Exploring the Outer Solar System: New Dwarf Planets, Iapetus Mysteries, and Primordial Black Holes
In this captivating episode of Space Nuts, host Andrew Dunkley and the ever-knowledgeable Professor Fred Watson delve into the latest astronomical discoveries and theories that are reshaping our understanding of the cosmos. From the potential identification of a new dwarf planet to the intriguing features of Saturn's moon Iapetus and the enigmatic nature of primordial black holes, this episode is packed with cosmic insights.
Episode Highlights:
- Potential New Dwarf Planet: Andrew and Fred Watson discuss the discovery of a new Trans-Neptunian object that could challenge the existence of Planet Nine. With its elongated orbit and significant distance from the Sun, this potential dwarf planet offers fresh perspectives on our solar system's architecture.
- The Peculiar Moon Iapetus: The conversation shifts to Iapetus, a unique moon of Saturn known for its stark contrast in surface coloration and mysterious equatorial ridge. Andrew and Fred Watson explore the various theories regarding its formation and the renewed interest it has garnered in recent discussions.
- Primordial Black Holes and Dark Matter: The episode wraps up with a deep dive into the theoretical research surrounding primordial black holes and their potential role in explaining dark matter. Fred shares insights from recent studies suggesting these ancient black holes might be more stable than previously thought, reigniting the debate on their contribution to the universe's missing mass.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
(00:00) Welcome to Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley and Fred Watson Watson
(01:20) Discussion on the potential new dwarf planet in the solar system
(15:00) Exploring the mysteries of Saturn's moon Iapetus
(25:30) Theoretical research on primordial black holes and dark matter
For commercial-free versions of Space Nuts, join us on Patreon, Supercast, Apple Podcasts, or become a supporter here: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Andrew Dunkley: Hi there. Thanks for joining us. Andrew Dunkley here. Ah,
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 this is Space Nuts, where we talk
00:00:05 --> 00:00:08 astronomy and space science. Thanks for
00:00:08 --> 00:00:11 joining us. Coming up on this episode, lots,
00:00:11 --> 00:00:14 to talk about and really interesting stuff for a change.
00:00:14 --> 00:00:16 No, as usual. and this one,
00:00:17 --> 00:00:20 I saw and thought, gee, we got to talk about this because we're
00:00:20 --> 00:00:23 always looking for something in the outer rim of
00:00:23 --> 00:00:26 the solar system and now we may have
00:00:26 --> 00:00:29 found something and it's not planet nine. In fact, it's
00:00:29 --> 00:00:31 possibly a new dwarf planet, which
00:00:31 --> 00:00:33 could mean there is no planet nine.
00:00:34 --> 00:00:37 Interesting. there's a peculiar moon,
00:00:37 --> 00:00:40 orbiting Saturn, known as Iapetus. And
00:00:40 --> 00:00:42 it's starting to get attention again.
00:00:42 --> 00:00:44 We'll tell you why. And
00:00:45 --> 00:00:48 primordial black holes. Yep. And
00:00:48 --> 00:00:51 the fact that they might be today's dark
00:00:51 --> 00:00:53 matter. Is that a matter we should discuss?
00:00:54 --> 00:00:56 Damn right it is. And we'll do m it.
00:00:57 --> 00:00:59 Do it right now on, Space nuts.
00:00:59 --> 00:01:02 Voice Over Guy: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.
00:01:02 --> 00:01:05 10, 9. Ignition
00:01:05 --> 00:01:08 sequence start. Space nuts. 5, 4, 3,
00:01:08 --> 00:01:10 2. 1. 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4,
00:01:11 --> 00:01:14 3, 2, 1. Space nuts. Astronauts
00:01:14 --> 00:01:15 report it feels good.
00:01:15 --> 00:01:18 Andrew Dunkley: And despite his premature announcement,
00:01:19 --> 00:01:21 he officially welcome Professor Fred Watson Walton
00:01:22 --> 00:01:23 at large. Hello.
00:01:23 --> 00:01:26 Professor Fred Watson: Thank you for that. Yes, I do apologise for being there before. I'm,
00:01:26 --> 00:01:29 forgetting that I have to be formally introduced before I,
00:01:29 --> 00:01:30 Andrew Dunkley: More good.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:31 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, yes.
00:01:31 --> 00:01:34 Andrew Dunkley: Before, that's how I used to run my radio show. I didn't care
00:01:34 --> 00:01:37 what happened if some. If someone walked in. They were just part of the
00:01:37 --> 00:01:40 show. I didn't, you know, I
00:01:40 --> 00:01:42 never cared about standing on ceremony or,
00:01:42 --> 00:01:45 or, you know, sticking to the rules of radio.
00:01:46 --> 00:01:49 What rules? I mean, it's just people talking, isn't it? And
00:01:49 --> 00:01:52 playing music and enjoying themselves. I
00:01:52 --> 00:01:55 thought that's how I ran. Even when I
00:01:55 --> 00:01:57 worked for the nc, I was.
00:01:57 --> 00:01:58 Professor Fred Watson: I was like, that's right.
00:01:58 --> 00:02:01 Andrew Dunkley: I've been dropped for it a few times. But eventually
00:02:01 --> 00:02:04 they saw. They saw the light and started going, hang on a
00:02:04 --> 00:02:07 minute. Listening to this bloke. We
00:02:07 --> 00:02:09 might. We might be onto something.
00:02:09 --> 00:02:12 anyway, they eventually brought in an expert to teach us how
00:02:12 --> 00:02:14 to be human beings on the radio.
00:02:15 --> 00:02:16 Professor Fred Watson: Really give me dick.
00:02:18 --> 00:02:21 Andrew Dunkley: And when she, when she talked to me, she said, don't change
00:02:21 --> 00:02:24 a thing. Which I really. A great endorsement
00:02:24 --> 00:02:26 after being told shut up for several years.
00:02:27 --> 00:02:28 Professor Fred Watson: No. Well done. That's good.
00:02:29 --> 00:02:32 Andrew Dunkley: Now, before we get started, how's the weather down in
00:02:32 --> 00:02:35 Sydney? Because you've been copping us spanking with the
00:02:35 --> 00:02:35 rain.
00:02:35 --> 00:02:38 Professor Fred Watson: We did? Yes. one day last week, just
00:02:38 --> 00:02:40 overnight, we had 97 millimetres or
00:02:41 --> 00:02:44 getting on for five. Well four inches, isn't it in
00:02:44 --> 00:02:47 the measure? Yeah, that's right, four inches. that was
00:02:47 --> 00:02:50 just one night and all together we probably had something like
00:02:50 --> 00:02:52 150 of that wet period.
00:02:52 --> 00:02:53 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah.
00:02:53 --> 00:02:55 Professor Fred Watson: So it was very wet, very miserable, very
00:02:55 --> 00:02:58 soggy. fortunately everything seemed to hold up.
00:02:58 --> 00:03:01 Our downstairs granny flat which used to
00:03:01 --> 00:03:04 flood when it rained but we had a lot of work done last year.
00:03:04 --> 00:03:06 That's was in good shape.
00:03:08 --> 00:03:09 Everything seemed to be all right.
00:03:09 --> 00:03:12 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I shouldn't tell you that right now
00:03:12 --> 00:03:15 as we record there's a big
00:03:15 --> 00:03:17 rain band headed your way.
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19 Professor Fred Watson: Yes there is. That's right. We we already.
00:03:20 --> 00:03:23 Andrew Dunkley: It's easing off now. We had rain all day but I'm looking
00:03:23 --> 00:03:23 out now.
00:03:24 --> 00:03:24 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:03:24 --> 00:03:27 Andrew Dunkley: And it stopped raining. This the sky is actually
00:03:27 --> 00:03:29 thinning. It's still quite grey but it's moving
00:03:30 --> 00:03:32 that way which is more due me.
00:03:33 --> 00:03:36 Professor Fred Watson: It is. We're expecting that later this
00:03:36 --> 00:03:39 afternoon. It sort of started off quite bright this morning but it
00:03:39 --> 00:03:41 is definitely looking a bit grayer now.
00:03:41 --> 00:03:43 Andrew Dunkley: So yeah, I, I have some news.
00:03:44 --> 00:03:47 At 2:37am M.
00:03:47 --> 00:03:50 Saturday, oh, our
00:03:50 --> 00:03:51 bedroom door rattled.
00:03:52 --> 00:03:53 Professor Fred Watson: Okay.
00:03:53 --> 00:03:56 Andrew Dunkley: And I, my first thought was that was an earth
00:03:56 --> 00:03:59 tremor. And guess what it was.
00:03:59 --> 00:04:01 It was a five point. Well they keep
00:04:02 --> 00:04:05 varying it but at the time it was a 5.3
00:04:05 --> 00:04:08 earthquake, centred around north of
00:04:08 --> 00:04:11 Ningen which is Ningen's
00:04:11 --> 00:04:13 160 kilometres west of us. And the
00:04:13 --> 00:04:15 earthquake was north of them by about
00:04:15 --> 00:04:18 98Ks. So it was a bit further
00:04:18 --> 00:04:21 than 160 kilometres from us. And
00:04:21 --> 00:04:24 yeah it shook because our door doesn't quite latch
00:04:24 --> 00:04:27 perfectly, it doesn't hold tight so it's always a bit
00:04:27 --> 00:04:30 loose. So when the air conditioning comes on it usually goes thump.
00:04:31 --> 00:04:34 They said did more than thump on Saturday morning I went
00:04:35 --> 00:04:37 and I woke up, went oh, earthquake. And Judy went,
00:04:38 --> 00:04:41 you sure? Really? I said yeah, I reckon it was because
00:04:41 --> 00:04:43 nothing else happened. Didn't feel any vibration.
00:04:43 --> 00:04:46 Professor Fred Watson: Okay, that's interesting. Yeah. You didn't feel it, Just the door
00:04:46 --> 00:04:46 did.
00:04:47 --> 00:04:50 Andrew Dunkley: well we got a great bed. Just very.
00:04:50 --> 00:04:51 Professor Fred Watson: That's quite proof.
00:04:51 --> 00:04:53 Andrew Dunkley: I had a lot for it. But yeah, it worked. We didn't feel the
00:04:53 --> 00:04:56 earthquake but yeah, sure enough next morning I thought
00:04:56 --> 00:04:59 I'd check and Geosciences Australia confirmed
00:04:59 --> 00:05:02 it. So 5.3 which is 1 of the biggest
00:05:02 --> 00:05:03 ever recorded out here.
00:05:05 --> 00:05:07 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right. Yeah it is. So one of my
00:05:07 --> 00:05:10 colleagues at ah, the Australian Astronomical Observatory or
00:05:10 --> 00:05:13 former Australian Astronomical Observatory on the Anglo
00:05:13 --> 00:05:15 Australian Telescope, he is One of the telescope,
00:05:16 --> 00:05:19 operators, Andre Phillips, he
00:05:19 --> 00:05:22 was sitting in the control chair for the
00:05:22 --> 00:05:25 telescope and he felt something as well.
00:05:25 --> 00:05:28 He felt the chair being sort of moved,
00:05:28 --> 00:05:30 as though somebody was shaking it from behind.
00:05:30 --> 00:05:33 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, that's what it feels like. Yeah. Because I was in
00:05:33 --> 00:05:36 Newcastle earthquake and I'd done an overnight shift when it
00:05:36 --> 00:05:37 hit and it was 5.5.
00:05:38 --> 00:05:41 And it felt to me like somebody just got
00:05:41 --> 00:05:44 the end of the bed and was just bouncing,
00:05:44 --> 00:05:47 bouncing it up and down and. Yeah, it was much more violent
00:05:47 --> 00:05:48 than what we experienced.
00:05:48 --> 00:05:51 Professor Fred Watson: It would be. Yeah. yeah, actually, Andre,
00:05:51 --> 00:05:53 interestingly, this same gentleman I was just talking about, he
00:05:53 --> 00:05:56 also runs, a very sensitive seismograph at
00:05:56 --> 00:05:59 home because he's quite interested in seismometry.
00:06:00 --> 00:06:02 so, yes, I think he went home at the end of his night shift,
00:06:02 --> 00:06:05 had a look, and sure enough there was a 5.3 or
00:06:05 --> 00:06:07 5.2 earthquake, from
00:06:07 --> 00:06:08 Lingen.
00:06:08 --> 00:06:11 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, he would have felt more of it in Coonabarabran than
00:06:11 --> 00:06:14 he calculation because,
00:06:14 --> 00:06:17 I looked at the clock immediately and it was 2:37.
00:06:18 --> 00:06:21 And I know that was the exact time because it was an
00:06:21 --> 00:06:24 apple watch. So it was synchronised.
00:06:24 --> 00:06:24 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:06:24 --> 00:06:27 Andrew Dunkley: And I worked out that the vibration took
00:06:27 --> 00:06:28 40 seconds to reach us.
00:06:29 --> 00:06:30 Professor Fred Watson: Okay.
00:06:30 --> 00:06:32 Andrew Dunkley: At approximately 300 kilometres an hour.
00:06:32 --> 00:06:33 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:06:34 --> 00:06:34 Andrew Dunkley: Just round.
00:06:35 --> 00:06:37 Professor Fred Watson: Yes. Yeah, something like that.
00:06:38 --> 00:06:41 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. Anyway, give, Or take, because I
00:06:41 --> 00:06:44 don't. It wasn't exactly 236, but you know
00:06:44 --> 00:06:47 what I'm saying. yeah. So
00:06:47 --> 00:06:49 exciting. Exciting. Haven't been any aftershocks that I'm aware
00:06:49 --> 00:06:52 of. But, there's a lot of tremors out here that you don't ever feel
00:06:52 --> 00:06:55 or notice because they're just so small. But,
00:06:55 --> 00:06:58 nothing that big. We better get
00:06:58 --> 00:06:59 on with it, Fred Watson.
00:06:59 --> 00:07:02 And our first story,
00:07:02 --> 00:07:05 from the cosmos or closer to home, is a possible
00:07:05 --> 00:07:08 new dwarf planet, in the extremities
00:07:08 --> 00:07:11 of our solar system. This is, really
00:07:11 --> 00:07:13 exciting, if it holds true and
00:07:13 --> 00:07:16 it's sort of stacking up that way.
00:07:16 --> 00:07:18 Professor Fred Watson: I think so, yes. this is
00:07:19 --> 00:07:20 relatively straightforward,
00:07:21 --> 00:07:24 astrometry, which is the measurement of
00:07:25 --> 00:07:28 celestial objects in space, their actual,
00:07:28 --> 00:07:31 direction. and it,
00:07:31 --> 00:07:34 comes from, information
00:07:34 --> 00:07:37 collected over quite a long period of time,
00:07:38 --> 00:07:40 with, telescopes around the world.
00:07:41 --> 00:07:44 so a lot of this discovery is due to archival data
00:07:45 --> 00:07:48 where you can look at images of particular bits of the sky
00:07:48 --> 00:07:50 and accurately work out the position of objects in
00:07:50 --> 00:07:53 those images. it's actually what you do,
00:07:53 --> 00:07:56 Andrew. Just as an aside here, when a near Earth
00:07:56 --> 00:07:59 asteroid is detected
00:08:00 --> 00:08:02 the first thing astronomers do is look back
00:08:02 --> 00:08:04 through archival, data. To see if there are any,
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 images, photographic images or electronically
00:08:08 --> 00:08:11 detected images that will show it. Because the longer
00:08:11 --> 00:08:14 you can observe something for, the more accurately you can
00:08:14 --> 00:08:17 deduce its orbit. And that is true with
00:08:17 --> 00:08:19 this object, which turns out to be a
00:08:19 --> 00:08:22 tno, a Trans Neptunian object.
00:08:23 --> 00:08:24 it's been, studied by,
00:08:25 --> 00:08:28 astrophysicists at the Institute for Advanced Study in
00:08:28 --> 00:08:30 Princeton. Very, very distinguished,
00:08:31 --> 00:08:33 institution. and what they found,
00:08:34 --> 00:08:36 is an object with the very
00:08:36 --> 00:08:38 unmemorable name of 2017 of
00:08:39 --> 00:08:41 201. it is
00:08:41 --> 00:08:44 an. An object. A trans Neptunian object
00:08:44 --> 00:08:47 in a very, very elongated orbit.
00:08:48 --> 00:08:51 its nearest point to
00:08:51 --> 00:08:54 the solar system is. I think
00:08:54 --> 00:08:56 it's 42,
00:08:57 --> 00:08:59 thereabouts astronomical unit. Is that right?
00:08:59 --> 00:09:01 No. 44,
00:09:01 --> 00:09:04 44.5. That's its closest point to the
00:09:04 --> 00:09:07 Sun. What we call the perihelion. 44.5
00:09:08 --> 00:09:10 times that of the Earth's orbit. In other words,
00:09:10 --> 00:09:12 44.5 astronomical UN.
00:09:13 --> 00:09:16 But the staggering thing is that it's
00:09:16 --> 00:09:19 aphelion. the furthest point,
00:09:20 --> 00:09:23 is, Now let me find
00:09:23 --> 00:09:25 the number. It's much, much higher. You might have
00:09:25 --> 00:09:26 32.
00:09:29 --> 00:09:31 I think it's more than that. where are
00:09:31 --> 00:09:34 we? I think it's in the thousands. it's,
00:09:35 --> 00:09:38 very, very distant. So
00:09:38 --> 00:09:41 when it was found. I beg your
00:09:41 --> 00:09:44 par. Yeah, when it was found, it was about 90
00:09:45 --> 00:09:47 astronomical units away.
00:09:48 --> 00:09:50 and there are enough observations that it's
00:09:51 --> 00:09:53 sort of continuing its orbit.
00:09:53 --> 00:09:56 1600. Yeah, 1600
00:09:56 --> 00:09:59 astronomical units. That's its
00:09:59 --> 00:10:01 furthest. And, that means that,
00:10:02 --> 00:10:05 it's only going to be visible to Earth. based
00:10:05 --> 00:10:08 telescopes for a few percent of its orbit. When
00:10:08 --> 00:10:11 it's, when it's at its nearest, point
00:10:11 --> 00:10:12 to Earth.
00:10:12 --> 00:10:15 Andrew Dunkley: They're actually saying, Fred Watson, that it's going far
00:10:15 --> 00:10:18 enough out to be entering the Oort
00:10:18 --> 00:10:18 cloud.
00:10:18 --> 00:10:21 Professor Fred Watson: That's right. Part of the inner Oort cloud, which makes it a very
00:10:21 --> 00:10:24 interesting object indeed with
00:10:24 --> 00:10:27 an orbital period, if I remember rightly, of. What is it,
00:10:27 --> 00:10:30 25 light years or something ridiculous like
00:10:30 --> 00:10:30 that.
00:10:30 --> 00:10:32 Andrew Dunkley: 25 years to complete an orbit.
00:10:33 --> 00:10:36 Professor Fred Watson: Sorry, 25 years, not 25 light years.
00:10:36 --> 00:10:39 Yeah. So it's a very, very distant object.
00:10:39 --> 00:10:41 In fact, it's probably, Apart from
00:10:41 --> 00:10:44 comets, it's probably one of the most distant
00:10:44 --> 00:10:46 objects ever discovered.
00:10:47 --> 00:10:50 because at its nearest, it's roughly the same
00:10:50 --> 00:10:53 distance from the sun as Pluto is. But it's furthest,
00:10:53 --> 00:10:56 as you've said. It's skimming the inner edge of the
00:10:56 --> 00:10:58 Oort Cloud, that cloud of, icy debris
00:10:58 --> 00:11:01 that we recognise as being the source of comets,
00:11:01 --> 00:11:04 comets that drifting towards the inner solar system.
00:11:05 --> 00:11:08 So a, really, remarkable,
00:11:08 --> 00:11:11 set of observations. It's been observed 19 times, so
00:11:11 --> 00:11:14 it's got a very high certainty in its
00:11:14 --> 00:11:17 orbit. but the quirky part
00:11:17 --> 00:11:20 of this, which you've already alluded to, is
00:11:20 --> 00:11:23 that, when the team, the
00:11:23 --> 00:11:26 research team who've done this work, actually
00:11:26 --> 00:11:29 looked at the simulations of,
00:11:29 --> 00:11:31 the way the orbit of 2017, of
00:11:31 --> 00:11:34 201, behaves,
00:11:34 --> 00:11:37 they found that, its
00:11:37 --> 00:11:40 orbit is only stable and long
00:11:40 --> 00:11:43 term without Planet Nine.
00:11:44 --> 00:11:46 so if you have Planet Nine in the
00:11:46 --> 00:11:49 equation, then it gets thrown out within
00:11:49 --> 00:11:52 100 million years, which means that's a short time
00:11:52 --> 00:11:55 in astronomical terms. So,
00:11:55 --> 00:11:57 yeah, it's it's that if.
00:11:57 --> 00:11:59 Andrew Dunkley: Its existence is confirmed,
00:12:00 --> 00:12:03 then Planet nine can't exist.
00:12:03 --> 00:12:04 That's what they're saying.
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07 Professor Fred Watson: That is what they are saying, yes. That it's. This is,
00:12:07 --> 00:12:10 a quote from the media. It's one of the
00:12:10 --> 00:12:13 strongest pieces of evidence yet against the
00:12:13 --> 00:12:14 existence of Planet Nine.
00:12:16 --> 00:12:19 yeah, that's right. it, it, it does
00:12:19 --> 00:12:22 suggests that there are more objects of the same
00:12:22 --> 00:12:25 kind. We haven't found them yet. but yes, the
00:12:25 --> 00:12:27 figure I was looking for earlier, it spends
00:12:28 --> 00:12:30 only 1% of its time in orbit, near
00:12:30 --> 00:12:33 enough to be able to be detected from Earth
00:12:34 --> 00:12:37 because it's such a. It's a relatively small
00:12:37 --> 00:12:40 object thought to be around 700 kilometres, which probably
00:12:40 --> 00:12:42 makes it a dwarf planet rather than a large
00:12:43 --> 00:12:45 asteroid. and, the, that's
00:12:46 --> 00:12:48 imagining that something that size can
00:12:48 --> 00:12:51 only be visible for 1% of its orbital
00:12:51 --> 00:12:54 period because the rest just takes it too far away.
00:12:54 --> 00:12:57 It gives you a good idea of just how elongated its
00:12:57 --> 00:12:58 orbit is.
00:12:58 --> 00:13:01 Andrew Dunkley: Gee, we're lucky to have spotted it given the timeframe.
00:13:01 --> 00:13:04 Professor Fred Watson: Well, that's right, yes. because it'll drift away and will
00:13:04 --> 00:13:06 very soon be, invisible to our
00:13:07 --> 00:13:07 planet.
00:13:07 --> 00:13:10 Andrew Dunkley: And it's a lot of weight to a theory we talked about
00:13:10 --> 00:13:13 some time ago from one
00:13:13 --> 00:13:16 scientist who said there is no Planet Nine.
00:13:16 --> 00:13:19 I think there's a whole bunch of stuff out there
00:13:19 --> 00:13:22 that's causing the same effect. And this
00:13:22 --> 00:13:24 sounds like one of those things.
00:13:24 --> 00:13:27 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right. And it's similar. There was
00:13:27 --> 00:13:30 a similar argument around the same time by another group of
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33 scientists, one of whom I actually spoke to in
00:13:33 --> 00:13:35 Canada a couple of years ago, who said
00:13:35 --> 00:13:38 effectively that the evidence for Planet Nine is
00:13:38 --> 00:13:41 based on. I don't know it's probably a dozen or
00:13:41 --> 00:13:44 so of these icy asteroids all
00:13:44 --> 00:13:47 of whose elongated orbits sort of line up
00:13:47 --> 00:13:50 in the same way. And the suggestion
00:13:50 --> 00:13:53 that was being made by these other scientists is that
00:13:53 --> 00:13:56 actually it's not so much
00:13:56 --> 00:13:59 that it's a selection effect. We just haven't found all the other
00:13:59 --> 00:14:02 ones that aren't aligned in the same way. that
00:14:02 --> 00:14:04 would contradict the idea of Planet nine.
00:14:05 --> 00:14:08 So yes, this object might be the poster child
00:14:08 --> 00:14:11 of the anti Planet nine lobby.
00:14:11 --> 00:14:14 but it does seem to suggest that it does
00:14:14 --> 00:14:16 not Planet nine does not exist. And just
00:14:16 --> 00:14:19 to underline what
00:14:19 --> 00:14:22 we're saying earlier, it has actually been officially
00:14:22 --> 00:14:25 confirmed as an asteroid
00:14:25 --> 00:14:28 by the International Astronomical Union. So it
00:14:28 --> 00:14:31 will no doubt get a name because once it's confirmed
00:14:31 --> 00:14:34 by the IAU then you can give it a name.
00:14:34 --> 00:14:36 Andrew Dunkley: Asteroid or dwarf planet.
00:14:38 --> 00:14:41 Professor Fred Watson: I mean a, ah, name like you know, Pluto
00:14:41 --> 00:14:44 or Makemake or one of
00:14:44 --> 00:14:44 those names.
00:14:45 --> 00:14:46 Andrew Dunkley: But we're calling it a dwarf planet.
00:14:46 --> 00:14:49 Professor Fred Watson: That's, that's right, that's right, yeah. At 700
00:14:49 --> 00:14:52 kilometres. I don't think the IAU makes a
00:14:52 --> 00:14:54 distinction when they, when they actually
00:14:55 --> 00:14:58 confirm its orbit. They don't say anything about its
00:14:58 --> 00:15:00 size because that's
00:15:00 --> 00:15:03 dependent on, but that, that depends on measurements that are a
00:15:03 --> 00:15:06 lot more difficult to do. But once its orbit's been confirmed
00:15:06 --> 00:15:09 then it becomes an official object which could be
00:15:09 --> 00:15:11 either a dwarf planet or an asteroid.
00:15:11 --> 00:15:14 Andrew Dunkley: Okay, all right, so the jury might still be out
00:15:14 --> 00:15:17 for a bit but yes, it's there and it
00:15:17 --> 00:15:19 looks like that's put the kibosh on
00:15:19 --> 00:15:22 Planet Nine. More to come on
00:15:22 --> 00:15:25 that one I'm sure. Yes. Now
00:15:25 --> 00:15:27 if you'd like to read all about it you can do
00:15:27 --> 00:15:29 that@sciencealert.com
00:15:30 --> 00:15:32 this is space Nuts, Andrew Dunkley here with
00:15:32 --> 00:15:34 Professor Fred Watson Watson.
00:15:35 --> 00:15:38 Now let's take a quick break from the show to tell you
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00:18:13 --> 00:18:15 all the details in our show notes.
00:18:16 --> 00:18:18 Now back to Space Nuts.
00:18:20 --> 00:18:23 Space Nuts. Let's move on to our, next story.
00:18:23 --> 00:18:26 Fred Watson, I find this one fascinating for one
00:18:26 --> 00:18:29 reason. This is going to sound strange. I've
00:18:29 --> 00:18:30 never heard of this place.
00:18:31 --> 00:18:33 Professor Fred Watson: Oh really? I think I heard of it.
00:18:33 --> 00:18:35 Andrew Dunkley: it's a moon of Saturn known as
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38 Iapetus now. And I say I've never
00:18:38 --> 00:18:41 heard of it. When I saw the picture I went, oh, yeah, I know I've
00:18:41 --> 00:18:43 seen that picture before. Yes,
00:18:44 --> 00:18:47 because it's unique. That's why,
00:18:47 --> 00:18:49 this moon is so very interesting.
00:18:50 --> 00:18:53 Because questions are still being asked as to how it looks
00:18:53 --> 00:18:56 the way it does. It's a strange place and
00:18:56 --> 00:18:59 it's getting, a fair bit of attention in
00:18:59 --> 00:19:00 social media at the moment,
00:19:02 --> 00:19:04 amongst other things. But, yes, it's back in the news.
00:19:04 --> 00:19:07 Professor Fred Watson: It is back in the news. I think it is really, as you say, I think
00:19:07 --> 00:19:10 it really is social media that stirred this up.
00:19:11 --> 00:19:13 we. So, you know, until 2017,
00:19:13 --> 00:19:16 when the spacecraft plunged into the
00:19:16 --> 00:19:18 atmosphere of Saturn,
00:19:19 --> 00:19:20 we were absolutely,
00:19:21 --> 00:19:24 swamped by marvellous photographs of
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27 the moons of Saturn from the Cassini
00:19:27 --> 00:19:29 spacecraft. told us more about the moons of Saturn than we
00:19:29 --> 00:19:32 could ever have guessed that we'd learn.
00:19:33 --> 00:19:35 and I think, So Iapetus was
00:19:36 --> 00:19:38 certainly very much in the headlines then because it is such a
00:19:38 --> 00:19:41 peculiar world. but it sort of.
00:19:41 --> 00:19:44 Because so many of the questions don't really have proper
00:19:44 --> 00:19:47 answers, that's allowed
00:19:47 --> 00:19:50 it to sort of fade from, from the
00:19:50 --> 00:19:52 attention of planetary scientists. But
00:19:53 --> 00:19:55 it's been spotted by, I mean
00:19:55 --> 00:19:58 spotted in the media by social, Social
00:19:58 --> 00:20:01 media people who have really raised it
00:20:01 --> 00:20:04 once again, you know, as a place of
00:20:04 --> 00:20:07 great interest. And maybe that will encourage some of
00:20:07 --> 00:20:10 the planetary, scientists who've certainly had an interest
00:20:10 --> 00:20:13 in Iapetus, to go back to some of the
00:20:13 --> 00:20:15 Cassini data, maybe using, you know, more
00:20:15 --> 00:20:18 modern AI methods to analyse it and
00:20:18 --> 00:20:21 actually check out what is going on there.
00:20:22 --> 00:20:25 so it's the first thing you'd find
00:20:25 --> 00:20:28 out about Yapetus. And it
00:20:28 --> 00:20:31 was when it was discovered back in
00:20:31 --> 00:20:34 the 17th century, Giovanni
00:20:34 --> 00:20:36 Cassini, that great, observer who
00:20:36 --> 00:20:39 discovered the Cassini Division since the name,
00:20:41 --> 00:20:44 made the discovery that this, this
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46 little world orbiting Saturn,
00:20:47 --> 00:20:49 is peculiar because one side of it
00:20:49 --> 00:20:52 was very much darker than the other. I remember
00:20:52 --> 00:20:55 actually at the start of my career, back in the,
00:20:56 --> 00:20:58 early 1970s when I was working at the Nautical
00:20:58 --> 00:21:01 Almanack Office of the Royal Greenwich Observatory with one
00:21:01 --> 00:21:04 of my colleagues there, Andy Sinclair was a specialist on
00:21:04 --> 00:21:07 Iapetus and he kept telling me it was a very peculiar
00:21:07 --> 00:21:10 world. but it was only when Cassini flew
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13 by a few decades later that we realised just how peculiar
00:21:13 --> 00:21:16 it is. So it is covered in
00:21:16 --> 00:21:19 craters, but it's got
00:21:19 --> 00:21:21 this dark side which just looks as though
00:21:21 --> 00:21:24 it's been spattered with soot. Looks as though,
00:21:24 --> 00:21:27 you know, somebody's put a pile of soot out there
00:21:28 --> 00:21:29 and Iapetus, has run into it.
00:21:31 --> 00:21:33 and you've. So you've got this very dark face to it,
00:21:34 --> 00:21:36 contrasting with a very highly reflective
00:21:36 --> 00:21:39 surface. now
00:21:39 --> 00:21:42 that's peculiar in itself because
00:21:42 --> 00:21:45 it's only on one side and that's the forward facing
00:21:45 --> 00:21:47 side. Iapetus goes around Saturn
00:21:47 --> 00:21:50 tidally locked, so that it always keeps the same face
00:21:50 --> 00:21:53 to Saturn. That means there's always a forward side and
00:21:53 --> 00:21:56 a backward side. This stuff's on the forward side.
00:21:56 --> 00:21:59 If I'm actually remembering from my, talks
00:21:59 --> 00:22:02 on Cassini, ah, back in the day, I haven't done one of
00:22:02 --> 00:22:04 those for nearly a decade. But anyway,
00:22:05 --> 00:22:08 that's the one peculiar thing about it, but
00:22:08 --> 00:22:11 the other one is even weirder. And this is
00:22:11 --> 00:22:14 this equatorial ridge, a ridge that goes
00:22:14 --> 00:22:16 all the way around it. It's something like 10
00:22:16 --> 00:22:19 kilometres, or thereabouts.
00:22:19 --> 00:22:22 It's a line of mountains, effectively, but
00:22:22 --> 00:22:25 it's right along the equator
00:22:25 --> 00:22:26 of Iapetus.
00:22:27 --> 00:22:29 Andrew Dunkley: It reminds me of a walnut.
00:22:30 --> 00:22:33 Professor Fred Watson: It is. That's right. I used to think it looked like a walnut.
00:22:33 --> 00:22:35 Exactly that. and so,
00:22:36 --> 00:22:38 I mean, there's various theories as to how it got
00:22:38 --> 00:22:41 there. And the one that I thought was the most
00:22:41 --> 00:22:44 common one, was
00:22:44 --> 00:22:47 that, it was caused by the contraction of
00:22:47 --> 00:22:49 the crust of Iapetus.
00:22:49 --> 00:22:50 Andrew Dunkley: That makes sense.
00:22:50 --> 00:22:51 Professor Fred Watson: the, you know,
00:22:53 --> 00:22:55 Iapetus cooled after its creation.
00:22:55 --> 00:22:58 it's rotating on its axis. the
00:22:58 --> 00:23:01 crust contracts until you get a
00:23:01 --> 00:23:04 bulge which naturally forms around the
00:23:04 --> 00:23:07 equator of rotation, right angles to the axis
00:23:07 --> 00:23:09 of rotation. But, I think other
00:23:09 --> 00:23:12 hypotheses have, have
00:23:12 --> 00:23:15 been put forward. One is
00:23:15 --> 00:23:18 that perhaps there was a ring system
00:23:18 --> 00:23:21 around Iapetus that actually
00:23:21 --> 00:23:23 collapsed and fell onto the surface and
00:23:23 --> 00:23:26 generated the ring of mountains.
00:23:26 --> 00:23:29 another one is possibly icy material
00:23:29 --> 00:23:32 coming out from beneath the surface of
00:23:32 --> 00:23:34 Iapetus. We know that, many of the
00:23:34 --> 00:23:37 moons of the, of those outer planets,
00:23:38 --> 00:23:41 got ice or perhaps icy
00:23:41 --> 00:23:44 slush underneath the surface.
00:23:44 --> 00:23:47 because of, the fact that they're what we call ice
00:23:47 --> 00:23:50 worlds with a, with a central rocky core, a,
00:23:50 --> 00:23:53 liquid ocean above it, which may be quite
00:23:53 --> 00:23:56 slushy. and then a crust of solid ice on top of
00:23:56 --> 00:23:59 that. That could be the construction. Once again, if you've
00:23:59 --> 00:24:02 got stuff coming up from beneath the surface and the object
00:24:02 --> 00:24:05 is spinning fast enough, then you will get,
00:24:05 --> 00:24:07 perhaps a ring of mountains like we
00:24:07 --> 00:24:09 see on the apertus,
00:24:10 --> 00:24:13 none of which come from the original idea, which was
00:24:13 --> 00:24:16 contraction. So I'm very interested
00:24:16 --> 00:24:19 to know where the scientific, you know, the scientific,
00:24:20 --> 00:24:23 consensus is going on this little world. And, it's
00:24:23 --> 00:24:26 great that it's, it's cropped up again, it's welled up again
00:24:26 --> 00:24:27 into the public consciousness.
00:24:28 --> 00:24:31 Andrew Dunkley: It has, yeah. Another theory I read was just a
00:24:31 --> 00:24:32 high spin rate at some stage.
00:24:32 --> 00:24:33 Professor Fred Watson: Yes.
00:24:33 --> 00:24:36 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, that would Cause a bulge rather
00:24:36 --> 00:24:38 than a mountain range. I would, I would expect that.
00:24:39 --> 00:24:42 Professor Fred Watson: Well you'd normally that causes a
00:24:42 --> 00:24:45 planet to flatten slightly so that it's
00:24:46 --> 00:24:48 it's. Yes it's a bulge. It's the ah, Earth's
00:24:48 --> 00:24:51 shape is that ah, what we call an oblate spheroid.
00:24:52 --> 00:24:55 Saturn itself actually is the most extreme example in the
00:24:55 --> 00:24:57 solar system because it's the
00:24:57 --> 00:25:00 diameter between the poles is
00:25:00 --> 00:25:02 significantly less than the diameter across the equator.
00:25:03 --> 00:25:06 and it's this kind of oval shape in cross
00:25:06 --> 00:25:09 section. so that's what you'd
00:25:09 --> 00:25:12 expect from something rotating quickly not as
00:25:12 --> 00:25:14 a well defined ridge of
00:25:14 --> 00:25:17 mountains like we see on Iapetus.
00:25:17 --> 00:25:19 Quite an amazing world.
00:25:19 --> 00:25:22 Andrew Dunkley: Another weird factor I suppose is its
00:25:22 --> 00:25:24 proximity to Saturn. It's actually a long way away.
00:25:25 --> 00:25:27 Professor Fred Watson: Very far. Yes, that's right. So what is it?
00:25:27 --> 00:25:30 3.2 million millimetres or
00:25:30 --> 00:25:33 thereabouts? It's a long, long way,
00:25:33 --> 00:25:35 3.22 million kilometres from Saturn.
00:25:38 --> 00:25:41 Andrew Dunkley: Could the dark face be some sort of reaction with
00:25:41 --> 00:25:43 Saturn radiation or something like that?
00:25:43 --> 00:25:46 Professor Fred Watson: It's the thinking back in the
00:25:46 --> 00:25:48 Cassini era and I suspect it's probably similar
00:25:49 --> 00:25:51 is that it consists of organic chemicals
00:25:52 --> 00:25:55 that form this kind of soot. I think
00:25:55 --> 00:25:58 solens might have been in invoked
00:25:58 --> 00:26:01 as well. These are particular organic chemicals
00:26:01 --> 00:26:04 that we know coat a lot of the outer
00:26:04 --> 00:26:07 worlds because they're generated by I think the
00:26:07 --> 00:26:09 impact of cosmic rays on material.
00:26:10 --> 00:26:13 but it's the peculiar thing is that
00:26:13 --> 00:26:16 it's ah, only on one side. It looks as though it's just
00:26:16 --> 00:26:19 kind of run into something that's splattered all over the front of
00:26:19 --> 00:26:19 it.
00:26:19 --> 00:26:21 Andrew Dunkley: It's got that impression. Yeah. Somebody spilled the paint.
00:26:23 --> 00:26:24 Professor Fred Watson: Just what it looks like. That's why.
00:26:24 --> 00:26:27 Andrew Dunkley: Really odd. Yeah. If you'd like to take a look at it. Yapetis
00:26:28 --> 00:26:31 is all over the Internet, lots of social media. But there's a great
00:26:31 --> 00:26:34 article@dailygalaxy.com worth
00:26:34 --> 00:26:37 reading on Yapetis. It starts with an I. It's
00:26:37 --> 00:26:40 spelled I A P E T U S
00:26:40 --> 00:26:43 Yapetus. This is Space Nuts with Andrew
00:26:43 --> 00:26:44 Dunkley and Fred Watson Watson.
00:26:47 --> 00:26:49 Roger, you're last Nuts.
00:26:50 --> 00:26:53 Our final story today Fred Watson ah,
00:26:53 --> 00:26:55 takes us to the very rare
00:26:56 --> 00:26:58 area of black hole discussion.
00:26:59 --> 00:27:02 we get so many questions on this. I mean
00:27:02 --> 00:27:05 it's, it's unbelievable. In fact I think there was
00:27:05 --> 00:27:07 a question popping up about black holes
00:27:08 --> 00:27:11 in our next episode as a matter of fact. But and,
00:27:11 --> 00:27:14 and I think the reason is quite simple. People
00:27:14 --> 00:27:16 just want to understand Them and
00:27:16 --> 00:27:18 there's so much we don't know.
00:27:20 --> 00:27:23 this particular story focuses on
00:27:23 --> 00:27:26 primordial black holes and the possibility that
00:27:26 --> 00:27:29 they may well be responsible for today's
00:27:29 --> 00:27:31 dark matter. Please
00:27:31 --> 00:27:32 explain.
00:27:34 --> 00:27:37 Professor Fred Watson: Well, yeah, this is a piece of theoretical
00:27:37 --> 00:27:40 research which is good
00:27:40 --> 00:27:42 because you need it. it's ah,
00:27:43 --> 00:27:45 this is research by Japanese scientists
00:27:46 --> 00:27:48 in Tokyo and elsewhere. and
00:27:49 --> 00:27:52 what you have got here is
00:27:52 --> 00:27:54 people who are ah, looking
00:27:55 --> 00:27:58 sort of almost with new eyes if I can put it that way, at
00:27:58 --> 00:28:00 the dark matter problem because
00:28:01 --> 00:28:04 dark matter is a big problem. We've got this stuff
00:28:04 --> 00:28:07 that seems to have a gravitational hold on galaxies
00:28:07 --> 00:28:10 so that they don't fly ap. and a ah,
00:28:10 --> 00:28:13 gravitational hold on galaxy clusters so
00:28:13 --> 00:28:15 they don't fly apart as well. and yet we can't
00:28:15 --> 00:28:18 detect it. We cannot detect it in any way
00:28:18 --> 00:28:21 other than by its gravitational pull.
00:28:21 --> 00:28:23 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, we've never captured any of it or
00:28:24 --> 00:28:25 anything like that.
00:28:25 --> 00:28:28 Professor Fred Watson: No, that's right. So this, the, the you know,
00:28:28 --> 00:28:30 what, what, what have we got to go on?
00:28:31 --> 00:28:34 Not very much, ah, in terms of
00:28:35 --> 00:28:38 our understanding. however
00:28:39 --> 00:28:42 there was quite early on in the black, in
00:28:42 --> 00:28:44 the dark matter story, a number
00:28:44 --> 00:28:47 of experiments carried out on on
00:28:47 --> 00:28:50 big telescopes. One of which was actually here
00:28:50 --> 00:28:53 in Australia a very historic telescope
00:28:53 --> 00:28:56 called the 50 inch at Matt Strongloe, previously
00:28:56 --> 00:28:59 known as the Great Melbourne Telescope because it's very old but
00:28:59 --> 00:29:02 it had been modernised with new equipment.
00:29:02 --> 00:29:05 And they did an experiment which was called macho.
00:29:05 --> 00:29:08 And it was designed to look
00:29:08 --> 00:29:11 for the gravitational lensing effect
00:29:11 --> 00:29:14 of large objects in
00:29:14 --> 00:29:17 the, in the universe, basically in the
00:29:17 --> 00:29:20 vicinity of our galaxy. And by large objects I mean things
00:29:20 --> 00:29:23 that aren't subatomic particles. So I mean
00:29:23 --> 00:29:25 things like orphaned planets,
00:29:26 --> 00:29:29 dead stars or black holes.
00:29:29 --> 00:29:32 MACHO was actually an acronym for Massive Compact Halo
00:29:32 --> 00:29:35 Objects. Now they didn't
00:29:35 --> 00:29:38 see as many of these
00:29:38 --> 00:29:40 gravitational lensing phenomena,
00:29:42 --> 00:29:45 in other words the space around one of these objects being bent
00:29:45 --> 00:29:48 so it magnifies an object behind it. They didn't see
00:29:48 --> 00:29:51 any in numbers that were sufficient to
00:29:51 --> 00:29:53 make machos the
00:29:54 --> 00:29:57 missing dark matter. And so
00:29:57 --> 00:30:00 that was in the 90s that
00:30:00 --> 00:30:03 really ruled out things like black holes
00:30:03 --> 00:30:06 as being the culprits for dark matter.
00:30:06 --> 00:30:09 And so that's when we were you know, our attention
00:30:09 --> 00:30:12 was shifted to the idea that dark matter is
00:30:12 --> 00:30:15 actually some species of subatomic particles, perhaps
00:30:15 --> 00:30:18 many species, but ones that don't interact in any way
00:30:18 --> 00:30:20 with normal matter. And that's where things remain today.
00:30:21 --> 00:30:24 So it's interesting to find a paper which kind
00:30:24 --> 00:30:26 of goes back to an older idea that
00:30:27 --> 00:30:29 maybe black holes actually do
00:30:29 --> 00:30:32 contribute to the dark matter. and the
00:30:32 --> 00:30:35 reason why I think this paper has been published. Is that there
00:30:35 --> 00:30:38 is a slightly new twist to it. Because
00:30:38 --> 00:30:40 these are, The
00:30:40 --> 00:30:43 postulate is that these are primordial black holes.
00:30:43 --> 00:30:46 Black holes which were created at the same
00:30:46 --> 00:30:49 time as the universe was. In other words, during
00:30:49 --> 00:30:51 or immediately after the Big Bang.
00:30:52 --> 00:30:54 so that you, you basically,
00:30:56 --> 00:30:59 find these objects potentially. We,
00:30:59 --> 00:31:02 we've never observed a primordial black hole. People just kind
00:31:02 --> 00:31:04 of guess that they are there. And we do
00:31:05 --> 00:31:08 see black holes that, that, that
00:31:08 --> 00:31:11 maybe fall within the mass range of a primordial
00:31:11 --> 00:31:14 black hole. But, we don't actually know
00:31:14 --> 00:31:16 that they exist. But,
00:31:17 --> 00:31:19 to come to the point, I'm not being very clear here.
00:31:20 --> 00:31:23 What has actually led, to this research
00:31:23 --> 00:31:26 is that the lifetime of a black hole
00:31:26 --> 00:31:29 is possibly much, much longer
00:31:29 --> 00:31:32 than Hawking predicted that these primordial
00:31:32 --> 00:31:35 black holes would last. He gave them because
00:31:35 --> 00:31:37 they were smaller. He gave them a relatively short
00:31:37 --> 00:31:40 lifetime. Black holes, we know, do
00:31:40 --> 00:31:43 evaporate because they release Hawking radiation. This
00:31:43 --> 00:31:45 quantum, mechanics phenomena. and,
00:31:48 --> 00:31:51 the idea, even though that is a very, very slow
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53 process. If you've got these sort of mini black holes that
00:31:53 --> 00:31:56 were formed in the, origin of the
00:31:56 --> 00:31:59 universe, our thinking was that they might all have evaporated
00:31:59 --> 00:32:02 by now. And that's where this new research
00:32:02 --> 00:32:04 comes in. Because they're proposing a new
00:32:04 --> 00:32:07 mechanism, which has got an interesting name.
00:32:07 --> 00:32:10 It is, something called.
00:32:11 --> 00:32:14 I've lost the name of it. M It's
00:32:14 --> 00:32:17 basically, yes, the memory burden effect. Work
00:32:17 --> 00:32:20 that one out. Yeah, the
00:32:20 --> 00:32:22 memory burden effect, suggests
00:32:22 --> 00:32:25 that, the information
00:32:26 --> 00:32:28 stored, if I can put it that way, in the black hole.
00:32:28 --> 00:32:31 Actually stabilises it and keeps it,
00:32:31 --> 00:32:34 from decaying. So that the. To cut to the
00:32:34 --> 00:32:37 quick, the idea is that these
00:32:37 --> 00:32:40 primordial black holes. Might last a lot longer than
00:32:40 --> 00:32:43 Hawking predicted they would. And perhaps they
00:32:43 --> 00:32:45 are, after all, the missing dark matter.
00:32:46 --> 00:32:49 Now, that still has to account for why we
00:32:49 --> 00:32:51 didn't detect them by gravitational lensing. During the
00:32:51 --> 00:32:54 Macho experiment. And similar experiments carried
00:32:54 --> 00:32:57 out elsewhere in the world. But it is an interesting
00:32:57 --> 00:32:58 possibility.
00:32:58 --> 00:32:59 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, yes.
00:33:01 --> 00:33:04 it's probably the best theory we've got, I suppose, at
00:33:04 --> 00:33:05 the moment.
00:33:06 --> 00:33:08 Professor Fred Watson: yeah. I'm not sure that it is. Oh,
00:33:08 --> 00:33:11 okay. I, think, You
00:33:11 --> 00:33:14 know, I, I Because
00:33:14 --> 00:33:17 we don't even know whether primordial black holes
00:33:17 --> 00:33:19 actually exist. we don't know that these
00:33:19 --> 00:33:22 subatomic particles exist either. but
00:33:22 --> 00:33:25 it seems to me that the bill is better
00:33:25 --> 00:33:28 fitted by what black holes might be.
00:33:28 --> 00:33:31 sorry, by what dark matter might be. by
00:33:31 --> 00:33:34 the subatomic particles rather than
00:33:34 --> 00:33:36 primordial black holes.
00:33:36 --> 00:33:39 Andrew Dunkley: Well, they won't be letting you do a peer review, will they?
00:33:39 --> 00:33:41 Professor Fred Watson: They won't. No, that's about me. I've made my mind up
00:33:41 --> 00:33:44 already, you see, but we don't know what they are. What? You know, are
00:33:44 --> 00:33:47 they neutralinos? Are they WIMPs?
00:33:47 --> 00:33:49 Weakly interacting massive particles?
00:33:50 --> 00:33:53 Sterile neutrinos? There's all kinds of things that have been
00:33:53 --> 00:33:56 proposed for these, subatomic particles, but
00:33:56 --> 00:33:57 none have yet been detected.
00:33:57 --> 00:34:00 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, all right, interesting. I'm sure that'll
00:34:00 --> 00:34:03 spawn no questions whatsoever from our audience.
00:34:04 --> 00:34:07 Professor Fred Watson: Heidi will have to deal with them next time. Yes, he will.
00:34:07 --> 00:34:09 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, she will indeed.
00:34:10 --> 00:34:12 so if you'd like to chase that up, there's a great article,
00:34:13 --> 00:34:14 on fizz
00:34:16 --> 00:34:19 detecting the primordial black holes that could be today's
00:34:19 --> 00:34:21 dark matter. Fred Watson thinks not.
00:34:22 --> 00:34:25 But, that's what science is about, tossing these ideas
00:34:25 --> 00:34:28 around. And that brings us to the end of
00:34:28 --> 00:34:30 yet another episode of Space Nuts. Thanks, Fred Watson.
00:34:31 --> 00:34:34 Professor Fred Watson: It's a pleasure, Andrew. Always good to talk. And, I look forward to
00:34:34 --> 00:34:34 our next time.
00:34:35 --> 00:34:38 Andrew Dunkley: Indeed. And thanks, to Huw in the
00:34:38 --> 00:34:41 studio who couldn't be with us today. He found himself a
00:34:41 --> 00:34:44 primordial black hole and. And we've
00:34:44 --> 00:34:46 not seen him since him since Baron
00:34:46 --> 00:34:49 Feed Love Spaghetti. with me, Andrew
00:34:49 --> 00:34:52 Dunkley. Thanks for your company. Catch you on the next episode of
00:34:52 --> 00:34:54 Space Nuts. Bye. Bye.
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