Fires on the Moon, Interstellar Glaciers, and Mayan Mathematics In this captivating episode of Space Nuts , hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson explore a range of extraordinary topics that bridge the gap between the familiar and the cosmic. From the unexpected phenomenon of fires on the Moon to the discovery of interstellar glaciers, and a deep dive into the mathematical brilliance of the Mayans, this episode is packed with insights that will ignite your curiosity.
Episode Highlights:
- Fires on the Moon: Andrew and Fred Watson discuss NASA's upcoming Flammability of Materials on the Moon Experiment (FM2), designed to investigate how fire behaves in lunar gravity. With safety as a priority, they explore the implications of this research for future lunar habitats and the challenges posed by combustion in a 1/6 gravity environment.
- Interstellar Glaciers: The hosts delve into the findings from NASA's SphereX, which has revealed the presence of galactic ice and the building blocks of life within molecular clouds. They discuss the significance of these discoveries for our understanding of water in the universe and the potential for life beyond Earth.
- The Mayan Calendar and Mathematics: In a fascinating exploration of ancient knowledge, Andrew and Fred Watson examine new research highlighting the sophisticated mathematical techniques used by the Mayans to predict astronomical events. They discuss how this insight reshapes our understanding of their civilization's intelligence and longevity.
- Artemis 2 Records: The episode wraps up with a quirky revelation about the Artemis 2 mission, where the distance between astronauts aboard Artemis and those on the Chinese space station Tiangong set a new record for human separation in space. The hosts reflect on the implications of this milestone for the future of human exploration.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
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Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/33181356?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Hi there. Thanks for joining us on
00:00:02 --> 00:00:04 another episode of Space Nuts, where we
00:00:04 --> 00:00:06 talk astronomy and space science. My
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 name is Andrew Dunley, your host. And
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 it's always good to have your company
00:00:10 --> 00:00:12 wherever you are, whatever you're doing.
00:00:12 --> 00:00:14 You might be in traffic, you might be in
00:00:14 --> 00:00:16 bed, staying awake. We uh we generally
00:00:16 --> 00:00:17 put people to sleep, but uh staying
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 awake. Um or you could be just hanging
00:00:21 --> 00:00:23 around the house doing whatever you need
00:00:23 --> 00:00:26 to do. Vacuuming, mowing the lawn.
00:00:26 --> 00:00:30 Yeah. All of that. Uh coming up in this
00:00:30 --> 00:00:32 edition, uh we're going to be talking
00:00:32 --> 00:00:36 about fires on the moon. What? How? Yes,
00:00:36 --> 00:00:40 it's a thing. Yes, it is, Jordy.
00:00:40 --> 00:00:42 Uh we're also
00:00:42 --> 00:00:46 We're also talking Interstellar glacias.
00:00:46 --> 00:00:49 Wow. Uh the Mayan calendar and another
00:00:49 --> 00:00:52 Artemus 2 record that's been set. We'll
00:00:52 --> 00:00:55 find out all about it on this episode of
00:00:55 --> 00:00:56 Space Nuts.
00:00:56 --> 00:01:01 >> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9
00:01:01 --> 00:01:02 ignition sequence start.
00:01:02 --> 00:01:03 >> Space nuts.
00:01:03 --> 00:01:08 >> 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1
00:01:08 --> 00:01:09 >> Space Nuts.
00:01:09 --> 00:01:12 >> Astronauts report. It feels good.
00:01:12 --> 00:01:14 >> Back again to help us understand all of
00:01:14 --> 00:01:16 that is Professor Fred Watson,
00:01:16 --> 00:01:18 astronomer at large. Hello, Fred.
00:01:18 --> 00:01:20 >> Hi, Andrew. Good to see you and good to
00:01:20 --> 00:01:22 speak with you.
00:01:22 --> 00:01:23 >> What's chilly day?
00:01:23 --> 00:01:26 >> What's up Jord's nose today? Uh, I think
00:01:26 --> 00:01:29 our um I think somebody's just arrived
00:01:30 --> 00:01:30 at the door.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:32 >> That's usually how he welcomes them.
00:01:32 --> 00:01:36 >> Yeah, it is. It is. I might just um need
00:01:36 --> 00:01:37 to go and check actually if you don't
00:01:37 --> 00:01:38 mind.
00:01:38 --> 00:01:40 >> Oh, okay. Yeah, we can do that.
00:01:40 --> 00:01:41 >> Yeah, you could talk to yourself for a
00:01:41 --> 00:01:41 minute.
00:01:42 --> 00:01:43 >> Yeah, I I'm very good at talking to
00:01:43 --> 00:01:47 myself. Yes. Um Jord's um I don't know
00:01:47 --> 00:01:49 what kind of terrier he is. He's a tiny
00:01:49 --> 00:01:51 little dog, but he's very very loud. And
00:01:51 --> 00:01:55 whenever anybody turns up, he absolutely
00:01:55 --> 00:01:59 goes off his buns. And um when Judy and
00:01:59 --> 00:02:02 I visited there late last year, we um we
00:02:02 --> 00:02:04 were welcomed by Jordy tearing down the
00:02:04 --> 00:02:08 stairs and um marked like a maniac. But
00:02:08 --> 00:02:10 um yeah, he he's harmless. He's
00:02:10 --> 00:02:11 absolutely harmless.
00:02:11 --> 00:02:14 >> Uh all is well, Fred. Is he okay?
00:02:14 --> 00:02:16 >> Yeah. Well, he's all right. Yeah, he's
00:02:16 --> 00:02:18 uh the people who turned up at the door,
00:02:18 --> 00:02:20 nobody um nobody opened the door for
00:02:20 --> 00:02:21 them, so they just let themselves in.
00:02:21 --> 00:02:22 That's all.
00:02:22 --> 00:02:24 >> Oh, right. Okay. That
00:02:24 --> 00:02:25 >> they're well known to us. Come.
00:02:25 --> 00:02:27 >> Yeah. Queenslanders do that a lot
00:02:27 --> 00:02:28 apparently.
00:02:28 --> 00:02:30 >> Oh, do they? When we moved to Queensland
00:02:30 --> 00:02:33 in 1987 after we got married, um our
00:02:33 --> 00:02:35 neighbors walked in and introduced
00:02:35 --> 00:02:38 themselves.
00:02:38 --> 00:02:38 >> Really?
00:02:38 --> 00:02:40 >> And we thought, "Oh, that's so weird."
00:02:40 --> 00:02:41 But no, it's not. It's just the way
00:02:42 --> 00:02:43 Queenslanders are up in up in the
00:02:43 --> 00:02:45 northern tropics. Yeah,
00:02:45 --> 00:02:48 >> completely different mindset, but um you
00:02:48 --> 00:02:50 get used to it. It's it's a lovely
00:02:50 --> 00:02:52 lifestyle.
00:02:52 --> 00:02:54 >> Uh shall we get down to business, Fred?
00:02:54 --> 00:02:56 >> Well, I suppose so.
00:02:56 --> 00:02:58 >> If we if we must.
00:02:58 --> 00:03:00 >> We we we probably should.
00:03:00 --> 00:03:00 >> Yeah.
00:03:00 --> 00:03:02 >> Uh let's start off with this um story
00:03:02 --> 00:03:04 about fires on the moon. Now, I've
00:03:04 --> 00:03:07 looked at the moon many times. I've
00:03:07 --> 00:03:09 never seen any brush fires or bush fires
00:03:09 --> 00:03:13 or forest fires or, you know, dune fires
00:03:13 --> 00:03:17 or mountain fires or crater fires. Uh, I
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19 got a suspicion this has got something
00:03:19 --> 00:03:23 to do with um something
00:03:23 --> 00:03:28 humanity is going to do uh when they get
00:03:28 --> 00:03:29 on the moon.
00:03:29 --> 00:03:30 >> Yep.
00:03:30 --> 00:03:33 Let's talk about this because uh fires
00:03:33 --> 00:03:36 on the moon sounds a little bit um I
00:03:36 --> 00:03:40 don't know impossible but
00:03:40 --> 00:03:42 it's a it's a thing or will be.
00:03:42 --> 00:03:44 >> It is a thing. It's it's a thing and
00:03:44 --> 00:03:47 it's all about understanding how fires
00:03:47 --> 00:03:49 burn on the moon. Um it's something
00:03:49 --> 00:03:52 called the flam flammability of
00:03:52 --> 00:03:55 materials on the moon experiment. uh
00:03:55 --> 00:03:58 otherwise abbreviated to FM2 uh
00:03:58 --> 00:04:00 developed by NASA uh in a number of
00:04:00 --> 00:04:02 their research centers, the Glenn
00:04:02 --> 00:04:05 Research Center, Johnson Space Center,
00:04:05 --> 00:04:07 East uh sorry, Case Western Reserve
00:04:07 --> 00:04:09 University. What they're doing is
00:04:09 --> 00:04:12 they're sending uh what's called a
00:04:12 --> 00:04:15 self-contained combustion chamber to the
00:04:15 --> 00:04:17 moon and it's going on one of these
00:04:18 --> 00:04:20 commercial lunar payload services
00:04:20 --> 00:04:23 flights uh that we sort of know about
00:04:23 --> 00:04:26 from uh from discussions we've had
00:04:26 --> 00:04:29 before where the you know basically
00:04:29 --> 00:04:34 private companies provide hardware uh to
00:04:34 --> 00:04:37 uh send on robotic missions to the moon
00:04:37 --> 00:04:39 to set up things for when humans are
00:04:39 --> 00:04:42 exploring the moon um a few years down
00:04:42 --> 00:04:47 the track. So, it's all about um safety
00:04:47 --> 00:04:49 actually, Andrew. Uh that's the bottom
00:04:50 --> 00:04:52 line for this. It's the uh the
00:04:52 --> 00:04:54 motivation
00:04:54 --> 00:04:56 because um there is a gap in our
00:04:56 --> 00:05:00 understanding of how fire works.
00:05:00 --> 00:05:03 Uh and that is because we understand how
00:05:03 --> 00:05:06 fire works here on the earth. um how the
00:05:06 --> 00:05:10 convection brings oxygen into the flame
00:05:10 --> 00:05:12 and keeps the fire burning. We
00:05:12 --> 00:05:15 understand how it works in zero gravity
00:05:15 --> 00:05:18 because experiments have been done uh on
00:05:18 --> 00:05:21 the International Space Station that uh
00:05:22 --> 00:05:25 allow uh scientists to uh estimate
00:05:25 --> 00:05:30 estimate um basically what the behavior
00:05:30 --> 00:05:33 of a fire would be in zero gravity. that
00:05:33 --> 00:05:36 um apparently a candle flame in zero
00:05:36 --> 00:05:38 gravity is just spherical.
00:05:38 --> 00:05:41 >> I I read that. That's um that's strange.
00:05:41 --> 00:05:45 And uh I mean we all know how horrible
00:05:45 --> 00:05:49 fires can be in in terms of um space
00:05:49 --> 00:05:51 travel that there have been tragedies
00:05:51 --> 00:05:54 over the years. um uh Apollo one in
00:05:54 --> 00:05:56 particular, but um uh there have been
00:05:56 --> 00:06:00 other incidents uh with fires and and uh
00:06:00 --> 00:06:03 and certain issues, but um what happens
00:06:03 --> 00:06:07 on Earth and what happens in zero G we
00:06:07 --> 00:06:10 know about what happens on the moon.
00:06:10 --> 00:06:11 >> That's what we don't know about.
00:06:11 --> 00:06:12 >> Yeah.
00:06:12 --> 00:06:15 >> Uh and so that's the um that's the
00:06:15 --> 00:06:18 reason for these tests. uh because
00:06:18 --> 00:06:20 scientists have actually raised concerns
00:06:20 --> 00:06:22 about the way fire might behave on the
00:06:22 --> 00:06:24 moon because it is different when you're
00:06:24 --> 00:06:27 in one sixth of the earth's gravity
00:06:27 --> 00:06:30 which is basically lunar lunar gravity.
00:06:30 --> 00:06:30 >> Yeah.
00:06:30 --> 00:06:33 >> Uh there's there is a standard um that
00:06:33 --> 00:06:38 is measured by NASA in terms of how
00:06:38 --> 00:06:44 things burn. It's called NASA-STD-60001B
00:06:44 --> 00:06:46 and it's what's called a vertical burn
00:06:46 --> 00:06:50 test. And I'm reading now from uh from a
00:06:50 --> 00:06:52 Space Daily article that describes this
00:06:52 --> 00:06:55 all very nicely. The current standard is
00:06:55 --> 00:06:57 a vertical burn test. A 6-in flame is
00:06:57 --> 00:07:00 held to the bottom of a vertically
00:07:00 --> 00:07:03 mounted sample. If the flame climbs more
00:07:03 --> 00:07:05 than six inches up the sample or if
00:07:05 --> 00:07:07 molten debris drips off and keeps
00:07:07 --> 00:07:10 burning, the material fails. It's a
00:07:10 --> 00:07:12 straightforward repeatable procedure and
00:07:12 --> 00:07:15 it's kept crews safe on shuttle
00:07:15 --> 00:07:17 international space station and every
00:07:17 --> 00:07:19 commercial vehicle that has followed.
00:07:19 --> 00:07:21 The test has hidden assumptions baked
00:07:21 --> 00:07:24 in. The buoyancy driven convection will
00:07:24 --> 00:07:26 behave the same way in flight as it did
00:07:26 --> 00:07:29 in the lab. For low Earth orbit,
00:07:29 --> 00:07:30 engineers have patched around this
00:07:30 --> 00:07:32 assumption with experience. For the
00:07:32 --> 00:07:34 lunar surface, there is no equivalent
00:07:34 --> 00:07:36 flight heritage to fall back on. In
00:07:36 --> 00:07:37 other words, we don't have any
00:07:38 --> 00:07:40 experience of how things behave in one
00:07:40 --> 00:07:42 sixth gravity.
00:07:42 --> 00:07:43 >> So, yeah. So,
00:07:43 --> 00:07:46 >> I I would I would assume that u knowing
00:07:46 --> 00:07:49 what we know about fire on Earth and in
00:07:49 --> 00:07:51 zero gravity with a little bit of
00:07:52 --> 00:07:54 gravity on the moon, it' be different
00:07:54 --> 00:07:56 again.
00:07:56 --> 00:08:01 Yes, that's right. Um, it's it's uh once
00:08:01 --> 00:08:04 again um looking at uh the space daily
00:08:04 --> 00:08:08 piece which is very very nicely uh
00:08:08 --> 00:08:10 encapsulates what these experiments are
00:08:10 --> 00:08:15 about. Um there have been tests done uh
00:08:15 --> 00:08:18 inside uh uncrrewed
00:08:18 --> 00:08:21 um actually they were the signis ones
00:08:21 --> 00:08:24 not the dragon capsules uh signis cargo
00:08:24 --> 00:08:28 capsules uh uh before they re-enter and
00:08:28 --> 00:08:29 burn up in the atmosphere. There have
00:08:29 --> 00:08:32 been uh what are called sapphire tests
00:08:32 --> 00:08:35 the spacecraft fire safety series. I
00:08:35 --> 00:08:37 think you and I spoke about that
00:08:37 --> 00:08:39 probably a couple of years ago. Mhm.
00:08:39 --> 00:08:42 >> Um so what you do is you deliberately
00:08:42 --> 00:08:46 ignite samples of the material uh and
00:08:46 --> 00:08:48 and look at how the flames behave and
00:08:48 --> 00:08:51 sometimes actually they they they spread
00:08:52 --> 00:08:53 in the opposite direction to the way the
00:08:53 --> 00:08:56 air flows coming. Um and also apparently
00:08:56 --> 00:08:59 they burn hotter on thinner materials.
00:08:59 --> 00:09:01 And that's all great, but that's that's
00:09:01 --> 00:09:03 microgravity. That's effectively zero
00:09:03 --> 00:09:07 gravity. And it is a different physical
00:09:07 --> 00:09:09 regime as they put it from partial
00:09:09 --> 00:09:13 gravity combustion. Uh which is what we
00:09:13 --> 00:09:15 will experience on the moon. Uh all
00:09:15 --> 00:09:19 these items uh once again uh a very nice
00:09:19 --> 00:09:21 summary here. The flame shape, the flow
00:09:21 --> 00:09:23 structure, the soot chemistry and the
00:09:23 --> 00:09:26 spread rate all respond nonlinearly to
00:09:26 --> 00:09:29 the gravitational acceleration.
00:09:29 --> 00:09:31 So uh you can't really it's not
00:09:31 --> 00:09:35 something you can simulate. Um you can
00:09:35 --> 00:09:36 you know you can certainly simulate
00:09:36 --> 00:09:39 weightlessness either with by dropping
00:09:39 --> 00:09:41 things off big towers. Uh that's one way
00:09:41 --> 00:09:43 of simulating weightlessness. Yeah. Um
00:09:44 --> 00:09:46 and it's what was in Einstein's head
00:09:46 --> 00:09:47 when he worked out the special the sorry
00:09:48 --> 00:09:49 the general theory of relativity how
00:09:49 --> 00:09:51 gravity works. And then there are those
00:09:51 --> 00:09:53 parabolic aircraft flights that we often
00:09:53 --> 00:09:56 refer to as the vomit comet uh for um
00:09:56 --> 00:09:59 for humans. But not none of those are
00:10:00 --> 00:10:03 long enough period um in in order to to
00:10:03 --> 00:10:05 simulate how things go when something
00:10:05 --> 00:10:08 catches fire. Uh and of course they are
00:10:08 --> 00:10:12 all microgravity. Um so this FM2
00:10:12 --> 00:10:14 experiment is designed to be
00:10:14 --> 00:10:17 self-contained. It's a sealed cont
00:10:18 --> 00:10:20 chamber contains four solid fuel
00:10:20 --> 00:10:23 samples. uh and they will go to one of
00:10:23 --> 00:10:26 these commercial lunar program uh uh
00:10:26 --> 00:10:29 landers uh on the surface. Um and
00:10:29 --> 00:10:32 apparently the samples, the burning
00:10:32 --> 00:10:35 samples are lit one after another uh and
00:10:35 --> 00:10:36 there are all sorts of cameras and
00:10:36 --> 00:10:39 radiometers and oxygen sensors,
00:10:39 --> 00:10:42 temperature gauges, all of that stuff to
00:10:42 --> 00:10:44 look at the the flame geometry and uh
00:10:44 --> 00:10:47 how much heat comes from it, h how much
00:10:47 --> 00:10:50 of the oxygen is is consumed. So all
00:10:50 --> 00:10:54 that is um is going to teach us what
00:10:54 --> 00:10:57 might happen if something went wrong
00:10:57 --> 00:10:59 when you have astronauts walking on the
00:10:59 --> 00:11:00 moon. Uh if you have a you know some
00:11:00 --> 00:11:04 sort of um habitat uh where a where a
00:11:04 --> 00:11:07 fire is induced or catches fire whatever
00:11:07 --> 00:11:10 um we should from from these experiments
00:11:10 --> 00:11:12 we should know how to deal with it which
00:11:12 --> 00:11:14 we don't at the moment.
00:11:14 --> 00:11:16 >> Yeah. Uh, one of the points in the
00:11:16 --> 00:11:18 article I thought was interesting was
00:11:18 --> 00:11:21 that uh, there could be materials that
00:11:21 --> 00:11:24 exist on Earth that are certified, you
00:11:24 --> 00:11:27 know, agrade fire retardant. You know,
00:11:27 --> 00:11:29 nothing to worry about here, but that
00:11:29 --> 00:11:31 might not be the case with the same
00:11:31 --> 00:11:33 material on the moon.
00:11:33 --> 00:11:35 >> Exactly. That's right. So, that's what
00:11:35 --> 00:11:37 this is all about. And it is it's common
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39 sense really when you think about it.
00:11:39 --> 00:11:42 It's and it's a lot better to send a a
00:11:42 --> 00:11:45 self-contained experiment to the moon um
00:11:45 --> 00:11:47 rather than getting somebody standing on
00:11:47 --> 00:11:49 the moon to light a match in a habitat
00:11:49 --> 00:11:50 and see what happens. It's
00:11:50 --> 00:11:52 >> yes,
00:11:52 --> 00:11:53 >> that will not be good.
00:11:53 --> 00:11:55 >> And I I suppose long term we're going to
00:11:55 --> 00:11:58 see all sorts of facilities on the moon.
00:11:58 --> 00:12:00 We're going to have as you said habitat,
00:12:00 --> 00:12:04 but there'll be there'll be um labs, you
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07 know, um um all sorts of spaces for all
00:12:07 --> 00:12:09 sorts of different things. probably
00:12:09 --> 00:12:11 things we haven't even thought of yet.
00:12:11 --> 00:12:14 Uh there'll be um you know they're
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16 talking about making rocket fuel on the
00:12:16 --> 00:12:19 moon. Now there's a fire hazard
00:12:19 --> 00:12:20 >> if if ever there was one. That's right.
00:12:20 --> 00:12:23 If you're separating hydrogen and oxygen
00:12:23 --> 00:12:25 when they come back together they Yep.
00:12:25 --> 00:12:27 There's a fire hazard. Absolutely right.
00:12:27 --> 00:12:29 >> Yeah. So there's there's a lot to take
00:12:29 --> 00:12:31 into consideration. So, it's uh it's
00:12:32 --> 00:12:33 it's it's obviously something that they
00:12:33 --> 00:12:35 really need to figure out and this
00:12:35 --> 00:12:37 sounds like a very good way of doing it,
00:12:37 --> 00:12:40 a controlled experiment. Um, and and
00:12:40 --> 00:12:42 they does it say when they're planning
00:12:42 --> 00:12:44 to do this? It shouldn't be too long
00:12:44 --> 00:12:45 away.
00:12:45 --> 00:12:46 >> No, that's right. I think it's on an
00:12:46 --> 00:12:49 upcoming uh uh one of these commercial
00:12:49 --> 00:12:52 flights. I can't see a date in it
00:12:52 --> 00:12:54 >> uh in this piece, but um uh yeah, I'm
00:12:54 --> 00:12:56 sure we'll we'll find about the results
00:12:56 --> 00:12:58 when they've when they've actually
00:12:58 --> 00:13:01 happened. Yeah, indeed. All right. U if
00:13:01 --> 00:13:03 you'd like to read all about it, you can
00:13:03 --> 00:13:06 find that story at spaceaily.com
00:13:06 --> 00:13:07 and you could probably find it on the
00:13:07 --> 00:13:10 NASA website as well. This is Space Nuts
00:13:10 --> 00:13:13 with Andrew Dunley and Professor Fred
00:13:13 --> 00:13:19 Watson
00:13:19 --> 00:13:21 base here. The angle has landed.
00:13:21 --> 00:13:22 >> Space nets.
00:13:22 --> 00:13:25 >> Now, Fred, we move from the moon to
00:13:25 --> 00:13:28 beyond. Uh we're going way out in fact
00:13:28 --> 00:13:31 uh to interstellar regions of the
00:13:31 --> 00:13:37 universe uh where NASA has um discovered
00:13:37 --> 00:13:40 galactic ice. They're describing them as
00:13:40 --> 00:13:43 interstellar glacias.
00:13:43 --> 00:13:45 >> Indeed. That's right. So yes, from fire
00:13:45 --> 00:13:47 to ice. It's almost almost like being
00:13:47 --> 00:13:50 being on Iceland where you've got them
00:13:50 --> 00:13:53 together. Um and this is um uh a story
00:13:53 --> 00:13:57 that comes from um research that has
00:13:57 --> 00:13:59 been done using a spacecraft that you
00:13:59 --> 00:14:00 and I I think we talked about it when it
00:14:00 --> 00:14:03 was launched um but we don't often
00:14:04 --> 00:14:06 mention it and it is producing some
00:14:06 --> 00:14:08 quite significant results. It's called
00:14:08 --> 00:14:11 Sphere X uh which is an acronym for
00:14:11 --> 00:14:14 spectrophotometer for the history of the
00:14:14 --> 00:14:18 universe epoch of reionization and ISIS
00:14:18 --> 00:14:22 explorer. I would have guessed that.
00:14:22 --> 00:14:24 >> Yes, I'm sure you would if you were, you
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26 know, 20 years to think about what it
00:14:26 --> 00:14:28 might be because I certainly wouldn't.
00:14:28 --> 00:14:31 >> Um, but what it's been doing is, uh, so
00:14:31 --> 00:14:33 that it's a basically a survey
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35 spacecraft. It's got wide angle
00:14:35 --> 00:14:40 telescopes. uh it has um it's basically
00:14:40 --> 00:14:43 it takes images but it takes them
00:14:43 --> 00:14:46 through I think it's 102 different
00:14:46 --> 00:14:49 different color filters uh which which
00:14:49 --> 00:14:53 uh these color filters are centered on
00:14:53 --> 00:14:56 key wavelengths in the spectrum uh which
00:14:56 --> 00:15:00 allows you to image you know see what
00:15:00 --> 00:15:03 where all the iron atoms are see where
00:15:03 --> 00:15:05 all the calcium atoms are see where all
00:15:05 --> 00:15:07 the hydrogen atoms are see where all the
00:15:07 --> 00:15:09 oxygen atoms are. All of that stuff
00:15:09 --> 00:15:13 comes from this ability to see the sky
00:15:13 --> 00:15:16 in, as I said, 102 colors. Uh they're in
00:15:16 --> 00:15:19 the infrared, so it's sort of mimics the
00:15:19 --> 00:15:23 James Web telescope. Um it's however, as
00:15:23 --> 00:15:25 I said, a wide field telescope, which
00:15:25 --> 00:15:26 means it's doing surveys rather than
00:15:26 --> 00:15:29 homing in onto
00:15:29 --> 00:15:31 small areas of space where you want to
00:15:31 --> 00:15:33 magnify things so you can see all the
00:15:33 --> 00:15:35 fine detail. Uh it was launched um only
00:15:36 --> 00:15:38 a year ago, a year or so ago, March the
00:15:38 --> 00:15:40 11th, 2025.
00:15:40 --> 00:15:44 Um and it's already sending back some
00:15:44 --> 00:15:47 really quite spectacular uh results. So
00:15:47 --> 00:15:51 by the end of last year um it had uh
00:15:51 --> 00:15:53 completed
00:15:53 --> 00:15:57 uh the first of its all sky infrared
00:15:57 --> 00:16:00 maps of the sky of the universe
00:16:00 --> 00:16:00 basically.
00:16:00 --> 00:16:04 >> Mhm. Um and it's it's basically measured
00:16:04 --> 00:16:06 hundreds of millions of galaxies. Uh it
00:16:06 --> 00:16:09 does it essentially uh in three
00:16:09 --> 00:16:11 dimensions rather than two. Uh an
00:16:11 --> 00:16:13 imaging telescope you might think can
00:16:14 --> 00:16:16 only see uh everything as as if it was
00:16:16 --> 00:16:19 plastered on the celestial sphere. And
00:16:19 --> 00:16:22 that's an imaginary concept of uh you
00:16:22 --> 00:16:23 know where you say everything's at the
00:16:23 --> 00:16:25 same distance and it represents a
00:16:25 --> 00:16:26 sphere. and you can measure the
00:16:26 --> 00:16:28 positions of objects on that sphere very
00:16:28 --> 00:16:30 accurately in a science we call
00:16:30 --> 00:16:33 astrometry. But with all these 102
00:16:33 --> 00:16:36 filters um you can also use this
00:16:36 --> 00:16:39 instrument to get uh estimates of red
00:16:39 --> 00:16:43 shift and by that I mean the effectively
00:16:43 --> 00:16:45 the the way the spectrum of a a distant
00:16:45 --> 00:16:48 galaxy is shifted towards the red end of
00:16:48 --> 00:16:51 the spectrum. Uh and you can do that by
00:16:51 --> 00:16:54 choosing your filters carefully so that
00:16:54 --> 00:16:57 um as certain features in the spectrum
00:16:57 --> 00:17:00 of a galaxy drop in and out as the red
00:17:00 --> 00:17:02 shift increases, you could get an
00:17:02 --> 00:17:04 estimate of what the red shift is
00:17:04 --> 00:17:06 without actually making a spectrum. It's
00:17:06 --> 00:17:09 um a technique that's been known for
00:17:09 --> 00:17:12 many years uh essentially called spe um
00:17:12 --> 00:17:15 photo phototric red shifts. That's what
00:17:15 --> 00:17:18 we call it. uh and um so what they're
00:17:18 --> 00:17:20 doing is basically measuring the 3D
00:17:20 --> 00:17:22 positions of galaxies by the hundreds of
00:17:22 --> 00:17:25 millions. Uh and that will tell us a lot
00:17:25 --> 00:17:29 about um the the state of the state of
00:17:29 --> 00:17:32 the union in uh in galaxies at very
00:17:32 --> 00:17:34 great distances as well as the nearby
00:17:34 --> 00:17:36 ones. And it'll tell us about the
00:17:36 --> 00:17:40 evolution of uh things like uh the
00:17:40 --> 00:17:41 amount of water that there is in a
00:17:41 --> 00:17:43 galaxy, the amount of ice essentially.
00:17:44 --> 00:17:46 Um but they can also use this instrument
00:17:46 --> 00:17:48 not just to look at distant galaxies but
00:17:48 --> 00:17:51 to look at the gas clouds in our own
00:17:51 --> 00:17:54 galaxy. Uh and um that's where this
00:17:54 --> 00:17:56 story comes from. They've looked at what
00:17:56 --> 00:17:59 we call molecular clouds which you might
00:17:59 --> 00:18:01 not be surprised to hear are clouds of
00:18:01 --> 00:18:05 molecules. Uh and they are they're where
00:18:05 --> 00:18:08 we think stars are born giant molecular
00:18:08 --> 00:18:11 clouds. Um they've looked at some of the
00:18:11 --> 00:18:14 regions uh of the Milky Way which are
00:18:14 --> 00:18:18 richest in these clouds of gas uh and
00:18:18 --> 00:18:21 essentially used the fact that infrared
00:18:21 --> 00:18:24 can penetrate dust rather well at least
00:18:24 --> 00:18:26 near infrared can as we see when we look
00:18:26 --> 00:18:28 at some of the pictures from the James
00:18:28 --> 00:18:31 Web telescope. Uh that um dust
00:18:31 --> 00:18:33 penetrating ability allows you to see
00:18:33 --> 00:18:35 deep into some of these giant molecular
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38 clouds which are otherwise opaque to
00:18:38 --> 00:18:41 visible light and then you can look at
00:18:41 --> 00:18:43 what sort of chemicals are there and
00:18:43 --> 00:18:48 what sort of ices there are in um in in
00:18:48 --> 00:18:51 these clouds. Um and the ice we we know
00:18:51 --> 00:18:53 from other studies the ice tends to form
00:18:53 --> 00:18:57 on on dust grains. These are tiny dust
00:18:57 --> 00:18:59 grains. We we call them dust. It's
00:18:59 --> 00:19:02 really smoke uh in space because smoke
00:19:02 --> 00:19:04 here on Earth is solid particles very
00:19:04 --> 00:19:09 very tiny. Um that's how dust exists in
00:19:09 --> 00:19:11 space in these very tiny particles which
00:19:11 --> 00:19:15 are often coated with ices because the
00:19:15 --> 00:19:18 ice condenses on these cold cold dust
00:19:18 --> 00:19:20 particles. One of my former colleagues,
00:19:20 --> 00:19:22 somebody I actually studied with when I
00:19:22 --> 00:19:25 was at uni about 100 years ago, uh has
00:19:25 --> 00:19:27 spent his career in the United States,
00:19:27 --> 00:19:29 uh looking at this kind of thing,
00:19:29 --> 00:19:30 looking at interstellar dust and
00:19:30 --> 00:19:33 interstellar ISIS. I excuse me, I don't
00:19:33 --> 00:19:34 think he's actually involved with this
00:19:34 --> 00:19:37 research. Uh but he would have he would
00:19:37 --> 00:19:38 certainly understand and probably knows
00:19:38 --> 00:19:40 the people who are working on it uh
00:19:40 --> 00:19:42 would understand the results. So what
00:19:42 --> 00:19:46 they found is um a whole range of
00:19:46 --> 00:19:49 different uh molecules as well as water
00:19:49 --> 00:19:54 ice um there are uh some of the complex
00:19:54 --> 00:19:57 molecules like polycyclic aromatic
00:19:57 --> 00:19:59 hydrocarbons and these are things that
00:19:59 --> 00:20:01 are I mean they're carbon containing
00:20:01 --> 00:20:04 which is why they are called organic
00:20:04 --> 00:20:07 molecules u and finding those really
00:20:07 --> 00:20:09 gives you an insight into chemistry that
00:20:09 --> 00:20:12 goes on inside some of these giant
00:20:12 --> 00:20:14 molecular clouds and indeed we know from
00:20:14 --> 00:20:17 other studies that some of those ices
00:20:17 --> 00:20:19 represent the building blocks of life
00:20:19 --> 00:20:21 that we find all kinds of molecules that
00:20:21 --> 00:20:24 are important in life processes. So we
00:20:24 --> 00:20:25 haven't discovered life yet but we
00:20:25 --> 00:20:27 discovered the the building blocks uh
00:20:27 --> 00:20:29 and uh and the the point I was going to
00:20:29 --> 00:20:31 make the point of this story is there
00:20:31 --> 00:20:33 are huge quantities out there more than
00:20:33 --> 00:20:36 anybody expected.
00:20:36 --> 00:20:38 Yeah, we we have talked about the fact
00:20:38 --> 00:20:41 that water is plentiful in the universe.
00:20:41 --> 00:20:43 That's certainly something that's um
00:20:43 --> 00:20:46 becoming more and more evident, but this
00:20:46 --> 00:20:50 sheds a whole new light on it like um
00:20:50 --> 00:20:54 it's out there in a in abundance.
00:20:54 --> 00:20:57 >> Exactly. That's right. Um, I mean it, as
00:20:57 --> 00:21:00 you and I have said many times, the um
00:21:00 --> 00:21:02 most common two element molecule in the
00:21:02 --> 00:21:03 whole universe is water,
00:21:04 --> 00:21:06 >> H2O. And so it shouldn't surprise us
00:21:06 --> 00:21:09 that we've got ice everywhere. I mean,
00:21:09 --> 00:21:11 it's the same in our own solar system.
00:21:11 --> 00:21:13 We didn't know until comparatively
00:21:13 --> 00:21:15 recently that ice is abundant,
00:21:15 --> 00:21:17 particularly in the in the moons of the
00:21:17 --> 00:21:21 ice outer planets, uh, Saturn, um,
00:21:21 --> 00:21:23 Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune.
00:21:23 --> 00:21:25 They've all got moons that are very icy.
00:21:25 --> 00:21:27 And then you go out to the Kyper belt
00:21:27 --> 00:21:28 and the trans neptunian objects. They're
00:21:28 --> 00:21:30 all icy, too.
00:21:30 --> 00:21:33 >> Uh as are the comets that reside in the
00:21:33 --> 00:21:35 or cloud. So, it's everywhere. Water is
00:21:35 --> 00:21:37 absolutely everywhere. And the liquid
00:21:37 --> 00:21:41 oceans in the ice moons and the list
00:21:41 --> 00:21:44 goes on. And of course, the the way
00:21:44 --> 00:21:47 water is ended up in certain places. Uh
00:21:47 --> 00:21:50 one uh theory we talked about some time
00:21:50 --> 00:21:53 back is that when earth formed the water
00:21:53 --> 00:21:56 was already here because like this where
00:21:56 --> 00:21:58 water is attached to those dust
00:21:58 --> 00:22:02 particles or the dust molecules. Same
00:22:02 --> 00:22:03 with all the material that made earth
00:22:03 --> 00:22:06 and it's just eventually as conditions
00:22:06 --> 00:22:09 changed seeped into the places where
00:22:09 --> 00:22:12 it's now become oceans and clouds and
00:22:12 --> 00:22:15 rivers and created a whole ecosystem.
00:22:15 --> 00:22:18 Exactly. That's right. That's certainly.
00:22:18 --> 00:22:20 So, we think maybe the worth the earth's
00:22:20 --> 00:22:22 water has two sources. One of which
00:22:22 --> 00:22:24 you've mentioned. It's actually
00:22:24 --> 00:22:27 hydrolated rocks that um formed the
00:22:27 --> 00:22:28 earth.
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 >> But also the possibility that some of it
00:22:30 --> 00:22:32 came from comets and we've discussed the
00:22:32 --> 00:22:34 one of the problems with that theory and
00:22:34 --> 00:22:37 that um sometimes the comet's uh heavy
00:22:37 --> 00:22:38 water to normal water ratio doesn't
00:22:38 --> 00:22:41 match what the oceans of the earth have.
00:22:41 --> 00:22:44 Uh, and I I think there are some comets
00:22:44 --> 00:22:46 that do, but some don't. So, it's kind
00:22:46 --> 00:22:47 of open question.
00:22:47 --> 00:22:50 >> Doesn't match on Mars either compared to
00:22:50 --> 00:22:50 Earth.
00:22:50 --> 00:22:51 >> I believe not. That's right.
00:22:52 --> 00:22:53 >> Yeah, it's all fascinating. I love it.
00:22:54 --> 00:22:55 Really, you didn't think water was so
00:22:55 --> 00:22:57 interesting, but it's pretty pretty
00:22:57 --> 00:22:58 amazing stuff.
00:22:58 --> 00:23:01 >> Yeah. Great story this one. You can read
00:23:01 --> 00:23:03 it at f.org or you can read the paper
00:23:03 --> 00:23:06 that's been published recently at the
00:23:06 --> 00:23:07 Astrophysical
00:23:07 --> 00:23:11 Journal. Space Nuts. This is with Andrew
00:23:11 --> 00:23:16 Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.
00:23:16 --> 00:23:18 >> Okay, we checked all four systems and
00:23:18 --> 00:23:19 with
00:23:19 --> 00:23:20 >> Space Nuts,
00:23:20 --> 00:23:22 >> right, Fred, couple of stories to finish
00:23:22 --> 00:23:25 up. Um, couple of quick ones. Um, I I
00:23:25 --> 00:23:27 was reading an article the other day and
00:23:27 --> 00:23:29 it just sort of jumped out at me. A new
00:23:29 --> 00:23:32 uh paper has been published uh after a
00:23:32 --> 00:23:37 study into um the way the Mayans used to
00:23:37 --> 00:23:39 calculate time and used mathematics to
00:23:39 --> 00:23:43 to um predict um things that most
00:23:43 --> 00:23:45 civilizations would have thought were
00:23:45 --> 00:23:47 pretty random and damn scary like
00:23:47 --> 00:23:51 eclipses and uh seasons and and the list
00:23:51 --> 00:23:55 goes on. Um, but what the Mayans did was
00:23:55 --> 00:23:58 probably far superior to most other
00:23:58 --> 00:24:02 civilizations. Their mathematics was was
00:24:02 --> 00:24:04 beyond comprehension for most of us. I
00:24:04 --> 00:24:06 think um this is this is all brand new
00:24:06 --> 00:24:08 information. I know we know about how
00:24:08 --> 00:24:10 clever they were, but this kind of sheds
00:24:10 --> 00:24:12 a bit of new light onto it by the look
00:24:12 --> 00:24:14 of things.
00:24:14 --> 00:24:21 >> Um, that's correct. It's uh it's um the
00:24:21 --> 00:24:25 result of some research that uh goes
00:24:25 --> 00:24:28 back to a document called the Dresden
00:24:28 --> 00:24:32 Codeex uh which is a
00:24:32 --> 00:24:34 essentially a manuscript that dates from
00:24:34 --> 00:24:37 the Maya civilization which is was
00:24:37 --> 00:24:40 actually extremely longived. Um, I think
00:24:40 --> 00:24:43 it sort of kicked off uh something like
00:24:43 --> 00:24:49 uh 200 BC or BCE uh and lasted until the
00:24:49 --> 00:24:53 1600s uh uh AD or CE common era.
00:24:54 --> 00:24:58 >> Uh and um and so that's perhaps a hint
00:24:58 --> 00:25:01 as to why their mathematics and
00:25:01 --> 00:25:06 astronomy were so effective because they
00:25:06 --> 00:25:09 had a long long time
00:25:09 --> 00:25:12 uh to count the years between certain
00:25:12 --> 00:25:16 events and to um you know do that over
00:25:16 --> 00:25:20 over many many years so that you get a
00:25:20 --> 00:25:23 really accurate idea and the kind of
00:25:23 --> 00:25:25 thing I'm thinking of Andrew is the um
00:25:25 --> 00:25:28 what the lunar cycle uh the moon has a
00:25:28 --> 00:25:31 cycle of 18.6 in six years and on that
00:25:31 --> 00:25:34 scale eclipses more or less repeat
00:25:34 --> 00:25:37 throughout the throughout the year. Uh
00:25:37 --> 00:25:39 they don't exactly repeat so you don't
00:25:39 --> 00:25:41 get total eclipses occurring in exactly
00:25:41 --> 00:25:44 the same place but you uh you can use
00:25:44 --> 00:25:48 that that cycle in order to predict when
00:25:48 --> 00:25:50 there are likely to be eclipses. So if
00:25:50 --> 00:25:52 you've got a longestablished
00:25:52 --> 00:25:55 civilization with a long memory uh that
00:25:55 --> 00:25:58 18.6 six year cycle would be well known
00:25:58 --> 00:26:02 and well understood. Uh and I think the
00:26:02 --> 00:26:05 um what's um made the particular study
00:26:05 --> 00:26:06 that we're talking about it's published
00:26:06 --> 00:26:09 in the journal science advances is that
00:26:09 --> 00:26:11 some of the tables that are in the
00:26:11 --> 00:26:15 Dresden codeex uh have now been
00:26:15 --> 00:26:19 interpreted as as being the um method by
00:26:19 --> 00:26:22 which the Maya people actually did do
00:26:22 --> 00:26:23 things like eclipse predicting
00:26:24 --> 00:26:26 predicting eclipses.
00:26:26 --> 00:26:30 And it it's it differs from from uh uh
00:26:30 --> 00:26:32 what people thought happened. People
00:26:32 --> 00:26:33 thought these tables were just sort of
00:26:34 --> 00:26:36 one-off things that um that that didn't
00:26:36 --> 00:26:38 really talk to, you know, have anything
00:26:38 --> 00:26:40 to do with each other, the tabulated
00:26:40 --> 00:26:43 information. But it now looks as though
00:26:43 --> 00:26:45 uh it's much more clever than that. a
00:26:45 --> 00:26:47 kind of iterative approach with tables
00:26:47 --> 00:26:52 that overlap and um basically as time
00:26:52 --> 00:26:55 goes on you eliminate any kind of errors
00:26:55 --> 00:26:57 uh that might be there and so you end up
00:26:57 --> 00:27:00 with something very accurate indeed. Um
00:27:00 --> 00:27:02 yeah so it's a quite an interesting
00:27:02 --> 00:27:05 story uh for people who are interested
00:27:05 --> 00:27:07 in archa astronomy which we are of
00:27:07 --> 00:27:08 course on space
00:27:08 --> 00:27:10 >> yeah I I think it talks about the the
00:27:10 --> 00:27:13 minds having two two completely
00:27:13 --> 00:27:16 different systems but when they put them
00:27:16 --> 00:27:17 together and looked at them they went
00:27:18 --> 00:27:21 hey wait a minute they work together and
00:27:21 --> 00:27:25 they they are so incredibly accurate
00:27:25 --> 00:27:28 >> and um and it opened up a whole new
00:27:28 --> 00:27:31 realm of uh understanding about how the
00:27:31 --> 00:27:34 minds did what they did. Uh and I
00:27:34 --> 00:27:35 suppose when you think about it, they
00:27:35 --> 00:27:37 had 4 years, as you said, they had a
00:27:37 --> 00:27:40 long period of time to to collect this
00:27:40 --> 00:27:41 data.
00:27:41 --> 00:27:44 >> So, um yeah, pretty amazing stuff.
00:27:44 --> 00:27:46 >> And it it brings me back to that old
00:27:46 --> 00:27:49 chestnut that we we assume we are all
00:27:50 --> 00:27:51 knowledgeable. We are, you know, we are
00:27:51 --> 00:27:54 the cleverest humans that ever existed.
00:27:54 --> 00:27:56 We're not. We're no more intelligent
00:27:56 --> 00:27:59 than than the first humans. We've just
00:27:59 --> 00:28:02 progressed over time to reach the point
00:28:02 --> 00:28:04 we are. But the Mayans are exhibiting an
00:28:04 --> 00:28:09 intelligence that predates u the modern
00:28:09 --> 00:28:11 era if you like.
00:28:11 --> 00:28:13 >> And that they've shown that the
00:28:13 --> 00:28:16 intelligence of homo sapiens is long
00:28:16 --> 00:28:18 lived. It's not just something that's
00:28:18 --> 00:28:20 happened in the last few hundred years.
00:28:20 --> 00:28:23 It's it's it's been
00:28:23 --> 00:28:25 it's always been there is I I guess is
00:28:25 --> 00:28:27 what I'm saying.
00:28:27 --> 00:28:29 >> Yes, that's right. So it's that's homo
00:28:29 --> 00:28:32 sapiens. That's right. It's uh it's we
00:28:32 --> 00:28:35 are gifted with um a brain of 100
00:28:35 --> 00:28:37 billion neurons
00:28:37 --> 00:28:40 >> uh which um can still outdo computers
00:28:40 --> 00:28:42 and AI although of course AI is catching
00:28:42 --> 00:28:46 up. Uh but it's still not human. Um and
00:28:46 --> 00:28:49 uh I don't think it ever will be.
00:28:49 --> 00:28:52 >> I hope not. I hope not. Judy and I read
00:28:52 --> 00:28:55 an article the other day about um how
00:28:55 --> 00:28:59 they're going to use AI robots
00:28:59 --> 00:29:02 uh in in nursing homes in the not too
00:29:02 --> 00:29:06 distant future to help people with um
00:29:06 --> 00:29:09 simple things like uh communication,
00:29:09 --> 00:29:11 just having a conversation because they
00:29:11 --> 00:29:15 get lonely. Um and they're going to use
00:29:15 --> 00:29:17 AI robots to do things like that.
00:29:17 --> 00:29:21 they'll be able to have intelligent
00:29:21 --> 00:29:22 one-on-one
00:29:22 --> 00:29:25 conversations with a human being like
00:29:25 --> 00:29:28 this just that blows my mind. I know you
00:29:28 --> 00:29:30 can kind of do that at the moment with
00:29:30 --> 00:29:31 you know your Google Homes and all these
00:29:31 --> 00:29:35 but this is a whole new level this
00:29:35 --> 00:29:36 >> and it looks like they're going to roll
00:29:36 --> 00:29:38 that out in parts of Australia in the
00:29:38 --> 00:29:41 not too distant future. So yeah, it's a
00:29:41 --> 00:29:44 brave new world. Um
00:29:44 --> 00:29:45 just I hope they remember the three
00:29:45 --> 00:29:48 laws. We better not forget that. Yeah.
00:29:48 --> 00:29:49 >> Of robotics.
00:29:49 --> 00:29:51 >> Yes. The three laws of robotics.
00:29:51 --> 00:29:52 >> Yeah.
00:29:52 --> 00:29:54 >> Yeah. Uh but if you want to read about
00:29:54 --> 00:29:56 that story, it's at uh
00:29:56 --> 00:30:00 futura-sciences.com
00:30:00 --> 00:30:02 about the Mayan calendar and their
00:30:02 --> 00:30:05 mathematical brilliance. One quick one
00:30:05 --> 00:30:07 to finish off, Fred. We're going back to
00:30:07 --> 00:30:10 Artemus 2. Uh we we talked about not so
00:30:10 --> 00:30:12 long ago um not like the whole mission
00:30:12 --> 00:30:13 and everything they did, but the fact
00:30:13 --> 00:30:16 that they the astronauts on that
00:30:16 --> 00:30:20 particular mission were the humans that
00:30:20 --> 00:30:22 achieved the furthest distance from
00:30:22 --> 00:30:24 humanity in history because of how far
00:30:24 --> 00:30:27 out they had to go to loop back around
00:30:27 --> 00:30:29 the moon. But now they've made another
00:30:29 --> 00:30:32 quirky little um discovery about a
00:30:32 --> 00:30:34 record that was set that somebody just
00:30:34 --> 00:30:36 by chance decided to follow up and went,
00:30:36 --> 00:30:38 "Oh, hang on a minute. I've actually
00:30:38 --> 00:30:41 found something. What's this one about?
00:30:41 --> 00:30:43 >> Oh, well, it's it goes back to um one of
00:30:43 --> 00:30:46 the veteran commentators on space flight
00:30:46 --> 00:30:48 and satellites, somebody whose work over
00:30:48 --> 00:30:51 the decades has been invaluable in
00:30:51 --> 00:30:53 telling us what the you know how crowded
00:30:53 --> 00:30:55 space is and things like that. His name
00:30:55 --> 00:30:59 is Jonathan McDow. Uh he um is always I
00:30:59 --> 00:31:02 think his head is full of numbers that
00:31:02 --> 00:31:07 relate to spacecraft. Uh but he he noted
00:31:07 --> 00:31:09 that um
00:31:09 --> 00:31:13 the that the there is something
00:31:13 --> 00:31:16 different from what was being widely
00:31:16 --> 00:31:18 touted during the Arteimus mission. And
00:31:18 --> 00:31:22 that is that the distance between the
00:31:22 --> 00:31:25 humans on board Artemis and uh the
00:31:25 --> 00:31:27 humans on the International Space
00:31:27 --> 00:31:30 Station was a record for the separation
00:31:30 --> 00:31:35 of humans. And it was actually 419
00:31:35 --> 00:31:38 kilometers. That's the integrity to
00:31:38 --> 00:31:42 International Space Station distance. Uh
00:31:42 --> 00:31:44 260
00:31:44 --> 00:31:47 12 miles if you want that. But um
00:31:47 --> 00:31:50 Jonathan McDow took a closer look at
00:31:50 --> 00:31:53 what was in space at the time and
00:31:53 --> 00:31:59 realized that uh the um Chinese
00:31:59 --> 00:32:02 space station Tiangong
00:32:02 --> 00:32:04 uh was further away with its three
00:32:04 --> 00:32:07 tyonauts on board. In fact, it's um it's
00:32:07 --> 00:32:11 about 62 kilometers further away at
00:32:11 --> 00:32:14 419
00:32:14 --> 00:32:17 km. So that's the maximum separation of
00:32:17 --> 00:32:19 humans. Uh it was between Chinese
00:32:20 --> 00:32:23 tyonauts on Tiangong and H and the uh
00:32:23 --> 00:32:28 Artimus crew on board integrity. Uh it's
00:32:28 --> 00:32:32 it's very typical of Jonathan McDall to
00:32:32 --> 00:32:36 to pull little statistics like this out
00:32:36 --> 00:32:39 of the air. But um the he was
00:32:39 --> 00:32:42 interviewed by space.com uh and um they
00:32:42 --> 00:32:45 asked him lots of questions like is this
00:32:45 --> 00:32:48 significant this Arteimus 2 record and
00:32:48 --> 00:32:50 what he said was uh I think quite
00:32:50 --> 00:32:51 profound in its own way. I think the
00:32:51 --> 00:32:54 significance is that it's the beginning
00:32:54 --> 00:32:57 of a shift from how far from earth are
00:32:57 --> 00:32:59 our most distant people to how spread
00:33:00 --> 00:33:03 out is human civilization. Um and he
00:33:03 --> 00:33:04 said there may come a day when it's
00:33:04 --> 00:33:07 Mercury to the moons of Saturn. Yeah,
00:33:07 --> 00:33:08 which is true.
00:33:08 --> 00:33:10 >> Yeah, I I was going to actually suggest
00:33:10 --> 00:33:12 that uh you know when we go to Mars, the
00:33:12 --> 00:33:16 records will be set there. Um and and
00:33:16 --> 00:33:18 it'll just keep growing. Yeah. And I'd
00:33:18 --> 00:33:22 say in the next one or 200 years, we'll
00:33:22 --> 00:33:25 probably have people on Mercury at the
00:33:25 --> 00:33:27 same time as we have people on Pluto or
00:33:27 --> 00:33:29 something like that. You know, it's it's
00:33:29 --> 00:33:32 very possible. Uh so the numbers will
00:33:32 --> 00:33:33 just keep growing.
00:33:33 --> 00:33:34 >> Yes. Yeah.
00:33:34 --> 00:33:36 >> And you know, in time to come, they'll
00:33:36 --> 00:33:39 probably go beyond that, too. Who knows?
00:33:39 --> 00:33:42 >> One day, perhaps if we don't uh do
00:33:42 --> 00:33:45 ourselves a fatal injury before then.
00:33:45 --> 00:33:47 >> Yeah. Yeah. Like um bust a pufoo valve
00:33:48 --> 00:33:49 as we're
00:33:49 --> 00:33:49 >> Yes.
00:33:49 --> 00:33:51 >> running around the solar system. Yeah.
00:33:51 --> 00:33:54 Who knows? Um great story. If you'd like
00:33:54 --> 00:33:56 to read about the statistical separation
00:33:56 --> 00:33:59 of human beings, it's uh as Fred said,
00:33:59 --> 00:34:02 it's space.com.
00:34:02 --> 00:34:04 And we're all done. Fred, thank you very
00:34:04 --> 00:34:05 much.
00:34:05 --> 00:34:07 >> Great pleasure, Andrew. Always good to
00:34:07 --> 00:34:09 chat over these things and I look
00:34:09 --> 00:34:11 forward to talking about some questions
00:34:11 --> 00:34:12 with you at sometime down the track.
00:34:12 --> 00:34:14 >> I think we'll do that very, very soon.
00:34:14 --> 00:34:16 Probably sooner than most people think.
00:34:16 --> 00:34:18 Uh, thanks Fred. Professor Fred Watson,
00:34:18 --> 00:34:19 astronomer at large. Don't forget to
00:34:20 --> 00:34:22 visit us online while you're on the
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00:34:55 --> 00:34:59 spacenutspodcast.com.
00:34:59 --> 00:35:01 And thanks to Hugh in the studio. So,
00:35:01 --> 00:35:03 uh, funny story, he saw us log in, so he
00:35:03 --> 00:35:06 logged out. And from me, Andrew Dunley,
00:35:06 --> 00:35:07 thanks for your company. We'll see you
00:35:08 --> 00:35:09 on the next episode of Space Nuts.
00:35:09 --> 00:35:10 Bye-bye.
00:35:10 --> 00:35:11 >> Space nuts.
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