Surfing Gravitational Waves, Space-Time Rotation, and Cosmic Jokes
In this engaging Q&A edition of Space Nuts, host Andrew Dunkley and the ever-knowledgeable Professor Fred Watson tackle a range of thought-provoking questions from listeners worldwide. From the mechanics of gravitational waves to the mysteries of dark matter and some cosmic humour, this episode promises to enlighten and entertain.
Episode Highlights:
- Gravitational Waves Explained: Andrew and Fred Watson dive into a listener's question about whether gravitational waves can carry objects like a surfer riding a wave. They clarify the nature of gravitational waves and how they interact with matter, debunking some common misconceptions along the way.
- Space-Time and Dark Matter: The duo discusses another intriguing question about the relationship between space-time, energy, and dark matter. They explore Rusty's complex theories about the rotation of space and its implications for our understanding of the universe.
- Light Sails and Laser Propulsion: Dave from Indiana asks about the feasibility of using lasers to propel spacecraft via light sails. Andrew and Fred Watson unpack this fascinating concept, referencing ongoing research and experiments in the field of space propulsion.
- Cosmic Jokes: The episode takes a light-hearted turn as Andrew and Fred Watson attempt to unravel some space-themed jokes sent in by listeners. They explore the humour behind these cosmic quips, including the infamous "faster than light" neutrino joke and the intricacies of barred spiral galaxies.
For more Space Nuts, including our continually updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on Facebook, X, YouTube Music, Tumblr, Instagram, and TikTok. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favourite platform.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
(00:00) Welcome to Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley and Fred Watson Watson
(01:20) Discussion on gravitational waves and listener questions
(15:00) Exploring the relationship between space-time and dark matter
(25:30) The concept of laser propulsion and light sails
(35:00) Cosmic jokes and their scientific explanations
For commercial-free versions of Space Nuts, join us on Patreon, Supercast, Apple Podcasts, or become a supporter here: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Andrew Dunkley: Hi there. Andrew Dunkley here. You're
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 listening to or watching Space Nuts, A, Q and
00:00:05 --> 00:00:07 A edition. Good to have your company. And
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 coming up, we have got questions from all
00:00:10 --> 00:00:13 over the district. or maybe all over the
00:00:13 --> 00:00:14 planet. we're going to be surfing
00:00:14 --> 00:00:17 gravitational waves. Well, the question is,
00:00:17 --> 00:00:20 can we. But I'll elaborate when
00:00:20 --> 00:00:23 we get to that. the rotation of space time
00:00:23 --> 00:00:26 has come up, firing, lasers into space.
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28 And we've got a couple of jokes, which is
00:00:28 --> 00:00:29 nice, but
00:00:31 --> 00:00:34 they're so funny nobody laughs because we
00:00:34 --> 00:00:36 don't understand them. But, that's the nature
00:00:36 --> 00:00:39 of the jokes because Judd wants
00:00:39 --> 00:00:41 Fred Watson to explain why they're funny. So
00:00:41 --> 00:00:44 we'll get it. We'll get to that and much more
00:00:44 --> 00:00:46 on this episode of space nuts.
00:00:46 --> 00:00:49 Generic: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.
00:00:49 --> 00:00:52 10, 9. Ignition
00:00:52 --> 00:00:54 sequence start. space nuts. 5, 4, 3,
00:00:55 --> 00:00:57 2. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4.
00:00:57 --> 00:01:00 3, 2 dot Space Nuts.
00:01:00 --> 00:01:02 Astronauts report. It feels good.
00:01:02 --> 00:01:05 Andrew Dunkley: And he's back again. And he's reached a point
00:01:05 --> 00:01:08 in his life where he can tell. Great dad
00:01:08 --> 00:01:11 jokes. Great, great, great dad jokes.
00:01:11 --> 00:01:12 Perhaps. Hello, Fred Watson.
00:01:13 --> 00:01:14 Professor Fred Watson: yeah, no, I'm not a great granddad. I am a
00:01:14 --> 00:01:17 granddad, though. yes, and, with a new. A new
00:01:17 --> 00:01:20 granddaughter who, oh, we'll be seeing this
00:01:20 --> 00:01:21 week sometime.
00:01:21 --> 00:01:21 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah.
00:01:21 --> 00:01:21 Professor Fred Watson: Excellent.
00:01:21 --> 00:01:24 Andrew Dunkley: It's very good news. yes. good to
00:01:24 --> 00:01:26 see you, Fred Watson. By the way, thanks for
00:01:26 --> 00:01:26 joining us.
00:01:26 --> 00:01:28 Professor Fred Watson: I was passing by, I thought might as well.
00:01:29 --> 00:01:31 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I couldn't do this without you because,
00:01:31 --> 00:01:33 I would have no idea about some of the
00:01:33 --> 00:01:36 answers to these questions. But, we might as
00:01:36 --> 00:01:38 well just go straight to it. And our first
00:01:38 --> 00:01:40 question comes from sunny
00:01:40 --> 00:01:41 California.
00:01:42 --> 00:01:45 Rennie wants to know, theoretically, can
00:01:45 --> 00:01:47 gravitational waves pick up any kind of
00:01:47 --> 00:01:49 subatomic particles or larger objects and
00:01:49 --> 00:01:51 carry them for a certain period of time and
00:01:52 --> 00:01:54 drop them off as they get weaker? Kind of
00:01:54 --> 00:01:57 like a surfer catching a wave. Now, gotta
00:01:57 --> 00:01:59 tell you, in one of my science fiction
00:01:59 --> 00:02:02 novels, I did this exact thing. Although it
00:02:02 --> 00:02:03 wasn't a small object. It was a
00:02:05 --> 00:02:07 space battle cruiser that got picked up
00:02:07 --> 00:02:10 by a neutron bomb
00:02:10 --> 00:02:12 explosion which created a gravitational wave.
00:02:12 --> 00:02:14 But that's another story, and it's science
00:02:14 --> 00:02:16 fiction, so I could do whatever I like. But,
00:02:16 --> 00:02:18 yeah, that's a good question. can they pick
00:02:18 --> 00:02:21 anything up and carry it for a distance?
00:02:21 --> 00:02:24 Professor Fred Watson: Well, no. apparently not. I checked
00:02:24 --> 00:02:26 this one up, a while ago,
00:02:27 --> 00:02:30 and, so
00:02:30 --> 00:02:32 gravitational waves are a deformation
00:02:32 --> 00:02:35 of spacetime. And,
00:02:36 --> 00:02:39 objects, feel them, because
00:02:39 --> 00:02:42 that's how we detect them. The fact that the
00:02:42 --> 00:02:45 Shape of space changes slightly as a
00:02:45 --> 00:02:47 gravitational wave passes through. it's,
00:02:47 --> 00:02:50 basically a vibration of space time. and
00:02:50 --> 00:02:52 we detect that by. Well, one way of
00:02:52 --> 00:02:55 detecting it is by using two mirrors,
00:02:56 --> 00:02:58 four kilometres apart in the case of ligo,
00:02:58 --> 00:03:01 the, Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave
00:03:01 --> 00:03:03 Observatory. two mirrors whose
00:03:03 --> 00:03:06 separation can be measured
00:03:06 --> 00:03:09 to, what is it? 1 10th of the diameter
00:03:09 --> 00:03:11 of a neutron, I think a proton.
00:03:12 --> 00:03:12 Andrew Dunkley: Wow.
00:03:12 --> 00:03:14 Professor Fred Watson: It's ridiculous. Yeah, ridiculous.
00:03:15 --> 00:03:17 But that's what you need, because the. As
00:03:17 --> 00:03:20 we've talked about before, the, In fact, I
00:03:20 --> 00:03:21 think we mentioned this last week, the
00:03:21 --> 00:03:24 flexibility of space is very, very low. It's
00:03:24 --> 00:03:26 very stiff. 100 billion billion
00:03:27 --> 00:03:29 times the stiffness of steel if you use
00:03:29 --> 00:03:32 Young's modulus as a yardstick. so, But
00:03:32 --> 00:03:35 space does vibrate. but, that's what
00:03:35 --> 00:03:37 happens. So it vibrates as the wave
00:03:37 --> 00:03:40 passes through, but you don't get
00:03:40 --> 00:03:42 surfed by the wave. You know, it doesn't pick
00:03:42 --> 00:03:45 things up and carry them with it. That's.
00:03:45 --> 00:03:46 Which is Rennie's point, I think,
00:03:48 --> 00:03:51 things feel its presence, they feel it by the
00:03:52 --> 00:03:54 vibrations that it sets up, but
00:03:55 --> 00:03:57 they stay put. And that's just as well,
00:03:57 --> 00:03:58 because, you know, the Earth's being
00:03:58 --> 00:04:00 bombarded by gravitational waves all the
00:04:00 --> 00:04:03 time. We really wouldn't want to be carried
00:04:03 --> 00:04:05 away, from our neat and tidy orbit around the
00:04:05 --> 00:04:07 sun by passing through.
00:04:08 --> 00:04:09 Andrew Dunkley: But, you know, what you've just done? You've
00:04:09 --> 00:04:10 debunked my book.
00:04:11 --> 00:04:14 Professor Fred Watson: Well, that's. I, wasn't going to mention
00:04:14 --> 00:04:14 that.
00:04:14 --> 00:04:16 Andrew Dunkley: However. However, I. I will. I will
00:04:16 --> 00:04:19 qualify by saying it wasn't, you know, a
00:04:19 --> 00:04:21 standard gravitational wave.
00:04:21 --> 00:04:23 Professor Fred Watson: That was the neutron bomb. Gravitational.
00:04:24 --> 00:04:26 Andrew Dunkley: Created by human action. So, you know,
00:04:26 --> 00:04:28 I might get away with that one, but,
00:04:29 --> 00:04:32 Yeah, So you did say they're
00:04:32 --> 00:04:34 hitting us all the time. Because I remember
00:04:34 --> 00:04:36 when we first talked about gravitational
00:04:36 --> 00:04:39 waves being discovered, it seemed like a rare
00:04:39 --> 00:04:40 event, but it's not.
00:04:40 --> 00:04:42 Professor Fred Watson: No, that's right. And in fact, you and I have
00:04:42 --> 00:04:45 spoken about the sort of background noise of
00:04:45 --> 00:04:46 gravitational waves that m.
00:04:47 --> 00:04:50 Swirling around, the planet all the
00:04:50 --> 00:04:53 time. and yes, it's just as
00:04:53 --> 00:04:56 well that space is so stiff, because
00:04:57 --> 00:04:59 otherwise we'd be getting rattled pretty
00:04:59 --> 00:05:01 badly all the time by gravitational waves.
00:05:02 --> 00:05:04 Andrew Dunkley: Nice. Well, okay, good.
00:05:05 --> 00:05:07 Other things can rattle us.
00:05:07 --> 00:05:09 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, they can. And that neutron bomb
00:05:09 --> 00:05:11 explosion might, actually rattle us to the
00:05:11 --> 00:05:13 one you were talking about in your book. But
00:05:13 --> 00:05:14 that would be a shockwave, not a
00:05:14 --> 00:05:15 gravitational wave.
00:05:15 --> 00:05:18 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, indeed. All right, thank you,
00:05:18 --> 00:05:20 Rennie. Lovely to Hear from you. Rennie's one
00:05:20 --> 00:05:21 of our regular contributors.
00:05:22 --> 00:05:23 Our next question comes from yet another
00:05:23 --> 00:05:26 regular contributor. His name is
00:05:26 --> 00:05:27 Rusty.
00:05:27 --> 00:05:30 Andrew Dunkley: G' day, Fred Watson and Andrew. It's Rusty
00:05:30 --> 00:05:32 in Donnybrook. Now we know that in the realm
00:05:32 --> 00:05:34 of physics, human logic often goes awry.
00:05:35 --> 00:05:38 Here's a try anyway. Thinking about
00:05:38 --> 00:05:40 the Big Bang, initially,
00:05:41 --> 00:05:43 no matter came out of it. It was, was all
00:05:44 --> 00:05:47 energy. And most of this was in the
00:05:47 --> 00:05:50 form of space time. Looking at,
00:05:50 --> 00:05:52 black holes, which is the opposite. This is
00:05:52 --> 00:05:54 matter going into a black hole
00:05:55 --> 00:05:58 after the event horizon. And when it finally
00:05:58 --> 00:06:00 gets to the singularity, it
00:06:00 --> 00:06:03 can't exist as matter. So it must exist
00:06:04 --> 00:06:06 as, matter's equivalent, which
00:06:06 --> 00:06:09 is energy. We also know that space
00:06:09 --> 00:06:12 time can rotate. We've seen, photographs
00:06:12 --> 00:06:14 now of frame dragging. And we know that it
00:06:14 --> 00:06:17 even exists, around the Earth. So
00:06:17 --> 00:06:20 we've got some interesting things there about
00:06:20 --> 00:06:22 space time. It has mass,
00:06:23 --> 00:06:26 it can rotate. So is this
00:06:26 --> 00:06:29 energy dark matter? It must also
00:06:29 --> 00:06:32 have a mass equivalence if it's got energy.
00:06:32 --> 00:06:35 So, if it is dark matter, could that be.
00:06:35 --> 00:06:38 Could it be the rotation of space itself
00:06:39 --> 00:06:42 on a galactic scale influencing the
00:06:42 --> 00:06:44 rotation of spiral galaxies?
00:06:45 --> 00:06:47 That's my question. Pretty difficult day.
00:06:47 --> 00:06:48 Okay, cheers.
00:06:48 --> 00:06:51 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, yeah. Rusty, you love asking
00:06:51 --> 00:06:54 these curveball questions. I know. I, think
00:06:54 --> 00:06:57 you sit there trying to figure out what to
00:06:57 --> 00:06:59 throw at us next. this is an interesting one.
00:06:59 --> 00:07:01 We have talked about the rotation of space
00:07:01 --> 00:07:03 time before or whether or not it does, dark
00:07:03 --> 00:07:05 energy is always coming up. And we spoke
00:07:05 --> 00:07:08 about a new theory on, dark
00:07:08 --> 00:07:11 matter in our last episode. And we keep sort
00:07:11 --> 00:07:13 of cross referencing dark matter and dark
00:07:13 --> 00:07:15 energy. But, yeah, okay, so, does
00:07:16 --> 00:07:17 space time rotate?
00:07:22 --> 00:07:25 The mass of space
00:07:25 --> 00:07:28 time, could that be dark matter?
00:07:29 --> 00:07:32 I think I precede that too much. But anyway,
00:07:33 --> 00:07:34 that was the guts of the question.
00:07:35 --> 00:07:37 Professor Fred Watson: So, the energy
00:07:39 --> 00:07:41 that the universe
00:07:42 --> 00:07:44 contained at first, was photons. It was
00:07:45 --> 00:07:48 electromagnetic energy, and
00:07:50 --> 00:07:53 they then basically collapsed into
00:07:53 --> 00:07:55 matter. So the Big Bang was very efficient at
00:07:55 --> 00:07:58 that process. when things cooled down a bit.
00:08:00 --> 00:08:02 when something crosses the event horizon,
00:08:02 --> 00:08:04 goes into a black hole, it
00:08:04 --> 00:08:07 remains as matter, even though
00:08:07 --> 00:08:09 it's now been squashed into an
00:08:09 --> 00:08:12 infinitesimal point. so
00:08:13 --> 00:08:16 the material
00:08:17 --> 00:08:20 content of a black hole, is
00:08:20 --> 00:08:23 mass. It's matter because it increases its
00:08:23 --> 00:08:25 mass. we know that mass and energy are
00:08:25 --> 00:08:27 related by E equals MC squared. Rusty
00:08:27 --> 00:08:30 certainly knows that. so, I'm
00:08:30 --> 00:08:31 just,
00:08:33 --> 00:08:36 I'm not sure I'm following the
00:08:36 --> 00:08:39 logic there. We do know,
00:08:40 --> 00:08:43 that, we've had
00:08:43 --> 00:08:45 this issue with the asymmetric,
00:08:45 --> 00:08:48 sorry, the unequal rotation of galaxies
00:08:49 --> 00:08:51 clockwise and anti clockwise, that seem to be
00:08:51 --> 00:08:53 more one way than the other. And that has
00:08:53 --> 00:08:55 raised the suggestion that the universe is
00:08:55 --> 00:08:58 rotating. And it turns out if it rotates once
00:08:58 --> 00:09:01 every 500 billion years, then you
00:09:01 --> 00:09:04 can get rid of the Hubble tension. I
00:09:04 --> 00:09:05 think that's the bottom line there.
00:09:06 --> 00:09:09 And so, I mean, you
00:09:09 --> 00:09:12 know, Rusty's points are all well made. I
00:09:12 --> 00:09:15 don't think we get rid of dark matter and
00:09:15 --> 00:09:17 dark energy though, by those considerations.
00:09:18 --> 00:09:21 I think we're still stuck with puzzles that
00:09:21 --> 00:09:22 we don't understand.
00:09:22 --> 00:09:24 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I don't think he was talking about
00:09:24 --> 00:09:26 getting rid of dark matter, but he was
00:09:26 --> 00:09:27 talking about the
00:09:29 --> 00:09:32 mass of space time being dark matter.
00:09:32 --> 00:09:35 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, sorry, I'm using the wrong
00:09:35 --> 00:09:37 words there. I'm using my words.
00:09:37 --> 00:09:38 Andrew Dunkley: that's all right.
00:09:38 --> 00:09:40 Professor Fred Watson: Very loosely, yes, that's right.
00:09:40 --> 00:09:43 But dark matter, is,
00:09:44 --> 00:09:47 you know, it's clumpy.
00:09:47 --> 00:09:50 It's not, something that is
00:09:50 --> 00:09:53 equal throughout the universe, which if it
00:09:53 --> 00:09:56 was space time, it would be. I mean
00:09:56 --> 00:09:59 space time itself doesn't have mass. It's
00:09:59 --> 00:10:00 the fabric within which mass,
00:10:02 --> 00:10:04 within within which it exists.
00:10:05 --> 00:10:07 So I, think
00:10:08 --> 00:10:11 it's an interesting suggestion, as
00:10:11 --> 00:10:13 rusties always, are. But I'm not sure that
00:10:14 --> 00:10:17 works out. Throwing the equation of
00:10:17 --> 00:10:20 state there, that'll do it. Oh yes, Talking
00:10:20 --> 00:10:21 about that last episode.
00:10:21 --> 00:10:24 Andrew Dunkley: Yes. Oh, gosh, here we go. The
00:10:24 --> 00:10:26 headache worthy material, this.
00:10:26 --> 00:10:27 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right.
00:10:27 --> 00:10:29 Andrew Dunkley: when you talk about the universe and space
00:10:29 --> 00:10:32 time, like space time, you said it doesn't
00:10:32 --> 00:10:34 have mass. It's just everything that's in it
00:10:34 --> 00:10:37 is what's mass? Is it strung
00:10:37 --> 00:10:39 out evenly across a,
00:10:40 --> 00:10:43 universal plane or it's not
00:10:43 --> 00:10:44 evenly spread
00:10:45 --> 00:10:47 360 degrees in all directions, is it?
00:10:48 --> 00:10:51 Professor Fred Watson: Well, it more or less is. But
00:10:51 --> 00:10:54 you're right, it
00:10:54 --> 00:10:56 changes from one place to another because
00:10:56 --> 00:10:59 math matter changes the shape of
00:10:59 --> 00:11:02 space time. so if
00:11:02 --> 00:11:04 you've got a lump of matter, then
00:11:05 --> 00:11:07 you're distorting the space around it and
00:11:07 --> 00:11:10 yes, frame dragging. Something, that Rusty
00:11:10 --> 00:11:11 mentioned. Frame dragging is the way a
00:11:11 --> 00:11:14 rotating object drags the space time around
00:11:14 --> 00:11:16 with it. But even if it's not rotating, it's
00:11:16 --> 00:11:18 still deforming the space time around. It's
00:11:18 --> 00:11:21 how gravitational lenses work. And so space
00:11:22 --> 00:11:25 space time is this crinkled
00:11:25 --> 00:11:26 pattern of
00:11:28 --> 00:11:31 irregularity that comes from the matter
00:11:31 --> 00:11:32 within it. And we think
00:11:34 --> 00:11:36 what we call the cosmic web, this
00:11:37 --> 00:11:40 entangled web of almost like a foam
00:11:40 --> 00:11:43 of dark matter that itself has
00:11:43 --> 00:11:45 mass and changes the shape of spacetime.
00:11:45 --> 00:11:48 That's how we think the galaxies formed and
00:11:48 --> 00:11:50 how we think we got the structure that we see
00:11:50 --> 00:11:53 today. but you need mass within
00:11:53 --> 00:11:55 space time in order to get those
00:11:55 --> 00:11:56 phenomena.
00:11:57 --> 00:11:59 Andrew Dunkley: Gotcha. All right, thank you Rusty.
00:12:00 --> 00:12:03 stirring the pot as always. This is
00:12:03 --> 00:12:05 Space Nuts Andrew Dunkley here and
00:12:05 --> 00:12:07 Fred Watson Watson just he's right next to
00:12:07 --> 00:12:07 me.
00:12:09 --> 00:12:12 Now let's take a quick break from the show to
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00:14:51 --> 00:14:53 Now back to space nuts.
00:14:53 --> 00:14:56 Generic: 3, 2, 1.
00:14:56 --> 00:14:57 Professor Fred Watson: Space nuts.
00:14:58 --> 00:15:00 Andrew Dunkley: Our next question comes from Dave.
00:15:00 --> 00:15:03 Dave's in Indiana, which is also the name
00:15:03 --> 00:15:06 of my sister in law's cat. if you fire.
00:15:06 --> 00:15:09 I don't know why I said that. If you fire a
00:15:09 --> 00:15:11 laser into space, would you the emission
00:15:11 --> 00:15:14 impart a force in the opposite direction? If
00:15:14 --> 00:15:17 not, could a broad beam be used on
00:15:17 --> 00:15:19 a space sail to effectively move a
00:15:19 --> 00:15:22 spacecraft? thank you, Dave. we
00:15:22 --> 00:15:24 have talked about this concept before.
00:15:24 --> 00:15:27 They're talking about experiments
00:15:27 --> 00:15:30 of spacecraft using
00:15:31 --> 00:15:33 interstellar sails or whatever you want to
00:15:33 --> 00:15:35 call them, being pushed along by
00:15:35 --> 00:15:38 laser. I don't know if they've actually done
00:15:38 --> 00:15:41 it yet or maybe they've tried it in
00:15:41 --> 00:15:44 small scales. I can't remember. We have come
00:15:44 --> 00:15:44 across this before.
00:15:45 --> 00:15:48 Professor Fred Watson: There was some research that
00:15:48 --> 00:15:50 was published and we talked about it on Space
00:15:50 --> 00:15:53 Nuts probably a couple of years ago now in
00:15:53 --> 00:15:55 fact it might even be longer which
00:15:55 --> 00:15:58 demonstrated that a light sail will
00:15:58 --> 00:16:00 actually provide an acceleration to a
00:16:00 --> 00:16:02 spacecraft. I think this was using sunlight
00:16:02 --> 00:16:04 if I remember rightly. But there's a
00:16:04 --> 00:16:06 spacecraft that was just an
00:16:06 --> 00:16:09 experimental one. They used a light sail.
00:16:09 --> 00:16:11 They could tilt it in different directions
00:16:11 --> 00:16:14 and it basically provided
00:16:14 --> 00:16:16 accelerations exactly what they expected
00:16:17 --> 00:16:19 from the transfer of momentum from the
00:16:19 --> 00:16:22 photons to the sail itself.
00:16:23 --> 00:16:25 so, yes. And the answer is yes. So there is a
00:16:25 --> 00:16:26 whole study,
00:16:28 --> 00:16:29 Dave, looking at this,
00:16:31 --> 00:16:33 the project is called Breakthrough Starshot.
00:16:34 --> 00:16:36 I'm not sure whether it's still running but
00:16:36 --> 00:16:39 the idea was to do a
00:16:39 --> 00:16:41 feasibility study,
00:16:42 --> 00:16:45 funded by a Russian billionaire called Yuri
00:16:45 --> 00:16:48 Milner, under the Breakthrough Foundations,
00:16:49 --> 00:16:52 ah, Aegis. They were basically
00:16:52 --> 00:16:54 doing a feasibility study to see whether
00:16:55 --> 00:16:58 you could use powerful lasers to fire
00:16:58 --> 00:17:01 photons at a light sail and accelerate a
00:17:01 --> 00:17:04 spacecraft to maybe half the speed of
00:17:04 --> 00:17:07 light, maybe a little bit less, but certainly
00:17:07 --> 00:17:09 a significant fraction of the speed of light
00:17:09 --> 00:17:12 by bombarding it with these photons
00:17:12 --> 00:17:14 all the time. to see whether you could get it
00:17:14 --> 00:17:17 to Alpha Centauri, or Proxima Centauri,
00:17:17 --> 00:17:19 the nearest star to our solar system, in a
00:17:19 --> 00:17:21 reasonable time. In other Words, you know,
00:17:22 --> 00:17:24 decade or so, rather than the
00:17:24 --> 00:17:26 60 years it would take using conventional
00:17:26 --> 00:17:29 rockets. So it has been well looked after.
00:17:29 --> 00:17:31 So, your idea is
00:17:32 --> 00:17:35 good and is already, you know, already in
00:17:35 --> 00:17:37 train and in fact has already been
00:17:37 --> 00:17:39 demonstrated by this experiment that was,
00:17:39 --> 00:17:41 carried out in Earth orbit.
00:17:42 --> 00:17:44 Andrew Dunkley: And if you were to fire a laser into space,
00:17:44 --> 00:17:46 there would be no recoil, there'd be no
00:17:46 --> 00:17:48 backwash or whatever you want to call it.
00:17:49 --> 00:17:51 Professor Fred Watson: I think that's correct, yeah. I need to check
00:17:51 --> 00:17:53 that, but I think that is correct, because,
00:17:53 --> 00:17:56 yes, you wouldn't want your blazer firing off
00:17:56 --> 00:17:57 in the opposite direction.
00:17:58 --> 00:18:00 Andrew Dunkley: It's not, it's not like firing a bullet. it
00:18:00 --> 00:18:03 shoots from shooting light. there's no
00:18:03 --> 00:18:05 recoil from a torch or a flashlight.
00:18:05 --> 00:18:08 Professor Fred Watson: Well, but yes, I mean, there might be.
00:18:08 --> 00:18:10 Yeah, I think that is correct. I think that's
00:18:10 --> 00:18:11 correct.
00:18:11 --> 00:18:11 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah.
00:18:11 --> 00:18:13 Professor Fred Watson: You'd never detect it in a torch anyway.
00:18:14 --> 00:18:17 Andrew Dunkley: No, definitely not. I have just done a bit of
00:18:17 --> 00:18:19 a search and I found a website called
00:18:19 --> 00:18:21 planetary.org and this
00:18:21 --> 00:18:24 is an organisation that is working
00:18:24 --> 00:18:27 on light sail technology, through
00:18:27 --> 00:18:30 the Planetary Society. And,
00:18:31 --> 00:18:33 they're doing a light sail programme and they
00:18:33 --> 00:18:36 demonstrated that solar, sailing is a
00:18:36 --> 00:18:39 viable means of propulsion. And for small
00:18:39 --> 00:18:42 satellites, solar sails, use
00:18:42 --> 00:18:44 sunlight instead of rocket fuel for
00:18:44 --> 00:18:46 propulsion. they are one of the few
00:18:46 --> 00:18:48 technologies that could be used for
00:18:48 --> 00:18:50 interstellar travel. Their Light Sail
00:18:50 --> 00:18:53 2 spacecraft was, in
00:18:53 --> 00:18:56 space from June, 2019 to November
00:18:56 --> 00:18:59 2022 and successfully used sunlight,
00:18:59 --> 00:19:02 alone to change its orbit around Earth. So
00:19:02 --> 00:19:04 that's probably what you were thinking of.
00:19:04 --> 00:19:06 Professor Fred Watson: It is, yes, that's right, yeah.
00:19:06 --> 00:19:08 Andrew Dunkley: So that's a website worth
00:19:08 --> 00:19:11 visiting, Dave, if you want to check it out.
00:19:11 --> 00:19:14 Planetary.org but there are
00:19:14 --> 00:19:16 so many other stories about lightsail
00:19:16 --> 00:19:18 technology and lots, of people giving
00:19:18 --> 00:19:21 this very, very serious thought.
00:19:21 --> 00:19:24 So, worth worth chasing up if you want to
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27 find out more about it. And thank you, Dave,
00:19:27 --> 00:19:28 for the question.
00:19:32 --> 00:19:33 Andrew Dunkley: Space nuts.
00:19:33 --> 00:19:36 Andrew Dunkley: Now, final question is not a question at all.
00:19:36 --> 00:19:39 Excep. It's a question that needs to
00:19:39 --> 00:19:42 be answered. Doesn't make sense. But, Judd,
00:19:42 --> 00:19:44 who, is in Brisbane, formerly Sydney,
00:19:45 --> 00:19:48 the traitor. Traitor, says. G' day,
00:19:48 --> 00:19:50 Andrew and Fred Watson. Heidi did a great job
00:19:50 --> 00:19:52 of, co hosting while Andrew was away. It
00:19:52 --> 00:19:54 could take years for her to bring her dad
00:19:54 --> 00:19:57 jokes to Andrew's level, though. Yes, that's
00:19:57 --> 00:19:59 very true. you know, there's no
00:19:59 --> 00:20:02 comparison to how bad I am. I, came
00:20:02 --> 00:20:05 across this zinger online. He says, if
00:20:05 --> 00:20:07 you use it, maybe Fred Watson could explain
00:20:07 --> 00:20:10 why it's funny. that always goes down,
00:20:10 --> 00:20:12 down well with my wife. He says.
00:20:12 --> 00:20:15 All right, here we go. Two spinal. spinal.
00:20:15 --> 00:20:18 Two spiral galaxies walk into a
00:20:18 --> 00:20:20 pub. The first one goes up to the bar and
00:20:20 --> 00:20:23 asks for two drinks, one for him and one for
00:20:23 --> 00:20:25 his friend. The barman looks suspiciously at
00:20:25 --> 00:20:28 the second spiral galaxy and says, I'm sorry,
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30 but I can't serve your friend. He'll have to
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33 go. The first spiral galaxy complains,
00:20:33 --> 00:20:35 why can't you serve him? The barman replies,
00:20:36 --> 00:20:37 he's barred
00:20:38 --> 00:20:41 deafening silence. Why is that,
00:20:41 --> 00:20:41 Fuzzy?
00:20:41 --> 00:20:44 Professor Fred Watson: I'm chuckling away to myself here.
00:20:44 --> 00:20:47 Ho, ho, ho, ho,
00:20:47 --> 00:20:50 ho, ho. So, it's really interesting.
00:20:50 --> 00:20:53 There's three different, three different
00:20:53 --> 00:20:56 uses of the word bar here. Ah,
00:20:57 --> 00:21:00 the bar. The barman's got, and
00:21:00 --> 00:21:03 a bar being something that prevents
00:21:03 --> 00:21:06 you from doing something new Bard. But also,
00:21:06 --> 00:21:09 we talk about spiral galaxies having a bar.
00:21:09 --> 00:21:11 Andrew Dunkley: I kind of figured it was something.
00:21:11 --> 00:21:13 Professor Fred Watson: Like that by that sort of bar. think of a
00:21:13 --> 00:21:15 chocolate bar this time.
00:21:16 --> 00:21:19 spiral galaxies that rather than
00:21:19 --> 00:21:22 just having a central bulge with
00:21:22 --> 00:21:25 spiral arms coming from them, they've got the
00:21:25 --> 00:21:26 central bulge, but they've also got a bar
00:21:26 --> 00:21:29 across. And the spiral arms start with the.
00:21:29 --> 00:21:32 From the ends of the bar. indeed. Our own
00:21:32 --> 00:21:35 galaxy has one which has been observed and
00:21:35 --> 00:21:37 measured by the Gaia spacecraft and many
00:21:37 --> 00:21:40 others. So our galaxy has one. We sort of
00:21:40 --> 00:21:42 look at it sideways from our vantage point,
00:21:42 --> 00:21:44 or obliquely, if I can put it that way.
00:21:46 --> 00:21:49 it's a, you know,
00:21:49 --> 00:21:52 it's a phenomenon that is very common
00:21:52 --> 00:21:54 among galaxies. We, call them barred
00:21:54 --> 00:21:55 spirals.
00:21:55 --> 00:21:56 Andrew Dunkley: There you are.
00:21:56 --> 00:21:59 Professor Fred Watson: They are spirals. So your friends are bad.
00:22:00 --> 00:22:01 Your friend's bad. That's because he's a bad
00:22:01 --> 00:22:04 spiral. Sorry, it
00:22:04 --> 00:22:07 took a long time to get that through. No.
00:22:07 --> 00:22:09 Andrew Dunkley: Well, it certainly required
00:22:09 --> 00:22:11 explanation. I'm sure some people immediately
00:22:11 --> 00:22:14 went, oh, yeah, I get it. but, others like
00:22:14 --> 00:22:16 myself would have gone, I don't. Yeah, I'm
00:22:16 --> 00:22:19 scratching my head. although it's prompted
00:22:19 --> 00:22:21 another dad joke. You ready for this, Judd?
00:22:21 --> 00:22:23 so the Milky Way
00:22:24 --> 00:22:26 can't. Here we go. Is non
00:22:26 --> 00:22:29 alcoholic. Because it's. It's barred.
00:22:30 --> 00:22:32 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, it's bad spiral.
00:22:33 --> 00:22:36 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. Terrible,
00:22:36 --> 00:22:38 horrible joke. thanks, Judd. Oh, he had a
00:22:38 --> 00:22:41 bonus joke. the. The bartender says,
00:22:41 --> 00:22:43 I don't serve anyone. Faster than light,
00:22:44 --> 00:22:46 a neutrino walks into the bar.
00:22:48 --> 00:22:50 Why is that funny?
00:22:50 --> 00:22:53 Professor Fred Watson: So that was when, it's a story.
00:22:53 --> 00:22:55 It's quite an entertaining story, which we
00:22:55 --> 00:22:57 covered. This is going back maybe even a
00:22:57 --> 00:23:00 decade, right? there is A particle detector
00:23:00 --> 00:23:03 at Gran Sasso in Italy, northern
00:23:03 --> 00:23:05 Italy, which detected
00:23:05 --> 00:23:07 neutrinos that were being emitted by the
00:23:07 --> 00:23:09 Large Hadron Collider on the French Swiss
00:23:09 --> 00:23:12 border. Now, I remember neutrinos barely
00:23:12 --> 00:23:13 interact with anything, so they travel
00:23:13 --> 00:23:16 through rock, cheerfully go right through
00:23:16 --> 00:23:18 the, Earth, no problem. But the,
00:23:19 --> 00:23:22 problem was these neutrinos
00:23:23 --> 00:23:25 seemed to arrive at Gran Sasso,
00:23:26 --> 00:23:28 in a time that was less than what it would
00:23:28 --> 00:23:30 take them if they were travelling at the
00:23:30 --> 00:23:32 speed of light, which is about the speed that
00:23:32 --> 00:23:33 they do travel. They travel very close to the
00:23:33 --> 00:23:34 speed of light.
00:23:34 --> 00:23:34 Andrew Dunkley: Right.
00:23:35 --> 00:23:37 Professor Fred Watson: And so, this was,
00:23:38 --> 00:23:41 it really hit the headlines big time. Faster
00:23:41 --> 00:23:43 than light neutrinos. And,
00:23:44 --> 00:23:46 you know, people commented on it. There were
00:23:47 --> 00:23:49 relativist theories, people
00:23:50 --> 00:23:53 digging up what could be going on here. They
00:23:53 --> 00:23:55 were all trying to think of how the theory of
00:23:55 --> 00:23:58 relativity could be modified to accept
00:23:58 --> 00:24:01 this, to make it work. And a few other people
00:24:01 --> 00:24:02 were saying, I bet it goes away. I bet
00:24:02 --> 00:24:04 there's something wrong with the equipment.
00:24:04 --> 00:24:07 About a month after that
00:24:07 --> 00:24:10 experiment had been reported, they
00:24:10 --> 00:24:12 fessed up at Gran Sasso that they had
00:24:12 --> 00:24:14 discovered a faulty connector.
00:24:15 --> 00:24:18 and it was that faulty connector, that
00:24:18 --> 00:24:21 was giving the, mistaken
00:24:21 --> 00:24:22 impression that these neutrinos was
00:24:22 --> 00:24:24 travelling faster than the speed of light.
00:24:24 --> 00:24:26 It's to do with their clocking. And it was
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 so embarrassing that the director is.
00:24:29 --> 00:24:32 He resigned to. Resigned, yeah.
00:24:32 --> 00:24:35 Andrew Dunkley: Wow. I mean, we've, we've talked
00:24:35 --> 00:24:37 about certain gaffes in
00:24:38 --> 00:24:40 science, discoveries, etc in the past, but
00:24:40 --> 00:24:42 that, that's a, that's a big price to pay,
00:24:42 --> 00:24:43 isn't it?
00:24:43 --> 00:24:45 Professor Fred Watson: It is, yeah. Yeah. He was, I think he felt
00:24:45 --> 00:24:47 that, he'd have put Italy on the scientific
00:24:47 --> 00:24:49 map for the wrong reasons because they had a
00:24:49 --> 00:24:50 faulty connector.
00:24:50 --> 00:24:53 But it does remind me of another joke that
00:24:53 --> 00:24:55 was going on round about the same time. This
00:24:55 --> 00:24:57 was back in 2012 when the Higgs boson was
00:24:57 --> 00:25:00 discovered, which I always
00:25:00 --> 00:25:03 liked. and it's very quick. A Higgs
00:25:03 --> 00:25:05 boson walks into a bar
00:25:06 --> 00:25:09 and. No, let me start again.
00:25:09 --> 00:25:12 That's the wrong joke. Wrong
00:25:12 --> 00:25:12 joke.
00:25:12 --> 00:25:13 Andrew Dunkley: That was funny.
00:25:13 --> 00:25:14 Professor Fred Watson: That was funny. That was good, wasn't it? A
00:25:14 --> 00:25:17 Higgs boson, a Higgs boson walks into a
00:25:17 --> 00:25:20 church and the priest says, I'm
00:25:20 --> 00:25:22 sorry, we don't allow Higgs bosons into this
00:25:22 --> 00:25:24 church. And the Higgs boson said, well, how
00:25:24 --> 00:25:25 do you have mass there, then?
00:25:26 --> 00:25:29 Andrew Dunkley: Love it. I have heard that before.
00:25:29 --> 00:25:32 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, I'm sure you have, yeah. Was doing the
00:25:32 --> 00:25:32 round.
00:25:32 --> 00:25:35 Andrew Dunkley: I've got a, somewhat spacey joke because,
00:25:35 --> 00:25:37 GPS operates using global positioning
00:25:37 --> 00:25:40 satellites. I'm going to
00:25:40 --> 00:25:42 buy you one of these, Fred Watson. This is, a
00:25:42 --> 00:25:45 GPS navigation system for seniors.
00:25:46 --> 00:25:47 Professor Fred Watson: Okay.
00:25:47 --> 00:25:50 Andrew Dunkley: It, not only tells you where to
00:25:50 --> 00:25:53 go, is how to get there. It tells
00:25:53 --> 00:25:55 you why you wanted to go there in the first
00:25:55 --> 00:25:55 place.
00:25:58 --> 00:26:00 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's a good one. It probably needs to
00:26:00 --> 00:26:03 tell you where you've come from as well and
00:26:03 --> 00:26:06 how to get back. I'm, not quite
00:26:06 --> 00:26:09 at that stage yet. My GPS gets used a
00:26:09 --> 00:26:11 lot and I always know why I'm going there.
00:26:11 --> 00:26:13 Although sometimes I do wonder.
00:26:13 --> 00:26:15 Andrew Dunkley: Well, it's reached a point where we wonder
00:26:15 --> 00:26:16 how we dealt without.
00:26:16 --> 00:26:18 Professor Fred Watson: It is amazing, isn't it?
00:26:18 --> 00:26:21 Andrew Dunkley: We used to have those big, thick roadmap
00:26:21 --> 00:26:21 books in the car.
00:26:23 --> 00:26:26 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. I used to have them on the passenger
00:26:26 --> 00:26:29 seat with page markers in them so I
00:26:29 --> 00:26:31 could, you know, when I got to that end of.
00:26:31 --> 00:26:33 End of one map, I could turn it over and find
00:26:33 --> 00:26:35 where I was on the next. Terribly dangerous.
00:26:36 --> 00:26:38 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, the way it was. You're not allowed to
00:26:38 --> 00:26:40 touch your phone in a car, but you can read a
00:26:40 --> 00:26:40 book.
00:26:41 --> 00:26:42 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right.
00:26:43 --> 00:26:46 Andrew Dunkley: Yes. Yeah, it's, it's. Yeah.
00:26:46 --> 00:26:48 And, for all you young people, they used. It
00:26:48 --> 00:26:51 was made of paper with coloured maps
00:26:51 --> 00:26:53 inside. It was very, very.
00:26:55 --> 00:26:55 Professor Fred Watson: Some of them anyway.
00:26:55 --> 00:26:56 Andrew Dunkley: And in.
00:26:56 --> 00:26:56 Professor Fred Watson: Great.
00:26:56 --> 00:26:59 Andrew Dunkley: And instead of it following you along on your
00:26:59 --> 00:27:01 phone, you just ran your finger along the red
00:27:01 --> 00:27:04 line. Okay, I gotta turn left there.
00:27:04 --> 00:27:07 Yes, all right, we're done. Fred Watson,
00:27:07 --> 00:27:07 thank you so much.
00:27:08 --> 00:27:11 Professor Fred Watson: It's a pleasure. and we will talk again soon,
00:27:11 --> 00:27:11 I hope.
00:27:11 --> 00:27:13 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, yes. I think I've got one more recording
00:27:13 --> 00:27:15 session before I head off and hand over to
00:27:15 --> 00:27:18 Heidi again for a while. But, I
00:27:18 --> 00:27:20 will be reporting in from my various
00:27:20 --> 00:27:23 destinations around the world. So, we'll,
00:27:23 --> 00:27:24 tell you more about that down the track.
00:27:25 --> 00:27:26 Don't forget to visit us online too, because
00:27:26 --> 00:27:28 we need some more questions. we are
00:27:28 --> 00:27:30 desperately short, as it turns out. Cleaning
00:27:30 --> 00:27:33 out the closet of questions was probably a
00:27:33 --> 00:27:35 bad idea. But anyway, it got done.
00:27:35 --> 00:27:38 SpaceNutspodcast, uh.com Space Nuts
00:27:38 --> 00:27:41 IO is where you can send us your questions on
00:27:41 --> 00:27:44 the AMA link, audio or text. Either
00:27:44 --> 00:27:46 way, tell us who you are and where you're
00:27:46 --> 00:27:49 from. We love to know that. And, Huw in the
00:27:49 --> 00:27:51 studio. well, I think you'll know where this
00:27:51 --> 00:27:53 is going. He couldn't be with us today
00:27:53 --> 00:27:56 because he's barred and
00:27:56 --> 00:27:59 from. From me, Andrew Dunkley.
00:27:59 --> 00:28:01 Thanks for your company. We'll see you on the
00:28:01 --> 00:28:03 next episode. Goodbye.
00:28:04 --> 00:28:06 Generic: You've been listening to the Space Nuts.
00:28:06 --> 00:28:09 Podcast available at
00:28:09 --> 00:28:11 Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
00:28:12 --> 00:28:14 iHeartRadio or your favourite podcast
00:28:14 --> 00:28:16 player. You can also stream on
00:28:16 --> 00:28:19 demand at bitesz.com This has been another
00:28:19 --> 00:28:21 quality podcast production from
00:28:21 --> 00:28:22 bitesz.com
00:28:23 --> 00:28:26 Andrew Dunkley: I love getting a Wait for this one. A barb in
00:28:27 --> 00:28:29 Professor Fred Watson: The good ones. Yes, I like that too. You
00:28:29 --> 00:28:30 should have. Should have thrown that in
00:28:30 --> 00:28:31 somewhere.
00:28:31 --> 00:28:32 Andrew Dunkley: Well, I haven't stopped recording yet, but
00:28:32 --> 00:28:33 I'm going to press stop now.