Space Nuts Episode 495: The Megastructure Quipu, Exoplanet Myths, and SpaceX Satellites
Join Andrew Dunkley and Professor Jonti Horner in this enlightening episode of Space Nuts, where they explore the cosmos' latest discoveries and debunk popular misconceptions. From the astonishing natural megastructure known as Quipu to the reality behind potentially habitable exoplanets, and the implications of SpaceX satellites re-entering Earth's atmosphere, this episode is packed with fascinating insights that will expand your understanding of our universe.
Episode Highlights:
- The Discovery of Quipu: Andrew and Jonti discuss the recently discovered megastructure, Quipu, which is a colossal natural formation in the universe. They delve into its size, significance, and the implications it has for our understanding of cosmic structures.
- Exoplanet Misconceptions: Jonti shares his frustrations regarding the overselling of exoplanet discoveries and the potential for life. They dissect the media's portrayal of newly found planets and emphasize the complexities involved in determining habitability.
- Asteroid 2024 YR4 Update: The duo provides an update on the asteroid's trajectory and the fluctuating odds of it impacting Earth. They explain how ongoing observations refine our understanding of its orbit and potential risks.
- SpaceX Satellites and Atmospheric Concerns : Andrew and Jonti examine the increasing number of SpaceX satellites re-entering the atmosphere and the environmental implications of this phenomenon. They discuss the balance between technological advancements and potential ecological impacts.
For more Space Nuts, including our continually updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. (https://www.spacenutspodcast.com/about)
Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
00:00 - Introduction to the episode and topics
02:15 - Discussion on the discovery of Quipu and its implications
10:30 - Debunking myths around exoplanets and habitability
18:00 - Update on asteroid 2024 YR4 and its potential impact
26:45 - The environmental impact of SpaceX satellites re-entering
30:00 - Closing thoughts and listener engagement
✍️ Episode References
Quipu Discovery Article
https://www.astronomy.com/news
Exoplanet Research
https://www.nasa.gov/exoplanets
SpaceX Satellite Updates
https://www.spacex.com/launches/
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Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/25588222?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:01 hi there thanks for joining us this is
00:00:01 --> 00:00:03 Space Nuts Andrew Dunley here good to
00:00:03 --> 00:00:06 have your company and on this episode we
00:00:06 --> 00:00:10 have a lot to talk about uh the first
00:00:10 --> 00:00:13 thing will be a mega structure of Epic
00:00:13 --> 00:00:15 Proportions discovered in the universe
00:00:15 --> 00:00:18 now this is not a a something that was
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 manufactured by some incredible race uh
00:00:21 --> 00:00:23 because we have talked about me mega
00:00:23 --> 00:00:24 structures in the past now this is
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 natural and it's called
00:00:27 --> 00:00:29 kipo what's that mean we'll tell you
00:00:29 --> 00:00:32 soon um this is uh one of um the biggest
00:00:32 --> 00:00:34 bug bears that jonty has to deal with
00:00:35 --> 00:00:37 the overselling of the potential for
00:00:37 --> 00:00:39 life on exoplanets yes there is one in
00:00:39 --> 00:00:41 the news at the moment we'll do an
00:00:41 --> 00:00:43 update on 2024
00:00:43 --> 00:00:47 yr4 the odds of it hitting us have hared
00:00:47 --> 00:00:49 and SpaceX satellites raining down on
00:00:50 --> 00:00:52 our atmosphere uh what does that mean
00:00:52 --> 00:00:55 we'll tell you on this episode of Space
00:00:55 --> 00:01:00 Nuts 15 seconds guidance is internal 10
00:01:00 --> 00:01:04 nine ignition sequence start Space Nuts
00:01:04 --> 00:01:10 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 3 Space Nuts as the
00:01:10 --> 00:01:13 report it feels good and he's back again
00:01:13 --> 00:01:15 surprisingly it's Johny Horner professor
00:01:15 --> 00:01:16 of a physics at the University of
00:01:16 --> 00:01:19 Southern Queensland jonty hello good day
00:01:19 --> 00:01:22 how are you going I am well how are you
00:01:22 --> 00:01:23 I'm getting there I've never got the
00:01:23 --> 00:01:25 hang of mornings I think I'm a bit like
00:01:25 --> 00:01:27 um the characters from The Hitchhikers
00:01:27 --> 00:01:29 Guide except for me it's mornings it's
00:01:29 --> 00:01:31 not Mondays it's mornings yes I I used
00:01:31 --> 00:01:34 to be like that and then I started in
00:01:34 --> 00:01:36 breakfast radio and did it for 30 years
00:01:36 --> 00:01:40 so I eventually got used to being up at
00:01:40 --> 00:01:43 sparrows the breakfast shift does not
00:01:43 --> 00:01:46 sound fun uh I enjoyed it but that was
00:01:46 --> 00:01:48 just me I don't know if anyone else did
00:01:48 --> 00:01:51 especially the audience boom
00:01:51 --> 00:01:54 boom all right uh let us get into it and
00:01:54 --> 00:01:57 we're going to start off with this um
00:01:57 --> 00:01:58 discovery of a of a mega structure which
00:01:58 --> 00:02:03 is uh been uh in the news over the last
00:02:03 --> 00:02:07 week or so and it's it's called kipo
00:02:07 --> 00:02:09 we'll explain why it's called that soon
00:02:09 --> 00:02:11 but this is a a mega structure uh of
00:02:11 --> 00:02:14 natural formation in the universe the
00:02:14 --> 00:02:18 enormity of this is mind splitting
00:02:18 --> 00:02:21 amazing yes yes it is it's one of those
00:02:21 --> 00:02:22 things that just makes your head hurt
00:02:22 --> 00:02:24 like a lot of things in cosmology now
00:02:24 --> 00:02:27 I'll happily hold my hands up right at
00:02:27 --> 00:02:28 the start and say my expertise is on the
00:02:28 --> 00:02:30 parts of the University what closer than
00:02:30 --> 00:02:33 this so I'm not a cosmologist and if
00:02:33 --> 00:02:34 there are cosmologists listening you
00:02:34 --> 00:02:36 know people who are cosmology
00:02:36 --> 00:02:38 enthusiasts I might get something wrong
00:02:38 --> 00:02:41 please don't be too critical um because
00:02:41 --> 00:02:43 you know the the size of the things that
00:02:43 --> 00:02:45 I don't know in cosmology is enormous um
00:02:45 --> 00:02:48 just like the subject itself but this is
00:02:48 --> 00:02:50 a really interesting one when we think
00:02:50 --> 00:02:53 about the universe you see all these
00:02:53 --> 00:02:55 wonderful simulations that come out of
00:02:55 --> 00:02:57 our models of how the universe works
00:02:57 --> 00:03:00 that people produce all the time and you
00:03:00 --> 00:03:02 know you can almost see videos on
00:03:02 --> 00:03:04 fabulous documentary Series where they
00:03:04 --> 00:03:05 start at the scale of an atom and keep
00:03:05 --> 00:03:07 zooming out and you eventually get to
00:03:07 --> 00:03:09 the person and keep zooming out and the
00:03:10 --> 00:03:13 scale of cosmology is roughly the same
00:03:13 --> 00:03:15 scale compared to a human being that a
00:03:15 --> 00:03:17 human being is compared to an atom so
00:03:17 --> 00:03:18 that's the kind of size scale we're
00:03:18 --> 00:03:21 talking about here which is the study of
00:03:21 --> 00:03:23 the ridiculously big but as you zoom out
00:03:23 --> 00:03:25 from that human being on the earth you
00:03:25 --> 00:03:27 get the solar system then you get the
00:03:27 --> 00:03:29 local stars then you get our galaxy and
00:03:29 --> 00:03:32 then as move out you get structures of
00:03:32 --> 00:03:34 galaxies together so you get small
00:03:34 --> 00:03:36 clusters of galaxies and those small
00:03:36 --> 00:03:37 clusters hang together in bigger
00:03:37 --> 00:03:40 clusters that gather together in super
00:03:40 --> 00:03:42 clusters and they for a long time were
00:03:42 --> 00:03:44 kind of the biggest structures we saw in
00:03:44 --> 00:03:46 the universe but then as you zoom out
00:03:46 --> 00:03:48 further you start seeing these
00:03:48 --> 00:03:51 structures like walls and filaments
00:03:51 --> 00:03:53 where those clusters and super clusters
00:03:53 --> 00:03:55 of galaxies are themselves forming
00:03:55 --> 00:03:58 structures with huge voids in between so
00:03:58 --> 00:04:00 on this kind of scale when you see those
00:04:00 --> 00:04:02 simulations it looks almost like a view
00:04:02 --> 00:04:05 of a sponge so you if you've had a a
00:04:05 --> 00:04:08 sponge in your bath the sponge is a lot
00:04:09 --> 00:04:12 of open air spaces surrounded by lots of
00:04:12 --> 00:04:13 solid material and all the solid
00:04:13 --> 00:04:15 material is in contact with all the
00:04:15 --> 00:04:17 solid material but all the air is in
00:04:17 --> 00:04:18 contact with all the air so you could
00:04:18 --> 00:04:20 put a bit of string and go all the way
00:04:20 --> 00:04:21 through the sponge through the air holes
00:04:21 --> 00:04:24 and come out the other side and that's
00:04:24 --> 00:04:26 kind of what this view of the universe
00:04:26 --> 00:04:28 looks like it these long filaments and
00:04:28 --> 00:04:31 walls all connected to one another with
00:04:31 --> 00:04:33 these enormous voids of empty space
00:04:33 --> 00:04:35 between them that's the context we're
00:04:35 --> 00:04:37 talking about here so the team of
00:04:37 --> 00:04:39 researchers who studied this have been
00:04:39 --> 00:04:42 carrying out observations using an x-ray
00:04:42 --> 00:04:44 survey looking at very high energy
00:04:44 --> 00:04:46 electromagnetic radiation that's
00:04:46 --> 00:04:48 produced from incredibly hot gas in the
00:04:48 --> 00:04:50 most massive clusters of galaxies
00:04:51 --> 00:04:53 enormous structures themselves and
00:04:53 --> 00:04:56 they've looked at a region about 250
00:04:56 --> 00:04:59 million Parx across in all directions
00:04:59 --> 00:05:00 maybe a bit
00:05:00 --> 00:05:02 more looking for the biggest structures
00:05:03 --> 00:05:05 they can find in that region and they've
00:05:05 --> 00:05:07 identified four of these what they're
00:05:07 --> 00:05:09 calling super structures and they super
00:05:09 --> 00:05:11 structures are Mega structures because
00:05:11 --> 00:05:13 they are bigger than normal structures
00:05:13 --> 00:05:14 they structures made of structures made
00:05:14 --> 00:05:16 of superclusters made of clusters made
00:05:16 --> 00:05:19 of local clusters made of galaxies on we
00:05:19 --> 00:05:23 go all the way down again now these four
00:05:23 --> 00:05:26 structures that they found between them
00:05:26 --> 00:05:29 contain 45% of all the Galaxy clusters
00:05:29 --> 00:05:31 they could see 30% of all the galaxies
00:05:31 --> 00:05:34 and 25% of all the matter but they only
00:05:34 --> 00:05:36 occupy about 133% of the volume so that
00:05:37 --> 00:05:39 gives you the idea of lots of empty
00:05:39 --> 00:05:42 space with these filaments around it the
00:05:42 --> 00:05:44 biggest of these this is someone Keo
00:05:44 --> 00:05:47 that's getting all the attention it's
00:05:47 --> 00:05:50 ridiculous they talk about it being 200
00:05:50 --> 00:05:53 quadrillion times the mass of the Sun so
00:05:53 --> 00:05:56 if you remember fistas in countries that
00:05:56 --> 00:05:58 do things differently we using the kind
00:05:58 --> 00:06:00 of British scale Mill million billion
00:06:00 --> 00:06:03 system here so a million is 10 to the 6
00:06:03 --> 00:06:05 one with 6 zeros after it a billion is a
00:06:05 --> 00:06:08 th million so that's 10 to the N9 a
00:06:08 --> 00:06:11 trillion is a, billion or a million
00:06:11 --> 00:06:15 million that's 10 the 12 a quadrillion
00:06:15 --> 00:06:17 is a, trillion or a million billion or a
00:06:18 --> 00:06:21 billion million so it's 10 to the 15 200
00:06:21 --> 00:06:24 of those means this is 2 * 10 to the 17
00:06:24 --> 00:06:28 or two with 17 zeros after it times the
00:06:28 --> 00:06:30 mass of the Sun now that's a number that
00:06:30 --> 00:06:32 is bound to make your head hurt so I
00:06:32 --> 00:06:34 converted that down by looking at how
00:06:34 --> 00:06:37 many milky wees that would be and that
00:06:37 --> 00:06:38 be something like
00:06:38 --> 00:06:41 130 times the mass of our
00:06:41 --> 00:06:45 galaxy so stupidly big numbers it is
00:06:45 --> 00:06:47 spread over a distance it's a big long
00:06:47 --> 00:06:51 feature about 400 MEAP parex long so one
00:06:51 --> 00:06:56 Parc is perversely the distance that an
00:06:56 --> 00:06:59 object would be away from the Earth if
00:06:59 --> 00:07:02 it's Parallax as the earth goes around
00:07:02 --> 00:07:04 the Sun was 1 out second it's a really
00:07:04 --> 00:07:07 obscure unit of measurement it makes
00:07:07 --> 00:07:09 sense when you're doing the maths of
00:07:09 --> 00:07:10 measuring distance but it's not
00:07:10 --> 00:07:12 particularly user friendly it's a bit
00:07:12 --> 00:07:15 like talking in feet light years is a
00:07:15 --> 00:07:16 bit like talking in meters same kind of
00:07:17 --> 00:07:18 thing most people find light years more
00:07:18 --> 00:07:21 straightforward to visualize where one
00:07:21 --> 00:07:22 lightyear is the time it takes light to
00:07:22 --> 00:07:26 travel in one year and there are 3.26
00:07:26 --> 00:07:29 light years in one Parc so 400 megga
00:07:30 --> 00:07:34 passet is 1.3 billion light years long
00:07:34 --> 00:07:36 so in other words light leaving one end
00:07:36 --> 00:07:39 of this structure would take 1.3 billion
00:07:39 --> 00:07:42 years or 1 million years to go from
00:07:42 --> 00:07:45 one end to the other so it's an enormous
00:07:45 --> 00:07:46 enormous
00:07:46 --> 00:07:48 structure now that's all well and good
00:07:48 --> 00:07:50 and it's fabulous cataloging the biggest
00:07:50 --> 00:07:51 and the most massive and the brightest
00:07:51 --> 00:07:53 and I know a lot of people I do this
00:07:53 --> 00:07:55 occasionally look up Wikipedia articles
00:07:55 --> 00:07:57 like what's a as massive star what's a
00:07:57 --> 00:07:59 as luminous star things like that yeah
00:07:59 --> 00:08:01 but it's also really valuable to know
00:08:01 --> 00:08:03 this kind of stuff because if you study
00:08:03 --> 00:08:05 these big structures that gives us
00:08:05 --> 00:08:07 information that we can compare to the
00:08:07 --> 00:08:09 models that are based on our current
00:08:09 --> 00:08:11 understanding of the universe to see if
00:08:11 --> 00:08:14 those models make sense and the good
00:08:14 --> 00:08:16 thing is that the current models of how
00:08:16 --> 00:08:18 the universe work predict structures
00:08:18 --> 00:08:20 like this so this is very much in line
00:08:20 --> 00:08:23 with what people expected to see and
00:08:23 --> 00:08:24 that's a really good part of how science
00:08:24 --> 00:08:27 works you know it's very much Cas of our
00:08:27 --> 00:08:28 models predicted this and now you've
00:08:29 --> 00:08:30 seen it that makes us happy because it
00:08:30 --> 00:08:33 means the models are working correctly
00:08:33 --> 00:08:35 it also is the kind of information
00:08:35 --> 00:08:37 that's really useful for people studying
00:08:37 --> 00:08:39 the big bang and more ancient Universe
00:08:39 --> 00:08:41 because structures like this are
00:08:41 --> 00:08:43 sufficiently massive that they will
00:08:43 --> 00:08:45 influence our view of what is beyond you
00:08:45 --> 00:08:47 get gravitational lensing from the big
00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 objects you also even get and I don't
00:08:50 --> 00:08:52 fully understand how this works but you
00:08:52 --> 00:08:54 also get the pollution of the cosmic
00:08:55 --> 00:08:57 microwave background which is the last
00:08:57 --> 00:09:00 hit of the Big Bang it's the it's our
00:09:00 --> 00:09:03 image of the last surface 300 years
00:09:03 --> 00:09:04 after the big bang where the universe
00:09:04 --> 00:09:05 became
00:09:05 --> 00:09:08 transparent and we found little bits of
00:09:08 --> 00:09:10 structure in that which are important
00:09:10 --> 00:09:12 for us understanding how the modern
00:09:12 --> 00:09:14 structure of the universe formed but
00:09:14 --> 00:09:17 that structure is polluted by the
00:09:17 --> 00:09:18 influence of these
00:09:18 --> 00:09:20 foreground objects by something called
00:09:20 --> 00:09:23 the integrated sax wolf effect I've no
00:09:23 --> 00:09:25 idea how that works to be brutally
00:09:25 --> 00:09:28 honest but if you've got something like
00:09:28 --> 00:09:31 that that pollutes view of what's beyond
00:09:31 --> 00:09:33 and we want to understand what's beyond
00:09:33 --> 00:09:35 the better we can see the foreground the
00:09:35 --> 00:09:36 better we can account for it when we're
00:09:36 --> 00:09:38 subing the background so getting studies
00:09:38 --> 00:09:41 of this a it's fascinating it's a really
00:09:41 --> 00:09:43 good test for our models but it also
00:09:43 --> 00:09:46 allows us in the future to get a better
00:09:46 --> 00:09:48 handle on how things like the cosmic
00:09:48 --> 00:09:50 microwave background really look when
00:09:50 --> 00:09:53 you filter out the foreground mess and I
00:09:53 --> 00:09:54 guess the equivalent here would be like
00:09:54 --> 00:09:56 having a light pollution filter for
00:09:56 --> 00:09:58 people who are astronomy photography
00:09:58 --> 00:10:01 enesi gas you've got a murky light
00:10:01 --> 00:10:02 polluted sky but if you put a light
00:10:02 --> 00:10:03 pollution filter on the front of your
00:10:04 --> 00:10:06 lens you can cancel out that foreground
00:10:06 --> 00:10:07 mess and get a much better view of
00:10:07 --> 00:10:10 what's beyond this will enable us to do
00:10:10 --> 00:10:12 that same kind of filtering when we're
00:10:12 --> 00:10:14 looking at the microwave background so I
00:10:14 --> 00:10:16 think it's a fabulous Story full of
00:10:16 --> 00:10:20 numbers what make your head hurt quite
00:10:20 --> 00:10:22 they're massive numbers they just uh
00:10:22 --> 00:10:24 just incredible
00:10:24 --> 00:10:26 now why is it called
00:10:26 --> 00:10:29 Keo this is partially because of the
00:10:29 --> 00:10:31 structure so it looks like a long thick
00:10:31 --> 00:10:32 filament with thinner filaments
00:10:32 --> 00:10:35 branching off the sides of it and the
00:10:35 --> 00:10:37 authors of this paper notice that this
00:10:37 --> 00:10:40 looks very similar to the traditional
00:10:40 --> 00:10:41 counting instrument of the Incan people
00:10:42 --> 00:10:44 in Peru um which was essentially they
00:10:44 --> 00:10:47 did their counting using knotted ropes
00:10:47 --> 00:10:48 and that knotted rope counting device
00:10:48 --> 00:10:51 was a Keo so it's quite a nice nod to
00:10:51 --> 00:10:53 the traditional culture of the that area
00:10:53 --> 00:10:56 in Peru again I'm not an anthropologist
00:10:56 --> 00:10:58 or an archaeologist I don't really know
00:10:58 --> 00:11:00 much more about it than that but I think
00:11:00 --> 00:11:02 it is a really nice nod to a different
00:11:02 --> 00:11:04 culture and as we've talked about in
00:11:04 --> 00:11:06 previous weeks this idea of embracing
00:11:06 --> 00:11:08 all the cultures of the Earth in our
00:11:08 --> 00:11:09 studies going forward it's really
00:11:10 --> 00:11:11 gaining traction is a really nice way of
00:11:11 --> 00:11:14 doing things I think absolutely yes I'd
00:11:14 --> 00:11:17 agree and the the Incans have a um
00:11:17 --> 00:11:21 strong history with astronomy so uh that
00:11:21 --> 00:11:24 ties in well too so yeah fascinating uh
00:11:24 --> 00:11:26 if you would like to chase up that story
00:11:26 --> 00:11:28 it was published in astronomy and
00:11:28 --> 00:11:30 astrophysics the journal you can also
00:11:30 --> 00:11:34 read about it at the archive.org website
00:11:34 --> 00:11:38 that's arxiv I learned that last week
00:11:38 --> 00:11:39 archive.org
00:11:39 --> 00:11:43 uh yes there was some um a lot of
00:11:43 --> 00:11:45 involvement from the max plank Institute
00:11:45 --> 00:11:49 in um in running this the author was H
00:11:49 --> 00:11:51 boringer so uh you might want to look
00:11:51 --> 00:11:55 that
00:11:55 --> 00:11:59 up Space Nuts uh now uh let's move on on
00:11:59 --> 00:12:02 to our next story this is a pet peeve
00:12:02 --> 00:12:05 story um which Johny wanted to talk
00:12:05 --> 00:12:07 about and look I'm not surprised that it
00:12:07 --> 00:12:11 uh it bothers some people uh because I I
00:12:11 --> 00:12:14 have often referred to the popular press
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16 when doing this podcast and how they
00:12:16 --> 00:12:19 latch onto something that isn't quite
00:12:19 --> 00:12:21 the story but it makes a great headline
00:12:21 --> 00:12:24 and that's what this is overselling the
00:12:24 --> 00:12:26 potential for life on
00:12:26 --> 00:12:28 exoplanets yeah it's and one in
00:12:28 --> 00:12:30 particular in the news at the moment
00:12:30 --> 00:12:31 well it's something that's niggled at me
00:12:31 --> 00:12:33 for a while it should be said that the
00:12:33 --> 00:12:35 criticism here is not of the research
00:12:35 --> 00:12:36 done by these authors have done a
00:12:36 --> 00:12:37 fabulous bit of research and if you look
00:12:37 --> 00:12:40 at the paper they've got the balance
00:12:40 --> 00:12:43 right that's fine but there is a very
00:12:43 --> 00:12:44 common Trend particularly among press
00:12:45 --> 00:12:48 officers at universities and also around
00:12:48 --> 00:12:50 a lot of media sites that rely on clicks
00:12:50 --> 00:12:54 for their income to talk about the most
00:12:54 --> 00:12:56 habitable planet ever discovered we
00:12:56 --> 00:12:58 found the most earthlike planet ever and
00:12:58 --> 00:13:00 the report on this planet are not quite
00:13:00 --> 00:13:01 that bad but they have been talking
00:13:01 --> 00:13:03 about potentially habitable planet
00:13:04 --> 00:13:06 discovered around nearby star because
00:13:06 --> 00:13:08 that gets a clicks and before we dig
00:13:08 --> 00:13:10 into this story the reason that this
00:13:10 --> 00:13:12 niggles at me is that people are getting
00:13:12 --> 00:13:15 ex exoe fatigue and also lifei SAR
00:13:15 --> 00:13:19 fatigue so by reporting things when we
00:13:19 --> 00:13:20 haven't actually found what the reports
00:13:20 --> 00:13:22 are saying it creates this opinion that
00:13:22 --> 00:13:24 the science is already done we've
00:13:24 --> 00:13:26 already discovered the a stuff so when
00:13:26 --> 00:13:28 we finally find a planet that really
00:13:28 --> 00:13:30 does have life on it or when we finally
00:13:30 --> 00:13:32 find a planet that genuinely is Earth
00:13:33 --> 00:13:35 2.0 that'll be exciting I'll be thrilled
00:13:35 --> 00:13:36 we've finally got something to talk
00:13:36 --> 00:13:38 about and everybody will be kind of the
00:13:38 --> 00:13:39 boy who cried wolf well you've told us
00:13:39 --> 00:13:41 you've done this a million times already
00:13:41 --> 00:13:43 yeah and it's easy why are you
00:13:43 --> 00:13:46 interested you know it's
00:13:46 --> 00:13:49 also the fact that we basically don't
00:13:49 --> 00:13:50 know enough to make these statements yet
00:13:51 --> 00:13:53 so when you see a headline like we found
00:13:53 --> 00:13:55 the most earthlike planet ever what it's
00:13:55 --> 00:13:57 actually telling you is we found a
00:13:57 --> 00:13:59 planet that's about the same diameter as
00:13:59 --> 00:14:02 the Earth and that's it so it's like me
00:14:02 --> 00:14:04 being an alien and visiting the Earth
00:14:04 --> 00:14:06 and scanning the oceans and saying I
00:14:06 --> 00:14:07 found the most humanlike creature ever
00:14:07 --> 00:14:09 it's about the same length and it's
00:14:09 --> 00:14:10 about the same weight and it's about the
00:14:10 --> 00:14:13 same size it's called a dolphin it's
00:14:13 --> 00:14:15 nothing like a human whatsoever but it's
00:14:15 --> 00:14:17 about the same size and about the same
00:14:17 --> 00:14:20 mass so it's the most humanlike animal
00:14:20 --> 00:14:22 ever so I get a bit grumpy and there's a
00:14:22 --> 00:14:24 lot that goes inh habitability that I
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26 can talk about a little bit later on
00:14:26 --> 00:14:28 which is why I think this is a much more
00:14:28 --> 00:14:30 complex problem and that for me that
00:14:30 --> 00:14:31 makes it much more interesting a lot
00:14:31 --> 00:14:33 more research to do but it does mean
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35 that when you get a claim saying
00:14:35 --> 00:14:37 potentially habitable planet or the most
00:14:37 --> 00:14:39 habitable planet we've ever found yet
00:14:39 --> 00:14:41 people even publishing articles about
00:14:41 --> 00:14:42 super habitable planets that are more
00:14:42 --> 00:14:44 suitable for life than Earth I don't
00:14:44 --> 00:14:47 think you can say any of that aha in
00:14:47 --> 00:14:49 this particular case it is an
00:14:49 --> 00:14:51 interesting story there is a star called
00:14:51 --> 00:14:54 82 udani which also goes by the name
00:14:54 --> 00:14:58 hd20 794 you know astronomers love our
00:14:58 --> 00:15:00 acronyms in our bar curs this is a star
00:15:00 --> 00:15:02 that you can see with an AK in the
00:15:02 --> 00:15:03 constellation of aridus but it's not
00:15:03 --> 00:15:05 particularly bright it's about magnitude
00:15:05 --> 00:15:08 4 4 and a half and for a while we've
00:15:08 --> 00:15:10 known it had two planets around it but
00:15:10 --> 00:15:12 it's been monitored by the high accuracy
00:15:12 --> 00:15:14 radial velocity Planet Searcher
00:15:14 --> 00:15:17 spectrograph Harps in chil and harps is
00:15:17 --> 00:15:19 an incredible
00:15:19 --> 00:15:21 instrument it allows you to measure the
00:15:21 --> 00:15:24 velocity of a star so you take the light
00:15:24 --> 00:15:26 from a star you break it up into its
00:15:26 --> 00:15:28 component colors and La across that
00:15:28 --> 00:15:31 Spectrum is a series of dark lines and
00:15:31 --> 00:15:32 those dark lines which we call the
00:15:32 --> 00:15:35 fronhofer absorption lines are the
00:15:35 --> 00:15:37 fingerprint of all the different atoms
00:15:37 --> 00:15:38 and molecules in the Stars outer
00:15:38 --> 00:15:41 atmosphere every Atomic species every
00:15:41 --> 00:15:43 molecular species absorbs like a very
00:15:43 --> 00:15:45 specific unique set of wave lengths and
00:15:45 --> 00:15:47 it imprints this dark set of lines
00:15:47 --> 00:15:50 across the star Spectrum now if the
00:15:50 --> 00:15:52 stars moving towards us its light will
00:15:52 --> 00:15:54 be blue shifted so all of those lines
00:15:54 --> 00:15:55 will move a little bit to the blue
00:15:55 --> 00:15:57 because of the dopper effect if it's
00:15:57 --> 00:15:59 moving away from us the light will be
00:15:59 --> 00:16:00 red shifted so it'll move a bit to the
00:16:00 --> 00:16:03 red again with a Doppler effect and I've
00:16:03 --> 00:16:04 talked about this before this is the
00:16:04 --> 00:16:06 equivalent of having the tyum coming
00:16:06 --> 00:16:08 towards you and hearing it high pitched
00:16:08 --> 00:16:11 and fast with n no and then it moving
00:16:11 --> 00:16:13 away and you're hearing it low pitched
00:16:13 --> 00:16:16 and slow with n noo to do with the waves
00:16:16 --> 00:16:19 getting stretched or compressed
00:16:19 --> 00:16:21 essentially now what that means is if we
00:16:21 --> 00:16:22 measure the positiony of these lines
00:16:22 --> 00:16:24 accurately enough we can measure the
00:16:24 --> 00:16:26 change in the speed of the Star as it
00:16:26 --> 00:16:29 moves around by seeing those lines move
00:16:29 --> 00:16:30 so we can look at stars and see them
00:16:30 --> 00:16:32 wobbling and INF further presence of
00:16:32 --> 00:16:34 planets that we can't see by how those
00:16:34 --> 00:16:37 planets pull those Stars around but
00:16:37 --> 00:16:38 there are limits to this there's a lot
00:16:38 --> 00:16:41 of challenges involved so facility like
00:16:41 --> 00:16:42 the one we've got at the University of
00:16:42 --> 00:16:44 Southern Queensland which is actually
00:16:44 --> 00:16:46 the southern hemisphere's only dedicated
00:16:46 --> 00:16:49 EXO Planet search facility we can get an
00:16:49 --> 00:16:51 accuracy where we can measure the wobble
00:16:51 --> 00:16:54 of stars down to about 2 or 3 m a second
00:16:54 --> 00:16:57 so we could see a star changing in speed
00:16:57 --> 00:16:59 by about as much as someone going a very
00:16:59 --> 00:17:00 gentle
00:17:00 --> 00:17:03 job what that means is we could not find
00:17:03 --> 00:17:04 these particular planets they're just
00:17:04 --> 00:17:07 much too hard but the harp spectrograph
00:17:07 --> 00:17:10 is on a much bigger telescope in a much
00:17:10 --> 00:17:12 better location and it's an incredibly
00:17:12 --> 00:17:15 accurate piece of Kit so it lets you get
00:17:15 --> 00:17:18 down to submeter per second measurements
00:17:18 --> 00:17:20 which is breathtaking put that in
00:17:20 --> 00:17:22 perspective we're looking at stars here
00:17:22 --> 00:17:24 whose distances are quadrillions of
00:17:24 --> 00:17:26 kilometers away again using the units
00:17:26 --> 00:17:28 from before these are stars where the
00:17:29 --> 00:17:32 light has taken decades to reach us and
00:17:32 --> 00:17:34 we are able to measure their velocity so
00:17:34 --> 00:17:36 accurately that we can see changes in
00:17:36 --> 00:17:40 that velocity of 50 cm a second wow
00:17:40 --> 00:17:41 that's just astonishing
00:17:41 --> 00:17:43 precision and that's what the team have
00:17:43 --> 00:17:47 done so they've observed this uh HD
00:17:47 --> 00:17:50 20794 for a number of years with haps
00:17:50 --> 00:17:52 getting more and more Data Tracking how
00:17:52 --> 00:17:54 the speed changes and in the past they'd
00:17:54 --> 00:17:56 found two planets in hints of a third
00:17:56 --> 00:17:59 and they've now confirmed that third one
00:17:59 --> 00:18:03 that third planet HD 20794 D is making
00:18:03 --> 00:18:05 the sty wobble with its speed changing
00:18:05 --> 00:18:09 by just 50 cm a second plus or minus
00:18:09 --> 00:18:12 over a period of about 700 days so
00:18:12 --> 00:18:14 you're watching for 700 days you get rid
00:18:14 --> 00:18:16 of all the other noise the star wobbling
00:18:16 --> 00:18:19 around itself just ulating like a shook
00:18:19 --> 00:18:21 Bell you get rid of the orbits of the
00:18:21 --> 00:18:23 two inner planets which are causing it
00:18:23 --> 00:18:24 to wobble by a similar amount with a
00:18:24 --> 00:18:26 different period on your left with a
00:18:27 --> 00:18:29 tiny wobble of plus orus 50 CM a second
00:18:29 --> 00:18:32 that takes 700 be to complete once and
00:18:32 --> 00:18:34 that's what they found so this is our
00:18:34 --> 00:18:37 planet it's a planet about 6 times the
00:18:37 --> 00:18:39 mass of the Earth at least might be more
00:18:40 --> 00:18:41 than that so we don't know how Edge on
00:18:41 --> 00:18:43 or Tilted the orbit is because we're not
00:18:43 --> 00:18:47 seeing it Transit if it's tilted by 30°
00:18:47 --> 00:18:48 the mass of this planet will be higher
00:18:48 --> 00:18:50 if it's tilted by 60° instead of being
00:18:51 --> 00:18:52 six Earth masses it'll be 12 Earth
00:18:52 --> 00:18:55 masses so this is the minimum
00:18:55 --> 00:18:58 Mass so it's what we call a super Earth
00:18:58 --> 00:19:01 or a inun it's much more massive than
00:19:01 --> 00:19:03 our planet and certainly larger than our
00:19:03 --> 00:19:07 planet it's moving on an orbit that if
00:19:07 --> 00:19:10 you calculated its semi- major axis the
00:19:10 --> 00:19:12 length of the ellipse half the length of
00:19:12 --> 00:19:14 the ellipse which sets a period that
00:19:14 --> 00:19:17 will put it in the habitable zone that's
00:19:17 --> 00:19:19 what the paper says now the habitable
00:19:19 --> 00:19:21 zone I'll get into in a second but this
00:19:21 --> 00:19:24 planet moves on a very elongated orbit
00:19:24 --> 00:19:26 so its distance from its Stars changing
00:19:26 --> 00:19:28 by a factor of two from its closest to
00:19:28 --> 00:19:30 the star to the furthest away now if you
00:19:30 --> 00:19:32 scale that up to the solar system and
00:19:32 --> 00:19:33 put it in the same place
00:19:33 --> 00:19:35 temperature-wise as it is in its system
00:19:35 --> 00:19:37 now if you put it in the solar system so
00:19:37 --> 00:19:39 that its orbit had that same temperature
00:19:39 --> 00:19:41 range that would mean when it's closest
00:19:41 --> 00:19:44 to its star it's as close as Venus when
00:19:44 --> 00:19:45 it's furthest from its star it's further
00:19:45 --> 00:19:49 out than mes you're going to have
00:19:49 --> 00:19:51 extreme extreme temperature variability
00:19:51 --> 00:19:55 on this planet now the habitable zone is
00:19:55 --> 00:19:56 always thrown out for these planets it's
00:19:57 --> 00:19:58 that goldilox IDE here if you have a
00:19:58 --> 00:20:00 Planet that's at the right distance from
00:20:00 --> 00:20:02 the Star the temperature will be not too
00:20:02 --> 00:20:04 hot and not too cold and it'll be just
00:20:04 --> 00:20:06 right for liquid water on the
00:20:06 --> 00:20:09 surface the Supple implication buried in
00:20:09 --> 00:20:12 this is not actually what I just said
00:20:12 --> 00:20:14 but it's rather if you took the Earth as
00:20:14 --> 00:20:17 the Earth is today and dropped it where
00:20:17 --> 00:20:19 this planet is would the Earth still
00:20:19 --> 00:20:22 have liquid water on its surface now
00:20:22 --> 00:20:24 that's a subtle difference but to
00:20:24 --> 00:20:25 illustrate it if you think about the
00:20:25 --> 00:20:28 solar system the boundaries of the
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30 habitable are usually set by looking at
00:20:30 --> 00:20:32 Venus and Mars that's what's motivated
00:20:32 --> 00:20:34 this the calculations are more robust
00:20:34 --> 00:20:36 now but that's about where it washes out
00:20:36 --> 00:20:38 Venus closer to the Sun than o is super
00:20:38 --> 00:20:41 hot 450° Centigrade on the surface and
00:20:41 --> 00:20:44 clearly not habitable Mars is super cold
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46 it's too cold for life it's outside the
00:20:46 --> 00:20:47 habitable zone the Earth's in the middle
00:20:47 --> 00:20:50 and it's just right but to illustrate
00:20:50 --> 00:20:52 why it's not so simple imagine a thought
00:20:52 --> 00:20:54 experiment where you swap Venus and Mars
00:20:54 --> 00:20:56 around if you put Mars where Venus is
00:20:56 --> 00:20:59 it's got a thinner atmosphere than we do
00:20:59 --> 00:21:01 so it's got less of a greenhouse effect
00:21:01 --> 00:21:03 so it would probably remain Clement
00:21:03 --> 00:21:06 where Venus would overheat similarly if
00:21:06 --> 00:21:07 you put Venus where Mars is Venus has
00:21:08 --> 00:21:10 this incredibly thick atmosphere with an
00:21:10 --> 00:21:12 incredibly strong Greenhouse it will
00:21:12 --> 00:21:14 probably still be habitable it would
00:21:14 --> 00:21:16 still be warm enough where Mars wouldn't
00:21:16 --> 00:21:18 so this habitable zone is a much wooler
00:21:19 --> 00:21:22 concept than I think most people realize
00:21:22 --> 00:21:25 and it's just not really a guideline
00:21:25 --> 00:21:27 it's just an indication that this could
00:21:27 --> 00:21:28 be somewhere worth looking at it's not
00:21:28 --> 00:21:30 more than that but it tends to get
00:21:30 --> 00:21:32 played up as being the Holy Grail a
00:21:33 --> 00:21:35 planet is in the habitable zone it must
00:21:35 --> 00:21:36 therefore have the potential to be
00:21:36 --> 00:21:38 habitable whereas in fact what you're
00:21:38 --> 00:21:40 saying is if you put the Earth on the
00:21:40 --> 00:21:42 orbit that this planet is on it might
00:21:42 --> 00:21:44 still look like the earth except with
00:21:44 --> 00:21:45 the planet we're talking about at the
00:21:45 --> 00:21:47 minute if you put the Earth on that
00:21:47 --> 00:21:50 orbit at per helium when it was closest
00:21:50 --> 00:21:53 to the Sun it would receive a flots from
00:21:53 --> 00:21:54 the Sun as high as Venus does so the
00:21:54 --> 00:21:57 oceans would start to boil fortunately
00:21:57 --> 00:21:59 it doesn't spend long at peral
00:21:59 --> 00:22:00 we move quickest when we're closest to
00:22:00 --> 00:22:02 the object we swing out through the
00:22:02 --> 00:22:05 habitable zone probably everything's
00:22:05 --> 00:22:06 fine but you've got Bonkers weather
00:22:06 --> 00:22:07 because you're dealing with all that
00:22:07 --> 00:22:09 heat you've just been given then you get
00:22:09 --> 00:22:11 to your furthest point from the Star and
00:22:11 --> 00:22:13 that's when you move the slowest so this
00:22:13 --> 00:22:15 planet spends probably more than 50% of
00:22:16 --> 00:22:18 its time further from its star than the
00:22:18 --> 00:22:20 outer edge of that habitable zone by
00:22:20 --> 00:22:22 calculation so those oceans will freeze
00:22:22 --> 00:22:24 and you get this deep game of thron
00:22:24 --> 00:22:26 style winter you'd have everybody going
00:22:26 --> 00:22:28 oh look winter is coming everybody
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 doomed and then it would swing back into
00:22:30 --> 00:22:32 the star and have a brief furnace like
00:22:32 --> 00:22:35 summer and then a long cold winter again
00:22:35 --> 00:22:37 it doesn't sound particularly Clement
00:22:37 --> 00:22:38 you add to that though the fact that
00:22:38 --> 00:22:40 this planet is six times the mass of the
00:22:40 --> 00:22:42 Earth means it's going to have a very
00:22:43 --> 00:22:44 substantial atmosphere and I should say
00:22:44 --> 00:22:46 at least six times the MTH of the earth
00:22:46 --> 00:22:48 a much thicker atmosphere means a much
00:22:48 --> 00:22:51 stronger greenhouse effect which means
00:22:51 --> 00:22:53 the results of that extreme insulation
00:22:53 --> 00:22:56 the extreme radiation at pericenter when
00:22:56 --> 00:22:58 it's closest to the star is even more
00:22:58 --> 00:23:00 pronounced so I don't think it's at all
00:23:00 --> 00:23:02 fair to say that this planet could be
00:23:02 --> 00:23:04 potentially habitable and in fact the
00:23:04 --> 00:23:06 authors of the paper themselves don't
00:23:06 --> 00:23:08 really say that what they do say is that
00:23:08 --> 00:23:10 this planet crosses the habitable zone
00:23:10 --> 00:23:12 and because it's a bit bigger and
00:23:12 --> 00:23:14 because it has this big variation it
00:23:14 --> 00:23:16 assistance from the Star and because
00:23:16 --> 00:23:18 it's around a nearby star could be a
00:23:18 --> 00:23:20 really good test case for us to practice
00:23:20 --> 00:23:22 our observation techniques to learn more
00:23:22 --> 00:23:25 about atmospheres of planets this size
00:23:25 --> 00:23:27 before we really look at ones that could
00:23:27 --> 00:23:29 be habitable and Earth like
00:23:29 --> 00:23:31 but this planet certainly isn't it and
00:23:31 --> 00:23:33 even then there's a whole heap of other
00:23:33 --> 00:23:34 things that will impact habitability
00:23:34 --> 00:23:36 which we may or may not have time to go
00:23:36 --> 00:23:39 into today but the habitable zone really
00:23:39 --> 00:23:42 is just the first of an incredibly long
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44 list of variables that you can slide
00:23:44 --> 00:23:45 around that could influence their
00:23:46 --> 00:23:48 habitability so all it's saying is how
00:23:48 --> 00:23:49 hot would the Earth be if you put it
00:23:49 --> 00:23:52 there essentially yeah yeah and at six
00:23:52 --> 00:23:54 times the size of the Earth at least
00:23:54 --> 00:23:56 gravity has to be a factor as well
00:23:56 --> 00:23:59 doesn't it it does I mean if you
00:23:59 --> 00:24:01 estimated that this thing is twice the
00:24:01 --> 00:24:02 Earth diameter and we don't know that
00:24:02 --> 00:24:05 because this thing doesn't Transit its
00:24:05 --> 00:24:07 star or we've never seen it transited
00:24:07 --> 00:24:09 that so it orbit is almost certainly not
00:24:09 --> 00:24:11 Edge on which means its mass is probably
00:24:11 --> 00:24:13 a bit higher than we say that minimum is
00:24:13 --> 00:24:15 but it means we have no way of measuring
00:24:15 --> 00:24:18 the size now at six Earth masses are a
00:24:18 --> 00:24:19 bit heavier it's near this boundary
00:24:19 --> 00:24:22 between what we call superar or and inet
00:24:22 --> 00:24:24 super Earth is a rocky object with a big
00:24:24 --> 00:24:27 thick atmosphere A Min Neptune is a big
00:24:27 --> 00:24:29 thick atmosphere with a rocky car so you
00:24:29 --> 00:24:30 can see how that transitions between
00:24:30 --> 00:24:32 them but if you estimate for a minute
00:24:32 --> 00:24:34 that it is a super Earth with a bit of a
00:24:34 --> 00:24:36 thick atmosphere you could say well
00:24:36 --> 00:24:38 maybe it's twice the diameter of the
00:24:38 --> 00:24:41 earth and that would kind of make sense
00:24:41 --> 00:24:42 density wise that would place it a
00:24:42 --> 00:24:44 little bit less dense of the Earth but
00:24:44 --> 00:24:46 that might make sense it's a little bit
00:24:46 --> 00:24:49 cooler for a lot of its orbit even in
00:24:49 --> 00:24:52 that scenario the acceleration due to
00:24:52 --> 00:24:54 gravity on its surface will be 50%
00:24:54 --> 00:24:55 higher than that we have on the Earth
00:24:55 --> 00:24:58 right now you know so gravity will be
00:24:58 --> 00:24:59 strong we'd probably all if we were
00:24:59 --> 00:25:02 there be Squat and dumpy and grumbling
00:25:02 --> 00:25:04 about how heavy we feel and all the rest
00:25:04 --> 00:25:05 of it you know I'm heavy enough already
00:25:05 --> 00:25:07 without giving me
00:25:07 --> 00:25:11 50 yes no that's a fair point but uh
00:25:11 --> 00:25:13 yeah these these stories are not
00:25:13 --> 00:25:15 uncommon now and you make a a very valid
00:25:15 --> 00:25:17 point that people will just you know
00:25:17 --> 00:25:19 when the day comes that we've genuinely
00:25:19 --> 00:25:21 got an earth like planet Earth
00:25:21 --> 00:25:24 2.0 uh that could Harbor life people to
00:25:24 --> 00:25:28 go yeah Roo yeah heard it all before and
00:25:28 --> 00:25:31 it it's dangerous and quite often the
00:25:31 --> 00:25:33 researchers involved don't have control
00:25:33 --> 00:25:35 of that story that's one of the reasons
00:25:35 --> 00:25:37 I love working with websites like the
00:25:37 --> 00:25:38 conversation where I control the
00:25:38 --> 00:25:40 narrative when I write articles but it's
00:25:40 --> 00:25:42 also why I really appreciate our media
00:25:42 --> 00:25:45 team here at unq because they actually
00:25:45 --> 00:25:47 talked with them when they're writing
00:25:47 --> 00:25:49 media releases and a lot of the bigger
00:25:49 --> 00:25:51 universities the media team get a hold
00:25:51 --> 00:25:52 of the paper and they write their own
00:25:52 --> 00:25:54 interpretation of it with a couple of
00:25:54 --> 00:25:55 quotes from the authors but they don't
00:25:55 --> 00:25:58 let the authors read the release then
00:25:58 --> 00:25:59 you get journalists who read the media
00:25:59 --> 00:26:01 releasee and spin it further yeah and
00:26:01 --> 00:26:03 you end up from an article that says we
00:26:03 --> 00:26:05 found a planet that is interesting to
00:26:05 --> 00:26:07 being new Earth planet has been found
00:26:07 --> 00:26:10 life 2. not is there and that's not what
00:26:10 --> 00:26:13 anybody actually said no but it's a good
00:26:13 --> 00:26:14 way to get hits and links to your
00:26:14 --> 00:26:18 University's website exactly yeah okay
00:26:18 --> 00:26:20 uh if you'd like to read up on that uh
00:26:20 --> 00:26:22 the genuine article I'm talking about uh
00:26:22 --> 00:26:24 you can find it in the journal astronomy
00:26:24 --> 00:26:25 and
00:26:25 --> 00:26:27 astrophysics if you feel better now that
00:26:27 --> 00:26:30 you've got that off your chest joh oh
00:26:30 --> 00:26:32 this is a Perpetual rant of man I
00:26:32 --> 00:26:34 actually did with my former Mentor Barry
00:26:34 --> 00:26:36 Jones who passed away about a decade ago
00:26:36 --> 00:26:39 now um we wrote my first ever review
00:26:39 --> 00:26:41 paper back in 2010 where I dag it dug
00:26:41 --> 00:26:44 into this so it always used to bug me
00:26:44 --> 00:26:45 that it was just is in the habitable
00:26:46 --> 00:26:48 zone right that's job done and so we
00:26:48 --> 00:26:49 wrote this paper where we looked at all
00:26:50 --> 00:26:51 of the other things people have proposed
00:26:51 --> 00:26:53 that could make a planet more habitable
00:26:53 --> 00:26:55 or less habitable more suitable and for
00:26:55 --> 00:26:58 me the thing here is when we get get to
00:26:58 --> 00:27:00 do observations to look for life on
00:27:00 --> 00:27:02 these planets which is still a bit
00:27:02 --> 00:27:04 beyond us but we're getting towards that
00:27:04 --> 00:27:06 point those observations are going to be
00:27:06 --> 00:27:08 the hardest observations Humanity's ever
00:27:08 --> 00:27:10 had to carry out you're talking hundreds
00:27:10 --> 00:27:12 or thousands of hours on the biggest
00:27:12 --> 00:27:15 space telescopes really competitive time
00:27:15 --> 00:27:16 you're not going to be able to look at
00:27:16 --> 00:27:18 them all so you're going to have to find
00:27:18 --> 00:27:20 a way to pick the best Target you're
00:27:20 --> 00:27:21 going to have to find a way to whittle
00:27:21 --> 00:27:22 down a list of hundreds or thousands
00:27:22 --> 00:27:25 into the best two or three and you can't
00:27:25 --> 00:27:26 just use the habitables on that so I
00:27:26 --> 00:27:28 thought let's look at all the things
00:27:28 --> 00:27:30 that can impact habitability to see if
00:27:30 --> 00:27:32 you can turn them almost into the volume
00:27:32 --> 00:27:35 sliders on the mixing desk of the DJ
00:27:35 --> 00:27:36 right you can turn them up turn them
00:27:36 --> 00:27:39 down and see which planet gets the best
00:27:39 --> 00:27:41 score overall when you factor all of
00:27:41 --> 00:27:43 them in and some of them are things we
00:27:43 --> 00:27:44 can't yet observe some of them are
00:27:44 --> 00:27:46 things you might have to model with
00:27:46 --> 00:27:48 computer modeling like I do but it can
00:27:48 --> 00:27:50 be everything from the nature of the
00:27:50 --> 00:27:53 star itself how variable it is all the
00:27:53 --> 00:27:54 way through to the other planets in the
00:27:54 --> 00:27:56 system what their gravity does how much
00:27:56 --> 00:27:58 debris there is and even down to the
00:27:58 --> 00:28:00 planet itself whether it has PL
00:28:00 --> 00:28:02 tectonics whether it has magnetic field
00:28:02 --> 00:28:04 all of these things will factor in it's
00:28:04 --> 00:28:06 not just as simple as where do you play
00:28:06 --> 00:28:09 it is it in the right spot no valid
00:28:09 --> 00:28:12 point all right uh yeah as I said you
00:28:12 --> 00:28:14 can uh chase that story up about
00:28:14 --> 00:28:16 astronomy and astrophysics uh you could
00:28:16 --> 00:28:18 probably find it just about anywhere
00:28:18 --> 00:28:20 online uh there's an article on
00:28:20 --> 00:28:23 space.com as well this is Space Nuts
00:28:23 --> 00:28:29 with Andrew Dunley and joty Horner
00:28:29 --> 00:28:31 and I feel fine Space Nuts right our
00:28:31 --> 00:28:36 next story uh which we've uh done before
00:28:36 --> 00:28:39 we did it a week ago uh about uh the
00:28:39 --> 00:28:42 comet 2024 yr4 I happen to be playing
00:28:42 --> 00:28:46 our podcast in the car I always like to
00:28:46 --> 00:28:48 listen to it just to see how it sounds
00:28:48 --> 00:28:50 and you know decide whether or not I'm
00:28:50 --> 00:28:53 doing a good job or not did it in radio
00:28:53 --> 00:28:55 do it with the podcast but I I was
00:28:55 --> 00:28:57 picking up our grandchildren from school
00:28:57 --> 00:29:03 and and uh Nathaniel who um is 10 years
00:29:03 --> 00:29:05 old um he was listening and he said to
00:29:06 --> 00:29:09 me is it comat going to hit Earth and I
00:29:09 --> 00:29:12 had to kind of explain to him what was
00:29:12 --> 00:29:14 going on without alarming
00:29:14 --> 00:29:17 him uh and now an update on the story
00:29:17 --> 00:29:20 last week we were saying um there was a
00:29:20 --> 00:29:24 70 to 77% chance of this thing um
00:29:24 --> 00:29:26 hitting the atmosphere in
00:29:26 --> 00:29:29 20327 so
00:29:29 --> 00:29:32 sorry yeah see that's that was a popular
00:29:32 --> 00:29:35 press comment one in S7 but now that
00:29:35 --> 00:29:38 number's dropped as at now but that
00:29:38 --> 00:29:41 could change again absolutely so as of
00:29:41 --> 00:29:43 today so when I sent you notes through
00:29:43 --> 00:29:46 yesterday it was at 1 in 43 he now
00:29:46 --> 00:29:48 falling back to 1 in 48 this number is
00:29:48 --> 00:29:51 changing every day and what we will see
00:29:51 --> 00:29:52 and what we'll continue to see is most
00:29:52 --> 00:29:56 likely those odds of an impact gradually
00:29:56 --> 00:29:59 increasing and until eventually they
00:29:59 --> 00:30:02 most likely drop to zero and the reason
00:30:02 --> 00:30:03 for that is we're getting more
00:30:03 --> 00:30:05 observations with every day that passes
00:30:05 --> 00:30:06 and so with every day that passes we get
00:30:07 --> 00:30:10 a refined estimate of the orbit of this
00:30:10 --> 00:30:13 thing that then means that the exact
00:30:13 --> 00:30:15 location of the object on 22nd of
00:30:15 --> 00:30:18 December 2032 has a smaller uncertainty
00:30:18 --> 00:30:21 so that big area of space that we think
00:30:21 --> 00:30:22 it will be in with each day's
00:30:22 --> 00:30:25 observations get smaller and smaller now
00:30:25 --> 00:30:27 if the Earth is still in that area of
00:30:27 --> 00:30:28 space
00:30:28 --> 00:30:30 the Earth is a bigger fraction of that
00:30:30 --> 00:30:32 total volume of space and so the
00:30:32 --> 00:30:34 probability of impact is going up
00:30:34 --> 00:30:36 because we're a bigger fraction of the
00:30:36 --> 00:30:38 total area that thing could be in but at
00:30:38 --> 00:30:40 some point as that volume of space
00:30:40 --> 00:30:42 shrinks down the Earth could fall out of
00:30:42 --> 00:30:44 it and at that point the probability
00:30:44 --> 00:30:46 immediately drops to zero so it isn't a
00:30:46 --> 00:30:48 reason to panic at all this is exactly
00:30:48 --> 00:30:51 the behavior you would expect to see but
00:30:51 --> 00:30:53 that probability will continue to change
00:30:53 --> 00:30:55 day by day wouldn't surprise me if it
00:30:55 --> 00:30:58 keeps getting higher now this asid we're
00:30:58 --> 00:31:00 probably going to lose Tru of in about
00:31:00 --> 00:31:02 April a little bit too far away to
00:31:02 --> 00:31:04 observe then we won't see it again till
00:31:04 --> 00:31:07 2028 people are digging back through
00:31:07 --> 00:31:11 archival observations from 2016 2012
00:31:11 --> 00:31:13 2008 because this thing comes roughly
00:31:13 --> 00:31:16 near the Earth every four years or so if
00:31:16 --> 00:31:18 we find it by chance on one photograph
00:31:18 --> 00:31:21 from one of those previous years this
00:31:21 --> 00:31:22 probability will change dramatically and
00:31:22 --> 00:31:24 will'll probably drop to zero straight
00:31:24 --> 00:31:27 away if not we'll have to wait till 2028
00:31:27 --> 00:31:28 and until then then we'll see this
00:31:28 --> 00:31:31 continual slight wobbling around as each
00:31:31 --> 00:31:33 day's observations coming and it gets
00:31:33 --> 00:31:36 recalculated so fundamentally nothing
00:31:36 --> 00:31:38 has changed this things still pose as a
00:31:38 --> 00:31:40 threat do not panic even if it were to
00:31:40 --> 00:31:41 hit us it's not really going to cause a
00:31:41 --> 00:31:43 problem anyway to be brutally honest but
00:31:43 --> 00:31:46 it is fascinating to watch this happen
00:31:46 --> 00:31:48 and to see that evolution in real
00:31:49 --> 00:31:51 time absolutely yeah I think I said
00:31:51 --> 00:31:54 Comet I meant asteroid but um yeah 2024
00:31:54 --> 00:31:58 y4 if you do a search on Google whatever
00:31:58 --> 00:31:59 your favorite search engine is you'll
00:31:59 --> 00:32:01 find plenty of
00:32:01 --> 00:32:04 information and you I I would advise
00:32:04 --> 00:32:06 filtering the popular press comments
00:32:06 --> 00:32:09 because that they uh they've been going
00:32:09 --> 00:32:11 hammer and tongs on this one absolutely
00:32:11 --> 00:32:14 um but yeah it like like Johny said on
00:32:14 --> 00:32:16 the previous story uh it's clickbait
00:32:16 --> 00:32:18 isn't it um that's something that's
00:32:18 --> 00:32:21 really it but I I did reassure my
00:32:21 --> 00:32:23 grandson because as soon as I finished
00:32:23 --> 00:32:25 explaining it he wanted to talk about
00:32:25 --> 00:32:28 Pokemon so I think I was sucess in
00:32:28 --> 00:32:31 deflecting him there uh to our final
00:32:31 --> 00:32:34 story jonty and this one is about stuff
00:32:34 --> 00:32:36 that's hitting the atmosphere we're
00:32:36 --> 00:32:39 talking specifically about the um
00:32:39 --> 00:32:43 turnover of SpaceX satellites uh they've
00:32:43 --> 00:32:47 been starting to rain down on Earth uh
00:32:47 --> 00:32:49 fairly regularly in fact uh the Space
00:32:49 --> 00:32:52 Nuts podcast group on Facebook uh has
00:32:52 --> 00:32:55 been um discussing this they they put an
00:32:55 --> 00:32:57 article on there that the the listeners
00:32:58 --> 00:33:01 were discussing and some some were quite
00:33:01 --> 00:33:03 surprised by the kinds of numbers we're
00:33:03 --> 00:33:05 talking about but this is just going to
00:33:05 --> 00:33:07 get more and more significant as time
00:33:07 --> 00:33:09 goes on because they haven't finished
00:33:09 --> 00:33:10 deploying their
00:33:10 --> 00:33:13 entire uh Fleet or whatever you want to
00:33:13 --> 00:33:16 call them of SpaceX satellites yeah this
00:33:16 --> 00:33:19 is yet another multifaceted story so I
00:33:19 --> 00:33:21 know a lot of people who get very
00:33:21 --> 00:33:23 passionate in their defense of SpaceX
00:33:23 --> 00:33:25 and the AL musk and many others who have
00:33:25 --> 00:33:26 very negative views of them and I was
00:33:26 --> 00:33:28 try and be somewhere in the middle big
00:33:28 --> 00:33:30 sack it's like in literature if you ever
00:33:31 --> 00:33:34 read a book very few people are purely
00:33:34 --> 00:33:35 evil or purely good everybody's
00:33:35 --> 00:33:37 somewhere in the middle unless it's a
00:33:37 --> 00:33:40 bad book and it's the same with things
00:33:40 --> 00:33:41 like this there's a lot of good about
00:33:41 --> 00:33:43 this and a lot of bad about it now Spex
00:33:43 --> 00:33:46 are putting up their St satellites to
00:33:46 --> 00:33:49 deliver internet access which is a great
00:33:49 --> 00:33:51 benefit to people in the regions you
00:33:51 --> 00:33:53 know and I've heard plenty of stories of
00:33:53 --> 00:33:55 people who are living remotely in
00:33:55 --> 00:33:56 Australia who can't get a good internet
00:33:56 --> 00:33:58 connection and styling has been
00:33:58 --> 00:34:00 revolutionary to them yeah and and
00:34:00 --> 00:34:03 cruise ships use styling AB because
00:34:03 --> 00:34:05 they're always they're in remote areas a
00:34:05 --> 00:34:08 lot yeah it is a really incredible
00:34:08 --> 00:34:10 technological development on the other
00:34:10 --> 00:34:11 hand you've got all the concerns about
00:34:11 --> 00:34:13 the light pollution from these
00:34:13 --> 00:34:16 things and the fact that they launch
00:34:16 --> 00:34:17 them without anybody really being able
00:34:17 --> 00:34:21 to regulate it or say boot about it it
00:34:21 --> 00:34:23 it's a multifaceted problem and there's
00:34:23 --> 00:34:26 good things and bad things about it in
00:34:26 --> 00:34:28 much the same way this story is both a
00:34:28 --> 00:34:30 good and bad story you've got all these
00:34:30 --> 00:34:33 satellites up there and they have finite
00:34:33 --> 00:34:36 lifetimes they are low down because you
00:34:36 --> 00:34:38 need them to be in low earth orbit in
00:34:38 --> 00:34:39 order to get good latency if you put
00:34:40 --> 00:34:42 these at G stationary orbit you've got
00:34:42 --> 00:34:43 the light travel time there and Back
00:34:43 --> 00:34:46 Again you've got a long way to go and
00:34:46 --> 00:34:48 that puts a significant ping which means
00:34:48 --> 00:34:50 for the people playing twitch games and
00:34:50 --> 00:34:52 firstperson shooter games they complain
00:34:52 --> 00:34:55 and Suk um but everybody wants a faster
00:34:55 --> 00:34:57 internet connection with the lowest
00:34:57 --> 00:34:58 latency possible so these things are in
00:34:58 --> 00:35:00 low earth orbit which means that they
00:35:00 --> 00:35:03 are moving through a significant chunk
00:35:03 --> 00:35:04 of the Earth's atmosphere the Earth's
00:35:04 --> 00:35:05 atmosphere doesn't just stop it just
00:35:06 --> 00:35:07 gets thinner and thinner and thinner the
00:35:07 --> 00:35:09 further you go away technically the
00:35:09 --> 00:35:10 Moon's still encountering bits of the
00:35:10 --> 00:35:12 Earth's atmosphere it should by that
00:35:12 --> 00:35:13 point it's still thinnest to be
00:35:13 --> 00:35:15 irrelevant but at the altitude of these
00:35:15 --> 00:35:17 siling satellites they are actually
00:35:17 --> 00:35:20 traveling into a headwind so without
00:35:20 --> 00:35:22 something to bump them up they would
00:35:22 --> 00:35:24 eventually come down naturally anyway
00:35:24 --> 00:35:27 but also they are a fixed term thing
00:35:27 --> 00:35:30 they typically I think thinking about an
00:35:30 --> 00:35:31 individual satellite having about a
00:35:31 --> 00:35:34 fiveyear lifetime yeah now it's about
00:35:34 --> 00:35:35 five years since the Starlet Sates
00:35:35 --> 00:35:37 started getting launched which means the
00:35:37 --> 00:35:40 very first generation of them are now in
00:35:40 --> 00:35:41 their retirement
00:35:41 --> 00:35:45 phase what is really good about this is
00:35:45 --> 00:35:48 that SpaceX and starlink are being very
00:35:48 --> 00:35:50 aggressive in the retirement in that
00:35:51 --> 00:35:52 they are controlling these things and
00:35:52 --> 00:35:54 deliberately putting them back in the
00:35:54 --> 00:35:55 atmosphere to burn up in a controlled
00:35:55 --> 00:35:57 fashion so they're controlling where
00:35:57 --> 00:35:59 they drop them into the atmosphere to
00:35:59 --> 00:36:01 minimize the risk to air travel and the
00:36:02 --> 00:36:03 risk of them dropping on a city and
00:36:03 --> 00:36:06 things like this and that is really good
00:36:06 --> 00:36:07 governance it's really important to say
00:36:07 --> 00:36:09 that there's a lot of stuff up there
00:36:09 --> 00:36:11 that will come down of its own accord at
00:36:11 --> 00:36:14 its own time with no control over it and
00:36:14 --> 00:36:16 that's a risk and people are talking
00:36:16 --> 00:36:17 about the fact that there's probably as
00:36:18 --> 00:36:20 high as a 26% chance that in a given
00:36:20 --> 00:36:23 year from now on Space Dey will fall
00:36:23 --> 00:36:25 through a populated
00:36:25 --> 00:36:27 airspace which is problematic there's
00:36:27 --> 00:36:29 even studies saying there's a one in 10
00:36:29 --> 00:36:31 chance that within the next decade
00:36:31 --> 00:36:33 somebody will die as a result of Spar
00:36:33 --> 00:36:36 Dey hitting them so that's a concern and
00:36:36 --> 00:36:38 by deliberately deorbiting these things
00:36:38 --> 00:36:40 in a controlled fashion they're
00:36:40 --> 00:36:42 mitigating those risks they're putting
00:36:42 --> 00:36:44 things down in a safe fashion but
00:36:44 --> 00:36:45 because of how many satellites they're
00:36:45 --> 00:36:47 putting up there that means we've got an
00:36:47 --> 00:36:49 increasing number of them coming back
00:36:49 --> 00:36:52 down there are currently 7 stying
00:36:52 --> 00:36:54 satellites up there the goal is to get
00:36:54 --> 00:36:58 up to 42 that is their sta there so
00:36:58 --> 00:37:01 that's of more yeah that's just Starling
00:37:01 --> 00:37:04 because there are many others there are
00:37:04 --> 00:37:06 if you look at all of the proposed Mega
00:37:06 --> 00:37:08 constellations I think the current
00:37:08 --> 00:37:10 number is that there could be as many as
00:37:10 --> 00:37:12 550 satellites in orbit within a
00:37:12 --> 00:37:14 decade which makes me as an amateur
00:37:14 --> 00:37:16 astronomer the kind of P me that does
00:37:16 --> 00:37:18 out and observes mete shs and stuff just
00:37:18 --> 00:37:20 makes me weak because we'll lose the
00:37:20 --> 00:37:22 night sky to such a degree but that
00:37:22 --> 00:37:25 that's a slightly separate thing with
00:37:25 --> 00:37:26 7 up there at the minute the
00:37:26 --> 00:37:28 retirements of those first gen ones are
00:37:28 --> 00:37:30 now coming at a rate of four or five
00:37:30 --> 00:37:33 satellites per day so that means four or
00:37:33 --> 00:37:34 five satellites are burning up somewhere
00:37:34 --> 00:37:37 over the Earth every single day of the
00:37:38 --> 00:37:39 calendar
00:37:39 --> 00:37:41 year that's only going to go up because
00:37:41 --> 00:37:42 if you increase the number of satellites
00:37:42 --> 00:37:45 up there by a factor of six times then
00:37:45 --> 00:37:46 you'll increase that number of
00:37:46 --> 00:37:48 re-entries per day by factor of six
00:37:48 --> 00:37:50 times so within five years we could well
00:37:50 --> 00:37:53 be looking at something nearer to 25 or
00:37:53 --> 00:37:55 even 30 satellites per day coming back
00:37:55 --> 00:37:57 into the atmosphere now the are coming
00:37:57 --> 00:38:00 in in a controlled fashion so they're
00:38:00 --> 00:38:01 trying to drop them in the atmosphere
00:38:02 --> 00:38:03 away from things that would be
00:38:03 --> 00:38:05 threatened by lumps of metal hitting the
00:38:05 --> 00:38:08 ice atmosphere essentially yeah but
00:38:08 --> 00:38:09 there is now a growing concern about the
00:38:09 --> 00:38:12 pollution side of this that's the I was
00:38:13 --> 00:38:15 getting yeah that's the that's the big
00:38:15 --> 00:38:17 if isn't it and it's a difficult one
00:38:17 --> 00:38:18 because it's not an experiment that's
00:38:18 --> 00:38:20 ever been done before things have
00:38:20 --> 00:38:22 re-entered um but in the past we've not
00:38:22 --> 00:38:24 been putting much up in space so it's
00:38:24 --> 00:38:26 been a very rare thing a little bit of
00:38:26 --> 00:38:28 extra material dumped into the
00:38:28 --> 00:38:30 atmosphere a tiny amount compared to the
00:38:30 --> 00:38:32 amount that comes in natural through
00:38:32 --> 00:38:33 metas and
00:38:33 --> 00:38:35 meteorites um stuff hitting the S
00:38:35 --> 00:38:36 atmosphere naturally but we're now
00:38:36 --> 00:38:38 getting to a stage where this is a
00:38:38 --> 00:38:40 significant amount of material entering
00:38:41 --> 00:38:42 the S atmosphere each of these
00:38:42 --> 00:38:44 generation one satellites is several
00:38:44 --> 00:38:47 hundred kilos of material so when you've
00:38:47 --> 00:38:48 got five of them coming in a day that's
00:38:48 --> 00:38:51 a couple of tons of material being a
00:38:51 --> 00:38:53 bled and added to the atmosphere mainly
00:38:53 --> 00:38:55 in the form of heavy
00:38:55 --> 00:38:58 metals there is a fact that I've pulled
00:38:58 --> 00:38:59 out of an interesting article India
00:38:59 --> 00:39:01 Today of all places have got a fairly
00:39:01 --> 00:39:03 good article about this and one thing
00:39:03 --> 00:39:05 they point out is that each individual
00:39:06 --> 00:39:07 one of these generation one St
00:39:07 --> 00:39:09 satellites when it burns up in the
00:39:09 --> 00:39:11 atmosphere when it a blades deposits
00:39:11 --> 00:39:15 about 30 kilos of aluminium oxide into
00:39:15 --> 00:39:16 the upper atmosphere about where the
00:39:17 --> 00:39:19 ozone layer is now that's a problem
00:39:19 --> 00:39:21 because aluminium oxide is a compound
00:39:21 --> 00:39:24 that is known to be very devastating to
00:39:24 --> 00:39:26 the ozone layer it's a real problem now
00:39:26 --> 00:39:29 if each s is dumping 30 kg into the
00:39:29 --> 00:39:31 atmosphere that has the potential to
00:39:31 --> 00:39:34 destroy a large amount of ozone if
00:39:34 --> 00:39:35 you're suddenly dumping five of them in
00:39:36 --> 00:39:40 per day that's 150 kilos per day if you
00:39:40 --> 00:39:43 go up to the 25 obviously that goes up
00:39:43 --> 00:39:46 again from 150 kilos to what 5 time 150
00:39:46 --> 00:39:47 is
00:39:47 --> 00:39:51 750 nil your ton of aluminium oxide per
00:39:51 --> 00:39:53 day something that can damage the oone L
00:39:53 --> 00:39:55 and we've only just got out of the time
00:39:55 --> 00:39:56 where we did an incredible job of
00:39:56 --> 00:39:58 preventing is killing the ozone layer
00:39:59 --> 00:40:01 yeah we're about to start it again
00:40:01 --> 00:40:03 people have tried to do some
00:40:03 --> 00:40:05 computational studies of the effects of
00:40:05 --> 00:40:06 adding all this metal to the upper
00:40:06 --> 00:40:08 atmosphere and nobody really knows
00:40:08 --> 00:40:10 what's going to happen some Studies have
00:40:10 --> 00:40:13 said that it could accidentally help to
00:40:13 --> 00:40:14 slightly mitigate climate change but it
00:40:15 --> 00:40:16 might increase the albo of the a
00:40:16 --> 00:40:18 atmosphere it might cause more clouds to
00:40:18 --> 00:40:20 form so it could reflect a bit more
00:40:20 --> 00:40:22 sunlight or could be good but other
00:40:22 --> 00:40:24 Studies have suggested the opposite that
00:40:24 --> 00:40:25 it could actually lower the amount of
00:40:25 --> 00:40:27 clouds we've got and also a bit more
00:40:27 --> 00:40:30 Greenhouse nastiness to the mix so it
00:40:30 --> 00:40:31 could have an impact on our climate we
00:40:31 --> 00:40:33 don't know which way it'll go it could
00:40:33 --> 00:40:35 have an impact on the ozone layer we
00:40:35 --> 00:40:37 just don't know yet and so what's
00:40:37 --> 00:40:39 happening with this is we're effectively
00:40:39 --> 00:40:41 running a science experiment like the
00:40:41 --> 00:40:42 ones you do in the lab the ones you do
00:40:42 --> 00:40:45 at school without ever done it without
00:40:45 --> 00:40:47 ever having done it before and we're
00:40:47 --> 00:40:49 running it on the planet that is our own
00:40:49 --> 00:40:52 home so I guess it's a bit like you know
00:40:52 --> 00:40:54 you've got two unruly toddlers running
00:40:54 --> 00:40:57 around with um insects cray like the
00:40:57 --> 00:40:58 stuff you've got to get rid of the
00:40:58 --> 00:41:01 mosquitoes yeah running around emptying
00:41:01 --> 00:41:02 can after can of that in your house and
00:41:02 --> 00:41:03 you're just saying yeah well let's do it
00:41:03 --> 00:41:05 what's the worst that can happen and you
00:41:05 --> 00:41:09 just don't know yeah uh 42
00:41:09 --> 00:41:10 satellites when they're ultimately all
00:41:10 --> 00:41:12 up there coming back down into the
00:41:12 --> 00:41:16 atmosphere we'll deposit 1.26 million
00:41:16 --> 00:41:19 kilograms of aluminium oxide so and
00:41:19 --> 00:41:21 that's going to be continuous because
00:41:21 --> 00:41:23 they it's not just
00:41:23 --> 00:41:26 42 as they come down they'll replace
00:41:26 --> 00:41:29 them and add more to get to their full
00:41:29 --> 00:41:32 structure so it'll be an ongoing thing
00:41:32 --> 00:41:34 multiplied by however many
00:41:34 --> 00:41:36 constellations are created to do the
00:41:36 --> 00:41:38 same thing so but it isn't also like
00:41:38 --> 00:41:40 that is easily recoverable that's a lot
00:41:40 --> 00:41:43 of resources that we're just losing yeah
00:41:43 --> 00:41:46 exactly um now I could imagine a much
00:41:46 --> 00:41:47 further future where instead of things
00:41:47 --> 00:41:50 being retired by deorbiting them you
00:41:50 --> 00:41:52 retire them by boosting them to kind of
00:41:52 --> 00:41:54 graveyard orbits and have something
00:41:54 --> 00:41:55 there collecting them and melting them
00:41:55 --> 00:41:58 down for the materials H but that's why
00:41:58 --> 00:41:59 in the future because that will be a lot
00:41:59 --> 00:42:01 more expensive it's cheaper at the
00:42:01 --> 00:42:03 minute to just throw them away I mean we
00:42:03 --> 00:42:05 see with recycling efforts that there's
00:42:05 --> 00:42:07 not much motivation to recycle when
00:42:07 --> 00:42:10 making things from new products is still
00:42:10 --> 00:42:13 cheaper yeah well if I could solve the
00:42:13 --> 00:42:16 latency problem that would maybe help
00:42:16 --> 00:42:18 cure it as well but how do you do that
00:42:18 --> 00:42:20 relay stations on Earth I don't know I
00:42:20 --> 00:42:23 don't know but uh yeah that that's a
00:42:23 --> 00:42:25 really fascinating story I know Fred and
00:42:25 --> 00:42:26 I have talked about it before but it's
00:42:26 --> 00:42:28 worth revisiting and uh yeah the
00:42:28 --> 00:42:31 information just keeps evolving over
00:42:31 --> 00:42:34 time and we're not nearly at capacity
00:42:35 --> 00:42:36 yet with these constellations if you'd
00:42:36 --> 00:42:39 like to read it uh as jonty said it's uh
00:42:39 --> 00:42:42 on the website
00:42:42 --> 00:42:44 indiatoday.in that brings us to the end
00:42:44 --> 00:42:45 of the show don't forget to visit our
00:42:45 --> 00:42:48 website or our social media sites plenty
00:42:48 --> 00:42:50 of things to see and do there uh if you
00:42:50 --> 00:42:52 have any thoughts on any of the things
00:42:52 --> 00:42:54 we've discussed by all means uh send us
00:42:54 --> 00:42:56 a message via our website just there's a
00:42:56 --> 00:42:59 little button up top of our homepage um
00:42:59 --> 00:43:02 AMA where you can send us messages and
00:43:02 --> 00:43:04 audio questions or whatever you like
00:43:04 --> 00:43:05 Space Nuts
00:43:05 --> 00:43:09 podcast.com or SPAC nuts. is the place
00:43:09 --> 00:43:12 to go John D thank you so much we're at
00:43:12 --> 00:43:14 the end we'll catch up with you real
00:43:14 --> 00:43:16 soon it's absolute pleasure thank you
00:43:16 --> 00:43:18 for having me uh Johny Horner professor
00:43:18 --> 00:43:20 of astrophysics at the University of
00:43:20 --> 00:43:22 Southern Queensland thanks to Hugh in
00:43:22 --> 00:43:25 the studio who um well he he couldn't be
00:43:25 --> 00:43:27 with us today cuz he got hit by a piece
00:43:27 --> 00:43:29 of SpaceX
00:43:29 --> 00:43:33 satellite uh no no he didn't maybe he
00:43:33 --> 00:43:34 did I don't know I've been seen it for
00:43:34 --> 00:43:36 ages and from me Andrew Dunley thanks
00:43:36 --> 00:43:37 very much for your company we'll catch
00:43:37 --> 00:43:40 you on the next episode of Space Nuts
00:43:40 --> 00:43:42 bye for now Space Nuts you'll be
00:43:42 --> 00:43:45 listening to the Space Nuts
00:43:45 --> 00:43:48 podcast available at Apple podcasts
00:43:48 --> 00:43:51 Spotify ihart radio or your favorite
00:43:51 --> 00:43:54 podcast player you can also stream on
00:43:54 --> 00:43:56 demand at bites.com this has been
00:43:56 --> 00:43:58 another a quality podcast production
00:43:59 --> 00:44:02 from ds.com