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Space Nuts: NASA's Starliner, Retrograde Exoplanets, and the Square Kilometre Array
In this thought-provoking episode of Space Nuts , hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson delve into some of the latest developments in space exploration. They kick off with NASA's recent decision to stick with Boeing's Starliner for additional crewed missions, despite its rocky history. The conversation then shifts to the intriguing discovery of the exoplanet GJ 3090B, which is orbiting its star in the opposite direction, raising questions about planet formation and dynamics. Finally, they explore the innovative designs behind the Square Kilometre Array, examining how nature-inspired layouts may enhance its functionality while addressing technical challenges. Join Andrew and Fred Watson as they unravel these cosmic stories with their signature blend of wit and insight.
Key topics
- NASA's ongoing collaboration with Boeing for the Starliner missions and its implications for future space travel.
- The unusual retrograde orbit of exoplanet GJ 3090B and what it reveals about planetary systems.
- The design and challenges of the Square Kilometre Array and its nature-inspired antenna layout.
Timestamps
00:00 - Introduction and overview of today's topics
01:20 - Discussion on NASA's partnership with Boeing and the Starliner missions
15:30 - Exploration of the retrograde orbit of exoplanet GJ 3090B
25:00 - Insights into the Square Kilometre Array and its innovative designs
35:15 - Final thoughts and listener engagement
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Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/35866115?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:01 Hello, thank you for
00:00:01 --> 00:00:01 joining us.
00:00:02 --> 00:00:03 This is "Space Nuts".
00:00:03 --> 00:00:04 My name is Andrew
00:00:04 --> 00:00:05 Dunkley, your host, and
00:00:05 --> 00:00:05 thank you for
00:00:05 --> 00:00:06 joining us
00:00:06 --> 00:00:07 today and every day
00:00:07 --> 00:00:08 that you've listened to us
00:00:08 --> 00:00:09 for the last
00:00:09 --> 00:00:10 decade or
00:00:10 --> 00:00:11 more. This is great. Uh,
00:00:11 --> 00:00:12 what are we
00:00:12 --> 00:00:14 going to talk about next? Good. Uh
00:00:14 --> 00:00:16 , we'll talk about NASA
00:00:16 --> 00:00:17 and its collaboration with
00:00:17 --> 00:00:19 Boeing Starliner. There is news.
00:00:19 --> 00:00:20 We also have
00:00:20 --> 00:00:21 reports of
00:00:21 --> 00:00:22 an exoplanet
00:00:22 --> 00:00:24 orbiting
00:00:24 --> 00:00:25 its star in reverse.
00:00:25 --> 00:00:27 Uh, I don't know why, and I don't
00:00:27 --> 00:00:28 think anyone else has
00:00:28 --> 00:00:30 figured it out. And the
00:00:30 --> 00:00:30 Square
00:00:30 --> 00:00:31 Kilometer Grid
00:00:31 --> 00:00:33 is talked about in the news
00:00:33 --> 00:00:34 because it gets
00:00:34 --> 00:00:35 help from nature,
00:00:35 --> 00:00:36 and maybe it doesn't. We will
00:00:36 --> 00:00:37 also reveal this.
00:00:38 --> 00:00:39 All of this in this
00:00:39 --> 00:00:40 episode of "Space
00:00:40 --> 00:00:41 Nuts."
00:00:41 --> 00:00:43 15 seconds,
00:00:43 --> 00:00:44 internal guidance. 10, 9,
00:00:44 --> 00:00:45 beginning of the
00:00:46 --> 00:00:47 ignition sequence. "
00:00:47 --> 00:00:48 Space Nuts".
00:00:48 --> 00:00:53 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2
00:00:53 --> 00:00:53 1 "
00:00:53 --> 00:00:54 Space Nuts".
00:00:55 --> 00:00:55 This is a report about the
00:00:55 --> 00:00:56 crazy. This is
00:00:56 --> 00:00:57 nice.
00:00:57 --> 00:00:58 We are joined, as usual, by
00:00:58 --> 00:00:59 his
00:00:59 --> 00:01:00 good man,
00:01:00 --> 00:01:01 Professor Fred Watson,
00:01:01 --> 00:01:02 astronomer in general. A
00:01:02 --> 00:01:03 very patient man,
00:01:03 --> 00:01:05 Fred. How many times have
00:01:05 --> 00:01:06 we tried
00:01:06 --> 00:01:07 to start this episode?
00:01:08 --> 00:01:09 Well, I...er...can't
00:01:09 --> 00:01:10 say anything because I was
00:01:10 --> 00:01:11 late
00:01:12 --> 00:01:13 joining you anyway,
00:01:13 --> 00:01:14 so it was one of
00:01:14 --> 00:01:15 those days. And so it
00:01:15 --> 00:01:17 was. It seems like everything
00:01:17 --> 00:01:18 went wrong. Yes,
00:01:18 --> 00:01:20 you know. That's how it sometimes
00:01:20 --> 00:01:22 happens. And this is the internet
00:01:22 --> 00:01:24 , right? But
00:01:24 --> 00:01:24 we had such
00:01:24 --> 00:01:26 problems on the radio before.
00:01:26 --> 00:01:27 You were just doing something, and
00:01:27 --> 00:01:28 then you just
00:01:28 --> 00:01:28 turned off
00:01:28 --> 00:01:30 the power supply, and all hell
00:01:30 --> 00:01:31 broke loose. It
00:01:31 --> 00:01:33 was never fun
00:01:33 --> 00:01:34 . Uh, or you had a
00:01:35 --> 00:01:36 power outage, and
00:01:36 --> 00:01:37 when the power came back on
00:01:37 --> 00:01:38 , because it was
00:01:38 --> 00:01:39 later in my
00:01:39 --> 00:01:40 career, because it was
00:01:40 --> 00:01:41 digital technology,
00:01:41 --> 00:01:42 the microphone worked,
00:01:43 --> 00:01:45 but nothing else. And
00:01:45 --> 00:01:46 you just had to
00:01:46 --> 00:01:47 keep
00:01:47 --> 00:01:48 talking and talking and
00:01:48 --> 00:01:49 talking until everything
00:01:49 --> 00:01:50 rebooted.
00:01:50 --> 00:01:51 As with analog
00:01:51 --> 00:01:52 equipment, it
00:01:52 --> 00:01:53 just turned
00:01:53 --> 00:01:54 back on and you pressed the
00:01:54 --> 00:01:55 play button.
00:01:55 --> 00:01:55 Yes.
00:01:55 --> 00:01:56 But with digital
00:01:56 --> 00:01:57 equipment, no, it's
00:01:57 --> 00:01:59 not that simple. And that's exactly what
00:01:59 --> 00:02:00 we had
00:02:00 --> 00:02:01 today. I'm not afraid to
00:02:01 --> 00:02:02 touch the panel because
00:02:02 --> 00:02:04 I'm afraid it might
00:02:04 --> 00:02:05 throw a shaky thing at me
00:02:05 --> 00:02:08 . And you know, she, um
00:02:08 --> 00:02:09 , sometimes does
00:02:09 --> 00:02:12 really weird things. Oh,
00:02:12 --> 00:02:16 you understand? Very
00:02:16 --> 00:02:17 scary things. I did
00:02:17 --> 00:02:18 n't know you were
00:02:18 --> 00:02:19 playing a record there.
00:02:20 --> 00:02:21 Yeah, I don't know what
00:02:21 --> 00:02:22 this button does.
00:02:23 --> 00:02:27 OK. Uh, I don't know
00:02:27 --> 00:02:30 what else is here.
00:02:30 --> 00:02:31 Anyway, hmm...Oh, that's
00:02:31 --> 00:02:34 famous. NASA sound. Yes.
00:02:34 --> 00:02:36 Mhm. It's
00:02:36 --> 00:02:38 in my system. Uh,
00:02:38 --> 00:02:39 now I need to
00:02:39 --> 00:02:40 find where I
00:02:40 --> 00:02:41 need to be so we
00:02:41 --> 00:02:42 can do this show.
00:02:43 --> 00:02:45 And I think that's it.
00:02:45 --> 00:02:46 Okay, Fred, thanks for
00:02:46 --> 00:02:48 your patience. Uh,
00:02:48 --> 00:02:49 what are we talking about?
00:02:50 --> 00:02:51 Let's start with
00:02:51 --> 00:02:53 this, um,
00:02:53 --> 00:02:54 NASA announcement that
00:02:54 --> 00:02:55 came out recently. Well, it's
00:02:55 --> 00:02:56 Monday our
00:02:56 --> 00:02:57 time, but it will be
00:02:58 --> 00:02:59 a few
00:02:59 --> 00:03:01 weeks before this podcast is released. But, yeah, it's a
00:03:01 --> 00:03:02 really interesting
00:03:02 --> 00:03:04 announcement because
00:03:04 --> 00:03:05 a lot of people want
00:03:05 --> 00:03:06 to work with NASA, and I
00:03:06 --> 00:03:08 think this is a case
00:03:08 --> 00:03:09 where, you know, they
00:03:09 --> 00:03:10 had options and they
00:03:10 --> 00:03:12 decided they could
00:03:12 --> 00:03:13 stay with Boeing in
00:03:13 --> 00:03:16 that regard. Maybe
00:03:16 --> 00:03:17 you should fill in
00:03:17 --> 00:03:18 the blanks, because I might be
00:03:18 --> 00:03:19 crossing out
00:03:19 --> 00:03:20 stories here.
00:03:22 --> 00:03:23 Absolutely not. So, the
00:03:26 --> 00:03:28 current state of affairs with
00:03:28 --> 00:03:29 the delivery of
00:03:29 --> 00:03:30 astronauts to the
00:03:30 --> 00:03:31 International Space
00:03:31 --> 00:03:33 Station is such that SpaceX,
00:03:33 --> 00:03:34 with its
00:03:34 --> 00:03:35 Crew Dragon spacecraft and
00:03:35 --> 00:03:37 Falcon 9 launch vehicle, has been
00:03:41 --> 00:03:42 successfully delivering
00:03:43 --> 00:03:44 NASA astronauts to the
00:03:44 --> 00:03:45 space station and
00:03:45 --> 00:03:46 back for over 6
00:03:47 --> 00:03:49 years. It does
00:03:49 --> 00:03:50 n't seem like that long,
00:03:50 --> 00:03:52 but it is exactly that long. And
00:03:52 --> 00:03:54 but at the very beginning of
00:03:54 --> 00:03:59 this process, NASA
00:03:59 --> 00:04:00 also, in addition to
00:04:00 --> 00:04:01 inviting SpaceX to
00:04:01 --> 00:04:03 bid on
00:04:03 --> 00:04:04 this job, this
00:04:04 --> 00:04:06 taxi job that transports
00:04:06 --> 00:04:07 astronauts,
00:04:07 --> 00:04:08 also invited Boeing.
00:04:12 --> 00:04:13 And their equivalent of
00:04:13 --> 00:04:14 Crew Dragon is the
00:04:14 --> 00:04:18 Starliner ship. Um, but he
00:04:18 --> 00:04:20 had problems, um,
00:04:20 --> 00:04:22 significant problems in 2019
00:04:22 --> 00:04:25 and 2022. Um, and
00:04:25 --> 00:04:27 then again in June
00:04:27 --> 00:04:28 2024, when there were
00:04:28 --> 00:04:30 two astronauts on board.
00:04:31 --> 00:04:31 Yes.
00:04:33 --> 00:04:35 And there was this, um, epic,
00:04:35 --> 00:04:35 um, decision not to
00:04:36 --> 00:04:36 return these
00:04:36 --> 00:04:38 astronauts to the Starliner
00:04:38 --> 00:04:39 because there were
00:04:39 --> 00:04:40 engine problems
00:04:40 --> 00:04:41 during docking with the
00:04:41 --> 00:04:42 International
00:04:42 --> 00:04:43 Space Station. There
00:04:47 --> 00:04:48 was no
00:04:48 --> 00:04:49 desire to take any chances,
00:04:49 --> 00:04:50 um, you know, with those
00:04:50 --> 00:04:51 crew members
00:04:51 --> 00:04:52 returning in a
00:04:52 --> 00:04:54 dangerous ship
00:04:54 --> 00:04:56 . So Starliner is back
00:04:56 --> 00:04:56 .
00:04:56 --> 00:04:57 They wouldn't have
00:04:57 --> 00:04:59 come back at all if...
00:04:59 --> 00:05:00 That's right, yes. That's
00:05:00 --> 00:05:03 right, yes. Um, and
00:05:03 --> 00:05:04 Starliner actually
00:05:04 --> 00:05:05 sent it
00:05:05 --> 00:05:06 back on its own, and
00:05:06 --> 00:05:07 it eventually made a
00:05:07 --> 00:05:09 perfect landing, but did
00:05:09 --> 00:05:10 that leave those two
00:05:10 --> 00:05:11 crew members behind
00:05:11 --> 00:05:12 for long? It was 8
00:05:12 --> 00:05:14 months or something,
00:05:14 --> 00:05:15 right?
00:05:15 --> 00:05:16 It took a long time, and
00:05:16 --> 00:05:17 part of the reason
00:05:17 --> 00:05:18 was that their
00:05:18 --> 00:05:19 spacesuits
00:05:19 --> 00:05:21 weren't compatible with...uh,
00:05:21 --> 00:05:22 was that Crew Dragon?
00:05:22 --> 00:05:23 That's right. That's
00:05:23 --> 00:05:24 right.
00:05:24 --> 00:05:26 It's just like that. Yes, this is
00:05:26 --> 00:05:27 madness.
00:05:30 --> 00:05:31 So, yeah, so Boeing,
00:05:31 --> 00:05:32 um, was picking up the pieces of
00:05:32 --> 00:05:34 this and, um, essentially
00:05:34 --> 00:05:35 modifying the
00:05:35 --> 00:05:36 Starliner design, and,
00:05:36 --> 00:05:37 um, there were some
00:05:37 --> 00:05:39 negotiations going on about the amount of
00:05:39 --> 00:05:40 money involved,
00:05:40 --> 00:05:42 because of course, these are
00:05:42 --> 00:05:49 not cheap options. Eh,
00:05:49 --> 00:05:51 but, um, now there's, um, a
00:05:51 --> 00:05:52 deal that, um,
00:05:52 --> 00:05:53 maybe surprised
00:05:53 --> 00:05:55 Boeing, probably not because
00:05:55 --> 00:05:56 they already
00:05:56 --> 00:05:58 know very well what
00:05:58 --> 00:06:04 these deals are going to be. But
00:06:04 --> 00:06:05 NASA will exercise
00:06:05 --> 00:06:06 its options to
00:06:06 --> 00:06:07 order two
00:06:07 --> 00:06:09 additional primitive
00:06:09 --> 00:06:10 missions on Starliner, bringing the
00:06:10 --> 00:06:11 total
00:06:11 --> 00:06:12 number of
00:06:12 --> 00:06:13 spaceflights they have
00:06:13 --> 00:06:15 ordered on Starliner to
00:06:15 --> 00:06:19 six. And I guess I don't
00:06:19 --> 00:06:20 know how many of them have
00:06:20 --> 00:06:22 already happened,
00:06:22 --> 00:06:23 because I don't know if the one
00:06:23 --> 00:06:24 who, um, left those
00:06:24 --> 00:06:26 astronauts is among
00:06:26 --> 00:06:32 them. But, um, what
00:06:32 --> 00:06:33 really
00:06:33 --> 00:06:34 interests me about this, uh,
00:06:34 --> 00:06:35 article, Andrew, is
00:06:35 --> 00:06:36 the comment by
00:06:36 --> 00:06:37 NASA administrator,
00:06:37 --> 00:06:38 NASA chief, uh,
00:06:38 --> 00:06:40 Jared Isaacman,
00:06:40 --> 00:06:41 who said, "I don't
00:06:41 --> 00:06:42 think it's a secret
00:06:42 --> 00:06:43 that SpaceX intends to
00:06:43 --> 00:06:45 phase out
00:06:45 --> 00:06:46 older platforms
00:06:46 --> 00:06:47 like Falcon and Dragon
00:06:47 --> 00:06:48 as they
00:06:48 --> 00:06:49 focus on
00:06:49 --> 00:06:51 their
00:06:51 --> 00:06:52 next-generation capability
00:06:52 --> 00:07:00 , Starship." Uh, and that's
00:07:00 --> 00:07:02 consistent with what I
00:07:02 --> 00:07:02 heard, uh, when I
00:07:03 --> 00:07:04 was listening recently about the
00:07:04 --> 00:07:06 Starship launch, Flight 14.
00:07:06 --> 00:07:07 Uh, some of the comments
00:07:07 --> 00:07:08 were
00:07:08 --> 00:07:09 like, um, SpaceX is
00:07:09 --> 00:07:11 dedicating
00:07:11 --> 00:07:12 its future launch vehicle
00:07:12 --> 00:07:13 operations entirely to
00:07:13 --> 00:07:17 Starship. And it looks like the
00:07:17 --> 00:07:19 Falcon, even though
00:07:19 --> 00:07:20 it was an
00:07:20 --> 00:07:21 absolutely historic
00:07:21 --> 00:07:23 and epic, uh, and a very
00:07:23 --> 00:07:24 reliable launch vehicle,
00:07:25 --> 00:07:26 uh, ever since they
00:07:26 --> 00:07:27 learned how to bring
00:07:28 --> 00:07:29 it, uh, back to the ground to
00:07:30 --> 00:07:31 reuse, uh,
00:07:31 --> 00:07:33 back in 2015, it looks like
00:07:33 --> 00:07:34 its time is numbered, or
00:07:34 --> 00:07:38 its days are numbered. Uh, and
00:07:38 --> 00:07:40 that fits with Elon Musk's almost
00:07:40 --> 00:07:40 boundless
00:07:40 --> 00:07:42 enthusiasm
00:07:42 --> 00:07:43 for getting
00:07:43 --> 00:07:44 Starship to the point where
00:07:44 --> 00:07:46 he can launch,
00:07:46 --> 00:07:47 wait for it, Andrew, 1
00:07:47 --> 00:07:48 Starships a year.
00:07:51 --> 00:07:51 Oho.
00:07:52 --> 00:07:54 What was he up to? What is it?
00:07:54 --> 00:07:55 Three a day?
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58 Yes, and they will be
00:07:58 --> 00:07:59 transporting who knows
00:07:59 --> 00:08:01 what. A lot of his stuff,
00:08:01 --> 00:08:02 of course.
00:08:02 --> 00:08:04 Yes, they will be...Yes,
00:08:04 --> 00:08:05 uh...Starlink satellites
00:08:05 --> 00:08:06 will be an integral
00:08:06 --> 00:08:07 part of this. The
00:08:09 --> 00:08:09 recent
00:08:10 --> 00:08:11 test flight of
00:08:11 --> 00:08:13 14, there were 26
00:08:13 --> 00:08:14 Starlink version 3 satellites, which
00:08:14 --> 00:08:15 have much
00:08:15 --> 00:08:16 greater capabilities in
00:08:16 --> 00:08:20 terms of, you know,
00:08:20 --> 00:08:21 telecommunications. This is a
00:08:21 --> 00:08:22 much higher
00:08:22 --> 00:08:23 throughput.
00:08:24 --> 00:08:29 It was a test.
00:08:29 --> 00:08:30 I think they
00:08:30 --> 00:08:31 can launch up to 60
00:08:31 --> 00:08:33 of them in an empty
00:08:33 --> 00:08:35 Starship. 60 in an empty
00:08:35 --> 00:08:38 Starship. But of course, there's
00:08:38 --> 00:08:40 another aspect to this, and that's where
00:08:40 --> 00:08:41 SpaceX really
00:08:41 --> 00:08:42 needs to come together
00:08:42 --> 00:08:49 . Starship is one of
00:08:49 --> 00:08:50 two manned spacecraft
00:08:51 --> 00:08:51 selected for
00:08:52 --> 00:08:53 competitive testing
00:08:53 --> 00:08:59 for the Artemis project.
00:08:59 --> 00:09:00 Artemis 3, the flight
00:09:00 --> 00:09:01 that will do this,
00:09:01 --> 00:09:02 is scheduled for
00:09:02 --> 00:09:03 early next
00:09:03 --> 00:09:06 year. Sorry, by
00:09:06 --> 00:09:07 the end of next
00:09:07 --> 00:09:10 year. It is
00:09:10 --> 00:09:11 scheduled for
00:09:11 --> 00:09:12 late 2027, where
00:09:14 --> 00:09:15 Blue Origin's Blue Moon lander and
00:09:16 --> 00:09:17 SpaceX's Starship lander will be
00:09:17 --> 00:09:18 tested in
00:09:18 --> 00:09:20 orbit, along with the
00:09:20 --> 00:09:21 Orion capsule that will
00:09:21 --> 00:09:21 take
00:09:22 --> 00:09:23 astronauts to the
00:09:23 --> 00:09:27 Moon. Or in the vicinity of
00:09:27 --> 00:09:28 the Moon. One of these
00:09:28 --> 00:09:29 two
00:09:29 --> 00:09:30 landers will actually
00:09:30 --> 00:09:31 drop them to the
00:09:31 --> 00:09:32 surface, and we don't
00:09:32 --> 00:09:34 know which one yet. I'm
00:09:34 --> 00:09:35 not a fan of betting, but
00:09:35 --> 00:09:36 honestly,
00:09:36 --> 00:09:37 given the
00:09:37 --> 00:09:38 terrain
00:09:38 --> 00:09:39 they'll be trying to
00:09:39 --> 00:09:40 land on near the
00:09:40 --> 00:09:41 south pole of the
00:09:41 --> 00:09:42 moon, I'm not
00:09:42 --> 00:09:43 sure that something
00:09:43 --> 00:09:44 long, thin, and
00:09:44 --> 00:09:45 52 meters tall is
00:09:45 --> 00:09:46 really going to be
00:09:46 --> 00:09:47 anything special,
00:09:47 --> 00:09:49 considering how many
00:09:49 --> 00:09:50 things have fallen on the
00:09:50 --> 00:09:51 lunar surface
00:09:51 --> 00:09:51 before.
00:09:51 --> 00:09:53 Yes, that seems to be a
00:09:53 --> 00:09:56 factor. And you know,
00:09:56 --> 00:09:57 if he shifts
00:09:57 --> 00:09:58 his attention to other
00:09:58 --> 00:09:59 things, maybe that will be
00:09:59 --> 00:10:01 taken into account when they
00:10:01 --> 00:10:02 make a decision
00:10:02 --> 00:10:08 . Yes, I'm interested in
00:10:08 --> 00:10:08 how
00:10:09 --> 00:10:10 competitive
00:10:10 --> 00:10:11 private space
00:10:11 --> 00:10:13 companies are becoming, because there are
00:10:13 --> 00:10:14 Blue Origin, SpaceX, Boeing and Airbus,
00:10:14 --> 00:10:16 because they
00:10:16 --> 00:10:22 work closely with ESA. And
00:10:22 --> 00:10:22 you know, there are several
00:10:23 --> 00:10:23 other countries that are
00:10:23 --> 00:10:25 pursuing
00:10:25 --> 00:10:26 space programs today, and
00:10:26 --> 00:10:27 they are becoming increasingly
00:10:27 --> 00:10:28 competitive, but they are
00:10:28 --> 00:10:30 also developing
00:10:30 --> 00:10:31 at the speed of knots.
00:10:33 --> 00:10:34 We see technologies
00:10:34 --> 00:10:35 that
00:10:35 --> 00:10:36 are developing very
00:10:36 --> 00:10:38 rapidly now. Um,
00:10:38 --> 00:10:39 that's right.
00:10:39 --> 00:10:40 And I think if you
00:10:40 --> 00:10:41 look back at
00:10:41 --> 00:10:42 when it all started,
00:10:42 --> 00:10:43 it was a slow
00:10:43 --> 00:10:44 growth, so to
00:10:44 --> 00:10:46 speak. Um, but now it is
00:10:46 --> 00:10:46 .
00:10:47 --> 00:10:47 Now it is
00:10:48 --> 00:10:48 accelerating at an
00:10:49 --> 00:10:49 incredible
00:10:49 --> 00:10:50 rate.
00:10:51 --> 00:10:55 Yes. I mean,
00:10:55 --> 00:10:56 you highlighted
00:10:56 --> 00:11:01 the fact here that when it
00:11:01 --> 00:11:02 wasn't
00:11:02 --> 00:11:03 competitive
00:11:03 --> 00:11:04 , when it was only
00:11:04 --> 00:11:05 NASA doing it, they really
00:11:05 --> 00:11:07 took very small
00:11:07 --> 00:11:08 steps to advance
00:11:08 --> 00:11:08 things, just to
00:11:09 --> 00:11:12 play it safe. Um,
00:11:12 --> 00:11:13 but when you have
00:11:13 --> 00:11:14 competition, they're
00:11:14 --> 00:11:15 going to take risks, and of
00:11:16 --> 00:11:17 course Elon Musk
00:11:17 --> 00:11:19 has taken risks in the past,
00:11:19 --> 00:11:20 although, um, he was very risk-
00:11:20 --> 00:11:21 averse with Starship
00:11:21 --> 00:11:23 , uh, Flight 14, uh, and I
00:11:23 --> 00:11:24 think that was one
00:11:25 --> 00:11:26 of the reasons they
00:11:26 --> 00:11:28 cut him. It was
00:11:28 --> 00:11:29 reduced from 6 hours,
00:11:29 --> 00:11:31 sorry, six orbits
00:11:31 --> 00:11:33 to, I think, two, uh
00:11:33 --> 00:11:34 , from uh, from 10 hours in
00:11:34 --> 00:11:37 space to three. Uh,
00:11:37 --> 00:11:37 so it's
00:11:37 --> 00:11:38 symptomatic of
00:11:38 --> 00:11:39 this slightly more
00:11:39 --> 00:11:40 enthusiastic
00:11:40 --> 00:11:44 attitude. But
00:11:44 --> 00:11:45 nevertheless, I think, um,
00:11:45 --> 00:11:46 obviously the space
00:11:46 --> 00:11:48 industry, the commercial
00:11:48 --> 00:11:49 enterprises,
00:11:50 --> 00:11:51 take the
00:11:51 --> 00:11:52 safety of their
00:11:52 --> 00:11:53 crews extremely seriously, uh, but
00:11:53 --> 00:11:54 they can
00:11:54 --> 00:11:55 advance it, um,
00:11:55 --> 00:11:56 much faster if they
00:11:56 --> 00:11:57 have financial
00:11:57 --> 00:11:58 support that doesn't
00:11:58 --> 00:12:00 require
00:12:00 --> 00:12:01 government approval and so on, which is essentially what's
00:12:02 --> 00:12:03 happening, uh, in
00:12:03 --> 00:12:04 this, in this
00:12:04 --> 00:12:09 space. Um, another
00:12:09 --> 00:12:10 piece that seems to be
00:12:10 --> 00:12:12 woven into this
00:12:12 --> 00:12:13 discussion, Andrew,
00:12:13 --> 00:12:14 is that NASA
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16 is considering
00:12:16 --> 00:12:17 extending the
00:12:17 --> 00:12:19 life of the International
00:12:19 --> 00:12:20 Space Station until
00:12:20 --> 00:12:24 2032. They have been
00:12:24 --> 00:12:25 saying for a long time that
00:12:25 --> 00:12:26 it will end by
00:12:27 --> 00:12:28 2030, but it looks like it
00:12:28 --> 00:12:29 may be
00:12:29 --> 00:12:30 extended; and
00:12:30 --> 00:12:31 of course, this, uh,
00:12:31 --> 00:12:32 actually, uh,
00:12:32 --> 00:12:34 underscores the need for
00:12:34 --> 00:12:35 Starliner because, uh,
00:12:35 --> 00:12:36 Crew Dragon will probably be
00:12:37 --> 00:12:38 decommissioned by
00:12:38 --> 00:12:40 2030, uh, and so Starliner
00:12:40 --> 00:12:41 will be the only
00:12:41 --> 00:12:42 American
00:12:42 --> 00:12:43 ship that can
00:12:43 --> 00:12:44 get to the
00:12:44 --> 00:12:46 space station.
00:12:46 --> 00:12:48 Soyuz flights will still
00:12:48 --> 00:12:48 continue, I'm
00:12:49 --> 00:12:50 sure, but, uh,
00:12:50 --> 00:12:51 Starliner will be, uh, the
00:12:51 --> 00:12:52 vehicle of
00:12:52 --> 00:12:54 choice
00:12:54 --> 00:12:55 for carrying
00:12:55 --> 00:12:55 people.
00:12:56 --> 00:12:57 Hmm. So it makes sense that NASA
00:12:58 --> 00:12:59 announced these
00:12:59 --> 00:13:00 options to
00:13:00 --> 00:13:01 continue their work.
00:13:01 --> 00:13:03 So, uh. Yes.
00:13:03 --> 00:13:03 Absolutely. Uh
00:13:04 --> 00:13:06 -huh. Yeah, it's a good
00:13:06 --> 00:13:10 deal, and, you know, I
00:13:10 --> 00:13:11 think we're still
00:13:11 --> 00:13:13 just in the
00:13:13 --> 00:13:14 early stages of
00:13:14 --> 00:13:15 private
00:13:15 --> 00:13:16 operators in space,
00:13:16 --> 00:13:18 and you know what's going to happen
00:13:18 --> 00:13:19 in 50 or 100 years? It's
00:13:19 --> 00:13:21 just hard to imagine.
00:13:21 --> 00:13:21 Absolutely.
00:13:22 --> 00:13:22 Yes.
00:13:22 --> 00:13:24 Well, listen, Elon
00:13:24 --> 00:13:25 wants us all to be
00:13:25 --> 00:13:26 on Mars by then,
00:13:26 --> 00:13:27 so
00:13:27 --> 00:13:28 yeah. Yes. I think in the
00:13:28 --> 00:13:29 meantime we'll
00:13:29 --> 00:13:30 probably have a few
00:13:30 --> 00:13:31 hotels in space
00:13:31 --> 00:13:32 within the next 100
00:13:32 --> 00:13:34 years and you'll be able to
00:13:34 --> 00:13:36 vacation there. Maybe,
00:13:36 --> 00:13:37 if you want.
00:13:37 --> 00:13:38 Yes. If you are
00:13:38 --> 00:13:39 rich enough.
00:13:39 --> 00:13:40 Yeah, well, that would be it, would
00:13:40 --> 00:13:43 n't it? Although I think
00:13:43 --> 00:13:44 that once
00:13:44 --> 00:13:45 space travel becomes more
00:13:45 --> 00:13:47 common,
00:13:47 --> 00:13:50 the price will come down. There was a
00:13:50 --> 00:13:51 time when flying
00:13:51 --> 00:13:53 was only for the rich
00:13:53 --> 00:13:53 .
00:13:54 --> 00:13:56 This is true. This is true.
00:13:57 --> 00:13:58 But let me
00:13:58 --> 00:13:59 just give you
00:13:59 --> 00:14:00 some numbers. Um,
00:14:00 --> 00:14:00 yes.
00:14:01 --> 00:14:02 This is a quote from an article in
00:14:02 --> 00:14:06 Ars Technica. For the
00:14:06 --> 00:14:08 Starliner 2-Starliner 6 missions, NASA and
00:14:08 --> 00:14:09 Boeing have agreed on a
00:14:09 --> 00:14:10 price of approximately
00:14:11 --> 00:14:12 $90 million
00:14:12 --> 00:14:16 per seat. Yes,
00:14:17 --> 00:14:18 that's a pretty high price
00:14:18 --> 00:14:20 . This is already a step forward.
00:14:20 --> 00:14:22 I hope this is business
00:14:22 --> 00:14:23 class. But in
00:14:23 --> 00:14:24 any case.
00:14:24 --> 00:14:25 I'm sure that's how it
00:14:25 --> 00:14:26 is, in fact.
00:14:26 --> 00:14:29 Probably. It's definitely a
00:14:29 --> 00:14:31 faster flight than
00:14:31 --> 00:14:32 flying from Sydney to
00:14:32 --> 00:14:33 Istanbul, that's for sure.
00:14:34 --> 00:14:36 Yes, that's true. But,
00:14:36 --> 00:14:37 again, this is one
00:14:37 --> 00:14:38 of the applications that
00:14:38 --> 00:14:40 Elon sees in Star,
00:14:40 --> 00:14:42 sorry, in Starship. And the
00:14:42 --> 00:14:43 fact that you can
00:14:43 --> 00:14:44 do
00:14:44 --> 00:14:45 suborbital
00:14:45 --> 00:14:46 flights to
00:14:46 --> 00:14:47 get to
00:14:47 --> 00:14:48 Istanbul in 45 minutes
00:14:48 --> 00:14:49 from here.
00:14:49 --> 00:14:50 Yes. I think that's where the
00:14:50 --> 00:14:52 future will be.
00:14:52 --> 00:14:53 Maybe so. Maybe
00:14:53 --> 00:14:55 so. It will be
00:14:55 --> 00:14:56 close. If you
00:14:56 --> 00:14:58 want to read all
00:14:58 --> 00:14:59 about this particular
00:14:59 --> 00:15:01 deal between NASA and Boeing
00:15:01 --> 00:15:02 Starliner, you can
00:15:02 --> 00:15:03 do so, as
00:15:03 --> 00:15:05 Fred said at arstechnica.com. This is
00:15:05 --> 00:15:07 Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley
00:15:07 --> 00:15:08 and Professor Fred
00:15:08 --> 00:15:11 Watson. Let's
00:15:11 --> 00:15:12 take a quick
00:15:12 --> 00:15:13 break from the show to
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00:17:02 --> 00:17:03 Zero gravity and
00:17:03 --> 00:17:04 I feel good.
00:17:05 --> 00:17:06 Space fans.
00:17:06 --> 00:17:07 Okay, Fred, let's
00:17:07 --> 00:17:08 move on to the strange
00:17:09 --> 00:17:10 planet. And when I say
00:17:10 --> 00:17:11 strange planet, there are
00:17:11 --> 00:17:12 many strange planets
00:17:13 --> 00:17:14 that we have discovered,
00:17:14 --> 00:17:16 exoplanets. Over
00:17:16 --> 00:17:17 5 such planets have
00:17:17 --> 00:17:18 now been catalogued
00:17:18 --> 00:17:20 , and there are many more
00:17:20 --> 00:17:21 waiting in line to have
00:17:21 --> 00:17:22 their names
00:17:22 --> 00:17:24 added to their
00:17:24 --> 00:17:25 little black
00:17:25 --> 00:17:29 book. Um, but, uh, this,
00:17:29 --> 00:17:30 uh, in particular, GJ 3090 B, uh
00:17:30 --> 00:17:32 , is doing some strange
00:17:32 --> 00:17:33 things, and they
00:17:33 --> 00:17:34 don't really know
00:17:34 --> 00:17:36 why, but if they
00:17:36 --> 00:17:37 can figure out
00:17:37 --> 00:17:38 why, it could
00:17:38 --> 00:17:39 answer some
00:17:39 --> 00:17:40 really interesting
00:17:40 --> 00:17:41 questions about
00:17:41 --> 00:17:43 planet formation.
00:17:45 --> 00:17:47 Indeed, that is absolutely
00:17:47 --> 00:17:48 true. Uh, this is a
00:17:48 --> 00:17:48 study
00:17:48 --> 00:17:49 conducted by
00:17:50 --> 00:17:51 Queen Mary University of
00:17:51 --> 00:17:54 London. Uh, and this, uh,
00:17:54 --> 00:17:55 as you said, is a
00:17:55 --> 00:17:57 star, a planet, by
00:17:57 --> 00:17:58 the way, a planet,
00:17:58 --> 00:18:01 sorry. Uh, GJ 3090 B,
00:18:01 --> 00:18:03 it's about
00:18:03 --> 00:18:06 the size of Neptune. Er
00:18:06 --> 00:18:07 , er, I don't remember
00:18:07 --> 00:18:08 what its
00:18:08 --> 00:18:09 orbital period is. I
00:18:09 --> 00:18:10 think it's quite
00:18:11 --> 00:18:12 short. Usually
00:18:12 --> 00:18:13 things like that. But she is
00:18:13 --> 00:18:16 moving backwards. It's
00:18:16 --> 00:18:17 moving in the
00:18:17 --> 00:18:18 opposite
00:18:18 --> 00:18:19 direction around a
00:18:19 --> 00:18:20 star that
00:18:20 --> 00:18:22 will be called GJ 3090,
00:18:22 --> 00:18:23 uh, the parent
00:18:23 --> 00:18:25 star. It
00:18:25 --> 00:18:26 moves in the
00:18:26 --> 00:18:26 opposite
00:18:26 --> 00:18:27 direction to the one in
00:18:27 --> 00:18:29 which this
00:18:29 --> 00:18:32 star rotates. And this is a big
00:18:32 --> 00:18:34 surprise because, uh,
00:18:34 --> 00:18:35 all of our, all of our,
00:18:35 --> 00:18:36 all of our, uh, models of
00:18:36 --> 00:18:37 planet formation
00:18:37 --> 00:18:39 start with a cloud of
00:18:39 --> 00:18:40 gas and dust that
00:18:40 --> 00:18:41 collapses under its
00:18:41 --> 00:18:46 own gravity. And
00:18:46 --> 00:18:47 when it
00:18:47 --> 00:18:48 contracts, it
00:18:48 --> 00:18:49 causes it to rotate, uh
00:18:49 --> 00:18:51 , in a certain direction
00:18:51 --> 00:18:52 , and from this rotating
00:18:52 --> 00:18:53 blob of matter,
00:18:53 --> 00:18:54 both the star and
00:18:54 --> 00:18:55 its planets form, and that
00:18:55 --> 00:18:56 's why in our
00:18:56 --> 00:18:58 solar system, all the
00:18:58 --> 00:18:59 planets are
00:18:59 --> 00:19:00 in the same plane.
00:19:01 --> 00:19:02 They used to be in a
00:19:02 --> 00:19:03 disk, uh,
00:19:03 --> 00:19:04 called a
00:19:04 --> 00:19:05 protoplanetary
00:19:05 --> 00:19:06 disk, but they're all
00:19:06 --> 00:19:07 moving in the same
00:19:07 --> 00:19:08 direction as the
00:19:08 --> 00:19:09 Sun's rotation, and that's a
00:19:09 --> 00:19:10 fossil of
00:19:10 --> 00:19:14 rotation. So it's
00:19:14 --> 00:19:15 suggested that this
00:19:15 --> 00:19:16 particular planet is, uh
00:19:16 --> 00:19:17 , moving in the
00:19:17 --> 00:19:18 wrong
00:19:18 --> 00:19:19 direction because of some
00:19:19 --> 00:19:20 interaction that
00:19:20 --> 00:19:21 happened during
00:19:21 --> 00:19:27 its lifetime. Uh, this is the first
00:19:27 --> 00:19:28 known planet
00:19:28 --> 00:19:29 around, uh, an
00:19:29 --> 00:19:31 M-type dwarf that moves,
00:19:31 --> 00:19:32 uh, in what we
00:19:32 --> 00:19:33 call a
00:19:33 --> 00:19:34 retrograde orbit
00:19:34 --> 00:19:36 , a backward orbit. A
00:19:36 --> 00:19:37 retrograde orbit in
00:19:37 --> 00:19:38 the case of the Solar
00:19:38 --> 00:19:39 System, something
00:19:39 --> 00:19:39 moving
00:19:39 --> 00:19:40 retrogradely
00:19:40 --> 00:19:41 will move
00:19:42 --> 00:19:42 clockwise when
00:19:42 --> 00:19:43 viewed from above the
00:19:43 --> 00:19:45 North Pole. Uh
00:19:45 --> 00:19:46 , this is a reverse orbit.
00:19:47 --> 00:19:48 And in fact, not
00:19:49 --> 00:19:50 only is it rotating
00:19:50 --> 00:19:51 backwards, it is slightly
00:19:51 --> 00:19:52 tilted towards the equator of its
00:19:52 --> 00:19:53 parent star.
00:19:54 --> 00:19:55 You remember that all
00:19:55 --> 00:19:56 the planets in the solar
00:19:56 --> 00:19:58 system are
00:19:58 --> 00:19:59 in orbits in a plane
00:19:59 --> 00:20:00 that more or less
00:20:00 --> 00:20:01 coincides. This is not
00:20:01 --> 00:20:02 exactly true, but it more or
00:20:02 --> 00:20:03 less coincides with the
00:20:03 --> 00:20:04 equatorial
00:20:04 --> 00:20:05 plane of the Sun, its
00:20:05 --> 00:20:06 equatorial
00:20:06 --> 00:20:08 plane of rotation. Well
00:20:08 --> 00:20:09 , this one is tilted at a
00:20:09 --> 00:20:10 pretty significant angle
00:20:10 --> 00:20:11 towards it, if I
00:20:11 --> 00:20:12 remember correctly. I
00:20:12 --> 00:20:15 don't see the number here, but
00:20:15 --> 00:20:17 I think it was 136
00:20:17 --> 00:20:19 °, which is significantly more than 90
00:20:19 --> 00:20:21 °. Um, that would make it
00:20:21 --> 00:20:22 rotate over
00:20:22 --> 00:20:25 the poles of the star. Um,
00:20:25 --> 00:20:26 but this, um, this
00:20:26 --> 00:20:27 goes even further
00:20:27 --> 00:20:28 than that. It's
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30 actually moving
00:20:30 --> 00:20:31 backwards. And I think that,
00:20:31 --> 00:20:33 um, just to basically
00:20:33 --> 00:20:34 tie up a loose
00:20:34 --> 00:20:35 end, I think this is
00:20:35 --> 00:20:35 taken from
00:20:36 --> 00:20:36 observations
00:20:36 --> 00:20:37 made
00:20:37 --> 00:20:39 with the
00:20:39 --> 00:20:40 James
00:20:40 --> 00:20:42 Webb Space Telescope. Um, this is exactly an
00:20:42 --> 00:20:43 instrument, um, which is a
00:20:43 --> 00:20:44 near-
00:20:44 --> 00:20:45 infrared
00:20:45 --> 00:20:48 spectrometer. Um, and I
00:20:48 --> 00:20:49 think that's where he
00:20:49 --> 00:20:51 was, where or where that, um,
00:20:51 --> 00:20:52 where this,
00:20:52 --> 00:20:53 um, instrument is installed.
00:20:55 --> 00:20:56 It, um, has an
00:20:56 --> 00:20:59 orbital period
00:20:59 --> 00:21:01 of 2.85 to 2.9 Earth
00:21:01 --> 00:21:01 days.
00:21:01 --> 00:21:03 Yes, quickly.
00:21:03 --> 00:21:04 Yes. Uh, and, um, just in
00:21:04 --> 00:21:05 case
00:21:05 --> 00:21:06 people ask, "How do
00:21:06 --> 00:21:07 you know it's
00:21:08 --> 00:21:09 moving backwards?"
00:21:09 --> 00:21:10 Well, there is GJ 3090c, which is
00:21:10 --> 00:21:11 moving in the
00:21:11 --> 00:21:12 opposite
00:21:12 --> 00:21:13 direction.
00:21:14 --> 00:21:16 Yes, that's true. So
00:21:16 --> 00:21:17 the question you
00:21:17 --> 00:21:18 raised here, how do you
00:21:18 --> 00:21:19 know it's
00:21:19 --> 00:21:20 moving backwards,
00:21:22 --> 00:21:23 depends on a phenomenon
00:21:23 --> 00:21:24 whose name I
00:21:24 --> 00:21:25 can never remember, and
00:21:25 --> 00:21:27 it really annoys me
00:21:27 --> 00:21:28 . I should look for it.
00:21:28 --> 00:21:29 Maybe you can
00:21:29 --> 00:21:32 search. This, um, this is a
00:21:32 --> 00:21:33 phenomenon that allows you
00:21:33 --> 00:21:34 to see the direction of
00:21:34 --> 00:21:36 rotation... Oh, sorry
00:21:36 --> 00:21:37 , the direction of rotation of a
00:21:37 --> 00:21:38 planet around
00:21:38 --> 00:21:42 its star. You
00:21:42 --> 00:21:43 can very easily
00:21:43 --> 00:21:44 measure the rotation of a
00:21:44 --> 00:21:46 star by its spectrum,
00:21:46 --> 00:21:47 by how
00:21:47 --> 00:21:49 its spectrum behaves. Um,
00:21:49 --> 00:21:50 it's a little more
00:21:50 --> 00:21:51 complicated with a planet, but you
00:21:52 --> 00:21:53 can do it with a
00:21:53 --> 00:21:54 spectrum.
00:21:54 --> 00:21:55 But there is a phenomenon, and I
00:21:55 --> 00:21:56 can never
00:21:56 --> 00:21:57 remember its name,
00:21:57 --> 00:21:59 but don't worry about
00:21:59 --> 00:22:00 it, because, um, I bet
00:22:00 --> 00:22:01 you can't either
00:22:01 --> 00:22:02 .
00:22:02 --> 00:22:03 No, I can't
00:22:03 --> 00:22:03 find it.
00:22:03 --> 00:22:04 No.
00:22:04 --> 00:22:05 Additional
00:22:05 --> 00:22:06 information is needed.
00:22:06 --> 00:22:07 Yes, you would
00:22:07 --> 00:22:07 do that.
00:22:08 --> 00:22:09 So the bottom line is that
00:22:09 --> 00:22:10 they don't think it
00:22:11 --> 00:22:11 was caused by
00:22:12 --> 00:22:13 any kind of collision.
00:22:16 --> 00:22:17 They think that
00:22:17 --> 00:22:18 perhaps this star
00:22:18 --> 00:22:20 hit some
00:22:20 --> 00:22:21 material that
00:22:21 --> 00:22:22 was at a
00:22:22 --> 00:22:23 completely different angle, and
00:22:23 --> 00:22:24 perhaps created a
00:22:24 --> 00:22:25 planet that
00:22:25 --> 00:22:29 was in a
00:22:29 --> 00:22:31 retrograde orbit.
00:22:31 --> 00:22:32 That's right.
00:22:32 --> 00:22:32 Yes.
00:22:33 --> 00:22:34 There are several comments.
00:22:34 --> 00:22:35 I think, you know, I
00:22:35 --> 00:22:36 think you're right.
00:22:36 --> 00:22:38 I think you are absolutely
00:22:38 --> 00:22:39 right. There are several
00:22:39 --> 00:22:41 comments. One of
00:22:41 --> 00:22:42 them belongs to Vasan
00:22:42 --> 00:22:43 Bhuyer of the
00:22:43 --> 00:22:44 University of Geneva, who
00:22:44 --> 00:22:46 says: “The idea that a
00:22:46 --> 00:22:47 planetary system
00:22:47 --> 00:22:48 can be rebuilt from a
00:22:48 --> 00:22:49 second disk,
00:22:49 --> 00:22:50 oriented
00:22:50 --> 00:22:51 differently, is particularly
00:22:51 --> 00:22:54 exciting. It
00:22:54 --> 00:22:55 suggests that
00:22:55 --> 00:22:56 the environment around a
00:22:56 --> 00:22:57 young star may
00:22:57 --> 00:22:58 play a much
00:22:58 --> 00:22:59 larger role in
00:22:59 --> 00:23:00 determining
00:23:00 --> 00:23:00 the architecture of its
00:23:01 --> 00:23:02 planets than we might
00:23:02 --> 00:23:03 expect. He
00:23:03 --> 00:23:08 suggests that you have
00:23:08 --> 00:23:09 not one, but two
00:23:09 --> 00:23:09 planetary
00:23:10 --> 00:23:11 protoplanetary disks
00:23:11 --> 00:23:12 that are oriented
00:23:12 --> 00:23:13 differently; and this, as he
00:23:13 --> 00:23:15 says, is very exciting
00:23:15 --> 00:23:16 , this is an extraordinary
00:23:16 --> 00:23:20 offer. But there is
00:23:20 --> 00:23:21 another comment from
00:23:21 --> 00:23:23 someone from the
00:23:23 --> 00:23:26 University of Geneva. We have
00:23:26 --> 00:23:27 been looking for a massive
00:23:27 --> 00:23:28 satellite that could have
00:23:28 --> 00:23:29 forced the planet into
00:23:29 --> 00:23:30 such an
00:23:30 --> 00:23:31 extreme orbit,
00:23:31 --> 00:23:32 but we find no
00:23:32 --> 00:23:33 evidence of it. This
00:23:33 --> 00:23:34 suggests that
00:23:34 --> 00:23:35 we may
00:23:35 --> 00:23:36 need to
00:23:36 --> 00:23:37 think differently about how this
00:23:37 --> 00:23:38 system acquired its
00:23:38 --> 00:23:39 unusual
00:23:39 --> 00:23:40 architecture, which
00:23:40 --> 00:23:41 essentially goes back to
00:23:41 --> 00:23:42 that comment
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44 I just made. So it's a
00:23:44 --> 00:23:45 really, uh, really, really
00:23:45 --> 00:23:46 interesting question,
00:23:46 --> 00:23:48 and I know it's a pretty
00:23:48 --> 00:23:49 important story to be
00:23:49 --> 00:23:50 surprised about,
00:23:50 --> 00:23:51 to find something that
00:23:51 --> 00:23:53 turns upside down. That's
00:23:54 --> 00:23:56 it. Yes.
00:23:56 --> 00:23:57 I mean, we...
00:23:58 --> 00:23:59 There are planets in our solar system
00:23:59 --> 00:24:00 that do strange
00:24:00 --> 00:24:02 things, like they
00:24:02 --> 00:24:03 spin backwards
00:24:03 --> 00:24:04 or sideways, but we attribute all of that to
00:24:05 --> 00:24:06 possible
00:24:06 --> 00:24:08 collisions early in their
00:24:08 --> 00:24:08 history.
00:24:09 --> 00:24:09 Yes.
00:24:09 --> 00:24:10 So these are isolated
00:24:10 --> 00:24:11 instances, but we
00:24:11 --> 00:24:12 don't have a planet that
00:24:12 --> 00:24:13 actually
00:24:13 --> 00:24:14 rotates in the
00:24:14 --> 00:24:15 opposite
00:24:15 --> 00:24:15 direction.
00:24:15 --> 00:24:17 We don't have...but we do have
00:24:17 --> 00:24:18 some satellites. Uh,
00:24:18 --> 00:24:21 I think it's Neptune. Uh
00:24:21 --> 00:24:22 , maybe Uranus, but
00:24:22 --> 00:24:23 at least one of those
00:24:23 --> 00:24:23 two ice
00:24:24 --> 00:24:25 giants has planets
00:24:25 --> 00:24:26 that are spinning in the
00:24:26 --> 00:24:26 wrong
00:24:26 --> 00:24:27 direction, and that
00:24:27 --> 00:24:28 suggests that it's
00:24:28 --> 00:24:29 something that was
00:24:29 --> 00:24:30 captured, probably a
00:24:30 --> 00:24:31 trans-Neptunian
00:24:31 --> 00:24:32 object, you know, one of
00:24:32 --> 00:24:33 those icy
00:24:33 --> 00:24:34 asteroids deep in the
00:24:34 --> 00:24:35 solar system.
00:24:35 --> 00:24:37 Well, it's less likely in, uh, in
00:24:49 --> 00:24:51 But
00:24:51 --> 00:24:51 this is, I think, an
00:24:51 --> 00:24:53 extremely rare
00:24:53 --> 00:24:54 event, if, if it
00:24:54 --> 00:24:55 can ever
00:24:55 --> 00:24:57 happen at all. Uh, this is a bit
00:24:57 --> 00:24:58 different from
00:24:58 --> 00:24:59 the situation in our
00:24:59 --> 00:25:00 solar system, where there
00:25:00 --> 00:25:01 are candidate objects
00:25:01 --> 00:25:02 that could
00:25:02 --> 00:25:02 turn into
00:25:02 --> 00:25:03 satellites that are
00:25:03 --> 00:25:04 moving in the
00:25:04 --> 00:25:05 wrong
00:25:05 --> 00:25:05 direction. They are
00:25:05 --> 00:25:06 scattered throughout the
00:25:06 --> 00:25:07 outer
00:25:07 --> 00:25:08 solar system in
00:25:08 --> 00:25:09 the form of these
00:25:09 --> 00:25:10 trans-Neptunian
00:25:10 --> 00:25:11 objects. So, yeah,
00:25:11 --> 00:25:12 interesting stuff.
00:25:12 --> 00:25:14 Exciting. There may
00:25:14 --> 00:25:14 be more
00:25:14 --> 00:25:15 research on this
00:25:15 --> 00:25:16 , which I
00:25:16 --> 00:25:16 hope we
00:25:16 --> 00:25:17 can
00:25:17 --> 00:25:18 offer to our
00:25:18 --> 00:25:18 listeners.
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20 Yes, indeed. Perhaps
00:25:21 --> 00:25:21 something can be learned from this that
00:25:22 --> 00:25:22 will answer
00:25:23 --> 00:25:24 other questions. Who
00:25:24 --> 00:25:25 knows. That's the nature
00:25:25 --> 00:25:26 of astronomy, isn't it?
00:25:27 --> 00:25:27 Yes, yes.
00:25:29 --> 00:25:30 If you want to
00:25:30 --> 00:25:32 read the story,
00:25:32 --> 00:25:33 it's scitechdaily.com, or you
00:25:33 --> 00:25:35 can read the entire
00:25:35 --> 00:25:36 article, which was
00:25:36 --> 00:25:38 published in Astronomy
00:25:38 --> 00:25:40 and Astrophysics Letters. You're
00:25:40 --> 00:25:41 listening to Space Nuts, a
00:25:41 --> 00:25:42 podcast with Andrew Duckley
00:25:43 --> 00:25:44 and Professor Fred
00:25:44 --> 00:25:45 Watson.
00:25:47 --> 00:25:48 I'm going to get out of the
00:25:48 --> 00:25:52 lamb now. That's one
00:25:52 --> 00:25:53 small step for a
00:25:53 --> 00:25:57 man, one
00:25:57 --> 00:25:58 giant leap
00:25:58 --> 00:25:59 for mankind.
00:26:00 --> 00:26:00 Space Nuts.
00:26:02 --> 00:26:03 And I want to say
00:26:03 --> 00:26:04 hello to Alan. in
00:26:04 --> 00:26:05 Melbourne, who
00:26:05 --> 00:26:06 is listening live
00:26:06 --> 00:26:06 this
00:26:07 --> 00:26:08 morning. Fred, you might be
00:26:08 --> 00:26:08 interested
00:26:08 --> 00:26:10 to know that Alan is
00:26:10 --> 00:26:10 a postman, and he
00:26:10 --> 00:26:11 listens to us while
00:26:11 --> 00:26:13 he makes deliveries. And
00:26:13 --> 00:26:13 he says: "
00:26:13 --> 00:26:14 Keep up the great
00:26:14 --> 00:26:15 work." "
00:26:15 --> 00:26:16 Yes, that's great."
00:26:16 --> 00:26:17 You see, this is
00:26:17 --> 00:26:19 the peculiarity of
00:26:19 --> 00:26:20 such programs. You
00:26:20 --> 00:26:21 can listen to them
00:26:21 --> 00:26:22 anywhere, anytime,
00:26:22 --> 00:26:25 which is great. And now
00:26:25 --> 00:26:26 our last story
00:26:26 --> 00:26:28 today takes
00:26:28 --> 00:26:29 us to Washington,
00:26:29 --> 00:26:30 Western Australia, and
00:26:30 --> 00:26:31 it's about the Square
00:26:31 --> 00:26:36 Kilometre Array. And
00:26:36 --> 00:26:37 this story is a little
00:26:37 --> 00:26:38 different in that
00:26:38 --> 00:26:39 they're still building
00:26:39 --> 00:26:40 this thing, but it has
00:26:40 --> 00:26:41 all these little
00:26:42 --> 00:26:44 Christmas tree-shaped antennas that
00:26:44 --> 00:26:45 they're spreading out, but
00:26:45 --> 00:26:46 exactly how they spread them out is
00:26:47 --> 00:26:49 detailed in this story
00:26:49 --> 00:26:53 . But there may be a problem with this
00:26:53 --> 00:26:53 .
00:26:55 --> 00:26:56 I think that's
00:26:56 --> 00:26:57 right. That's
00:26:57 --> 00:26:59 right. And the reason
00:26:59 --> 00:27:00 I chose this
00:27:00 --> 00:27:01 story to talk about
00:27:01 --> 00:27:02 today, Andrew, is because
00:27:04 --> 00:27:05 when I was an astronomer
00:27:05 --> 00:27:06 in general, I was very
00:27:06 --> 00:27:07 close to the action in
00:27:07 --> 00:27:08 the design and
00:27:08 --> 00:27:09 construction of the
00:27:09 --> 00:27:10 Square
00:27:10 --> 00:27:11 Kilometre Array
00:27:11 --> 00:27:12 Low, SKA Low, as it's
00:27:12 --> 00:27:14 called. This is the
00:27:14 --> 00:27:15 low-frequency branch of the
00:27:16 --> 00:27:17 Square
00:27:17 --> 00:27:18 Kilometer Array observatory
00:27:18 --> 00:27:21 . Its medium-frequency
00:27:21 --> 00:27:22 branch is located in
00:27:22 --> 00:27:23 South Africa, and its
00:27:23 --> 00:27:24 headquarters
00:27:24 --> 00:27:25 are in the
00:27:25 --> 00:27:26 UK in the
00:27:26 --> 00:27:27 north of England at
00:27:27 --> 00:27:29 Jodrell Bank. And I do
00:27:30 --> 00:27:31 n't think I
00:27:31 --> 00:27:33 remember how many, um, um
00:27:33 --> 00:27:34 , um, um,
00:27:34 --> 00:27:36 member countries are in SKAO now.
00:27:36 --> 00:27:38 There were seven when I was
00:27:38 --> 00:27:39 involved. I think it's
00:27:39 --> 00:27:40 a little more now.
00:27:40 --> 00:27:42 So, um, um, a facility in
00:27:42 --> 00:27:43 Western Australia,
00:27:43 --> 00:27:44 it's in a
00:27:44 --> 00:27:45 place called
00:27:45 --> 00:27:46 Inyarrimanha Ilgari
00:27:46 --> 00:27:47 Bundara,
00:27:47 --> 00:27:48 Murchison
00:27:48 --> 00:27:49 Wide Field Array,
00:27:49 --> 00:27:50 Murchison
00:27:50 --> 00:27:51 Radio Astronomy
00:27:51 --> 00:27:52 Observatory, which is
00:27:52 --> 00:27:54 a name in the Wajarri language,
00:27:54 --> 00:27:55 which means the shared
00:27:55 --> 00:27:56 sky and stars. That's a
00:27:56 --> 00:27:57 great, um, great, um,
00:27:57 --> 00:27:58 indigenous name
00:27:58 --> 00:27:59 for an
00:27:59 --> 00:28:01 observatory. So,
00:28:01 --> 00:28:01 the plans of
00:28:01 --> 00:28:03 16 countries. 16
00:28:03 --> 00:28:04 registered.
00:28:05 --> 00:28:05 Hmm.
00:28:05 --> 00:28:06 Very good. Good
00:28:06 --> 00:28:08 to know. Thank you. Things have progressed quite a bit since
00:28:08 --> 00:28:09 I've been
00:28:09 --> 00:28:10 involved
00:28:10 --> 00:28:11 .
00:28:12 --> 00:28:14 Um, so, uh, the Square Kilometer
00:28:14 --> 00:28:15 Array Low is not the
00:28:15 --> 00:28:16 radio telescope
00:28:16 --> 00:28:17 we're all used to
00:28:17 --> 00:28:19 thinking of, which is a big
00:28:19 --> 00:28:20 antenna on a mount
00:28:20 --> 00:28:21 that lets you
00:28:21 --> 00:28:22 point it anywhere you want
00:28:22 --> 00:28:27 . And indeed,
00:28:27 --> 00:28:28 um, Square, SKA Mid, this is the
00:28:28 --> 00:28:29 mid-frequency
00:28:29 --> 00:28:30 arm of this
00:28:30 --> 00:28:31 telescope in um,
00:28:31 --> 00:28:32 South Africa,
00:28:32 --> 00:28:34 it consists of, I
00:28:34 --> 00:28:35 think, there will be... 197, uh,
00:28:35 --> 00:28:36 antennas that can be
00:28:36 --> 00:28:37 steered, which is what
00:28:37 --> 00:28:39 needs to be done at
00:28:39 --> 00:28:40 mid-frequency.
00:28:42 --> 00:28:42 But at low
00:28:42 --> 00:28:43 frequencies, you can
00:28:43 --> 00:28:44 do something a little
00:28:44 --> 00:28:47 trickier. You can
00:28:47 --> 00:28:48 mount the antenna
00:28:48 --> 00:28:49 vertically, and it
00:28:49 --> 00:28:50 will look like one of
00:28:50 --> 00:28:51 those old-fashioned
00:28:51 --> 00:28:52 TV antennas
00:28:52 --> 00:28:53 that we've seen on
00:28:53 --> 00:28:54 everyone's roofs, only
00:28:54 --> 00:28:55 instead of
00:28:56 --> 00:28:57 horizontally, it's
00:28:57 --> 00:28:57 pointed
00:28:57 --> 00:28:58 vertically, and it
00:28:58 --> 00:28:59 also has two, uh,
00:28:59 --> 00:29:02 segments. So it
00:29:02 --> 00:29:03 looks a lot like a
00:29:03 --> 00:29:04 Christmas tree, a
00:29:04 --> 00:29:05 metal Christmas
00:29:05 --> 00:29:06 tree
00:29:06 --> 00:29:10 about 2 meters tall. There will be 131
00:29:10 --> 00:29:11 of these, uh,
00:29:11 --> 00:29:13 distributed in
00:29:13 --> 00:29:15 groups of, I think,
00:29:15 --> 00:29:17 512, uh, maybe 512
00:29:17 --> 00:29:19 groups, so no, 512
00:29:19 --> 00:29:23 stations. Each of them
00:29:23 --> 00:29:31 has 256 such antennas. Uh
00:29:31 --> 00:29:32 , and the stations themselves
00:29:32 --> 00:29:33 led to this
00:29:33 --> 00:29:34 story, because the
00:29:34 --> 00:29:35 crucial fact, the
00:29:35 --> 00:29:36 crucial point
00:29:37 --> 00:29:38 of using these
00:29:38 --> 00:29:38 vertically
00:29:38 --> 00:29:40 directed arrays,
00:29:40 --> 00:29:41 sorry, vertically
00:29:41 --> 00:29:42 directed antennas,
00:29:42 --> 00:29:43 is that
00:29:43 --> 00:29:44 when there are enough of them, you
00:29:44 --> 00:29:45 have...there's something
00:29:45 --> 00:29:46 called a
00:29:46 --> 00:29:47 phased array antenna
00:29:47 --> 00:29:48 , which is a
00:29:48 --> 00:29:49 way of detecting
00:29:49 --> 00:29:50 radio signals without
00:29:50 --> 00:29:51 actually
00:29:51 --> 00:29:52 pointing
00:29:52 --> 00:29:53 the telescope in
00:29:53 --> 00:29:59 any direction.
00:29:59 --> 00:30:00 They are all located
00:30:00 --> 00:30:02 vertically. But they
00:30:02 --> 00:30:03 can...in fact,
00:30:03 --> 00:30:04 each of these antennas
00:30:04 --> 00:30:05 can effectively
00:30:05 --> 00:30:06 pick up signals from the
00:30:06 --> 00:30:07 entire sky, not
00:30:07 --> 00:30:08 all of it, but a large
00:30:08 --> 00:30:10 part of the sky. Uh,
00:30:10 --> 00:30:12 each one individually. So
00:30:12 --> 00:30:13 if you had just
00:30:13 --> 00:30:15 one antenna like that, you would
00:30:15 --> 00:30:16 get this complete, um,
00:30:16 --> 00:30:17 cacophony of signals
00:30:17 --> 00:30:19 coming from different
00:30:19 --> 00:30:20 , you know, different
00:30:20 --> 00:30:21 celestial objects all over the
00:30:21 --> 00:30:23 sky. But when
00:30:23 --> 00:30:24 you have, ahem, 131 of them, you
00:30:24 --> 00:30:25 can essentially
00:30:25 --> 00:30:27 constrain the signals in a way that
00:30:27 --> 00:30:28 effectively
00:30:28 --> 00:30:30 steers the antenna
00:30:30 --> 00:30:31 electronically
00:30:31 --> 00:30:33 in different directions. Uh
00:30:33 --> 00:30:34 , but there is one
00:30:34 --> 00:30:37 caveat. It is
00:30:37 --> 00:30:38 the distance between these, ahem,
00:30:38 --> 00:30:39 antennas that is
00:30:39 --> 00:30:40 crucial.
00:30:42 --> 00:30:42 If you simply
00:30:42 --> 00:30:44 place them all in
00:30:44 --> 00:30:45 straight lines, you
00:30:45 --> 00:30:46 will get special
00:30:46 --> 00:30:47 effects that arise
00:30:47 --> 00:30:49 because the signals
00:30:49 --> 00:30:50 have a specific
00:30:50 --> 00:30:52 wavelength. And if they're all
00:30:52 --> 00:30:53 in straight lines, it's
00:30:53 --> 00:30:54 going to act like what we
00:30:54 --> 00:30:54 call a
00:30:55 --> 00:30:55 diffraction
00:30:55 --> 00:30:56 grating, and you're going to have
00:30:56 --> 00:30:57 zero
00:30:57 --> 00:30:58 regions where you can't
00:30:58 --> 00:30:59 see... anything
00:30:59 --> 00:31:00 that's falling from the sky, because
00:31:00 --> 00:31:00 the waves
00:31:00 --> 00:31:01 are going to cancel
00:31:01 --> 00:31:07 each other out. So
00:31:07 --> 00:31:08 the design was always to
00:31:09 --> 00:31:10 use a
00:31:10 --> 00:31:11 kind of random
00:31:11 --> 00:31:12 quasi-random
00:31:12 --> 00:31:13 arrangement that would
00:31:13 --> 00:31:15 actually reflect the
00:31:15 --> 00:31:16 shape of what we
00:31:16 --> 00:31:17 sometimes call a
00:31:17 --> 00:31:24 Vogel spiral. It is
00:31:24 --> 00:31:25 often called the
00:31:25 --> 00:31:28 Fibonacci spiral. And
00:31:28 --> 00:31:29 I know this because I
00:31:29 --> 00:31:30 recently gave a
00:31:30 --> 00:31:31 talk on
00:31:31 --> 00:31:32 medieval
00:31:32 --> 00:31:32 mathematics.
00:31:34 --> 00:31:35 Fibonacci compiled
00:31:35 --> 00:31:37 his sequence in a
00:31:37 --> 00:31:38 publication, not a
00:31:38 --> 00:31:39 publication, but a
00:31:39 --> 00:31:40 manuscript that he
00:31:40 --> 00:31:41 wrote in 1202, and
00:31:41 --> 00:31:43 it turns out that you can
00:31:43 --> 00:31:44 derive something from this
00:31:45 --> 00:31:46 Fibonacci sequence, where you simply
00:31:46 --> 00:31:47 add the two
00:31:47 --> 00:31:48 previous numbers to
00:31:48 --> 00:31:50 get the next one in the
00:31:50 --> 00:31:52 sequence. Here is
00:31:52 --> 00:31:54 the recipe. You can
00:31:54 --> 00:31:55 depict this
00:31:55 --> 00:31:56 graphically and you
00:31:56 --> 00:31:57 will get a spiral
00:31:57 --> 00:32:01 shape. And it turns out
00:32:01 --> 00:32:02 that this spiral
00:32:02 --> 00:32:03 shape is often
00:32:03 --> 00:32:04 found in
00:32:04 --> 00:32:05 nature, from seashells
00:32:05 --> 00:32:06 to galaxies to
00:32:06 --> 00:32:10 sunflower seeds. And this is exactly the
00:32:10 --> 00:32:11 shape that was
00:32:11 --> 00:32:12 chosen to
00:32:12 --> 00:32:13 place these
00:32:13 --> 00:32:14 antennas with this spiral
00:32:14 --> 00:32:20 . They created
00:32:20 --> 00:32:21 a prototype that
00:32:21 --> 00:32:23 does this. In fact,
00:32:23 --> 00:32:24 they created more than
00:32:24 --> 00:32:27 one. The second was the
00:32:28 --> 00:32:30 Aperture Matrix Verification System
00:32:30 --> 00:32:31 number two AAVS2, which
00:32:31 --> 00:32:32 essentially mimics this.
00:32:34 --> 00:32:38 spiral. But
00:32:38 --> 00:32:40 it turned out that in the test
00:32:40 --> 00:32:41 they conducted,
00:32:41 --> 00:32:45 sorry, it was AVS3. This is the
00:32:45 --> 00:32:46 third prototype.
00:32:46 --> 00:32:48 Sorry, I'm second,
00:32:48 --> 00:32:48 second was
00:32:48 --> 00:32:49 accidental, just
00:32:50 --> 00:32:51 accidental. AVS2 was a
00:32:51 --> 00:32:53 random
00:32:53 --> 00:32:55 distribution of 256 antennas in
00:32:55 --> 00:32:56 each of these 512
00:32:56 --> 00:32:59 sites. AVS3 is a
00:32:59 --> 00:33:01 Vogel spiral or
00:33:01 --> 00:33:02 Fibonacci spiral.
00:33:11 --> 00:33:11 But when they
00:33:12 --> 00:33:13 built the test
00:33:13 --> 00:33:14 rig, it turned out
00:33:14 --> 00:33:15 that if you point
00:33:15 --> 00:33:16 the telescope directly
00:33:16 --> 00:33:18 overhead, where
00:33:18 --> 00:33:19 the center of the
00:33:19 --> 00:33:20 Milky Way galaxy is, you
00:33:20 --> 00:33:21 have a problem
00:33:21 --> 00:33:22 because there's a
00:33:22 --> 00:33:24 drop in sensitivity
00:33:24 --> 00:33:25 at one of the
00:33:25 --> 00:33:26 wavelengths, 125 megahertz,
00:33:26 --> 00:33:27 right through the point
00:33:27 --> 00:33:28 where you have this null
00:33:28 --> 00:33:29 region directly
00:33:29 --> 00:33:38 overhead. So, they'll
00:33:42 --> 00:33:43 just change
00:33:43 --> 00:33:44 the spiral a little bit to
00:33:44 --> 00:33:45 see if it
00:33:45 --> 00:33:49 works. They
00:33:49 --> 00:33:50 call their
00:33:50 --> 00:33:51 solution the
00:33:51 --> 00:33:52 Vogel perturbed pattern.
00:33:52 --> 00:33:54 They don't call it a
00:33:54 --> 00:33:55 perturbed
00:33:55 --> 00:33:56 Fibonacci pattern, but it's the same
00:33:56 --> 00:33:58 thing. This essentially
00:33:58 --> 00:33:58 creates...almost
00:33:58 --> 00:33:59 a small error in
00:33:59 --> 00:34:00 the position of each
00:34:00 --> 00:34:02 antenna, which means
00:34:02 --> 00:34:02 that you'll never
00:34:02 --> 00:34:03 find two that
00:34:03 --> 00:34:04 are close
00:34:04 --> 00:34:05 enough
00:34:05 --> 00:34:06 together that
00:34:06 --> 00:34:07 their wave, their
00:34:08 --> 00:34:09 wavelength sensitivity, will
00:34:09 --> 00:34:10 compensate for each
00:34:10 --> 00:34:11 other, which is exactly what this is about
00:34:11 --> 00:34:12 . Very
00:34:12 --> 00:34:13 technical, but
00:34:13 --> 00:34:14 nevertheless shows how we
00:34:14 --> 00:34:15 take lessons from
00:34:15 --> 00:34:16 nature, but sometimes
00:34:16 --> 00:34:17 we have to
00:34:17 --> 00:34:18 change them a little.
00:34:19 --> 00:34:20 Hmm. This
00:34:20 --> 00:34:21 Vogel spiral pattern is
00:34:21 --> 00:34:22 beautiful. Is
00:34:22 --> 00:34:24 n't that right? Yes. Yes.
00:34:24 --> 00:34:25 Yes, it's worth searching for
00:34:25 --> 00:34:27 it online
00:34:27 --> 00:34:28 just to look at
00:34:28 --> 00:34:29 it, but yeah, it's pretty
00:34:29 --> 00:34:30 amazing. I have to
00:34:30 --> 00:34:31 make a correction.
00:34:32 --> 00:34:33 16 countries in the SKA project
00:34:33 --> 00:34:35 overall, but six in the
00:34:35 --> 00:34:37 low-band SKA
00:34:37 --> 00:34:39 . Okay, including
00:34:39 --> 00:34:40 Australia, China,
00:34:40 --> 00:34:41 Italy, Malta, the
00:34:41 --> 00:34:42 Netherlands, and the
00:34:42 --> 00:34:43 United
00:34:43 --> 00:34:44 Kingdom.
00:34:44 --> 00:34:45 Yes, that sounds
00:34:45 --> 00:34:45 right.
00:34:47 --> 00:34:48 So, every 16
00:34:48 --> 00:34:49 are involved in everything
00:34:49 --> 00:34:50 but six on the
00:34:50 --> 00:34:51 low-frequency
00:34:51 --> 00:34:52 network, if you want to
00:34:52 --> 00:34:56 call it that. Yes. Eh, a
00:34:56 --> 00:34:57 really good
00:34:57 --> 00:34:59 story that you
00:34:59 --> 00:35:00 can read about on
00:35:00 --> 00:35:01 universetoday.com. I'm
00:35:01 --> 00:35:03 sure there
00:35:03 --> 00:35:04 was an
00:35:04 --> 00:35:05 article published somewhere. Um,
00:35:05 --> 00:35:05 yes.
00:35:06 --> 00:35:06 It's
00:35:08 --> 00:35:10 in this, uh, journal... uh
00:35:10 --> 00:35:10 , SPIE, which is the
00:35:10 --> 00:35:11 Society of
00:35:12 --> 00:35:13 Photoelectric Engineers
00:35:13 --> 00:35:16 . I think that's what it
00:35:16 --> 00:35:17 means. I
00:35:17 --> 00:35:19 was a member of it, uh,
00:35:19 --> 00:35:20 when I was working on
00:35:20 --> 00:35:21 fiber optics.
00:35:22 --> 00:35:24 Really. Fantastically.
00:35:24 --> 00:35:25 Uh, and that brings
00:35:25 --> 00:35:26 us to the end, Fred.
00:35:26 --> 00:35:27 Thank you very much.
00:35:28 --> 00:35:29 Oh, that's nice, Andrew. I'm
00:35:29 --> 00:35:30 glad we finally
00:35:30 --> 00:35:31 got there after
00:35:31 --> 00:35:32 all our
00:35:32 --> 00:35:33 initial difficulties
00:35:33 --> 00:35:34 . Nice to
00:35:34 --> 00:35:35 talk to you again,
00:35:35 --> 00:35:35 as always.
00:35:36 --> 00:35:37 And with you. We
00:35:37 --> 00:35:38 will meet very,
00:35:38 --> 00:35:39 very soon. And between
00:35:39 --> 00:35:40 episodes, don't
00:35:40 --> 00:35:41 forget to visit
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00:35:53 --> 00:35:54 own and it
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00:36:21 --> 00:36:22 Hugh in the studio who
00:36:22 --> 00:36:23 couldn't be with us
00:36:23 --> 00:36:24 today. He
00:36:24 --> 00:36:25 landed on the wrong
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00:36:27 --> 00:36:27 He will be back sometime
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00:36:28 --> 00:36:29 from me, Andrew
00:36:29 --> 00:36:30 Dunkley, thank you for your
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00:36:31 --> 00:36:32 in the next episode of
00:36:32 --> 00:36:33 "Space Nuts."
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