This episode is brought to you with the support of Incogni. If you're privacy online is important to you, then you really need Incogni...and by using our special link you can currently get 60% off! Witha 30 day money back guarantee. Check out the details here: www.incogni.com/spacenuts (https://www.incogni.com/spacenuts)
Space Nuts Episode 510: The Sun's Mass Loss, Black Holes, and Dark Matter Mysteries
In this thought-provoking episode of Space Nuts, host Heidi Campo and astronomer Professor Fred Watson tackle some fascinating listener questions that delve into the complexities of our universe. From the sun's mass loss over billions of years to the enigmatic relationship between primordial black holes and dark energy, this episode is packed with illuminating discussions that will expand your cosmic understanding.
Episode Highlights:
- The Sun's Mass Over Time: Heidi and Fred explore a listener's question about how much smaller the sun is now compared to two billion years ago. They discuss the staggering amount of hydrogen it burns each second and how this affects its overall mass, revealing that the sun has only lost a minuscule fraction of its mass over its lifetime.
- Primordial Black Holes and Dark Energy: The duo addresses a listener's inquiry into the connection between primordial black holes and dark energy. They explain why the mathematics of current theories do not support the idea that evaporating black holes could account for the universe's accelerated expansion.
- The Final Parsecs of Black Hole Mergers: A deep dive into the complexities of black hole mergers leads to discussions about gravitational waves and the challenges of understanding what happens during these cosmic events. Fred shares insights on the final parsec problem and the mysterious nature of singularities.
- Dark Matter and Energy Manifest: The episode wraps up with a listener's intriguing proposition that dark matter could be energy manifest. Fred clarifies how dark matter may have originated from energy during the Big Bang, while the quest to uncover its true nature continues.
For more Space Nuts, including our continually updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. (https://www.spacenutspodcast.com/) Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on Facebook, X, YouTube Music Music, Tumblr, Instagram, and TikTok. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favorite platform.
If you'd like to help support Space Nuts and join our growing family of insiders for commercial-free episodes and more, visit spacenutspodcast.com/about (https://www.spacenutspodcast.com/about)
Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
(00:00) Welcome to Space Nuts with Heidi Campo and Fred Watson
(01:40) Discussion on the sun's mass loss over billions of years
(11:20) The relationship between primordial black holes and dark energy
(22:15) Insights into black hole mergers and gravitational waves
(30:00) Exploring the nature of dark matter and energy manifest
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-exploring-the-cosmos--2631155/support (https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-exploring-the-cosmos--2631155/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss) .
Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/26475957?utm_source=youtube
00:00:00 --> 00:00:03 welcome to Space Nuts i'm your host
00:00:03 --> 00:00:05 today Heidi Compo and I'm here with
00:00:05 --> 00:00:07 Professor Fred Watson astronomer at
00:00:07 --> 00:00:11 large and we are going to be answering
00:00:11 --> 00:00:14 some of your questions today 15 seconds
00:00:14 --> 00:00:18 guidance is internal 10 9g Ignition
00:00:18 --> 00:00:24 sequence start space nuts 5 4 3 2 1 2 3
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 4 5 4 3 2 1 Space nuts astronauts report
00:00:27 --> 00:00:29 it feels good
00:00:29 --> 00:00:34 so we have a question from Keith Wilson
00:00:34 --> 00:00:37 keith did not list where he was from are
00:00:37 --> 00:00:40 you from Earth Keith or are you hailing
00:00:40 --> 00:00:44 us from another planet uh that would be
00:00:44 --> 00:00:47 my question for Keith keith's question
00:00:47 --> 00:00:51 for Fred is I have a question because
00:00:51 --> 00:00:54 the sun burns its fuel so fast how much
00:00:54 --> 00:00:58 smaller is it now compared to its size 2
00:00:58 --> 00:01:01 billion years ago
00:01:01 --> 00:01:04 um and it's there's an answer to that
00:01:04 --> 00:01:07 which we can calculate we weren't around
00:01:07 --> 00:01:09 2 billion years ago so it's not easy to
00:01:09 --> 00:01:11 measure it then um but we can work out
00:01:11 --> 00:01:15 what it was by the rate at which the sun
00:01:15 --> 00:01:17 is burning its fuel now so the sun goes
00:01:17 --> 00:01:19 through and these numbers always stagger
00:01:19 --> 00:01:24 me uh roughly four million tons of fuel
00:01:24 --> 00:01:26 hydrogen fuel per
00:01:26 --> 00:01:27 [Music]
00:01:27 --> 00:01:32 second and that means you think my god
00:01:32 --> 00:01:35 that's an awful lot of hydrogen every
00:01:35 --> 00:01:37 second uh that's what it's turning into
00:01:37 --> 00:01:40 helium and it's that process the nuclear
00:01:40 --> 00:01:42 fusion that is releasing the energy that
00:01:42 --> 00:01:47 we see um um with um you know with the
00:01:47 --> 00:01:49 all the light and the subatomic
00:01:49 --> 00:01:50 particles and everything that comes from
00:01:50 --> 00:01:53 the sun is the underlying process is
00:01:53 --> 00:01:56 that nuclear fusion uh the the there is
00:01:56 --> 00:01:59 also um uh I've not seen this statistic
00:01:59 --> 00:02:01 before but I did look it up about 1 and
00:02:01 --> 00:02:04 a half million tons per second that is
00:02:04 --> 00:02:06 the solar wind that's the particles
00:02:06 --> 00:02:09 coming off the sun uh so there's this
00:02:09 --> 00:02:12 loss of about you know roughly five
00:02:12 --> 00:02:17 million tons per second so uh you can do
00:02:17 --> 00:02:21 the calculation and it turns out that
00:02:21 --> 00:02:24 what saves the day is the sun is very
00:02:24 --> 00:02:27 big uh it's you know it's got the the
00:02:27 --> 00:02:32 the huge amount of of um of material in
00:02:32 --> 00:02:35 it when you think of it it's 100 times
00:02:35 --> 00:02:37 the diameter of the earth uh it's a very
00:02:37 --> 00:02:39 very massive object so there's a lot of
00:02:40 --> 00:02:44 it so that uh release of energy and so
00:02:44 --> 00:02:48 solar particles over its lifetime 4.6
00:02:48 --> 00:02:50 billion years amounts to a loss of mass
00:02:50 --> 00:02:55 of wait for it uh
00:02:55 --> 00:02:59 0.05% it's virtually negligible uh the
00:02:59 --> 00:03:02 sun's mass has changed but by a very
00:03:02 --> 00:03:04 tiny amount uh there's a number of
00:03:04 --> 00:03:06 places on the web where you can find
00:03:06 --> 00:03:09 that calculation uh but uh that's what
00:03:09 --> 00:03:12 we believe it's lost mass but it's only
00:03:12 --> 00:03:15 lost a tiny amount compared with its in
00:03:15 --> 00:03:18 you know the the mass of the sun itself
00:03:18 --> 00:03:20 that's interesting i have never thought
00:03:20 --> 00:03:23 about that but it's good that this is
00:03:23 --> 00:03:25 something that doesn't need to also keep
00:03:25 --> 00:03:27 me up at night along with the other
00:03:27 --> 00:03:30 things I worry about
00:03:30 --> 00:03:34 um our next question is from Michael who
00:03:34 --> 00:03:37 is in New York hello this is Mike from
00:03:37 --> 00:03:39 New York and I have a question about
00:03:39 --> 00:03:43 primordial black holes and dark energy
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45 uh I believe you guys have addressed
00:03:45 --> 00:03:47 questions before about primordial black
00:03:47 --> 00:03:50 holes and how a concentration of them
00:03:50 --> 00:03:53 could result in dark matter and the
00:03:53 --> 00:03:55 gravitation that we observe behind them
00:03:55 --> 00:03:59 and that's I believe generally been
00:03:59 --> 00:04:01 disproven my question is how could
00:04:01 --> 00:04:03 primordial black holes potentially
00:04:03 --> 00:04:07 relate to dark energy if we assume that
00:04:07 --> 00:04:10 they are spread evenly across the
00:04:10 --> 00:04:13 universe if there's a sufficient amount
00:04:13 --> 00:04:17 of them as they evaporate and that loss
00:04:17 --> 00:04:19 of gravitation
00:04:19 --> 00:04:22 um goes with them as they evaporate
00:04:22 --> 00:04:24 could that explain the increased
00:04:24 --> 00:04:26 acceleration of the expanding of the
00:04:26 --> 00:04:29 universe being driven by dark energy i'm
00:04:29 --> 00:04:33 just curious to know if you've heard of
00:04:33 --> 00:04:35 that being tossed about before as an
00:04:35 --> 00:04:38 idea and as I imagine the math doesn't
00:04:38 --> 00:04:41 bear out has any studies been conducted
00:04:41 --> 00:04:44 to definitively say that is not the case
00:04:44 --> 00:04:47 thanks guys and keep up the good work
00:04:47 --> 00:04:50 yeah thank you Mike good question the um
00:04:50 --> 00:04:52 you're right the math doesn't bear it
00:04:52 --> 00:04:56 out um but the the bottom line here well
00:04:56 --> 00:05:00 two things I guess um what was it
00:05:00 --> 00:05:03 that basically got rid of the idea that
00:05:03 --> 00:05:07 dark matter was made up of primordial
00:05:07 --> 00:05:10 black holes um it was experiments done
00:05:10 --> 00:05:11 in
00:05:11 --> 00:05:15 the '9s 1990s
00:05:15 --> 00:05:19 uh to look for the gravitational lensing
00:05:19 --> 00:05:21 effect if we had a universe that was
00:05:21 --> 00:05:24 filled with black holes um that we
00:05:24 --> 00:05:26 couldn't see because they weren't
00:05:26 --> 00:05:28 gobbling anything up so they didn't glow
00:05:28 --> 00:05:30 in X-rays as you do when you're gobbling
00:05:30 --> 00:05:34 stuff up if you're a black hole uh the
00:05:34 --> 00:05:36 the those black holes should have
00:05:36 --> 00:05:40 distorted the images uh of stars behind
00:05:40 --> 00:05:42 them magnified them and we should have
00:05:42 --> 00:05:44 seen these if we measured the brightness
00:05:44 --> 00:05:48 of large fields of stars uh regularly we
00:05:48 --> 00:05:51 should have seen um stars brightening
00:05:51 --> 00:05:53 and dimming all over the place due to
00:05:53 --> 00:05:55 all these black holes uh and that was
00:05:55 --> 00:05:58 not uh was not seen it was an experiment
00:05:58 --> 00:06:01 called macho and macho actually
00:06:01 --> 00:06:05 was basically the the acronym for those
00:06:05 --> 00:06:07 objects massive compact halo objects
00:06:08 --> 00:06:11 machos uh so it was at that point that
00:06:11 --> 00:06:13 we decided it wasn't machos it was wimps
00:06:13 --> 00:06:15 uh wimps being weakly interacting
00:06:16 --> 00:06:18 massive particles and that's what we've
00:06:18 --> 00:06:20 been looking for ever since with dark
00:06:20 --> 00:06:23 matter not finding it I have to say but
00:06:23 --> 00:06:26 then going on to your uh your comment
00:06:26 --> 00:06:28 about black holes relating to dark
00:06:28 --> 00:06:32 energy um black holes do evaporate we
00:06:32 --> 00:06:36 know that from the effect of what the
00:06:36 --> 00:06:39 theoretical work that was done by by
00:06:39 --> 00:06:42 Steven Hawking back in the 70s actually
00:06:42 --> 00:06:44 uh that demonstrated that there is a
00:06:44 --> 00:06:47 radiation that comes from black holes
00:06:47 --> 00:06:49 it's by quantum processes rather than
00:06:49 --> 00:06:52 relativistic processes uh and that is
00:06:52 --> 00:06:54 called Hawking radiation and what it
00:06:54 --> 00:06:56 leads to is the evaporation of black
00:06:56 --> 00:07:00 holes but the time scale for that
00:07:00 --> 00:07:03 doesn't tally with the dark energy
00:07:03 --> 00:07:06 problem um black holes evaporate but on
00:07:06 --> 00:07:09 time scales of tens to hundreds of
00:07:09 --> 00:07:12 billions of years it's a slow slow
00:07:12 --> 00:07:15 process and um it's hard to imagine how
00:07:15 --> 00:07:17 that could contribute in any way uh to
00:07:17 --> 00:07:19 the dark energy that we see that is
00:07:19 --> 00:07:21 making the universe expand ever more
00:07:21 --> 00:07:25 rapidly so um a nice idea which uh which
00:07:25 --> 00:07:27 I think doesn't as exactly as you've
00:07:27 --> 00:07:29 said doesn't hold up because of the
00:07:29 --> 00:07:31 mathematics thanks a lot thanks again
00:07:31 --> 00:07:33 Michael yeah that's very very
00:07:34 --> 00:07:36 interesting a lot of uh deep thinking
00:07:36 --> 00:07:39 questions here yes
00:07:39 --> 00:07:41 now let's take a break from the show to
00:07:41 --> 00:07:44 tell you about our sponsor incogn and
00:07:44 --> 00:07:46 get ready to write down the URL and the
00:07:46 --> 00:07:49 keyword to get a special deal as a space
00:07:49 --> 00:07:52 nuts listener do you ever wonder just
00:07:52 --> 00:07:54 how much of your personal information is
00:07:54 --> 00:07:57 floating around the internet your name
00:07:57 --> 00:07:59 your phone number even your home address
00:07:59 --> 00:08:03 all being bought sold and shared by data
00:08:03 --> 00:08:05 brokers you've never heard of and guess
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 what that's why your phone won't stop
00:08:08 --> 00:08:11 ringing with spam calls your inbox is
00:08:11 --> 00:08:13 overflowing with junk mail and you're
00:08:13 --> 00:08:15 more vulnerable to identity theft than
00:08:15 --> 00:08:18 you probably think that's where Incogn
00:08:18 --> 00:08:23 comes in incogn is a powerful automated
00:08:23 --> 00:08:25 personal data removal service that
00:08:25 --> 00:08:28 fights back for you once you sign up
00:08:28 --> 00:08:31 Incogn scans over 200 data brokers and
00:08:31 --> 00:08:34 sends legal removal requests on your
00:08:34 --> 00:08:36 behalf and all you have to do is sit
00:08:36 --> 00:08:38 back and they'll do all the heavy
00:08:38 --> 00:08:40 lifting filing requests doing the
00:08:40 --> 00:08:43 followup keeping you updated every step
00:08:43 --> 00:08:46 of the way and within weeks you'll
00:08:46 --> 00:08:48 notice fewer rooc calls fewer spam
00:08:48 --> 00:08:50 emails and less of your personal
00:08:50 --> 00:08:52 information floating around for cyber
00:08:52 --> 00:08:55 criminals and marketers to grab it even
00:08:55 --> 00:08:57 helps reduce the risk of being caught up
00:08:57 --> 00:09:00 in identity theft or fishing scams and
00:09:00 --> 00:09:03 the best part within Cognney's annual
00:09:03 --> 00:09:06 subscription they don't just stop at one
00:09:06 --> 00:09:08 sweep they keep scanning and sending
00:09:08 --> 00:09:11 removal requests on repeat so you stay
00:09:11 --> 00:09:13 protected all year long right now
00:09:14 --> 00:09:16 through this link you get an exclusive
00:09:16 --> 00:09:20 60% off with the code spacen nuts plus
00:09:20 --> 00:09:23 it's risk-free with their 30-day money
00:09:23 --> 00:09:24 back
00:09:24 --> 00:09:28 guarantee
00:09:28 --> 00:09:32 incogn.com/spacenuts that's the URL i
00:09:32 --> 00:09:36 ni
00:09:36 --> 00:09:37 incogn.com/spacenuts protect your
00:09:37 --> 00:09:42 privacy stop the spam visit
00:09:42 --> 00:09:44 incogn.com/spacenuts and the special
00:09:44 --> 00:09:47 word spacen nuts to get that great deal
00:09:47 --> 00:09:50 today and take back control of your data
00:09:50 --> 00:09:57 now back to the show 3 2 1 Space nuts
00:09:57 --> 00:10:00 and speaking of deep questions we have
00:10:00 --> 00:10:05 Duncan Sergeant from Waymouth it's a
00:10:05 --> 00:10:08 follow-up question and it is a thesis
00:10:08 --> 00:10:10 that he's having me read here so buckle
00:10:10 --> 00:10:14 up listeners we have the question of the
00:10:14 --> 00:10:17 episode coming at you hello to both of
00:10:17 --> 00:10:19 you this is a follow-up question from
00:10:19 --> 00:10:22 one I asked ages ago well over a year if
00:10:22 --> 00:10:25 I recall it was the one about how can
00:10:25 --> 00:10:27 two black holes merge into one if no
00:10:28 --> 00:10:30 mass can come out of a black hole
00:10:30 --> 00:10:33 neither can take the matter from one
00:10:33 --> 00:10:35 neither can take the matter from one to
00:10:35 --> 00:10:37 the other to become one of all the
00:10:38 --> 00:10:40 questions I have sent the answer to this
00:10:40 --> 00:10:42 is the one that was the least satisfying
00:10:42 --> 00:10:45 I felt normally I feel you give good
00:10:45 --> 00:10:48 answers but on this one I was but this
00:10:48 --> 00:10:50 is the one that I was suggested that I
00:10:50 --> 00:10:53 read up on the process well I have spent
00:10:53 --> 00:10:56 months doing this he has done his
00:10:56 --> 00:10:58 homework he has read it and I still do
00:10:58 --> 00:11:00 not have a definitive answer but I will
00:11:00 --> 00:11:03 lay out what I have discovered basically
00:11:03 --> 00:11:05 as black holes near merge something
00:11:06 --> 00:11:08 happens within them that creates massive
00:11:08 --> 00:11:10 amounts of gravitational waves this
00:11:10 --> 00:11:14 accounts for roughly 10% mass loss to in
00:11:14 --> 00:11:17 the eventual combined black hole i
00:11:17 --> 00:11:19 initially thought this mass loss was
00:11:19 --> 00:11:22 from the event horizon only but
00:11:22 --> 00:11:24 apparently not and the actual black
00:11:24 --> 00:11:27 holes themselves lose mass now neither
00:11:27 --> 00:11:29 mass or energy can escape the black
00:11:29 --> 00:11:32 holes but apparently this is what the
00:11:32 --> 00:11:34 math says and words can't really
00:11:34 --> 00:11:36 describe it other than just to say that
00:11:36 --> 00:11:40 the mass says so as it does it is
00:11:40 --> 00:11:42 something to do with the mass energy
00:11:42 --> 00:11:44 that is not really defined in the way
00:11:44 --> 00:11:46 that we think it is and it becomes a bit
00:11:46 --> 00:11:50 fuzzy the gravitational waves are in
00:11:50 --> 00:11:52 spaceime itself and the whole merger
00:11:52 --> 00:11:54 process is somehow carried out with the
00:11:54 --> 00:11:57 actual confines of the spaceime they
00:11:57 --> 00:11:59 occupy rather than the actual black
00:11:59 --> 00:12:01 holes themselves as we know neither of
00:12:01 --> 00:12:03 them can actually take mass from the
00:12:03 --> 00:12:06 other apparently at the very last point
00:12:06 --> 00:12:09 before they merge each black hole sends
00:12:09 --> 00:12:11 out a very thin tentacle of something
00:12:11 --> 00:12:13 which when they touch together the
00:12:13 --> 00:12:16 merger happens however whilst this
00:12:16 --> 00:12:18 mathematically defined it is not able to
00:12:18 --> 00:12:22 be easily defined by words so could
00:12:22 --> 00:12:25 Professor Fred please attempt to put
00:12:25 --> 00:12:28 into words for me as with all the
00:12:28 --> 00:12:30 reading I have done my head hurts and I
00:12:30 --> 00:12:33 cannot think of a way to put it myself
00:12:33 --> 00:12:36 how much does matter from one black hole
00:12:36 --> 00:12:39 or two of them get extracted from one
00:12:39 --> 00:12:41 from sorry get extracted from the other
00:12:41 --> 00:12:44 and combined what happens to the actual
00:12:44 --> 00:12:47 singularity do we end up with nested
00:12:47 --> 00:12:51 singularities and how can that exist
00:12:51 --> 00:12:54 please help me understand then easily in
00:12:54 --> 00:12:57 easily defined English i get impressed
00:12:57 --> 00:12:59 from I get impressed from what I have
00:12:59 --> 00:13:01 read that a lot of this comes down to
00:13:01 --> 00:13:03 the math that says that we see it
00:13:03 --> 00:13:05 happening so it does but we actually
00:13:05 --> 00:13:08 don't know we actually don't know how is
00:13:08 --> 00:13:11 that pretty much it okay thank you for
00:13:11 --> 00:13:13 looking into my answer my followup i
00:13:13 --> 00:13:15 look forward to your podcast each week
00:13:15 --> 00:13:17 listening carefully for new snippets of
00:13:17 --> 00:13:20 information please keep up the good work
00:13:20 --> 00:13:24 well done Heidi thank you most Duncan
00:13:24 --> 00:13:26 put me through the challenge my first
00:13:26 --> 00:13:29 Q&A yeah it's like a script for a whole
00:13:29 --> 00:13:33 show but thank you Duncan uh yeah Duncan
00:13:33 --> 00:13:35 a fellow Brit living in Wemouth there in
00:13:35 --> 00:13:37 the south of England always nice to hear
00:13:37 --> 00:13:40 from him uh but this yeah look Duncan
00:13:40 --> 00:13:43 this is um it's a challenging thing and
00:13:43 --> 00:13:46 it challenges uh the
00:13:46 --> 00:13:49 whole you know the whole of astrophysics
00:13:49 --> 00:13:53 um because we don't really know what
00:13:53 --> 00:13:58 happens to black holes within that last
00:13:58 --> 00:14:02 uh well 3.26 light years is the number
00:14:02 --> 00:14:04 it's called the the final parseek
00:14:04 --> 00:14:07 problem a parseek is a distance it's
00:14:07 --> 00:14:09 what astronomers measure rather than
00:14:09 --> 00:14:10 light years you can't measure light
00:14:10 --> 00:14:12 years because we don't have stopwatches
00:14:12 --> 00:14:15 good enough but a parseek is 3.26 light
00:14:15 --> 00:14:18 years and it's what we uh in the trade
00:14:18 --> 00:14:20 of astronomy what we actually uh talk
00:14:20 --> 00:14:24 about uh so the final parseek problem uh
00:14:24 --> 00:14:27 is um that there's not
00:14:27 --> 00:14:33 um the the way the the energy from the
00:14:33 --> 00:14:36 merging black holes is released into
00:14:36 --> 00:14:38 gravitational waves which is exactly
00:14:38 --> 00:14:41 what you've said uh that is the issue
00:14:41 --> 00:14:45 how does it happen um I'm going to read
00:14:45 --> 00:14:49 uh a paragraph from uh actually
00:14:49 --> 00:14:52 space.com one of uh the websites that we
00:14:52 --> 00:14:55 are big fans of at Space Nuts um they
00:14:55 --> 00:14:57 had an article a few years ago called
00:14:57 --> 00:15:00 What Happens When Black Holes Merge uh
00:15:00 --> 00:15:03 and I'll I'll read a paragraph from that
00:15:03 --> 00:15:05 um because it sort of illuminates uh
00:15:05 --> 00:15:11 what you said uh and um actually sort of
00:15:11 --> 00:15:14 quotes uh uh almost quotes to the letter
00:15:14 --> 00:15:16 what you what you had in your uh what
00:15:16 --> 00:15:19 you had in your um question the final
00:15:19 --> 00:15:21 part problem reading now is currently an
00:15:21 --> 00:15:23 unsolved riddle in astrophysics but
00:15:23 --> 00:15:25 whatever mechanism takes place
00:15:25 --> 00:15:27 eventually black holes get close enough
00:15:27 --> 00:15:29 that the gravitational waves can really
00:15:29 --> 00:15:32 pull a lot of energy from the system at
00:15:32 --> 00:15:34 the this point the black holes only have
00:15:34 --> 00:15:37 a few seconds before they merge at those
00:15:38 --> 00:15:40 close distances the black holes start to
00:15:40 --> 00:15:42 deform each other they don't really have
00:15:42 --> 00:15:44 surfaces the event horizons are just
00:15:44 --> 00:15:46 invisible boundaries that mark the
00:15:46 --> 00:15:48 region of no escape but the shape of the
00:15:48 --> 00:15:50 event horizon depends not just on the
00:15:50 --> 00:15:52 black hole itself but also the geometry
00:15:52 --> 00:15:54 of spaceime around it so as the black
00:15:54 --> 00:15:57 holes begin their deadly dance the event
00:15:57 --> 00:15:59 horizons elongate and stretch towards
00:15:59 --> 00:16:02 each other we understand what happens
00:16:02 --> 00:16:04 next only through complex computer
00:16:04 --> 00:16:06 simulations that monitor and track the
00:16:06 --> 00:16:08 evolution of the event horizons in the
00:16:08 --> 00:16:11 milliseconds before impact each black
00:16:11 --> 00:16:14 hole sends out a thin tendril a tiny tr
00:16:14 --> 00:16:17 tunnel of its event horizon towards its
00:16:17 --> 00:16:20 companion these tendrils meet and merge
00:16:20 --> 00:16:22 forming a bridge between the two black
00:16:22 --> 00:16:24 holes as if they were connected by an
00:16:24 --> 00:16:26 umbilical cord very quickly the bridge
00:16:26 --> 00:16:28 widens and the event horizons glue
00:16:28 --> 00:16:31 together like two colliding soap bubbles
00:16:31 --> 00:16:33 within an instant the black holes merge
00:16:34 --> 00:16:36 into one but here's the crunch what
00:16:36 --> 00:16:39 happens inside is anybody's guess the
00:16:39 --> 00:16:41 center of a black hole is known as a
00:16:41 --> 00:16:43 singularity a point of infinite density
00:16:43 --> 00:16:44 this is where our current understanding
00:16:44 --> 00:16:47 of physics breaks down simulations show
00:16:47 --> 00:16:49 that the singularities quickly find each
00:16:49 --> 00:16:51 other briefly orbit and then merge but
00:16:51 --> 00:16:56 what actually happens is unclear um so
00:16:56 --> 00:16:58 Duncan your your question is at the
00:16:58 --> 00:17:01 forefront of astrophysics uh and um I
00:17:01 --> 00:17:04 applaud you for asking it i don't think
00:17:04 --> 00:17:05 you'll find this answer satis
00:17:06 --> 00:17:08 satisfactory um as you've commented
00:17:08 --> 00:17:11 before because you're asking questions
00:17:11 --> 00:17:13 that really we don't have answers to but
00:17:13 --> 00:17:15 thank you for getting your head around
00:17:15 --> 00:17:17 the problem in the way that you have and
00:17:17 --> 00:17:20 thanks again for your question
00:17:20 --> 00:17:23 fred are there any theories
00:17:23 --> 00:17:25 yes theories about what are the leading
00:17:25 --> 00:17:27 what are the leading theories well it's
00:17:27 --> 00:17:29 basically what we've said we you know
00:17:29 --> 00:17:32 that somehow uh the black holes uh
00:17:32 --> 00:17:34 actually come together that there is a
00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 there's a sort of all this happens uh
00:17:37 --> 00:17:39 very much in the last absolutely the
00:17:39 --> 00:17:43 last few milliseconds of a merger um and
00:17:43 --> 00:17:45 um that's the bit that we see with the
00:17:45 --> 00:17:48 gravitational wave um records that that
00:17:48 --> 00:17:52 we get from u instruments like LIGO the
00:17:52 --> 00:17:54 large interferometric gravitational wave
00:17:54 --> 00:17:56 observatory uh and other gravitational
00:17:56 --> 00:17:58 wave detectors so somehow they come
00:17:58 --> 00:18:02 together there is a a phenomenon which
00:18:02 --> 00:18:04 is talked about in black hole
00:18:04 --> 00:18:08 merger parliament as being the ring down
00:18:08 --> 00:18:12 and this is when the merger is complete
00:18:12 --> 00:18:15 uh there the gravitational waves from
00:18:15 --> 00:18:18 the collision have been emitted they've
00:18:18 --> 00:18:21 basically stopped they switched off uh
00:18:21 --> 00:18:24 and the thing rings down and it's got I
00:18:24 --> 00:18:26 suppose implications of something
00:18:26 --> 00:18:29 vibrating uh so it may well be that
00:18:30 --> 00:18:32 there is a bit more to the story than
00:18:32 --> 00:18:36 what we've just been talking about uh
00:18:36 --> 00:18:39 but um that's after the event that's
00:18:39 --> 00:18:42 after the collision has happened and um
00:18:42 --> 00:18:44 Duncan's problem is trying to understand
00:18:44 --> 00:18:46 how something that you know you that
00:18:46 --> 00:18:48 won't let go of any mass how how it can
00:18:48 --> 00:18:51 come together with something else and
00:18:51 --> 00:18:54 the answer is it does you know I think
00:18:54 --> 00:18:56 of this in probably this might be the
00:18:56 --> 00:18:58 strangest metaphor you've ever thought
00:18:58 --> 00:19:00 of for black holes but I'm thinking of
00:19:00 --> 00:19:03 this like cooking an egg if we have two
00:19:03 --> 00:19:05 cracked eggs in a frying pan they're
00:19:05 --> 00:19:07 they're you know the the yolk would
00:19:07 --> 00:19:10 represent the singularity and the white
00:19:10 --> 00:19:12 would represent the event horizon if
00:19:12 --> 00:19:15 these two eggs were to let's just say
00:19:15 --> 00:19:16 because eggs don't do this but let's
00:19:16 --> 00:19:18 just say they the they were being pulled
00:19:18 --> 00:19:21 towards each other and merged that point
00:19:22 --> 00:19:23 where they're merging is when the yolks
00:19:23 --> 00:19:26 both break so there is kind of a point
00:19:26 --> 00:19:30 where it's two broken eggs but then if
00:19:30 --> 00:19:32 they merged together to form one super
00:19:32 --> 00:19:34 egg there would be something going on
00:19:34 --> 00:19:36 there i don't know this is how my brain
00:19:36 --> 00:19:38 is trying to wrap around these really
00:19:38 --> 00:19:40 complex problems is something as simple
00:19:40 --> 00:19:42 as food
00:19:42 --> 00:19:44 food's a good way to do
00:19:44 --> 00:19:48 it in uh if in doubt turn to food and so
00:19:48 --> 00:19:53 um I think it's a good metaphor
00:19:53 --> 00:19:55 okay we checked all four systems and
00:19:55 --> 00:19:57 being with the girls space nets all
00:19:57 --> 00:20:01 right so our last question for today is
00:20:01 --> 00:20:04 from Lawrence Lawrence Ingum and this is
00:20:04 --> 00:20:07 a audio question hi Fred and Andrew it's
00:20:07 --> 00:20:09 Lawrence from Ingam here i have a
00:20:09 --> 00:20:11 question about your favorite subject
00:20:11 --> 00:20:14 matter that being dark matter um and
00:20:14 --> 00:20:17 I'll cut straight to the chase could
00:20:17 --> 00:20:19 dark matter not simply be energy
00:20:19 --> 00:20:22 manifest and and what I mean by that is
00:20:22 --> 00:20:25 it seems that during really intense
00:20:25 --> 00:20:28 periods in the universe we don't really
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30 have the current scientific models to
00:20:30 --> 00:20:34 explain how those processes occur and my
00:20:34 --> 00:20:36 main example would be the epoch of
00:20:36 --> 00:20:39 inflation where such a rapid expansion
00:20:39 --> 00:20:41 of the universe in such a small period
00:20:41 --> 00:20:44 of time to me seems as though there must
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46 be processes going on there which we
00:20:46 --> 00:20:49 just do not understand and we cannot
00:20:49 --> 00:20:53 recreate we cannot test it but there
00:20:53 --> 00:20:55 must have been in such an intense period
00:20:56 --> 00:20:58 certain processes in which events
00:20:58 --> 00:21:01 happened which created things like
00:21:01 --> 00:21:04 potentially dark matter and when you
00:21:04 --> 00:21:06 look at the expansion of the universe
00:21:06 --> 00:21:08 and reasons why there's all this
00:21:08 --> 00:21:12 unaccounted mass um all these things we
00:21:12 --> 00:21:14 attribute to dark matter could that not
00:21:14 --> 00:21:17 potentially be simply energy manifest
00:21:17 --> 00:21:19 during that epoch of inflation energy
00:21:19 --> 00:21:22 itself could potentially have been
00:21:22 --> 00:21:24 transformed into a different type of
00:21:24 --> 00:21:26 matter which we do not understand yet
00:21:26 --> 00:21:29 and cannot understand but that would
00:21:29 --> 00:21:32 explain why the universe is expanding it
00:21:32 --> 00:21:34 would explain why we can't visualize and
00:21:34 --> 00:21:36 test dark matter because once that
00:21:36 --> 00:21:39 energy has been used you can't then test
00:21:39 --> 00:21:43 it because it's expanding universe and I
00:21:43 --> 00:21:45 guess it also somewhat aligns with
00:21:45 --> 00:21:47 Einstein's equations with energy and
00:21:47 --> 00:21:50 mass being almost interchangeable i
00:21:50 --> 00:21:52 don't know it seems that there are
00:21:52 --> 00:21:54 certain periods in which we cannot
00:21:54 --> 00:21:56 explain what was going on and our
00:21:56 --> 00:21:57 current scientific models aren't fit for
00:21:58 --> 00:22:00 purpose because those events are so
00:22:00 --> 00:22:02 unique and so extreme um is this
00:22:02 --> 00:22:04 something that's been explored is it
00:22:04 --> 00:22:06 something that's currently being
00:22:06 --> 00:22:07 explored um I'd love to hear your
00:22:07 --> 00:22:10 answers many thanks so
00:22:11 --> 00:22:15 uh so yes um in fact you know the answer
00:22:15 --> 00:22:22 is um uh Lawrence uh the
00:22:22 --> 00:22:25 the you you've basically said exactly
00:22:25 --> 00:22:27 what the situation is as we understand
00:22:27 --> 00:22:28 it
00:22:28 --> 00:22:31 sorry pausing for words there uh trying
00:22:31 --> 00:22:35 to find new words uh the um so the idea
00:22:36 --> 00:22:39 of dark matter being energy manifest in
00:22:39 --> 00:22:42 other words energy turned into matter
00:22:42 --> 00:22:45 because they're related by E= MC²
00:22:45 --> 00:22:47 uh is how we think it got there that's
00:22:48 --> 00:22:50 how we what we think the origin of dark
00:22:50 --> 00:22:53 matter is uh within the big bang itself
00:22:53 --> 00:22:56 which uh was an energetic phenomenon
00:22:56 --> 00:22:59 that very quickly created the matter
00:22:59 --> 00:23:02 that we see in the universe uh so it's
00:23:02 --> 00:23:04 uh that some of the processes are
00:23:04 --> 00:23:05 actually quite well understood it's not
00:23:06 --> 00:23:09 that we're not understanding that uh
00:23:09 --> 00:23:11 it's just when it happened that it
00:23:11 --> 00:23:13 happened right at the beginning the dark
00:23:13 --> 00:23:15 matter was created at the same time
00:23:15 --> 00:23:17 whatever it is was created at the same
00:23:17 --> 00:23:19 time as the normal matter what we call
00:23:19 --> 00:23:22 the barionic matter uh and basically
00:23:22 --> 00:23:24 formed this as the universe expanded
00:23:24 --> 00:23:26 formed this web of material that we call
00:23:26 --> 00:23:28 the cosmic web and that led to the
00:23:28 --> 00:23:30 distribution of galaxies that we see
00:23:30 --> 00:23:33 today so uh you're you're the answer to
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36 your question is yes but it doesn't
00:23:36 --> 00:23:39 change the issue we yes energy was
00:23:39 --> 00:23:42 turned into particles but we don't know
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44 what those particles are the dark matter
00:23:44 --> 00:23:47 particles are as yet undiscovered it's
00:23:47 --> 00:23:49 some form of super you know subatomic
00:23:49 --> 00:23:52 particle uh which is very important in
00:23:52 --> 00:23:54 the universe we think it's why galaxies
00:23:54 --> 00:23:57 formed uh without it maybe they didn't
00:23:57 --> 00:23:59 they wouldn't have formed uh so the
00:23:59 --> 00:24:00 quest is still on to find out what dark
00:24:00 --> 00:24:02 matter is but you're right it came from
00:24:02 --> 00:24:06 energy excellent Fred well I I I feel
00:24:06 --> 00:24:09 enlightened myself these are fantastic
00:24:09 --> 00:24:10 questions and it's interesting you know
00:24:10 --> 00:24:13 there's always so many questions that
00:24:13 --> 00:24:14 everyone always wants to ask about dark
00:24:14 --> 00:24:17 holes and dark matter and the big
00:24:17 --> 00:24:19 heavy-hitting questions is the questions
00:24:19 --> 00:24:22 that all humanity has and I think that
00:24:22 --> 00:24:24 it's that's just the exciting thing is
00:24:24 --> 00:24:26 to remember there's there's that's the
00:24:26 --> 00:24:28 thing in space is there's more questions
00:24:28 --> 00:24:30 than there are answers and we do our
00:24:30 --> 00:24:33 best on this show to provide answers but
00:24:33 --> 00:24:36 ultimately it's up to the scientists and
00:24:36 --> 00:24:39 the people who are discovering these
00:24:39 --> 00:24:41 things and you can even get involved as
00:24:41 --> 00:24:43 a as a citizen scientist i'll give a
00:24:43 --> 00:24:45 little plug for NASA and some of the
00:24:45 --> 00:24:47 opportunities they have for free online
00:24:47 --> 00:24:49 you can you can um help contribute to
00:24:49 --> 00:24:51 some of this research if you look up
00:24:51 --> 00:24:53 citizen science with NASA that's
00:24:53 --> 00:24:54 something you can get involved with
00:24:54 --> 00:24:56 yourself already always a fan of citizen
00:24:56 --> 00:24:59 science absolutely some great things
00:24:59 --> 00:25:01 have come from citizen science
00:25:01 --> 00:25:03 yeah absolutely do you have anything
00:25:03 --> 00:25:05 else you'd like to say about uh citizen
00:25:05 --> 00:25:07 science
00:25:07 --> 00:25:09 no we we might do we might have a chat
00:25:09 --> 00:25:11 about that down the track one of our
00:25:11 --> 00:25:13 upcoming episodes because it is it's
00:25:13 --> 00:25:16 it's such a now a fundamental part of
00:25:16 --> 00:25:18 what we do it's very very important not
00:25:18 --> 00:25:21 just in astronomy and astrophysics but
00:25:21 --> 00:25:23 of course in the the you know the whole
00:25:23 --> 00:25:26 world of research um whether it's botony
00:25:26 --> 00:25:31 or arctic uh arctic um evol ecology uh
00:25:31 --> 00:25:33 all of those things can benefit from
00:25:33 --> 00:25:35 citizen science yeah oh well and there's
00:25:35 --> 00:25:38 the really really fun um one if you guys
00:25:38 --> 00:25:39 have telescopes and you're into
00:25:39 --> 00:25:42 astronomy as I assume these listeners
00:25:42 --> 00:25:44 are you can even look up uh some of the
00:25:44 --> 00:25:46 exoplanet opportunities that you can
00:25:46 --> 00:25:49 have with NASA to try and help um
00:25:49 --> 00:25:50 discover and identify
00:25:50 --> 00:25:53 exoplanets um but with that being said I
00:25:53 --> 00:25:55 think we've uh answered some questions
00:25:55 --> 00:25:58 we've gave some questions and we have
00:25:58 --> 00:26:01 more questions yet to answer so uh Fred
00:26:01 --> 00:26:04 thank you so much that uh concludes
00:26:04 --> 00:26:07 another Q&A session of Space Nuts great
00:26:07 --> 00:26:09 pleasure Heidi always good to talk and
00:26:09 --> 00:26:12 we'll speak again soon space Nuts you've
00:26:12 --> 00:26:16 been listening to the Space Nuts podcast
00:26:16 --> 00:26:19 available at Apple Podcasts Spotify
00:26:19 --> 00:26:22 iHeart Radio or your favorite podcast
00:26:22 --> 00:26:24 player you can also stream on demand at
00:26:25 --> 00:26:27 byes.com this has been another quality
00:26:27 --> 00:26:31 podcast production from byes.com