Space Nuts #476 Q&A: Gravitational Waves, Space Stations, and Ultra Massive Black Holes
Join Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson in this engaging Q&A edition of Space Nuts as they tackle intriguing questions from listeners worldwide. From the curious nature of gravitational waves to the feasibility of a dual orbiting space station, and the mystery of ultra massive black holes, this episode is full of cosmic conundrums and insightful discussions.
Episode Highlights:
- Gravitational Waves Conundrum : Explore whether gravitational waves can reflect or refract like light or sound waves. Understand the unique nature of these quadrupole waves and how they interact with the fabric of Space.
- Orbiting Space Stations : Delve into the concept of a space station orbiting both Earth and the Moon in a figure 8 pattern. Discuss the challenges of such an endeavour and its potential impact on lunar missions.
- China's Satellite Constellations: Examine the implications of China's new satellite constellation and the efforts to reduce their visibility, similar to SpaceX's Starlink.
- Ultra Massive Black Holes: Investigate the possibility of ultra massive black holes residing in cosmic voids and their potential role in the universe's large-scale structure.
- Spacesuit Compatibility Issues: Understand the challenges faced by astronauts due to incompatible spacesuits between Boeing's Starliner and SpaceX's Dragon capsule.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
00:00 - This edition of Space Nuts will focus on gravitational waves
01:28 - Colin asks is there any evidence that gravitational waves reflect or refract
06:25 - Is it possible to have a space station orbiting both Earth and the moon
09:39 - With China adding a new, currently visible satellite constellation, are discussions being had
13:39 - Professor Fred Watson answers audience questions in Q and A edition
19:55 - Your final question reflects on an issue we spoke about recently
21:09 - Mark asks about spacesuit compatibility between Boeing Starliner and SpaceX Dragon
26:51 - If you have questions for us, please send them through via our website
✍️ Episode References
SpaceX
https://www.spacex.com/
Starlink
https://www.starlink.com/
Apollo 8
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_8
Artemis Programme
https://www.nasa.gov/specials/artemis/
International Space Station (ISS)
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/main/index.html
USA Today
https://www.usatoday.com/
Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space (COPUOS)
https://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/copuos/index.html
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts--2631155/support (https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts--2631155/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss) .
Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/24515420?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 hi there thanks for joining us on a Q&A
00:00:02 --> 00:00:04 edition of Space Nuts Andrew Dunley here
00:00:04 --> 00:00:06 hope you're well hope you can stick
00:00:06 --> 00:00:07 around a while because we've got
00:00:07 --> 00:00:10 questions from all over the world and
00:00:10 --> 00:00:12 they will be focusing on gravitational
00:00:12 --> 00:00:15 waves uh an interesting question about
00:00:15 --> 00:00:17 how they behave or do they behave in
00:00:17 --> 00:00:19 certain ways uh we're going to talk
00:00:20 --> 00:00:21 orbiting space stations and super
00:00:22 --> 00:00:24 constellations which is certainly an
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 issue uh around the planet at the moment
00:00:27 --> 00:00:31 uh an observation I suppose with a a
00:00:31 --> 00:00:33 question as the kicker about dark energy
00:00:33 --> 00:00:36 and Ultram Mass black holes and
00:00:36 --> 00:00:38 non-compatible space suits has been
00:00:38 --> 00:00:41 brought up again we'll talk about all of
00:00:41 --> 00:00:44 that on this edition of Space Nuts 15
00:00:44 --> 00:00:49 seconds guidance is internal 10 9
00:00:49 --> 00:00:53 ignition sequence start Space Nuts 5 4 3
00:00:53 --> 00:00:58 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1 Space Nuts asut
00:00:58 --> 00:01:00 reported feels good
00:01:00 --> 00:01:02 he's back I don't know why he keeps
00:01:02 --> 00:01:04 coming back but he's back again it's
00:01:04 --> 00:01:07 Professor Fred what's in hello Fred I'm
00:01:07 --> 00:01:09 I'm only back CU I can't actually get
00:01:09 --> 00:01:10 out of this room I'm just locked in here
00:01:10 --> 00:01:12 all the time so
00:01:12 --> 00:01:15 yeah I mean for real I say you you never
00:01:15 --> 00:01:19 left no it's the t
00:01:19 --> 00:01:22 t uh H shall shall we get straight into
00:01:22 --> 00:01:24 it and answer some questions I I think
00:01:24 --> 00:01:27 we should yes or at least pretend to
00:01:27 --> 00:01:30 okay um this first question question
00:01:30 --> 00:01:31 comes from Colin I'm not sure where
00:01:31 --> 00:01:35 Colin is um but he asks is there any
00:01:35 --> 00:01:36 evidence that gravitational waves
00:01:36 --> 00:01:40 reflect and or refract like pressure or
00:01:40 --> 00:01:43 light waves I know we've talked about
00:01:43 --> 00:01:46 gravitational waves a lot um but I don't
00:01:46 --> 00:01:48 know if we've really analyzed this
00:01:48 --> 00:01:49 particular aspect of their behavior if
00:01:50 --> 00:01:51 it exists at
00:01:51 --> 00:01:54 all uh we haven't and it's a good
00:01:54 --> 00:01:57 question uh because we you know we we
00:01:57 --> 00:02:00 know that um uh like waves which are
00:02:00 --> 00:02:04 transverse waves uh so like things are
00:02:04 --> 00:02:06 vibrating kind of horizontally or ver
00:02:06 --> 00:02:10 vertically uh they are refracted and
00:02:10 --> 00:02:13 reflected and sound waves are too which
00:02:13 --> 00:02:15 are pressure waves they're longitudinal
00:02:15 --> 00:02:19 waves changes in pressure uh now
00:02:19 --> 00:02:21 gravitational waves are neither of those
00:02:21 --> 00:02:24 things they are quadriple waves which
00:02:24 --> 00:02:27 means that space is sort of distorting
00:02:27 --> 00:02:29 uh in a peculiar way when they travel
00:02:29 --> 00:02:31 through
00:02:31 --> 00:02:34 uh but here's the here's the crunch
00:02:34 --> 00:02:37 Andrew uh and there's Jordi agreeing
00:02:37 --> 00:02:39 with me uh which probably means that on
00:02:39 --> 00:02:41 his back so he'll go a berserk in a
00:02:41 --> 00:02:44 minute but that's all right here's the
00:02:44 --> 00:02:47 crunch um how do so think about
00:02:48 --> 00:02:51 refraction this is the bending of light
00:02:51 --> 00:02:54 uh when light passes into for example a
00:02:54 --> 00:02:58 piece of glass why does light refract in
00:02:58 --> 00:03:00 a piece of glass
00:03:00 --> 00:03:03 uh why does its angle change and it's
00:03:03 --> 00:03:05 because the speed of light in a piece of
00:03:05 --> 00:03:10 glass is lower than it is in free air or
00:03:10 --> 00:03:13 a vacuum and so the light waves are
00:03:13 --> 00:03:16 slowed down when they pass into the
00:03:16 --> 00:03:18 glass and that produces the bending
00:03:18 --> 00:03:20 phenomena
00:03:20 --> 00:03:25 refraction uh now gravitational waves
00:03:25 --> 00:03:28 are not like that they always travel at
00:03:28 --> 00:03:30 the speed of light
00:03:30 --> 00:03:33 so they're not refracted in the same way
00:03:33 --> 00:03:35 that we would imagine light being
00:03:35 --> 00:03:37 refracted that phenomenon doesn't exist
00:03:37 --> 00:03:43 for gravitational waves what does exist
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45 though is
00:03:45 --> 00:03:50 um we know that SpaceTime is distorted
00:03:50 --> 00:03:53 by matter that's comes from Einstein's
00:03:53 --> 00:03:54 general theory of
00:03:54 --> 00:03:57 relativity and uh SpaceTime is distorted
00:03:57 --> 00:04:01 but light wants to follow the Distortion
00:04:01 --> 00:04:03 in other words the the light doesn't
00:04:03 --> 00:04:05 know that it's that it's going through
00:04:05 --> 00:04:08 distorted SpaceTime uh and so it just
00:04:08 --> 00:04:10 follows the Distortion and that's why we
00:04:10 --> 00:04:12 see gravitational lenses because uh the
00:04:12 --> 00:04:16 SpaceTime around a cluster of galaxis is
00:04:16 --> 00:04:18 distorted the light just goes on its
00:04:18 --> 00:04:22 merry way at the same speed uh and and
00:04:22 --> 00:04:24 it's not refraction it's gravitational
00:04:24 --> 00:04:27 lensing it's bending by gravity and
00:04:27 --> 00:04:29 gravitational waves behave in the same
00:04:29 --> 00:04:31 way so they do Bend but it's not through
00:04:31 --> 00:04:33 refraction it's through gravitational
00:04:33 --> 00:04:35 Distortion of
00:04:35 --> 00:04:39 space work that one
00:04:39 --> 00:04:42 out so that means gravitational waves
00:04:42 --> 00:04:45 just keep going they go They're going
00:04:45 --> 00:04:48 what they think is a straight line but
00:04:48 --> 00:04:49 the straight line is isn't straight
00:04:49 --> 00:04:51 because it's because the space is
00:04:51 --> 00:04:52 distorted
00:04:52 --> 00:04:55 by it's they're called geodesics it's
00:04:55 --> 00:04:58 it's basically how so that's the way we
00:04:58 --> 00:05:01 believe orbits work in in relativity uh
00:05:01 --> 00:05:04 you know if you've got a planet that's
00:05:04 --> 00:05:06 um that's got something in orbit around
00:05:06 --> 00:05:09 it the planet produces a well of gravity
00:05:10 --> 00:05:11 uh you can think of it as a trampoline
00:05:11 --> 00:05:15 distorted and an object basically thinks
00:05:15 --> 00:05:16 it's going in a straight line through
00:05:16 --> 00:05:18 that distorted space but actually it's
00:05:18 --> 00:05:22 going round in a circle in an orbit uh
00:05:22 --> 00:05:23 that's sort of and the same thing kind
00:05:23 --> 00:05:25 of happens to both light waves and
00:05:25 --> 00:05:27 gravitational waves they're they they
00:05:27 --> 00:05:29 think they're going along a straight
00:05:29 --> 00:05:30 line but not because the straight Line's
00:05:31 --> 00:05:33 Bent by a gravitational pool I'm not
00:05:33 --> 00:05:36 explaining this very well I can see that
00:05:36 --> 00:05:38 I can see by the expression on your face
00:05:38 --> 00:05:39 that he's thinking he lost it all
00:05:39 --> 00:05:40 together I have no idea what he's
00:05:41 --> 00:05:43 talking about what kind of bent my mind
00:05:43 --> 00:05:45 out of shape is I expected you to say
00:05:45 --> 00:05:47 the opposite I expect you to say no
00:05:47 --> 00:05:49 gravitational waves they they are power
00:05:49 --> 00:05:51 under themselves and they will do what
00:05:51 --> 00:05:53 they like and nothing will stop them
00:05:53 --> 00:05:54 from hitting a straight line but that's
00:05:54 --> 00:05:56 not true although they
00:05:56 --> 00:05:59 think yeah well it is they they behave
00:05:59 --> 00:06:01 as though they're following a straight
00:06:01 --> 00:06:03 line but that straight line is distorted
00:06:03 --> 00:06:05 by the gravitational pull of something
00:06:05 --> 00:06:07 else you know like a cluster of galaxies
00:06:07 --> 00:06:10 yeah so they are affected they are
00:06:10 --> 00:06:13 affected yes uh but it's not quite the
00:06:13 --> 00:06:15 same as reflection or refraction as as
00:06:15 --> 00:06:17 colins
00:06:17 --> 00:06:19 proposed interesting very interesting
00:06:19 --> 00:06:21 it's a great question Colin and thank
00:06:21 --> 00:06:23 you for that yeah absolute Ripper all
00:06:23 --> 00:06:26 right um thanks Colin our next question
00:06:26 --> 00:06:29 uh comes from Michael Whiting in chroma
00:06:29 --> 00:06:32 in the UK hi Andrew and Fred uh
00:06:32 --> 00:06:34 long-term listener and would like to say
00:06:34 --> 00:06:37 thank you for a brilliant podcast which
00:06:37 --> 00:06:40 I look forward to every week um thank
00:06:40 --> 00:06:42 you uh thinking about the future going
00:06:42 --> 00:06:45 back to the Moon Etc is it possible to
00:06:45 --> 00:06:47 have a space station orbiting both Earth
00:06:48 --> 00:06:50 and the Moon in say technical terms a
00:06:51 --> 00:06:53 figure eight I'm assuming it is possible
00:06:53 --> 00:06:55 but radiation shielding is more the
00:06:55 --> 00:06:58 issue this would surely make it easier
00:06:58 --> 00:07:01 to transit for Moon missions that's his
00:07:01 --> 00:07:03 first question um when we deal with that
00:07:03 --> 00:07:06 one I'll I'll ask the second question
00:07:06 --> 00:07:08 all right so like this idea if it's
00:07:08 --> 00:07:11 feasible well it is uh absolutely and
00:07:11 --> 00:07:14 that's actually uh if you go look back
00:07:14 --> 00:07:18 to 1968 and uh look at the trajectory of
00:07:18 --> 00:07:20 Apollo 8 that's exactly what it did it
00:07:20 --> 00:07:23 followed a figure8 orbit around the
00:07:23 --> 00:07:28 Earth and the moon um and uh that you
00:07:28 --> 00:07:32 could set up a stable orbit like that uh
00:07:32 --> 00:07:35 but it doesn't really make for an easier
00:07:35 --> 00:07:39 transit for Moon missions because uh if
00:07:39 --> 00:07:40 you've got something that's in a figure
00:07:40 --> 00:07:42 eight of figure of eight orbits going
00:07:42 --> 00:07:44 from Earth to going between the Earth
00:07:44 --> 00:07:45 and the
00:07:45 --> 00:07:49 moon uh when you you know suppose you
00:07:49 --> 00:07:51 imagine that's a kind of space station
00:07:51 --> 00:07:55 you want to jump on board it um to to
00:07:55 --> 00:07:56 jump on board you've got to have a
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58 spacecraft that is following exactly
00:07:58 --> 00:08:01 that orbit so yeah you're G to launch it
00:08:01 --> 00:08:03 and get it into that orbit in order for
00:08:03 --> 00:08:06 you to make the randevu between the two
00:08:06 --> 00:08:10 uh now yes maybe uh if you have a
00:08:10 --> 00:08:12 something like the Gateway that the
00:08:12 --> 00:08:14 Gateway uh satellite which is being
00:08:14 --> 00:08:18 proposed as part of the arimis program
00:08:18 --> 00:08:21 uh in orbit around the Moon um then
00:08:22 --> 00:08:24 that's like a space station which has
00:08:24 --> 00:08:26 lots and lots of facilities on board
00:08:26 --> 00:08:29 which a little Transit shuttle might not
00:08:29 --> 00:08:30 have Transit Shuffle might look more
00:08:30 --> 00:08:34 like a a crew Dragon spacecraft or a you
00:08:34 --> 00:08:38 know um what were they called uh I can
00:08:38 --> 00:08:42 never remember its name the boing one oh
00:08:42 --> 00:08:45 yeah yeah yeah Starline Starline that's
00:08:45 --> 00:08:46 what that was the name I thought of and
00:08:46 --> 00:08:48 I was thinking no it's not a Starliner
00:08:48 --> 00:08:50 that's an aircraft no but it is it is
00:08:50 --> 00:08:53 it's a Starliner yeah the Starliner U so
00:08:53 --> 00:08:54 you know they're they're very modest
00:08:54 --> 00:08:56 pieces of equipment they can hold up to
00:08:56 --> 00:08:58 seven people but it will be a crowded uh
00:08:58 --> 00:09:02 Crowded House house so um I guess you
00:09:02 --> 00:09:04 could do that if you've got this sort of
00:09:04 --> 00:09:06 Gateway like space station that is
00:09:06 --> 00:09:09 constantly in a figure of eight orbit uh
00:09:09 --> 00:09:12 and you zoom your your passengers up to
00:09:12 --> 00:09:15 it uh hop on and it acts like a a boss
00:09:15 --> 00:09:16 then you've got to hop off at the other
00:09:16 --> 00:09:19 end before it brings you back to Earth
00:09:19 --> 00:09:21 uh I'm not sure that it would make life
00:09:21 --> 00:09:23 easier I think it might make life a bit
00:09:23 --> 00:09:25 more
00:09:25 --> 00:09:28 complicated but it could be done yes it
00:09:28 --> 00:09:30 could be done
00:09:30 --> 00:09:33 yeah all right so um your thinking is
00:09:33 --> 00:09:36 Right Michael but um operationally might
00:09:36 --> 00:09:39 might prove too much of a headache yeah
00:09:39 --> 00:09:41 um Michael's got another question with
00:09:41 --> 00:09:44 China adding a new currently visible
00:09:44 --> 00:09:47 satellite Constellation Are discussions
00:09:47 --> 00:09:51 being had to decrease the V visibility
00:09:51 --> 00:09:53 of the satellites as was achieved with
00:09:53 --> 00:09:56 space x uh Starling
00:09:56 --> 00:09:58 constellations um follow a question to
00:09:58 --> 00:10:03 that uh does China listen thanks Mark uh
00:10:03 --> 00:10:05 and this this question goes right to the
00:10:05 --> 00:10:09 heart of stuff I talk about a lot uh and
00:10:09 --> 00:10:13 you know part of my um role as as the
00:10:13 --> 00:10:16 astronomer on the loose um uh the answer
00:10:16 --> 00:10:20 is yes Keanan I think is the name of the
00:10:20 --> 00:10:22 satellite I might have that wrong
00:10:22 --> 00:10:23 because it's a few days since I looked
00:10:23 --> 00:10:26 at it it means thousand
00:10:26 --> 00:10:29 sales uh that's the name of it uh and
00:10:29 --> 00:10:34 there 15 satellites I think are um
00:10:34 --> 00:10:36 have been filed for in this
00:10:36 --> 00:10:38 constellation uh all the evidence I
00:10:38 --> 00:10:40 think last time I looked there were
00:10:40 --> 00:10:44 about 40 in orbit now with mounting
00:10:44 --> 00:10:46 evidence that they are pretty bright um
00:10:46 --> 00:10:51 then then as you exactly as uh um as
00:10:51 --> 00:10:55 Michael says uh SpaceX did a lot of work
00:10:55 --> 00:10:59 to reduce the visible light uh profile
00:10:59 --> 00:11:03 of their stlink satellites um we don't
00:11:03 --> 00:11:07 think that's happened with Kenan and we
00:11:07 --> 00:11:11 don't really have any Avenues into the
00:11:12 --> 00:11:16 company that is running them in China um
00:11:16 --> 00:11:22 now my hope is that this will change um
00:11:22 --> 00:11:24 because we now have satellite
00:11:24 --> 00:11:27 constellation interference to dark and
00:11:27 --> 00:11:30 quiet Skies that is now an agenda item
00:11:30 --> 00:11:31 on the committee on the peaceful uses of
00:11:31 --> 00:11:33 outer space the UN committee on the
00:11:33 --> 00:11:35 peaceful uses of outer space they have a
00:11:35 --> 00:11:37 science and Technical subcommittee and
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39 it's now an agenda item on that
00:11:39 --> 00:11:43 committee so um that raises its profile
00:11:43 --> 00:11:47 uh China is a player in this forum they
00:11:47 --> 00:11:50 come to the party with the copas uh that
00:11:50 --> 00:11:53 committee uh so my hope is that there
00:11:53 --> 00:11:56 will be avenues for uh improvement with
00:11:56 --> 00:11:59 that but at the moment we don't
00:12:00 --> 00:12:03 oh yeah that's a Pity uh I mean they
00:12:03 --> 00:12:06 have a vested interest in space
00:12:06 --> 00:12:09 exploration and uh understanding as much
00:12:09 --> 00:12:14 as anybody else so I suspect that it
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16 would be in their best interest and they
00:12:16 --> 00:12:19 would benefit from yeah y insulating
00:12:19 --> 00:12:22 their satellites so to speak to to you
00:12:22 --> 00:12:25 know reduce the the impact on
00:12:25 --> 00:12:28 observational and radio astronomy from
00:12:28 --> 00:12:29 the ground that's right and in fact
00:12:29 --> 00:12:30 that's exactly the comment I was in a
00:12:31 --> 00:12:33 meeting a few months ago now and I made
00:12:33 --> 00:12:35 exactly that comment that China has a
00:12:35 --> 00:12:38 very large cohort of astronomers uh uh
00:12:38 --> 00:12:41 who are themselves using well amongst
00:12:41 --> 00:12:43 the biggest single dish radio telescope
00:12:43 --> 00:12:45 in the world the fast telescope 500
00:12:45 --> 00:12:48 meter radio dish uh and they also have
00:12:49 --> 00:12:52 optical telescopes um so uh they would
00:12:53 --> 00:12:56 have a voice within China and um
00:12:56 --> 00:12:58 hopefully the space industry in China
00:12:58 --> 00:13:01 will listen to them uh so so my you know
00:13:01 --> 00:13:03 I'm an eternal optimist Andrew as you
00:13:03 --> 00:13:06 know but uh the answer to Mike's last
00:13:06 --> 00:13:10 question does chying to listen um is uh
00:13:10 --> 00:13:13 we hope they will yeah yeah Fair Point
00:13:13 --> 00:13:17 and uh really um great question to ask
00:13:17 --> 00:13:20 um probably um it's a scary question to
00:13:20 --> 00:13:22 ask because you just you don't know with
00:13:22 --> 00:13:24 China they get they get offended at
00:13:24 --> 00:13:27 things um out of the blue and and they
00:13:27 --> 00:13:30 stop buying our wine and trades it was
00:13:30 --> 00:13:34 20 billion worth of of of trade
00:13:34 --> 00:13:37 exactly yeah anyway great questions Mike
00:13:37 --> 00:13:41 thanks for sending them in this is Space
00:13:41 --> 00:13:47 Nuts Andrew Dunley with Professor Fred
00:13:47 --> 00:13:51 Watson Space Nuts yep it's a Q&A Edition
00:13:51 --> 00:13:54 where we answer audience questions and
00:13:54 --> 00:13:56 we've got an audio question now from one
00:13:56 --> 00:13:59 of our uh regular sender iners it's
00:13:59 --> 00:14:01 Rusty from Donny Brook and Andre it's
00:14:01 --> 00:14:02 Rusty and Donny
00:14:02 --> 00:14:07 Brook when the dark energy said you
00:14:07 --> 00:14:10 really suck what did the ultra massive
00:14:10 --> 00:14:12 black hole say in
00:14:12 --> 00:14:14 response
00:14:14 --> 00:14:17 nothing he was too taken a back to get a
00:14:17 --> 00:14:18 word
00:14:18 --> 00:14:22 out and if black holes truly generate
00:14:22 --> 00:14:23 Dark
00:14:23 --> 00:14:27 Energy it's it got to be a local
00:14:27 --> 00:14:29 phenomenon because our study of
00:14:29 --> 00:14:31 gravitational waves uh have shown us
00:14:31 --> 00:14:35 that SpaceTime distorts at speed of
00:14:35 --> 00:14:39 light the effect would be too small uh
00:14:39 --> 00:14:43 to to be able to measure it in Stellar
00:14:43 --> 00:14:45 Mass black holes
00:14:45 --> 00:14:47 but as we get bigger the effect would be
00:14:47 --> 00:14:48 too
00:14:48 --> 00:14:52 cluttered uh in super massive black
00:14:52 --> 00:14:54 holes in galaxies
00:14:54 --> 00:14:58 too uh so that leaves Ultra massive
00:14:58 --> 00:14:59 black holes in in the center of large
00:14:59 --> 00:15:02 voids if there are
00:15:02 --> 00:15:05 any the how would an astronomer
00:15:05 --> 00:15:07 specializing in multiple object
00:15:07 --> 00:15:11 spectrometry Fred make
00:15:11 --> 00:15:13 observations to gain support for the
00:15:13 --> 00:15:15 existence of such ultr mative black
00:15:15 --> 00:15:18 holes and the granular nature of dark
00:15:18 --> 00:15:21 energy so this would replace the notion
00:15:21 --> 00:15:22 that large scale structure of the
00:15:22 --> 00:15:25 universe was caused by Sonic
00:15:25 --> 00:15:28 oscillations in the early Universe too
00:15:28 --> 00:15:32 so thanks Space Nuts have a good
00:15:32 --> 00:15:35 one thanks Rusty I I'm always worried
00:15:35 --> 00:15:37 about Rusty because he just tries to
00:15:37 --> 00:15:39 throw your a curveball occasionally Fred
00:15:39 --> 00:15:41 and I don't know if he's just tried
00:15:41 --> 00:15:45 again yeah um I mean the lovely thing
00:15:45 --> 00:15:47 about Rusty is that in uh three minutes
00:15:47 --> 00:15:50 he rewrites all the
00:15:50 --> 00:15:52 textbooks throws away the Big Bang
00:15:52 --> 00:15:54 throws away Dark Energy it doesn't throw
00:15:54 --> 00:15:56 away the D back uh but I see where he's
00:15:56 --> 00:15:57 the point he's making because we've
00:15:57 --> 00:16:01 covered this idea before that dark the
00:16:01 --> 00:16:03 ultimate source of dark energy might be
00:16:03 --> 00:16:05 black holes that's some research that I
00:16:05 --> 00:16:08 think was done early this
00:16:08 --> 00:16:14 year um and so Rusty's conclusion from
00:16:14 --> 00:16:17 that is that dark energy must be
00:16:17 --> 00:16:20 clumpy um which I think is a reasonable
00:16:20 --> 00:16:22 conclusion but I don't
00:16:22 --> 00:16:25 know that that is the conclusion that's
00:16:25 --> 00:16:27 drawn by the people who are the
00:16:27 --> 00:16:30 proponents of this Theory i' I'd need to
00:16:30 --> 00:16:32 go and have a look back at the theory of
00:16:32 --> 00:16:35 um black holes being the source of dark
00:16:35 --> 00:16:38 energy uh but if there were so look I'll
00:16:38 --> 00:16:40 rise to the challenge uh as a
00:16:40 --> 00:16:43 multiobject spectroscopist
00:16:43 --> 00:16:46 um which uh I'm not really anymore but I
00:16:47 --> 00:16:50 was uh I wouldn't that this would not be
00:16:50 --> 00:16:52 the tech the technique that you'd use
00:16:52 --> 00:16:56 though to detect them so what um what uh
00:16:56 --> 00:16:59 rust is uh proposing is that there are
00:16:59 --> 00:17:01 these things Ultram massive black holes
00:17:01 --> 00:17:04 which I guess we might say are more than
00:17:04 --> 00:17:07 100 billion times the mass of the Sun
00:17:07 --> 00:17:09 they would they're monsters absolute
00:17:09 --> 00:17:12 monsters but they're they're lurking
00:17:12 --> 00:17:15 around in the voids between
00:17:16 --> 00:17:20 galaxies now uh those voids are part of
00:17:20 --> 00:17:22 the sort of honeycomb structure of the
00:17:22 --> 00:17:24 universe that we think was imprinted in
00:17:24 --> 00:17:27 the Big Bang that the um the work that
00:17:27 --> 00:17:30 people do on uh on the the physics of
00:17:30 --> 00:17:32 the Big Bang event tell you that there
00:17:32 --> 00:17:34 will be these strings of dark matter
00:17:34 --> 00:17:38 which would uh collect hydrogen gas
00:17:38 --> 00:17:40 which would form stars and galaxies and
00:17:40 --> 00:17:43 so but those strings and sheets of Dark
00:17:43 --> 00:17:45 Matter make essentially what looks like
00:17:45 --> 00:17:47 a foam or a honeycomb pattern when you
00:17:47 --> 00:17:49 look on very large scales so in the
00:17:49 --> 00:17:50 middle of that there are very few
00:17:50 --> 00:17:53 galaxies so if you put a an Ultram
00:17:53 --> 00:17:55 massive black hole in the middle of that
00:17:55 --> 00:17:58 what would you see uh and the answer is
00:17:58 --> 00:18:02 you would expect to see when you looked
00:18:02 --> 00:18:03 in that direction because you'll be able
00:18:03 --> 00:18:05 to see the galaxies on the far side of
00:18:06 --> 00:18:09 that void a sheet of galaxies you would
00:18:09 --> 00:18:11 expect their images to be distorted in
00:18:11 --> 00:18:14 the way that we are familiar with uh
00:18:14 --> 00:18:16 gravitational lensing by a massive
00:18:16 --> 00:18:21 massive object um and so uh I don't
00:18:21 --> 00:18:24 believe that such distortions have been
00:18:24 --> 00:18:26 found in other words you know what you
00:18:26 --> 00:18:29 might see is is nothing there's a black
00:18:29 --> 00:18:32 hole sorry you see no no evidence of
00:18:32 --> 00:18:35 something in the in the inter in the um
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38 uh intermediate distance but in the far
00:18:38 --> 00:18:39 distance you'd be able to see galaxies
00:18:39 --> 00:18:42 and clusters of galaxies whose light
00:18:42 --> 00:18:44 will be distorted by the black hole that
00:18:44 --> 00:18:46 you couldn't see uh in the foreground if
00:18:46 --> 00:18:48 you see what I'm saying so I think we
00:18:48 --> 00:18:50 have evidence already of such
00:18:50 --> 00:18:54 ultramassive black holes okay so a void
00:18:54 --> 00:18:56 with a black hole would give you a
00:18:56 --> 00:18:59 vision of distorted galaxies that's now
00:18:59 --> 00:19:02 behind it whereas a void without a black
00:19:02 --> 00:19:05 hole you just wouldn't see anything no
00:19:05 --> 00:19:07 you'd see the galaxies but they wouldn't
00:19:07 --> 00:19:08 look any different from what they
00:19:08 --> 00:19:10 normally look yeah right got you know
00:19:10 --> 00:19:12 you can we we know from particularly
00:19:12 --> 00:19:15 from the new web images just how
00:19:15 --> 00:19:17 distorted the shapes of galaxies are
00:19:17 --> 00:19:19 when uh when they're seen through a
00:19:19 --> 00:19:23 gravitational lens caused by a cluster
00:19:23 --> 00:19:26 of galaxies in the foreground so yeah
00:19:26 --> 00:19:27 there interesting question though as
00:19:27 --> 00:19:30 rust's always they always
00:19:30 --> 00:19:33 are yeah yeah he he he's always thinking
00:19:33 --> 00:19:35 that's the thing and that's that's what
00:19:35 --> 00:19:37 it's all about um to provoke thought and
00:19:37 --> 00:19:39 come up with ideas and try to try to
00:19:39 --> 00:19:42 challenge those in the in the
00:19:42 --> 00:19:44 astronomical seats of power such as your
00:19:44 --> 00:19:47 good self FR uh yeah always always
00:19:47 --> 00:19:52 throwing out the challenge thank you
00:19:52 --> 00:19:56 Rusty and I feel fine Space Nuts and our
00:19:56 --> 00:19:59 final question reflects on uh an issue
00:19:59 --> 00:20:02 we spoke about fairly recently this
00:20:02 --> 00:20:05 comes from Mark hi it's Mark in London
00:20:05 --> 00:20:07 in Canada I was wondering you were
00:20:07 --> 00:20:10 talking recently about the astronauts
00:20:10 --> 00:20:14 being stranded and the Boeing space suit
00:20:14 --> 00:20:17 being incompatible with the SpaceX
00:20:17 --> 00:20:18 vehicle I was wondering what does that
00:20:18 --> 00:20:21 mean why can't they just wear their suit
00:20:21 --> 00:20:23 why what does the suit plug into the
00:20:23 --> 00:20:26 vehicle or what's the
00:20:26 --> 00:20:29 incompatibility appreciate uh an
00:20:29 --> 00:20:31 explanation on that thanks guys and um I
00:20:31 --> 00:20:33 figure Hugh's been in that studio for
00:20:33 --> 00:20:35 the best part of the decade so it's time
00:20:35 --> 00:20:37 to free you we need to start a campaign
00:20:37 --> 00:20:41 to let him go home thanks right um start
00:20:41 --> 00:20:43 a petition mark because I'm not going to
00:20:43 --> 00:20:44 help
00:20:44 --> 00:20:48 him H de um gosh people are starting to
00:20:48 --> 00:20:49 sympathize with Hugh and starting to
00:20:49 --> 00:20:52 worry me a
00:20:52 --> 00:20:55 lot um I'm I'm I'm sounding really evil
00:20:55 --> 00:20:59 now you are yeah you uh you know I I
00:20:59 --> 00:21:02 look I I think um I think Hugh deserves
00:21:02 --> 00:21:05 a break really um he's got us to put up
00:21:05 --> 00:21:07 with for a start yeah well that's true
00:21:07 --> 00:21:10 that's very true um Mark asks about
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13 space suit compatibility now we we go
00:21:13 --> 00:21:15 back to that situation where there were
00:21:15 --> 00:21:18 um I think with was three astronauts on
00:21:18 --> 00:21:20 the International Space Station who
00:21:20 --> 00:21:22 couldn't get back on the Boeing star
00:21:22 --> 00:21:24 liner because of a fault so it was sent
00:21:24 --> 00:21:27 back empty and they were to be returned
00:21:27 --> 00:21:29 on a space X
00:21:29 --> 00:21:34 um uh rocket if you like um but their
00:21:34 --> 00:21:37 suits the Boeing suits didn't work in
00:21:37 --> 00:21:38 the
00:21:38 --> 00:21:42 SpaceX uh vehicle and there was talk
00:21:42 --> 00:21:44 about sending them back in their
00:21:44 --> 00:21:47 underpants or something um because they
00:21:47 --> 00:21:49 just you know their suits were useless
00:21:49 --> 00:21:51 that would have been an emergency yeah
00:21:51 --> 00:21:53 that's right it would two you two
00:21:53 --> 00:21:55 astronauts not three as well it's Tony
00:21:55 --> 00:21:57 Williams and but butch Willmore that's
00:21:57 --> 00:21:59 right yeah yeah
00:21:59 --> 00:22:01 um and and they end coming back are they
00:22:01 --> 00:22:03 still there yeah they don't come back
00:22:03 --> 00:22:04 till
00:22:04 --> 00:22:06 February oh that's right yeah that's
00:22:06 --> 00:22:09 right yeah the Boeing starliners back
00:22:09 --> 00:22:12 all good and well but they're still up
00:22:12 --> 00:22:14 there Mark's question is a good one why
00:22:14 --> 00:22:16 can't they just wear their suits what's
00:22:16 --> 00:22:20 the problem so um so what's happened is
00:22:20 --> 00:22:23 that when uh the SpaceX it's not a
00:22:23 --> 00:22:25 rescue vehicle because it was already
00:22:25 --> 00:22:28 scheduled but when that basex uh craft
00:22:28 --> 00:22:32 went up to rendevu of the ISS which was
00:22:32 --> 00:22:33 uh last month was it or earlier this
00:22:33 --> 00:22:35 month I can't remember I think it's last
00:22:35 --> 00:22:38 month um it took uh SpaceX suits up with
00:22:38 --> 00:22:40 it uh it had a crew of only two rather
00:22:40 --> 00:22:43 than four and two empty suits for Butch
00:22:43 --> 00:22:46 Williams uh sorry Butch Wilmore and SNY
00:22:46 --> 00:22:50 Williams to come back with uh why do
00:22:50 --> 00:22:54 they need that well the Starliner and
00:22:54 --> 00:22:58 the SpaceX Dragon capsule are completely
00:22:58 --> 00:23:01 different they were developed
00:23:01 --> 00:23:04 independently uh and uh in in many ways
00:23:04 --> 00:23:07 NASA wanted two different uh ways of
00:23:07 --> 00:23:09 transporting their astronauts up and
00:23:09 --> 00:23:12 down to the space station um yeah
00:23:12 --> 00:23:15 because uh it it it gives them a choice
00:23:15 --> 00:23:17 that's the thing and it turns out that
00:23:17 --> 00:23:19 it's just as well that they did because
00:23:19 --> 00:23:22 the uh uh the you know SpaceX has had
00:23:23 --> 00:23:24 few far fewer problems than uh than
00:23:24 --> 00:23:27 Boeing have uh if if we've been waiting
00:23:27 --> 00:23:30 for Boeing still be waiting whereas crew
00:23:31 --> 00:23:32 dragon has been flying I think since
00:23:32 --> 00:23:34 2020 or thereabouts quite a while ago M
00:23:34 --> 00:23:37 2022 anyway uh they're different
00:23:37 --> 00:23:40 spacecraft they've got different uh um
00:23:40 --> 00:23:42 you know umbilical fittings they have
00:23:42 --> 00:23:45 different restraint fittings uh and
00:23:45 --> 00:23:48 entirely different appearance uh the way
00:23:48 --> 00:23:51 to check this out Mark is to have a look
00:23:51 --> 00:23:56 at the USA Today website uh and there is
00:23:56 --> 00:23:59 a story on that which is is entitled you
00:23:59 --> 00:24:01 can't use Starliner space suits in a
00:24:01 --> 00:24:04 SpaceX capsule these images show why and
00:24:04 --> 00:24:07 it becomes very obvious because all the
00:24:07 --> 00:24:09 plumbing is different the space suits
00:24:09 --> 00:24:11 are themselves quite different they've
00:24:11 --> 00:24:13 got different helmets uh different
00:24:13 --> 00:24:15 fittings different boots different
00:24:15 --> 00:24:18 gloves everything's different uh and
00:24:18 --> 00:24:20 they're not compatible that's the bottom
00:24:20 --> 00:24:22 line uh but but it's a very nice article
00:24:22 --> 00:24:23 actually it's got some lovely diagrams
00:24:23 --> 00:24:26 and illustrations showing showing the
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 differences there USA Today
00:24:29 --> 00:24:32 is the place to help for that I just I
00:24:32 --> 00:24:34 just found it and I'm just having a
00:24:34 --> 00:24:35 quick squee through it and yeah you're
00:24:35 --> 00:24:37 right there's some great diagrams and
00:24:37 --> 00:24:40 information in there and now just to
00:24:40 --> 00:24:44 clarify it a bit more I assume when you
00:24:44 --> 00:24:46 come back to earth um you can
00:24:46 --> 00:24:49 technically do it without a space suit
00:24:49 --> 00:24:51 so it's not like you have to have the
00:24:51 --> 00:24:53 suit on so that you can breathe or
00:24:53 --> 00:24:56 anything like that no that's right um
00:24:56 --> 00:25:00 it's it's uh it's basically a precaution
00:25:00 --> 00:25:03 uh you know if if the if on re-entry the
00:25:03 --> 00:25:06 spacecraft sprang a leak for example and
00:25:06 --> 00:25:08 and started depressurizing if you didn't
00:25:08 --> 00:25:09 have your space suit on you'd be in big
00:25:09 --> 00:25:12 trouble uh but that's an unlikely event
00:25:12 --> 00:25:15 um they I don't think it's ever happened
00:25:15 --> 00:25:21 before so so it's uh it's it's
00:25:21 --> 00:25:24 um they could have done it exactly as
00:25:24 --> 00:25:27 you've said had there been an emergency
00:25:27 --> 00:25:30 uh those astronauts Sunny Williams and
00:25:30 --> 00:25:32 Butch Wilmore could have come back in a
00:25:32 --> 00:25:35 crew Dragon flight I think they were
00:25:35 --> 00:25:38 rigging up uh sort of emergency seats in
00:25:38 --> 00:25:40 one of the crew Dragon craft just in
00:25:40 --> 00:25:43 case this needed to happen but yeah they
00:25:43 --> 00:25:47 wouldn't if had a had a space suit uh so
00:25:47 --> 00:25:49 it's um it would not have been possible
00:25:49 --> 00:25:51 for them to wear space suits on their
00:25:51 --> 00:25:53 way back but that will not now be the
00:25:53 --> 00:25:55 case that's fixed um because the there
00:25:55 --> 00:25:59 are now two extra space X space suits on
00:25:59 --> 00:26:01 the International Space Station for them
00:26:01 --> 00:26:02 to come back when they return in
00:26:02 --> 00:26:05 February uh and I do like you know that
00:26:05 --> 00:26:07 that article that I just mentioned the
00:26:07 --> 00:26:09 one you've just found it's got a really
00:26:09 --> 00:26:12 nice diagram of of what we mean by
00:26:12 --> 00:26:15 redundancy uh you know redundancy is uh
00:26:15 --> 00:26:17 to to build in safety precautions and
00:26:17 --> 00:26:20 you can either do similar redundancy or
00:26:20 --> 00:26:22 dissimilar redundancy and it's
00:26:22 --> 00:26:24 dissimilar redundancy that we're talking
00:26:24 --> 00:26:26 about here two independently designed
00:26:26 --> 00:26:29 systems performing the same task in two
00:26:29 --> 00:26:31 different ways yeah it sounds like VHS
00:26:31 --> 00:26:32 and
00:26:33 --> 00:26:37 beta maybe so yes that's right yeah yeah
00:26:37 --> 00:26:39 um it it reminds me of uh race car
00:26:39 --> 00:26:41 drivers I mean you could you could drive
00:26:41 --> 00:26:44 a race car in your underpants but it's
00:26:44 --> 00:26:46 much safer to wear the the fiery
00:26:46 --> 00:26:48 hardened suit that's correct of course
00:26:48 --> 00:26:52 and a helmet yeah absolutely exactly y
00:26:52 --> 00:26:54 all right Mark thank you very much uh
00:26:54 --> 00:26:56 great to hear from you thanks for all
00:26:56 --> 00:26:57 the questions and if you have questions
00:26:57 --> 00:27:00 for for us please send them through uh
00:27:00 --> 00:27:02 via our website you just go to Space
00:27:02 --> 00:27:05 Nuts podcast.com or space nuts.i then
00:27:05 --> 00:27:07 click that little thing at the top that
00:27:07 --> 00:27:09 says AMA and you can just fill in the
00:27:09 --> 00:27:12 blanks with um the ask me anything
00:27:12 --> 00:27:14 option uh in the form of a text question
00:27:14 --> 00:27:17 or you can just hit the start recording
00:27:17 --> 00:27:18 button and send us an audio question
00:27:18 --> 00:27:20 don't forget to tell us who you are and
00:27:20 --> 00:27:22 where you're from and while you're uh
00:27:22 --> 00:27:25 listening to us online uh please leave a
00:27:25 --> 00:27:27 review on your podcasting platform
00:27:27 --> 00:27:30 reviews very ful um they get us they get
00:27:30 --> 00:27:32 us noticed by more potential listeners
00:27:32 --> 00:27:34 and that's what it's all about uh thank
00:27:34 --> 00:27:37 you Fred we're done and dusted uh good
00:27:37 --> 00:27:39 job sounds great thanks Andrew and we'll
00:27:39 --> 00:27:44 talk again soon we will indeed and um am
00:27:44 --> 00:27:46 I going to release Hugh from the studio
00:27:46 --> 00:27:49 today no I am not and I've kept him on
00:27:49 --> 00:27:52 mute for the entire episode and from me
00:27:52 --> 00:27:54 Andrew Dunley thanks for your company
00:27:54 --> 00:27:55 we'll catch you on the next episode of
00:27:55 --> 00:27:58 Space Nuts bye-bye Space Nuts you'll be
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