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Diamonds on Mercury, the Lucy Mission, and Mapping the Dark Ages
In this exciting episode of Space Nuts, host Andrew Dunkley returns from his recent travels, ready to explore some of the most intriguing topics in astronomy alongside the ever-knowledgeable Professor Fred Watson. They dive into the possibility of a diamond layer on Mercury, the latest revelations from the Lucy spacecraft, and an ambitious plan to map the universe's Dark Ages.
Episode Highlights:
- Diamonds Beneath Mercury: Andrew and Fred Watson discuss groundbreaking research suggesting that Mercury may have a layer of diamonds beneath its surface. They unpack the findings from a recent paper that indicates the presence of carbon-rich materials under extreme pressure and temperature conditions, leading to the formation of diamonds deep within the planet.
- The Lucy Mission's Surprising Discoveries: The duo delves into the latest images sent back by NASA's Lucy spacecraft, which is on a mission to study Trojan asteroids. They discuss a surprising flyby of an asteroid that turned out to be larger than anticipated, along with the innovative autonomous systems that allowed for stunning imaging of this cosmic object.
- Mapping the Dark Ages of the Universe: Andrew and Fred Watson explore an ambitious project aimed at mapping the Dark Ages of the universe, a time when the first stars had yet to ignite. They discuss the challenges of detecting the faint signals from this era and how a fleet of satellites positioned on the far side of the Moon could help overcome these obstacles.
For more Space Nuts, including our continually updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. (https://www.spacenutspodcast.com/) Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on Facebook, X, YouTube Music, Tumblr, Instagram, and TikTok. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favourite platform.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
(00:00) Welcome back to Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley and Fred Watson Watson
(01:20) Discussion on the potential diamond layer on Mercury
(15:00) Updates from the Lucy mission and its asteroid flyby
(25:30) Exploring the plan to map the Dark Ages of the universe
For commercial-free versions of Space Nuts, join us on Patreon, Supercast, Apple Podcasts, or become a supporter here: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support (https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss) .
Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/26898313?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Hi there. Thanks for joining us. This is
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 the podcast known as Space Nuts. My name
00:00:05 --> 00:00:06 is Andrew Dunley, your host. It's good
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 to be back and thanks to Heidi for
00:00:08 --> 00:00:09 filling in for the last few weeks. She
00:00:09 --> 00:00:12 did a fantastic job and I'm surprised I
00:00:12 --> 00:00:13 got my job back, but uh anyway, that's
00:00:14 --> 00:00:16 the way it goes. Uh coming up, we are
00:00:16 --> 00:00:19 going to look at a massive layer of what
00:00:19 --> 00:00:21 could be diamonds inside the planet
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 Mercury. Uh, we'll also be following up
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 on the Lucy spacecraft, which is
00:00:27 --> 00:00:30 basically revealing a conjoined asteroid
00:00:30 --> 00:00:32 amongst other things, probably other
00:00:32 --> 00:00:34 asteroids, and a plan to map the dark
00:00:34 --> 00:00:36 ages of the universe. We'll talk about
00:00:36 --> 00:00:38 all of that on this episode of Space
00:00:38 --> 00:00:42 Nuts. 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.
00:00:42 --> 00:00:46 10 9 Ignition sequence start. Space
00:00:46 --> 00:00:52 Nuts. 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1 space
00:00:52 --> 00:00:55 notes astronauts reported feels good.
00:00:55 --> 00:00:58 And joining us to unravel all of that is
00:00:58 --> 00:01:00 Professor Fred Watson, an astronomer at
00:01:00 --> 00:01:02 large. Hello, Fred. How you doing,
00:01:02 --> 00:01:05 Andrew? It's great to see you back.
00:01:05 --> 00:01:07 Thought it was my front, but yes, I'm
00:01:07 --> 00:01:10 sorry to sorry I misread your face for
00:01:10 --> 00:01:12 the back of your head. Sorry.
00:01:12 --> 00:01:14 Forgetting the with the with the hair
00:01:14 --> 00:01:18 loss. Look, there's
00:01:18 --> 00:01:21 really well um we had a fantastic trip
00:01:21 --> 00:01:23 and I won't bore everyone to death with
00:01:23 --> 00:01:26 um all the minor details, but we flew
00:01:26 --> 00:01:28 into Miami eventually. We had a delay,
00:01:28 --> 00:01:30 so our flight um we couldn't make our
00:01:30 --> 00:01:31 flight, so we had to do an extra flight
00:01:31 --> 00:01:34 to Toronto and get a flight to Miami.
00:01:34 --> 00:01:37 So, we ended up being awake for about 40
00:01:37 --> 00:01:39 hours, I think it was, by the time we
00:01:39 --> 00:01:42 landed in Miami. And uh then we went,
00:01:42 --> 00:01:44 you'll love this. We went to our hotel
00:01:44 --> 00:01:45 near the port because we were getting on
00:01:45 --> 00:01:49 a ship and there was a music festival.
00:01:49 --> 00:01:51 So, get how much sleep we got after
00:01:51 --> 00:01:54 that. Yeah. Yeah. Um but um yeah, got on
00:01:54 --> 00:01:57 the ship, did Colombia, did the Panama
00:01:57 --> 00:01:59 Canal. Gee, that's intriguing. That is
00:01:59 --> 00:02:01 such an amazing piece of engineering,
00:02:01 --> 00:02:03 that thing. Uh then we went whipped
00:02:03 --> 00:02:06 around to
00:02:06 --> 00:02:10 Guatemala, Costa Rica, Mexico, got off
00:02:10 --> 00:02:14 in LA, flew to Vegas for a few days and
00:02:14 --> 00:02:16 um we we went to the sphere. Do you know
00:02:16 --> 00:02:20 about the sphere at Las Vegas? No, I
00:02:20 --> 00:02:22 don't think so. It's a big ball. Yes, it
00:02:22 --> 00:02:24 sounds like that. Yeah. But the outside
00:02:24 --> 00:02:27 of it um shows images, constant images.
00:02:28 --> 00:02:30 It's like a round television set if you
00:02:30 --> 00:02:32 like. Wow. Um but it's a sort of an
00:02:32 --> 00:02:35 animated um setup, but inside they do
00:02:35 --> 00:02:37 concerts and they got the Eagles coming
00:02:38 --> 00:02:40 up uh at the sphere in the um next
00:02:40 --> 00:02:42 couple of months. I think it's next
00:02:42 --> 00:02:46 month. Um, and there was a show on uh
00:02:46 --> 00:02:50 called a postcard from Earth, and you
00:02:50 --> 00:02:53 sit in what's a giant amphitheater, but
00:02:53 --> 00:02:57 the screen inside the sphere is all
00:02:57 --> 00:03:00 around you as far as you can look to the
00:03:00 --> 00:03:02 right and left in front of you and up
00:03:02 --> 00:03:06 over your head and behind you. And the
00:03:06 --> 00:03:09 images make it feel like you're
00:03:09 --> 00:03:11 actually, you know, the feeling when
00:03:11 --> 00:03:13 you're in a in a a jet airliner and
00:03:13 --> 00:03:15 you're coming into land and they move
00:03:15 --> 00:03:17 and maneuver and just get into position
00:03:18 --> 00:03:20 to make the final approach. That's what
00:03:20 --> 00:03:23 it feels like. That's that's the the way
00:03:23 --> 00:03:26 the images make you feel. You feel like
00:03:26 --> 00:03:28 you're flying in the open air in in in
00:03:28 --> 00:03:31 this amphitheater over the earth. the
00:03:31 --> 00:03:33 the the images are such super high
00:03:33 --> 00:03:37 definition, they look real. And I took a
00:03:37 --> 00:03:38 few photos while I was in there and I
00:03:38 --> 00:03:40 looked at them later and it looked like
00:03:40 --> 00:03:42 I was actually standing on a
00:03:42 --> 00:03:44 snow-covered mountaintop looking out
00:03:44 --> 00:03:45 over the
00:03:45 --> 00:03:48 mountains, but I was in a chair in a in
00:03:48 --> 00:03:49 a
00:03:49 --> 00:03:52 room. Amazing technology and really
00:03:52 --> 00:03:54 really enjoyable. So that was probably
00:03:54 --> 00:03:56 my highlight in uh Vegas. Then we flew
00:03:56 --> 00:04:01 to San Francisco and uh uh we did all
00:04:01 --> 00:04:03 the the stuff you do in San Francisco
00:04:03 --> 00:04:05 and everyone knows what that is. Pier 39
00:04:05 --> 00:04:08 and blah blah blah. Did all that. Um but
00:04:08 --> 00:04:10 I discovered that they have driverless
00:04:10 --> 00:04:13 taxis in San Francisco. You order your
00:04:13 --> 00:04:16 ride on a map. It just uh on an app. It
00:04:16 --> 00:04:17 turns up in front of you. You press the
00:04:18 --> 00:04:19 unlock button on your phone. You get in.
00:04:19 --> 00:04:21 You press start. Takes you wherever you
00:04:21 --> 00:04:24 want to go. It I I didn't even know it
00:04:24 --> 00:04:25 was a thing yet. I knew I thought they
00:04:25 --> 00:04:28 were testing them, but as it turns out,
00:04:28 --> 00:04:30 they are operational in four or five
00:04:30 --> 00:04:33 major cities in the United States, and
00:04:33 --> 00:04:36 they work. They work really well. Uh,
00:04:36 --> 00:04:39 and you know what? High quality
00:04:39 --> 00:04:43 vehicles, Jaguars. I was Newly Fred.
00:04:43 --> 00:04:46 Yep. But yeah, if if anyone's going to
00:04:46 --> 00:04:49 um New York, I think they're in San
00:04:49 --> 00:04:51 Francisco, Portland, maybe Seattle,
00:04:52 --> 00:04:53 maybe a couple of other places. If
00:04:53 --> 00:04:56 you're going there, give it a try. It is
00:04:56 --> 00:04:59 really great fun. Really great fun. So,
00:04:59 --> 00:05:01 we went we had a ball. Saw crocodiles in
00:05:01 --> 00:05:05 Costa Rica. Um, all sorts of stuff. It
00:05:05 --> 00:05:07 was a terrific trip. Really, really
00:05:07 --> 00:05:10 enjoyed it. So, back down to Earth. Back
00:05:10 --> 00:05:12 down we are.
00:05:12 --> 00:05:15 And now you're going out into space with
00:05:15 --> 00:05:17 the nuts. Indeed. Yes. And our first
00:05:18 --> 00:05:21 port of call will be Mercury. Uh now
00:05:21 --> 00:05:24 this story um I I I had a good read
00:05:24 --> 00:05:26 because you know um if you can get hold
00:05:26 --> 00:05:28 of some cheap diamonds it's always a
00:05:28 --> 00:05:31 good thing but uh these ones I imagine
00:05:31 --> 00:05:34 are hard to get to.
00:05:34 --> 00:05:37 Yeah that's right. Uh it's it's a story
00:05:37 --> 00:05:42 that um basically comes from uh a paper
00:05:42 --> 00:05:44 which is in nature communications. It's
00:05:44 --> 00:05:46 called a diamondbearing core mantle
00:05:46 --> 00:05:49 boundary on Mercury that really tells
00:05:49 --> 00:05:52 the story. uh and its uh authors are at
00:05:52 --> 00:05:56 at Chinese and Belgian universities or
00:05:56 --> 00:05:59 institutions and it's essentially the
00:05:59 --> 00:06:03 story here Andrew is that um the the the
00:06:03 --> 00:06:05 data we've got from Mercury is fairly
00:06:05 --> 00:06:07 sparse uh because there haven't been
00:06:07 --> 00:06:10 that many visits but um a spacecraft
00:06:10 --> 00:06:12 called Messenger
00:06:12 --> 00:06:15 uh did basically send back some
00:06:15 --> 00:06:20 extremely interesting data uh which uh
00:06:20 --> 00:06:25 essentially showed that carbon is very
00:06:25 --> 00:06:28 abundant on Mercury and in fact they
00:06:28 --> 00:06:31 reckon there's a there's a crust that is
00:06:31 --> 00:06:33 um perhaps the remnants of a a crust
00:06:33 --> 00:06:36 that was made entirely of graphite. Um
00:06:36 --> 00:06:39 and so uh that mean that means that you
00:06:39 --> 00:06:42 know when Mercury is being formed uh its
00:06:42 --> 00:06:46 core and its magma ocean that's the sort
00:06:46 --> 00:06:47 of ocean of molten rock that surrounds
00:06:48 --> 00:06:50 the core which the earth once had uh in
00:06:50 --> 00:06:52 its era when it had a magma ocean
00:06:52 --> 00:06:56 they're suggesting uh that that those
00:06:56 --> 00:06:58 regions of mercury were saturated with
00:06:58 --> 00:07:02 carbon and so what they've done is
00:07:02 --> 00:07:04 they've built models of the interior of
00:07:04 --> 00:07:06 mercury
00:07:06 --> 00:07:09 with this carbon sort of thrown into the
00:07:09 --> 00:07:13 mix. And it turns out um that you've got
00:07:13 --> 00:07:16 some really interesting thermodynamics
00:07:16 --> 00:07:19 and uh all kinds of
00:07:19 --> 00:07:21 interesting pressure temperature
00:07:21 --> 00:07:26 gradients um and maybe uh an influence
00:07:26 --> 00:07:29 of sulfur as well which is also present.
00:07:29 --> 00:07:33 Um they basically have worked out from
00:07:33 --> 00:07:35 these models that because of the
00:07:35 --> 00:07:39 pressure bearing down on the boundary
00:07:39 --> 00:07:43 between the the core of of uh mercury
00:07:43 --> 00:07:46 which is probably molten metal and the
00:07:46 --> 00:07:49 mantle which is uh sort of semi molten
00:07:49 --> 00:07:53 rock. The the the layer in between uh is
00:07:53 --> 00:07:57 carbonri. That is their their
00:07:57 --> 00:07:59 interpretation. And with these pressures
00:07:59 --> 00:08:01 and temperatures that carbon simply
00:08:01 --> 00:08:07 turns into diamond. Uh and so the
00:08:07 --> 00:08:09 thinking now is that there is a diamond
00:08:09 --> 00:08:13 layer uh uh at the top of uh of
00:08:13 --> 00:08:15 Mercury's core. And they also provide
00:08:15 --> 00:08:19 evidence that um suggests that
00:08:19 --> 00:08:22 uh that um it's the the different sort
00:08:22 --> 00:08:26 of um um transmission of temperature
00:08:26 --> 00:08:29 which we usually call conduction uh of a
00:08:29 --> 00:08:33 carbonri mantle uh that is sort of
00:08:33 --> 00:08:34 explaining some of the phenomena that we
00:08:34 --> 00:08:36 see on the surface of Mercury the
00:08:36 --> 00:08:40 cratering and possibly even uh ancient
00:08:40 --> 00:08:43 volcanic activity which might also be
00:08:43 --> 00:08:45 giving you some evidence of this diamond
00:08:45 --> 00:08:47 layer. The chances of actually digging
00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 it up um I think are pretty slender
00:08:50 --> 00:08:52 because you're talking about something
00:08:52 --> 00:08:55 that's at least 500 kilometers below the
00:08:55 --> 00:08:57 surface. I just looked it up. I just
00:08:57 --> 00:09:00 thinking um if if it would be remotely
00:09:00 --> 00:09:03 possible to get near it. No, I don't
00:09:03 --> 00:09:05 think so. Um, Mercury is interesting uh
00:09:05 --> 00:09:07 because um and we've talked about this
00:09:07 --> 00:09:10 before, but it's got a for its diameter
00:09:10 --> 00:09:13 which is roughly 5 kilometers, it's
00:09:13 --> 00:09:16 got um a core which is quite large. It's
00:09:16 --> 00:09:18 roughly 4 kilometers. So, its core
00:09:18 --> 00:09:22 is is much larger compared with the
00:09:22 --> 00:09:24 diameter of Mercury than the Earth's,
00:09:24 --> 00:09:27 which is a lot more compact. Uh and the
00:09:27 --> 00:09:30 thinking has has long been that maybe
00:09:30 --> 00:09:33 Mercury got like that because uh of a
00:09:33 --> 00:09:35 collision perhaps in the early solar
00:09:35 --> 00:09:38 system that knocked off most of the
00:09:38 --> 00:09:40 material of the mantle and left not
00:09:40 --> 00:09:42 quite a naked core but a core with a
00:09:42 --> 00:09:45 fairly thin mantle over the top of it.
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 And the Mercury could have been a a
00:09:48 --> 00:09:50 bigger planet at some stage. That's
00:09:50 --> 00:09:51 that's possible. That's right. That's
00:09:51 --> 00:09:55 the thinking. uh and that you know one
00:09:55 --> 00:09:59 of the reasons why um scientists can
00:09:59 --> 00:10:05 work on this planet with such um good
00:10:05 --> 00:10:07 information in terms of plugging into
00:10:07 --> 00:10:09 their models so that we can sort of see
00:10:09 --> 00:10:11 what's happening. One of the reasons for
00:10:12 --> 00:10:14 that is that unlike actually most of the
00:10:14 --> 00:10:17 other planets certainly unlike Venus or
00:10:17 --> 00:10:20 the other rocky planets I should say um
00:10:20 --> 00:10:21 Mercury has quite a strong magnetic
00:10:22 --> 00:10:23 field which was a big surprise when it
00:10:23 --> 00:10:25 was discovered. I think that might also
00:10:25 --> 00:10:27 have been a messenger discovery. So it's
00:10:27 --> 00:10:29 got a magnetic field uh and that
00:10:29 --> 00:10:32 suggests a molten core uh and the
00:10:32 --> 00:10:35 dynamics seem to suggest that that has
00:10:35 --> 00:10:39 on top of it a layer of diamond. Wow.
00:10:40 --> 00:10:42 Now, um I'm sort of getting ahead of
00:10:42 --> 00:10:44 myself here a bit, but in our next
00:10:44 --> 00:10:47 episode, we've got a question uh about
00:10:47 --> 00:10:50 fake news in in astronomy and space
00:10:50 --> 00:10:53 science and there's there's been a few
00:10:53 --> 00:10:55 stories over the over the years that
00:10:55 --> 00:10:56 have popped up and we've got, you know,
00:10:56 --> 00:10:58 the media gone into a frenzy and it's
00:10:58 --> 00:11:01 turned out to be wrong. Um this this
00:11:01 --> 00:11:03 story they're they're kind of hedging
00:11:03 --> 00:11:04 their bets because they're saying maybe,
00:11:04 --> 00:11:07 might be, could be. They're not saying
00:11:07 --> 00:11:09 definitely. Well, that's right. That's
00:11:09 --> 00:11:11 very much the scientific way of doing
00:11:11 --> 00:11:16 things. Um it's uh and and yes, look
00:11:16 --> 00:11:18 this I'm looking at the uh the actual
00:11:18 --> 00:11:20 paper that has been published. It was
00:11:20 --> 00:11:22 published on the
00:11:22 --> 00:11:24 uh it's actually published quite a while
00:11:24 --> 00:11:26 ago. That's quite interesting. I didn't
00:11:26 --> 00:11:28 realize that. It's published last year.
00:11:28 --> 00:11:32 Uh but um the uh the story has only
00:11:32 --> 00:11:34 really just emerged that there's there's
00:11:34 --> 00:11:36 diamonds there.
00:11:36 --> 00:11:38 Um maybe it's because it's buried so far
00:11:38 --> 00:11:40 under the surface. Nobody took any
00:11:40 --> 00:11:41 notice of it. But yeah, I'm looking at
00:11:41 --> 00:11:44 the paper which is very much a
00:11:44 --> 00:11:46 scientific paper and um has all the
00:11:46 --> 00:11:48 usual information there. This is not
00:11:48 --> 00:11:52 fake news. Uh it is some interesting
00:11:52 --> 00:11:54 theoretical work based on our
00:11:54 --> 00:11:56 observations of the smallest planets in
00:11:56 --> 00:11:58 the solar system which is no less
00:11:58 --> 00:12:02 interesting for that. Yes. Yeah. it uh
00:12:02 --> 00:12:04 well the the more we study the more we
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07 learn the more we hope to find out about
00:12:07 --> 00:12:10 how we got here and why etc. So um it
00:12:10 --> 00:12:14 just adds a bit more relevance to what
00:12:14 --> 00:12:17 is a big puzzle, a big mystery of of
00:12:17 --> 00:12:21 existence um entirely. I mean you know
00:12:21 --> 00:12:23 existence itself I think I I haven't
00:12:23 --> 00:12:25 said this for a long time but existed
00:12:25 --> 00:12:29 existence itself is a mystery.
00:12:29 --> 00:12:32 You call this existing well.
00:12:32 --> 00:12:36 Oh existing. Um
00:12:36 --> 00:12:38 we're walking down the Montipython road
00:12:38 --> 00:12:40 now. Yeah. Was that actually Eckles?
00:12:40 --> 00:12:41 That was a quote from Eckles in the
00:12:41 --> 00:12:46 Green show. Yes. Gold eclipse. Right.
00:12:46 --> 00:12:47 Gee, I haven't thought of them for a
00:12:47 --> 00:12:50 long time. Um, yes. Um, really
00:12:50 --> 00:12:52 interesting and as Fred said, it's in
00:12:52 --> 00:12:55 the Nature Communications uh publication
00:12:55 --> 00:12:58 or you can find it on daily galaxy.com.
00:12:58 --> 00:13:02 The G layer of Mercury. This is Space
00:13:02 --> 00:13:06 Nuts with Andrew Dunley and Fred Watson.
00:13:06 --> 00:13:08 Let's take a short break from the show
00:13:08 --> 00:13:11 to tell you about our sponsor Insta 360.
00:13:12 --> 00:13:14 Now, as you know, and particularly if
00:13:14 --> 00:13:16 you follow me on Facebook or Instagram,
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00:13:19 --> 00:13:22 trip, I was just in photo heaven. I
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00:13:24 --> 00:13:27 got it on this holiday with a whale
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00:16:44 --> 00:16:50 show notes. That's
00:16:50 --> 00:16:51 install.insta360.com. Now back to the
00:16:51 --> 00:16:58 show. 3 2 1 Space nuts. Now Fred, um it
00:16:58 --> 00:17:00 sounds like you've already had a
00:17:00 --> 00:17:03 conversation about the Lucy mission. Uh
00:17:03 --> 00:17:05 this is a spacecraft that's heading out
00:17:05 --> 00:17:07 to the Trojan asteroids to look at
00:17:07 --> 00:17:09 asteroid, which would be really good
00:17:09 --> 00:17:12 reason to go. Uh and it's already
00:17:12 --> 00:17:15 revealed something unusual. Yes, that's
00:17:15 --> 00:17:17 right. You you qualify that not unusual
00:17:17 --> 00:17:19 because we've seen these before, but
00:17:19 --> 00:17:22 we've got a nice picture. We do. We've
00:17:22 --> 00:17:24 got some stunning images uh from the
00:17:24 --> 00:17:28 Lucy spacecraft. They were taken uh uh
00:17:28 --> 00:17:30 at the beginning of this week, in fact.
00:17:30 --> 00:17:33 So, this is hot off the press. Um the
00:17:33 --> 00:17:36 the backstory is this spacecraft is on
00:17:36 --> 00:17:40 its way to survey the Trojan asteroids.
00:17:40 --> 00:17:41 Exactly as you've said, the groups of
00:17:42 --> 00:17:44 asteroids that um orbit in the same
00:17:44 --> 00:17:47 orbit as the planet Jupiter, 60 degrees
00:17:47 --> 00:17:50 ahead of Jupiter and 60 degrees behind
00:17:50 --> 00:17:52 Jupiter. Jupiter, they are known as the
00:17:52 --> 00:17:53 Greeks and the Trojans. I can't remember
00:17:53 --> 00:17:55 which is which, but that's that's the
00:17:55 --> 00:17:58 bottom line.
00:17:58 --> 00:18:03 But the the interesting aspect of uh of
00:18:03 --> 00:18:06 this is that they have basically had a
00:18:06 --> 00:18:10 flyby of another asteroid on route to
00:18:10 --> 00:18:13 the Trojan asteroid belt. And this is
00:18:13 --> 00:18:15 one that sits in the main asteroid belt.
00:18:15 --> 00:18:17 So, it's between the orbits of Mars and
00:18:17 --> 00:18:21 Jupiter. Uh, and it's an asteroid that
00:18:21 --> 00:18:25 was not big enough for to be really seen
00:18:25 --> 00:18:27 in any detail at
00:18:27 --> 00:18:29 all, excuse me, other than just being a
00:18:30 --> 00:18:32 point of light in the from earthly
00:18:32 --> 00:18:34 telescopes. But we now have these
00:18:34 --> 00:18:38 absolutely stunning images of it. And uh
00:18:38 --> 00:18:40 it is uh
00:18:40 --> 00:18:44 surprisingly bigger than uh the
00:18:44 --> 00:18:47 engineers who were um basically the
00:18:48 --> 00:18:49 mission commanders for Lucy than they
00:18:50 --> 00:18:52 thought. And so it's too big for the
00:18:52 --> 00:18:55 pictures that we had taken. Uh it's
00:18:55 --> 00:18:57 actually very much the shape I'd guess
00:18:58 --> 00:19:00 of a peanut in its shell is I was going
00:19:00 --> 00:19:03 to say um yeah potato, but no, you're
00:19:03 --> 00:19:06 right. It's peanut shaped. Yeah, it's
00:19:06 --> 00:19:09 it's it's probably two separate objects
00:19:09 --> 00:19:11 that have gradually come together and
00:19:11 --> 00:19:14 merged with landslides at their at their
00:19:14 --> 00:19:15 middle, the place where they've joined.
00:19:15 --> 00:19:18 A very common appearance among
00:19:18 --> 00:19:20 asteroids. And uh yes, you might
00:19:20 --> 00:19:24 remember um uh that object right at the
00:19:24 --> 00:19:25 edge of the solar system which was
00:19:25 --> 00:19:27 called Ultimately for a while and I've
00:19:27 --> 00:19:29 forgotten what Aracoth that's what it's
00:19:29 --> 00:19:32 called now. Araicth. Uh that is also
00:19:32 --> 00:19:35 very much this sort of structure. Uh
00:19:35 --> 00:19:37 it's got craters on it which you expect
00:19:37 --> 00:19:39 because these things are constantly or
00:19:39 --> 00:19:41 have been bashed over cosmic times by
00:19:41 --> 00:19:44 other small objects. Uh we think this uh
00:19:44 --> 00:19:48 asteroid is is a piece of of another
00:19:48 --> 00:19:52 asteroid that was collided by another
00:19:52 --> 00:19:54 asteroid something like 150 million
00:19:54 --> 00:19:57 years ago. And so it's a remnant from an
00:19:57 --> 00:19:59 earlier collision. Really interesting
00:19:59 --> 00:20:01 object. I think the reason why I just
00:20:01 --> 00:20:03 wanted to mention it again even though
00:20:03 --> 00:20:05 we we sort of covered the story last
00:20:05 --> 00:20:07 week before the images were taken. In
00:20:07 --> 00:20:09 fact, that's when Heidi and I spoke
00:20:09 --> 00:20:12 about it. Um the the really interesting
00:20:12 --> 00:20:15 thing and I'm sure this is what is uh
00:20:15 --> 00:20:18 exciting the uh those engineers that I
00:20:18 --> 00:20:19 just mentioned and the mission
00:20:19 --> 00:20:22 scientists who are running Lucy is that
00:20:22 --> 00:20:27 they used effectively uh an autonomous
00:20:27 --> 00:20:31 guidance system uh to point the camera
00:20:31 --> 00:20:35 uh at uh the asteroid. uh and that
00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 worked perfectly and it's going to save
00:20:38 --> 00:20:41 them time when they fly by the seven
00:20:41 --> 00:20:44 target asteroids in the uh in the Trojan
00:20:44 --> 00:20:47 belts uh because it means that they
00:20:47 --> 00:20:49 don't need to take images and send them
00:20:49 --> 00:20:51 back which takes several minutes uh and
00:20:52 --> 00:20:53 then sort of point the spacecraft so
00:20:53 --> 00:20:55 that you've got the images in the
00:20:55 --> 00:20:57 center. the spacecraft will do it all by
00:20:57 --> 00:20:59 itself and it was designed to do that.
00:20:59 --> 00:21:02 But this really confirms very nicely
00:21:02 --> 00:21:04 that that sort of auton autonomous
00:21:04 --> 00:21:07 acquisition of these targets actually
00:21:07 --> 00:21:11 works. Um so as as I've said the the
00:21:11 --> 00:21:14 only big surprise was that um that the
00:21:14 --> 00:21:17 uh the asteroid is uh longer than
00:21:17 --> 00:21:19 expected. It was expected to be a bit
00:21:19 --> 00:21:21 more potato shaped in fact as you
00:21:21 --> 00:21:23 mentioned but as as we said it's more
00:21:23 --> 00:21:26 like a peanut. So, it didn't really fit
00:21:26 --> 00:21:28 entirely into the uh into the field of
00:21:28 --> 00:21:30 view of the camera, but we've got enough
00:21:30 --> 00:21:32 of it to be very very impressed by what
00:21:32 --> 00:21:34 we've seen. Somebody needs to give Lucy
00:21:34 --> 00:21:37 some basic photography lessons, I guess.
00:21:37 --> 00:21:39 Well, yes, but you try it from, you
00:21:39 --> 00:21:42 know, from deep space and several
00:21:42 --> 00:21:44 million several tons of millions of
00:21:44 --> 00:21:47 kilometers from Earth. It it's actually
00:21:47 --> 00:21:50 quite a a stunning image that I'm
00:21:50 --> 00:21:53 looking at. That's off a.com website.
00:21:53 --> 00:21:55 Yeah, there's a nice Sorry, go ahead.
00:21:55 --> 00:21:57 No, and you can just see some really
00:21:57 --> 00:21:59 fine detail in it of the impact craters
00:21:59 --> 00:22:01 and and the shape and uh you can you can
00:22:01 --> 00:22:03 actually I think you can even see where
00:22:03 --> 00:22:06 it probably joined up. Yes, that little
00:22:06 --> 00:22:08 recess or crevice or whatever you want
00:22:08 --> 00:22:12 to call it. Um where the two objects
00:22:12 --> 00:22:15 probably merged. That's assumption. I
00:22:15 --> 00:22:16 think that's right. but with a bit of a
00:22:16 --> 00:22:18 ridge around it as well, which is yeah,
00:22:18 --> 00:22:20 what you'd find, I think, with with the
00:22:20 --> 00:22:23 the motion of of material. I mean, these
00:22:23 --> 00:22:26 things are not probably not terribly um
00:22:26 --> 00:22:29 firmly bound together. Uh they are that
00:22:29 --> 00:22:31 that will be loose material in the neck
00:22:31 --> 00:22:34 that joins the two objects which make up
00:22:34 --> 00:22:38 the peanut. Um the the um article that
00:22:38 --> 00:22:40 I've been looking at is on SC on the Sky
00:22:40 --> 00:22:42 Telescope website. I liked it very much
00:22:42 --> 00:22:44 because of the of the title which is
00:22:44 --> 00:22:47 meet asteroid Donald Johansson long and
00:22:47 --> 00:22:50 lumpy and that's the other nice aspect
00:22:50 --> 00:22:53 of this uh of this space craft and this
00:22:53 --> 00:22:56 space mission which we did mention uh a
00:22:56 --> 00:22:59 week or so ago. Uh the asteroid is named
00:22:59 --> 00:23:01 Donald Johansson who was the person who
00:23:01 --> 00:23:03 discovered Lucy that homminid fossil
00:23:03 --> 00:23:06 found in Ethiopia uh after which the
00:23:06 --> 00:23:09 spacecraft is named. So, yeah, it's a
00:23:09 --> 00:23:12 it's a nice a nice little link there.
00:23:12 --> 00:23:14 And we now know what Donald Johansson
00:23:14 --> 00:23:17 looks like. Yes. Yes. He's um he's bald,
00:23:17 --> 00:23:19 basically. Let's see with that, Andrew.
00:23:20 --> 00:23:22 Nothing at all. Nothing at all. Um, it
00:23:22 --> 00:23:26 also reminds me that uh Scarlett
00:23:26 --> 00:23:29 Johansson, probably not related to um
00:23:29 --> 00:23:31 Donald, uh, starred in a movie called
00:23:31 --> 00:23:35 Lucy, which was based on the um the
00:23:35 --> 00:23:39 origin of the species through the um
00:23:39 --> 00:23:42 homminid fossil. So, there you are.
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44 There you go. Very nice. Takes you down
00:23:44 --> 00:23:46 a very deep and complicated science
00:23:46 --> 00:23:48 fiction path, that film. But I love it.
00:23:48 --> 00:23:51 I've watched it probably five times.
00:23:51 --> 00:23:53 terrific film if you ever get the
00:23:53 --> 00:23:56 chance. It's wonder it's an absolute
00:23:56 --> 00:23:59 ripper. I I I really like the concept
00:23:59 --> 00:24:02 and um Morgan Freeman's in it as well.
00:24:02 --> 00:24:05 So yeah, A-list stars for an Agrade
00:24:05 --> 00:24:08 movie. So uh yeah, the Lucy spacecraft.
00:24:08 --> 00:24:09 Uh just one more quick question before
00:24:09 --> 00:24:12 we finish on that. uh which you may have
00:24:12 --> 00:24:15 already covered previously, but um what
00:24:15 --> 00:24:18 what do we do we know much about the um
00:24:18 --> 00:24:21 uh the the the asteroids that it's it's
00:24:21 --> 00:24:23 targeting? Uh that that region, the
00:24:23 --> 00:24:25 Greeks and the what is it? The Greeks
00:24:25 --> 00:24:27 and the Romans or whatever they were.
00:24:27 --> 00:24:30 The Trojans and the Greeks the Romans.
00:24:30 --> 00:24:31 That's right. Yeah. Greek and the
00:24:31 --> 00:24:33 Trojans. Yes.
00:24:34 --> 00:24:36 Yeah. And and as far as I remember um
00:24:36 --> 00:24:39 it's six asteroids from one group and
00:24:39 --> 00:24:41 one from the other. They're managing to
00:24:41 --> 00:24:43 sort of skirt around past Jupiter so
00:24:43 --> 00:24:46 they can check out whether these two
00:24:46 --> 00:24:50 groups are the same. Um, we don't
00:24:50 --> 00:24:52 actually know much about them. We know,
00:24:52 --> 00:24:55 you know, from spectroscopy and using
00:24:55 --> 00:24:57 infrared filters and things like that to
00:24:57 --> 00:24:58 look at these objects. We we just see
00:24:58 --> 00:25:01 the the light from them rather than the
00:25:01 --> 00:25:04 surfaces of them. um uh we we can tell
00:25:04 --> 00:25:06 that they're made pretty much like the
00:25:06 --> 00:25:08 rest of the asteroids in the asteroid
00:25:08 --> 00:25:11 belt, but there will be differences and
00:25:11 --> 00:25:13 that's what I think is makes this whole
00:25:13 --> 00:25:15 experiment very interesting to find out
00:25:15 --> 00:25:18 what exactly differentiates Trojan
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20 asteroids from their neighbors in the
00:25:20 --> 00:25:24 main asteroid belt itself. Um uh and
00:25:24 --> 00:25:27 it's true as well that you know their
00:25:27 --> 00:25:29 proximity to Jupiter they're they're a
00:25:29 --> 00:25:31 long way behind and ahead of Jupiter in
00:25:31 --> 00:25:33 its orbit but they're they're following
00:25:33 --> 00:25:35 the same path that could have modified
00:25:35 --> 00:25:38 their surfaces to some extent. Uh um you
00:25:38 --> 00:25:41 know because the Jupiter basks in
00:25:41 --> 00:25:43 subatomic particles because of because
00:25:43 --> 00:25:45 of its magnetic field. Who knows what
00:25:45 --> 00:25:47 effects they might have had. Uh no doubt
00:25:47 --> 00:25:49 we'll find out when uh I think the first
00:25:49 --> 00:25:52 of the Trojan asteroids is intercepted.
00:25:52 --> 00:25:54 I believe in 2027 if I remember. Yes,
00:25:54 --> 00:25:56 it's been a long trip this one, but it
00:25:56 --> 00:25:58 always is when you go out there. Yeah,
00:25:58 --> 00:26:01 that's right. It is. All right. Uh you
00:26:01 --> 00:26:03 can read up on that one at
00:26:03 --> 00:26:06 space.com. This is Space Nuts with
00:26:06 --> 00:26:09 Andrew and Fred.
00:26:09 --> 00:26:11 Now, a word from our sponsor,
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00:28:47 --> 00:28:49 show.
00:28:49 --> 00:28:53 And I feel space nuts. Our final story
00:28:53 --> 00:28:56 today is looking at the dark ages. Um,
00:28:56 --> 00:28:58 and we're not talking about nights of
00:28:58 --> 00:29:00 the round table or anything like that.
00:29:00 --> 00:29:03 Um, we are talking about the dark ages
00:29:03 --> 00:29:06 of the universe when we hadn't even
00:29:06 --> 00:29:09 formed any stars as yet. I I'm just
00:29:09 --> 00:29:11 trying to figure out, Fred, because this
00:29:11 --> 00:29:13 mission uh, as far as I read was about
00:29:13 --> 00:29:16 mapping the dark universe, but if you
00:29:16 --> 00:29:18 didn't have any stars, you wouldn't be
00:29:18 --> 00:29:21 able to see anything to map. Ah, there
00:29:21 --> 00:29:23 you go. And that's a good point because
00:29:23 --> 00:29:25 what u you know it's still one of the
00:29:25 --> 00:29:29 holy grails of uh of astronomy uh
00:29:29 --> 00:29:34 is looking for the first stars that
00:29:34 --> 00:29:36 switched on. So what's sometimes called
00:29:36 --> 00:29:39 cosmic dawn uh and that as you've
00:29:39 --> 00:29:41 exactly as you've said that came
00:29:41 --> 00:29:44 immediately after the dark ages. Uh and
00:29:44 --> 00:29:46 so the first stars to switch on are very
00:29:46 --> 00:29:50 much the province of big telescopes uh
00:29:50 --> 00:29:52 like the James Web, although that
00:29:52 --> 00:29:55 probably is not quite powerful enough to
00:29:55 --> 00:29:58 penetrate back to when those first stars
00:29:58 --> 00:30:02 switched on. Um maybe two or 300 million
00:30:02 --> 00:30:05 years after the Big Bang itself. uh it
00:30:05 --> 00:30:07 looks back to very much that sort of
00:30:07 --> 00:30:09 era, but we're still seeing galaxies at
00:30:09 --> 00:30:11 that at that time when they're looking
00:30:11 --> 00:30:14 about 300 million years after the Big
00:30:14 --> 00:30:18 Bang. Um so um we we we we don't yet
00:30:18 --> 00:30:20 have the visible light telescopes to do
00:30:20 --> 00:30:23 that. We will have when the European
00:30:23 --> 00:30:26 ELT, the extremely large telescope comes
00:30:26 --> 00:30:28 on stream in 2028, then we'll have a
00:30:28 --> 00:30:31 mirror big enough to probably detect the
00:30:31 --> 00:30:34 very first stars. It's 39 m in diameter.
00:30:34 --> 00:30:36 It's going to detect very faint light
00:30:36 --> 00:30:39 indeed. So that will be um you know the
00:30:39 --> 00:30:43 time when we do see the first stars. But
00:30:43 --> 00:30:46 we can infer when those stars switched
00:30:46 --> 00:30:49 on by looking at the effect they had on
00:30:49 --> 00:30:51 their environment. Uh because the the
00:30:51 --> 00:30:55 first stars uh actually basically
00:30:55 --> 00:30:58 radiated lots of ultraviolet radiation
00:30:58 --> 00:31:03 and that affected the um uh the the cold
00:31:03 --> 00:31:07 hydrogen gas which was basically what
00:31:07 --> 00:31:09 the universe was made of then. In in the
00:31:09 --> 00:31:10 dark ages, the universe was called
00:31:10 --> 00:31:13 hydrogen. Uh that was all that there was
00:31:13 --> 00:31:16 around. Uh and so the first star
00:31:16 --> 00:31:19 switching on uh basically changed the
00:31:19 --> 00:31:22 state of that called hydrogen. And it's
00:31:22 --> 00:31:25 that that these mini telescopes will be
00:31:26 --> 00:31:29 looking for because if you can do this
00:31:30 --> 00:31:33 for the whole sky, uh you know, if you
00:31:33 --> 00:31:36 if you if you can look for that cold
00:31:36 --> 00:31:39 hydrogen signal for the from the whole
00:31:39 --> 00:31:42 sky. Uh then you don't actually need a
00:31:42 --> 00:31:44 giant telescope. Uh there's there's one
00:31:44 --> 00:31:47 in Western Australia. It's the size of a
00:31:47 --> 00:31:49 dining table and it's called edges. And
00:31:49 --> 00:31:52 a few years ago uh they thought they had
00:31:52 --> 00:31:56 seen this signal uh of uh of the first
00:31:56 --> 00:31:58 stars. It turned out not to be the case.
00:31:58 --> 00:32:01 It turned out to be a false alarm. Uh
00:32:01 --> 00:32:02 but you can tell that something the size
00:32:02 --> 00:32:04 of a dining table that's a radio
00:32:04 --> 00:32:08 telescope believe it or not uh is not it
00:32:08 --> 00:32:09 doesn't compare with something like the
00:32:09 --> 00:32:11 parks dish for example not very far from
00:32:11 --> 00:32:15 where you are now. Yeah. So uh you can
00:32:15 --> 00:32:18 do this as long as you've got with a
00:32:18 --> 00:32:20 small radio telescope as long as you've
00:32:20 --> 00:32:24 got complete radio silence around you.
00:32:24 --> 00:32:26 uh because the signal you're looking for
00:32:26 --> 00:32:30 is right in the middle of the FM bad uh
00:32:30 --> 00:32:33 broadcasts and of course in most of the
00:32:33 --> 00:32:35 world you you're you're swamped by these
00:32:35 --> 00:32:38 FM radio signals and if you're trying to
00:32:38 --> 00:32:40 find a weak signal from the universe in
00:32:40 --> 00:32:43 amongst that uh you're in big trouble
00:32:43 --> 00:32:45 and so the proposal with this and to cut
00:32:45 --> 00:32:48 to the chase of this story is to mount a
00:32:48 --> 00:32:51 fleet of mini satellites uh probably
00:32:51 --> 00:32:54 cubats and then basically put them in
00:32:54 --> 00:32:58 orbit around the moon so that uh they
00:32:58 --> 00:33:00 will be uh for part of the time they
00:33:00 --> 00:33:02 will be within the moon shadow from the
00:33:02 --> 00:33:05 radio contamination that would come from
00:33:05 --> 00:33:08 earth. Uh so the dark side of the moon
00:33:08 --> 00:33:11 is a very very radio quiet place and
00:33:11 --> 00:33:14 that's what this study is all about. Uh
00:33:14 --> 00:33:17 but actually uh capitalizing on that
00:33:17 --> 00:33:19 exploiting that to find a very weak
00:33:19 --> 00:33:22 radio signal. Well makes sense. I mean,
00:33:22 --> 00:33:24 if you if you're going through the
00:33:24 --> 00:33:25 middle of the FM band, you're going to
00:33:26 --> 00:33:27 get all sorts of weird wonderful
00:33:27 --> 00:33:30 bullheads. I used to be one of them.
00:33:30 --> 00:33:32 Yes.
00:33:32 --> 00:33:36 Yeah. Um, no, I love them. But, uh, it's
00:33:36 --> 00:33:38 that's, you know, the dark side of the
00:33:38 --> 00:33:41 moon has some has some uses and and
00:33:41 --> 00:33:43 we've got I think we've got spacecraft
00:33:43 --> 00:33:45 that have landed there recently and
00:33:45 --> 00:33:46 they're trying to figure it all out.
00:33:46 --> 00:33:49 It's it's I I find the moon fascinating
00:33:49 --> 00:33:51 in that regard because it's got so you
00:33:51 --> 00:33:52 know there's so much difference between
00:33:52 --> 00:33:54 what we can see and what we can't. Uh
00:33:54 --> 00:33:57 even in the terrain it's it's a very
00:33:57 --> 00:34:01 unusual um astral body, isn't it? It is.
00:34:01 --> 00:34:04 That's right. Um and it, you know, the
00:34:04 --> 00:34:05 more we find out about it, the more
00:34:05 --> 00:34:07 unusual it appears. And you're quite
00:34:07 --> 00:34:10 right. It's the um is it Changa 4? It's
00:34:10 --> 00:34:12 one of the Changa series of China
00:34:12 --> 00:34:14 spacecraft which is on the on the far
00:34:14 --> 00:34:17 side of the moon. uh and actually um
00:34:17 --> 00:34:20 that communicates with earth
00:34:20 --> 00:34:24 via a a sort of relay station which is
00:34:24 --> 00:34:26 also on the far side of the moon. So
00:34:26 --> 00:34:29 there is at least one uh source of
00:34:29 --> 00:34:31 contaminating radiation for any radio
00:34:31 --> 00:34:33 telescope you put up there. But at least
00:34:33 --> 00:34:36 that can be switched off. Yeah. Well, if
00:34:36 --> 00:34:39 they choose use them. Uh yes, indeed.
00:34:39 --> 00:34:42 All right. Uh that story you can read up
00:34:42 --> 00:34:45 at daily galaxy.com, but uh you can also
00:34:45 --> 00:34:48 follow it on several news outlets. Uh
00:34:48 --> 00:34:51 and uh yes uh hopefully they'll come up
00:34:51 --> 00:34:53 with some fascinating information
00:34:53 --> 00:34:55 eventually. I I think they're still are
00:34:55 --> 00:34:57 they I think they're in the planning
00:34:57 --> 00:34:59 phase, aren't they? Or are they further?
00:34:59 --> 00:35:02 It's a proposal still. Yes. So fingers
00:35:02 --> 00:35:04 crossed they can find the the money to
00:35:04 --> 00:35:07 to send those cube sats up and get that
00:35:07 --> 00:35:10 show on the road. Uh speaking of which,
00:35:10 --> 00:35:13 this show uh is ending its journey in
00:35:13 --> 00:35:15 this particular episode. Uh thank you,
00:35:15 --> 00:35:17 Fred, as always. Thanks very much,
00:35:17 --> 00:35:20 Andrew. Great to see you back. And um um
00:35:20 --> 00:35:23 we enjoyed having Heidi very much. Uh
00:35:23 --> 00:35:25 but it's good to welcome you back uh
00:35:25 --> 00:35:27 after her soldier on here. Thank you,
00:35:28 --> 00:35:29 Fred. I appreciate that. And thanks to
00:35:29 --> 00:35:32 Hugh in the studio for um not talking to
00:35:32 --> 00:35:35 me for the last four or five weeks. That
00:35:35 --> 00:35:38 was good. No, he's good. He's
00:35:38 --> 00:35:40 cool. I'm gonna go to hell for that one.
00:35:40 --> 00:35:42 Anyway, uh and don't forget to follow us
00:35:42 --> 00:35:44 online through our website or our social
00:35:44 --> 00:35:47 media platforms. Uh always good to get
00:35:47 --> 00:35:49 your um your feedback. So, keep that
00:35:49 --> 00:35:52 coming and we will see you real soon on
00:35:52 --> 00:35:54 the very next episode of Space Nuts.
00:35:54 --> 00:35:57 Until then, bye-bye. Space Nuts. You'll
00:35:57 --> 00:36:01 be listening to the Space Nuts podcast
00:36:01 --> 00:36:04 available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
00:36:04 --> 00:36:07 iHeart Radio, or your favorite podcast
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00:36:10 --> 00:36:12 byes.com. This has been another quality
00:36:12 --> 00:36:17 podcast production from byes.com.