Diving Deep: The Moon's Secrets, Hubble Tension, and a Triple System Discovery
In this fascinating episode of Space Nuts, host Andrew Dunkley and the ever-knowledgeable Professor Fred Watson explore the latest revelations about the Moon's interior, the complexities of Hubble tension, and an exciting discovery in the Kuiper Belt. Buckle up for a cosmic ride through these intriguing topics!
Episode Highlights:
- The Moon's Interior Unveiled: Andrew and Fred Watson discuss the findings from the Grail mission, revealing surprising differences in the Moon's mantle and how temperature variations may explain the stark contrasts between the near and far sides of our lunar companion.
- Understanding Hubble Tension: The duo dives into a new theory surrounding Hubble tension, exploring the evolving nature of dark matter and dark energy, and how recent data might reshape our understanding of the universe's expansion.
- A Triple System in the Kuiper Belt: They discuss the discovery of a potential triple system involving the asteroid 148780 Algeria, made using the Hubble Space Telescope, highlighting the rarity of such systems and their significance in understanding the solar system's formation.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
(00:00) Welcome to Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley and Fred Watson Watson
(01:20) Discussion on the Moon's interior and the Grail mission findings
(15:00) Exploring the latest theories on Hubble tension
(25:30) Discovery of a triple system in the Kuiper Belt
For commercial-free versions of Space Nuts, join us on Patreon, Supercast, Apple Podcasts, or become a supporter here: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support (https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss) .
Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/27253176?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Hello again, Andrew Dunley here from
00:00:02 --> 00:00:04 Space Nuts, where we talk astronomy and
00:00:04 --> 00:00:06 space science. Good to have your
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 company. Coming up on this episode, we
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 are going to talk about the moon. It's
00:00:10 --> 00:00:12 got a near side, it's got a far side,
00:00:12 --> 00:00:14 but we're going to talk about the
00:00:14 --> 00:00:17 inside. Uh, it's the discovery of the
00:00:17 --> 00:00:20 Grail mission. Uh, which means what
00:00:20 --> 00:00:23 we're talking about is a flesh wound.
00:00:23 --> 00:00:25 Uh, another Hubble tension, think about
00:00:25 --> 00:00:27 it, another Hubble tension theory, and
00:00:27 --> 00:00:30 we're talking evolution this time. And a
00:00:30 --> 00:00:33 triple system in the Kyper belt. So,
00:00:33 --> 00:00:36 buckle up for this episode of Space
00:00:36 --> 00:00:39 Nuts. 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.
00:00:39 --> 00:00:43 10 9 Ignition sequence start. Space
00:00:43 --> 00:00:50 Nuts. 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 2 1 Space Nuts.
00:00:50 --> 00:00:53 Astronauts report. It feels good. And
00:00:53 --> 00:00:55 back with us again is Professor Fred
00:00:55 --> 00:00:57 Watson, astronomer at large. Hello,
00:00:57 --> 00:01:00 Fred. Hello, Andrew. Hello. It took me a
00:01:00 --> 00:01:02 couple couple of seconds, but I did get
00:01:02 --> 00:01:04 the to get the um flesh flesh wound.
00:01:04 --> 00:01:06 Flesh wound the grail mission. It's only
00:01:06 --> 00:01:08 a flesh wound. It's only a flesh wound.
00:01:08 --> 00:01:12 That's right. Oh dear. No arms, no legs,
00:01:12 --> 00:01:14 but nothing flesh wound. That's a flesh
00:01:14 --> 00:01:18 wound. Um so yes, that I I can't help
00:01:18 --> 00:01:23 dad jokes and and and that I I when I do
00:01:23 --> 00:01:25 the presentations at golf on Fridays,
00:01:25 --> 00:01:28 which has become my job somehow, um I
00:01:28 --> 00:01:30 always have to finish on a dad joke.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:33 It's just become a thing. Yes. So, yes,
00:01:33 --> 00:01:35 I'm sure it has. The reputation
00:01:35 --> 00:01:37 continues to spread. Uh we'll be talking
00:01:37 --> 00:01:41 dad jokes in our next episode, our Q&A
00:01:41 --> 00:01:44 episode as well. Uh we should begin with
00:01:44 --> 00:01:47 this um Grail mission and the findings
00:01:47 --> 00:01:51 of the moon's unusual interior. This uh
00:01:51 --> 00:01:53 might come as a surprise to some
00:01:53 --> 00:01:56 people. Well, I think it does. Excuse
00:01:56 --> 00:01:58 me. I think it did come as a surprise
00:01:58 --> 00:01:59 when the discovery was made as well.
00:01:59 --> 00:02:02 These are um scientists from NASA and
00:02:02 --> 00:02:03 other
00:02:03 --> 00:02:06 institutions. Um yeah, let's do the dad
00:02:06 --> 00:02:09 joke first. The uh it's not Montipython
00:02:09 --> 00:02:11 and the Holy Grail.
00:02:11 --> 00:02:15 Uh GRA stands for gravity recovery and
00:02:15 --> 00:02:17 interior laboratory. Uh and it was a
00:02:17 --> 00:02:20 mission uh which I guess it was more
00:02:20 --> 00:02:23 than it's probably a decade ago. Um uh
00:02:23 --> 00:02:27 it's a very very neat uh piece of
00:02:27 --> 00:02:29 research and NASA you know the clever
00:02:29 --> 00:02:31 stuff that they do is just unbelievable.
00:02:31 --> 00:02:34 Uh so what do you do if you want to
00:02:34 --> 00:02:37 sense the gravity of um a planet that
00:02:38 --> 00:02:39 you're flying over? you want to map out
00:02:39 --> 00:02:43 the gravitational details and by doing
00:02:43 --> 00:02:44 that you can work out what's underneath
00:02:44 --> 00:02:47 the surface uh because that's usually
00:02:47 --> 00:02:49 what affects the gravity above the
00:02:49 --> 00:02:52 surface of a of a of a planet and I'm
00:02:52 --> 00:02:54 talking now about you know really minor
00:02:54 --> 00:02:58 minor um um differences and
00:02:58 --> 00:03:01 discrepancies in in gravity uh how the
00:03:01 --> 00:03:04 Grail mission worked uh and I'm kind of
00:03:04 --> 00:03:07 casting my memory back now um two
00:03:07 --> 00:03:11 spacecraft uh in orbit around the moon
00:03:11 --> 00:03:13 separate in the same they're both in the
00:03:13 --> 00:03:15 same orbit. They were separated I think
00:03:15 --> 00:03:18 by about 200 kilometers one in front of
00:03:18 --> 00:03:23 the other but the distance between them
00:03:23 --> 00:03:25 could be detected by microwave
00:03:25 --> 00:03:28 transmission to well under a millimeter.
00:03:28 --> 00:03:30 I can't remember what it was. It was a
00:03:30 --> 00:03:33 few microns I think. Uh but this tiny
00:03:33 --> 00:03:36 tiny difference between the position of
00:03:36 --> 00:03:38 the two spacecraft, you can measure it
00:03:38 --> 00:03:41 uh by these microwave signals. And so as
00:03:41 --> 00:03:44 the two spacecraft go around the moon,
00:03:44 --> 00:03:47 their separation changes slightly as a
00:03:47 --> 00:03:49 result of the gravitational
00:03:49 --> 00:03:51 gravitational pull of the terrain
00:03:51 --> 00:03:56 beneath them. Uh and it actually is uh
00:03:56 --> 00:03:58 uh a really very sensitive way. I love
00:03:58 --> 00:04:01 the fact that they rediscovered uh
00:04:01 --> 00:04:03 something that we talked about in the
00:04:03 --> 00:04:05 very earliest uh history of moon
00:04:05 --> 00:04:07 exploration back in the uh Geminy and
00:04:07 --> 00:04:11 Apollo era back in the 19 uh60s uh
00:04:11 --> 00:04:14 masscons which were mass concentrations
00:04:14 --> 00:04:15 concentrations of mass that were
00:04:15 --> 00:04:17 unexpected underneath the moon's
00:04:17 --> 00:04:19 surface. They were actually measured
00:04:19 --> 00:04:21 just by spacecraft that were orbiting
00:04:21 --> 00:04:24 single spacecraft orbiting uh the moon.
00:04:24 --> 00:04:26 Uh but uh Gra actually mapped them out
00:04:26 --> 00:04:28 in much more detail. We know a lot more
00:04:28 --> 00:04:30 about these maskons now than we did
00:04:30 --> 00:04:34 before. Uh but what has happened uh uh
00:04:34 --> 00:04:36 and by the way I should just mention one
00:04:36 --> 00:04:39 uh I should have put this in as a as a
00:04:39 --> 00:04:41 quirky factoid, shouldn't I? Philippant
00:04:41 --> 00:04:45 factoid that the two uh spacecraft, the
00:04:45 --> 00:04:46 two components of Grail, do you remember
00:04:46 --> 00:04:49 what they were called?
00:04:49 --> 00:04:54 Oh no. Eb and flow. Uh, and it ca I
00:04:54 --> 00:04:56 think it was school kids who did that.
00:04:56 --> 00:04:58 If I remember rightly, NASA sent out a
00:04:58 --> 00:04:59 competition saying we've got two
00:05:00 --> 00:05:01 spacecraft in orbit around the moon.
00:05:01 --> 00:05:02 What do you want to call them? And they
00:05:02 --> 00:05:05 were called eb and flow. Uh, which is
00:05:05 --> 00:05:08 very very nice indeed. Anyway, eb and
00:05:08 --> 00:05:13 flow uh in combination uh measured uh
00:05:13 --> 00:05:15 virtually the gravitational map of the
00:05:15 --> 00:05:19 whole moon. But what has come to light
00:05:19 --> 00:05:22 is something a little bit more subtle.
00:05:22 --> 00:05:25 uh these uh researchers who've now used
00:05:25 --> 00:05:29 these NASA data to deduce that there's a
00:05:29 --> 00:05:30 2 to
00:05:30 --> 00:05:36 3% difference in the ability of the
00:05:36 --> 00:05:38 lunar mantle. Now that's the layer below
00:05:38 --> 00:05:40 the crust. That's the layer that
00:05:40 --> 00:05:42 surrounds the core of the moon. The
00:05:42 --> 00:05:48 ability of the mantle to deform. So what
00:05:48 --> 00:05:50 you're saying is there's a difference in
00:05:50 --> 00:05:53 sort of flexibility from one side of the
00:05:53 --> 00:05:55 moon to the other. And remember as we
00:05:55 --> 00:05:57 know the moon always faces the same side
00:05:57 --> 00:06:00 to earth. Uh and so that's you know
00:06:00 --> 00:06:01 there's a different gravitational pull
00:06:01 --> 00:06:03 on one side from what there is on the
00:06:03 --> 00:06:05 other. Um but what they've interpreted
00:06:05 --> 00:06:09 this difference as being they say it's
00:06:09 --> 00:06:11 symptomatic. the fact that there's this
00:06:11 --> 00:06:14 difference in the moon's mantle's
00:06:14 --> 00:06:17 ability to to deform, to change its
00:06:17 --> 00:06:20 shape. Uh they say that is best
00:06:20 --> 00:06:25 explained by the temperature inside the
00:06:25 --> 00:06:29 mantle on the near side being as much as
00:06:29 --> 00:06:33 170° C hotter than what it is on the
00:06:33 --> 00:06:36 other side. Wow. The side facing us.
00:06:36 --> 00:06:37 Yeah, it is. It's not a small amount.
00:06:37 --> 00:06:40 It's not a few degrees. It's a lot. Um,
00:06:40 --> 00:06:42 and and it's enough to change the
00:06:42 --> 00:06:44 viscosity of the mantle. Uh, how
00:06:44 --> 00:06:48 flexible it is. Uh, and so that's the
00:06:48 --> 00:06:51 new finding that's come from Eb and
00:06:51 --> 00:06:52 flow. And I think what they're saying is
00:06:52 --> 00:06:55 that the spacecraft was in orbit for
00:06:55 --> 00:06:57 long enough that it could detect
00:06:57 --> 00:06:59 differences in the gravitational pull.
00:07:00 --> 00:07:01 As it flew over the same part of the
00:07:02 --> 00:07:03 moon more than once, it could see a
00:07:03 --> 00:07:05 difference in the gravitational pull
00:07:05 --> 00:07:07 from one trip to another. So there's a
00:07:07 --> 00:07:09 time dependent thing on it and that's
00:07:09 --> 00:07:12 how they know about the moon's ability
00:07:12 --> 00:07:14 to deform. I'm actually interpreting
00:07:14 --> 00:07:17 that in my own way. This there's a a
00:07:17 --> 00:07:20 nice paper in Nature magazine perhaps
00:07:20 --> 00:07:22 the one of the two leading journals for
00:07:22 --> 00:07:24 science in the world which has the title
00:07:24 --> 00:07:27 of thermal asymmetry in the moon's
00:07:27 --> 00:07:29 mantle inferred from monthly tidal
00:07:29 --> 00:07:33 response. Okay. So my question straight
00:07:33 --> 00:07:37 up is could that explain or does that
00:07:37 --> 00:07:40 explain why the near side and the far
00:07:40 --> 00:07:43 side of the moon are so very different
00:07:43 --> 00:07:45 uh when you're talking topography? Yeah,
00:07:45 --> 00:07:47 I I think it's the other way around. I
00:07:47 --> 00:07:51 suspect the difference in topography is
00:07:51 --> 00:07:53 uh what causes the difference. Although
00:07:53 --> 00:07:57 they're probably all mish mish mashed up
00:07:57 --> 00:07:59 um
00:07:59 --> 00:08:02 into the same sort of thing, but the the
00:08:02 --> 00:08:06 moon's near side um I think you probably
00:08:06 --> 00:08:08 the way you've put it actually Andrew is
00:08:08 --> 00:08:09 probably more correct. The moon's near
00:08:09 --> 00:08:13 side uh has had much more volcanic
00:08:13 --> 00:08:16 activity than the far side. This is
00:08:16 --> 00:08:17 between three and four billion years
00:08:17 --> 00:08:19 ago. It was highly volcanically active,
00:08:19 --> 00:08:21 which is why we've got all these lava
00:08:21 --> 00:08:23 flows on the near side, which we see as
00:08:23 --> 00:08:25 the maria, the gray the gray patches on
00:08:25 --> 00:08:29 the moon. Um, but the the details of
00:08:29 --> 00:08:32 what these researchers think con
00:08:32 --> 00:08:35 contributes to the the difference in
00:08:35 --> 00:08:38 temperature. Uh, they suggest I might
00:08:38 --> 00:08:40 actually I think this is nature's press
00:08:40 --> 00:08:42 release, so I might just read straight
00:08:42 --> 00:08:47 from it. Um uh they hypothesize that
00:08:47 --> 00:08:49 this thermal difference could be
00:08:49 --> 00:08:51 sustained by radioactive decay of
00:08:51 --> 00:08:54 thorium and titanium within the moon's
00:08:54 --> 00:08:57 near side which could be a remnant of
00:08:57 --> 00:08:59 the volcanic activity that formed the
00:08:59 --> 00:09:01 near side surface 3 to four billion
00:09:01 --> 00:09:03 years ago.
00:09:03 --> 00:09:06 That is really interesting. Yeah, it's I
00:09:06 --> 00:09:09 I'm fascinated fascinated by a couple of
00:09:09 --> 00:09:11 things that we're using old data to make
00:09:11 --> 00:09:13 new discoveries. We've talked about that
00:09:13 --> 00:09:16 in other uh studies that have or papers
00:09:16 --> 00:09:19 that have been released in recent years.
00:09:19 --> 00:09:22 Uh also the fact that um there's effects
00:09:22 --> 00:09:25 on the moon that we see in other parts
00:09:25 --> 00:09:28 of the solar system um with with
00:09:28 --> 00:09:33 variations in uh the way the moons uh
00:09:33 --> 00:09:35 interact with their host planet for
00:09:35 --> 00:09:38 example. I suppose it's a similar
00:09:38 --> 00:09:40 situation is it not? Yes, that's right.
00:09:40 --> 00:09:43 So you've got um and in fact most of
00:09:43 --> 00:09:45 these moons around the certainly the
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 giant planets are uh which is where most
00:09:48 --> 00:09:50 of the moons in the solar system are u
00:09:50 --> 00:09:52 there's only three on the in the inner
00:09:52 --> 00:09:54 solar system ours and Mars is two little
00:09:54 --> 00:09:57 little satellites but places like
00:09:57 --> 00:10:00 Enceladus Ganymede perhaps Kalisto uh
00:10:00 --> 00:10:02 Europa around Jupiter perhaps Titan as
00:10:02 --> 00:10:07 well um they they
00:10:07 --> 00:10:12 uh could do use this technology ology to
00:10:12 --> 00:10:15 actually interpret what's going on
00:10:15 --> 00:10:17 inside these worlds without having to
00:10:17 --> 00:10:19 land a spacecraft on the surface. That's
00:10:19 --> 00:10:22 the that's the the great thing because
00:10:22 --> 00:10:23 putting something into orbit around
00:10:23 --> 00:10:27 Enceladus for example um would be much
00:10:27 --> 00:10:30 more straightforward, much less energy
00:10:30 --> 00:10:32 hungry than putting a spacecraft down
00:10:32 --> 00:10:34 onto the surface where you've got all
00:10:34 --> 00:10:37 the risks of collisions and tipping over
00:10:37 --> 00:10:39 like several of the Luna probes have
00:10:39 --> 00:10:41 done. They've fallen over. Yeah. Uh all
00:10:42 --> 00:10:44 of that is the hazard when you're
00:10:44 --> 00:10:46 landing something on the surface. So
00:10:46 --> 00:10:48 yeah, I um I think it's a it's got a
00:10:48 --> 00:10:52 future now. Um you can as I kind of
00:10:52 --> 00:10:53 mentioned earlier, you can do some of
00:10:54 --> 00:10:56 this kind of work with a single
00:10:56 --> 00:10:58 spacecraft, but if you can launch two
00:10:58 --> 00:11:00 with this microwave microwave bridge
00:11:00 --> 00:11:02 between them, then you can do much much
00:11:02 --> 00:11:06 more as as the the Grail spacecraft
00:11:06 --> 00:11:09 demonstrated. Okay. So um yeah, the moon
00:11:09 --> 00:11:11 is not as it seems, at least on not on
00:11:11 --> 00:11:14 the inside. Well, no, that's right. Or
00:11:14 --> 00:11:17 maybe maybe it is as it seems because
00:11:17 --> 00:11:19 the two sides are so different when you
00:11:19 --> 00:11:21 look at them. As you said, the top the
00:11:21 --> 00:11:23 topography is quite different from one
00:11:23 --> 00:11:25 side to the other. Yeah, it's a great
00:11:25 --> 00:11:27 story. If you'd like to read up on that,
00:11:27 --> 00:11:29 uh you can well you can go find the
00:11:29 --> 00:11:30 paper if you can remember the title of
00:11:30 --> 00:11:32 it cuz it's got more more than three
00:11:32 --> 00:11:34 words in it. So I'm stuffed. But uh
00:11:34 --> 00:11:37 yeah, daily galaxy.com is the website.
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39 daily
00:11:39 --> 00:11:41 galaxy.com. This is Space Nuts with
00:11:41 --> 00:11:47 Andrew Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.
00:11:47 --> 00:11:52 Three, two, one. Space Nuts. Um, Fred, I
00:11:52 --> 00:11:55 neglected to mention my office
00:11:55 --> 00:11:57 background at the beginning. Uh, if I
00:11:57 --> 00:11:59 just put my thumb over the camera,
00:11:59 --> 00:12:02 people on YouTube will see a massive
00:12:02 --> 00:12:04 mountain there. That's the Fugo volcano
00:12:04 --> 00:12:06 in Guatemala. I took that photo on the
00:12:06 --> 00:12:10 7th of April. And uh Judy and I have a
00:12:10 --> 00:12:12 history of visiting volcanoes, getting
00:12:12 --> 00:12:13 home, and then finding out they started
00:12:13 --> 00:12:15 erupting. And that's exactly what's
00:12:15 --> 00:12:17 happened with Fugo. So if you're on
00:12:17 --> 00:12:19 YouTube and you're watching us when
00:12:19 --> 00:12:21 we're finished, go and have a look at
00:12:21 --> 00:12:23 some of the eruption footage from the
00:12:23 --> 00:12:25 Fugo volcano in Guatemala at the moment.
00:12:25 --> 00:12:28 It is spectacular. We had to drive
00:12:28 --> 00:12:31 between three volcanoes to get to the
00:12:31 --> 00:12:34 township of Antigua. And you could see
00:12:34 --> 00:12:37 these things for miles. I mean, they're
00:12:37 --> 00:12:39 strata volcanoes. They are absolutely
00:12:39 --> 00:12:43 enormous. They're around 12, 13 ft
00:12:43 --> 00:12:47 at the peak above sea level. Um, and
00:12:47 --> 00:12:49 they are spectacular. And we literally
00:12:49 --> 00:12:51 had to drive between two of them to get
00:12:51 --> 00:12:54 to the town. That one was on our left
00:12:54 --> 00:12:57 and the Awa volcano was on our right.
00:12:57 --> 00:12:59 Uh, and the town is in the foothills of
00:12:59 --> 00:13:03 the um the two nearest volcanoes. And
00:13:03 --> 00:13:06 it's just an awe inspiring site. But um
00:13:06 --> 00:13:08 I just thought it was funny that um well
00:13:08 --> 00:13:10 maybe not funny haha but funny that we
00:13:10 --> 00:13:13 went to Hawaii got home and Kilawea
00:13:13 --> 00:13:15 erupted. Happens a lot. Uh went to
00:13:15 --> 00:13:18 Vanuatu Mount Yasa got home it erupted
00:13:18 --> 00:13:20 and stopped air traffic for a couple of
00:13:20 --> 00:13:22 weeks and now this one's erupting a
00:13:22 --> 00:13:25 month after we were there. So we're not
00:13:25 --> 00:13:26 going to be invited back I don't think.
00:13:26 --> 00:13:30 But uh Fugo's got a history though. It
00:13:30 --> 00:13:32 erupts quite often. But I just thought
00:13:32 --> 00:13:33 people would be interested to see a
00:13:33 --> 00:13:35 photo of it. Uh, as you know, I'm a
00:13:36 --> 00:13:38 volcano junkie.
00:13:38 --> 00:13:40 So, when we were in Iceland earlier in
00:13:40 --> 00:13:43 the year, uh, the Rakenis Peninsula had
00:13:43 --> 00:13:46 just erupted as well. Yeah. Well, here
00:13:46 --> 00:13:48 there was a lot of steam coming up from
00:13:48 --> 00:13:49 uh from the, you know, the fishes in the
00:13:50 --> 00:13:52 ground. Yeah. In the next few months,
00:13:52 --> 00:13:55 we'll be v visiting the Canary Islands.
00:13:55 --> 00:13:58 Ah, so yeah. So, that one's got an
00:13:58 --> 00:14:00 active volcano. And we're visiting
00:14:00 --> 00:14:04 Iceland as well. Um, yeah. could could
00:14:04 --> 00:14:07 have some stories to tell. Yeah, could.
00:14:07 --> 00:14:09 Okay, Fred, let's move on to our next
00:14:09 --> 00:14:13 story. And this one is about yet again
00:14:13 --> 00:14:17 uh the Hubble tension, the the quirk of
00:14:17 --> 00:14:20 uh space that we can't quite get our
00:14:20 --> 00:14:22 heads around. We can't solve the
00:14:22 --> 00:14:24 differentials or the problems. Many are
00:14:24 --> 00:14:27 saying, look, it's it's natural, but uh
00:14:27 --> 00:14:30 now another another Hubble tension
00:14:30 --> 00:14:33 theory. G, that's hard to say. um is uh
00:14:33 --> 00:14:36 is making its way into various papers.
00:14:36 --> 00:14:38 Uh one in particular, I suspect because
00:14:38 --> 00:14:42 um now they're talking about um
00:14:42 --> 00:14:46 evolution in dark matter. This sounds
00:14:46 --> 00:14:49 like pie in the sky type stuff, but um
00:14:50 --> 00:14:51 we've got to we've got to come up with
00:14:51 --> 00:14:53 answers. The only way is is to publish
00:14:53 --> 00:14:57 papers with theories and, you know, toss
00:14:57 --> 00:14:59 it around.
00:14:59 --> 00:15:02 Indeed. That's right. like like a salad.
00:15:02 --> 00:15:04 A space
00:15:04 --> 00:15:05 salad.
00:15:05 --> 00:15:08 Um yeah, I've just um I'm I'm hesitating
00:15:08 --> 00:15:10 because I've just seen who one of the
00:15:10 --> 00:15:13 authors of this paper is.
00:15:13 --> 00:15:16 Uh it's a scientist who's known for
00:15:16 --> 00:15:20 provocative papers. He's Avi Lurb and
00:15:20 --> 00:15:23 he's at Harvard Smithsonian
00:15:23 --> 00:15:27 uh um center for astrophysics. So, uh,
00:15:27 --> 00:15:29 the the paper that we're talking about
00:15:29 --> 00:15:31 is called evolving dark energy or
00:15:31 --> 00:15:33 evolving dark
00:15:33 --> 00:15:36 matter. Um, and, uh, it is, this is
00:15:36 --> 00:15:39 really esoteric stuff, Andrew. We're
00:15:39 --> 00:15:40 always when we're talking about this
00:15:40 --> 00:15:44 stuff, we're we're just glossing over uh
00:15:44 --> 00:15:48 a lot of really detailed
00:15:48 --> 00:15:51 uh science that uh it goes into realms
00:15:51 --> 00:15:54 that um even I struggle with and I'm not
00:15:54 --> 00:15:57 actually a cosmologist, which is why,
00:15:57 --> 00:15:58 but I'm supposed to know my way around
00:15:58 --> 00:16:01 some of these topics uh better than
00:16:01 --> 00:16:05 perhaps the person in the street is. Um
00:16:06 --> 00:16:09 and it's uh it's this comes down to
00:16:09 --> 00:16:11 something called the equation of state
00:16:11 --> 00:16:13 which you and I haven't talked about but
00:16:13 --> 00:16:16 the equation of state is a parameter in
00:16:16 --> 00:16:18 the universe or it's a parameter
00:16:18 --> 00:16:21 generally it comes from thermodynamics
00:16:21 --> 00:16:25 uh where which essentially um
00:16:25 --> 00:16:28 characterizes as the name almost implies
00:16:28 --> 00:16:31 it characterizes the overall behavior of
00:16:31 --> 00:16:33 the universe the equation of state okay
00:16:33 --> 00:16:36 symbolized by the the character
00:16:36 --> 00:16:37 W.
00:16:37 --> 00:16:42 Um, so, uh, the the the work that's
00:16:42 --> 00:16:45 being reported here, uh, and as I've
00:16:45 --> 00:16:49 said, it's on a on a there's a there's a
00:16:49 --> 00:16:52 basically a a pre-print, as we used to
00:16:52 --> 00:16:55 call them. Uh this is a a paper that's
00:16:55 --> 00:16:59 not yet been refereed uh which is going
00:16:59 --> 00:17:02 to go into I can't see what journal it's
00:17:02 --> 00:17:08 aiming for but uh it is called uh
00:17:08 --> 00:17:10 essentially the the title of the paper
00:17:10 --> 00:17:12 evolving dark energy or evolving dark
00:17:12 --> 00:17:14 matter. I'm going to read you the the
00:17:14 --> 00:17:18 abstract. Okay. um because that kind of
00:17:18 --> 00:17:20 tells the story even if you don't know
00:17:20 --> 00:17:24 what the details are. We show that the
00:17:24 --> 00:17:26 latest empirical constraints on
00:17:26 --> 00:17:30 cosmology and by that they mean measured
00:17:30 --> 00:17:32 uh from a combination of DESI that's the
00:17:32 --> 00:17:35 dark energy survey instrument CMBB
00:17:35 --> 00:17:37 that's the cosmic microwave background
00:17:37 --> 00:17:40 and supernova data that's exploding
00:17:40 --> 00:17:42 stars they've taken all this data
00:17:42 --> 00:17:44 together the empirical constraints on
00:17:44 --> 00:17:47 cosmology from that combination can be
00:17:47 --> 00:17:50 accounted for if a small component of
00:17:50 --> 00:17:54 dark matter has an evolving and
00:17:54 --> 00:17:57 oscillating equation of state within the
00:17:57 --> 00:17:59 range minus one is greater than less
00:18:00 --> 00:18:02 than w which is less than one. That's
00:18:02 --> 00:18:05 the range minus1 to 1 is somewhere where
00:18:05 --> 00:18:08 this equation of state parameter w lies.
00:18:08 --> 00:18:10 From a fundamental physics perspective,
00:18:10 --> 00:18:13 this interpretation is more appealing
00:18:13 --> 00:18:15 than an evolving phantom dark energy
00:18:15 --> 00:18:18 with w less than minus one which
00:18:18 --> 00:18:22 violates the null energy condition. So
00:18:22 --> 00:18:25 the in a sense this paper is kind of in
00:18:25 --> 00:18:28 response to what we're seeing from the
00:18:28 --> 00:18:31 latest data actually from DESI the dark
00:18:31 --> 00:18:36 energy survey um which suggests that
00:18:36 --> 00:18:40 dark energy is uh getting less or at
00:18:40 --> 00:18:41 least what it suggests is the
00:18:42 --> 00:18:44 acceleration of the universe's expansion
00:18:44 --> 00:18:47 is getting less. In other words, the
00:18:47 --> 00:18:49 expansion, which we know is accelerating
00:18:49 --> 00:18:51 because that's been well measured, but
00:18:51 --> 00:18:54 the suggestion is that that acceleration
00:18:54 --> 00:18:57 is slowing down. So, as time goes on, it
00:18:57 --> 00:19:00 will be accelerating at a lower rate.
00:19:00 --> 00:19:02 What they're saying is uh when you look
00:19:02 --> 00:19:05 at the sort of theory that doesn't make
00:19:05 --> 00:19:08 sense, but it makes more sense if
00:19:08 --> 00:19:12 something is going on with dark matter.
00:19:12 --> 00:19:16 that dark matter is um is it self
00:19:16 --> 00:19:20 evolving. Now that suggests and they
00:19:20 --> 00:19:22 apparently explore this in the paper. I
00:19:22 --> 00:19:24 haven't read the paper but they they
00:19:24 --> 00:19:26 explore this that suggests that dark
00:19:26 --> 00:19:29 matter is something different from what
00:19:29 --> 00:19:31 we think it is because we imagine dark
00:19:31 --> 00:19:34 matter as being some subatomic particle
00:19:34 --> 00:19:37 uh which is as yet unknown which does
00:19:37 --> 00:19:39 not interact with normal matter at all
00:19:39 --> 00:19:42 which is why we can't see it. uh and all
00:19:42 --> 00:19:44 it reveals itself by is its gravity.
00:19:44 --> 00:19:46 That's that's the parameters that we
00:19:46 --> 00:19:48 understand dark matter to be. But what
00:19:48 --> 00:19:52 they're suggestion suggesting is that
00:19:52 --> 00:19:55 this is something even more exotic than
00:19:55 --> 00:19:57 we have been imagining
00:19:57 --> 00:20:01 uh because its parameters change its
00:20:01 --> 00:20:04 phenomena change uh and that leads to a
00:20:04 --> 00:20:07 changed equation of state the the W
00:20:07 --> 00:20:09 parameter.
00:20:09 --> 00:20:14 So, and and they they actually uh
00:20:14 --> 00:20:16 suggest that actually there's there's
00:20:16 --> 00:20:18 some sort of oscillation going on in it
00:20:18 --> 00:20:20 as well, not just dark matter. Uh
00:20:20 --> 00:20:22 there's a very nice article on
00:20:22 --> 00:20:24 physicsf.org
00:20:24 --> 00:20:28 uh by Brian Kerbaline. Uh I'm going to
00:20:28 --> 00:20:32 read a par a paragraph for it.
00:20:32 --> 00:20:34 Um in fact, I'm going to read a couple.
00:20:34 --> 00:20:37 Let me just uh let me just read from
00:20:38 --> 00:20:39 this because I think that's going to
00:20:39 --> 00:20:42 explain it better than me waffling on.
00:20:42 --> 00:20:44 Uh in work published on the archive
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46 preprint server, the authors look at
00:20:46 --> 00:20:48 both evolving dark energy and evolving
00:20:48 --> 00:20:51 dark matter and argue that the latter is
00:20:51 --> 00:20:52 a much better fit to the observational
00:20:52 --> 00:20:54 data. The first thing they note is that
00:20:54 --> 00:20:56 the two models are somewhat related
00:20:56 --> 00:20:58 since the evolution of the cosmos
00:20:58 --> 00:21:00 depends in part on the ratio of dark
00:21:00 --> 00:21:03 energy to matter density. A model with
00:21:03 --> 00:21:05 constant dark matter, which is what we
00:21:05 --> 00:21:07 have at the moment, an evolving dark
00:21:07 --> 00:21:10 energy, uh, will always appear similar
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13 to a model with evolving dark matter and
00:21:13 --> 00:21:15 a constant dark energy. It's a good
00:21:15 --> 00:21:17 point. They then go on to explore the
00:21:17 --> 00:21:19 idea of some kind of exotic dark matter,
00:21:19 --> 00:21:21 one that has a changeable equation of
00:21:21 --> 00:21:23 state. To match observation, the dark
00:21:23 --> 00:21:26 matter equation of state must oscillate
00:21:26 --> 00:21:29 in time. This isn't an outlandish
00:21:29 --> 00:21:31 notion.
00:21:31 --> 00:21:32 I think they're trying to convince us
00:21:32 --> 00:21:35 here in space.org. Yeah. Neutrinos have
00:21:35 --> 00:21:37 mass and don't interact strongly with
00:21:37 --> 00:21:39 light. While they can't account for all
00:21:39 --> 00:21:41 the dark matter in the universe, they
00:21:41 --> 00:21:43 are a form of hot dark matter and
00:21:43 --> 00:21:47 neutrinos undergo mass oscillation.
00:21:47 --> 00:21:49 Perhaps cold and dark matter particles
00:21:49 --> 00:21:51 undergo sorry perhaps cold dark matter
00:21:51 --> 00:21:54 particles undergo a similar
00:21:54 --> 00:21:58 oilitary effect. The authors find that
00:21:58 --> 00:22:00 the best fit to observational data is a
00:22:00 --> 00:22:02 universe where about 15% of the cold
00:22:02 --> 00:22:05 dark matter is oscillatory and the
00:22:05 --> 00:22:09 remaining 85% is standard dark matter.
00:22:09 --> 00:22:11 This would allow for the Hubble tension
00:22:11 --> 00:22:14 to be covered while still matching the
00:22:14 --> 00:22:17 dark matter observations we have. And I
00:22:17 --> 00:22:19 love the last paragraph. Yeah, I do too.
00:22:19 --> 00:22:21 I was just reading it. It should be
00:22:21 --> 00:22:24 stressed that this work presents a toy
00:22:24 --> 00:22:26 model. As the authors themselves note,
00:22:26 --> 00:22:28 the work is a broad concept that does
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 not pin down specific constraints for
00:22:30 --> 00:22:31 dark matter particles, but the work does
00:22:31 --> 00:22:33 open the door to a broader range of dark
00:22:33 --> 00:22:35 matter models. At this point, evolving
00:22:36 --> 00:22:37 dark matter is worth considering. Well,
00:22:37 --> 00:22:39 I agree with that. I think everything's
00:22:39 --> 00:22:41 worth calling. I was going to ask you
00:22:41 --> 00:22:43 where you stand on this, and if it's
00:22:43 --> 00:22:45 worth considering, then obviously it is.
00:22:45 --> 00:22:49 But uh it just adds another
00:22:49 --> 00:22:52 potential explanation of something we
00:22:52 --> 00:22:55 know very little about and Yep. And we
00:22:55 --> 00:22:58 worry about a lot especially on space
00:22:58 --> 00:23:00 nuts. Yes. Yes. And we get a lot of
00:23:00 --> 00:23:02 questions about it and so a lot of
00:23:02 --> 00:23:05 people thinking about this stuff if it's
00:23:05 --> 00:23:08 if it's in fact stuff. Yes. Well, yes,
00:23:08 --> 00:23:09 that's right. It could could be
00:23:09 --> 00:23:11 something other than stuff. Yes. Yes. So
00:23:11 --> 00:23:14 um yeah, it's a a really interesting
00:23:14 --> 00:23:17 idea and well I suppose uh it'll get
00:23:17 --> 00:23:19 tossed around and people will come up
00:23:19 --> 00:23:21 with other explanations. But the thing
00:23:21 --> 00:23:24 is a paper like this even if it's wrong
00:23:24 --> 00:23:27 may spawn a level of thinking that might
00:23:27 --> 00:23:28 send us down a path where we might
00:23:28 --> 00:23:30 eventually figure it out. I mean that's
00:23:30 --> 00:23:33 another possibility. Uh that's that's
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36 true. That's correct. Uh that's and and
00:23:36 --> 00:23:38 that's the way science works as well.
00:23:38 --> 00:23:40 Exactly as you said. Yes indeed. All
00:23:40 --> 00:23:43 right. Uh, as Fred said, you can read
00:23:43 --> 00:23:45 all about it at the fizz.org website.
00:23:45 --> 00:23:47 That's
00:23:47 --> 00:23:49 phys.org. Or you can read the published
00:23:49 --> 00:23:52 paper on the archive reprint server if
00:23:52 --> 00:23:54 you like. This is Space Nuts. Andrew
00:23:54 --> 00:23:58 Dunley here, Fred Watson there.
00:23:58 --> 00:24:00 Okay, we checked all four systems and
00:24:00 --> 00:24:03 being with the Space Nuts. Our final
00:24:03 --> 00:24:07 topic today, Fred, uh is a really
00:24:07 --> 00:24:10 interesting one and it is going to take
00:24:10 --> 00:24:13 us to the Kyper belt. So, uh tighten up
00:24:13 --> 00:24:15 your buckle and get ready for this one
00:24:15 --> 00:24:18 because we think there has been
00:24:18 --> 00:24:21 discovered a triple system in the Kyper
00:24:21 --> 00:24:23 belt. Now, when we talk about the Kyper
00:24:23 --> 00:24:26 belt, we don't really we've we've only
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 been there a couple of times, um, fairly
00:24:29 --> 00:24:31 recent missions in the last decade or
00:24:31 --> 00:24:34 so, but we've only had, uh, close-up
00:24:34 --> 00:24:37 observations of two objects in the Kyper
00:24:37 --> 00:24:40 belt. So, this discovery was actually
00:24:40 --> 00:24:44 made not by either of those probes, but
00:24:44 --> 00:24:47 or or the probe in question. Um, it was
00:24:47 --> 00:24:50 made from Earth. Am I correct? Yes,
00:24:50 --> 00:24:53 that's right. uh using the Hubble Space
00:24:53 --> 00:24:58 Telescope. Yeah. Which is um you know
00:24:58 --> 00:25:01 still going strong and um still a
00:25:01 --> 00:25:04 fantastic resource
00:25:04 --> 00:25:08 uh given that it's now 35 years in
00:25:08 --> 00:25:11 space. Yes, it is amazing. That's right.
00:25:11 --> 00:25:14 Uh so um and again this is a team of
00:25:14 --> 00:25:16 researchers from NASA. Um what they've
00:25:16 --> 00:25:19 been doing is looking through uh Hubble
00:25:19 --> 00:25:22 telescope data at this very distant
00:25:22 --> 00:25:26 object uh which is uh it's a an
00:25:26 --> 00:25:28 asteroid. So it's got a number
00:25:28 --> 00:25:32 148780. Uh and it's known as Aljira. Uh
00:25:32 --> 00:25:38 that's its name. Uh and they they they
00:25:38 --> 00:25:41 haven't seen the three bodies that they
00:25:41 --> 00:25:43 now think make it up, but they've seen
00:25:43 --> 00:25:45 two. Wait for it. Dad joke coming. Oh,
00:25:45 --> 00:25:48 good. Okay. They've seen two of them. I
00:25:48 --> 00:25:49 was going So, they haven't seen the
00:25:49 --> 00:25:52 three bodies. That's a problem. Oh,
00:25:52 --> 00:25:57 there we go. Gosh. Love it. Love it.
00:25:57 --> 00:25:59 I I don't understand. You must rehearse
00:25:59 --> 00:26:01 our conversations weeks in advance,
00:26:01 --> 00:26:04 Andrew, to get No, this the scary part
00:26:04 --> 00:26:07 is this garbage just pops in there. Yes.
00:26:07 --> 00:26:10 At random moments. It used to happen
00:26:10 --> 00:26:12 when I was on the radio. I'd just be
00:26:12 --> 00:26:14 talking about something in this in a
00:26:14 --> 00:26:16 little voice and go, "Hey, tell this
00:26:16 --> 00:26:18 joke." Yeah. And then at the end of it,
00:26:18 --> 00:26:20 you think, "God, I wish I hadn't told
00:26:20 --> 00:26:22 God, I wish I hadn't said that." Yeah.
00:26:22 --> 00:26:28 Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, um uh so it's uh it
00:26:28 --> 00:26:31 it basically is uh new research and so
00:26:31 --> 00:26:34 so they can see two they can detect that
00:26:34 --> 00:26:35 there are two
00:26:35 --> 00:26:38 objects orbiting one another. I see the
00:26:38 --> 00:26:40 butt.
00:26:40 --> 00:26:44 The the butt is Yes. Yes. Um the butt is
00:26:44 --> 00:26:46 that it looks as though one of them is
00:26:46 --> 00:26:48 actually a pair of objects. That's the
00:26:48 --> 00:26:52 trick. So we've got two things that have
00:26:52 --> 00:26:55 been seen, but one of them is probably a
00:26:55 --> 00:27:00 double. And they've had to use the very
00:27:00 --> 00:27:04 detailed uh measurements of the way the
00:27:04 --> 00:27:07 object that they can see orbits the
00:27:07 --> 00:27:09 other one. the way that that orbit
00:27:09 --> 00:27:12 changes uh that is what tells you that
00:27:12 --> 00:27:15 the central object if I can put it that
00:27:15 --> 00:27:18 way might actually be two um and so it's
00:27:18 --> 00:27:22 the the outer object uh its orbit
00:27:22 --> 00:27:25 changes over time and it's that change
00:27:25 --> 00:27:28 uh that allows the deduction that the
00:27:28 --> 00:27:32 central object if I put it that way
00:27:32 --> 00:27:35 is it well they say it's either
00:27:35 --> 00:27:38 extremely elongated or it's two separate
00:27:38 --> 00:27:41 objects and that um you know the odds
00:27:41 --> 00:27:44 are that it is actually probably two. Uh
00:27:44 --> 00:27:47 often though we've got this situation
00:27:47 --> 00:27:51 especially with these um distant
00:27:51 --> 00:27:54 asteroids where you have clearly
00:27:54 --> 00:27:56 something that has been a binary two
00:27:56 --> 00:27:58 objects in orbit around one another but
00:27:58 --> 00:28:02 they've gradually uh collapsed together
00:28:02 --> 00:28:04 not in a violent way and wound up in
00:28:04 --> 00:28:06 contact which is something we call
00:28:06 --> 00:28:09 believe it or not a contact binary and
00:28:09 --> 00:28:12 Aricoth uh it's one of the Kyper belt
00:28:12 --> 00:28:14 objects that you actually just refer
00:28:14 --> 00:28:15 referred to. It's beyond the orbit of
00:28:16 --> 00:28:18 Pluto. It was visited by New Horizons.
00:28:18 --> 00:28:20 Uh when we saw it, it looked like a
00:28:20 --> 00:28:22 snowman and that was very seasonal
00:28:22 --> 00:28:23 because I think it was Christmas time
00:28:23 --> 00:28:26 when it was uh when it was discovered.
00:28:26 --> 00:28:29 But the analysis of New Horizon's data
00:28:29 --> 00:28:31 as it flew past Aracoth showed that it
00:28:31 --> 00:28:33 wasn't actually two balls joined
00:28:33 --> 00:28:34 together. It was two pancakes joined
00:28:34 --> 00:28:37 together uh rimto- rim. Uh so that it
00:28:37 --> 00:28:39 actually looked like a snowman, but from
00:28:39 --> 00:28:40 the edge on it, it looked a lot more
00:28:40 --> 00:28:43 like two pancakes stuck together. Uh but
00:28:43 --> 00:28:45 that's a common phenomenon. Two objects,
00:28:45 --> 00:28:47 whatever their shape is, coming together
00:28:47 --> 00:28:51 gently and actually um basically
00:28:51 --> 00:28:52 cementing themselves together just by
00:28:52 --> 00:28:54 gravity, but then the sort of gap
00:28:54 --> 00:28:56 between them fills in and you end up
00:28:56 --> 00:28:58 with something that looks like a peanut.
00:28:58 --> 00:29:02 Uh, so I think it's still possible that
00:29:02 --> 00:29:05 Algeria could have that sort of shape,
00:29:05 --> 00:29:08 but they actually say the the research
00:29:08 --> 00:29:11 team who's done this, they say that the
00:29:11 --> 00:29:13 triple system actually fits the data
00:29:13 --> 00:29:17 best. Um, it fits it better than a
00:29:17 --> 00:29:20 contact binary or a really elongated
00:29:20 --> 00:29:22 central object. So triple system is what
00:29:22 --> 00:29:26 we believe it is. Uh it's a very nice
00:29:26 --> 00:29:28 target for a future mission to the outer
00:29:28 --> 00:29:30 solar system, but that's not going to
00:29:30 --> 00:29:32 happen anytime soon. No. Uh but yeah, so
00:29:32 --> 00:29:35 um very nice discovery. Triple systems
00:29:35 --> 00:29:37 are rare. That's why that's why it's uh
00:29:37 --> 00:29:39 you know, it's making the headlines.
00:29:39 --> 00:29:42 These are rare phenomena. Binaries are
00:29:42 --> 00:29:44 very common. In fact, probably most
00:29:44 --> 00:29:46 objects out there in this outer solar
00:29:46 --> 00:29:48 system might be binaries, but triple
00:29:48 --> 00:29:51 systems are rare. Uh interestingly this
00:29:51 --> 00:29:54 um rock if you want to call it that or
00:29:54 --> 00:29:57 or it system Algera is much much bigger
00:29:57 --> 00:30:01 than Araoth. It's uh about 124 miles
00:30:01 --> 00:30:03 wide or 200 kilometers. That that's a
00:30:03 --> 00:30:06 big chunk. Yes it is. Yeah it's a lot a
00:30:06 --> 00:30:08 lot more substantial than Aricoth which
00:30:08 --> 00:30:09 was only if I remember right it was less
00:30:09 --> 00:30:11 than a kilometer I think. Uh it's
00:30:12 --> 00:30:14 amazing that they found it at all to to
00:30:14 --> 00:30:16 give it give New Horizons a target
00:30:16 --> 00:30:18 beyond Pluto.
00:30:18 --> 00:30:21 Yeah. Um, yeah, as you say, we're
00:30:21 --> 00:30:22 probably not going to go back out there
00:30:22 --> 00:30:25 in a hurry. These missions are very
00:30:25 --> 00:30:27 long- winded because of the distances
00:30:27 --> 00:30:32 involved. We're talking what um 30 or 30
00:30:32 --> 00:30:34 AU or something. Yeah, I think this is
00:30:34 --> 00:30:37 more I think it's more like 45 AU. Wow.
00:30:37 --> 00:30:40 So, it's Yeah, AU is an astronomical
00:30:40 --> 00:30:43 unit. 150 million kilometers. Yeah,
00:30:43 --> 00:30:47 that's a long way away. Um but yeah,
00:30:47 --> 00:30:49 it's it's probably an area of our solar
00:30:49 --> 00:30:51 system, even though it's so remote, that
00:30:51 --> 00:30:54 we need to learn more about because um
00:30:54 --> 00:30:55 you
00:30:55 --> 00:30:57 know, some of these rocks get bumped and
00:30:58 --> 00:31:00 end up heading our way. Uh yes, that's
00:31:00 --> 00:31:03 right. In the in the Yeah, they do. Or
00:31:03 --> 00:31:04 um you know, gravitationally interact
00:31:04 --> 00:31:06 with other objects. Uh but you're right,
00:31:06 --> 00:31:09 it it's it's um in some ways it's the
00:31:09 --> 00:31:11 last frontier. is completing the the
00:31:11 --> 00:31:14 evidence for the way we think our solar
00:31:14 --> 00:31:18 system formed by this icy uh dust and
00:31:18 --> 00:31:21 gas cloud that collapsed. And a lot of
00:31:21 --> 00:31:23 this stuff is the last vestigages, the
00:31:23 --> 00:31:26 outer the outer vestigages of those um
00:31:26 --> 00:31:28 you know those uh objects that
00:31:28 --> 00:31:30 eventually went up to make the inner
00:31:30 --> 00:31:32 planets. These are these are worlds that
00:31:32 --> 00:31:34 have never been heated. And that's the,
00:31:34 --> 00:31:36 you know, the planets have been they've
00:31:36 --> 00:31:39 been bombarded by gravitational
00:31:39 --> 00:31:41 interactions by collisions and and
00:31:42 --> 00:31:43 impacts and things of that sort. So they
00:31:43 --> 00:31:46 they're hot. Uh these worlds have always
00:31:46 --> 00:31:48 been cold and that's why they're so
00:31:48 --> 00:31:49 interesting because they're sort of the
00:31:49 --> 00:31:51 fossil of the solar systems earliest
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53 history. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess
00:31:53 --> 00:31:55 the time will come where we do extensive
00:31:55 --> 00:31:57 studies, but uh I think we'll have to
00:31:57 --> 00:32:00 get better spacecraft and maybe use
00:32:00 --> 00:32:02 those um those um super highways you
00:32:02 --> 00:32:04 were talking about. Yeah. Yeah, that's
00:32:04 --> 00:32:06 right. Get out there and have a look.
00:32:06 --> 00:32:08 Yes. Uh if you'd like to read up on
00:32:08 --> 00:32:09 that, you can do that at the NASA
00:32:10 --> 00:32:12 science website or you can go uh to the
00:32:12 --> 00:32:14 study itself which was published in the
00:32:14 --> 00:32:17 planetary science journal. Uh that
00:32:17 --> 00:32:20 brings us to the end. Fred, thank you so
00:32:20 --> 00:32:23 much. Uh it's a pleasure, Andrew. Um, a
00:32:23 --> 00:32:25 nice surprise to see you and um, always
00:32:25 --> 00:32:27 a pleasure to talk. Good to see you,
00:32:27 --> 00:32:29 too. And we'll catch you on the very
00:32:30 --> 00:32:31 next episode. Don't forget to visit us
00:32:31 --> 00:32:33 online. In the meantime, we've got
00:32:33 --> 00:32:35 plenty of platforms. We're on Instagram.
00:32:35 --> 00:32:37 We're on YouTube. We're on Facebook.
00:32:37 --> 00:32:40 We're on our own website,
00:32:40 --> 00:32:42 spacenutsodcast.com. Spacenuts.io.
00:32:42 --> 00:32:44 Either URL will take you to the same
00:32:44 --> 00:32:46 place and have a look around while
00:32:46 --> 00:32:49 you're there. and uh Hugh in the studio.
00:32:49 --> 00:32:51 He did actually turn up briefly today,
00:32:51 --> 00:32:54 but he forgot to put on his Kyper belt
00:32:54 --> 00:32:55 and his pants fell fell down, so he had
00:32:55 --> 00:32:56 to make a run for
00:32:57 --> 00:32:59 it. From me, Andrew Dunley. Oh, it's
00:32:59 --> 00:33:01 terrible. Uh, thanks for your company.
00:33:01 --> 00:33:03 We'll see you on the next episode of
00:33:03 --> 00:33:05 Space Nuts. Bye-bye. Space Nuts, you'll
00:33:06 --> 00:33:09 be listening to the Space Nuts podcast,
00:33:10 --> 00:33:13 available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
00:33:13 --> 00:33:15 iHeart Radio, or your favorite podcast
00:33:15 --> 00:33:18 player. You can also stream on demand at
00:33:18 --> 00:33:20 byes.com. This has been another quality
00:33:20 --> 00:33:25 podcast production from byes.com.