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Space Nuts Episode 485: Imaging the Unimaginable - Sagittarius A*, Dark Matter Theories, and Astronomy's Bright Future
Join Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson in this engaging episode of Space Nuts as they delve into the latest astronomical breakthroughs and thought-provoking listener questions. From capturing the elusive image of Sagittarius A*, the black hole at the centre of our galaxy, to exploring intriguing theories about dark matter and energy, this episode promises to expand your cosmic horizons.
Episode Highlights:
- First Image of Sagittarius A*: Discover the groundbreaking achievement of imaging the supermassive black hole at the heart of our Milky Way. Learn about the challenges faced by astronomers and the significance of this monumental discovery.
- Dark Matter and Energy Theories: Dive into a listener's speculative question about the nature of dark matter and energy. Explore the possibilities of anti-gravity and the mysteries that continue to baffle scientists.
- The Future of Astronomy : Hear from a listener in India contemplating a career in astronomy versus physics. Fred Watson Watson shares insights into the promising future of astronomy and the diverse opportunities available within the field.
- Space News with Anna: Get the latest updates on the private space sector, including Toyota's investment in Interstellar Technologies and NASA's revamped Mars Sample Return mission. Learn how these developments could shape the future of space exploration.
For more Space Nuts, including our continually updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website (https://www.spacenutspodcast.com/about)
Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
00:00 - Space Nuts is taking a bit of a break at the moment
00:21 - Professor Fred Watson joins us to talk astronomy and space science on Space Nuts
02:26 - Scientists have finally released an image of a black hole in our Milky Way galaxy
09:36 - Professor Fred Watson answers Space Nuts' question and answer segment
10:14 - Mike: Gravity in the lack of mass may explain Voyager slowing down
16:05 - Should I go for pure physics or astronomy after graduation? Kabir asks
21:24 - Andrew: Kabir, find something you love and turn it into a career
23:34 - Japanese startup Interstellar Technologies has secured major investment from Toyota
25:34 - NASA has unveiled a major overhaul of their Mars sample return mission
27:32 - Anna shares latest developments in space science with the SpaceNuts podcast
✍️ Episode References
Interstellar Technologies
[Interstellar Technologies](https://www.istellartech.com/)
Event Horizon Telescope
[Event Horizon Telescope](https://eventhorizontelescope.org/)
James Webb Space Telescope
[James Webb Space Telescope](https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/)
NASA Mars Sample Return Mission
[NASA Mars Sample Return Mission](https://mars.nasa.gov/msr/)
Astronomy Daily
[Astronomy Daily](https://astronomydaily.io/)
Woven By Toyota
[Woven By Toyota](https://woven.toyota/en/)
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts--2631155/support (https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts--2631155/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss) .
Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/24993201?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Space Nuts is taking a bit of a break at
00:00:02 --> 00:00:04 the moment uh Fred and I will be back uh
00:00:04 --> 00:00:06 in the not too distant future with fresh
00:00:06 --> 00:00:09 episodes in the meantime enjoy some of
00:00:09 --> 00:00:11 uh the key episodes that we have
00:00:11 --> 00:00:14 presented over the years major events in
00:00:14 --> 00:00:17 astronomy and space science and we'll
00:00:17 --> 00:00:19 see you real
00:00:19 --> 00:00:22 soon and I feel fine Space Nuts hello
00:00:22 --> 00:00:24 once again thanks for joining us on
00:00:24 --> 00:00:26 Space Nuts where we talk astronomy and
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28 space science we're also going to look
00:00:28 --> 00:00:31 at almost literally Sagittarius A
00:00:31 --> 00:00:33 they've finally got an image of the
00:00:33 --> 00:00:35 black hole at the center of our solar
00:00:35 --> 00:00:37 system oh well God we don't want it
00:00:37 --> 00:00:39 there the center of our
00:00:39 --> 00:00:41 galaxy uh we'll also be answering
00:00:41 --> 00:00:43 questions about Dark Matter uh the
00:00:43 --> 00:00:45 future of astronomy and that's all
00:00:45 --> 00:00:49 coming up on this edition of Space Nuts
00:00:49 --> 00:00:54 15 seconds guidance is internal 10 9
00:00:54 --> 00:00:59 ignition sequence start Space Nuts 5 4 3
00:00:59 --> 00:01:03 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1 Space Nuts as the
00:01:03 --> 00:01:07 report it feels good and joining me as
00:01:07 --> 00:01:09 he always does is Professor Fred Watson
00:01:09 --> 00:01:11 astronomer at large hello Fred how you
00:01:12 --> 00:01:15 doing Andrew good to see you you too uh
00:01:15 --> 00:01:17 we were kind of in the same vicinity on
00:01:17 --> 00:01:19 the weekend did you get to kuna baraban
00:01:19 --> 00:01:21 no I didn't oh well we weren't in the
00:01:21 --> 00:01:24 same vicinity then no what
00:01:24 --> 00:01:26 happed yeah what happened was the uh the
00:01:27 --> 00:01:29 event that I was coming to Kun Baran for
00:01:29 --> 00:01:32 um was can because of an outbreak of Co
00:01:32 --> 00:01:33 so I of
00:01:33 --> 00:01:36 course always the way well I was only 40
00:01:36 --> 00:01:38 km down the road at a little village
00:01:38 --> 00:01:41 called turuina uh friends of ours were
00:01:41 --> 00:01:43 staying in the Caravan park there so we
00:01:43 --> 00:01:45 went up to see them and spent the
00:01:45 --> 00:01:47 weekend there what a lovely sleepy
00:01:47 --> 00:01:49 little town it is we went they had a bit
00:01:49 --> 00:01:51 of a fundraiser on at the pub that night
00:01:51 --> 00:01:54 so we went along there and uh we we
00:01:54 --> 00:01:56 thrashed our wives at a a few games of
00:01:56 --> 00:02:00 uh of pool and uh I I got the most
00:02:00 --> 00:02:03 amazing image of the Moon through um
00:02:03 --> 00:02:05 through the clouds as it rose on
00:02:05 --> 00:02:08 Saturday night and it just um it looks
00:02:08 --> 00:02:09 like a painting I don't know how it
00:02:09 --> 00:02:11 worked out that way uh I took that with
00:02:11 --> 00:02:14 my iPhone it looks extraordinary I've
00:02:14 --> 00:02:17 put it on the Space Nuts Facebook page
00:02:17 --> 00:02:19 if anyone wants to have a look at it um
00:02:19 --> 00:02:20 yeah just one of those photos that
00:02:20 --> 00:02:23 turned out well without any planning
00:02:23 --> 00:02:26 whatsoever now Fred uh let's talk about
00:02:26 --> 00:02:28 one of the most exciting pieces of news
00:02:28 --> 00:02:32 in astronomy to date uh and I know
00:02:32 --> 00:02:34 that's a big call but uh we we did not
00:02:34 --> 00:02:38 so long ago talk about the image of a
00:02:38 --> 00:02:40 black hole that was uh was created and
00:02:40 --> 00:02:42 we talked about the fact that they were
00:02:42 --> 00:02:45 trying to get an image of Sagittarius A
00:02:45 --> 00:02:47 the black hole at the center of our
00:02:47 --> 00:02:50 Milky Way galaxy and they have finally
00:02:50 --> 00:02:53 done it yeah it's uh you know it's a lot
00:02:53 --> 00:02:55 it's been a long story this because the
00:02:55 --> 00:02:57 observations for this Andrew were made
00:02:58 --> 00:03:00 back in April 20
00:03:01 --> 00:03:04 2017 uh and um you're right we did talk
00:03:04 --> 00:03:06 about it because the first um image that
00:03:06 --> 00:03:10 was released which was in 2019 believe
00:03:10 --> 00:03:13 it or not that's wow three years ago I
00:03:13 --> 00:03:15 think it was October I can't remember
00:03:15 --> 00:03:19 anyway um that first image was of the um
00:03:19 --> 00:03:21 basically the shadow of the Event
00:03:21 --> 00:03:26 Horizon in the m87 Galaxy which is 55
00:03:26 --> 00:03:28 million years 55 million light years
00:03:28 --> 00:03:33 away um and it it surprised astronomers
00:03:33 --> 00:03:35 actually when that press because there
00:03:35 --> 00:03:37 was a lot of media hype and I think I
00:03:37 --> 00:03:39 sat in on the press release just as I
00:03:39 --> 00:03:41 did last week for the um for the for the
00:03:41 --> 00:03:44 Sagittarius A star black hole but the
00:03:44 --> 00:03:48 m87 black hole um surprised everybody
00:03:48 --> 00:03:50 because it's much further away we all
00:03:50 --> 00:03:52 thought oh it be much easier to image
00:03:52 --> 00:03:55 the nearest super massive black hole uh
00:03:55 --> 00:03:57 the one at the middle of our galaxy it's
00:03:57 --> 00:04:00 a pretty hefty thing 4.1 million solar
00:04:00 --> 00:04:03 masses but it turns out that with 6.5
00:04:03 --> 00:04:06 billion solar masses the m87 black hole
00:04:06 --> 00:04:09 was actually easier to image so all the
00:04:09 --> 00:04:10 number crunching that was that took
00:04:10 --> 00:04:13 place between 2017 and
00:04:13 --> 00:04:16 2019 uh actually delivered an image that
00:04:16 --> 00:04:18 looked exactly like a cream donut but
00:04:18 --> 00:04:21 that's all right we can put up with that
00:04:21 --> 00:04:23 uh and what you're seeing there is the
00:04:23 --> 00:04:25 uh you know the material swirling around
00:04:25 --> 00:04:28 the Black Hole uh and releasing radio
00:04:28 --> 00:04:32 waves uh but um essentially um um
00:04:32 --> 00:04:34 avoiding the what what you might call
00:04:34 --> 00:04:36 the shadow of the Event Horizon because
00:04:36 --> 00:04:39 the what it is is this is radiation
00:04:39 --> 00:04:42 that's um that's Bent by the uh the
00:04:42 --> 00:04:44 Supreme gravity of the black hole but
00:04:44 --> 00:04:46 doesn't quite make it back into the
00:04:47 --> 00:04:49 black hole so it shines out like this
00:04:49 --> 00:04:52 Beam with a hollow center and that's
00:04:52 --> 00:04:56 what we saw back in 2017 sorry 2019 uh
00:04:56 --> 00:04:59 and and I guess everybody's been waiting
00:04:59 --> 00:05:02 uh for for the release of data from the
00:05:02 --> 00:05:05 center of our galaxy because we knew
00:05:05 --> 00:05:07 that our galactic center black hole
00:05:07 --> 00:05:10 Sagittarius A star was on their
00:05:10 --> 00:05:12 observing list so we knew that they've
00:05:12 --> 00:05:15 made observations of it but the the um
00:05:15 --> 00:05:17 collaboration has kept things pretty
00:05:17 --> 00:05:20 close to their chests uh and uh it was
00:05:20 --> 00:05:22 so there was a um an announcement it's
00:05:23 --> 00:05:24 about a month ago saying there's going
00:05:24 --> 00:05:26 to be a big press release from The Event
00:05:26 --> 00:05:28 Horizon telescope about something in the
00:05:28 --> 00:05:30 Milky Way galaxy well that only be one
00:05:30 --> 00:05:32 thing so it was in some ways the world's
00:05:32 --> 00:05:35 worst kept secret um just to to run
00:05:35 --> 00:05:38 through the statistics um yes it's
00:05:38 --> 00:05:41 27 light years away or thereabouts
00:05:41 --> 00:05:44 uh at the center of our own Galaxy it is
00:05:44 --> 00:05:48 uh also swirling material around it the
00:05:48 --> 00:05:50 black hole at 4.1 million times the
00:05:50 --> 00:05:53 solar mass but in a much more Gentle Way
00:05:53 --> 00:05:55 than what's happening with m87 because
00:05:55 --> 00:05:57 m87 is what's called an active Galaxy
00:05:57 --> 00:05:59 where the black hole is gobbling up a
00:05:59 --> 00:06:00 lot of stuff
00:06:00 --> 00:06:03 ours is much more modest in its appetite
00:06:03 --> 00:06:06 uh and so what it doesn't have yet or at
00:06:06 --> 00:06:08 least haven't been observed yet is these
00:06:08 --> 00:06:10 Jets of material that are swept out of
00:06:10 --> 00:06:13 the black holes poles um because of the
00:06:13 --> 00:06:15 magnetic forces that are involved with
00:06:15 --> 00:06:16 that so we haven't seen that uh but
00:06:17 --> 00:06:18 there's a suspicion that they might be
00:06:18 --> 00:06:21 there um there is also a suspicion that
00:06:21 --> 00:06:24 this black hole uh it's poles are
00:06:24 --> 00:06:26 pointing towards us which might make it
00:06:26 --> 00:06:28 harder to detect the Jets that was one
00:06:28 --> 00:06:30 of the solutions that comes out of the
00:06:30 --> 00:06:32 uh the number crunching that's been done
00:06:32 --> 00:06:34 for the black C so very exciting news uh
00:06:34 --> 00:06:36 good to see it uh yes it still looks
00:06:36 --> 00:06:39 like a an orange cream donut but that's
00:06:39 --> 00:06:42 fine that's what they look like well I
00:06:42 --> 00:06:45 hear they're already working on getting
00:06:45 --> 00:06:46 another image they're they're pretty
00:06:46 --> 00:06:49 Keen to keep working on this so it's not
00:06:49 --> 00:06:52 like um that's the end of the story uh
00:06:52 --> 00:06:55 we we may well learn more uh you it's a
00:06:55 --> 00:06:57 pretty great achievement though getting
00:06:57 --> 00:06:59 an image of something that is very
00:06:59 --> 00:07:02 difficult to say because of the um the
00:07:02 --> 00:07:04 dirtiness of our galaxy yes that's right
00:07:05 --> 00:07:06 the the the dust you know the dust
00:07:06 --> 00:07:08 between ourselves in the galactic center
00:07:08 --> 00:07:10 certainly switches off any visible light
00:07:11 --> 00:07:12 observations you can penetrate in
00:07:12 --> 00:07:14 infrared and that's how we knew the
00:07:14 --> 00:07:16 black hole was there because there are
00:07:16 --> 00:07:18 stars that were detected in the infrared
00:07:18 --> 00:07:20 Wave band which are clearly orbiting
00:07:20 --> 00:07:23 around something very massive uh that's
00:07:23 --> 00:07:25 what proved the black hole It produced
00:07:25 --> 00:07:27 two Nobel prizes a couple of years ago
00:07:27 --> 00:07:29 um what comes next though is really
00:07:29 --> 00:07:32 interesting Andrew because um the so
00:07:32 --> 00:07:33 just to explain the Event Horizon
00:07:34 --> 00:07:35 telescope is actually a Consortium of
00:07:35 --> 00:07:37 eight observatories or it was when these
00:07:37 --> 00:07:40 observations were made all on the the
00:07:40 --> 00:07:42 side one side of the earth so Australia
00:07:42 --> 00:07:44 is not part of it because our telescopes
00:07:44 --> 00:07:46 are on the wrong side of the planet uh
00:07:46 --> 00:07:49 but they're all linked together um in a
00:07:49 --> 00:07:51 really interesting way because they you
00:07:51 --> 00:07:53 know you need very precise observation
00:07:53 --> 00:07:56 timings and things of that sort but that
00:07:56 --> 00:07:57 consortium's now been joined by other
00:07:57 --> 00:07:59 radio observatories which increases its
00:07:59 --> 00:08:03 power um and what is next on the agenda
00:08:03 --> 00:08:05 is to make movies of what's going on in
00:08:05 --> 00:08:07 our galactic center so we might see
00:08:07 --> 00:08:10 these Blobs of energetic material
00:08:10 --> 00:08:13 swirling around the Event Horizon uh
00:08:13 --> 00:08:15 which they do actually um very rapidly
00:08:15 --> 00:08:17 at the black hole in the middle of our
00:08:17 --> 00:08:19 galaxy it's a matter of minutes that it
00:08:19 --> 00:08:21 takes them to go around once whereas in
00:08:21 --> 00:08:23 m87 it's a matter of I think it's days
00:08:23 --> 00:08:25 actually rather minutes because it's
00:08:25 --> 00:08:27 such a massive black hole so there is
00:08:27 --> 00:08:30 more to come yeah it's it's a
00:08:30 --> 00:08:32 we may even see more stuff this
00:08:32 --> 00:08:36 year will the James web Space Telescope
00:08:36 --> 00:08:38 be able to um because it's infrared will
00:08:38 --> 00:08:41 it be able to do any Imaging of the
00:08:41 --> 00:08:44 Sagittarius A star yes I I I'm I mean I
00:08:44 --> 00:08:46 mean what it will image is the uh
00:08:46 --> 00:08:48 objects around it there may be there are
00:08:48 --> 00:08:50 occasionally infrared bursts of
00:08:50 --> 00:08:52 radiation from the galactic center that
00:08:52 --> 00:08:54 the James web might well be able to pick
00:08:54 --> 00:08:58 up so um I think generally uh so these
00:08:58 --> 00:09:01 wave um observations were made at a
00:09:01 --> 00:09:03 wavelength of
00:09:03 --> 00:09:07 1.3 um millimeters that's well into the
00:09:07 --> 00:09:10 millimeter radio wave band now James web
00:09:10 --> 00:09:12 is infrared which is much much shorter
00:09:12 --> 00:09:15 than that but um I think at the long
00:09:15 --> 00:09:17 wavelength end it will see things coming
00:09:17 --> 00:09:20 from the galactic center so yes we might
00:09:20 --> 00:09:21 well see new
00:09:21 --> 00:09:24 results fascinating all right incredible
00:09:24 --> 00:09:29 news and it's um something uh we will be
00:09:29 --> 00:09:30 uh keeping an eye on because I'm I'm
00:09:30 --> 00:09:32 sure there'll be more to learn from
00:09:32 --> 00:09:36 Sagittarius A star this is Space Nuts
00:09:36 --> 00:09:38 Andrew dunkley here with Professor Fred
00:09:38 --> 00:09:41 Watson astronomer at
00:09:41 --> 00:09:43 large let's take a little break from the
00:09:43 --> 00:09:47 show to tell you about our sponsor incog
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00:12:20 --> 00:12:23 incog SPAC nuts to find out more about
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00:12:27 --> 00:12:31 online now back to the show
00:12:31 --> 00:12:33 Space Nuts time for our question and
00:12:34 --> 00:12:36 answer segment where you ask us
00:12:36 --> 00:12:40 questions and we say I don't
00:12:40 --> 00:12:42 know that's how it goes isn't it friend
00:12:42 --> 00:12:44 more or less yeah there's a little bit
00:12:44 --> 00:12:47 more to that um it's usually I don't we
00:12:47 --> 00:12:49 we actually do a lot of talking before
00:12:49 --> 00:12:51 we say I don't and then we follow it
00:12:51 --> 00:12:52 with but I'll make it up
00:12:52 --> 00:12:57 anyway yes yes all right let's go to our
00:12:57 --> 00:13:00 first question from Mike hi my name's
00:13:00 --> 00:13:03 Mike I live on Vancouver Island in
00:13:03 --> 00:13:06 Canada um love the
00:13:06 --> 00:13:11 show a question about I guess it be
00:13:11 --> 00:13:16 black matter and dark energy I guess um
00:13:16 --> 00:13:21 there's a well of gravity where there's
00:13:21 --> 00:13:27 something with mass what if there was an
00:13:27 --> 00:13:30 uplifting gravity in the lack of mass
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33 would that maybe make sense
00:13:33 --> 00:13:37 for those problems like the Voyager
00:13:37 --> 00:13:40 slowing down outside of the solar system
00:13:40 --> 00:13:43 and and
00:13:43 --> 00:13:46 uh Universe the the galaxies spinning
00:13:46 --> 00:13:48 faster than they should
00:13:48 --> 00:13:49 be
00:13:49 --> 00:13:55 um and maybe even the the the voids in
00:13:55 --> 00:13:58 between the galaxies making the
00:13:58 --> 00:14:02 filaments uh of a an upheaval of gravity
00:14:02 --> 00:14:04 pushing things away and maybe that's why
00:14:04 --> 00:14:07 we can't see dark matter and dark energy
00:14:07 --> 00:14:10 because we can only
00:14:10 --> 00:14:14 see Gravity by its
00:14:14 --> 00:14:18 it's masses interacting with it anyhow
00:14:18 --> 00:14:20 it was just a
00:14:20 --> 00:14:22 thoughts love your
00:14:22 --> 00:14:25 show thank you very much thank you very
00:14:25 --> 00:14:28 much Mike um yes all right um some
00:14:28 --> 00:14:31 interesting theories and and I think we
00:14:31 --> 00:14:33 talked about this before we started but
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35 it's good that people are thinking about
00:14:35 --> 00:14:38 this kind of stuff that's how we learn
00:14:38 --> 00:14:40 that's how we sort of start
00:14:40 --> 00:14:41 investigating and finding out what's
00:14:41 --> 00:14:45 what um so yes so it's a is a great
00:14:45 --> 00:14:48 question um and I guess we should
00:14:48 --> 00:14:50 clarify that what we're talking about is
00:14:50 --> 00:14:52 not dark energy which permeates the
00:14:52 --> 00:14:56 whole universe and is the force that's
00:14:56 --> 00:14:57 whatever it is that's driving the
00:14:57 --> 00:14:59 accelerated expansion of the universe
00:14:59 --> 00:15:01 what we're talking about is the effect
00:15:01 --> 00:15:03 of dark matter because Mike specifically
00:15:03 --> 00:15:05 mentioned gravitational Wells the you
00:15:05 --> 00:15:07 know the idea the idea that SpaceTime
00:15:07 --> 00:15:09 has these these wells in it which are
00:15:10 --> 00:15:12 caused by matter and that's what we feel
00:15:12 --> 00:15:14 is gravity and it's a really good
00:15:14 --> 00:15:15 picture to have in your mind when you
00:15:15 --> 00:15:19 think about these things so um I suppose
00:15:19 --> 00:15:23 what he's imagining is is sort of other
00:15:23 --> 00:15:26 Wells that point upwards in space time
00:15:26 --> 00:15:29 so you know you've got negative gravity
00:15:29 --> 00:15:32 um but um nothing that we've ever seen
00:15:32 --> 00:15:33 or
00:15:33 --> 00:15:37 investigated uh has led us to that idea
00:15:37 --> 00:15:41 of of a negative gravity um so dark
00:15:41 --> 00:15:43 negative matter I suppose you'd call it
00:15:44 --> 00:15:48 rather than dark matter uh and I think
00:15:48 --> 00:15:52 um given what we do know about dark
00:15:52 --> 00:15:54 matter because we can detect it exactly
00:15:54 --> 00:15:57 as as Mike said the fact that galaxies
00:15:57 --> 00:15:59 are rotating too quickly
00:15:59 --> 00:16:01 uh for the gravity of what you can see
00:16:01 --> 00:16:04 in them to hold them together um so
00:16:04 --> 00:16:05 there must be something else that has
00:16:05 --> 00:16:09 been well mapped um by you know
00:16:09 --> 00:16:11 observations made of distant galaxies
00:16:11 --> 00:16:13 and nearby ones including gravitational
00:16:13 --> 00:16:17 lenses which really allow you to to map
00:16:17 --> 00:16:20 the distribution of Dark Matter well uh
00:16:20 --> 00:16:23 and when you do that uh you would if
00:16:23 --> 00:16:25 there was something going the other way
00:16:25 --> 00:16:27 if there was some sort of anti-gravity
00:16:27 --> 00:16:30 taking place you'd see it you would see
00:16:30 --> 00:16:33 its effects um but that has not been has
00:16:33 --> 00:16:36 not been discovered so I think we're
00:16:36 --> 00:16:37 still left with the problem of dark
00:16:37 --> 00:16:41 matter being some some sort of hidden um
00:16:41 --> 00:16:44 material uh which only interacts with
00:16:44 --> 00:16:46 normal matter through its gravity uh
00:16:46 --> 00:16:49 maybe interacts with subatom other
00:16:49 --> 00:16:52 subatomic particles in a very on very
00:16:52 --> 00:16:54 rare occasions and people are looking
00:16:54 --> 00:16:56 for those possible interactions you
00:16:56 --> 00:16:58 might get gamma rays coming from
00:16:58 --> 00:17:00 collisions between dark matter and and
00:17:00 --> 00:17:03 normal matter but that's still a work in
00:17:03 --> 00:17:05 progress and a and a final postcript to
00:17:05 --> 00:17:09 to Mike's um Mike's question I think
00:17:09 --> 00:17:10 when he mentioned Voyager he may have
00:17:10 --> 00:17:13 been referring to Pioneer I think it was
00:17:13 --> 00:17:16 Pioneer 10 which for many years seemed
00:17:16 --> 00:17:20 to be leaving its expected uh trajectory
00:17:20 --> 00:17:22 uh which threw into question our model
00:17:22 --> 00:17:25 of gravity but that was resolved it's
00:17:25 --> 00:17:28 probably two or three years ago now by
00:17:28 --> 00:17:30 more careful thermal modeling of the
00:17:30 --> 00:17:32 spacecraft and it turned out that there
00:17:32 --> 00:17:36 was um I think a a panel on the
00:17:36 --> 00:17:38 spacecraft that was hotter than had been
00:17:38 --> 00:17:40 previously expected and the thermal
00:17:40 --> 00:17:43 radiation was actually providing a
00:17:43 --> 00:17:45 Thrust to the spacecraft which over time
00:17:46 --> 00:17:47 was pushing it off its
00:17:47 --> 00:17:50 trajectory isn't that amazing just
00:17:50 --> 00:17:53 something as simple as that can throw
00:17:53 --> 00:17:55 things off course you know when you when
00:17:55 --> 00:17:57 you've got something that's uh so far
00:17:57 --> 00:17:59 away and been been going for for so long
00:17:59 --> 00:18:02 that's right yeah maybe that's the
00:18:02 --> 00:18:05 answer to diverting um asteroids and
00:18:05 --> 00:18:07 comets we we oh something on to heat
00:18:07 --> 00:18:09 them up on one side it is it's one of
00:18:09 --> 00:18:10 the one of the things that's been
00:18:10 --> 00:18:13 thought of exactly that yeah oh damn I
00:18:13 --> 00:18:14 thought I figured that I think they I
00:18:14 --> 00:18:17 think what you do is um you paint one
00:18:17 --> 00:18:19 side of it white so the other side you
00:18:19 --> 00:18:22 know releases more Heat and the white
00:18:22 --> 00:18:24 side
00:18:24 --> 00:18:27 doesn't yeah are you kidding or is that
00:18:27 --> 00:18:29 r no I've seen it mentioned yeah you
00:18:29 --> 00:18:32 know okay don't know how you deal with
00:18:32 --> 00:18:34 rotating asteroid but never mind hell of
00:18:34 --> 00:18:36 a lot of pain yes it
00:18:36 --> 00:18:40 is yeah although U it gives graffiti
00:18:40 --> 00:18:42 artists a job absolutely yes that's a
00:18:42 --> 00:18:44 place for them
00:18:44 --> 00:18:47 yeah all right Mike thank you let's move
00:18:47 --> 00:18:49 on to a question from Kabir who's in
00:18:49 --> 00:18:52 India hi I'm Kabir you're listener from
00:18:52 --> 00:18:55 India I'm here for an advice I completed
00:18:55 --> 00:18:58 my bachelor's degree in physics so now
00:18:58 --> 00:19:00 I'm looking for for my
00:19:00 --> 00:19:03 postgraduation so I'm little bit
00:19:03 --> 00:19:06 confused uh should I go for Pure physics
00:19:06 --> 00:19:09 or astronomy I'm actually interested in
00:19:09 --> 00:19:12 astronomy so I would like to know the
00:19:12 --> 00:19:15 future of astronomy doing postgraduation
00:19:15 --> 00:19:19 only in astronomy my parents are
00:19:19 --> 00:19:22 pressuring me to go for p physics but I
00:19:22 --> 00:19:23 would like to
00:19:23 --> 00:19:27 do specialization in astronomy yeah you
00:19:27 --> 00:19:31 understand so I would like to know the
00:19:31 --> 00:19:33 future of astronomy that's my
00:19:33 --> 00:19:36 question okay uh thank you Kabir and
00:19:36 --> 00:19:37 thanks for putting us under the pump
00:19:37 --> 00:19:39 because your parents want you to do one
00:19:39 --> 00:19:42 thing and you're thinking of doing
00:19:42 --> 00:19:44 another see we're under some pressure
00:19:45 --> 00:19:48 now Fred um yeah that's so he's done a
00:19:48 --> 00:19:51 bachelor's degree in physics and now
00:19:51 --> 00:19:53 he's got to decide whether or not to do
00:19:53 --> 00:19:54 is
00:19:54 --> 00:19:57 postor studies postgraduate studies in
00:19:57 --> 00:19:59 physics or as om his heart says
00:20:00 --> 00:20:02 astronomy his parents say
00:20:02 --> 00:20:04 physics um and it's a great question and
00:20:04 --> 00:20:06 first of all many congratulations what
00:20:07 --> 00:20:09 and yeah what is what is the future of
00:20:09 --> 00:20:12 um of astronomy of astronomy yeah and
00:20:12 --> 00:20:14 yes definitely congratulations well done
00:20:14 --> 00:20:16 that's that's some pretty heavy duty
00:20:16 --> 00:20:18 thinking it's a big achievement to to
00:20:18 --> 00:20:22 get a degree in physics yes um as I
00:20:23 --> 00:20:24 remember from scraping through mine a
00:20:24 --> 00:20:28 long time ago um it it's but it's a good
00:20:28 --> 00:20:31 question to ask as well and um it's
00:20:31 --> 00:20:34 actually a question I face myself
00:20:34 --> 00:20:38 because um I did change
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 from when I went to un in undergraduate
00:20:40 --> 00:20:44 I changed from astronomy to physics
00:20:44 --> 00:20:48 because I got um sort of caught up with
00:20:48 --> 00:20:51 the idea that astronomy was all
00:20:51 --> 00:20:53 about keeping me happy because I was
00:20:53 --> 00:20:55 interested in astronomy whereas physics
00:20:56 --> 00:20:58 might be a root to be a more productive
00:20:58 --> 00:21:00 member of the community you know I might
00:21:00 --> 00:21:03 discover things in physics that would be
00:21:03 --> 00:21:06 useful to the The World At Large and
00:21:06 --> 00:21:09 actually find it easier to get a job uh
00:21:09 --> 00:21:11 so I did so my degrees is actually in
00:21:11 --> 00:21:12 fact it's a combined degree in
00:21:12 --> 00:21:14 mathematics and physics but that that's
00:21:14 --> 00:21:16 what happened I did go to unit to study
00:21:16 --> 00:21:20 astronomy um and on reflection you know
00:21:20 --> 00:21:23 um I got back to astronomy anyway
00:21:23 --> 00:21:27 because uh that's where my heart lay uh
00:21:27 --> 00:21:30 and um I you know spent my whole life as
00:21:30 --> 00:21:32 a working astronomer with a strong
00:21:32 --> 00:21:35 actually strong bias to physics um and
00:21:35 --> 00:21:38 and Engineering too because I I did
00:21:38 --> 00:21:40 quite a bit of uh of Engineering in my
00:21:40 --> 00:21:42 early career worked for a firm that
00:21:42 --> 00:21:45 built large telescopes um so so I did
00:21:45 --> 00:21:47 develop skills which are marketable I
00:21:48 --> 00:21:51 mean I think that's the the bottom line
00:21:51 --> 00:21:54 uh and uh you might think intuitively
00:21:54 --> 00:21:56 and maybe your parents imagine this that
00:21:56 --> 00:21:59 a Physics degree uh gives you would get
00:21:59 --> 00:22:02 a phys for example a physics PhD would
00:22:02 --> 00:22:04 give you more job opportunities than an
00:22:04 --> 00:22:08 astrophysics PhD um but that is not
00:22:08 --> 00:22:12 necessarily true because uh there are
00:22:12 --> 00:22:15 certainly you know opportunities in
00:22:15 --> 00:22:18 astrophysics and astronomy uh which will
00:22:18 --> 00:22:20 continue so the future of astronomy is
00:22:21 --> 00:22:24 bright uh it's always a tough gig to get
00:22:24 --> 00:22:28 into because uh there are typically more
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 people who want to do it than there are
00:22:30 --> 00:22:34 certainly permanent jobs um I I um you
00:22:34 --> 00:22:40 know I still think though that uh if you
00:22:40 --> 00:22:42 do do a for example a doctorate or a
00:22:42 --> 00:22:45 master's in astronomy or astrophysics
00:22:45 --> 00:22:48 you are not locking yourself out of a
00:22:48 --> 00:22:53 future career in another area you if
00:22:53 --> 00:22:54 you're still on track if you want to
00:22:54 --> 00:22:57 become an astronomer you can you know
00:22:57 --> 00:22:59 and and you you meet the required
00:22:59 --> 00:23:01 standards then you will be it will
00:23:01 --> 00:23:05 happen uh but um even if that doesn't
00:23:05 --> 00:23:07 work out for you uh there are other
00:23:07 --> 00:23:09 opportunities because astrophysics is
00:23:09 --> 00:23:12 basically physics you you know it's just
00:23:12 --> 00:23:16 physics on a big scale um and the
00:23:16 --> 00:23:18 computational techniques that are used
00:23:18 --> 00:23:22 in astronomy uh are very marketable in
00:23:22 --> 00:23:24 the financial world you will be amazed
00:23:24 --> 00:23:26 how many people who do a PhD in
00:23:26 --> 00:23:28 astrophysics or astronomy and decid that
00:23:28 --> 00:23:30 they want to change they don't want to
00:23:30 --> 00:23:32 be academics for the rest of their lives
00:23:32 --> 00:23:34 they go into either industry or finance
00:23:35 --> 00:23:37 and they do very well so uh it's not
00:23:37 --> 00:23:40 necessarily A make or break decision uh
00:23:40 --> 00:23:42 and my advice is always follow your
00:23:42 --> 00:23:46 heart I I told my own kids that um most
00:23:46 --> 00:23:48 of them ignored it but I did tell them
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50 that you know I would support them if
00:23:50 --> 00:23:52 they one of my daughters wanted to do
00:23:52 --> 00:23:55 archaeology and I said yep I'll go for
00:23:55 --> 00:23:56 it that's fantastic because she was
00:23:56 --> 00:23:59 really interesting interesting in it in
00:23:59 --> 00:24:00 the end she chickened out and did
00:24:00 --> 00:24:03 software engineering but now now she's
00:24:03 --> 00:24:06 very wealthy but that's fine um so maybe
00:24:07 --> 00:24:09 that was right to ignore my advice one
00:24:09 --> 00:24:11 other comment if I may um Andrew before
00:24:11 --> 00:24:13 I let you get a word in edgeways on this
00:24:13 --> 00:24:17 sorry that's all right um is um I have a
00:24:17 --> 00:24:19 look at the um website of the
00:24:19 --> 00:24:22 Astronomical Society of India uh because
00:24:22 --> 00:24:23 that's the Society of professional
00:24:23 --> 00:24:26 astronomers and other professionals from
00:24:27 --> 00:24:29 related disciplines it it's now 50 years
00:24:29 --> 00:24:31 old founded in
00:24:31 --> 00:24:33 1972 uh a very well-known Indian
00:24:33 --> 00:24:36 astronomer Vu bapu uh as the founding
00:24:36 --> 00:24:39 president uh and uh I don't know what
00:24:39 --> 00:24:42 their membership is now um it was a
00:24:42 --> 00:24:44 thousand a few years ago it's U probably
00:24:44 --> 00:24:47 well in advance of that uh there there
00:24:47 --> 00:24:50 is um they're a very active Society uh
00:24:50 --> 00:24:52 there are radio observatories and
00:24:52 --> 00:24:55 Optical observatories in India uh
00:24:55 --> 00:24:58 there's a lot to look at so yeah have a
00:24:58 --> 00:25:01 have a look at their website uh and um
00:25:01 --> 00:25:03 yeah check it out
00:25:03 --> 00:25:06 K yeah and and good luck to you and um
00:25:06 --> 00:25:08 after all that if uh your parents want
00:25:08 --> 00:25:12 to uh get in touch with um Fred and tell
00:25:12 --> 00:25:14 him what they really think I'll give you
00:25:14 --> 00:25:15 his
00:25:15 --> 00:25:18 address that's right but no um look I
00:25:18 --> 00:25:21 was always told um find something you
00:25:21 --> 00:25:24 love and turn it into a career and you
00:25:24 --> 00:25:26 know I'd always loved radio and I still
00:25:26 --> 00:25:29 do and I I did it for for I've been
00:25:29 --> 00:25:32 doing it I still do it for what is it
00:25:32 --> 00:25:37 now coming up on 40 years and you know I
00:25:37 --> 00:25:38 I had some good jobs and I had some bad
00:25:38 --> 00:25:42 jobs but uh overall I did what I loved
00:25:42 --> 00:25:44 and that that's um and I got paid for it
00:25:44 --> 00:25:47 so that's really what you should strive
00:25:47 --> 00:25:49 for I suppose and your heart seems to be
00:25:49 --> 00:25:52 going towards astronomy and look I think
00:25:52 --> 00:25:54 the future of astronomy is unlimited
00:25:54 --> 00:25:56 especially when we get into space
00:25:56 --> 00:25:57 exploration they will need astronomers
00:25:57 --> 00:25:59 out there uh they will need I'll need
00:25:59 --> 00:26:01 them on the moon soon you might need you
00:26:02 --> 00:26:04 might need to consider that um there's
00:26:04 --> 00:26:05 just so many
00:26:05 --> 00:26:09 possibilities quite uh but yeah and um
00:26:09 --> 00:26:12 look our our regards to your parents
00:26:12 --> 00:26:16 Kabir and thanks thanks for the
00:26:17 --> 00:26:19 question here also Space Nuts hello
00:26:19 --> 00:26:21 space Nutters I'm Anna the host of the
00:26:21 --> 00:26:24 astronomy daily podcast and I'm here to
00:26:24 --> 00:26:26 share a couple of the stories we've been
00:26:26 --> 00:26:28 following this week as special bit extra
00:26:28 --> 00:26:31 for this holiday edition of Space Nuts
00:26:31 --> 00:26:32 in some exciting news from the private
00:26:32 --> 00:26:34 space sector Japanese startup
00:26:34 --> 00:26:36 Interstellar Technologies has just
00:26:36 --> 00:26:38 secured a major investment that could
00:26:38 --> 00:26:40 reshape their future in the space
00:26:40 --> 00:26:43 industry woven by Toyota the automobile
00:26:43 --> 00:26:45 Giants Mobility technology arm has
00:26:45 --> 00:26:49 invested 7 billion yen that's about $44
00:26:49 --> 00:26:52 million into the space company this
00:26:52 --> 00:26:54 isn't just about money though it's a
00:26:54 --> 00:26:56 strategic partnership that could
00:26:56 --> 00:26:58 revolutionize how rockets and and
00:26:58 --> 00:27:00 satellites are
00:27:00 --> 00:27:02 manufactured Interstellar Technologies
00:27:02 --> 00:27:04 which was originally known for
00:27:04 --> 00:27:06 developing the zero rocket is looking to
00:27:06 --> 00:27:08 establish a vertically integrated
00:27:08 --> 00:27:10 satellite launch manufacturing and
00:27:10 --> 00:27:12 Communications business similar to what
00:27:12 --> 00:27:15 SpaceX has done with starlink Toyota's
00:27:15 --> 00:27:18 involvement actually dates back to 2020
00:27:18 --> 00:27:20 when their personnel began working with
00:27:20 --> 00:27:22 Interstellar to reduce manufacturing
00:27:22 --> 00:27:24 costs and streamline production
00:27:24 --> 00:27:26 processes now with this formal
00:27:26 --> 00:27:29 partnership inter seller will be able to
00:27:29 --> 00:27:30 tap into Toyota's extensive
00:27:30 --> 00:27:33 manufacturing expertise to improve their
00:27:33 --> 00:27:35 production methods and strengthen their
00:27:35 --> 00:27:37 supply chain what makes this partnership
00:27:38 --> 00:27:40 particularly interesting is Toyota's
00:27:40 --> 00:27:42 broader vision for the future of
00:27:42 --> 00:27:44 Mobility at the recent Consumer
00:27:44 --> 00:27:47 Electronics Show in Las Vegas Toyota's
00:27:47 --> 00:27:49 chairman Akio Toyota made it clear that
00:27:49 --> 00:27:51 they see space as the next Frontier for
00:27:51 --> 00:27:53 Mobility stating that the future of
00:27:53 --> 00:27:55 Mobility shouldn't be limited to just
00:27:55 --> 00:27:57 Earth or just one car company for that
00:27:57 --> 00:27:59 matter
00:27:59 --> 00:28:00 this investment is part of
00:28:00 --> 00:28:03 interstellar's Series F funding round
00:28:03 --> 00:28:05 with additional funding expected from
00:28:05 --> 00:28:08 Toyota by June the partnership also goes
00:28:08 --> 00:28:11 beyond just Financial investment a woven
00:28:11 --> 00:28:13 by Toyota representative will be joining
00:28:13 --> 00:28:14 interstellar's board of directors
00:28:15 --> 00:28:16 suggesting a deep level of strategic
00:28:16 --> 00:28:18 collaboration between the two
00:28:18 --> 00:28:22 companies big news from NASA about their
00:28:22 --> 00:28:24 ambitious Mar sample return Mission the
00:28:24 --> 00:28:27 space agency has just unveiled a major
00:28:27 --> 00:28:29 overhaul of their strategy to bring
00:28:29 --> 00:28:31 those precious Martian samples back to
00:28:31 --> 00:28:33 Earth they're now considering two
00:28:33 --> 00:28:35 streamlined approaches that could
00:28:35 --> 00:28:37 significantly reduce both cost and
00:28:37 --> 00:28:40 complexity the original plan came with a
00:28:40 --> 00:28:43 whopping price tag of up to 11 billion
00:28:43 --> 00:28:44 and wouldn't have seen samples return
00:28:44 --> 00:28:47 until 2040 but now NASA administrator
00:28:47 --> 00:28:49 Bill Nelson Has announced theyve found
00:28:49 --> 00:28:51 ways to potentially cut those costs
00:28:51 --> 00:28:54 nearly in half with new estimates
00:28:54 --> 00:28:59 ranging between 5.8 and 7.7 billion
00:28:59 --> 00:29:00 while potentially getting the samples
00:29:00 --> 00:29:02 back by
00:29:02 --> 00:29:04 2035 both new options focus on
00:29:04 --> 00:29:06 delivering the same essential Hardware
00:29:06 --> 00:29:08 to Mars a Lander carrying the Mars
00:29:08 --> 00:29:12 Ascent vehicle or MAV this rocket will
00:29:12 --> 00:29:14 be responsible for launching the samples
00:29:14 --> 00:29:16 currently being collected by the
00:29:16 --> 00:29:18 perseverance Rover into Mars
00:29:18 --> 00:29:20 orbit the key difference between the two
00:29:20 --> 00:29:23 approaches lies in how they'll land this
00:29:23 --> 00:29:25 Hardware on the red planet the first
00:29:25 --> 00:29:27 option would use a scaled up version of
00:29:27 --> 00:29:30 the tribe and tested sky crane system
00:29:30 --> 00:29:32 that successfully landed both curiosity
00:29:32 --> 00:29:35 and perseverance Rovers the second
00:29:35 --> 00:29:36 approach would involve partnering With
00:29:36 --> 00:29:38 Private Industry for an alternative
00:29:38 --> 00:29:41 Landing system in a notable change from
00:29:41 --> 00:29:43 earlier designs both options will now
00:29:43 --> 00:29:45 use nuclear power instead of solar
00:29:45 --> 00:29:47 panels This switch gives the mission
00:29:47 --> 00:29:49 more operational flexibility allowing it
00:29:49 --> 00:29:51 to work during dust storms and keep the
00:29:51 --> 00:29:53 Rocket Motors at their optimal
00:29:53 --> 00:29:56 temperature NASA isn't rushing to decide
00:29:56 --> 00:29:58 between these options they're taking
00:29:58 --> 00:30:01 until mid 2026 to make their final
00:30:01 --> 00:30:03 choice and while China has announced
00:30:03 --> 00:30:05 their own Mars sample return Mission
00:30:05 --> 00:30:06 targeting
00:30:06 --> 00:30:09 2028 NASA emphasizes that their mission
00:30:09 --> 00:30:11 offers a more comprehensive scientific
00:30:12 --> 00:30:14 approach collecting samples from various
00:30:14 --> 00:30:17 sites that once hosted liquid water and
00:30:17 --> 00:30:18 that's it from me for this episode of
00:30:18 --> 00:30:21 Space Nuts I'm Anna and I've thoroughly
00:30:21 --> 00:30:23 enjoyed sharing these incredible
00:30:23 --> 00:30:25 developments with you today it's an
00:30:25 --> 00:30:27 exciting time for space science don't
00:30:27 --> 00:30:30 don't forget to visit astronomy daily.
00:30:30 --> 00:30:31 for your daily fix of space and
00:30:31 --> 00:30:34 astronomy news updates we're constantly
00:30:34 --> 00:30:35 updating the site with the latest
00:30:35 --> 00:30:37 discoveries Mission updates and Cosmic
00:30:37 --> 00:30:40 wonders until our next adventure through
00:30:40 --> 00:30:42 the cosmos keep looking up and stay
00:30:42 --> 00:30:43 curious about the Mysteries that
00:30:43 --> 00:30:46 surround us in space Space Nuts you'll
00:30:46 --> 00:30:49 be listening to the Space Nuts
00:30:49 --> 00:30:52 podcast available at Apple podcasts
00:30:52 --> 00:30:55 Spotify ihart radio or your favorite
00:30:55 --> 00:30:58 podcast player you can also stream on on
00:30:58 --> 00:31:00 demand at bites.com this has been
00:31:00 --> 00:31:03 another qualty podcast production from
00:31:03 --> 00:31:06 bites.com