One Million Satellites, Space Mushrooms, and Martian Shorelines
In this action-packed episode of Space Nuts , hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson explore a variety of cosmic topics that will leave you both informed and entertained. From the ambitious plan to launch a million satellites to the intriguing discovery of Martian shorelines, this episode covers the latest in space exploration and technology.
Episode Highlights:
- One Million Satellites: Andrew and Fred dive into the shocking news of SpaceX's application to launch up to one million satellites. They discuss the implications of this vast constellation on astronomical observations and the potential challenges it poses for the night sky.
- Good News from Chile: The hosts celebrate the cancellation of a large energy project in Chile that threatened to introduce light pollution near some of the world's most significant telescopes. They commend the decision to prioritize astronomical integrity over industrial development.
- Artemis II Launch Delay: Following the latest updates on NASA's Artemis II mission, Andrew and Fred discuss a hydrogen leak that has postponed the launch. They reflect on the importance of safety in space exploration and the challenges faced by the Artemis program.
- Space Mushrooms: In a delightful twist, the hosts share a fascinating story about astronauts who grew mushrooms in space and enjoyed them upon their return. They highlight the significance of this experiment for future long-duration space missions and food sustainability.
- Perseverance Goes AI: The episode wraps up with a discussion on the Perseverance rover's recent milestone of executing its first autonomous drive on Mars, planned entirely by artificial intelligence. Andrew and Fred explore what this means for future Mars exploration and the potential benefits of AI in space missions.
- Martian Shorelines: Finally, the hosts reveal exciting new evidence of ancient shorelines on Mars, suggesting that large bodies of water once existed on the planet. This discovery expands the timeline for potential life on Mars and adds to the growing body of evidence supporting a more Earth-like past for our neighboring planet.
For more Space Nuts, including our continuously updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. (https://www.spacenutspodcast.com/) Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on Facebook, Instagram, and more. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favorite platform.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
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Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/31531469?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:01 Hello again. Thanks for joining us. This
00:00:01 --> 00:00:04 is Space Nuts. My name is Andrew Dunky.
00:00:04 --> 00:00:06 Thanks for joining us. We've got a big
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 program today. It is jam-packed. We've
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 got 27
00:00:10 --> 00:00:15 at least 27 maybe six stories. Um
00:00:15 --> 00:00:16 here's one. I I don't know if you heard
00:00:16 --> 00:00:19 the song um 1 million bicycles in
00:00:19 --> 00:00:21 Beijing. It probably wasn't a big hit,
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 but now we're talking 1 million
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 satellites in space. Yep. It's it's a
00:00:27 --> 00:00:29 possible thing. Uh, some good news out
00:00:29 --> 00:00:31 of Chile though. We'll talk about that.
00:00:31 --> 00:00:33 Artemus 2, not bad news. Probably not
00:00:33 --> 00:00:36 surprising news. A launch delay. Space
00:00:36 --> 00:00:39 mushrooms. Yes, they are real and they
00:00:39 --> 00:00:41 are very yummy. Apparently, uh,
00:00:41 --> 00:00:45 Perseverance is going AI and they have
00:00:45 --> 00:00:47 discovered or confirmed a Martian
00:00:47 --> 00:00:49 shoreline. We'll talk about all of that
00:00:49 --> 00:00:52 on this episode of Space Nuts.
00:00:52 --> 00:00:57 >> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9
00:00:57 --> 00:00:58 Ignition sequence start.
00:00:58 --> 00:00:59 >> Space Nuts.
00:00:59 --> 00:01:02 >> 5 4 3 2
00:01:02 --> 00:01:04 >> 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1
00:01:04 --> 00:01:05 >> Space Nuts.
00:01:05 --> 00:01:08 >> Astronauts report. It feels good.
00:01:08 --> 00:01:11 >> And taking a break from a little sojourn
00:01:11 --> 00:01:13 to a horrible part of the world in
00:01:13 --> 00:01:15 Australia is Professor Fred Watson,
00:01:15 --> 00:01:17 astronomer at large. Hello, Fred.
00:01:18 --> 00:01:20 >> Hello. Hello, Andrew. Greetings from
00:01:20 --> 00:01:21 Nelson Bay.
00:01:21 --> 00:01:23 >> Yeah, dreadful, dreadful place. I I
00:01:23 --> 00:01:25 spent much of my youth in Nelson Bay,
00:01:25 --> 00:01:28 just north of Newcastle. It's just um it
00:01:28 --> 00:01:30 was a sleepy little fishing village when
00:01:30 --> 00:01:33 I used to go there, but now it's just um
00:01:34 --> 00:01:35 nothing like that.
00:01:35 --> 00:01:37 >> Well, it's been discovered, hasn't it?
00:01:37 --> 00:01:39 That's the thing. You know, two two
00:01:39 --> 00:01:43 hours from Sydney, it's uh and what,
00:01:43 --> 00:01:44 half an hour from Newcastle. It's not
00:01:44 --> 00:01:46 really
00:01:46 --> 00:01:49 >> It's It's bound to be a target. And it's
00:01:49 --> 00:01:50 still got its charm, though. I have to
00:01:50 --> 00:01:52 say as we were talking a few minutes
00:01:52 --> 00:01:54 ago, I've been coming here for 43 years
00:01:54 --> 00:01:57 nearly. In fact, it is it's 43 years and
00:01:57 --> 00:02:00 uh and uh it's as you exactly as you've
00:02:00 --> 00:02:03 said, it's very very different, but it's
00:02:03 --> 00:02:05 still uh geographically it's a lovely
00:02:05 --> 00:02:08 spot with Port Stevens, this huge
00:02:08 --> 00:02:12 expanse of water uh with um you know,
00:02:12 --> 00:02:15 islands in it and uh hills all around.
00:02:15 --> 00:02:16 Really quite remarkable.
00:02:16 --> 00:02:19 >> It is lovely. Yeah. Uh I miss it a lot.
00:02:19 --> 00:02:20 The last time we were there was for a
00:02:20 --> 00:02:22 beach wedding, but that's going back a
00:02:22 --> 00:02:23 few years. But even then, it didn't look
00:02:23 --> 00:02:26 like the, you know, the fishing village
00:02:26 --> 00:02:28 that I grew up, is it?
00:02:28 --> 00:02:31 >> Uh while we're talking about different
00:02:31 --> 00:02:34 places, um I was having a bit of a um I
00:02:34 --> 00:02:36 don't know what you'd call it, a job at
00:02:36 --> 00:02:39 Colorado's cold weather uh on a recent
00:02:39 --> 00:02:42 episode. And um I I got a note from
00:02:42 --> 00:02:44 Michael who said um on the podcast
00:02:44 --> 00:02:45 you're concerned about the frigid
00:02:46 --> 00:02:48 temperatures in Colorado. Unfortunately,
00:02:48 --> 00:02:49 we've just had one of the warmest
00:02:49 --> 00:02:51 Decembers on record with daily highs
00:02:51 --> 00:02:54 often 10 to 15° C. That's that's a
00:02:54 --> 00:02:57 winter in do um until this weekend,
00:02:57 --> 00:02:59 January, uh was on track to be well
00:02:59 --> 00:03:02 above normal uh with highs around 7 to
00:03:02 --> 00:03:05 10. And to add insult to injury, our
00:03:05 --> 00:03:07 mountain snow packs are the worst on
00:03:07 --> 00:03:13 record. Uh, and while our um um USB50
00:03:13 --> 00:03:16 ski industry is getting hurt, the real
00:03:16 --> 00:03:17 problem is that they rely on melting
00:03:18 --> 00:03:20 snow for water and they didn't get a lot
00:03:20 --> 00:03:23 of snow this year. So, um, yeah. Uh,
00:03:24 --> 00:03:26 that's that's a scary one. Um, and and I
00:03:26 --> 00:03:28 I think a lot of places in the world
00:03:28 --> 00:03:31 rely on snow for, you know, the the the
00:03:31 --> 00:03:33 spring melt for their water supplies.
00:03:33 --> 00:03:35 So, hopefully that's just a one-off in
00:03:35 --> 00:03:37 Colorado.
00:03:37 --> 00:03:39 Um, got a lot to talk about, Fred. Let's
00:03:39 --> 00:03:43 start with this uh this
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45 news that we received uh during the
00:03:45 --> 00:03:47 week. It's it's been um highly
00:03:47 --> 00:03:49 publicized.
00:03:49 --> 00:03:52 Uh Elon Musk, SpaceX
00:03:52 --> 00:03:54 has put in an application to launch
00:03:54 --> 00:03:58 possibly 1 million satellites. 1
00:03:58 --> 00:03:59 million. This this is a a completely
00:04:00 --> 00:04:03 different project to that of um uh uh
00:04:03 --> 00:04:06 the the um internet service that he's
00:04:06 --> 00:04:08 that he's been working on. This this is
00:04:08 --> 00:04:10 another kettle of fish.
00:04:10 --> 00:04:14 >> It is it's an orbiting data center. Uh
00:04:14 --> 00:04:17 >> so uh in fact SpaceX has basically
00:04:17 --> 00:04:19 teamed up with another company, an AI
00:04:19 --> 00:04:23 company. Um and together there is this
00:04:23 --> 00:04:28 plan to launch three sorry not 300 a
00:04:28 --> 00:04:30 million satellites
00:04:30 --> 00:04:34 um between 500 kilometers and 200 2
00:04:34 --> 00:04:40 kilometers in altitude um and at
00:04:40 --> 00:04:43 probably quite interesting inclinations
00:04:43 --> 00:04:46 not far from the equator uh and also
00:04:46 --> 00:04:51 some uh which will be in polar orbits
00:04:51 --> 00:04:54 What's the idea? Well, you you basically
00:04:54 --> 00:04:57 harness the sun's energy uh using these
00:04:57 --> 00:05:00 uh these spacecraft uh in order to power
00:05:00 --> 00:05:04 your data center uh and you link them by
00:05:04 --> 00:05:08 lasers essentially optical links. Uh and
00:05:08 --> 00:05:11 so uh the you know the the whole thing
00:05:11 --> 00:05:13 then engages with Starlink to send the
00:05:13 --> 00:05:17 data up and down to the earth. So it's a
00:05:17 --> 00:05:20 it's a wild idea. Um, it fills
00:05:20 --> 00:05:23 astronomers with horror. Uh, because a
00:05:23 --> 00:05:25 million satellites in orbit is just
00:05:25 --> 00:05:28 gonna completely pollute the sky.
00:05:28 --> 00:05:29 Especially
00:05:29 --> 00:05:32 >> when you have the some of them at 2
00:05:32 --> 00:05:33 kilometers, which means that they're
00:05:34 --> 00:05:36 they're visible for in fact at some
00:05:36 --> 00:05:39 latitudes they'll be visible all night.
00:05:39 --> 00:05:41 >> Uh, so that's uh, yep, that's uh, the
00:05:42 --> 00:05:44 latest shock horror. Uh, that is a
00:05:44 --> 00:05:45 filing that has gone, I think I'm right
00:05:46 --> 00:05:47 in saying, to the Federal Communications
00:05:47 --> 00:05:51 Commission. Uh I don't know whether it's
00:05:51 --> 00:05:52 been filed with the International
00:05:52 --> 00:05:54 Telecommunications Union which is the
00:05:54 --> 00:05:58 only international body that uh can
00:05:58 --> 00:06:01 basically regulates um space flights.
00:06:01 --> 00:06:03 There are many national bodies but uh
00:06:03 --> 00:06:05 the only international one is the ITU.
00:06:05 --> 00:06:09 Uh I would guess they would accept it uh
00:06:09 --> 00:06:12 because they accepted a filing back in
00:06:12 --> 00:06:14 2020 for 300 satellites put in by
00:06:14 --> 00:06:18 the Rwanda government. Um, but that uh
00:06:18 --> 00:06:19 if it hasn't already, and I don't think
00:06:19 --> 00:06:21 it has yet, that will have expired
00:06:21 --> 00:06:22 because I think they've only lost
00:06:22 --> 00:06:25 launched one cubat uh rather than
00:06:26 --> 00:06:29 300. So, it might be a little bit a
00:06:29 --> 00:06:31 little bit like the Rwanda was something
00:06:31 --> 00:06:34 like putting your foot in the door uh to
00:06:34 --> 00:06:36 uh you know to uh to to stake a claim.
00:06:36 --> 00:06:38 But we will see what happens. It's a
00:06:38 --> 00:06:40 very interesting development and said
00:06:40 --> 00:06:42 one that scares us to death in the
00:06:42 --> 00:06:45 world. Yeah, certainly a divisive issue
00:06:45 --> 00:06:47 and um it's not the first time as you
00:06:48 --> 00:06:50 said um the year before last there were
00:06:50 --> 00:06:52 complaints about the Starlink network
00:06:52 --> 00:06:54 and you know the blinding of telescopes.
00:06:54 --> 00:06:56 Astronomers got upset about that. Uh
00:06:56 --> 00:06:59 Elon Musk has actually rejected those
00:06:59 --> 00:07:01 claims and he'd probably reject these
00:07:01 --> 00:07:03 ones too. I mean
00:07:03 --> 00:07:06 >> it has to be said he's not he hasn't
00:07:06 --> 00:07:09 really of all the the internet uh supply
00:07:09 --> 00:07:11 companies of course Starink is the the
00:07:11 --> 00:07:13 one that's most populous. They've got uh
00:07:13 --> 00:07:16 9 a little bit more than 9
00:07:16 --> 00:07:19 spacecraft in orbit and um SpaceX has
00:07:19 --> 00:07:21 worked with the astronomical community
00:07:21 --> 00:07:23 to try and minimize their effect of of
00:07:23 --> 00:07:25 all the companies they've been the most
00:07:25 --> 00:07:28 forthcoming. But it's hard to see how
00:07:28 --> 00:07:29 when you put it up to a million
00:07:29 --> 00:07:31 satellites, how you can reconcile that
00:07:31 --> 00:07:32 with with astronomy.
00:07:32 --> 00:07:35 >> No. Uh and I might add actually as we
00:07:35 --> 00:07:37 speak there is a meeting going on in in
00:07:37 --> 00:07:40 Vienna uh which uh the issue of uh what
00:07:40 --> 00:07:42 we call dark and quiet skies the idea of
00:07:42 --> 00:07:44 satellite constellations that will be
00:07:44 --> 00:07:46 discussed this week and then
00:07:46 --> 00:07:48 >> okay be interesting to see what comes
00:07:48 --> 00:07:51 out of that. Uh we'll leave that one
00:07:51 --> 00:07:52 there. Um but I'm sure there'll be more
00:07:52 --> 00:07:55 about it going forward maybe. Uh let's
00:07:55 --> 00:07:57 go over to Chile because we talked about
00:07:57 --> 00:08:01 a um an energy energy project that was
00:08:01 --> 00:08:03 uh being touted for that part of the
00:08:03 --> 00:08:04 world which was going to be very close
00:08:04 --> 00:08:06 to some of the most significant
00:08:06 --> 00:08:09 telescopes on earth. Uh the problem with
00:08:09 --> 00:08:12 this energy plant was it was going to be
00:08:12 --> 00:08:15 um basically the size of a small city.
00:08:15 --> 00:08:17 So the lighting would have been a major
00:08:17 --> 00:08:19 issue but that that seems to have all
00:08:19 --> 00:08:22 been scrapped.
00:08:22 --> 00:08:25 >> Uh indeed it has. So, so the the problem
00:08:26 --> 00:08:29 was uh you're quite right. Um there is
00:08:29 --> 00:08:32 there are two mountains in Chile which
00:08:32 --> 00:08:34 aren't notable for astronomy. They've
00:08:34 --> 00:08:36 both got optical telescopes. One is
00:08:36 --> 00:08:39 Sarah Paranel which houses the VT uh the
00:08:39 --> 00:08:43 four 8.2 2 meter uh telescopes of the of
00:08:43 --> 00:08:45 the very large telescope as it's called
00:08:45 --> 00:08:48 and about um it's about 20 kilometers
00:08:48 --> 00:08:50 away on the other side of the valley is
00:08:50 --> 00:08:52 a mountain called Sarah Armazone is
00:08:52 --> 00:08:53 where the biggest telescope in the world
00:08:53 --> 00:08:56 is being built 39 meter ELT or extremely
00:08:56 --> 00:08:58 large telescope and in that valley uh
00:08:58 --> 00:09:02 it's where uh the an energy company AES
00:09:02 --> 00:09:07 Andes uh they had plans for a factory to
00:09:07 --> 00:09:09 use solar and wind energy to make green
00:09:09 --> 00:09:10 hydrogen
00:09:10 --> 00:09:12 Uh and as exactly as you've said, it was
00:09:12 --> 00:09:15 citicized. Uh it were it filled
00:09:15 --> 00:09:17 astronomers with horror because uh it
00:09:17 --> 00:09:20 threatened to put light pollution into a
00:09:20 --> 00:09:23 region which so far has been completely
00:09:23 --> 00:09:25 dark and which houses perhaps the
00:09:25 --> 00:09:27 world's most productive and efficient
00:09:27 --> 00:09:29 telescope. Certainly when the ELT comes
00:09:29 --> 00:09:32 along, uh there is nothing to touch it
00:09:32 --> 00:09:33 anywhere else in the world. It's going
00:09:33 --> 00:09:35 to be an extraordinary instrument. Uh
00:09:35 --> 00:09:38 but it's been cancelled. the company has
00:09:38 --> 00:09:40 pulled out of the project and I think
00:09:40 --> 00:09:42 they've taken note of the environmental
00:09:42 --> 00:09:44 damage it would do to astronomy. I think
00:09:44 --> 00:09:45 that's been the reason why they've done
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 that and so all credit to people who've
00:09:48 --> 00:09:51 used common sense to you know to
00:09:51 --> 00:09:53 progress things they'll no doubt put it
00:09:53 --> 00:09:56 somewhere else um where it might be less
00:09:56 --> 00:09:57 damaging because it is a you know it's
00:09:58 --> 00:10:00 an environmentally positive uh step.
00:10:00 --> 00:10:03 Green hydrogen's a great thing to have
00:10:03 --> 00:10:06 but uh but we don't want it there. No,
00:10:06 --> 00:10:09 no, but uh hopefully they will be able
00:10:09 --> 00:10:11 to put it somewhere else because it does
00:10:11 --> 00:10:13 sound like a a good project moving
00:10:13 --> 00:10:15 forward, but just um yeah, not not
00:10:16 --> 00:10:18 there. Not in that place. Um yeah,
00:10:18 --> 00:10:21 >> hats off to them for making that
00:10:21 --> 00:10:22 decision. It must have been difficult
00:10:22 --> 00:10:24 because that's a that's a 10 billion US
00:10:24 --> 00:10:26 project. That's
00:10:26 --> 00:10:26 >> very big. Yeah,
00:10:26 --> 00:10:27 >> that's a lot of bigies.
00:10:27 --> 00:10:29 >> I suppose that that's the ultimate nimi,
00:10:30 --> 00:10:32 isn't it? Uh a nimi pro process. Not in
00:10:32 --> 00:10:33 my backyard.
00:10:33 --> 00:10:34 >> Not in my backyard. We got a lot of nimi
00:10:34 --> 00:10:36 projects around here. I could tell you.
00:10:36 --> 00:10:37 >> Yes.
00:10:37 --> 00:10:39 >> Wind farms, solar farms, the inland
00:10:39 --> 00:10:42 rail. It's all causing um a lot of
00:10:42 --> 00:10:45 people to um get a bit nimi. This is
00:10:45 --> 00:10:47 Space Nuts with Andrew Dunley and
00:10:48 --> 00:10:52 Professor Fred Watson.
00:10:52 --> 00:10:54 >> Swift
00:10:54 --> 00:10:56 base here. The angle has landed.
00:10:56 --> 00:10:57 >> Space nets.
00:10:57 --> 00:11:00 >> Okay, Fred. Uh speaking of the boon,
00:11:00 --> 00:11:03 let's move our attention to Arteimus 2.
00:11:03 --> 00:11:05 that uh mission we talked about last
00:11:05 --> 00:11:07 week which was getting ready for its wet
00:11:07 --> 00:11:09 rehearsal and a few other tests and a
00:11:09 --> 00:11:13 few checkovers. Uh mostly things went
00:11:13 --> 00:11:16 well but they did find a hydrogen leak
00:11:16 --> 00:11:19 and that set them back another month.
00:11:20 --> 00:11:21 >> Uh it's a bit like Groundhog Day, isn't
00:11:21 --> 00:11:23 it really? Cuz this is exactly what
00:11:23 --> 00:11:26 happened with Arteimus one. Uh and in
00:11:26 --> 00:11:27 fact at one point I think they took the
00:11:28 --> 00:11:29 the whole spacecraft back into the
00:11:30 --> 00:11:32 vehicle assembly building to to try and
00:11:32 --> 00:11:34 fix the hydrogen leaks. Uh so yes the
00:11:34 --> 00:11:37 wet uh the wet dress rehearsal was this
00:11:37 --> 00:11:40 past weekend uh our time uh as we are
00:11:40 --> 00:11:43 speaking today on the recording. Um and
00:11:44 --> 00:11:47 the hydrogen leak as I understand it is
00:11:47 --> 00:11:50 it's the place where the pipe fits into
00:11:50 --> 00:11:53 the into the tank. You know it's like on
00:11:53 --> 00:11:55 your car. It's where you stick your the
00:11:55 --> 00:11:59 fuel bowser in hose into your petrol
00:11:59 --> 00:12:01 tank. Except it's a little bit more
00:12:01 --> 00:12:02 complicated than that. But I think
00:12:02 --> 00:12:04 that's where the leak has been. And it's
00:12:04 --> 00:12:08 sufficiently it's worrying enough to the
00:12:08 --> 00:12:11 engineers and the administrators who are
00:12:11 --> 00:12:13 overlooking 2 that what they've done is
00:12:13 --> 00:12:15 they said well actually we need to do
00:12:15 --> 00:12:18 another wet dress rehearsal when we fix
00:12:18 --> 00:12:20 this problem. And that means postponing
00:12:20 --> 00:12:23 uh at the altimus 2 launch from this
00:12:23 --> 00:12:25 month which was what we hoped uh to next
00:12:25 --> 00:12:28 month which means March at the earliest.
00:12:28 --> 00:12:32 So yes uh a push uh back in uh in in the
00:12:32 --> 00:12:33 you know in the process.
00:12:33 --> 00:12:36 >> Will will they leave the launch vehicle
00:12:36 --> 00:12:38 on the pad at this stage?
00:12:38 --> 00:12:40 >> I think at the moment that's the plan.
00:12:40 --> 00:12:44 Uh I haven't heard uh any hints of it
00:12:44 --> 00:12:46 being taken back to vehicle assembly
00:12:46 --> 00:12:47 building. That's a you know it's a big
00:12:47 --> 00:12:50 pro process is a major step to have to
00:12:50 --> 00:12:51 do that. So they will certainly I think
00:12:51 --> 00:12:53 be looking at trying to fix it on the
00:12:53 --> 00:12:55 pad beforehand.
00:12:55 --> 00:12:57 >> Okay. And and if they can't Yeah. They
00:12:57 --> 00:12:59 might have to roll back
00:12:59 --> 00:13:00 >> Yeah.
00:13:00 --> 00:13:01 >> again.
00:13:01 --> 00:13:02 >> Again.
00:13:02 --> 00:13:03 >> But you know it's it's it's all about
00:13:03 --> 00:13:06 safety. That's the most important thing.
00:13:06 --> 00:13:07 And
00:13:07 --> 00:13:08 >> yeah,
00:13:08 --> 00:13:10 >> we you know they they want to get this
00:13:10 --> 00:13:14 right. So, um, it's better to be a month
00:13:14 --> 00:13:17 late or even longer than have something
00:13:17 --> 00:13:19 go horribly wrong, which we've certainly
00:13:19 --> 00:13:20 witnessed in the past. And we talked
00:13:20 --> 00:13:22 about the anniversary of Colombia last
00:13:22 --> 00:13:25 week. And it's, you know, those things
00:13:25 --> 00:13:28 are still strong in people's minds. You
00:13:28 --> 00:13:31 got to avoid that at all costs. So, um,
00:13:31 --> 00:13:32 yeah, hopefully they'll find find the
00:13:32 --> 00:13:34 problem. Maybe it's a poo valve that's
00:13:34 --> 00:13:37 just, you know, not
00:13:37 --> 00:13:40 >> Yeah, it could be a P valve. The real
00:13:40 --> 00:13:43 problem is hydrogen atoms are so small.
00:13:44 --> 00:13:44 >> Yeah.
00:13:44 --> 00:13:46 >> Uh they're the smallest of all atoms. So
00:13:46 --> 00:13:49 they they fit through any tiny crack. Um
00:13:49 --> 00:13:52 we had a uh at one time uh when I was
00:13:52 --> 00:13:54 working as an astronomer at Siding
00:13:54 --> 00:13:56 Spring Observatory, not far from you. Uh
00:13:56 --> 00:13:58 one of our telescopes used photographic
00:13:58 --> 00:14:01 plates back in the day. And to sensitize
00:14:02 --> 00:14:04 them, we called it hypersensitizing. We
00:14:04 --> 00:14:05 we actually had to bathe them in
00:14:05 --> 00:14:08 hydrogen for a period of something like
00:14:08 --> 00:14:11 10 hours before they were used and that
00:14:11 --> 00:14:13 increased their sensitivity by se
00:14:13 --> 00:14:17 several orders in fact. Uh um but the
00:14:17 --> 00:14:18 problem was keeping the hydrogen where
00:14:18 --> 00:14:20 you wanted it. It tends to leak. Uh it's
00:14:20 --> 00:14:23 it's a very leaky gas because of the
00:14:23 --> 00:14:24 small size of the atoms.
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26 >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, just look at the
00:14:26 --> 00:14:29 Hindenburg. Certainly leaked there.
00:14:29 --> 00:14:30 >> Yes, that's right.
00:14:30 --> 00:14:33 >> Yeah. Um although didn't they figure out
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35 many many years later that it wasn't the
00:14:35 --> 00:14:37 hydrogen leaking that was the problem.
00:14:37 --> 00:14:41 It was the um ah what do they call it
00:14:41 --> 00:14:43 the stuff in the fabric um that that
00:14:43 --> 00:14:45 caused the problem. Yeah. It wasn't it
00:14:45 --> 00:14:47 wasn't actually the hydrogen that was
00:14:47 --> 00:14:50 the issue. It was the it was the static
00:14:50 --> 00:14:52 electricity in the fabric but it was the
00:14:52 --> 00:14:54 the lacquer. I think the lacquer.
00:14:54 --> 00:14:54 >> That was my
00:14:54 --> 00:14:55 >> Yeah,
00:14:55 --> 00:14:56 >> that that could be it. That was my
00:14:56 --> 00:14:57 understanding that it was static
00:14:57 --> 00:14:58 electricity.
00:14:58 --> 00:15:01 >> Yeah. different story. But yeah, Artemus
00:15:02 --> 00:15:05 2 still on the launch pad. U probably
00:15:05 --> 00:15:07 the schedule is March the 6th at this
00:15:07 --> 00:15:11 stage, but um maybe that will change uh
00:15:11 --> 00:15:14 depending on how the next test goes or
00:15:14 --> 00:15:16 the wet rehearsal or whatever they do.
00:15:16 --> 00:15:17 They did want to try and do more than
00:15:17 --> 00:15:19 one. So um yeah, well, they got an
00:15:19 --> 00:15:22 opportunity. Now they have to. Um now,
00:15:22 --> 00:15:25 uh this this story I find fascinating
00:15:25 --> 00:15:27 and I think you've got a personal
00:15:27 --> 00:15:28 connection with some of the people
00:15:28 --> 00:15:30 involved in this, but they have
00:15:30 --> 00:15:33 basically grown mushrooms in space and
00:15:33 --> 00:15:34 then they brought them back and had
00:15:34 --> 00:15:37 lunch.
00:15:37 --> 00:15:39 That's right. Uh this is actually a
00:15:39 --> 00:15:41 friend of ours, um Sarah Webb, who's
00:15:42 --> 00:15:44 down in Melbourne. She's a an
00:15:44 --> 00:15:46 astrophysicist and a science
00:15:46 --> 00:15:48 communicator uh which is how we've
00:15:48 --> 00:15:50 worked with her in the past. But she
00:15:50 --> 00:15:56 runs uh a project uh to basically engage
00:15:56 --> 00:15:59 um with the International Space Station
00:15:59 --> 00:16:03 uh uh on behalf of school school
00:16:03 --> 00:16:05 students. Uh and so this particular
00:16:05 --> 00:16:09 project uh was designed by 12 uh by
00:16:10 --> 00:16:12 Sarah and and one sorry Sarah and one of
00:16:12 --> 00:16:15 her colleagues uh plus 12 high school
00:16:15 --> 00:16:17 students from Hailbury College in
00:16:17 --> 00:16:20 Melbourne uh and um a lot of help from
00:16:20 --> 00:16:23 professional mushroom growers. Uh what
00:16:23 --> 00:16:27 they did was they packaged up uh not the
00:16:27 --> 00:16:31 mushrooms themselves but the things that
00:16:31 --> 00:16:35 uh essentially act almost like the roots
00:16:35 --> 00:16:39 of the mushrooms uh which are called uh
00:16:39 --> 00:16:41 mascelium uh a word I didn't know
00:16:41 --> 00:16:43 because I'm not a mushroom expert. The
00:16:43 --> 00:16:46 small filaments that are essentially the
00:16:46 --> 00:16:48 root network of mushrooms. So that's
00:16:48 --> 00:16:50 what they sent up. They were in space
00:16:50 --> 00:16:52 for a month on the International Space
00:16:52 --> 00:16:54 Station. They came back again with a
00:16:54 --> 00:16:57 crew change. Um, and so what the
00:16:57 --> 00:17:00 researchers did uh was to essentially
00:17:00 --> 00:17:04 take these mcelium uh uh filaments and
00:17:04 --> 00:17:07 plant them and turn them into mushrooms.
00:17:07 --> 00:17:10 Uh, and it worked. Uh, it worked well.
00:17:10 --> 00:17:12 And so they've now written a rather nice
00:17:12 --> 00:17:15 conversation piece which is entitled We
00:17:15 --> 00:17:18 Ate Space Mushrooms and survived to tell
00:17:18 --> 00:17:20 the tale which is I think quite a nice
00:17:20 --> 00:17:21 title.
00:17:21 --> 00:17:23 >> It is rather uh I was just looking up
00:17:23 --> 00:17:25 what the most expensive mushrooms in the
00:17:25 --> 00:17:28 world are and they're the yatsa gamboo
00:17:28 --> 00:17:30 caterpillar fungus.
00:17:30 --> 00:17:34 uh and they cost $50 to $63
00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 per pound because of their rarity and
00:17:37 --> 00:17:39 apparently they've got medicinal
00:17:39 --> 00:17:41 properties and you know they grow them
00:17:41 --> 00:17:45 in the Himalayas. I've got a feeling
00:17:45 --> 00:17:48 these mushrooms which are based on the
00:17:48 --> 00:17:50 lion's mane mushroom.
00:17:50 --> 00:17:51 >> Yes.
00:17:51 --> 00:17:52 >> Uh would be a bit more expensive than
00:17:52 --> 00:17:55 that by the sound of it.
00:17:55 --> 00:17:57 >> Yeah, they might be by the time you
00:17:57 --> 00:17:58 figure in the cost of the International
00:17:58 --> 00:18:00 Space Station. That's right. And the
00:18:00 --> 00:18:03 lion's mane is the one um it's a species
00:18:03 --> 00:18:04 that it's actually the one that they
00:18:04 --> 00:18:08 they ate. Um it's just to put this
00:18:08 --> 00:18:11 project in context, it's really um you
00:18:11 --> 00:18:14 know thinking about how you might uh
00:18:14 --> 00:18:18 grow fresh food for astronauts on
00:18:18 --> 00:18:19 longhaul space missions.
00:18:19 --> 00:18:22 >> Uh you know, if you've got um people
00:18:22 --> 00:18:24 going to Mars, you're going to have six,
00:18:24 --> 00:18:26 seven, eight months in the spacecraft.
00:18:26 --> 00:18:29 Um can you uh as they say in their
00:18:29 --> 00:18:31 conversation article, how can you
00:18:31 --> 00:18:33 continue to nutritionally support those
00:18:33 --> 00:18:37 astronauts? Uh and uh that is
00:18:37 --> 00:18:39 essentially uh one one of the
00:18:39 --> 00:18:40 motivations for looking at things like
00:18:40 --> 00:18:44 growing things in space uh giving them
00:18:44 --> 00:18:46 um the check out to make sure that they
00:18:46 --> 00:18:50 don't uh turn poisonous by their zero
00:18:50 --> 00:18:51 gravity environment, things of that
00:18:51 --> 00:18:52 sort. And that's what they've done with
00:18:52 --> 00:18:54 this. So very nice experiment. Yeah,
00:18:54 --> 00:18:56 I've been doing a lot of research on how
00:18:56 --> 00:18:59 you would feed people on a on a a
00:18:59 --> 00:19:02 spaceship for a long haul mission. And
00:19:02 --> 00:19:05 that's one of the solutions uh to to
00:19:05 --> 00:19:08 have um basically small farms on on the
00:19:08 --> 00:19:11 ship. hydroponics and things like that
00:19:11 --> 00:19:13 and and grow grow your vegetables and
00:19:13 --> 00:19:15 and your fungi and
00:19:15 --> 00:19:17 >> whatever else will grow easily in space
00:19:17 --> 00:19:21 and supplement the other stuff that you
00:19:21 --> 00:19:23 have to take with you um which would be
00:19:23 --> 00:19:26 the proteins. But uh yeah, it's um it's
00:19:26 --> 00:19:31 a really interesting um story uh what
00:19:31 --> 00:19:33 they can do with food. I mean, if you're
00:19:33 --> 00:19:35 going to spend a year out in space or or
00:19:35 --> 00:19:38 whatever, you you can't just rely on
00:19:38 --> 00:19:42 packets of chips. And
00:19:42 --> 00:19:44 >> yeah, you you won't get out of the hatch
00:19:44 --> 00:19:47 when you get home. But um yeah,
00:19:47 --> 00:19:50 nutrition is very important and uh yeah,
00:19:50 --> 00:19:52 they got to get that right too uh in
00:19:52 --> 00:19:55 time. It's all it's not it's not an easy
00:19:55 --> 00:19:56 thing, is it? going into space when you
00:19:56 --> 00:19:59 consider all the logistics involved in
00:19:59 --> 00:20:03 in feeding and disposal of waste and um
00:20:03 --> 00:20:06 you know um all the other things that go
00:20:06 --> 00:20:08 with it. Quite quite extraordinary. But
00:20:08 --> 00:20:10 uh I wonder what they were like like um
00:20:10 --> 00:20:13 I um I think the report basically
00:20:14 --> 00:20:16 suggests that they were quite yummy.
00:20:16 --> 00:20:19 >> Yes. Um that's right. Exactly that. They
00:20:19 --> 00:20:20 were very tasty.
00:20:20 --> 00:20:20 >> Yeah.
00:20:20 --> 00:20:22 >> I wonder did do you think space changes
00:20:22 --> 00:20:25 the the taste of things? Well, in you
00:20:25 --> 00:20:27 know, that might be one of the um the
00:20:27 --> 00:20:31 tests that you do. You you you take uh
00:20:31 --> 00:20:33 mycelium that's been to space and
00:20:33 --> 00:20:36 mycelium that hasn't and um try try to
00:20:36 --> 00:20:37 contrast the two. I'm sure they've done
00:20:37 --> 00:20:38 that, too.
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 >> Yeah, maybe. It's great story. You can
00:20:40 --> 00:20:44 read it at the conversation website. Uh
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46 yes, it's called We Ate Space Mushrooms
00:20:46 --> 00:20:49 and Survived to Tell the Tale. Love it.
00:20:49 --> 00:20:51 Uh this is Space Nuts with Andrew Dunley
00:20:51 --> 00:20:55 and Professor Fred Watson.
00:20:55 --> 00:20:57 We choose to go to the moon in this
00:20:57 --> 00:21:00 decade and do the other things not
00:21:00 --> 00:21:02 because they are easy but because they
00:21:02 --> 00:21:03 are hard.
00:21:03 --> 00:21:05 >> These nuts.
00:21:05 --> 00:21:07 >> Now Fred, we're going to dedicate the
00:21:07 --> 00:21:10 last section of the show to Mars. And
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13 this was uh a story that caught me a
00:21:13 --> 00:21:15 little bit by surprise. We've talked a
00:21:15 --> 00:21:17 lot about the Perseverance rover and
00:21:17 --> 00:21:20 what it's up to. Um these two stories
00:21:20 --> 00:21:24 actually involve Perseverance. Um, but
00:21:24 --> 00:21:26 this one, um, yeah, Perseverance has
00:21:26 --> 00:21:30 gone AI. No more no more human drivers.
00:21:30 --> 00:21:32 We've left it up to the computers.
00:21:32 --> 00:21:35 >> They've That's right. So, it's, um, the
00:21:35 --> 00:21:38 story is really about the first ever
00:21:38 --> 00:21:40 drive on Mars, fully planned by
00:21:40 --> 00:21:42 artificial intelligence.
00:21:42 --> 00:21:42 >> Wow.
00:21:42 --> 00:21:44 >> And it h happened actually at the end of
00:21:44 --> 00:21:47 last year. Um, the two demonstrations
00:21:47 --> 00:21:48 carried out on December the 8th and
00:21:48 --> 00:21:52 December the 10th last year. uh and it's
00:21:52 --> 00:21:55 all about how you plan a route across
00:21:55 --> 00:22:00 the terrain uh of Mars uh with no manual
00:22:00 --> 00:22:05 input. And so it's a a process that uh
00:22:05 --> 00:22:09 usually is is performed by humans as you
00:22:09 --> 00:22:11 might expect. People on Earth pouring
00:22:11 --> 00:22:15 over the maps that we've got the high
00:22:15 --> 00:22:16 resolution images that have been taken
00:22:16 --> 00:22:19 by Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter and
00:22:19 --> 00:22:22 things of that sort. Um so uh what
00:22:22 --> 00:22:25 they've done is given all that to the AI
00:22:25 --> 00:22:28 um u machine and said okay we want to
00:22:28 --> 00:22:32 get to there how do we do it and
00:22:32 --> 00:22:35 basically that's what they've done and
00:22:35 --> 00:22:39 it's um it there's a very nice report on
00:22:39 --> 00:22:43 this on the uh space.com website
00:22:43 --> 00:22:46 >> uh that gives us uh a map showing the
00:22:46 --> 00:22:50 planned and the actual routes that were
00:22:50 --> 00:22:54 taken by the Perseverance rover. Uh, and
00:22:54 --> 00:22:57 it just goes to show how close the
00:22:57 --> 00:22:58 actual route was to the planned route,
00:22:58 --> 00:23:00 which means that they, you know, they
00:23:00 --> 00:23:03 didn't encounter unexpected obstacles
00:23:03 --> 00:23:03 and things of that sort.
00:23:04 --> 00:23:06 >> Yeah, that's uh very unlike when I used
00:23:06 --> 00:23:07 to go in the car with my grandmother.
00:23:08 --> 00:23:10 She Yeah, I
00:23:10 --> 00:23:12 remember one day we turned into the
00:23:12 --> 00:23:14 highway and she was on the wrong side of
00:23:14 --> 00:23:16 the road.
00:23:16 --> 00:23:19 >> Anyway, that's not a problem on Mars.
00:23:19 --> 00:23:20 No, there there isn't a wrong side of
00:23:20 --> 00:23:22 the road on Mars. That's right. I
00:23:22 --> 00:23:25 suppose um you know getting off the your
00:23:25 --> 00:23:27 beaten track is uh but there isn't a
00:23:27 --> 00:23:29 beaten track. That's the other thing. So
00:23:29 --> 00:23:31 you're always on virgin territory when
00:23:31 --> 00:23:34 you're uh driving a spacecraft on Mars.
00:23:34 --> 00:23:38 Um I think um I think it's uh a step
00:23:38 --> 00:23:40 forward because I think there's quite a
00:23:40 --> 00:23:46 lot of uh you know work goes in uh to um
00:23:46 --> 00:23:48 the the the
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50 human planning of the the routes to
00:23:50 --> 00:23:56 Mars. Um it's it's uh it's a labor
00:23:56 --> 00:23:59 intensive process. Um in fact I might
00:23:59 --> 00:24:01 read a little bit from that space.com
00:24:01 --> 00:24:04 article which is really quite sums up
00:24:04 --> 00:24:06 the the whole process. Uh because Mars
00:24:06 --> 00:24:09 is an average of 150 million miles or
00:24:09 --> 00:24:12 225 million kilometers from Earth.
00:24:12 --> 00:24:14 Communication delays make realtime
00:24:14 --> 00:24:16 control impossible. For decades mission
00:24:16 --> 00:24:18 teams have instead planned daily routes
00:24:18 --> 00:24:21 by hand. Human drivers analyze the
00:24:21 --> 00:24:24 terrain and rover status data,
00:24:24 --> 00:24:27 then map out paths using way points,
00:24:27 --> 00:24:29 typically spaced no more than about 100
00:24:29 --> 00:24:33 meters, 330 ft apart, to avoid hazards.
00:24:33 --> 00:24:34 And then these plans are sent to Mars
00:24:34 --> 00:24:37 via the deep space network where the
00:24:37 --> 00:24:42 rover executes them. Uh so this is uh uh
00:24:42 --> 00:24:44 really um you know a step forward. If
00:24:44 --> 00:24:46 you can get AI to do all that, then the
00:24:46 --> 00:24:48 other mission scientists could go and do
00:24:48 --> 00:24:51 something else like analyze uh what the
00:24:51 --> 00:24:53 what the sample uh you know sample
00:24:53 --> 00:24:55 gatherers are telling us about the
00:24:55 --> 00:24:56 terrain on Mars.
00:24:56 --> 00:24:59 >> Yeah. Uh it's it's a big leap forward
00:25:00 --> 00:25:02 really. And when you think about it, I
00:25:02 --> 00:25:04 mean
00:25:04 --> 00:25:06 they've they've done it pretty tough
00:25:06 --> 00:25:08 trying to make decisions about where to
00:25:08 --> 00:25:10 where to go and how to do it. And if you
00:25:10 --> 00:25:12 have to make a direction change, the
00:25:12 --> 00:25:16 time factor is like 4 minutes up to 24
00:25:16 --> 00:25:18 minutes to get the message to
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20 Perseverance
00:25:20 --> 00:25:22 and then you got to wait that time again
00:25:22 --> 00:25:23 for the message to come back saying,
00:25:23 --> 00:25:25 "No, we hit a rock."
00:25:25 --> 00:25:28 >> That's right. Yes. So, yeah. Exactly.
00:25:28 --> 00:25:29 So, um you know, that's why you've got
00:25:30 --> 00:25:32 to upload the the instructions
00:25:32 --> 00:25:35 beforehand. Um and if AI can help with
00:25:35 --> 00:25:36 that, so much the better.
00:25:36 --> 00:25:38 >> Yeah. Incredible. Yeah. I I mean you
00:25:38 --> 00:25:40 hear a lot of doom and gloom about AI
00:25:40 --> 00:25:43 from certain commentators. Uh you know
00:25:43 --> 00:25:45 it's going to be the end of humanity.
00:25:45 --> 00:25:48 That's the extreme. But it's so useful.
00:25:48 --> 00:25:51 Like even in general day-to-day stuff,
00:25:51 --> 00:25:53 uh it is so very useful. I was trying to
00:25:53 --> 00:25:55 look something up the other day and I
00:25:55 --> 00:25:58 could not get the wording right in my
00:25:58 --> 00:26:00 browser for it to look up what I wanted.
00:26:00 --> 00:26:02 It doesn't happen often like that, but
00:26:02 --> 00:26:05 it was driving me nuts. So, I just went
00:26:05 --> 00:26:08 to um AI mode and went, I want to know
00:26:08 --> 00:26:09 this. And it went ding, ding, ding,
00:26:10 --> 00:26:13 done. It's it's pretty impressive stuff.
00:26:13 --> 00:26:15 >> Really impressive stuff. And we're only
00:26:15 --> 00:26:17 at the very dawning of it, aren't we?
00:26:17 --> 00:26:19 Really, it's it's only in the early
00:26:19 --> 00:26:22 days. And uh it makes me wonder, Fred,
00:26:22 --> 00:26:25 what we can use in terms of AI as
00:26:25 --> 00:26:28 day-to-day people, what have they got
00:26:28 --> 00:26:33 going in secret, you know, in in in
00:26:33 --> 00:26:35 the dark rooms of the military and
00:26:35 --> 00:26:37 places like that. Their AI systems must
00:26:37 --> 00:26:39 be amazing.
00:26:39 --> 00:26:41 >> Yeah, that's where it really starts
00:26:41 --> 00:26:43 worrying when you let robots go off and
00:26:43 --> 00:26:44 kill people.
00:26:44 --> 00:26:46 >> Yeah, that'll happen one day.
00:26:46 --> 00:26:46 >> Yeah,
00:26:46 --> 00:26:48 >> I don't doubt it. But, uh, yeah,
00:26:48 --> 00:26:51 fantastic story about Perseverance, uh,
00:26:51 --> 00:26:54 using AI technology to find its way
00:26:54 --> 00:26:56 around and, uh, maybe it'll miss those
00:26:56 --> 00:26:58 rocks now. And you can read it at
00:26:58 --> 00:27:00 space.com.
00:27:00 --> 00:27:05 Still on Mars and, uh, still on the, um,
00:27:05 --> 00:27:08 Perseverance rover. Uh, this is a
00:27:08 --> 00:27:10 fabulous story to finish on, Fred. And
00:27:10 --> 00:27:12 this is I I think we've talked about the
00:27:12 --> 00:27:16 potential for a shoreline uh being
00:27:16 --> 00:27:19 suggested for Mars, but now they reckon
00:27:19 --> 00:27:21 they've actually uncovered
00:27:21 --> 00:27:24 definitive evidence of it. That's right.
00:27:24 --> 00:27:26 Yes. So you you're absolutely right.
00:27:26 --> 00:27:29 There's um uh for a long time there have
00:27:29 --> 00:27:32 been features in just in the geomapology
00:27:32 --> 00:27:34 of Mars the you know the layout of the
00:27:34 --> 00:27:39 land that uh suggest uh shorelines uh
00:27:40 --> 00:27:44 from this this hypothetical ocean which
00:27:44 --> 00:27:46 that the evidence is building probably
00:27:46 --> 00:27:48 covered the northern hemisphere of Mars
00:27:48 --> 00:27:50 for a long period. Uh we've talked about
00:27:50 --> 00:27:52 several stories recently that seem to be
00:27:52 --> 00:27:54 confirming that it was a large body of
00:27:54 --> 00:27:56 water rather than just a few lakes that
00:27:56 --> 00:27:59 came and went uh with uh with the
00:27:59 --> 00:28:03 climate. Um so but the you know we it's
00:28:04 --> 00:28:06 one thing identifying possible
00:28:06 --> 00:28:09 shorelines from orbit but it's quite
00:28:09 --> 00:28:12 another to have definitive evidence on
00:28:12 --> 00:28:15 the ground. And that's uh what
00:28:15 --> 00:28:18 Perseverance seems to have found now
00:28:18 --> 00:28:21 with an analysis of rocks. And we're
00:28:21 --> 00:28:23 still talking about Jezero Crater, which
00:28:23 --> 00:28:26 is where the spacecraft is. Remember,
00:28:26 --> 00:28:27 it's this crater that we believe was
00:28:27 --> 00:28:30 once full of water. And there's a a
00:28:30 --> 00:28:32 river delta on one side of it, which is
00:28:32 --> 00:28:35 what Perseverance is is looking at. Um
00:28:35 --> 00:28:38 but the shoreline uh hypothesis comes
00:28:38 --> 00:28:42 about uh and this is actually uh um from
00:28:42 --> 00:28:44 studies carried out by scientists at
00:28:44 --> 00:28:47 Imperial College in London. Uh what
00:28:47 --> 00:28:49 they've done is they've looked at it's
00:28:49 --> 00:28:51 an area which is called the margin unit.
00:28:52 --> 00:28:55 Uh interesting you it's sounds bit more
00:28:55 --> 00:28:57 like a jazz combo to me but it's the
00:28:57 --> 00:29:00 margin unit. That's the that's the the
00:29:00 --> 00:29:03 name of this uh geological feature. M uh
00:29:03 --> 00:29:07 and it's got a double whammy in terms of
00:29:07 --> 00:29:10 uh the way its history has evolved
00:29:10 --> 00:29:15 because uh there's there's signs of uh
00:29:15 --> 00:29:17 what's been called subsurface water
00:29:17 --> 00:29:22 activity where you've got water that is
00:29:22 --> 00:29:25 changing the characteristics of rock. Uh
00:29:25 --> 00:29:28 and the I think the thinking summarizing
00:29:28 --> 00:29:30 it very quickly and I hope I'm doing the
00:29:30 --> 00:29:32 scientist justice in doing this. Uh what
00:29:32 --> 00:29:34 you've got is basically it starts off
00:29:34 --> 00:29:37 with volcanic rock but uh that rock is
00:29:37 --> 00:29:41 then altered by water uh and turns out
00:29:41 --> 00:29:43 to have uh you know to be sort of
00:29:43 --> 00:29:45 carbonacious after that carbon dioxide
00:29:45 --> 00:29:48 uh rich water underground circulating
00:29:48 --> 00:29:51 underground. It it gives the a chemical
00:29:51 --> 00:29:53 alteration to the to the to the
00:29:53 --> 00:29:57 landscape underground. Um and so that's
00:29:57 --> 00:29:59 one of the things that this study has
00:29:59 --> 00:30:01 revealed that that is almost certainly
00:30:01 --> 00:30:05 what happened. But the other thing is uh
00:30:05 --> 00:30:08 the fact that they now see evidence of a
00:30:08 --> 00:30:12 shoreline in terms of the basically the
00:30:12 --> 00:30:15 layers the um the there there are
00:30:15 --> 00:30:18 structures in the sand sandstone which
00:30:18 --> 00:30:20 is kind of what it is. It's this altered
00:30:20 --> 00:30:24 rock um which match structures as they
00:30:24 --> 00:30:26 say typically formed by wave action on
00:30:26 --> 00:30:27 the shoreline.
00:30:27 --> 00:30:27 >> Yeah.
00:30:28 --> 00:30:30 >> Um and a lovely comment from one of the
00:30:30 --> 00:30:32 uh one of the researchers. We are
00:30:32 --> 00:30:35 looking at what was once a beach. Uh
00:30:35 --> 00:30:38 that's Alex Jones who is a PhD student
00:30:38 --> 00:30:40 at the Imperial College and he's the
00:30:40 --> 00:30:43 lead author of uh this this study.
00:30:43 --> 00:30:45 >> Yeah, it's fascinating. So
00:30:45 --> 00:30:47 >> I I think for me, Fred, the most
00:30:47 --> 00:30:49 exciting part of this story is that they
00:30:49 --> 00:30:52 are suggesting this discovery pushes
00:30:52 --> 00:30:54 back the timeline for conditions that
00:30:54 --> 00:30:58 would support life on Mars. So it g does
00:30:58 --> 00:31:00 that mean that the the time frame is
00:31:00 --> 00:31:02 much larger than they originally
00:31:02 --> 00:31:03 thought?
00:31:03 --> 00:31:05 >> Yes, I think that's the bottom line that
00:31:05 --> 00:31:06 you you know you you you're giving
00:31:06 --> 00:31:10 yourself a bigger window uh in which uh
00:31:10 --> 00:31:13 life could form on Mars. So yes, it's uh
00:31:13 --> 00:31:16 it is a very nice piece of work. Uh once
00:31:16 --> 00:31:18 again, it's just adding to the growing
00:31:18 --> 00:31:21 body of evidence that we we are amassing
00:31:21 --> 00:31:23 that yes, Mars once had a climate very
00:31:23 --> 00:31:24 like the Earth's.
00:31:24 --> 00:31:28 >> Yeah. And may may well have had life as
00:31:28 --> 00:31:30 a consequence of that. And now that the
00:31:30 --> 00:31:35 window is bigger, um yeah, it's I my
00:31:35 --> 00:31:36 brain is saying it's only a matter of
00:31:36 --> 00:31:39 time before we find the evidence. And
00:31:39 --> 00:31:41 whether or not there's still life on
00:31:41 --> 00:31:43 Mars, no one's dismissing that
00:31:43 --> 00:31:45 possibility either.
00:31:45 --> 00:31:47 >> No, that's that's right. Exactly.
00:31:47 --> 00:31:49 Fascinating story. You can read it at
00:31:49 --> 00:31:52 daily galaxy.com.
00:31:52 --> 00:31:56 Uh or you can do the uh geeky thing and
00:31:56 --> 00:31:58 read the paper at the Journal of
00:31:58 --> 00:32:01 Geoysical Research Planets. Uh gosh,
00:32:01 --> 00:32:03 Fred, we've uh we've covered a lot of
00:32:03 --> 00:32:05 territory and we're all done for the
00:32:05 --> 00:32:07 day. Thank you very much.
00:32:07 --> 00:32:09 Pleasure and uh great to revisit Mars
00:32:10 --> 00:32:11 again. Your favorite planet.
00:32:11 --> 00:32:12 >> Yeah, it's Well, it's got a lot to tell,
00:32:12 --> 00:32:14 hasn't it? That's that's what makes it
00:32:14 --> 00:32:18 exciting. Yeah, we've got um um so much
00:32:18 --> 00:32:20 going on there and there's always news
00:32:20 --> 00:32:22 almost every day coming out of Mars.
00:32:22 --> 00:32:24 Yeah. Fascinating. Thanks, Rick. We'll
00:32:24 --> 00:32:25 catch you real soon.
00:32:25 --> 00:32:27 >> That sounds great. See you soon.
00:32:27 --> 00:32:29 >> See you. Uh and uh don't forget to visit
00:32:30 --> 00:32:32 our website uh between episodes. You can
00:32:32 --> 00:32:34 do that at spaceodcast.com.
00:32:34 --> 00:32:36 spacenuts.io.
00:32:36 --> 00:32:38 have a look around. You can get your uh
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00:32:59 --> 00:33:01 Uh and don't forget our social media as
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00:33:03 --> 00:33:06 people uh or meet other people that uh
00:33:06 --> 00:33:08 listen to Space Nuts. Uh that's the
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00:33:15 --> 00:33:17 thanks to Hugh in the studio who
00:33:17 --> 00:33:18 couldn't be with us today because he's
00:33:18 --> 00:33:20 in Brisbane.
00:33:20 --> 00:33:22 That's funny for a lot of reasons that
00:33:22 --> 00:33:24 no one will understand, but um anyway,
00:33:24 --> 00:33:26 we'll leave it there. And from me,
00:33:26 --> 00:33:28 Andrew Dunley, uh thanks for your
00:33:28 --> 00:33:29 company. We'll catch you on the next
00:33:29 --> 00:33:31 episode of Space Nuts. Bye-bye.
00:33:31 --> 00:33:32 >> Space Nuts.
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