00:03:28 people are allergic to them and they are
00:03:28 --> 00:03:31 in and that really puts it in
00:03:31 --> 00:03:33 perspective it's the case that Australia
00:03:33 --> 00:03:34 has all these animals that can be
00:03:34 --> 00:03:36 dangerous but they're also nearly all
00:03:36 --> 00:03:38 cowards so they'll typically get out of
00:03:38 --> 00:03:40 your way it's not like the you know
00:03:40 --> 00:03:43 rattlesnakes in the US or I think is it
00:03:43 --> 00:03:44 cobras in the subcontinent where they'll
00:03:44 --> 00:03:47 actually aggressively defend themselves
00:03:47 --> 00:03:49 the T here just want to run away yes so
00:03:49 --> 00:03:51 you know tell between the legs shoot off
00:03:52 --> 00:03:53 yes um if they had legs they could
00:03:53 --> 00:03:57 probably do that yep um now we we should
00:03:57 --> 00:03:58 get on with it because we got a lot to
00:03:58 --> 00:04:01 talk about we going to focus firstly on
00:04:01 --> 00:04:04 the windiest planet ever discovered
00:04:04 --> 00:04:08 planet baked beans it's not it's um it's
00:04:08 --> 00:04:11 it's wasp 17
00:04:11 --> 00:04:14 127b um tell us tell us all about it the
00:04:14 --> 00:04:16 joys of catalog numbers that do exactly
00:04:17 --> 00:04:18 what they say on the tin incidentally
00:04:18 --> 00:04:20 for those who are not so ke on the
00:04:20 --> 00:04:22 catalog numbers that are given to EXO
00:04:22 --> 00:04:24 Planet wit really useful to astronomers
00:04:24 --> 00:04:26 but not really good for you know
00:04:26 --> 00:04:28 everybody's imagination the
00:04:28 --> 00:04:29 international astronomical Union are
00:04:29 --> 00:04:32 slowly naming planets and their stars
00:04:32 --> 00:04:33 and they're doing it in a very kind of
00:04:33 --> 00:04:36 democratic Global Community type fashion
00:04:36 --> 00:04:38 and this one hasn't yet been named but
00:04:38 --> 00:04:41 it may well be in the future so names
00:04:41 --> 00:04:42 coming soon probably people will
00:04:43 --> 00:04:45 nominate B beans given given this story
00:04:45 --> 00:04:47 but we'll just have to see how that ends
00:04:47 --> 00:04:50 out was 127b is a planet that was found
00:04:50 --> 00:04:53 using the transit method so the WASP
00:04:53 --> 00:04:54 program is a wide-angle search for
00:04:54 --> 00:04:56 planets and they've got this array of
00:04:56 --> 00:04:59 essentially pretty good DSLR cameras
00:04:59 --> 00:05:01 with wide angle lenses all strapped
00:05:01 --> 00:05:02 together that have been staring at the
00:05:03 --> 00:05:05 same patch of the night sky whenever
00:05:05 --> 00:05:07 it's above the Horizon for a long long
00:05:07 --> 00:05:09 time and they have a couple of sessions
00:05:09 --> 00:05:10 around the world and what this lets them
00:05:10 --> 00:05:12 do is monitor the brightness of all the
00:05:12 --> 00:05:14 stars in that field of view and look for
00:05:14 --> 00:05:17 any of them that periodically Winker us
00:05:17 --> 00:05:18 and this is the same technique that
00:05:18 --> 00:05:20 NASA's Kepler Mission use that the test
00:05:20 --> 00:05:23 mission uses as well and they find
00:05:23 --> 00:05:25 planets by looking at the planets
00:05:25 --> 00:05:26 passing between us and the star blocking
00:05:26 --> 00:05:28 out some of that light and causing the
00:05:28 --> 00:05:30 star to dim and then brighten
00:05:30 --> 00:05:32 and it's a technique that is really
00:05:32 --> 00:05:34 effective but it's very biased towards
00:05:34 --> 00:05:36 finding planets that are big because a
00:05:36 --> 00:05:38 bigger planet blocks more light and also
00:05:38 --> 00:05:40 finding planets that are nearer to the
00:05:40 --> 00:05:41 star because the planet that's nearer to
00:05:41 --> 00:05:44 the star goes around more quickly so you
00:05:44 --> 00:05:46 get more Winks in a given period of time
00:05:46 --> 00:05:47 and that's very true of this planet this
00:05:47 --> 00:05:50 is a planet that's big it's one and a
00:05:50 --> 00:05:52 third times larger than Jupiter in terms
00:05:52 --> 00:05:55 of diameter it's also quite light it's
00:05:55 --> 00:05:57 less massive than Saturn it's about a
00:05:57 --> 00:05:59 fifth of Jupiter's mass which means it's
00:05:59 --> 00:06:00 one of the Le least dense planets we
00:06:00 --> 00:06:03 know people describe it as a super puff
00:06:04 --> 00:06:06 but because it's big it's got this big
00:06:06 --> 00:06:08 diameter it blocks quite a big chunk of
00:06:08 --> 00:06:10 its stars like making it relatively
00:06:10 --> 00:06:13 obvious for people DET to detect and it
00:06:13 --> 00:06:14 goes around every four days so this star
00:06:14 --> 00:06:17 Winks it as every four days or so and
00:06:17 --> 00:06:19 that's how this planet was discovered
00:06:19 --> 00:06:21 now because it's big because it stars
00:06:21 --> 00:06:23 quite bright it's a really prime target
00:06:23 --> 00:06:26 for people to look at to see if they can
00:06:26 --> 00:06:27 learn more about it we want to develop
00:06:27 --> 00:06:30 the tools to study the pheres of planets
00:06:30 --> 00:06:32 R of the stars and learn more about them
00:06:32 --> 00:06:34 so not to just know that they're there
00:06:34 --> 00:06:36 but actually characterize them and that
00:06:36 --> 00:06:38 helps us understand how planets form
00:06:38 --> 00:06:40 what the diversity of planets is and all
00:06:40 --> 00:06:42 the rest of it and this has been a prime
00:06:42 --> 00:06:44 target for that kind of work for a few
00:06:44 --> 00:06:46 years the new results that have come out
00:06:46 --> 00:06:48 are the result of people trying to study
00:06:48 --> 00:06:50 the atmosphere of this planet they used
00:06:50 --> 00:06:51 a very large telescope which is
00:06:52 --> 00:06:54 remarkably imaginatively named and they
00:06:54 --> 00:06:56 were getting observations with this huge
00:06:56 --> 00:06:58 groundbased telescope to study the
00:06:58 --> 00:07:01 Spectra of this Planet so to take the
00:07:01 --> 00:07:02 light that we get from the planet
00:07:02 --> 00:07:05 separately from the Star break it into
00:07:05 --> 00:07:08 its component colors and look at what
00:07:08 --> 00:07:10 spectral lines are in there because the
00:07:10 --> 00:07:11 spectral lines give you the fingerprint
00:07:12 --> 00:07:14 of the competition of the atmosphere MH
00:07:14 --> 00:07:16 they also tell you things like how
00:07:16 --> 00:07:18 quickly the atmosphere is moving how hot
00:07:18 --> 00:07:20 it is and with enough information you
00:07:20 --> 00:07:22 can even start inferring things about
00:07:22 --> 00:07:23 the structure where the clouds are
00:07:23 --> 00:07:26 things like that now this is really
00:07:26 --> 00:07:27 cutting edge so even with the biggest
00:07:27 --> 00:07:29 telescopes in the world we can only
00:07:29 --> 00:07:30 really do it for big fluffy planets that
00:07:31 --> 00:07:32 are very near their STS we nowhere near
00:07:32 --> 00:07:34 been able to do it for planets like
00:07:34 --> 00:07:36 Earth yet but it's a step on that
00:07:36 --> 00:07:38 Journey so that's the background here
00:07:38 --> 00:07:40 what happened with this planet is that
00:07:40 --> 00:07:43 the observations when they got the
00:07:43 --> 00:07:44 Spectra it revealed something really
00:07:44 --> 00:07:46 weird for the different things in the
00:07:46 --> 00:07:48 atmosphere instead of having a single
00:07:48 --> 00:07:50 peak in the spectrum that said hey look
00:07:50 --> 00:07:53 okay we've got hydrogen or whatever they
00:07:53 --> 00:07:55 found two peaks quite close together but
00:07:55 --> 00:07:57 certainly quite separate from one
00:07:57 --> 00:07:59 another distinctly separate and this
00:07:59 --> 00:08:01 puzzled them for a little bit and there
00:08:01 --> 00:08:02 was a bit of a Continuum between them as
00:08:02 --> 00:08:04 well so it wasn't just like one narrow
00:08:04 --> 00:08:06 Spike and a gap in another narrow Spike
00:08:06 --> 00:08:09 but what they realized was that thanks
00:08:09 --> 00:08:12 to the Doppler effect just exactly the
00:08:12 --> 00:08:13 same kind of thing we use for the radial
00:08:13 --> 00:08:15 velocity measurements that we do of
00:08:15 --> 00:08:17 stars to measure their
00:08:17 --> 00:08:20 wobbles if you've got gas that's coming
00:08:20 --> 00:08:22 towards the air light that it emits and
00:08:22 --> 00:08:25 light that it absorbs that light will be
00:08:25 --> 00:08:27 blue shifted the wavelength will be
00:08:27 --> 00:08:28 shorter than it would be if that was
00:08:29 --> 00:08:30 station
00:08:30 --> 00:08:32 if that gas is moving away from us the
00:08:32 --> 00:08:34 light stretched out and the light's red
00:08:34 --> 00:08:36 shifted and the degree to which the
00:08:36 --> 00:08:38 light is blue or red shifted tells you
00:08:38 --> 00:08:39 the speed the quicker it's moving the
00:08:39 --> 00:08:41 bigger the shift is you know this is the
00:08:41 --> 00:08:43 same thing you get if a police car or an
00:08:43 --> 00:08:44 ambulance comes past you know you hear
00:08:44 --> 00:08:46 the siren when it's approaching and it's
00:08:46 --> 00:08:50 ha pitched and fast you hear like no no
00:08:50 --> 00:08:52 n no n no and then it goes past and it's
00:08:52 --> 00:08:54 going away and you hear
00:08:54 --> 00:08:56 n and the faster it's going the bigger
00:08:56 --> 00:08:57 the shift is so when they're in a real
00:08:57 --> 00:09:00 hurry it's really distinct
00:09:00 --> 00:09:02 that allows them to figure out what's
00:09:03 --> 00:09:04 going on here so it turns out that this
00:09:04 --> 00:09:08 planet is the victim of incredibly high
00:09:08 --> 00:09:11 wind speeds there's extreme weather
00:09:11 --> 00:09:12 going on and what they think it is best
00:09:13 --> 00:09:15 described as is like an equatorial jet
00:09:15 --> 00:09:17 where you've got winds going around the
00:09:17 --> 00:09:19 planet at ridiculously high speed now
00:09:19 --> 00:09:20 this is a planet that grows around its
00:09:21 --> 00:09:22 star every four days its surface
00:09:22 --> 00:09:24 temperature of the cloud tops is like
00:09:24 --> 00:09:27 1100 degrees C so it's really extreme
00:09:27 --> 00:09:29 anyway but the wind speed to splend
00:09:29 --> 00:09:33 these two peaks must be about
00:09:33 --> 00:09:36 33 km per hour so that's 9 km/
00:09:36 --> 00:09:39 second which is just ridiculous and
00:09:39 --> 00:09:41 you've got the blue shifted Peak because
00:09:41 --> 00:09:42 on one side of the planet the wind's
00:09:42 --> 00:09:45 coming towards us and the red shifted
00:09:45 --> 00:09:46 Peak because on the other side of the
00:09:46 --> 00:09:48 planet on the other edge of the planet
00:09:48 --> 00:09:50 the wind's going away from us so you get
00:09:50 --> 00:09:52 this peak to Peak width of about 18 km a
00:09:52 --> 00:09:55 second between 9 km a second towards us
00:09:55 --> 00:09:58 and 9 km/ second away putting that in
00:09:58 --> 00:10:00 scale that is 16 times faster than the
00:10:00 --> 00:10:02 fastest winds we've ever seen in the
00:10:02 --> 00:10:05 solar system which are the 200 km per
00:10:05 --> 00:10:08 hour winds on Neptune and is therefore
00:10:08 --> 00:10:11 something like 160 150 times stronger
00:10:11 --> 00:10:12 than the strongest wind gust ever
00:10:12 --> 00:10:15 recorded on earth so that's just insane
00:10:15 --> 00:10:17 remarkable wind speed and it tells us a
00:10:17 --> 00:10:19 lot about the properties of the
00:10:19 --> 00:10:21 atmosphere there's going to be a lot we
00:10:21 --> 00:10:22 learn about it in terms of how energy is
00:10:22 --> 00:10:24 moved from the daylight side to the
00:10:24 --> 00:10:26 nighttime side because this planet
00:10:26 --> 00:10:28 should be tily locked so it should keep
00:10:28 --> 00:10:30 one side facing towards the star one
00:10:30 --> 00:10:32 side facing away and these winds are
00:10:32 --> 00:10:34 probably what's transferring the heat
00:10:34 --> 00:10:36 from the daytime side which is super hot
00:10:36 --> 00:10:38 round to the night side which is colder
00:10:38 --> 00:10:41 I was going to get to that yeah um that
00:10:41 --> 00:10:43 that makes perfect sense so you're get
00:10:43 --> 00:10:45 getting super heated on one side and
00:10:45 --> 00:10:49 it's just yeah R around and around
00:10:49 --> 00:10:52 absolutely and it's a bit more than
00:10:52 --> 00:10:53 anybody would have expected to find but
00:10:53 --> 00:10:55 that's the nature of this kind of
00:10:55 --> 00:10:57 exploration we I always thinking it's
00:10:57 --> 00:10:59 true of most things in astronomy that
00:10:59 --> 00:11:01 the closer you are to the conditions
00:11:01 --> 00:11:02 that are in your room right now the
00:11:02 --> 00:11:03 better we understand it so the further
00:11:03 --> 00:11:05 we go away from standard temperature
00:11:05 --> 00:11:08 room temperature room pressure the less
00:11:08 --> 00:11:09 understanding we have the more we have
00:11:09 --> 00:11:12 to learn now we've got guide p in our
00:11:13 --> 00:11:14 solar system so we've learned a bit
00:11:14 --> 00:11:15 about planets that are like the solar
00:11:15 --> 00:11:17 system planets but when it comes to
00:11:17 --> 00:11:19 something like this super hot super
00:11:19 --> 00:11:21 puffy planet around this star that is
00:11:21 --> 00:11:22 similar to but a bit bigger and a bit
00:11:23 --> 00:11:25 hotter than the sun it's totally
00:11:25 --> 00:11:26 different to anything we've ever seen
00:11:26 --> 00:11:29 and experienced and therefore you get
00:11:29 --> 00:11:31 results you don't expect and in
00:11:31 --> 00:11:32 understanding those we get a better
00:11:32 --> 00:11:35 handle of how planets work yes
00:11:35 --> 00:11:39 fascinating how does it compare to um
00:11:39 --> 00:11:41 well the gas giants in our solar system
00:11:42 --> 00:11:43 I mean they're much further away from
00:11:43 --> 00:11:46 their star so there the further away but
00:11:46 --> 00:11:47 there's still a lot of interesting
00:11:47 --> 00:11:48 things happening
00:11:48 --> 00:11:50 energy-wise we've got a lot of data for
00:11:51 --> 00:11:53 Jupiter and Saturn and more limited data
00:11:53 --> 00:11:54 from the Voyager spacecraft that went to
00:11:54 --> 00:11:56 Uranus inection we've basically been to
00:11:56 --> 00:11:58 jran saten more often but the highest
00:11:59 --> 00:12:00 speed speeds that we've ever observed in
00:12:00 --> 00:12:02 the solar system of those on Neptune
00:12:02 --> 00:12:05 which are about 2 km hour now that
00:12:05 --> 00:12:07 is pretty impressive from an earth based
00:12:08 --> 00:12:10 point of view and was a big surprise
00:12:10 --> 00:12:13 because neon so far from the sun it's
00:12:13 --> 00:12:14 got so little energy that that was a
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16 surprise and it turns out it's due to
00:12:16 --> 00:12:17 the energy coming from the interior of
00:12:17 --> 00:12:20 the planet in part as well as the solar
00:12:20 --> 00:12:22 radiation getting there but that was a
00:12:22 --> 00:12:24 shock but this is 16 times stronger than
00:12:24 --> 00:12:26 you get on Neptune like I say it's about
00:12:26 --> 00:12:28 170 times stronger than how strong this
00:12:28 --> 00:12:31 wind here on Earth 150 times I think
00:12:31 --> 00:12:35 there was a cyclone a typhoon um be a
00:12:35 --> 00:12:38 hurricane because of the Bas in it's in
00:12:38 --> 00:12:40 um cyc hurricane Patricia a few years
00:12:40 --> 00:12:42 ago that rapidly intensified and became
00:12:42 --> 00:12:44 the strongest in terms of continuous
00:12:44 --> 00:12:47 wind speed on Earth that we'd ever obset
00:12:47 --> 00:12:50 and that was 215 kilm per hour as a
00:12:50 --> 00:12:52 continuous wind speed with gusts
00:12:52 --> 00:12:54 normally up to 50% higher than that yeah
00:12:54 --> 00:12:56 so I mean if you said that the gust were
00:12:56 --> 00:13:00 330 kilm per hour this is 100 tons
00:13:00 --> 00:13:03 up wow yeah they're big numbers aren't
00:13:03 --> 00:13:05 they but what what was
00:13:05 --> 00:13:09 33 kilm an hour 205 miles an
00:13:09 --> 00:13:12 hour for our American friend um that's
00:13:12 --> 00:13:15 that's outrageous kite Flyers it' be so
00:13:15 --> 00:13:16 very
00:13:16 --> 00:13:18 thrilled well I mean to put it another
00:13:18 --> 00:13:19 way that's basically like the
00:13:19 --> 00:13:21 circumference of the Earth every hour
00:13:21 --> 00:13:24 isn't it it would be close yes I'm just
00:13:24 --> 00:13:26 going to double double check my distance
00:13:26 --> 00:13:28 at almost so our circumference is about
00:13:28 --> 00:13:29 40 f
00:13:29 --> 00:13:32 so if you could travel at the speed of
00:13:32 --> 00:13:34 this wind yeah then you'd be able to get
00:13:34 --> 00:13:37 around the Earth in about every 70
00:13:37 --> 00:13:39 minutes the International Space Station
00:13:39 --> 00:13:41 goes around about every 90 minutes so
00:13:41 --> 00:13:43 it's speed it's faster than the speed
00:13:43 --> 00:13:46 that the space station is orbiting Earth
00:13:46 --> 00:13:49 fascinating yes well there it is um the
00:13:49 --> 00:13:51 windiest planet ever discovered edel
00:13:51 --> 00:13:55 Take a Bow uh now JY let's move on to
00:13:55 --> 00:13:57 our next story uh this is another
00:13:57 --> 00:13:59 discovery on Mars a strange area of
00:13:59 --> 00:14:02 terrain has been identified it's not so
00:14:02 --> 00:14:05 much what it looks like that is the
00:14:05 --> 00:14:07 Discovery although that is true it's
00:14:07 --> 00:14:08 what it tells us about the history of
00:14:09 --> 00:14:11 the planet that's even more fascinating
00:14:11 --> 00:14:15 yeah this shook me um really when I read
00:14:15 --> 00:14:16 it was really interesting but
00:14:16 --> 00:14:18 particularly given that it speaks
00:14:18 --> 00:14:19 something very similar to the kind of
00:14:19 --> 00:14:22 terrain I've got locally so the dialing
00:14:22 --> 00:14:24 Downs here are quite striking because
00:14:24 --> 00:14:27 you've got these flat topped mises with
00:14:27 --> 00:14:29 which stand a few hundred meters Above
00:14:29 --> 00:14:31 the Rest of the terrain here and it's a
00:14:31 --> 00:14:33 very flat area but with these distinct
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35 areas that are raised up with flat tops
00:14:35 --> 00:14:37 some of them are more hill-shaped
00:14:37 --> 00:14:41 and this is a similar area on Mars it's
00:14:41 --> 00:14:43 an area of what are described as buts
00:14:43 --> 00:14:46 and Mees which date back a huge amount
00:14:46 --> 00:14:48 of time it's in the northern hemisphere
00:14:48 --> 00:14:51 of Mars which is this lowland area with
00:14:51 --> 00:14:52 far fewer craters than the Southern
00:14:52 --> 00:14:55 Highland so it's a low terrain with lots
00:14:55 --> 00:14:58 and lots of um well a lot of lack of
00:14:58 --> 00:14:59 craters compared to the southern
00:14:59 --> 00:15:02 hemisphere which has long been argued to
00:15:02 --> 00:15:03 be the place that you'd expect to have
00:15:03 --> 00:15:05 had an ocean on Mars in the very distant
00:15:05 --> 00:15:08 past and that remains somewhat
00:15:08 --> 00:15:09 controversial other explanations are
00:15:09 --> 00:15:11 available and in fact there's a study
00:15:11 --> 00:15:13 came out in the last week looking at
00:15:13 --> 00:15:16 Mars Quakes arguing that the origin of
00:15:16 --> 00:15:18 these terrains may not have been a giant
00:15:18 --> 00:15:19 impact like we think but could have been
00:15:19 --> 00:15:21 linked to PL tectonics so there's a lot
00:15:21 --> 00:15:23 of discussion and a lot of study going
00:15:23 --> 00:15:26 on with this but the general consensus
00:15:26 --> 00:15:29 is that that Northern area of Mars the
00:15:29 --> 00:15:31 orans has been heavily resurfaced when
00:15:31 --> 00:15:32 Ma was in and that's why you've got
00:15:32 --> 00:15:34 fewer creators exit have less time to
00:15:34 --> 00:15:36 build up the creators and that's kind of
00:15:36 --> 00:15:38 the evidence for the ocean or one of the
00:15:38 --> 00:15:40 big bits of the evidence for the ocean
00:15:40 --> 00:15:41 if you took the Earth's oceans away
00:15:41 --> 00:15:43 you'd honestly see a very similar thing
00:15:43 --> 00:15:45 the ocean floor has far fewer crat than
00:15:45 --> 00:15:48 the rest of the Earth's surface yeah now
00:15:48 --> 00:15:50 what's interesting with this area is
00:15:50 --> 00:15:52 that the team who studied it have used
00:15:52 --> 00:15:54 data from a number of instruments see
00:15:54 --> 00:15:56 high-rise cameras which are going around
00:15:56 --> 00:15:58 Mars data from Mars reconnaissance
00:15:59 --> 00:16:01 Orbiter you know Mars Express and the
00:16:01 --> 00:16:03 exra mar Trace gas analyzer so they've
00:16:03 --> 00:16:05 got Lads of data from lots of different
00:16:05 --> 00:16:07 sources looking at this area with the
00:16:07 --> 00:16:09 butts and the mees and what they've
00:16:09 --> 00:16:11 found is that on the sides of them where
00:16:11 --> 00:16:14 it's been weathered away you've got
00:16:14 --> 00:16:17 evidence of a huge depth of material
00:16:17 --> 00:16:20 that are Clays so this is very clay
00:16:20 --> 00:16:24 material stretching up to 300 and 50 m
00:16:24 --> 00:16:26 vertically so really big depth of clear
00:16:26 --> 00:16:30 material now the idea idea seems to be
00:16:30 --> 00:16:34 that originally whatever it was that
00:16:34 --> 00:16:37 created that area laad down deposits as
00:16:37 --> 00:16:39 a fairly flat layer up to the height of
00:16:39 --> 00:16:41 what we see as the tops of the buts and
00:16:41 --> 00:16:43 Mees this is my sanding and then over
00:16:43 --> 00:16:45 billions of years that's been weathered
00:16:45 --> 00:16:47 away just like what's happening here so
00:16:47 --> 00:16:49 the areas with the flatter tops are
00:16:49 --> 00:16:50 areas where there's been a slightly
00:16:50 --> 00:16:52 stronger material on top and weathering
00:16:52 --> 00:16:53 hasn't happened so they've been
00:16:53 --> 00:16:56 weathered around that yeah so exposing
00:16:56 --> 00:16:59 these layers of clayes is exposing
00:16:59 --> 00:17:01 almost like a chronological sequence of
00:17:01 --> 00:17:02 material that has been
00:17:02 --> 00:17:07 deposited so to have 350 M depth of clay
00:17:07 --> 00:17:09 materials is really interesting because
00:17:09 --> 00:17:11 these Clays only form in the presence of
00:17:11 --> 00:17:14 liquid water um it needs to be permanent
00:17:14 --> 00:17:15 liquid water it can't just be that you
00:17:15 --> 00:17:17 got a few drops of water on a rock that
00:17:17 --> 00:17:20 wasn't give you clay okay so to have
00:17:20 --> 00:17:22 this depth of clay is suggesting that
00:17:22 --> 00:17:24 there was permanent liquid water above
00:17:24 --> 00:17:27 this area for a very long time you're
00:17:27 --> 00:17:30 looking at deposits from that and that
00:17:30 --> 00:17:32 is really strong evidence that there was
00:17:32 --> 00:17:34 permanent liquid water over a very
00:17:35 --> 00:17:37 lengthy period of time in the area on
00:17:37 --> 00:17:39 Mars that everybody has been arguing for
00:17:39 --> 00:17:42 ages was once home to an ocean so it
00:17:42 --> 00:17:44 seems to be yet another piece of
00:17:44 --> 00:17:46 evidence for the presence of that kind
00:17:46 --> 00:17:48 of northern hemisphere beautiful ocean
00:17:48 --> 00:17:50 kind of three and a half four billion
00:17:50 --> 00:17:53 years ago in the ancient past now that's
00:17:53 --> 00:17:54 really exciting in of itself but there's
00:17:55 --> 00:17:56 a nice additional twist which is that
00:17:56 --> 00:17:59 this area which looks now so exciting
00:17:59 --> 00:18:01 whether this strong evidence of clay
00:18:01 --> 00:18:04 materials is tied to part of Mars that
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07 we call oxia planum and that's going to
00:18:07 --> 00:18:08 be the destination for the European
00:18:08 --> 00:18:10 rosalin Franklin Mission now that
00:18:10 --> 00:18:12 mission was meant to launch um three or
00:18:12 --> 00:18:15 four years ago as a joint initiative
00:18:15 --> 00:18:17 between the Europeans and the Russians
00:18:17 --> 00:18:19 but when everything that's going on with
00:18:19 --> 00:18:22 Russia and the Ukraine kicked off the
00:18:22 --> 00:18:23 Europeans pulled their collaboration
00:18:23 --> 00:18:25 with Russia which meant that they had to
00:18:25 --> 00:18:27 rebuild a lot of stuff because they had
00:18:27 --> 00:18:29 to now do what the Russians were going
00:18:29 --> 00:18:31 to do for them and that delayed things
00:18:31 --> 00:18:33 so it's now purely a European Mission it
00:18:33 --> 00:18:34 looks like it's going to launch in
00:18:34 --> 00:18:37 2028 and it is a mission that is
00:18:37 --> 00:18:39 designed very specifically to look for
00:18:39 --> 00:18:41 evidence of Life on Mars particularly
00:18:41 --> 00:18:44 past life and the name rosn Franklin of
00:18:44 --> 00:18:46 course comes from the incredibly gifted
00:18:46 --> 00:18:49 researcher who did most of the work that
00:18:49 --> 00:18:50 led to cric and Watson getting the Nobel
00:18:50 --> 00:18:52 Prize for the structure of DNA but
00:18:52 --> 00:18:54 unfortunately she passed away before the
00:18:54 --> 00:18:56 prize was awarded at a very young age so
00:18:57 --> 00:18:59 it's nice to see her honored and it
00:19:00 --> 00:19:02 a nice thing to go together that the
00:19:02 --> 00:19:04 place that that mission is going to go
00:19:04 --> 00:19:06 now looks even more interesting than it
00:19:06 --> 00:19:07 did before so it's like the TRS are the
00:19:07 --> 00:19:09 perfect
00:19:09 --> 00:19:13 s yeah look um we we are learning more
00:19:13 --> 00:19:14 and more and more the evidence is
00:19:14 --> 00:19:17 stacking up um are we very far away from
00:19:17 --> 00:19:20 saying definitively okay this was what
00:19:20 --> 00:19:24 Mars was like at this time no questions
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27 asked I'd like to think s it's one of
00:19:27 --> 00:19:29 the cool things about us astronomy
00:19:29 --> 00:19:30 particularly this kind of planetary
00:19:30 --> 00:19:33 science that speaks to the kind of
00:19:33 --> 00:19:34 detective story fans because what we're
00:19:34 --> 00:19:36 doing effectively is studying a crime
00:19:36 --> 00:19:39 scene that is 4 billion years old are
00:19:39 --> 00:19:40 we're trying to piece together all the
00:19:40 --> 00:19:42 clues and we're trying to piece together
00:19:42 --> 00:19:44 a narrative that explains what we see
00:19:44 --> 00:19:46 that makes sense that fits together and
00:19:46 --> 00:19:48 there will always be other
00:19:48 --> 00:19:50 possibilities that can explain it but
00:19:51 --> 00:19:53 with every bit of evidence we get what
00:19:53 --> 00:19:55 happens is that the number of possible
00:19:55 --> 00:19:58 explanations gets whittled down because
00:19:58 --> 00:20:00 new observation and new discovery will
00:20:00 --> 00:20:02 say that well this explanation no longer
00:20:02 --> 00:20:05 makes sense it no longer works so we're
00:20:05 --> 00:20:06 building towards this more robust
00:20:06 --> 00:20:08 understanding I mean personally my
00:20:08 --> 00:20:11 instinct is that it looks like an ocean
00:20:11 --> 00:20:13 it looks like what you would expect if
00:20:13 --> 00:20:15 an ocean had been there and the fact
00:20:15 --> 00:20:16 we're getting more and more evidence
00:20:16 --> 00:20:18 that supports that is really
00:20:18 --> 00:20:21 encouraging when when it becomes
00:20:21 --> 00:20:23 absolutely inde definitively accepted
00:20:23 --> 00:20:24 I'm not entirely sure but I'm sure rosn
00:20:24 --> 00:20:28 Franklin will really help with that I
00:20:28 --> 00:20:29 and we lucky because we've we've got a
00:20:29 --> 00:20:31 planet we can compare it to so we can
00:20:31 --> 00:20:34 see evidence here that equates to things
00:20:34 --> 00:20:36 there we can go okay well this is the
00:20:36 --> 00:20:38 same this is this is a piece of history
00:20:38 --> 00:20:42 that Earth shared with Mars and that
00:20:42 --> 00:20:44 that kind of Narrows down the
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46 possibilities significantly um we don't
00:20:46 --> 00:20:49 have to go there well we do but we don't
00:20:50 --> 00:20:52 have to go there directly sometimes to
00:20:52 --> 00:20:55 to sort of compare notes it's um it's
00:20:55 --> 00:20:57 fascinating it's Fab it's a really
00:20:57 --> 00:20:59 interesting contrast with with
00:20:59 --> 00:21:01 exoplanets so on the one hand we've got
00:21:01 --> 00:21:03 this one planetary system that we've
00:21:03 --> 00:21:05 known since we've known about the
00:21:05 --> 00:21:07 universe essentially where we've got
00:21:07 --> 00:21:09 incredibly fine levels of detail the
00:21:09 --> 00:21:11 fact that we can talk as we are doing
00:21:11 --> 00:21:14 here about a relatively small area on
00:21:14 --> 00:21:16 the surface of a given planet that we've
00:21:16 --> 00:21:17 imaged and where we're sending a
00:21:17 --> 00:21:19 spacecraft so we know the solar system
00:21:19 --> 00:21:22 objects in incredible Exquisite detail
00:21:22 --> 00:21:24 this wealth of information that's
00:21:24 --> 00:21:27 sometimes almost too overwhelming for us
00:21:27 --> 00:21:28 to actually be able to work out what
00:21:28 --> 00:21:31 that planets all about for exoplanets
00:21:31 --> 00:21:32 for most of them we only know that
00:21:32 --> 00:21:34 they're there and maybe how massive they
00:21:34 --> 00:21:36 are or how big they are but we know far
00:21:36 --> 00:21:38 more of them and more diversity so on
00:21:38 --> 00:21:39 the one hand we've got one system we
00:21:39 --> 00:21:41 know incredibly well with more than a
00:21:41 --> 00:21:43 million objects in it that we've studied
00:21:43 --> 00:21:45 for all the others we know one or two
00:21:45 --> 00:21:46 objects and we know a little bit about
00:21:46 --> 00:21:48 them but by learning more about them
00:21:48 --> 00:21:50 we'll learn more about the solar system
00:21:50 --> 00:21:52 and by better studying the planets in
00:21:52 --> 00:21:54 the solar system that gives us a ground
00:21:54 --> 00:21:56 truth to work from for ex planet so two
00:21:56 --> 00:21:57 fields that are very different but
00:21:57 --> 00:22:00 linked together really nicely yes indeed
00:22:00 --> 00:22:04 all right um really interesting history
00:22:04 --> 00:22:06 and and I suppose um just to add a
00:22:06 --> 00:22:07 little bit more to that we we look at
00:22:07 --> 00:22:09 the history of Earth and you know I
00:22:09 --> 00:22:11 still struggle to get my head around the
00:22:11 --> 00:22:13 fact that there used to be rainforests
00:22:13 --> 00:22:14 in
00:22:14 --> 00:22:17 Antarctica you know um these things have
00:22:17 --> 00:22:19 taken millions of years to change or
00:22:19 --> 00:22:20 tens of thousands of years in some
00:22:20 --> 00:22:22 circumstances so we shouldn't be
00:22:22 --> 00:22:26 surprised by a planet like Mars having
00:22:26 --> 00:22:28 had oceans and rivers and all those
00:22:28 --> 00:22:31 other things so yeah this is Space Nuts
00:22:31 --> 00:22:33 you're with Andrew Dunley and Professor
00:22:33 --> 00:22:38 jonty
00:22:38 --> 00:22:41 Horner Space Nuts now JY uh not your
00:22:42 --> 00:22:43 area of expertise but I know you've done
00:22:43 --> 00:22:46 your homework uh a
00:22:46 --> 00:22:48 protostar uh which I'll get you at
00:22:48 --> 00:22:52 explain give us a definition of uh is um
00:22:52 --> 00:22:55 soon going to disappear for what will be
00:22:55 --> 00:22:57 obvious reasons but it's part of a
00:22:57 --> 00:22:59 triple star system this is all very
00:22:59 --> 00:23:02 intriguing it is this is a star in the
00:23:02 --> 00:23:04 constellation Taurus that is kind of the
00:23:04 --> 00:23:07 archetypal example of a a Proto star
00:23:07 --> 00:23:09 that's nearly but not quite a fully
00:23:09 --> 00:23:11 grown star so it's a star that is still
00:23:11 --> 00:23:13 in the latter stages of forming
00:23:13 --> 00:23:15 finalizing its formation it's still
00:23:15 --> 00:23:17 condensing under Gravity it has got a
00:23:17 --> 00:23:19 bit of nuclear fusion going on but it's
00:23:19 --> 00:23:20 not settled down it's not become what we
00:23:20 --> 00:23:22 call a main sequence sty like the some
00:23:22 --> 00:23:25 yet um now it's relatively bright and
00:23:25 --> 00:23:27 easy to study so that means amate
00:23:27 --> 00:23:30 astronom around the world are getting
00:23:30 --> 00:23:32 measurements of the brightness of this
00:23:32 --> 00:23:34 star all the time it's about magnitude
00:23:34 --> 00:23:37 12 magnitude 11-ish which means that it
00:23:37 --> 00:23:39 is about 100 to 200 times too fancy with
00:23:39 --> 00:23:41 a naked eye but it's well within the
00:23:41 --> 00:23:43 reach of amate telescopes and we've got
00:23:43 --> 00:23:45 this long history of observations of it
00:23:45 --> 00:23:47 now as we got better observations of it
00:23:48 --> 00:23:49 and the area that's in it's part of a
00:23:49 --> 00:23:52 huge star fing area when observations
00:23:53 --> 00:23:54 started coming in in the infrared it was
00:23:54 --> 00:23:56 revealed that there were two other Proto
00:23:56 --> 00:23:58 Stars nearby that you can't see in
00:23:58 --> 00:24:00 Optical you can't see them with
00:24:00 --> 00:24:02 telescopes um so this then became known
00:24:03 --> 00:24:04 as Tori North and the other two were
00:24:04 --> 00:24:07 Tori South a and Tori South B and it
00:24:07 --> 00:24:09 turns out that all three of them are
00:24:09 --> 00:24:10 moving together so you've essentially
00:24:10 --> 00:24:14 got Tori South A and B is a much closer
00:24:14 --> 00:24:16 binary with a circumbinary disc of
00:24:16 --> 00:24:19 material a disc from which planets are
00:24:19 --> 00:24:20 probably forming as we speak and that
00:24:20 --> 00:24:22 disc is really thick and it just so
00:24:22 --> 00:24:25 happens that that dis is Edge on to us
00:24:25 --> 00:24:27 so the light from those Stars trying to
00:24:27 --> 00:24:30 reach us is passing through the dis and
00:24:30 --> 00:24:32 absorbed we can't see it optically
00:24:32 --> 00:24:34 there's more than 20 magnitudes of
00:24:34 --> 00:24:35 Extinction which means if those Stars
00:24:35 --> 00:24:38 would normally be magnitude 10 or 11
00:24:38 --> 00:24:40 they're instead magnitude 30 or 31 and
00:24:40 --> 00:24:42 just Way Beyond anything we can observe
00:24:42 --> 00:24:44 but infrared radiation can make it
00:24:44 --> 00:24:45 through the dust so we can see that
00:24:45 --> 00:24:49 they're there then Tori North the style
00:24:49 --> 00:24:52 we've always known as Tori is a bit away
00:24:52 --> 00:24:53 from those Stars also orbiting their
00:24:53 --> 00:24:55 common center of gravity the kind of
00:24:55 --> 00:24:58 third component of the triple system and
00:24:58 --> 00:25:00 too has a Proto plantry disc it's got a
00:25:00 --> 00:25:02 disc around it where planets forming as
00:25:02 --> 00:25:04 well but fortunately for us instead of
00:25:04 --> 00:25:06 being Edge on that disc is tilted so
00:25:06 --> 00:25:08 that we can see directly to the star so
00:25:08 --> 00:25:11 we see Tori and it's bright and we can
00:25:11 --> 00:25:13 observe it and we've learned a lot from
00:25:13 --> 00:25:15 it but over the last couple of years
00:25:15 --> 00:25:17 those amateur astronomers that have been
00:25:17 --> 00:25:19 reporting its magnitude and studying it
00:25:19 --> 00:25:21 continuously have seen it fade a couple
00:25:21 --> 00:25:23 of times by one or two magnitudes then
00:25:23 --> 00:25:25 brighten up again and that caught
00:25:25 --> 00:25:26 people's interest because you wouldn't
00:25:26 --> 00:25:28 really expect this Proto start to be
00:25:28 --> 00:25:31 variable like that so there's something
00:25:31 --> 00:25:33 interesting going on and as we've got
00:25:33 --> 00:25:36 more information and better images from
00:25:36 --> 00:25:38 the professional telescopes what it
00:25:38 --> 00:25:39 appears to be is that that orbital
00:25:39 --> 00:25:41 motion of the binary star and then the
00:25:41 --> 00:25:44 extra component tour it that orbital
00:25:44 --> 00:25:46 motion I think the orbital period is
00:25:46 --> 00:25:50 about 4 years and slowly over time
00:25:50 --> 00:25:51 the more distant component the one we
00:25:51 --> 00:25:54 can see is moving so that it's going to
00:25:54 --> 00:25:57 pass behind the disc of material around
00:25:57 --> 00:25:59 the binary and we know that that disc is
00:25:59 --> 00:26:01 thick enough to obscure the binary and
00:26:01 --> 00:26:04 Tori is going to be ducking behind it so
00:26:04 --> 00:26:06 what that means is that those dimming
00:26:06 --> 00:26:08 we've seen have essentially been the
00:26:08 --> 00:26:11 light from that star passing through the
00:26:11 --> 00:26:13 outskirts of this disc of material and
00:26:13 --> 00:26:15 in the coming years therefore it's going
00:26:15 --> 00:26:17 to be moving properly behind that disc
00:26:17 --> 00:26:18 so long as we've got the orbital
00:26:19 --> 00:26:21 martition right and we'll gradually dim
00:26:21 --> 00:26:22 to the point we won't be able to see it
00:26:22 --> 00:26:24 with the optical insurance you know with
00:26:24 --> 00:26:26 these telescopes that the amateurs are
00:26:26 --> 00:26:29 using it'll Fade Away Fade to Black
00:26:29 --> 00:26:31 still be visible in the infrared but
00:26:31 --> 00:26:33 it'll take about a 100 years for it to
00:26:33 --> 00:26:36 Traverse behind this disc before it
00:26:36 --> 00:26:39 starts to reappear again so from the
00:26:39 --> 00:26:41 point of view of optical observers the
00:26:41 --> 00:26:42 next few years will be interesting as it
00:26:42 --> 00:26:45 fades out but for professional
00:26:45 --> 00:26:47 astronomers it's a really promising and
00:26:47 --> 00:26:49 valuable opportunity because if we can
00:26:49 --> 00:26:50 predict this in advance and we can see
00:26:50 --> 00:26:51 it
00:26:51 --> 00:26:54 happening then we can do observations of
00:26:54 --> 00:26:57 the light from that protostar as it
00:26:57 --> 00:26:58 passes through the outskirt of the disc
00:26:58 --> 00:27:00 and as it moves through the disk which
00:27:00 --> 00:27:02 allows us to probe different locations
00:27:02 --> 00:27:04 in the disc get an idea of what the
00:27:04 --> 00:27:06 chemistry of the disc's like what the
00:27:06 --> 00:27:08 particle size distribution is are is it
00:27:08 --> 00:27:10 mainly small particles are the bigger
00:27:10 --> 00:27:12 bits in that how is the planet formation
00:27:12 --> 00:27:15 process progressing we can almost get a
00:27:15 --> 00:27:16 density profile as the star moves
00:27:16 --> 00:27:19 through it's like scanning at different
00:27:19 --> 00:27:21 locations so it is simultaneously a
00:27:21 --> 00:27:22 little bit sound because the star's
00:27:22 --> 00:27:24 going to go away I mean it's coming back
00:27:24 --> 00:27:26 so it's not the end of the world but
00:27:26 --> 00:27:28 it's also really really exciting because
00:27:28 --> 00:27:30 it should be such a wealth of scientific
00:27:30 --> 00:27:32 information for us to better understand
00:27:32 --> 00:27:33 how planets
00:27:33 --> 00:27:37 form speaking of the end of the world is
00:27:37 --> 00:27:40 is this the development of a three body
00:27:40 --> 00:27:43 problem possibly now Triple Star systems
00:27:43 --> 00:27:46 like this are not that uncommon I mean a
00:27:46 --> 00:27:48 common joke among astronomers which
00:27:48 --> 00:27:49 probably tells you that astronomers
00:27:49 --> 00:27:51 aren't very funny is that more than one
00:27:51 --> 00:27:53 in every one star is in a multiple star
00:27:54 --> 00:27:57 system yeah um which it's a bit specious
00:27:57 --> 00:28:00 really so the reality seems to be that
00:28:00 --> 00:28:03 around 50% of stars give or take so this
00:28:03 --> 00:28:05 is a hand waving number it could be as
00:28:05 --> 00:28:08 low as 40% as high 60% but roughly 50%
00:28:08 --> 00:28:11 of stars are single which means the
00:28:11 --> 00:28:12 other half of stars are all in multiple
00:28:12 --> 00:28:16 star systems so to clarify this I'm not
00:28:16 --> 00:28:17 talking about the individual stars but
00:28:17 --> 00:28:20 I'm on about the systems as we see them
00:28:20 --> 00:28:22 yes so 50% of star systems are stars on
00:28:22 --> 00:28:25 their own 50% of star systems are not
00:28:25 --> 00:28:27 stars on their own which means that the
00:28:27 --> 00:28:29 major majority of stars are in multiple
00:28:29 --> 00:28:32 star systems because of the numbers even
00:28:32 --> 00:28:34 if you just assume that the other 50%
00:28:34 --> 00:28:36 are double Stars before you get to these
00:28:36 --> 00:28:39 higher level hierarchical things 50% of
00:28:39 --> 00:28:41 systems have two stars 50% have one star
00:28:41 --> 00:28:43 so that means two-thirds of stars are in
00:28:43 --> 00:28:46 double systems it's more complex but
00:28:46 --> 00:28:47 yeah it shows that astronomers don't
00:28:47 --> 00:28:50 have a great sense of humor but what it
00:28:50 --> 00:28:53 also points out is that multiple star
00:28:53 --> 00:28:54 systems are far from the exception
00:28:54 --> 00:28:57 they're really the norm and we're seeing
00:28:57 --> 00:28:58 Planet formation happening in these
00:28:58 --> 00:29:00 systems and we're discovering planets in
00:29:00 --> 00:29:02 them we found planets that are almost
00:29:02 --> 00:29:04 kind of analogs to tapine from Star Wars
00:29:04 --> 00:29:06 where there are two stars in the middle
00:29:06 --> 00:29:08 quite close together and the planets
00:29:08 --> 00:29:10 orbiting on the outside orbiting both of
00:29:10 --> 00:29:12 them at once we've also seen systems
00:29:12 --> 00:29:14 where there are two stars that are quite
00:29:14 --> 00:29:15 widely separated and the planet's going
00:29:15 --> 00:29:17 around one of them we found planets in
00:29:18 --> 00:29:19 triple and quadruple star systems as
00:29:19 --> 00:29:21 well and this is just going to be
00:29:21 --> 00:29:23 another one of those types of systems
00:29:23 --> 00:29:25 setting up for the
00:29:25 --> 00:29:29 future okay we we do see on Earth that
00:29:29 --> 00:29:31 issue of single and multiple star
00:29:31 --> 00:29:34 systems um you've got solo artists and
00:29:34 --> 00:29:36 you've got bands absolutely yeah they're
00:29:36 --> 00:29:40 all made up of stars some of them um yes
00:29:40 --> 00:29:44 um fascinating story and uh we we'll
00:29:44 --> 00:29:46 watch with interest how many billion
00:29:46 --> 00:29:48 years before we know the result of this
00:29:48 --> 00:29:50 we we should see it happening over the
00:29:50 --> 00:29:51 next few years now I should say that
00:29:51 --> 00:29:53 this isn't without precedent and Keen
00:29:53 --> 00:29:55 amateur astronomers listening to the
00:29:55 --> 00:29:56 podcast will be aware of a star called
00:29:56 --> 00:29:58 Epsilon orri
00:29:58 --> 00:30:01 which confused people for ages so we've
00:30:01 --> 00:30:03 known about variable stars for a long
00:30:03 --> 00:30:05 time the traditional owners of the land
00:30:05 --> 00:30:07 here in Australia have been very aware
00:30:07 --> 00:30:09 of the intrinsic variability of styles
00:30:09 --> 00:30:12 like Beetle Juice and alabon which vary
00:30:12 --> 00:30:14 kind of spasmodically over a periods of
00:30:14 --> 00:30:15 a few hundred days but we were also
00:30:15 --> 00:30:18 aware of eclipsing binary stars and a
00:30:18 --> 00:30:21 great astronomer called um goodrick way
00:30:21 --> 00:30:24 back couple of hundred years ago um
00:30:24 --> 00:30:26 figured out the reason for this he's a
00:30:26 --> 00:30:28 fascinating character to about he died
00:30:28 --> 00:30:30 very young I mean he was an amateur
00:30:30 --> 00:30:33 astronomer but he explained the periodic
00:30:33 --> 00:30:35 variations of the star alal the Winking
00:30:35 --> 00:30:37 demon Star by explaining that there were
00:30:37 --> 00:30:39 two stars going around each other and
00:30:39 --> 00:30:40 when they blocked each other out the
00:30:40 --> 00:30:42 light would dim and you get the star
00:30:42 --> 00:30:44 dimming every few days by enough to see
00:30:44 --> 00:30:46 with a naked eye and then brightening
00:30:46 --> 00:30:48 again so we kind of understood that but
00:30:48 --> 00:30:51 Epsilon origi really puzzled people for
00:30:51 --> 00:30:53 a long time it's a star in the northern
00:30:53 --> 00:30:54 constellation of Ria you can see it from
00:30:54 --> 00:30:56 Australia but it's quite low to the
00:30:56 --> 00:30:59 north that every 20 seven years or so
00:30:59 --> 00:31:02 dims for a couple of years by more than
00:31:02 --> 00:31:04 a magnitude so this again is easy to see
00:31:04 --> 00:31:07 with a naked eye but you can't explain
00:31:07 --> 00:31:09 that as a binary star that isn't one
00:31:09 --> 00:31:11 star passing in front of another because
00:31:11 --> 00:31:12 it doesn't take two years for the
00:31:12 --> 00:31:15 eclipse to happen that s would have to
00:31:15 --> 00:31:16 be immeasurably vast and therefore
00:31:16 --> 00:31:19 should be really bright or really red
00:31:19 --> 00:31:21 doesn't happen over the last 50 years or
00:31:21 --> 00:31:24 so people realized the explanation for
00:31:24 --> 00:31:26 that was probably that this was a binary
00:31:26 --> 00:31:28 star system where the second star in the
00:31:28 --> 00:31:31 system had a really big disc around it a
00:31:31 --> 00:31:33 protoplanetary disc and this was finally
00:31:33 --> 00:31:35 confirmed with the most recent of the
00:31:35 --> 00:31:37 dimming where we finally got to the
00:31:37 --> 00:31:39 technology point where we can do it so
00:31:40 --> 00:31:41 it's a similar story to the one we've
00:31:41 --> 00:31:44 just talked about but that's kind of the
00:31:44 --> 00:31:46 archetypal system where you've got an
00:31:47 --> 00:31:49 eclipse caused by the disc rather than
00:31:49 --> 00:31:51 the star and because the dis is big in
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53 the case of Epsilon origi it's probably
00:31:53 --> 00:31:54 bigger than the distance between the
00:31:54 --> 00:31:57 Earth and Pluto probably about 50 Au in
00:31:57 --> 00:32:00 radius Au across where One AU is a
00:32:00 --> 00:32:02 distance from the Earth to the Sun and
00:32:02 --> 00:32:04 that takes a couple of years as it's
00:32:04 --> 00:32:05 moving around in its orbit to pass in
00:32:05 --> 00:32:07 front of the background star the
00:32:07 --> 00:32:09 brighter star causing it to dim causing
00:32:09 --> 00:32:12 that behavior and this is just another
00:32:12 --> 00:32:13 example of that but in this case the
00:32:13 --> 00:32:16 disc is much thicker so Tori will
00:32:16 --> 00:32:17 essentially
00:32:17 --> 00:32:23 disappear okay but not
00:32:23 --> 00:32:27 forever and I feel fine Space Nuts um
00:32:27 --> 00:32:29 let's very quickly look at One More
00:32:29 --> 00:32:33 Story um I I this is this is something
00:32:33 --> 00:32:35 that Fred and I talk about quite
00:32:35 --> 00:32:37 regularly so I'm sure he'll raise it
00:32:37 --> 00:32:39 again um when he gets back but uh there
00:32:39 --> 00:32:42 are concerns about light pollut
00:32:42 --> 00:32:45 pollution affecting the extremely large
00:32:45 --> 00:32:48 telescope now this is a real worry
00:32:48 --> 00:32:50 because this telescope's probably one of
00:32:50 --> 00:32:54 the more significant ones on the planet
00:32:54 --> 00:32:56 and yeah there there are a few people
00:32:56 --> 00:32:59 getting their feathers ruffled by this
00:32:59 --> 00:33:01 it is and the story here like I said we
00:33:01 --> 00:33:03 just cover it briefly and I'm sure Fred
00:33:03 --> 00:33:04 will dive into it in a bit more detail
00:33:04 --> 00:33:06 we'll hopefully get solved that's the
00:33:06 --> 00:33:07 first thing today it's still early days
00:33:08 --> 00:33:09 with this but the extremely large
00:33:09 --> 00:33:11 telescope is built on top of what's
00:33:11 --> 00:33:13 called Sero
00:33:13 --> 00:33:17 amazones this peak in Chile atama desert
00:33:17 --> 00:33:19 that is basically one of the darkest
00:33:19 --> 00:33:22 sites on the planet and this site was
00:33:22 --> 00:33:24 specifically chosen because so little
00:33:24 --> 00:33:27 light pollution that it would facilitate
00:33:27 --> 00:33:28 the incredible work this enormous
00:33:28 --> 00:33:29 telescope is going to do and this
00:33:29 --> 00:33:33 telescope is you know something like um
00:33:33 --> 00:33:34 a billion dollar project it's a really
00:33:35 --> 00:33:36 expensive thing maybe even more than
00:33:36 --> 00:33:39 that that it's been built there Sur is
00:33:39 --> 00:33:41 fully on board obviously building it on
00:33:41 --> 00:33:44 their land the S has been bought it's
00:33:44 --> 00:33:46 going to be an expensive deal to make
00:33:46 --> 00:33:48 but there are real concerns now because
00:33:48 --> 00:33:50 there is an American company that is
00:33:50 --> 00:33:52 wanting to build a renewable energy
00:33:52 --> 00:33:55 plant and it's going to be a huge plant
00:33:55 --> 00:33:58 it's primarily to manufacture hydrogen
00:33:58 --> 00:33:59 but it's also going to have huge amounts
00:33:59 --> 00:34:01 of solar panels and things like that and
00:34:01 --> 00:34:04 that is a 10 billion do scale project
00:34:04 --> 00:34:06 but they want to build this within just
00:34:06 --> 00:34:09 a few kilometers of the site for a lot
00:34:09 --> 00:34:10 of these telescopes like the site for
00:34:10 --> 00:34:13 the very large telescop stuff like this
00:34:13 --> 00:34:15 now that is a real concern because this
00:34:15 --> 00:34:17 will generate a huge amount of light
00:34:17 --> 00:34:20 pollution because it'll be lit up
00:34:20 --> 00:34:23 essentially um and that it is thought
00:34:23 --> 00:34:25 would possibly reduce the effectiveness
00:34:25 --> 00:34:26 of both the telescopes that are already
00:34:26 --> 00:34:28 there but also the extreme a large
00:34:28 --> 00:34:32 telescope by 10% or more which is a huge
00:34:32 --> 00:34:34 impact and it really lessens the
00:34:34 --> 00:34:36 relevance of that telescope when he's
00:34:36 --> 00:34:37 trying to do Cutting Edge stuff when
00:34:37 --> 00:34:39 he's trying to compete with the giant
00:34:39 --> 00:34:42 mellan telescope and if it ever gets big
00:34:42 --> 00:34:43 built the one that they were going to
00:34:43 --> 00:34:45 put on Hawaii as well although that's
00:34:45 --> 00:34:47 still under debate the 30 meter
00:34:47 --> 00:34:50 telescope now this isn't insurmountable
00:34:50 --> 00:34:53 the Chileans have said that this project
00:34:53 --> 00:34:56 is only in the early stages of proposal
00:34:56 --> 00:34:58 the people involved with the building of
00:34:58 --> 00:34:59 the telescope have pointed out that
00:34:59 --> 00:35:02 there is no specific reason why the site
00:35:02 --> 00:35:03 that's proposed for the renewable energy
00:35:03 --> 00:35:05 planet is the only place they could
00:35:05 --> 00:35:07 build it they could build it somewhere
00:35:07 --> 00:35:10 else but it's a real challenge because
00:35:10 --> 00:35:11 you're talking about A1 and a half
00:35:11 --> 00:35:14 billion dollar telescope versus a 10
00:35:14 --> 00:35:16 billion Industrial Park that'll create
00:35:16 --> 00:35:18 jobs so I can understand the conflict
00:35:18 --> 00:35:22 for the trillian government but also if
00:35:22 --> 00:35:23 you can find a happy medium where the
00:35:23 --> 00:35:25 two don't interfere with each other
00:35:25 --> 00:35:27 that'll be brilliant particularly if
00:35:27 --> 00:35:29 they Observatory can then make use of
00:35:29 --> 00:35:31 the renewable energy incl its energy
00:35:31 --> 00:35:33 budget it it's one of these situations
00:35:33 --> 00:35:35 like many that isn't truly black and
00:35:36 --> 00:35:38 white but is there's a lot of complexity
00:35:38 --> 00:35:40 a lot of Shades of Gray in it and the
00:35:40 --> 00:35:42 hope is that it gets sorted the Chilean
00:35:42 --> 00:35:45 impact agency that assesses these things
00:35:45 --> 00:35:47 put a statement out at the end of last
00:35:47 --> 00:35:49 year saying that the projects in it ear
00:35:49 --> 00:35:52 stages no decision has been made and I
00:35:52 --> 00:35:53 suspect the information has come out now
00:35:53 --> 00:35:56 to help ensure that people are aware of
00:35:56 --> 00:35:58 the problem so that the right decision
00:35:58 --> 00:36:00 gets made because you don't talk about
00:36:00 --> 00:36:02 it if nobody's aware of it mistakes get
00:36:02 --> 00:36:03 made and it's very hard to change it
00:36:03 --> 00:36:07 after the fact yes yes indeed but um it
00:36:07 --> 00:36:09 would it would be fairly tragic for the
00:36:09 --> 00:36:12 telescopes in the area because uh
00:36:12 --> 00:36:14 they're estimating that that renewable
00:36:14 --> 00:36:16 energy project would increase the
00:36:16 --> 00:36:19 brightness of the area by 10% that is a
00:36:19 --> 00:36:22 huge increase oh absolutely and I mean
00:36:22 --> 00:36:24 you see it everywhere I'm very aware
00:36:24 --> 00:36:26 where I live I've moved out a couple of
00:36:26 --> 00:36:27 years ago to this beautiful house that
00:36:27 --> 00:36:29 we're in now and it's got quite Dark
00:36:29 --> 00:36:32 Skies but they have built a new like
00:36:32 --> 00:36:34 Industrial Park about 15 K as a away
00:36:34 --> 00:36:36 that I pass every day going into work
00:36:36 --> 00:36:38 and one of the thing places there sells
00:36:38 --> 00:36:40 tractors um because we're a big
00:36:40 --> 00:36:42 agricultural area and their building is
00:36:42 --> 00:36:45 surrounded by flood lights to obviously
00:36:45 --> 00:36:48 illuminate things to prevent thieves or
00:36:48 --> 00:36:48 I always think that when you're
00:36:49 --> 00:36:50 Illuminating things like that what
00:36:50 --> 00:36:51 you're actually doing is giving you
00:36:51 --> 00:36:53 shopping list to the f look at all this
00:36:53 --> 00:36:54 fabulous stuff you could take away with
00:36:54 --> 00:36:57 you um but these flood lights have
00:36:57 --> 00:37:00 really noticeably from about 15 K away
00:37:00 --> 00:37:01 increased the brightness of the sky from
00:37:01 --> 00:37:04 my house to the southeast now I want to
00:37:04 --> 00:37:05 be looking to the north here so it's not
00:37:05 --> 00:37:07 the end of the world for me personally
00:37:07 --> 00:37:09 but it's a really good example of how a
00:37:09 --> 00:37:11 single piece of building a single
00:37:11 --> 00:37:14 project can hugely impact the light for
00:37:14 --> 00:37:16 a very large area around with no
00:37:16 --> 00:37:18 indication of malice people aren't doing
00:37:18 --> 00:37:20 this deliberately no but they're doing
00:37:20 --> 00:37:23 it in ignorance of the impact they have
00:37:23 --> 00:37:24 because they're not there themselves
00:37:24 --> 00:37:25 looking and they when they're looking
00:37:25 --> 00:37:26 they're looking at their products their
00:37:26 --> 00:37:28 local area
00:37:28 --> 00:37:30 it's a challenge and it's hard to get
00:37:30 --> 00:37:33 people's hearts and mind on board if you
00:37:33 --> 00:37:35 get aggressive and combative with it
00:37:35 --> 00:37:36 it's a lot better to try and discuss it
00:37:36 --> 00:37:38 and let people know because at the end
00:37:38 --> 00:37:41 of the day if they turn those spotlights
00:37:41 --> 00:37:43 and point them down that will mean less
00:37:43 --> 00:37:44 light pollution and the only thing it
00:37:44 --> 00:37:46 will mean from their point of view is
00:37:46 --> 00:37:47 that burglar is coming in by helicopter
00:37:47 --> 00:37:50 have a slightly
00:37:50 --> 00:37:54 EAS yes good point good point and that
00:37:54 --> 00:37:57 happens a lot oh absolutely yeah uh I'm
00:37:57 --> 00:37:59 sure Fred will be Keen to talk about
00:37:59 --> 00:38:01 this one having visited the area himself
00:38:02 --> 00:38:04 and and the work going on there he uh
00:38:05 --> 00:38:07 yeah this will really um be something
00:38:07 --> 00:38:11 that will bother him I expect anyway uh
00:38:11 --> 00:38:14 yes it's a work in progress but uh if
00:38:14 --> 00:38:15 you'd like to chase up any of the
00:38:15 --> 00:38:17 stories we've talked about today uh I
00:38:17 --> 00:38:19 think you'll find all of them on
00:38:19 --> 00:38:22 space.com fabulous website and uh yeah
00:38:22 --> 00:38:26 we we um uh we really appreciate the
00:38:26 --> 00:38:28 work they do and if you would like to
00:38:28 --> 00:38:30 chase anything up between episodes by
00:38:30 --> 00:38:32 all means go to our website you can
00:38:32 --> 00:38:34 check out the uh the notes on each
00:38:34 --> 00:38:38 episode at SPAC nuts podcast.com or SPAC
00:38:38 --> 00:38:39 nuts.i and while you're there have a
00:38:39 --> 00:38:42 look around uh you can visit the shop
00:38:42 --> 00:38:45 where you can get one of these this is a
00:38:45 --> 00:38:47 space nut shirt with our logo on it
00:38:47 --> 00:38:50 designed by my good brother Steve uh or
00:38:50 --> 00:38:52 you can uh hit the supporter button if
00:38:52 --> 00:38:53 you'd like to become a supporter of
00:38:53 --> 00:38:56 Space Nuts whatever floats your boat uh
00:38:56 --> 00:38:58 jonty thank you so much we'll catch you
00:38:58 --> 00:39:01 on the very next episode absolutely
00:39:01 --> 00:39:02 looking forward to it thank you for
00:39:02 --> 00:39:04 having me Professor Johny Horner
00:39:04 --> 00:39:06 professor of astrophysics at the
00:39:06 --> 00:39:08 University of Southern Queensland our
00:39:08 --> 00:39:11 expert voice on this episode of Space
00:39:11 --> 00:39:13 Nuts Center Hugh in the St Studio he
00:39:13 --> 00:39:15 couldn't find his way in because of the
00:39:15 --> 00:39:18 light pollution around his place and for
00:39:18 --> 00:39:19 me Andrew Dunley thanks for your company
00:39:19 --> 00:39:21 I'll catch you on the next episode of
00:39:21 --> 00:39:24 Space Nuts see you then bye-bye Space
00:39:24 --> 00:39:26 Nuts you'll been listening to the Space
00:39:26 --> 00:39:28 Nuts podcast
00:39:28 --> 00:39:31 available at Apple podcasts Spotify
00:39:31 --> 00:39:34 ihart radio or your favorite podcast
00:39:34 --> 00:39:36 player you can also stream on demand at
00:39:37 --> 00:39:39 bites.com this has been another quality
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