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In this engaging Q&A episode of Space Nuts, host Andrew Dunkley is back alongside the ever-insightful Professor Fred Watson. Together, they tackle a range of intriguing questions from listeners, covering the potential discovery of life on exoplanet K2 18b, the mysteries of gravity and gravitons, and the latest on the Swan Comet.
Episode Highlights:
- The Buzz Around K2 18b: Andrew and Fred Watson discuss the recent excitement surrounding the detection of dimethyl sulphide on K2 18b, a potential biosignature. They delve into the implications of this discovery and the ongoing debate about the planet's habitability, while also addressing the sensationalist headlines that often accompany such findings.
- Gravity and Gravitons: A question from listener James prompts a fascinating discussion on the nature of gravity and the role of the Higgs particle versus the hypothetical graviton. Fred Watson explains the differences between these concepts and the complexities of how gravity operates at a fundamental level.
- Observing the Swan Comet: Ted from an undisclosed location shares his experiences of observing the Swan Comet, prompting a conversation about its current visibility and characteristics. Andrew and Fred Watson discuss the comet's colour, tail, and what makes it an interesting object for amateur astronomers.
- The Challenge of Fake News in Science: The episode wraps up with a thoughtful examination of how sensationalism in the media can distort scientific discoveries. Andrew and Fred Watson reflect on the responsibility of scientists and journalists alike to convey information accurately and responsibly.
For more Space Nuts, including our continually updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. (https://www.spacenutspodcast.com/) Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on Facebook, X, YouTube Music, Tumblr, Instagram, and TikTok. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favourite platform.
If you’d like to help support Space Nuts and join our growing family of insiders for commercial-free episodes and more, visit spacenutspodcast.com/about (https://www.spacenutspodcast.com/about)
Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
(00:00) Welcome to Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley and Fred Watson Watson
(01:20) Discussion on the potential discovery of life on K2 18b
(15:00) Exploring gravity and the role of gravitons
(25:30) Observing the Swan Comet
(35:00) The impact of sensationalism in scientific reporting
For commercial-free versions of Space Nuts, join us on Patreon, Supercast, Apple Podcasts, or become a supporter here: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support (https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss) .
Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/26954677?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Hi there, Andrew Dunley again, the host
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 of the Space Nuts podcast, and we are
00:00:05 --> 00:00:07 happy to bring you yet another episode.
00:00:07 --> 00:00:10 Uh, this is a Q&A episode where we'll be
00:00:10 --> 00:00:12 answering questions about the life that
00:00:12 --> 00:00:15 they think they may have found possibly
00:00:15 --> 00:00:17 could be done on
00:00:17 --> 00:00:21 K218B. Uh, gravity and gravitons, the
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 Swan comet, and hopefully not the
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 Swanong comet. Boom boom. And fake news.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:29 That's all coming up in this episode of
00:00:29 --> 00:00:32 Space Nuts. 15 seconds. Guidance is
00:00:32 --> 00:00:37 internal. 10 9 Ignition sequence start.
00:00:37 --> 00:00:43 Space Nuts. 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1
00:00:43 --> 00:00:45 Space Nuts. Astronauts reported. Sure
00:00:45 --> 00:00:48 does. And with me as always is Professor
00:00:48 --> 00:00:50 Fred. What's an astronomer at large?
00:00:50 --> 00:00:53 Hello, Fred. Hello, Andrew. Nice to see
00:00:53 --> 00:00:56 you again. Nice to see you, too. Yes.
00:00:56 --> 00:00:58 Um, still sort of getting back down to
00:00:58 --> 00:01:01 earth because only two minutes since we
00:01:01 --> 00:01:05 did the last separate prank. So, um,
00:01:05 --> 00:01:06 still getting over the jet lag, but
00:01:06 --> 00:01:09 that'll um, that'll pass. Um, didn't get
00:01:09 --> 00:01:11 seasick. I didn't mention that before in
00:01:11 --> 00:01:13 the last didn't get seasick at all.
00:01:13 --> 00:01:15 There were I think we only had one day
00:01:15 --> 00:01:17 where we hit some big swells and the
00:01:17 --> 00:01:19 captain came on and said, uh, as you can
00:01:20 --> 00:01:23 see, uh, the seas are rather u busy
00:01:24 --> 00:01:27 today. those waves are 14 ft uh 14 ft
00:01:27 --> 00:01:31 high. I thought 14 foot waves.
00:01:31 --> 00:01:35 Uh board with me at the time. So, um not
00:01:35 --> 00:01:37 that you need one where I live. But
00:01:37 --> 00:01:39 yeah, it was um it was it was a good
00:01:39 --> 00:01:42 ship. U very nice ship, very good staff.
00:01:42 --> 00:01:47 Had a great time. And um uh yeah, I I I
00:01:47 --> 00:01:49 won't go through all the the things we
00:01:49 --> 00:01:53 did. Um but I I will point out one
00:01:53 --> 00:01:55 thing. nothing to do with astronomy, but
00:01:55 --> 00:01:58 we we'd been to Las Vegas before 15
00:01:58 --> 00:02:02 years ago. And we were, you know, it's a
00:02:02 --> 00:02:04 sensory overload. Beend a couple of days
00:02:04 --> 00:02:06 there and you just can't wait to get
00:02:06 --> 00:02:08 out. It's just that it's just so in your
00:02:08 --> 00:02:12 face. We went back this time and I we
00:02:12 --> 00:02:14 didn't say it to each other until after
00:02:14 --> 00:02:16 we left, but we both felt the same that
00:02:16 --> 00:02:19 it it it's lost some of its mystique.
00:02:19 --> 00:02:22 And I put that down to the fact that a
00:02:22 --> 00:02:26 lot of the casinos had all sorts of
00:02:26 --> 00:02:28 things to try and get people in, like uh
00:02:28 --> 00:02:31 the Magic Garden and dolphin pools and
00:02:31 --> 00:02:36 white lions and um MGM Casino had lions
00:02:36 --> 00:02:41 in the casino living in in um I don't
00:02:41 --> 00:02:44 know, habitats that were built into the
00:02:44 --> 00:02:46 structure of the casino complex. It was
00:02:46 --> 00:02:49 really quite impressive. And um uh
00:02:49 --> 00:02:50 notwithstanding what the animal rights
00:02:50 --> 00:02:53 activists probably thought,
00:02:53 --> 00:02:55 that's all gone.
00:02:56 --> 00:02:57 Oh, most of that's gone. You know what
00:02:58 --> 00:03:01 they put in their place?
00:03:01 --> 00:03:05 Sports bars. Okay. Sports. You walk into
00:03:05 --> 00:03:09 a giant room that has teen televisions
00:03:09 --> 00:03:12 covering the space of a of a theater
00:03:12 --> 00:03:15 screen and just lists and lists of odds
00:03:15 --> 00:03:19 and a bar with 10 different kinds of
00:03:19 --> 00:03:21 drinks and people just sitting there
00:03:21 --> 00:03:23 betting on the whatever any sport you
00:03:23 --> 00:03:25 can think of. Ice hockey I think was the
00:03:25 --> 00:03:27 flavor of the month while we were there.
00:03:27 --> 00:03:30 Um yeah and we just walked away and went
00:03:30 --> 00:03:34 gee that's sad. That's it's sad. It's
00:03:34 --> 00:03:36 just um and and the um one of the big
00:03:36 --> 00:03:41 casinos there called the Mirage is gone.
00:03:41 --> 00:03:42 It's just gone. It's just flat ground
00:03:42 --> 00:03:44 there. They they've completely
00:03:44 --> 00:03:46 demolished it and they're going to
00:03:46 --> 00:03:48 replace it with a Hard Rock um you've
00:03:48 --> 00:03:49 heard of Hard Rock Cafe. They're going
00:03:49 --> 00:03:53 to have a hard rock, you know, day.
00:03:53 --> 00:03:55 Unbelievable.
00:03:55 --> 00:03:57 But uh yeah, anyway, that's beside the
00:03:57 --> 00:03:58 point. We've got some questions to get
00:03:58 --> 00:03:59 to,
00:03:59 --> 00:04:02 Fred, and we might as well get stuck
00:04:02 --> 00:04:03 straight into it. I'm going to read them
00:04:04 --> 00:04:06 all today because I've been away and I I
00:04:06 --> 00:04:07 cleared the deck. So, if you've got
00:04:07 --> 00:04:09 questions, send them in because I have
00:04:09 --> 00:04:12 absolutely wiped the slate clean. If you
00:04:12 --> 00:04:13 had a question in and we didn't answer
00:04:13 --> 00:04:15 it, that's on me. Send me your hate mail
00:04:16 --> 00:04:19 because um I I'm starting from scratch.
00:04:19 --> 00:04:23 Fresh material from next Q&A episode
00:04:23 --> 00:04:25 onwards. So, um send them in via our
00:04:26 --> 00:04:28 website. So, first one from Martin
00:04:28 --> 00:04:32 Burman Gorvine of PTOAC, Maryland.
00:04:32 --> 00:04:35 Hello, Space Nuts. That's what I won't
00:04:35 --> 00:04:37 do it. Uh, author and writer
00:04:38 --> 00:04:39 extraordinaire. He asks about the recent
00:04:40 --> 00:04:41 buzz surrounding the possible detection
00:04:41 --> 00:04:44 of life on exoplanet
00:04:44 --> 00:04:47 K218b, specifically dimemental sulfide.
00:04:47 --> 00:04:50 Did I say that right? Uh, which could be
00:04:50 --> 00:04:52 a bio signature. And while acknowledging
00:04:52 --> 00:04:54 it's too early to draw any big
00:04:54 --> 00:04:56 conclusions, but that hasn't stopped the
00:04:56 --> 00:04:57 popular press. I threw that in. Not
00:04:58 --> 00:05:00 Martin. Martin playfully wonders, "If
00:05:00 --> 00:05:03 life is found there, might they grant
00:05:04 --> 00:05:06 asylum to a struggling American sci-fi
00:05:06 --> 00:05:12 writer disillusioned with Earth?"
00:05:12 --> 00:05:16 Away with words. He does. He does. Um,
00:05:16 --> 00:05:19 now I know I know you covered K28B
00:05:19 --> 00:05:22 um the other day with with Heidi. Uh,
00:05:22 --> 00:05:24 but there there's been has there been
00:05:24 --> 00:05:27 any more information about it? I I think
00:05:27 --> 00:05:30 what's happened is um it's it it's
00:05:30 --> 00:05:33 basically caused a lot of serious
00:05:33 --> 00:05:35 reflection
00:05:35 --> 00:05:38 uh among the science community and the
00:05:38 --> 00:05:41 philosophy community as well uh who have
00:05:41 --> 00:05:45 muscled into this um with quite quite
00:05:45 --> 00:05:47 you know understandably
00:05:47 --> 00:05:48 um as to what we're really doing here
00:05:48 --> 00:05:50 what we're looking for when we when
00:05:50 --> 00:05:53 we're looking for evidence of alien life
00:05:53 --> 00:05:56 uh and I I think there are two aspects
00:05:56 --> 00:05:59 of this. One is first of all there is
00:05:59 --> 00:06:04 still some doubt about the uh the actual
00:06:04 --> 00:06:07 detection of these um these compounds
00:06:07 --> 00:06:10 these molecules um there are two of them
00:06:10 --> 00:06:13 that have been found they so the authors
00:06:14 --> 00:06:16 claim there the authors come from the US
00:06:16 --> 00:06:20 and the UK uh um dimethile sulfide and
00:06:20 --> 00:06:24 dimethile dulfide those are the two
00:06:24 --> 00:06:28 which on earth are products of the
00:06:28 --> 00:06:32 environment caused by phytolantum, those
00:06:32 --> 00:06:36 little microbes that live in water. Uh,
00:06:36 --> 00:06:41 and the the authors of the paper have
00:06:41 --> 00:06:44 drawn a few strings here. This this is a
00:06:44 --> 00:06:46 world that's actually bigger than Earth.
00:06:46 --> 00:06:50 It's uh about um 8.6 times the mass of
00:06:50 --> 00:06:52 the Earth, about 2.6 times the diameter
00:06:52 --> 00:06:56 of Earth. Yeah. uh and the authors
00:06:56 --> 00:06:58 believe that this is something called a
00:06:58 --> 00:07:01 haishen world and a haishen world it's a
00:07:01 --> 00:07:04 great word actually uh is an
00:07:04 --> 00:07:07 amalgamation of hydrogen and ocean
00:07:07 --> 00:07:09 basically an ocean world with a hydrogen
00:07:09 --> 00:07:12 atmosphere so it's been called a hyishen
00:07:12 --> 00:07:15 world uh we think they exist um and the
00:07:16 --> 00:07:17 authors of this paper think that they've
00:07:17 --> 00:07:22 got evidence to suggest that uh K28b is
00:07:22 --> 00:07:24 actually a hyishen world Now, there are
00:07:24 --> 00:07:26 other authors who've stepped in and
00:07:26 --> 00:07:27 said, "Wait a minute. We think it's too
00:07:27 --> 00:07:30 hot for that. We think it's, you know,
00:07:30 --> 00:07:32 it's got volcanic activity and it's not
00:07:32 --> 00:07:35 it's not a worldrence ocean at all." So,
00:07:35 --> 00:07:37 that's a moot point. But the the
00:07:37 --> 00:07:39 detection of these uh of these
00:07:39 --> 00:07:42 chemicals, the the DMS as it's called,
00:07:42 --> 00:07:44 and DMDS, uh the abbreviations for them
00:07:44 --> 00:07:46 because it's too hard to say
00:07:46 --> 00:07:49 dethile sulfide.
00:07:49 --> 00:07:51 uh they are um
00:07:51 --> 00:07:55 uh those detections themselves are in
00:07:55 --> 00:07:57 some doubt because they're at a
00:07:57 --> 00:07:59 confidence level. Yes, it's
00:07:59 --> 00:08:02 99.7% certain but that's not the pretty
00:08:02 --> 00:08:06 well 100% that science demands. No. Um
00:08:06 --> 00:08:07 and so there's still uncertainty about
00:08:07 --> 00:08:10 that. So that's one aspect that maybe
00:08:10 --> 00:08:11 this is a
00:08:11 --> 00:08:13 misidentification of features in the
00:08:13 --> 00:08:17 spectrum of the atmosphere of of K28b.
00:08:18 --> 00:08:21 But the other side of it is um one or
00:08:21 --> 00:08:24 two people have pointed out that these
00:08:24 --> 00:08:28 chemicals have been detected in the uh
00:08:28 --> 00:08:33 gaseous envelopes of comets. Uh now on
00:08:33 --> 00:08:35 Earth, yes, they only come from
00:08:35 --> 00:08:37 biological activity, but where they're
00:08:37 --> 00:08:39 going to come from on a comet uh whose
00:08:39 --> 00:08:43 temperature is -200° C. Uh it's a so
00:08:43 --> 00:08:45 there's got to be chemical reactions
00:08:45 --> 00:08:48 that are independent of life that that
00:08:48 --> 00:08:50 will um that will actually generate
00:08:50 --> 00:08:54 these what have been called biomarkers.
00:08:54 --> 00:08:55 And so the question is are they
00:08:56 --> 00:08:59 biomarkers at all? Uh, or is it are we
00:08:59 --> 00:09:03 just clutching at at straws? Um, do you
00:09:03 --> 00:09:04 know that one of the one of the articles
00:09:04 --> 00:09:07 I read, I really like the the term. It
00:09:07 --> 00:09:09 was um something to the effect that
00:09:09 --> 00:09:12 we've been hunting for uh needles in a
00:09:12 --> 00:09:14 hay stack. And is this just a
00:09:14 --> 00:09:16 particularly sharp piece of hay that
00:09:16 --> 00:09:19 they found? And that could be the the
00:09:19 --> 00:09:22 case is very nicely put.
00:09:22 --> 00:09:24 So, and so that's where the philosophers
00:09:24 --> 00:09:25 have come in and said, you know, we
00:09:25 --> 00:09:28 really we've no idea what alien life
00:09:28 --> 00:09:33 might look like. Um, and to to sort of
00:09:33 --> 00:09:37 in many ways, um, u blinker ourselves so
00:09:37 --> 00:09:39 that we're only looking for things that
00:09:39 --> 00:09:41 are found on Earth that are markers of
00:09:41 --> 00:09:45 bi biological activity. Uh, maybe we
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 have to be looking much broader in a
00:09:48 --> 00:09:49 much broader sense. Now people have said
00:09:49 --> 00:09:51 this for a long time but I think this
00:09:51 --> 00:09:53 particular discovery has really
00:09:53 --> 00:09:57 heightened uh the concentration of
00:09:57 --> 00:09:59 philosophers coming in on this and
00:09:59 --> 00:10:02 there's a very interesting article on
00:10:02 --> 00:10:05 the conversation uh and its title is
00:10:05 --> 00:10:06 scientists claim to have found evidence
00:10:06 --> 00:10:09 of alien life but bio signatures might
00:10:09 --> 00:10:11 hide more than they reveal and that
00:10:11 --> 00:10:14 comes from a scientist who is actually
00:10:14 --> 00:10:17 um a a PhD candidate in the philosophy
00:10:18 --> 00:10:20 of biology. ology at Sydney University.
00:10:20 --> 00:10:22 So this this is philosophy rather than
00:10:22 --> 00:10:25 science, but um it's a scientific
00:10:25 --> 00:10:27 article and it makes the point that
00:10:28 --> 00:10:29 maybe what we should be looking for is
00:10:29 --> 00:10:31 not life as we know it, but life as we
00:10:31 --> 00:10:34 don't know it because it could be
00:10:34 --> 00:10:36 different. Yes, we've talked about that
00:10:36 --> 00:10:39 before that we we make I suppose
00:10:39 --> 00:10:41 logically make assumptions that life
00:10:41 --> 00:10:43 elsewhere might just be like it is on
00:10:43 --> 00:10:47 Earth, but it it might be so alien to us
00:10:47 --> 00:10:50 we probably wouldn't even notice it. Y
00:10:50 --> 00:10:53 don't know what we're looking for. So on
00:10:53 --> 00:10:54 the other hand, you know, the other side
00:10:54 --> 00:10:56 of this coin is all we can look for is
00:10:56 --> 00:10:58 bio signatures as we think we interpret
00:10:58 --> 00:11:01 them from Earth. So we've got a few
00:11:01 --> 00:11:04 interesting steps to take here. So I
00:11:04 --> 00:11:08 think that the um K218B story has yet to
00:11:08 --> 00:11:10 run quite a long way. I think there'll
00:11:10 --> 00:11:13 be more observations of it. Uh maybe
00:11:13 --> 00:11:14 with the James Web, but certainly with
00:11:14 --> 00:11:18 the uh the ESO ELT when that comes on
00:11:18 --> 00:11:21 stream, the 39 m optical telescope. Uh
00:11:21 --> 00:11:24 that will probably give us a much firmer
00:11:24 --> 00:11:27 view of whether DMS and DMDS are are
00:11:27 --> 00:11:28 actually in the atmosphere. But the
00:11:28 --> 00:11:30 philosophy of what we're looking for, I
00:11:30 --> 00:11:31 think, is perhaps almost the more
00:11:31 --> 00:11:34 interesting aspect of this. It kind of
00:11:34 --> 00:11:37 reminds me of the recent discovery that
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39 they announced about the atmosphere of
00:11:39 --> 00:11:41 Venus. Venus. Yes. And that was
00:11:41 --> 00:11:43 ultimately debunked, but I think it's
00:11:43 --> 00:11:43 been
00:11:43 --> 00:11:46 undebunked again. Yeah. Yes, it has.
00:11:46 --> 00:11:48 Yeah, that's right. But it's still very
00:11:48 --> 00:11:50 very controversial. Yes. Yes. Yes,
00:11:50 --> 00:11:52 indeed. But um again, that was
00:11:52 --> 00:11:55 phosphine, wasn't it? It was. Uh but
00:11:55 --> 00:11:58 once again phosphine is only a biioarker
00:11:58 --> 00:12:02 under certain circumstances and you know
00:12:02 --> 00:12:04 that's the thing it may just there may
00:12:04 --> 00:12:08 be natural causes of it in the um in the
00:12:08 --> 00:12:09 atmosphere of Venus. It's the same
00:12:09 --> 00:12:14 situation. It was first of all a very um
00:12:14 --> 00:12:17 uh perhaps um adventurous identification
00:12:17 --> 00:12:19 of a chemical that you found because the
00:12:19 --> 00:12:23 data really don't match up to it yet. uh
00:12:23 --> 00:12:25 that coupled with the fact that there
00:12:25 --> 00:12:26 may be other ways that this this
00:12:26 --> 00:12:29 compound can be can be formed. No, it is
00:12:29 --> 00:12:31 fascinating. I was just reading some of
00:12:31 --> 00:12:32 the headlines of the of the major
00:12:32 --> 00:12:35 outlets that have have latched onto this
00:12:35 --> 00:12:37 story and it goes to what Fenton is
00:12:37 --> 00:12:40 asking us about it. There's that one
00:12:40 --> 00:12:42 till last because it's my favorite topic
00:12:42 --> 00:12:44 at the moment. So, um we'll we'll get
00:12:44 --> 00:12:46 into that. But uh and and that Venus
00:12:46 --> 00:12:49 story pops up in in the list of fake
00:12:49 --> 00:12:52 news stories, but it it fake news is a
00:12:52 --> 00:12:54 terrible way to describe it. These were
00:12:54 --> 00:12:57 probably genuine attempts to to come up
00:12:57 --> 00:13:00 with theories and ideas and um um some
00:13:00 --> 00:13:02 of them missed the mark. So yeah, fake
00:13:02 --> 00:13:04 news is I don't know who popularized
00:13:04 --> 00:13:07 that, but anyway, we'll carry on. Martin
00:13:07 --> 00:13:09 knows who it was. Thank you, Martin.
00:13:09 --> 00:13:11 Great to hear from you. Uh different,
00:13:11 --> 00:13:16 unusual, um but always welcome.
00:13:16 --> 00:13:17 Let's take a short break from the show
00:13:17 --> 00:13:21 to tell you about our sponsor Insta 360.
00:13:21 --> 00:13:24 Now, as you know, and particularly if
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00:16:54 --> 00:16:59 show notes that's
00:16:59 --> 00:17:02 install.insta360.com. Now back to the
00:17:02 --> 00:17:06 show here. Space nuts. Uh next question
00:17:06 --> 00:17:08 comes from James. Uh we're not sure
00:17:08 --> 00:17:10 where James is, but I'm sure he knows
00:17:10 --> 00:17:12 where he is. Uh this is about gravity
00:17:12 --> 00:17:14 and gravitons. The Higs particle
00:17:14 --> 00:17:16 generates the field that gives other
00:17:16 --> 00:17:19 particles mass. Gravity is a property of
00:17:19 --> 00:17:21 mass directly proportional to the mass
00:17:21 --> 00:17:24 of an object. In other words, why do we
00:17:24 --> 00:17:27 need another particle as in a graviton
00:17:27 --> 00:17:30 to provide gravity? That's a good one.
00:17:30 --> 00:17:33 It is. Yes, it is a good one. And
00:17:33 --> 00:17:36 certainly um the uh the particle
00:17:36 --> 00:17:38 physicists do see uh these as two
00:17:38 --> 00:17:42 completely separate things. Um the Higs
00:17:42 --> 00:17:44 particle
00:17:44 --> 00:17:48 uh was proposed as as being something
00:17:48 --> 00:17:51 that the other particles needed back in
00:17:51 --> 00:17:54 I think it was 1966 or 1967 by Peter
00:17:54 --> 00:17:56 Higs at the University of Edinburgh who
00:17:56 --> 00:17:58 I think he died only a couple of years
00:17:58 --> 00:18:02 ago if I remember rightly. Um, and I
00:18:02 --> 00:18:05 mean the graviton has is still a is
00:18:05 --> 00:18:09 still a hypothetical particle. Um, but
00:18:09 --> 00:18:11 it and it but it's different from what
00:18:11 --> 00:18:15 the Higs does. Uh, the way to interpret
00:18:15 --> 00:18:19 the Higs is very much as the particle
00:18:19 --> 00:18:22 that uh, as exactly as James says, it
00:18:22 --> 00:18:24 generates the field that gives particles
00:18:24 --> 00:18:27 mass. Um, and the field is it's like a
00:18:27 --> 00:18:31 force field. Um the the the way um I
00:18:31 --> 00:18:34 read a lovely interpretation of of uh of
00:18:34 --> 00:18:38 this that um if you imagine a some you
00:18:38 --> 00:18:40 know something like a marble moving
00:18:40 --> 00:18:44 around uh in space then it's it's moving
00:18:44 --> 00:18:48 freely and uh you you don't really have
00:18:48 --> 00:18:50 anything to sense its mass. But if you
00:18:50 --> 00:18:54 put it in a jar of tle or honey uh then
00:18:54 --> 00:18:57 the the trile or the honey actually
00:18:57 --> 00:19:00 mimics the Higs field and it it provides
00:19:00 --> 00:19:03 a resistance which is proportional to
00:19:03 --> 00:19:05 the mass of the particle. And so the
00:19:05 --> 00:19:06 Higs
00:19:06 --> 00:19:09 particle you know this is my
00:19:09 --> 00:19:10 understanding of it. I'm not a particle
00:19:10 --> 00:19:11 physicist and I don't think I'm
00:19:12 --> 00:19:13 explaining this particularly well, but
00:19:14 --> 00:19:16 it has a different function from what
00:19:16 --> 00:19:19 the hypothetical graviton has, which
00:19:19 --> 00:19:22 would be um transmitting another field,
00:19:22 --> 00:19:25 the field of gravity, that's a field as
00:19:25 --> 00:19:29 well. Uh but um but would have different
00:19:29 --> 00:19:32 characteristics from the Higs particle
00:19:32 --> 00:19:34 uh providing the the gravitation. I I
00:19:34 --> 00:19:36 suspect James is not going to be
00:19:36 --> 00:19:38 convinced by my explanation here. Uh
00:19:38 --> 00:19:40 because his question, why do we need
00:19:40 --> 00:19:42 another particle to provide gravity? Um
00:19:42 --> 00:19:44 all I'm saying is that gravity is a
00:19:44 --> 00:19:47 different thing from the Higs field. Um
00:19:47 --> 00:19:50 and so we need another particle for it.
00:19:50 --> 00:19:53 Uh but um I hope you'll take that uh and
00:19:53 --> 00:19:55 perhaps uh James, you know, follow up on
00:19:55 --> 00:19:57 some of the uh on some of the stuff you
00:19:57 --> 00:19:59 can find online that really talks about
00:19:59 --> 00:20:01 the difference between these particles.
00:20:01 --> 00:20:05 L. Yeah. Go on. I was just going to say
00:20:05 --> 00:20:07 the first thing I'd Google would be
00:20:07 --> 00:20:08 what's the difference between a Higs
00:20:08 --> 00:20:11 particle and a graviton.
00:20:11 --> 00:20:12 Done that because I haven't had time,
00:20:12 --> 00:20:15 but that's right. And
00:20:15 --> 00:20:19 um Peter Higs died last year, was it?
00:20:19 --> 00:20:21 Last year. Yeah. Yeah. April the 10th.
00:20:22 --> 00:20:24 So just over a year. Yes. Yes. Much
00:20:24 --> 00:20:26 missed. He was a great man. Yes, indeed
00:20:26 --> 00:20:30 he was. Uh thank you, James. This is
00:20:30 --> 00:20:32 Space Nuts. You're with Andrew Dunley
00:20:32 --> 00:20:35 and Professor Fred
00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 Watson. Now, a word from our sponsor
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00:23:14 --> 00:23:17 show. Okay, we checked all four systems
00:23:17 --> 00:23:20 and with Space Nuts. Next question comes
00:23:20 --> 00:23:24 from Ted. No known location, no known
00:23:24 --> 00:23:27 abode. It reminds me though, Fred, when
00:23:27 --> 00:23:30 we um No, I hope this this is not a
00:23:30 --> 00:23:32 reflection on on Ted at all, but when we
00:23:32 --> 00:23:35 were in Las Vegas, I was walking across
00:23:35 --> 00:23:37 the street and there was a homeless guy
00:23:37 --> 00:23:39 in a wheelchair on the opposite side.
00:23:39 --> 00:23:40 And I was walking straight towards him
00:23:40 --> 00:23:43 and he had a sign and next to it a
00:23:43 --> 00:23:45 bottle for people to put in tips. And
00:23:45 --> 00:23:48 you read the sign and it it it honestly
00:23:48 --> 00:23:51 it I can't say it because it is it it's
00:23:51 --> 00:23:55 got a nasty word in it, but it was
00:23:55 --> 00:23:58 something word Trump and you can figure
00:23:58 --> 00:24:00 it out for yourself. But if you agreed
00:24:00 --> 00:24:02 with him, you gave him a tip. If you
00:24:02 --> 00:24:05 didn't, you just kept walking.
00:24:05 --> 00:24:08 So each man well he had quite a few
00:24:08 --> 00:24:11 quite a few um handfuls of change when I
00:24:11 --> 00:24:14 went past. But um yeah um that's beside
00:24:14 --> 00:24:17 the point. But uh Ted Ted wants to know,
00:24:17 --> 00:24:19 "I've been observing the Swan Comet
00:24:19 --> 00:24:21 every morning for the last few days.
00:24:21 --> 00:24:23 Please discuss this if you have not
00:24:23 --> 00:24:25 already done so." Well, I'm going to ask
00:24:25 --> 00:24:26 you anyway, Fred, because I was
00:24:26 --> 00:24:30 interested in it. Um what's the latest?
00:24:30 --> 00:24:32 Yeah, it's um we haven't discussed it
00:24:32 --> 00:24:35 already. Um, so, uh, it's it's a it's a
00:24:35 --> 00:24:38 timely, uh, a timely question from TED
00:24:38 --> 00:24:40 and great to hear, Ted, that you've been
00:24:40 --> 00:24:42 observing it, uh, because it's not an
00:24:42 --> 00:24:45 easy object to observe. It's, um, it's
00:24:45 --> 00:24:47 quite faint. It's certainly below a
00:24:47 --> 00:24:50 naked eye visibility. It full name is C
00:24:50 --> 00:24:55 2025 F2 swan. Uh, and it's, uh, a
00:24:55 --> 00:24:59 morning object at the moment. Um, I
00:24:59 --> 00:25:03 haven't observed it. Uh I not a morning
00:25:03 --> 00:25:05 person because astronomers aren't
00:25:05 --> 00:25:07 generally unless there's an object like
00:25:07 --> 00:25:10 swan that they really want to see. Um uh
00:25:10 --> 00:25:14 but yes it's um it's a interesting
00:25:14 --> 00:25:18 object because it's quite um bluish in
00:25:18 --> 00:25:22 color. um uh the
00:25:22 --> 00:25:25 the you know the the the the
00:25:25 --> 00:25:29 observations that you can see made with
00:25:29 --> 00:25:31 relatively small telescopes definitely
00:25:31 --> 00:25:35 give it a bluish tinge. Uh it's um it's
00:25:35 --> 00:25:40 got a tail that is very very thin. I
00:25:40 --> 00:25:42 haven't seen images of its tail, but I
00:25:42 --> 00:25:45 believe it's it's very very thin and
00:25:45 --> 00:25:48 it's roughly a degree or so long. Um,
00:25:48 --> 00:25:51 but good on TED for for observing it.
00:25:51 --> 00:25:54 It's it's probably fading. Uh, although
00:25:54 --> 00:25:57 not apparently fading as fast as some
00:25:57 --> 00:26:00 observers have expected.
00:26:00 --> 00:26:02 Yeah, some articles are describing it as
00:26:02 --> 00:26:04 green, but
00:26:04 --> 00:26:07 um, the different objects being
00:26:07 --> 00:26:10 different colors. Um, yes, that John
00:26:10 --> 00:26:14 sent me some images the other day of um
00:26:14 --> 00:26:16 what was probably a meteor or meteorite
00:26:16 --> 00:26:19 um scraping our uh our what do you call
00:26:20 --> 00:26:24 it? Atmosphere and uh and it was green,
00:26:24 --> 00:26:28 bright green. Um but they're not always
00:26:28 --> 00:26:30 color. Yeah. So that's from the the
00:26:30 --> 00:26:34 oxygen uh in the upper atmosphere um
00:26:34 --> 00:26:35 that you get from a fireball or a
00:26:35 --> 00:26:39 meteor. And yeah, I think um blue comes
00:26:39 --> 00:26:41 if I remember rightly, I probably got
00:26:41 --> 00:26:43 this wrong. Carbon monoxide in a comet.
00:26:43 --> 00:26:45 Okay. Or that might be the green. I
00:26:45 --> 00:26:47 can't remember. But yes, the color is
00:26:48 --> 00:26:50 essentially it means it tell it's
00:26:50 --> 00:26:51 telling you something about the the
00:26:51 --> 00:26:54 gases that make up the or the frozen
00:26:54 --> 00:26:55 gases that make up the comet because
00:26:55 --> 00:26:57 that's what they are. They're they're
00:26:57 --> 00:27:00 balls of frozen gas. Green comets glow
00:27:00 --> 00:27:02 primarily due to a molecule called
00:27:02 --> 00:27:05 diatomic carbon. Yes, that's right
00:27:05 --> 00:27:08 indeed. And the emission of blue light
00:27:08 --> 00:27:12 is um it just says ionized gases such as
00:27:12 --> 00:27:15 carbon monoxide. Yeah. So, at least I
00:27:15 --> 00:27:18 got that one right. One, you're doing
00:27:18 --> 00:27:20 well. Yeah,
00:27:20 --> 00:27:22 but I haven't seen the comet. But thank
00:27:22 --> 00:27:24 you very much for Yeah. for raising it
00:27:24 --> 00:27:26 with space. It's nice to have a mention
00:27:26 --> 00:27:28 of it, too. We've had We've had quite a
00:27:28 --> 00:27:30 glut of comets lately, haven't we? Yeah.
00:27:30 --> 00:27:32 It's not been bad. That's right.
00:27:32 --> 00:27:34 and especially those big ones that
00:27:34 --> 00:27:37 threaten us. But anyway, we'll we'll not
00:27:37 --> 00:27:39 go there. Uh thank you, Ted. Lovely to
00:27:39 --> 00:27:41 hear from you. Finally, we're going to
00:27:41 --> 00:27:43 um discuss something that has been
00:27:43 --> 00:27:45 brought up by Fenton in St. Paul,
00:27:45 --> 00:27:48 Minnesota. Uh I've been an enthusiastic
00:27:48 --> 00:27:50 follower of your podcast for several
00:27:50 --> 00:27:51 years and have no doubt about the
00:27:52 --> 00:27:53 quality of your
00:27:53 --> 00:27:55 knowledge. I was laughing at myself
00:27:55 --> 00:27:58 then. uh analyses and conclusions which
00:27:58 --> 00:28:00 you reach during the discussions even
00:28:00 --> 00:28:02 when you infer I don't know he's talking
00:28:02 --> 00:28:05 about you there I just I just came
00:28:05 --> 00:28:07 across the following lay person article
00:28:07 --> 00:28:10 which voices an opinion on sensational
00:28:10 --> 00:28:12 results which make it into the popular
00:28:12 --> 00:28:14 press several examples pertain to
00:28:14 --> 00:28:17 astronomy and astrophysics uh is it
00:28:17 --> 00:28:19 worth commenting on this phenomenon in
00:28:19 --> 00:28:23 your podcasts uh that comes from Fenton
00:28:23 --> 00:28:25 thank you Fenton um Fenton's a regular
00:28:25 --> 00:28:28 Lovely to hear from you. Um, this is
00:28:28 --> 00:28:32 something Jonty her talked about while
00:28:32 --> 00:28:34 he filled in for you a couple of months
00:28:34 --> 00:28:38 ago and he was very very scathing on the
00:28:38 --> 00:28:41 way the popular press misinterprets or
00:28:41 --> 00:28:43 just goes for the sensationalist
00:28:43 --> 00:28:45 headline and I think we've seen it a bit
00:28:45 --> 00:28:48 with the um, life on the other planet
00:28:48 --> 00:28:51 that we talked about earlier um,
00:28:51 --> 00:28:53 K218b. There's been a bit of that going
00:28:53 --> 00:28:56 on. Um, a lot of them have actually been
00:28:56 --> 00:28:58 very good and said, "Look, we don't
00:28:58 --> 00:29:00 know. This is what scientists are hoping
00:29:00 --> 00:29:03 and thinking and studying, but it's not
00:29:03 --> 00:29:05 confirmed." But others have gone, "Oh,
00:29:05 --> 00:29:07 life on another planet. Boom. End of
00:29:07 --> 00:29:10 story. Not true." Or they probably put
00:29:10 --> 00:29:13 it in the last paragraph. That happens a
00:29:13 --> 00:29:17 lot, unfortunately. Fred, where I know I
00:29:17 --> 00:29:20 know where Jonty stands. Uh, I'm sure
00:29:20 --> 00:29:23 your um thoughts are probably similar.
00:29:23 --> 00:29:25 They're they're similar. That's right.
00:29:25 --> 00:29:28 Um it's partly, you know, as scientists
00:29:28 --> 00:29:31 in many ways, it's partly our own fault.
00:29:31 --> 00:29:35 Um because we do tend to couch things in
00:29:35 --> 00:29:38 may and perhapses and possibilities. And
00:29:38 --> 00:29:40 of course, that's what the media pick up
00:29:40 --> 00:29:45 on. Um uh it's uh it
00:29:45 --> 00:29:51 is hard to avoid that. I think
00:29:51 --> 00:29:53 um we have to be careful though. I mean
00:29:53 --> 00:29:56 the the the you know the story we
00:29:56 --> 00:29:59 discussed uh a few minutes ago about K2
00:29:59 --> 00:30:03 18B. M um a quote from the lead author
00:30:03 --> 00:30:09 of the paper was that um he says that
00:30:09 --> 00:30:09 the
00:30:09 --> 00:30:13 most obvious interpretation of the
00:30:13 --> 00:30:19 discovery is that the um the uh planet
00:30:19 --> 00:30:23 K218b is a hyishen world teameming with
00:30:23 --> 00:30:26 life and that's that's throwing you know
00:30:26 --> 00:30:30 it's just throwing the a grenade into
00:30:30 --> 00:30:33 the uh the media because they'll pick up
00:30:33 --> 00:30:34 on that and that's the headline teaming
00:30:34 --> 00:30:38 with life. Um but we've got absolutely
00:30:38 --> 00:30:42 no evidence for that. Uh even if uh the
00:30:42 --> 00:30:46 observations of these chemicals uh is is
00:30:46 --> 00:30:50 confirmed uh it's still not proof of
00:30:50 --> 00:30:52 living organisms. And so to say it's
00:30:52 --> 00:30:54 teameing with life, I mean he didn't say
00:30:54 --> 00:30:56 it's teeming with life. He said that
00:30:56 --> 00:30:58 that the the simplest interpretation of
00:30:58 --> 00:31:00 what they found is that that's the case,
00:31:00 --> 00:31:02 but that does not mean it is the case.
00:31:02 --> 00:31:05 And yes, the media pick up on that. Um
00:31:05 --> 00:31:09 I'm also reminded as well as the sorts
00:31:09 --> 00:31:10 of discoveries like the phosphine on
00:31:10 --> 00:31:13 Venus and all of the other things. Um
00:31:13 --> 00:31:15 it's seems to be happening less often
00:31:15 --> 00:31:19 now, but for a while uh every almost
00:31:19 --> 00:31:22 every month we got a picture of um a
00:31:22 --> 00:31:24 doorway on Mars
00:31:24 --> 00:31:27 or you know a tire on Mars, a truck
00:31:27 --> 00:31:30 tire. There was one which was a bowl of
00:31:30 --> 00:31:32 hat on Mars. So somebody had been
00:31:32 --> 00:31:33 abducted.
00:31:34 --> 00:31:37 um all all of that which we now know is
00:31:37 --> 00:31:39 this phenomenon called paridolia where
00:31:39 --> 00:31:41 we we look at things and say oh that
00:31:41 --> 00:31:42 looks like a bowl of hat or that looks
00:31:42 --> 00:31:44 like a tire humanize everything
00:31:44 --> 00:31:47 rehumanize it yes that that's a great
00:31:47 --> 00:31:50 generator of fake news absolutely great
00:31:50 --> 00:31:54 but what um yeah the the article that
00:31:54 --> 00:31:56 Fenton sent us I had a look at and it's
00:31:56 --> 00:32:00 got a few examples of fake news and has
00:32:00 --> 00:32:02 as someone who worked in the media for
00:32:02 --> 00:32:05 40 years I'm very much aware of how some
00:32:05 --> 00:32:08 journalists operate, not all, but some
00:32:08 --> 00:32:10 don't have the integrity to just stick
00:32:10 --> 00:32:13 with the the facts. They want they want
00:32:13 --> 00:32:16 um clickbait, I think, is the modern
00:32:16 --> 00:32:19 term for it. And the the writer of this
00:32:19 --> 00:32:25 article um very astute um gives examples
00:32:25 --> 00:32:29 of what turned out to be untrue
00:32:29 --> 00:32:32 situations. um citing 2014 astronomers
00:32:32 --> 00:32:33 announced a whopper of a discovery.
00:32:33 --> 00:32:35 Primordial waves from the earliest
00:32:35 --> 00:32:37 moments of the Big Bang. The South Pole
00:32:37 --> 00:32:38 telescope results validated
00:32:38 --> 00:32:40 long-standing but still shaky hypothesis
00:32:40 --> 00:32:43 of cosmic inflation turned out to be.
00:32:43 --> 00:32:46 Yes. Um and there's a couple of stories
00:32:46 --> 00:32:50 like that. Tabby Star in 2015 um with
00:32:50 --> 00:32:53 its strange light pattern um and you
00:32:53 --> 00:32:56 know the popular press latched on to the
00:32:56 --> 00:32:57 possibility that it was surrounded by a
00:32:57 --> 00:33:00 mega structure built by aliens. A Dyson
00:33:00 --> 00:33:02 sphere. That's right. Yeah, it was bust
00:33:02 --> 00:33:05 again. And so it goes on. Uh and they
00:33:06 --> 00:33:07 actually cite the Venus story that we've
00:33:07 --> 00:33:09 talked about a couple of times already,
00:33:09 --> 00:33:11 but um as we said, it was debunked, but
00:33:11 --> 00:33:14 now they're undebunking it. Uh, but it's
00:33:14 --> 00:33:18 still got a big question mark over it.
00:33:18 --> 00:33:20 And I did a bit of research myself,
00:33:20 --> 00:33:22 Fred, to see if I could find any other
00:33:22 --> 00:33:24 stories that popped up that turned out
00:33:24 --> 00:33:27 to be wrong. Uh, 2016, a paper in the
00:33:27 --> 00:33:29 astrophysical journal Letters suggested
00:33:29 --> 00:33:32 that galaxy D4 uh DF44 was highly
00:33:32 --> 00:33:34 unusual, containing an exceptionally
00:33:34 --> 00:33:36 high amount of dark matter, at least
00:33:36 --> 00:33:38 98%.
00:33:38 --> 00:33:41 um they did some uh follow-up studies
00:33:41 --> 00:33:42 and found out that it had a normal
00:33:42 --> 00:33:46 amount of dark matter um because it was
00:33:46 --> 00:33:49 a low mass dwarf galaxy. So yeah, and
00:33:50 --> 00:33:54 and so it goes on. Look, I know that a
00:33:54 --> 00:33:56 lot of the time this sensationalism is
00:33:56 --> 00:33:59 driven by journalists trying to make a
00:33:59 --> 00:34:02 headline and that's that's what it comes
00:34:02 --> 00:34:04 down to. A lot of these papers are
00:34:04 --> 00:34:06 published and and the writer of the
00:34:06 --> 00:34:09 article that Fenton refers to said it
00:34:09 --> 00:34:12 openly. There's a lot of pressure on
00:34:12 --> 00:34:13 scientists and astronomers and
00:34:13 --> 00:34:15 physicists and people in the science
00:34:15 --> 00:34:17 fraternity to get
00:34:17 --> 00:34:20 published. And sometimes they'll push
00:34:20 --> 00:34:23 the boundaries to get that paper out
00:34:23 --> 00:34:25 there and and get the headline. And the
00:34:25 --> 00:34:28 popular press will hone in on we have
00:34:28 --> 00:34:32 found life like like a fly to a flame.
00:34:32 --> 00:34:35 And that's that's really the that is the
00:34:35 --> 00:34:39 problem. But I I'd like to say that most
00:34:39 --> 00:34:41 people are astute enough to read beyond
00:34:41 --> 00:34:44 the opening paragraph and get to the
00:34:44 --> 00:34:45 part where they actually tell you the
00:34:45 --> 00:34:48 truth. Yeah.
00:34:48 --> 00:34:51 Does it be in there somewhere? Yeah.
00:34:51 --> 00:34:52 Yes, that's right. It is. Yeah. It's
00:34:52 --> 00:34:54 nearly always in there somewhere. Yeah.
00:34:54 --> 00:34:56 No, I I I agree with that. So, it sounds
00:34:56 --> 00:34:58 as though Jonty said the same thing as
00:34:58 --> 00:35:00 what I would have said. He did. Yes.
00:35:00 --> 00:35:03 Yes. Um he he was sitting on a
00:35:03 --> 00:35:06 wheelchair with a sign and a
00:35:06 --> 00:35:09 Yes, that's probably what
00:35:09 --> 00:35:11 um kind of looked like him though. Never
00:35:11 --> 00:35:14 mind. Um but yeah, Fenton, you you're
00:35:14 --> 00:35:16 right. Uh it is something uh that
00:35:16 --> 00:35:19 exists. Is it something to worry about?
00:35:19 --> 00:35:20 Oh
00:35:20 --> 00:35:24 gosh, maybe a bit. But I think overall
00:35:24 --> 00:35:26 the science fraternity's got enough
00:35:26 --> 00:35:29 integrity and certainly an abundance of
00:35:29 --> 00:35:32 intelligence to get past it and stick to
00:35:32 --> 00:35:36 the facts. That's that's how I read it.
00:35:36 --> 00:35:38 Um yeah, I think that's pretty well all
00:35:38 --> 00:35:40 we can say about it. What do you reckon,
00:35:40 --> 00:35:43 Fred? Yeah, there's um you know, we
00:35:44 --> 00:35:46 there's an almost endless list of of
00:35:46 --> 00:35:48 things, you
00:35:48 --> 00:35:50 know, the Apollo astronauts never went
00:35:50 --> 00:35:52 to the moon. another piece of fake news,
00:35:52 --> 00:35:56 all of that kind of thing. Uh it's um it
00:35:56 --> 00:35:58 so it sort of borders into conspiracy
00:35:58 --> 00:36:00 theory uh some of the time as well. It
00:36:00 --> 00:36:03 feeds into the same sort of psychology
00:36:03 --> 00:36:06 that lets people believe conspiracies.
00:36:06 --> 00:36:08 Yeah. Yep. Yeah. People are always
00:36:08 --> 00:36:10 looking for something to believe in
00:36:10 --> 00:36:13 and quite often they're easily
00:36:13 --> 00:36:17 duped and that happens and and yes the
00:36:17 --> 00:36:19 media needs to take a long hard look at
00:36:19 --> 00:36:21 itself and to use the Australian
00:36:21 --> 00:36:23 colloquialism give themselves an
00:36:23 --> 00:36:27 uppercut and that might solve it so yeah
00:36:27 --> 00:36:29 if you don't know what introspection
00:36:29 --> 00:36:31 means it's time you took a long hard
00:36:31 --> 00:36:34 look at yourself
00:36:34 --> 00:36:36 sorry I couldn't resist that
00:36:36 --> 00:36:38 all right thank Thank you, Fenton. U
00:36:38 --> 00:36:40 that's a that's a great topic for debate
00:36:40 --> 00:36:41 and I hope we get to talk about it again
00:36:42 --> 00:36:44 because um it won't stop. It just won't
00:36:44 --> 00:36:46 stop. Um
00:36:46 --> 00:36:49 anyway, it's all good. Uh and thanks to
00:36:49 --> 00:36:50 all our contributors. Don't forget to
00:36:50 --> 00:36:52 contribute yourself. If you have
00:36:52 --> 00:36:53 questions for us, send them to us via
00:36:53 --> 00:36:55 our website,
00:36:55 --> 00:36:57 spacenutspodcast.com,
00:36:57 --> 00:37:00 spacenuts.io. Uh a few turn up on
00:37:00 --> 00:37:01 Facebook Messenger and things like that.
00:37:02 --> 00:37:04 Um and when I remember to look, I will I
00:37:04 --> 00:37:06 will dig them up. But, uh, yeah, best to
00:37:06 --> 00:37:08 go through our website. Audio or text.
00:37:08 --> 00:37:10 We'll take them both. Uh, or you can
00:37:10 --> 00:37:12 send us a carrier pigeon if you can find
00:37:12 --> 00:37:16 one that hasn't become extinct. Um, and
00:37:16 --> 00:37:18 that brings us to the end, Fred. Thank
00:37:18 --> 00:37:21 you very much. Great pleasure, Andrew.
00:37:21 --> 00:37:24 And, uh, um, we will do it again soon, I
00:37:24 --> 00:37:26 hope. Yes, maybe next week or the week
00:37:26 --> 00:37:29 after or, you know, something like that
00:37:29 --> 00:37:32 when whenever we can get together. Uh,
00:37:32 --> 00:37:34 Bred Watson, astronomer at large. And
00:37:34 --> 00:37:35 thanks to Hugh in the studio, although
00:37:35 --> 00:37:36 he couldn't be with us today, he was too
00:37:36 --> 00:37:38 busy generating fake news. Got back to
00:37:38 --> 00:37:41 his old career like that. And from me,
00:37:41 --> 00:37:44 Andrew, thanks for your company. See you
00:37:44 --> 00:37:46 on the next episode of Space Nuts.
00:37:46 --> 00:37:49 Bye-bye. Space Nuts. You'll be listening
00:37:49 --> 00:37:52 to the Space Nuts podcast
00:37:52 --> 00:37:55 available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
00:37:55 --> 00:37:58 iHeart Radio, or your favorite podcast
00:37:58 --> 00:38:00 player. You can also stream on demand at
00:38:00 --> 00:38:03 byes.com. This has been another quality
00:38:03 --> 00:38:07 podcast production from sites.com.