Space Nuts Episode 475: Skynet's Secret, Rocket Dreams, and Magenta Mysteries
Join Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson as they delve into the latest cosmic stories and uncover the mysteries of the universe. From the fall of a pioneering rocket company to the unexpected movement of the UK's oldest satellite, and the vibrant magenta aurorae over Japan, this episode is packed with fascinating insights and celestial curiosities.
Episode Highlights:
- Reaction Engines' Setback : Discover the tragic halt in development for the UK company aiming to revolutionise Space travel with their innovative Space plane, Skylon. Learn about the SABRE engine's potential and the financial hurdles that have stalled this groundbreaking project.
- Skynet's Mysterious Move : Uncover the curious case of Skynet 1A, the UK's oldest satellite, which has mysteriously shifted its position in orbit. Explore the potential implications of this movement and the historical context of this Cold War era satellite.
- Magenta Aurorae Explained: Dive into the world of citizen science as we explore how amateur astronomers helped explain the appearance of magenta aurorae over Japan. Understand the atmospheric conditions and solar activity that led to this rare and beautiful phenomenon.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
00:00 - This is Space Nuts where we talk, uh, astronomy and space science
02:02 - Company trying to develop rocket motor to get into orbit has run out of money
08:11 - Professor Fred Watson says SpaceX's proposed rocket would have been environmentally friendly
12:11 - Someone apparently moved UK's oldest satellite, which was launched in 1969
19:57 - Fred Wa says Americans originally controlled satellite's orbit but RAF eventually took control
22:49 - This year has been an astounding year in terms of being able to observe aurora
30:35 - Andrew Dunkley: Thanks for your company, Fred
✍️ Episode References
Reaction Engines
[Reaction Engines](https://www.reactionengines.co.uk/)
Universe Today
[Universe Today](https://www.universetoday.com/)
BBC
[BBC](https://www.bbc.com/)
Optus
[Optus](https://www.optus.com.au/)
Lockheed Blackbird
[Lockheed Blackbird](https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/index.html)
SpaceX
[SpaceX](https://www.spacex.com/)
Phys.org
[Phys.org](https://phys.org/)
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts--2631155/support (https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts--2631155/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss) .
Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/24463092?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:01 hi there thanks for joining us again
00:00:01 --> 00:00:03 this is Space Nuts where we talk
00:00:03 --> 00:00:06 astronomy and space science my name is
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 Andrew Dunley thanks for your company uh
00:00:08 --> 00:00:12 coming up today we uh have some sad news
00:00:12 --> 00:00:14 about a company that was developing what
00:00:14 --> 00:00:17 would probably have been one of the
00:00:17 --> 00:00:19 Great Leap forwards or leaps forward in
00:00:19 --> 00:00:22 rocket science unfortunately it's um
00:00:22 --> 00:00:25 gone the other way and we'll explain why
00:00:25 --> 00:00:28 uh the UK's oldest satellite which was
00:00:28 --> 00:00:30 launched uh not long
00:00:30 --> 00:00:32 after Neil Armstrong set foot on the
00:00:32 --> 00:00:35 moon has done something weird we don't
00:00:35 --> 00:00:38 know who did it we don't know why and
00:00:38 --> 00:00:39 wait till you hear the name of this
00:00:39 --> 00:00:43 thing it'll make you laugh and citizen
00:00:43 --> 00:00:46 scientists have uh proved their worth
00:00:46 --> 00:00:49 Again by explaining why magenta auror
00:00:50 --> 00:00:52 appeared over Japan earlier this year
00:00:52 --> 00:00:55 that's all coming up on this episode of
00:00:55 --> 00:00:57 Space Nuts 15 seconds guidance is
00:00:57 --> 00:01:02 internal 10 9 ignition sequence start
00:01:02 --> 00:01:09 Space Nuts 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 Space
00:01:09 --> 00:01:12 Nuts asut report it feels good and he's
00:01:12 --> 00:01:15 back again for more groment it is shred
00:01:15 --> 00:01:18 Watson astronomer at Large Professor
00:01:18 --> 00:01:20 Fred hello you're on a roll today Andrew
00:01:20 --> 00:01:24 with inventing new words I love grut
00:01:24 --> 00:01:26 grut I'm going to write that one down
00:01:26 --> 00:01:28 too I'll write this one down too yes
00:01:28 --> 00:01:30 when we were recording the Tik Tok I I
00:01:30 --> 00:01:32 had a slip of the tongue and I created a
00:01:32 --> 00:01:35 word called Web spite yes web spite it's
00:01:35 --> 00:01:37 when you use the worldwide web to get
00:01:37 --> 00:01:39 back at somebody
00:01:39 --> 00:01:42 yeah what did I just say gret yeah
00:01:42 --> 00:01:45 I'm uh which is uh I can't read my own
00:01:45 --> 00:01:47 writing so you'll have to tell me what
00:01:47 --> 00:01:50 that was gr no thank you Andrew it's a
00:01:50 --> 00:01:52 pleasure to be here and I you don't mind
00:01:52 --> 00:01:54 being gred from time to time as long as
00:01:54 --> 00:01:57 it doesn't get too often no no it's
00:01:57 --> 00:01:59 usually once a week with our um Q&A
00:01:59 --> 00:02:01 Edition
00:02:01 --> 00:02:04 so all right uh we've got a lot to talk
00:02:04 --> 00:02:07 about and first up is some very sad news
00:02:07 --> 00:02:10 about a company that uh they've been
00:02:10 --> 00:02:12 operating for quite some time and
00:02:12 --> 00:02:14 they've been trying to perfect a system
00:02:14 --> 00:02:16 that enables you to get into orbit
00:02:16 --> 00:02:18 without having to actually launch
00:02:18 --> 00:02:21 rockets which is very expensive and they
00:02:21 --> 00:02:24 were making incredible inroads but all
00:02:24 --> 00:02:26 of a sudden it's ground to a halt
00:02:26 --> 00:02:30 because um well money money they've run
00:02:30 --> 00:02:33 out of money that's right and and yes
00:02:33 --> 00:02:34 the reason why I picked this story to
00:02:34 --> 00:02:36 cover today is that I've been following
00:02:36 --> 00:02:40 this for 30 years story yeah uh this
00:02:40 --> 00:02:42 company reaction engines in the United
00:02:42 --> 00:02:46 Kingdom um had division back in the 90s
00:02:46 --> 00:02:49 of building a space
00:02:49 --> 00:02:52 plane uh which at that time was called
00:02:52 --> 00:02:55 hotol uh and hotals a an acronym for
00:02:55 --> 00:02:58 horizontal takeoff and landing and that
00:02:58 --> 00:03:02 tells you basically uh what you need to
00:03:02 --> 00:03:04 know about this thing it it flew like a
00:03:04 --> 00:03:07 plane took off from a normal Runway no
00:03:07 --> 00:03:11 for space port uh climbed uh with its uh
00:03:12 --> 00:03:15 two uh very highly specialized engines
00:03:15 --> 00:03:18 to you know the place the region of the
00:03:18 --> 00:03:20 atmosphere where you're really not
00:03:20 --> 00:03:22 getting very much oxygen into through
00:03:22 --> 00:03:25 the air intakes and then clicked over to
00:03:25 --> 00:03:28 liquid oxygen uh so it became a rocket
00:03:28 --> 00:03:30 motor and from then straight up into
00:03:30 --> 00:03:35 orbit um now uh that uh um vision of
00:03:35 --> 00:03:37 that spacecraft is has got a different
00:03:37 --> 00:03:39 name now it's called skylom Uh they've
00:03:39 --> 00:03:41 but it's the same sort of idea it's a
00:03:41 --> 00:03:44 long narrow spacecraft with very stubby
00:03:44 --> 00:03:47 wings and a couple of these
00:03:47 --> 00:03:50 extraordinary uh engines that would be
00:03:50 --> 00:03:53 powering it up into space and when you
00:03:53 --> 00:03:56 look at a diagram excuse me or a cutaway
00:03:56 --> 00:04:00 model of one of reaction engines
00:04:00 --> 00:04:02 products uh and they were still under
00:04:03 --> 00:04:05 development sadly uh what you've got is
00:04:05 --> 00:04:07 something it looks a little bit
00:04:07 --> 00:04:10 like the uh you know the the engine pod
00:04:10 --> 00:04:14 of a of a modern air buus or Boeing jet
00:04:14 --> 00:04:16 uh with a with an air intake and it's a
00:04:16 --> 00:04:18 supersonic air intake because it's got a
00:04:18 --> 00:04:21 very pointy nose at one end but at the
00:04:21 --> 00:04:24 other instead of you know a sort of
00:04:24 --> 00:04:27 large diameter exhaust there are Rocket
00:04:27 --> 00:04:29 Motors uh and that's what differentiates
00:04:29 --> 00:04:31 it in in fact I think the final in the
00:04:31 --> 00:04:32 final version that they were working on
00:04:32 --> 00:04:35 there was just one rocket motor and so
00:04:35 --> 00:04:38 uh what happens is the uh when it takes
00:04:38 --> 00:04:42 off it's basically uh a standard gas
00:04:42 --> 00:04:46 turbine uh but the air that's coming in
00:04:46 --> 00:04:48 through the air intake at the beginning
00:04:48 --> 00:04:49 is
00:04:49 --> 00:04:51 compressed uh it's not liquefied but
00:04:51 --> 00:04:54 it's compressed and then injected with
00:04:54 --> 00:04:57 uh liquid hydrogen which is the fuel
00:04:57 --> 00:04:59 into one of these rocket motor nozzles
00:04:59 --> 00:05:02 and provides a rocket thrust and as as
00:05:02 --> 00:05:05 the as the space as the craft increases
00:05:05 --> 00:05:08 its speed uh then the ram effect comes
00:05:08 --> 00:05:11 into play uh because it's you know it's
00:05:11 --> 00:05:13 turning into a Ramjet so the a lot of
00:05:13 --> 00:05:16 the compression is high uh basically
00:05:16 --> 00:05:17 taking place at the front end of the
00:05:17 --> 00:05:21 engine uh but then when it reaches um
00:05:21 --> 00:05:24 that height uh above the atmosphere and
00:05:24 --> 00:05:27 you're talking probably in the region of
00:05:27 --> 00:05:31 you know 30 kilm something like that uh
00:05:31 --> 00:05:35 it cuts out uh the intake and it becomes
00:05:35 --> 00:05:37 a straightforward rocket motor because
00:05:37 --> 00:05:39 you then feed liquid liquid oxygen into
00:05:39 --> 00:05:42 it but it's the same motor uh it's got
00:05:42 --> 00:05:44 two different modes of operating one in
00:05:44 --> 00:05:46 the atmosphere and one not uh providing
00:05:46 --> 00:05:49 the thrust uh now as I understand it I'm
00:05:49 --> 00:05:52 not an aerospace engineer as you know
00:05:52 --> 00:05:54 but the really interesting bit of this
00:05:54 --> 00:05:57 and what took reaction engines I think
00:05:57 --> 00:06:00 from just being a a kind of vague notion
00:06:00 --> 00:06:01 really
00:06:01 --> 00:06:06 into uh the realm of reality was uh a
00:06:06 --> 00:06:09 heat exchanger because uh when you're
00:06:09 --> 00:06:11 going at supersonic speeds I think it's
00:06:11 --> 00:06:13 designed to go up to Mac five or
00:06:13 --> 00:06:15 something while it's air breathing five
00:06:15 --> 00:06:18 times the speed of sound uh the incoming
00:06:18 --> 00:06:22 air is compressed uh very to a very high
00:06:22 --> 00:06:24 degree and has a very high temperature
00:06:24 --> 00:06:25 and you and I I know I've talked about
00:06:25 --> 00:06:28 this thing before uh so they had this
00:06:28 --> 00:06:30 heat exchanger that reduced the
00:06:30 --> 00:06:33 temperature uh from a th000 DE to sort
00:06:33 --> 00:06:35 of minus5 or something in a thousand
00:06:35 --> 00:06:37 through a seconds it's totally totally
00:06:37 --> 00:06:40 ridiculous but they made that work uh
00:06:40 --> 00:06:43 and in fact it's had other applications
00:06:43 --> 00:06:46 other industrial applications as well so
00:06:46 --> 00:06:48 that's reaction engines have you know
00:06:48 --> 00:06:50 had contracts to do that they've been
00:06:50 --> 00:06:52 underwritten by the British government I
00:06:52 --> 00:06:53 think they've been underwritten by rroy
00:06:53 --> 00:06:57 and other companies sadly their funding
00:06:57 --> 00:07:00 has just basically run out and engine is
00:07:00 --> 00:07:02 still under development it still shows
00:07:02 --> 00:07:04 promise Andrew it's one of these things
00:07:04 --> 00:07:07 that uh it's as you said it's a tragic
00:07:07 --> 00:07:10 story and I should say uh the engine is
00:07:10 --> 00:07:12 called saber and that's an acronym for
00:07:12 --> 00:07:15 synergetic air breathing rocket engine
00:07:15 --> 00:07:17 it's a very nice acronym and it tells
00:07:17 --> 00:07:20 you exactly what it is yeah you know I I
00:07:20 --> 00:07:22 hope it's saved I hope someone like Elon
00:07:22 --> 00:07:25 Musk or Jeff Bezos uh comes to the for I
00:07:26 --> 00:07:27 me they got money to burn if you can
00:07:27 --> 00:07:32 send a Tesla vehicle to Mars or whever
00:07:32 --> 00:07:35 surely can bankroll something that's
00:07:35 --> 00:07:37 probably probably going to change the
00:07:37 --> 00:07:40 game completely in terms of uh getting
00:07:40 --> 00:07:42 into space getting into orbit from the
00:07:42 --> 00:07:46 planet's surface at such a a low cost in
00:07:46 --> 00:07:49 comparison I mean I think what I read
00:07:49 --> 00:07:52 the other day was that the cost per kilo
00:07:52 --> 00:07:54 to send something into space now is
00:07:54 --> 00:07:55 about
00:07:55 --> 00:07:56 $2 it
00:07:56 --> 00:08:00 is uh this this could
00:08:00 --> 00:08:03 make a huge huge difference and it's so
00:08:03 --> 00:08:05 sad that they've run into that brick
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 wall because they um they were on to
00:08:08 --> 00:08:09 something they were on something
00:08:09 --> 00:08:13 definitely yeah yeah the other aspect of
00:08:13 --> 00:08:15 it go ahead I was just going to say um
00:08:15 --> 00:08:18 for people who wonder what it looks like
00:08:18 --> 00:08:21 they they've never actually produced one
00:08:21 --> 00:08:22 yet have they they've just been
00:08:22 --> 00:08:24 developing the motor is that right
00:08:24 --> 00:08:26 that's correct yes that's correct the
00:08:26 --> 00:08:29 artist's impression what it looks like
00:08:29 --> 00:08:33 is a um I suppose um there was there was
00:08:33 --> 00:08:37 a plane back in the 1960s uh built by
00:08:37 --> 00:08:40 Lockheed uh it was called the Blackbird
00:08:40 --> 00:08:42 and it looks a it looks a lot like the
00:08:42 --> 00:08:45 Blackbird which um was quite a quite an
00:08:45 --> 00:08:48 astounding aircraft for its time it I
00:08:48 --> 00:08:51 think I um I've got the statistics
00:08:51 --> 00:08:54 somewhere of um the loed um but yeah it
00:08:54 --> 00:08:58 could achieve multiple speeds of sound
00:08:58 --> 00:09:03 capability as many aircraft uh have but
00:09:03 --> 00:09:05 yeah that's that's I think the closest I
00:09:05 --> 00:09:07 can come to what it looks like is a
00:09:07 --> 00:09:09 lockhead blackbird quite an amazing
00:09:09 --> 00:09:10 aircraft you're going to say something
00:09:10 --> 00:09:13 sorry just that um you know you're
00:09:13 --> 00:09:16 absolutely right uh SpaceX have brought
00:09:16 --> 00:09:18 the cost per kilogram down from about
00:09:18 --> 00:09:22 $20 to 2 uh this would have
00:09:22 --> 00:09:24 brought it down further but more
00:09:24 --> 00:09:27 especially I think uh is that it's uh
00:09:27 --> 00:09:29 highly uh environmentally friend L
00:09:29 --> 00:09:32 because the exhaust was just water um
00:09:32 --> 00:09:33 you know you're burning you're burning
00:09:34 --> 00:09:37 liquid liquid hydrogen and and oxygen uh
00:09:37 --> 00:09:39 so basically it's uh it's water that's
00:09:39 --> 00:09:40 coming out now yes water vapor is a
00:09:41 --> 00:09:42 greenhouse gas but it's not anything
00:09:42 --> 00:09:44 like as bad as some of the things that
00:09:44 --> 00:09:47 come out the back end of some other uh
00:09:47 --> 00:09:49 some other rockets that we know about
00:09:49 --> 00:09:51 yeah absolutely uh another interesting
00:09:52 --> 00:09:54 thing Fred um by the buy uh I did a
00:09:54 --> 00:09:57 little bit of research on some of these
00:09:57 --> 00:10:00 um highspeed aircraft of the past
00:10:00 --> 00:10:05 uh the the X the X15 which was a NASA
00:10:05 --> 00:10:09 creation uh it came about in the 1960s
00:10:09 --> 00:10:12 as well I think the x15s were built um
00:10:12 --> 00:10:16 between yeah operated between 1959 and
00:10:16 --> 00:10:19 1968 um there were 12 Pilots including
00:10:19 --> 00:10:21 Neil Armstrong who flew flew the
00:10:21 --> 00:10:26 X15 and it was the first
00:10:26 --> 00:10:29 landbased um horizontal takeoff air
00:10:29 --> 00:10:32 aircraft to achieve um space Wings
00:10:32 --> 00:10:34 because it could reach a height of 100
00:10:34 --> 00:10:39 kilom 67 miles in fact and and it had a
00:10:39 --> 00:10:43 top speed of 4520 mph or Mark
00:10:43 --> 00:10:47 6.7 uh so it has been done in the past
00:10:47 --> 00:10:49 in fact in the very early days of rocket
00:10:49 --> 00:10:53 science the North American X15 achieved
00:10:53 --> 00:10:56 uh technical space flight by by reaching
00:10:56 --> 00:11:00 what we consider the um the limit
00:11:00 --> 00:11:03 between um Earth and and space the 100
00:11:03 --> 00:11:06 kilometer limit so it's been done before
00:11:06 --> 00:11:08 and and they were building on something
00:11:08 --> 00:11:11 um that that would have changed
00:11:11 --> 00:11:13 everything and and let's hope that they
00:11:13 --> 00:11:16 I mean there's been nearly 200 jobs lost
00:11:16 --> 00:11:19 as a consequence of this situation is
00:11:19 --> 00:11:21 really sad and you can imagine there
00:11:21 --> 00:11:23 were very highly qualified people as
00:11:23 --> 00:11:26 well indeed and hope hopefully hopefully
00:11:26 --> 00:11:29 some will someone will come to the four
00:11:29 --> 00:11:32 and and uh and and carry on this this
00:11:32 --> 00:11:34 incredible work because it um yeah I
00:11:34 --> 00:11:36 think it's vital for the future
00:11:36 --> 00:11:37 especially given you know not so long
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39 ago we were talking about the pollution
00:11:39 --> 00:11:41 that's getting into the atmosphere from
00:11:41 --> 00:11:43 multiple rocket launchers to put up
00:11:43 --> 00:11:46 those those satellite arrays this this
00:11:46 --> 00:11:49 would be an incredible um development if
00:11:49 --> 00:11:53 they can just just finish the job yeah
00:11:53 --> 00:11:56 anyway um you can read all about it at
00:11:56 --> 00:11:59 univers today.com this is space face
00:11:59 --> 00:12:01 nuts with Andrew Dunley and Professor
00:12:01 --> 00:12:04 Fred
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07 Watson 3
00:12:07 --> 00:12:12 2 Space Nuts now Fred speaking speaking
00:12:12 --> 00:12:13 of orbital
00:12:13 --> 00:12:15 satellites I'm laughing because I love
00:12:15 --> 00:12:18 this story for a couple of reasons uh
00:12:18 --> 00:12:20 this is a story about a satellite that
00:12:20 --> 00:12:23 uh the UK owns and is still responsible
00:12:23 --> 00:12:27 for uh it went up in 1969 it's still up
00:12:27 --> 00:12:30 there surprisingly but something weird
00:12:30 --> 00:12:34 happened what the heck is going
00:12:35 --> 00:12:40 on uh it it has a name uh and and you're
00:12:40 --> 00:12:41 going to probably say something about
00:12:41 --> 00:12:43 this let's let's do the name first
00:12:43 --> 00:12:45 Andrew go on you cover that it's tell
00:12:45 --> 00:12:49 everybody what it's called it's called
00:12:49 --> 00:12:51 Skynet if you listen to our sister
00:12:51 --> 00:12:54 podcast with uh my brother Steve um
00:12:54 --> 00:12:57 astronomy daily he often talks to hie
00:12:57 --> 00:13:00 about her uncle Skynet
00:13:00 --> 00:13:05 and um yeah Skynet was the self-aware
00:13:05 --> 00:13:09 evil um entity that was created through
00:13:09 --> 00:13:11 um online systems in The Terminator
00:13:11 --> 00:13:14 movie series and basically you know saw
00:13:14 --> 00:13:16 the near end of
00:13:16 --> 00:13:18 humankind um because it developed
00:13:18 --> 00:13:21 self-awareness so yeah
00:13:21 --> 00:13:24 Skynet thought I didn't know there was a
00:13:24 --> 00:13:28 real one but there is it is and uh and
00:13:28 --> 00:13:30 as you said it was launch lached I think
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33 in November 1969 uh was when Skynet 1A
00:13:33 --> 00:13:35 there were two apparently two of the the
00:13:35 --> 00:13:37 first series I think Skynet actually
00:13:37 --> 00:13:40 still exists as a as a as
00:13:40 --> 00:13:45 a series of spacecraft uh but Skynet 1A
00:13:45 --> 00:13:47 uh it was so it's a geostationary
00:13:47 --> 00:13:49 satellite that means it's at 36
00:13:49 --> 00:13:52 kilometers above the Earth's surface and
00:13:52 --> 00:13:56 always uh hovers above a particular
00:13:56 --> 00:13:58 point on the earth uh because the
00:13:58 --> 00:14:00 orbital period it takes the length of
00:14:00 --> 00:14:02 time it takes to go around once he's 24
00:14:03 --> 00:14:05 hours uh was a very neat trick to to be
00:14:05 --> 00:14:08 able to do that so uh when it was laun
00:14:08 --> 00:14:10 so what it what was it launched for it
00:14:10 --> 00:14:14 was all about uh Communications for uh
00:14:14 --> 00:14:17 for the British forces there a defense
00:14:17 --> 00:14:20 uh relay communication spacecraft uh and
00:14:20 --> 00:14:25 and it was placed um uh basically over
00:14:25 --> 00:14:28 the east coast of Africa that was where
00:14:28 --> 00:14:32 it it's uh its uh original location 40°
00:14:32 --> 00:14:35 East and of course what that meant was
00:14:35 --> 00:14:37 that uh because it's on the equator and
00:14:37 --> 00:14:42 at 40 40 degrees east uh it can see both
00:14:42 --> 00:14:45 the RAF base uh in the south of England
00:14:45 --> 00:14:48 where it was being controlled from and
00:14:48 --> 00:14:51 various uh British forces deployments uh
00:14:51 --> 00:14:54 throughout the uh throughout the um Asia
00:14:54 --> 00:14:56 Pacific well not the Asia Pacific but
00:14:56 --> 00:14:59 certainly Indian Ocean uh and uh and
00:14:59 --> 00:15:03 East Asia so all of that was part of its
00:15:03 --> 00:15:04 original
00:15:04 --> 00:15:09 function now uh that spacecraft I don't
00:15:09 --> 00:15:10 think it
00:15:10 --> 00:15:16 actually uh worked for very long it was
00:15:16 --> 00:15:19 just a few uh a few years uh and of
00:15:19 --> 00:15:22 course that was in the in the the the
00:15:22 --> 00:15:24 infancy of this kind of
00:15:24 --> 00:15:25 telecommunications and so I think
00:15:25 --> 00:15:28 everybody lost interest Andrew um until
00:15:28 --> 00:15:30 recent when somebody said where's that
00:15:30 --> 00:15:34 Skynet 1A gone and it turns up uh
00:15:34 --> 00:15:39 actually uh basically uh somewhere else
00:15:39 --> 00:15:42 uh half a planet away as the BBC
00:15:42 --> 00:15:45 reported um uh and um actually there's a
00:15:45 --> 00:15:47 very nice article on the BBC website for
00:15:47 --> 00:15:49 this it's it's entitled somebody moved
00:15:49 --> 00:15:51 UK's oldest satellite and no one knows
00:15:52 --> 00:15:55 who or why oh she's a story but they
00:15:55 --> 00:15:57 comment that or orbital mechanics and
00:15:57 --> 00:16:00 that's the you know the way that uh uh
00:16:00 --> 00:16:02 the Dynamics of Orbit's work it's what I
00:16:02 --> 00:16:04 did my Master's Degree on uh it means
00:16:04 --> 00:16:07 it's unlikely that the half ton military
00:16:07 --> 00:16:10 spacecraft simply drifted to its current
00:16:10 --> 00:16:12 location almost certainly says the BBC
00:16:12 --> 00:16:14 it was commanded to fire its thrusters
00:16:14 --> 00:16:17 in the mid 1970s to take it westwards
00:16:17 --> 00:16:20 it's now over America that's the thing
00:16:20 --> 00:16:22 uh and the question is who was that and
00:16:22 --> 00:16:25 what with what Authority and purpose uh
00:16:25 --> 00:16:26 and
00:16:26 --> 00:16:30 um it is the the BBC comments it's
00:16:30 --> 00:16:32 intriguing that key information about a
00:16:32 --> 00:16:34 once vital National Security asset can
00:16:34 --> 00:16:37 just evaporate but Fascination aside you
00:16:37 --> 00:16:39 might reasonably also ask why it still
00:16:39 --> 00:16:40 matters after all we're talking about
00:16:40 --> 00:16:43 some discarded space junk from 50 years
00:16:43 --> 00:16:46 ago um and and the uh the the bottom
00:16:46 --> 00:16:48 line there's a space consultant by the
00:16:48 --> 00:16:50 name of Dr Stuart EES who comments that
00:16:50 --> 00:16:52 it's still relevant because whoever did
00:16:52 --> 00:16:55 move Skynet 1A did us a few favors it's
00:16:55 --> 00:16:57 now in what we call a gravity well at
00:16:57 --> 00:17:00 105 degrees West longitude wandering
00:17:00 --> 00:17:01 backwards and forwards like a marble at
00:17:01 --> 00:17:04 the bottom of a bowl and unfortunately
00:17:04 --> 00:17:06 this brings it closer to other satellite
00:17:06 --> 00:17:08 traffic on a regular basis uh because
00:17:08 --> 00:17:11 it's dead the risk is it might bump into
00:17:11 --> 00:17:12 something and because it's our satellite
00:17:12 --> 00:17:14 we're still responsible for it that's Dr
00:17:14 --> 00:17:16 Stewart e based
00:17:16 --> 00:17:18 consultant that's the bottom line isn't
00:17:19 --> 00:17:21 it it is uh these days the
00:17:21 --> 00:17:24 responsibility of the U the country that
00:17:24 --> 00:17:27 sends it a loft to deal with it and they
00:17:27 --> 00:17:29 can't because it's it's a dead satellite
00:17:29 --> 00:17:31 it's stuck in this gravity well it's
00:17:31 --> 00:17:34 bouncing around and it's um yeah it's in
00:17:34 --> 00:17:36 a traffic Zone basically yes that's
00:17:36 --> 00:17:40 right yeah so so the normal thing with
00:17:40 --> 00:17:42 uh defunct uh just stationary satellites
00:17:42 --> 00:17:44 is they're they're pushed outwards into
00:17:44 --> 00:17:47 what's called a graveyard orbit yeah uh
00:17:47 --> 00:17:49 where they are well away from all the
00:17:49 --> 00:17:52 active ones uh and uh sort of well away
00:17:52 --> 00:17:55 from other graveyard Orit spacecraft so
00:17:55 --> 00:17:57 they're they're pushed outwards and um
00:17:57 --> 00:17:59 uh that's the standard practice ice and
00:17:59 --> 00:18:00 has been for some time but clearly
00:18:00 --> 00:18:02 Skynet 1A hasn't had that it's in this
00:18:02 --> 00:18:05 gravity well and it probably doesn't
00:18:05 --> 00:18:07 have any means of moving it because it's
00:18:08 --> 00:18:10 probably out of fuel and you know 50
00:18:10 --> 00:18:13 years 50 years old it's uh more than 50
00:18:13 --> 00:18:15 years old it's it's it's probably a
00:18:15 --> 00:18:17 little bit Rusty here and there in terms
00:18:17 --> 00:18:19 of its electronics and things of that
00:18:19 --> 00:18:21 sort yeah didn't didn't they expect it
00:18:21 --> 00:18:24 to just plunge back down to earth wasn't
00:18:24 --> 00:18:29 that seg no uh G station is too far away
00:18:29 --> 00:18:33 uh it's uh 3 36 kilometers um and
00:18:34 --> 00:18:36 and I guess when that was launched back
00:18:36 --> 00:18:37 in
00:18:37 --> 00:18:40 1969 there really wasn't the concern
00:18:40 --> 00:18:43 with space Dey that there is now uh and
00:18:43 --> 00:18:46 uh there would only be so so the way GE
00:18:46 --> 00:18:49 stationary orbits work Andrew this um
00:18:49 --> 00:18:50 that they're all at the same distance
00:18:50 --> 00:18:51 they've got to be at the same height
00:18:51 --> 00:18:53 above Earth for them to go around once
00:18:53 --> 00:18:57 in 24 hours otherwise it doesn't work so
00:18:57 --> 00:19:00 what you've got is the the the orbit and
00:19:00 --> 00:19:02 it's all on the Equator so it's a single
00:19:02 --> 00:19:06 orbit is partitioned into stations for
00:19:06 --> 00:19:08 the different spacecraft and I don't
00:19:08 --> 00:19:09 think they're very big I think they're
00:19:09 --> 00:19:10 only you know 100 kilometers or
00:19:10 --> 00:19:14 something like that uh each um box that
00:19:14 --> 00:19:16 one of these spacecraft sits in uh one
00:19:16 --> 00:19:19 of our friends uh Mani man's and my
00:19:19 --> 00:19:21 friends actually is a she drives the
00:19:21 --> 00:19:25 spacecraft uh she's a satellite manager
00:19:25 --> 00:19:29 for octus the um the uh Telecom company
00:19:29 --> 00:19:32 here in Australia uh and she she talked
00:19:33 --> 00:19:35 to me that's a long time ago now but she
00:19:35 --> 00:19:37 talked about station keep keeping and it
00:19:37 --> 00:19:39 means you know the gravitational pull of
00:19:39 --> 00:19:42 the moon and the sun and planets just
00:19:42 --> 00:19:44 tweak the orbit slightly and you've got
00:19:44 --> 00:19:47 to keep uh bringing it back to where you
00:19:47 --> 00:19:50 want it to be so there's always a a fuel
00:19:50 --> 00:19:52 usage with these G stationary satellites
00:19:52 --> 00:19:53 even though they're in what seem like
00:19:54 --> 00:19:56 stable orbits you've got to work to keep
00:19:56 --> 00:19:58 them there and eventually that's why you
00:19:58 --> 00:20:01 need to get them uh out into a graveyard
00:20:01 --> 00:20:02 orbit because if the spacecraft runs out
00:20:02 --> 00:20:05 of fuel and you can't do any station
00:20:05 --> 00:20:06 keeping then you do risk it wandering
00:20:06 --> 00:20:09 out of its box its imaginary box and
00:20:09 --> 00:20:11 hitting another one yeah you mentioned
00:20:11 --> 00:20:13 your friend who works for Opus who
00:20:13 --> 00:20:15 tweaks the satellites orbits to keep
00:20:15 --> 00:20:18 them where they need to be this article
00:20:18 --> 00:20:20 you mentioned the BBC article uh spoke
00:20:20 --> 00:20:24 to Graham Davidson who was the original
00:20:24 --> 00:20:26 pilot if you like of Skynet 1A in the
00:20:26 --> 00:20:27 early '70s
00:20:27 --> 00:20:31 um uh he worked for the RAF uh he he
00:20:31 --> 00:20:33 said the Americans originally controlled
00:20:33 --> 00:20:35 the satellites orbit and they tested the
00:20:35 --> 00:20:37 software but eventually handed Over
00:20:37 --> 00:20:40 Control to the RAF um this fellow's now
00:20:40 --> 00:20:43 in his um in his 80s he said in essence
00:20:43 --> 00:20:45 there was du dual control but when or
00:20:45 --> 00:20:48 why Skynet 1A might have been handed
00:20:48 --> 00:20:50 back to the Americans which seems likely
00:20:50 --> 00:20:53 I'm afraid I can't
00:20:53 --> 00:20:55 remember um yeah because it's such a
00:20:55 --> 00:20:58 long time isn't it such a long time and
00:20:58 --> 00:21:00 uh so much has has happened over those
00:21:00 --> 00:21:03 decades and and here we are suddenly
00:21:03 --> 00:21:05 thinking oh hang on a minute it's still
00:21:05 --> 00:21:07 there it's doing the wrong thing we
00:21:07 --> 00:21:09 can't do anything about it uh my theory
00:21:09 --> 00:21:12 Fred is that uh somebody at Mission
00:21:12 --> 00:21:16 Control um saw a pretty girl sat down on
00:21:16 --> 00:21:18 the panel with his cup of coffee and
00:21:18 --> 00:21:20 said gay I'm I'm
00:21:20 --> 00:21:23 Fred um and pushed a button that's what
00:21:23 --> 00:21:26 I reckon happened it could be well we
00:21:26 --> 00:21:28 might find out actually because uh
00:21:28 --> 00:21:30 there's a PhD student at University
00:21:30 --> 00:21:31 College London by the name of Rachel
00:21:31 --> 00:21:34 Hill uh soon hopefully to be Dr Rachel
00:21:34 --> 00:21:37 Hill if she does a PhD uh and she's been
00:21:37 --> 00:21:40 working uh through the National Archives
00:21:40 --> 00:21:43 uh and there's a speculation from uh
00:21:43 --> 00:21:46 Rachel uh which is a Skynet team from
00:21:46 --> 00:21:49 okanga that's the RAF station would go
00:21:49 --> 00:21:52 to the US AF uh US Air Force satellite
00:21:52 --> 00:21:54 facility in Sunnyvale colloquially known
00:21:54 --> 00:21:57 as the blue cube and operate the Skynet
00:21:57 --> 00:22:00 during over out that this is when
00:22:00 --> 00:22:02 control was temporarily transferred to
00:22:02 --> 00:22:04 the US while Oak hanger was down for
00:22:04 --> 00:22:06 essential maintenance perhaps the move
00:22:06 --> 00:22:08 could have happened then and maybe your
00:22:08 --> 00:22:11 theory is as good as hers in that
00:22:11 --> 00:22:14 regard I can I can see a Bond film in
00:22:14 --> 00:22:18 this um self Weare UK Skynet satellite
00:22:18 --> 00:22:21 and uh MI6 is thrust into action to deal
00:22:21 --> 00:22:22 with it because it's it's up there
00:22:22 --> 00:22:24 plotting the Takeover of the world well
00:22:24 --> 00:22:26 I think that story's already been done
00:22:26 --> 00:22:29 but anyway uh it is it is amusing it is
00:22:29 --> 00:22:31 amusing um although it does have some
00:22:31 --> 00:22:33 serious consequences if it gets in the
00:22:33 --> 00:22:35 way of satellite traffic uh you can read
00:22:35 --> 00:22:40 that at bbc.com this is Space Nuts with
00:22:40 --> 00:22:43 Andrew Dunley and Fred
00:22:43 --> 00:22:50 Watson 3 2 1 Space Nuts finally Fred we
00:22:50 --> 00:22:52 look at citizen science and it's come to
00:22:52 --> 00:22:56 the four in Japan because this year's
00:22:56 --> 00:22:59 been quite a an astounding year in terms
00:22:59 --> 00:23:03 of being able to observe auror and uh
00:23:03 --> 00:23:05 the sun's been so very active and the um
00:23:05 --> 00:23:07 the auror have been popping up in places
00:23:08 --> 00:23:09 where you wouldn't normally see them
00:23:09 --> 00:23:10 including where I am although I haven't
00:23:10 --> 00:23:15 been that lucky um but uh the thing with
00:23:15 --> 00:23:17 the ones that have been seen in Japan is
00:23:17 --> 00:23:21 that they have been a magenta color and
00:23:21 --> 00:23:23 people have gone wait a minute that
00:23:23 --> 00:23:26 doesn't look right how is it so citizen
00:23:26 --> 00:23:29 science has come up with the answer
00:23:29 --> 00:23:33 that's correct it has um uh and you know
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36 it is a really nice story uh as to how
00:23:36 --> 00:23:40 we learn things by virtue of people just
00:23:40 --> 00:23:42 doing their thing with their cameras and
00:23:42 --> 00:23:46 uh P pulling together all their images
00:23:46 --> 00:23:48 so this was um something that happened
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50 in May this year in fact May the 10th if
00:23:50 --> 00:23:52 I remember rightly uh there was a very
00:23:52 --> 00:23:56 very active auroral display uh uh which
00:23:56 --> 00:23:58 was seen throughout the world except
00:23:58 --> 00:24:00 here in Sydney because the sky was
00:24:00 --> 00:24:03 cloudy we didn't see any of it and uh I
00:24:03 --> 00:24:07 was PR my yeah my daughter's uh in the
00:24:07 --> 00:24:11 UK saw it uh and uh you know I think
00:24:11 --> 00:24:12 that most of Britain were treated to
00:24:13 --> 00:24:15 marvelous aurori uh as with Japan as
00:24:15 --> 00:24:19 well and so uh the photographs that uh
00:24:19 --> 00:24:23 come particularly from Japan uh showed
00:24:23 --> 00:24:26 uh the aurori being magenta it's a sort
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 of purplish color like a a pinkish
00:24:29 --> 00:24:33 purple uh and normally uh what we find
00:24:33 --> 00:24:36 with the Aurora is the colors are quite
00:24:36 --> 00:24:39 specific Andrew because um they are the
00:24:39 --> 00:24:43 colors that are generated by excited
00:24:43 --> 00:24:46 atoms in the upper atmosphere uh and um
00:24:46 --> 00:24:48 I'll be looking at the Aurora again uh
00:24:48 --> 00:24:50 early next year hopefully and thinking
00:24:50 --> 00:24:52 about these things what causes the green
00:24:53 --> 00:24:55 the green is the most commonly seen
00:24:55 --> 00:24:57 color in the Aurora uh and that comes
00:24:58 --> 00:25:00 about because it's a uh an emission of
00:25:00 --> 00:25:03 oxygen atoms uh in the upper atmosphere
00:25:03 --> 00:25:05 the oxygen atoms are clouted by the
00:25:06 --> 00:25:08 electrons uh and protons too coming from
00:25:08 --> 00:25:09 the
00:25:09 --> 00:25:13 Sun uh uh in in a you know a burst of of
00:25:13 --> 00:25:16 solar activity uh and when they when the
00:25:16 --> 00:25:18 atoms uh they get excited to a higher
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20 level of energy when they relax they
00:25:20 --> 00:25:24 emit specific colors and the green uh
00:25:24 --> 00:25:27 light is the specific color of oxygen at
00:25:27 --> 00:25:30 a height of between about 1 and 200
00:25:30 --> 00:25:32 kilometers uh when it gets higher than
00:25:32 --> 00:25:35 that um if if there's a higher level of
00:25:35 --> 00:25:39 auroral activity and atoms higher than
00:25:39 --> 00:25:42 about 200 kilometers are excited and
00:25:42 --> 00:25:43 these are oxygen atoms that we're
00:25:43 --> 00:25:45 talking about then they emit a red light
00:25:46 --> 00:25:47 they emit a different color because the
00:25:47 --> 00:25:49 pressure is different um and so that's
00:25:49 --> 00:25:52 why we commonly see auror with green
00:25:52 --> 00:25:55 undersides and a red uh higher region up
00:25:56 --> 00:25:58 to uh usually up to about 500 kilometers
00:25:58 --> 00:26:01 or so and that's why here in Australia
00:26:01 --> 00:26:03 we tend to see red auror because people
00:26:03 --> 00:26:05 are down in Tasmania and places like
00:26:05 --> 00:26:07 that they're looking over the southern
00:26:07 --> 00:26:09 Horizon all they're seeing is the
00:26:09 --> 00:26:10 highest levels of auror that are
00:26:10 --> 00:26:13 happening well below their Horizon
00:26:13 --> 00:26:15 that's why we see the red uh but that
00:26:15 --> 00:26:19 doesn't explain magenta and the uh that
00:26:19 --> 00:26:22 involves uh something else that comes
00:26:22 --> 00:26:24 into play with very energetic aor and
00:26:25 --> 00:26:26 we've seen this actually up in the in
00:26:27 --> 00:26:30 Far Northern Norway um uh if you've got
00:26:30 --> 00:26:33 uh lots of Highly energetic electrons
00:26:33 --> 00:26:35 they also as well as exciting the the
00:26:35 --> 00:26:38 the green and the red they penetrate
00:26:38 --> 00:26:40 lower into the atmosphere and then the
00:26:40 --> 00:26:43 principal uh it's actually a molecule
00:26:43 --> 00:26:46 that comes into play is nitrogen uh the
00:26:46 --> 00:26:49 nitrogen molecule is then excited to
00:26:49 --> 00:26:51 radiate in a range of colors but they
00:26:51 --> 00:26:54 include Bloom and in fact sometimes they
00:26:54 --> 00:26:56 uh there's so many of these colors come
00:26:56 --> 00:26:58 together that you see a white and side
00:26:58 --> 00:27:00 on the Aurora that tells you there's
00:27:00 --> 00:27:03 really high energetic highly energetic
00:27:03 --> 00:27:06 uh uh electrons coming in um and we've
00:27:06 --> 00:27:08 seen that this sort of whiteness on the
00:27:08 --> 00:27:10 bottom layer of the Aurora that's caused
00:27:10 --> 00:27:13 by several different uh excitations if I
00:27:13 --> 00:27:14 can put it that way of nitrogen
00:27:14 --> 00:27:16 molecules but one of the main ones is
00:27:16 --> 00:27:21 blue and so uh what the conjecture is
00:27:21 --> 00:27:23 here in Japan and this this is where the
00:27:23 --> 00:27:25 citizen science comes in all these
00:27:25 --> 00:27:28 photographic observations tell you that
00:27:28 --> 00:27:32 the magenta color uh you can you knowing
00:27:32 --> 00:27:33 where the photographs were taken and
00:27:33 --> 00:27:35 what direction they were taken in and
00:27:35 --> 00:27:38 how high above the Horizon this these
00:27:38 --> 00:27:41 colors appear they tell you that the
00:27:41 --> 00:27:44 magenta aor are at a height of round
00:27:44 --> 00:27:48 about a th000 kilometers and that is a
00:27:48 --> 00:27:51 very high uh level so this is because
00:27:51 --> 00:27:54 we've got this so much exitation and
00:27:54 --> 00:27:56 what they're what they're
00:27:56 --> 00:27:59 suggesting uh so yes th000 kilometers
00:27:59 --> 00:28:02 you you you'd get red from the oxygen
00:28:02 --> 00:28:06 but um the fact that it this occurred in
00:28:06 --> 00:28:09 May uh brings the weather into play as
00:28:09 --> 00:28:12 well uh and it it means that the
00:28:12 --> 00:28:15 atmosphere uh was in a sort of what what
00:28:16 --> 00:28:18 they call a preheated State uh which
00:28:18 --> 00:28:22 means you get you get uh this molecular
00:28:22 --> 00:28:24 nitrogen which is normally emitting at a
00:28:24 --> 00:28:26 very low level in the atmosphere below
00:28:26 --> 00:28:29 about 100 kilometers it bubbles up into
00:28:29 --> 00:28:32 the upper atmosphere and that when the
00:28:32 --> 00:28:35 electrons hit it gives a blue light and
00:28:35 --> 00:28:37 so what you've got at 1,00 kilometers is
00:28:37 --> 00:28:40 a mixture of of molecular nitrogen it's
00:28:40 --> 00:28:43 actually ionized it's lost an electron
00:28:43 --> 00:28:45 uh and the oxygen so molecular
00:28:45 --> 00:28:47 nitrogen's giving a blue light the
00:28:47 --> 00:28:50 Oxygen's giving a red light and what you
00:28:50 --> 00:28:53 get is purple or this magenta uh and
00:28:53 --> 00:28:56 this basically there were 775 citizen
00:28:56 --> 00:28:58 science observations uh which were
00:28:58 --> 00:29:01 combined uh with satellite observations
00:29:01 --> 00:29:03 uh in research done by uh one of the
00:29:03 --> 00:29:06 Japanese science institutions it's a
00:29:06 --> 00:29:07 very nice piece of work and it's lovely
00:29:07 --> 00:29:10 that it involves folk in the street like
00:29:10 --> 00:29:13 you and me yeah and so it's as simple as
00:29:13 --> 00:29:16 being where they were what was happening
00:29:16 --> 00:29:18 in the atmosphere and the mix of colors
00:29:18 --> 00:29:21 from that from that point of view that's
00:29:21 --> 00:29:24 right due due partly to the time of year
00:29:24 --> 00:29:26 as well as the you know the the highly
00:29:26 --> 00:29:29 energetic uh electrons coming in yeah
00:29:29 --> 00:29:32 very nice story yeah well it's
00:29:32 --> 00:29:33 interesting because uh a lot of the
00:29:33 --> 00:29:36 photographs of auror that were taken
00:29:36 --> 00:29:38 from my part of the world around around
00:29:38 --> 00:29:40 dubo in central New South Wales earli
00:29:40 --> 00:29:43 this year had multiple colors like we we
00:29:43 --> 00:29:46 had greens we had purples we had we had
00:29:46 --> 00:29:51 Reds and and um even some blues so all
00:29:51 --> 00:29:53 of that was happening here as well so um
00:29:53 --> 00:29:55 there were a brilliant mix of colors in
00:29:55 --> 00:29:58 our part of the world and I'm so
00:29:58 --> 00:30:00 disappointed that I missed that because
00:30:00 --> 00:30:04 it looks spectacular truly spectacular
00:30:04 --> 00:30:07 yeah maybe maybe maybe a similar effect
00:30:07 --> 00:30:10 FR to what they witness it could be
00:30:10 --> 00:30:13 probably it's probably right Andrew um
00:30:13 --> 00:30:14 you were probably seeing similar
00:30:14 --> 00:30:16 phenomena that's right well multiple
00:30:16 --> 00:30:20 colors I do was by you I mean uh you in
00:30:20 --> 00:30:25 a sort of General s people yeah that's
00:30:25 --> 00:30:26 right um although you saw them on the
00:30:26 --> 00:30:28 photograph so that's well that's fair
00:30:29 --> 00:30:31 enough uh but yes um I I think these
00:30:31 --> 00:30:35 will be related related issues indeed
00:30:35 --> 00:30:38 all right uh it's a great story you can
00:30:38 --> 00:30:41 read all about it at fizz. org that
00:30:41 --> 00:30:43 brings us to the end of this particular
00:30:43 --> 00:30:45 program thanks for your company uh don't
00:30:45 --> 00:30:47 forget to visit our website if you're uh
00:30:47 --> 00:30:50 trailing around on the internet uh it's
00:30:50 --> 00:30:55 Space Nuts podcast.com or SPAC nuts.i
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00:31:09 --> 00:31:11 probably the easiest one to remember
00:31:11 --> 00:31:14 we're all done Fred thank you very much
00:31:14 --> 00:31:16 it's a pleasure Andrew always great to
00:31:16 --> 00:31:19 talk and I look forward to next time
00:31:19 --> 00:31:20 yeah it could be minute away you never
00:31:20 --> 00:31:25 know thanks Fred see you soon and uh I I
00:31:25 --> 00:31:27 would say thanks to H in the studio but
00:31:27 --> 00:31:29 we changed the recording time at the
00:31:29 --> 00:31:32 last minute and didn't tell him uh and
00:31:32 --> 00:31:33 for me Andrew Dunley thanks for your
00:31:33 --> 00:31:37 company we'll see you soon bye-bye nuts
00:31:37 --> 00:31:40 you'll be listening to the Space Nuts
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