00:00:00 --> 00:00:01 Andrew Dunkley: Hi there. Look who's back.
00:00:03 --> 00:00:05 Yes, it's me. Back from,
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 uh, everywhere we went. Everywhere. Anyway, I
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 won't bore you with all of that. Andrew
00:00:10 --> 00:00:12 Dunkley here. Great to have your company on
00:00:12 --> 00:00:14 another episode of Space Nuts.
00:00:14 --> 00:00:17 And coming up on today's show, we will
00:00:17 --> 00:00:20 be diving into the weird world
00:00:20 --> 00:00:23 of exo. Asteroids or
00:00:23 --> 00:00:26 exocomets or whatever they are. 30, uh,
00:00:26 --> 00:00:29 one atlas to be exact. And it turns
00:00:29 --> 00:00:31 out it's a bit of a strange one. Uh, also in
00:00:31 --> 00:00:34 Insight, uh, the Insight mission is
00:00:34 --> 00:00:37 unravelling Mars's secrets, uh,
00:00:37 --> 00:00:39 particularly its deep, dark past. And believe
00:00:39 --> 00:00:42 me, it's a little bit ugly. And
00:00:42 --> 00:00:45 a galactic habitable zone.
00:00:45 --> 00:00:48 Is there such a thing? What does it mean? And
00:00:48 --> 00:00:49 what are we going to find there? We'll find
00:00:49 --> 00:00:52 out on this episode of space nuts. 15
00:00:52 --> 00:00:54 seconds. Guidance is internal.
00:00:55 --> 00:00:57 Voice Over Guy: 10, 9. Ignition
00:00:57 --> 00:01:00 sequence start. Space nuts. 5, 4,
00:01:00 --> 00:01:03 3. 2. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
00:01:05 --> 00:01:07 Space nuts. Astronauts report it feels good.
00:01:08 --> 00:01:11 Andrew Dunkley: And joining us to do all the unravelling
00:01:11 --> 00:01:13 is Professor Fred Watson Watson, astronomer
00:01:13 --> 00:01:14 at large. Hello, Fred Watson.
00:01:15 --> 00:01:18 Professor Fred Watson: Welcome back, Andrew. It's, um, a, uh, treat
00:01:18 --> 00:01:19 to see your smiling face.
00:01:21 --> 00:01:23 Andrew Dunkley: It's a treat. It's a treat to be back and
00:01:23 --> 00:01:25 doing this after it's been three months. I
00:01:25 --> 00:01:28 can't believe that, uh, it's been.
00:01:29 --> 00:01:31 Judy and I were only saying today we cannot
00:01:31 --> 00:01:33 get our heads around the fact that we're away
00:01:33 --> 00:01:34 for three months because it doesn't feel like
00:01:34 --> 00:01:37 it. It's just, you know, it
00:01:37 --> 00:01:40 went so fast. But, gee, we had a good time,
00:01:40 --> 00:01:43 Fred Watson. We had an amazing time. Um,
00:01:43 --> 00:01:45 unfortunately, did not get to see the
00:01:45 --> 00:01:47 northern lights. And that was
00:01:48 --> 00:01:50 one of my. But I might get another
00:01:50 --> 00:01:52 opportunity. You know, it's not the last time
00:01:52 --> 00:01:54 we'll go away somewhere, so fingers crossed.
00:01:54 --> 00:01:57 But, um, even as far north as, uh,
00:01:57 --> 00:02:00 North Cape, the northern tip of Europe, right
00:02:00 --> 00:02:03 up inside the Arctic Circle, did not see a
00:02:03 --> 00:02:05 thing. Uh, probably because it was nearly
00:02:05 --> 00:02:08 daylight every minute of the day and night.
00:02:08 --> 00:02:10 So that doesn't help.
00:02:12 --> 00:02:15 Um, but, yeah, a terrific holiday. I don't. I
00:02:15 --> 00:02:16 wouldn't know where to start to tell you
00:02:16 --> 00:02:18 about it. I know I posted a lot of pictures
00:02:18 --> 00:02:21 that people saw, uh, every time we went away
00:02:21 --> 00:02:24 or went somewhere, um, but just
00:02:24 --> 00:02:26 saw some amazing things, met some amazing
00:02:26 --> 00:02:29 people, had some amazing moments. Just,
00:02:29 --> 00:02:31 um, little things that we didn't expect.
00:02:31 --> 00:02:34 Like, uh, the captain of the ship suddenly
00:02:34 --> 00:02:36 deciding at the last minute to take us up,
00:02:36 --> 00:02:39 um, Prince Christian Sound
00:02:39 --> 00:02:42 in Norway, which is somewhere where not
00:02:42 --> 00:02:45 many people get to go. And the only way to
00:02:45 --> 00:02:48 get there is by ship. And it is Full of
00:02:48 --> 00:02:50 icebergs and wildlife and
00:02:51 --> 00:02:54 just, um, glacier after glacier
00:02:54 --> 00:02:56 after glacier right there in front of you.
00:02:57 --> 00:02:59 Um, it's indescribable. Uh, it's just the
00:02:59 --> 00:03:02 most amazing scenery. Uh, we sat
00:03:02 --> 00:03:05 up on the deck for seven and a half hours
00:03:05 --> 00:03:07 straight just taking it all in. We did not
00:03:07 --> 00:03:10 move. It was that captivating.
00:03:11 --> 00:03:13 Um, that was one of the highlights.
00:03:13 --> 00:03:16 Um, Namibia was amazing. Loved
00:03:16 --> 00:03:19 Namibia. Uh, we,
00:03:19 --> 00:03:22 um, loved Scotland. Loved Edinburgh,
00:03:22 --> 00:03:25 Fred Watson. What a terrific place. Um, we
00:03:25 --> 00:03:27 had porridge for breakfast and.
00:03:27 --> 00:03:29 Professor Fred Watson: You have haggis for lunch, didn't you?
00:03:29 --> 00:03:31 Andrew Dunkley: And had haggis for lunch, which, surprise was
00:03:31 --> 00:03:33 surprisingly nice. I, you know, you hear
00:03:33 --> 00:03:36 horror stories, but it was actually quite
00:03:36 --> 00:03:38 tasty. Really enjoyed it. And,
00:03:38 --> 00:03:41 um, look, the countries we visited were,
00:03:41 --> 00:03:44 were many. Uh, the highlights were
00:03:44 --> 00:03:47 numerous. I wouldn't, I could talk for
00:03:47 --> 00:03:49 hours, which probably wouldn't work well on a
00:03:49 --> 00:03:52 space podcast. So I won't, um,
00:03:53 --> 00:03:54 I won't say too much more about that.
00:03:54 --> 00:03:57 Although at Tenerife we did see the
00:03:57 --> 00:04:00 observatory up, um, above the snow
00:04:00 --> 00:04:02 line there. Above the, um, uh,
00:04:03 --> 00:04:06 tree line, actually, not the snow line. Um,
00:04:06 --> 00:04:08 you drive up the hill, you've probably done
00:04:08 --> 00:04:10 this bread, and all of a sudden there's no
00:04:10 --> 00:04:12 vegetation, it's just gone.
00:04:13 --> 00:04:15 And, um, there's an observatory up there
00:04:15 --> 00:04:17 which is primarily a solar observatory,
00:04:18 --> 00:04:18 so.
00:04:18 --> 00:04:21 Professor Fred Watson: That's right, yeah. Got to have. So Tad is
00:04:21 --> 00:04:22 the name of the mountain, Katie.
00:04:22 --> 00:04:22 Andrew Dunkley: That's right.
00:04:22 --> 00:04:23 Professor Fred Watson: Yep, yep, yep.
00:04:23 --> 00:04:24 Andrew Dunkley: Yes.
00:04:25 --> 00:04:26 But, uh, here we are back again.
00:04:27 --> 00:04:29 Professor Fred Watson: Um, yeah, I do have a question for you about.
00:04:29 --> 00:04:30 Andrew Dunkley: Oh, ah, yeah.
00:04:31 --> 00:04:33 Professor Fred Watson: Andrew, did you. Did you run into any space
00:04:34 --> 00:04:35 nuts? I did,
00:04:36 --> 00:04:37 I actually did.
00:04:38 --> 00:04:40 Andrew Dunkley: Um, one in particular who I ran into
00:04:41 --> 00:04:44 in a toilet on a ship. On our
00:04:44 --> 00:04:47 cruise ship. I was walking out
00:04:47 --> 00:04:48 and this, he said, um, are you Andrew
00:04:48 --> 00:04:51 Dunkley? And I went, yes, he said, he
00:04:51 --> 00:04:54 said, I'm a Space Nuts listener, he said. And
00:04:54 --> 00:04:56 I remember he did message. Message me to say
00:04:56 --> 00:04:58 he'd be on the cruise and getting on in Dover
00:04:58 --> 00:05:00 and I'd forgotten about that. And, uh, yeah,
00:05:00 --> 00:05:02 we ran into each other in passing. So,
00:05:03 --> 00:05:06 um. And as always, I've forgotten his
00:05:06 --> 00:05:08 name and I apologise for that. But it was
00:05:08 --> 00:05:11 nice to catch up. So, yes, we did. No, it ran
00:05:11 --> 00:05:14 into a few. A few people I did pass, uh, or
00:05:14 --> 00:05:16 speak to on the ship knew me, but I don't
00:05:16 --> 00:05:19 know if they knew me from radio or from the
00:05:19 --> 00:05:21 podcast. We never really clarified that. But
00:05:22 --> 00:05:24 yeah, it was, uh, it was quite extraordinary.
00:05:25 --> 00:05:27 Um, but if you jump on Facebook, all
00:05:27 --> 00:05:29 my photos are on my Facebook page and
00:05:29 --> 00:05:31 Instagram So you should be able to see most
00:05:31 --> 00:05:34 of what we did. So I don't take up the rest
00:05:34 --> 00:05:36 of the show talking about it,
00:05:36 --> 00:05:38 although I'll probably, probably have times
00:05:39 --> 00:05:41 where I'll make references to things we saw
00:05:41 --> 00:05:43 and didn't. Yeah.
00:05:44 --> 00:05:47 Now, um, we've got a lot to talk about, but
00:05:47 --> 00:05:49 one of the things you do want to discuss and
00:05:49 --> 00:05:51 I think you did that with Heidi. Oh, and I'd
00:05:51 --> 00:05:53 like to say just my, um,
00:05:55 --> 00:05:57 sincere thanks to Heidi for stepping up and
00:05:57 --> 00:05:59 covering the last few months. It was a, it
00:05:59 --> 00:06:02 was a big job and she did, did fantastically.
00:06:02 --> 00:06:04 The feedback I've been getting, uh, even
00:06:04 --> 00:06:07 while I was away was, uh, was glowing. So
00:06:07 --> 00:06:09 well done, Heid Heidi and thank you, Much
00:06:09 --> 00:06:12 appreciated. Uh, and you
00:06:12 --> 00:06:13 talked to her last week and you want to
00:06:13 --> 00:06:15 mention again, the Australian Dark sky
00:06:15 --> 00:06:17 alliance is looking for some support.
00:06:18 --> 00:06:20 Professor Fred Watson: That's right. So if you're not
00:06:21 --> 00:06:24 either resident in or a citizen of Australia,
00:06:24 --> 00:06:26 you can zone out for a minute while I talk
00:06:26 --> 00:06:29 about a petition which the Australasian
00:06:29 --> 00:06:32 Dark sky alliance, uh, is trying
00:06:32 --> 00:06:34 to get put up to the, the federal government,
00:06:35 --> 00:06:37 the government of Australia, in order to
00:06:37 --> 00:06:40 put legislation in place to limit light
00:06:40 --> 00:06:42 pollution, to actually restrict it as an
00:06:42 --> 00:06:44 environmental issue, not just for
00:06:44 --> 00:06:46 astronomers, but for wildlife, for human
00:06:46 --> 00:06:49 health, all of the above. So if you do fall
00:06:49 --> 00:06:51 into one of those categories, uh, the place
00:06:51 --> 00:06:53 to go is their website, which is all one
00:06:53 --> 00:06:54 word,
00:06:54 --> 00:06:58 australasiandarkskyalliance.org
00:06:58 --> 00:06:59 uh, and so
00:06:59 --> 00:07:02 australasiandarkskyalliantiance.org will take
00:07:02 --> 00:07:04 you to their website, which on the front page
00:07:04 --> 00:07:07 has instructions on how to sign the petition.
00:07:07 --> 00:07:09 And you've got till September 19th. And
00:07:09 --> 00:07:11 thank you for that plug and.
00:07:12 --> 00:07:15 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, my great pleasure. Uh, and hopefully the
00:07:15 --> 00:07:17 politicians will listen. Hopefully you get
00:07:17 --> 00:07:19 the numbers. That's the most important thing.
00:07:21 --> 00:07:23 And it's a really important thing. I mean,
00:07:23 --> 00:07:26 uh, we've talked about light pollution
00:07:26 --> 00:07:29 many, many times over the years. And it's
00:07:29 --> 00:07:31 just one of those growing problems,
00:07:32 --> 00:07:34 uh, which doesn't seem to get a lot of
00:07:34 --> 00:07:35 attention because no one really thinks about
00:07:35 --> 00:07:38 it as a problem. I suppose that's the
00:07:38 --> 00:07:38 problem.
00:07:39 --> 00:07:41 Professor Fred Watson: It is, uh, uh, on the other hand, it is one
00:07:41 --> 00:07:44 of the easiest to fix because flick of switch
00:07:44 --> 00:07:47 actually does it. Um, but you're right, I
00:07:47 --> 00:07:49 mean there's certainly regulations in regard
00:07:49 --> 00:07:52 to noise pollution, uh, and of course every
00:07:52 --> 00:07:54 other kind of pollution. We're seeing
00:07:54 --> 00:07:56 regulation coming in on plastics pollution.
00:07:56 --> 00:07:59 But light pollution is the orphan pollution
00:07:59 --> 00:08:00 at the moment. And it's an important one.
00:08:00 --> 00:08:02 It's one that's more important than Most
00:08:02 --> 00:08:05 people realise, and one statistic, uh, you
00:08:05 --> 00:08:06 might not be aware of this Andrew, but light
00:08:06 --> 00:08:09 pollution is increasing globally at
00:08:09 --> 00:08:12 10% per year. So that
00:08:12 --> 00:08:14 comes from cities and science. Yeah, we know
00:08:14 --> 00:08:16 uh, that the stars are disappearing at that
00:08:16 --> 00:08:19 rate, 10% a year, it's very
00:08:19 --> 00:08:20 ugly indeed.
00:08:21 --> 00:08:23 Andrew Dunkley: That is, that's not good at all. And having
00:08:23 --> 00:08:26 witnessed now 24 hour day sunlight, I
00:08:26 --> 00:08:28 do understand how it could mess you with your
00:08:28 --> 00:08:31 brain. So it's not good for human
00:08:31 --> 00:08:33 healthy. Uh, so that's
00:08:33 --> 00:08:36 australasiandarkskyaalliance.org
00:08:37 --> 00:08:40 uh, 10 signatures by the 19th
00:08:40 --> 00:08:41 of September if you will.
00:08:42 --> 00:08:44 Uh, right, our first topic, Fred Watson,
00:08:45 --> 00:08:47 takes us uh, into the realm of uh,
00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 interstellar objects. 31 Atlas.
00:08:50 --> 00:08:53 Um, now I did see this one pop up in the
00:08:53 --> 00:08:55 news while I was away. I did try to keep in
00:08:55 --> 00:08:57 touch but um, when you're moving into
00:08:57 --> 00:08:59 different time zones of different parts of
00:08:59 --> 00:09:01 the world, your news suddenly changes,
00:09:02 --> 00:09:04 which is a little bit weird. Uh, but
00:09:04 --> 00:09:07 31 Atlas, um, this one was only a recent
00:09:07 --> 00:09:09 discovery and it's hammering way through our
00:09:09 --> 00:09:12 ah, system as we speak. Uh, but they've been
00:09:12 --> 00:09:14 uh, able to analyse it thanks to the James
00:09:14 --> 00:09:17 Horace Webb Space Telescope. And this one's a
00:09:17 --> 00:09:18 little bit unusual.
00:09:19 --> 00:09:22 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, that's right. And um, because all the
00:09:22 --> 00:09:25 text you've read is in uh,
00:09:25 --> 00:09:28 Arial, uh, font, you wouldn't
00:09:28 --> 00:09:30 have no way of knowing that it's actually 3I
00:09:30 --> 00:09:32 Atlas. Holy
00:09:32 --> 00:09:35 circumstances. 3I
00:09:35 --> 00:09:37 being the third interstellar, the third
00:09:37 --> 00:09:39 interstellar, uh, object to pass through the
00:09:39 --> 00:09:41 solar system and uh, Atlas, of course, and
00:09:41 --> 00:09:43 then the facility that discovered it.
00:09:43 --> 00:09:45 Andrew Dunkley: I'm using jet lag as an excuse.
00:09:46 --> 00:09:48 Professor Fred Watson: It doesn't matter. Even if you weren't jet
00:09:48 --> 00:09:50 lag, you wouldn't have known because now.
00:09:52 --> 00:09:53 Andrew Dunkley: 31.
00:09:54 --> 00:09:56 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, but it's 3i. Never mind.
00:09:57 --> 00:10:00 You see that's the advantage of uh, times,
00:10:00 --> 00:10:03 Times New Roman. That would, that would solve
00:10:03 --> 00:10:05 the problem. Um, anyway,
00:10:05 --> 00:10:08 this is being observed uh, as it flies by
00:10:08 --> 00:10:11 the solar system. It's closest to the sun if
00:10:11 --> 00:10:13 I remember rightly, on the 29th of October.
00:10:14 --> 00:10:16 So unlike uh, uh, unlike
00:10:16 --> 00:10:19 Oumuamua, which was one eye, the first
00:10:19 --> 00:10:22 um, interstellar object, uh, we
00:10:22 --> 00:10:25 didn't catch up with that until it was on its
00:10:25 --> 00:10:28 way out of the solar system Atlas, uh,
00:10:28 --> 00:10:31 uh, we found on the way in. Uh,
00:10:31 --> 00:10:34 and one reason for that is that it's a much
00:10:34 --> 00:10:37 bigger object. Um, I think um, the
00:10:37 --> 00:10:39 best estimate we got for the size of
00:10:39 --> 00:10:42 Oumuamua was something like 40,
00:10:43 --> 00:10:45 maybe 100 metres long, something of that
00:10:45 --> 00:10:46 sort. I can't remember the exact number but
00:10:46 --> 00:10:48 this thing is thought to be about 20
00:10:48 --> 00:10:51 kilometres across um and
00:10:51 --> 00:10:53 it's despite um the
00:10:53 --> 00:10:56 prognostications of Avilob who wanted uh
00:10:56 --> 00:10:59 it to be an interstellar spacecraft.
00:10:59 --> 00:11:02 It's behaving exactly like a comet in that
00:11:02 --> 00:11:05 it's uh, as it approaches the sun the
00:11:05 --> 00:11:07 material that it's made of which is a mixture
00:11:07 --> 00:11:10 of ice and dust uh that
00:11:10 --> 00:11:13 heats up the ice turns into a vapour, the
00:11:13 --> 00:11:15 dust gets released and it generates what we
00:11:15 --> 00:11:18 call a coma um coma is just a word meaning
00:11:18 --> 00:11:21 hair and it's uh, a sort of fuzzy bit of
00:11:21 --> 00:11:24 the uh, of the comet and um,
00:11:24 --> 00:11:26 develops a tail and indeed three eye Atlas
00:11:26 --> 00:11:29 has done that. Um it's uh,
00:11:29 --> 00:11:32 what's of interest uh of course is
00:11:32 --> 00:11:35 that there are mixed in with the dust
00:11:35 --> 00:11:37 there are atoms and in fact molecules of the,
00:11:38 --> 00:11:40 of the material that binds it together, the
00:11:40 --> 00:11:42 ices that bind it together. And it's not just
00:11:42 --> 00:11:44 water ice. We know that comets are made
00:11:44 --> 00:11:47 mostly of water ice. Water as we've said many
00:11:47 --> 00:11:50 times on space knots is the most common
00:11:50 --> 00:11:53 two element uh molecule in the universe.
00:11:53 --> 00:11:56 Uh so it's natural that we should find water
00:11:56 --> 00:11:57 in comets. But there's also
00:11:59 --> 00:12:02 basically uh carbon dioxide, CO2, carbon
00:12:02 --> 00:12:04 monoxide CO uh and those
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07 uh gases are revealing their presence by
00:12:07 --> 00:12:10 their spectra. Uh the rainbow spectra that
00:12:10 --> 00:12:13 you can analyse the light that's coming from
00:12:13 --> 00:12:16 them and indeed uh, exactly as you've said
00:12:16 --> 00:12:19 the James Webb Space Telescope is
00:12:19 --> 00:12:21 being uh used by a number of
00:12:21 --> 00:12:24 authors mostly in the United States.
00:12:24 --> 00:12:26 Uh Goddard Space Flight Centre and the
00:12:26 --> 00:12:28 Catholic University of America are two of the
00:12:28 --> 00:12:31 organisations represented. So you've
00:12:31 --> 00:12:33 got carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide,
00:12:33 --> 00:12:35 you've got something called carbonyl
00:12:35 --> 00:12:38 sulphide. Uh all of these are
00:12:38 --> 00:12:41 ah, not unexpected because that's what
00:12:41 --> 00:12:43 we find in comets that belong to the solar
00:12:43 --> 00:12:46 system. But here's the rub,
00:12:47 --> 00:12:49 um and it's the ratio of these
00:12:50 --> 00:12:52 molecules to each other that is
00:12:53 --> 00:12:56 uh the peculiarity of three I atlas
00:12:56 --> 00:12:59 uh and in particular the ratio
00:12:59 --> 00:13:02 of carbon uh dioxide to water
00:13:03 --> 00:13:06 is actually eight to one. So eight
00:13:06 --> 00:13:09 parts of carbon dioxide to one part of water
00:13:10 --> 00:13:12 and that's higher than any other comet that's
00:13:12 --> 00:13:15 ever been seen and way, way above the normal
00:13:15 --> 00:13:18 value um, which is I think
00:13:18 --> 00:13:20 two or three to one, something like that. I
00:13:20 --> 00:13:23 can't remember the exact number. Um however
00:13:23 --> 00:13:26 carbon monoxide has uh
00:13:26 --> 00:13:29 a ratio with water that's more or
00:13:29 --> 00:13:32 less the same as ah, um solar system
00:13:32 --> 00:13:35 comets. It's 1.4. So
00:13:35 --> 00:13:37 there's a puzzle uh why is the carbon
00:13:37 --> 00:13:39 dioxide, so much more abundant. Uh, and
00:13:40 --> 00:13:42 of course, as always, when faced with a
00:13:42 --> 00:13:45 puzzle, um, astronomers start trying
00:13:45 --> 00:13:48 to work out what's going on, uh, and
00:13:49 --> 00:13:51 they basically think
00:13:51 --> 00:13:54 that they have sort of solved
00:13:54 --> 00:13:56 it. Um,
00:13:57 --> 00:13:59 um, it's. One possibility
00:14:00 --> 00:14:03 is if you imagine the host
00:14:03 --> 00:14:06 star system in which this object was created
00:14:06 --> 00:14:09 and it would have formed like the, uh, solar
00:14:09 --> 00:14:11 system's comets, probably in an Oort cloud
00:14:11 --> 00:14:13 like the one we have around our solar system,
00:14:14 --> 00:14:17 which is made of, uh, cometary bodies,
00:14:17 --> 00:14:18 uh, which eventually fall in towards the
00:14:18 --> 00:14:20 inner solar system. And that's when we see
00:14:20 --> 00:14:23 them. Uh, there's a suggestion that if you've
00:14:23 --> 00:14:25 got very high levels of ultraviolet
00:14:27 --> 00:14:29 radiation, uh, from that
00:14:29 --> 00:14:32 host star, and that would be the case if it
00:14:32 --> 00:14:35 was a young and very massive star, um,
00:14:35 --> 00:14:38 that apparently could change this ratio of
00:14:38 --> 00:14:40 water to carbon dioxide.
00:14:40 --> 00:14:43 Um, and another comment that's been
00:14:43 --> 00:14:45 suggested is that maybe, um,
00:14:45 --> 00:14:48 it's uh, a part of that, um,
00:14:48 --> 00:14:51 of the solar system in which it was born.
00:14:51 --> 00:14:54 That's a long way from the host star,
00:14:55 --> 00:14:57 uh, and above the host star's carbon
00:14:57 --> 00:15:00 dioxide ice line. So beyond
00:15:00 --> 00:15:03 a certain distance you get more carbon
00:15:03 --> 00:15:06 dioxide in relation to
00:15:06 --> 00:15:08 water. Uh, and, you know,
00:15:09 --> 00:15:11 that's another possibility. There's several
00:15:11 --> 00:15:14 more that are being thought of. But, uh, the
00:15:14 --> 00:15:16 bottom line is, nearly as always with stories
00:15:16 --> 00:15:18 like this, Andrew, what we need is more
00:15:18 --> 00:15:21 observations. Uh, and uh, you know,
00:15:21 --> 00:15:24 we don't have very long before it will get
00:15:24 --> 00:15:27 too faint to observe. It'll be probably
00:15:27 --> 00:15:29 next year when it starts, um, really
00:15:29 --> 00:15:31 disappearing out of the solar system. But,
00:15:31 --> 00:15:33 uh, so we've got this golden opportunity to
00:15:34 --> 00:15:36 analyse it and, and investigate it. And
00:15:36 --> 00:15:37 that's exactly what's happening.
00:15:38 --> 00:15:41 Andrew Dunkley: How, how visible is this one going to be as
00:15:41 --> 00:15:44 it reaches the inner sanctum of
00:15:44 --> 00:15:44 our solar system?
00:15:44 --> 00:15:47 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, not, not that visible
00:15:47 --> 00:15:49 because, um, in fact, I don't have a figure
00:15:49 --> 00:15:51 for its magnitude, the gobbledygook number
00:15:51 --> 00:15:54 that astronomers use for brightness. Uh, but
00:15:54 --> 00:15:56 it's. It's certainly, um, very much the
00:15:56 --> 00:15:59 province of big telescopes. The thing is, uh,
00:15:59 --> 00:16:01 its nearest approach to Earth, uh,
00:16:02 --> 00:16:05 um, I can't remember. It's more than one
00:16:05 --> 00:16:06 astronomical unit, I think, which is the
00:16:06 --> 00:16:08 distance between the Earth to the sun. I
00:16:08 --> 00:16:10 can't remember the exact distance. Uh,
00:16:11 --> 00:16:14 it's not that close to the sun either. Uh,
00:16:14 --> 00:16:16 and I think I'm right in saying
00:16:17 --> 00:16:19 that when it's closest to the sun, we can't
00:16:19 --> 00:16:21 see it because it's in the same direction.
00:16:21 --> 00:16:24 It's sort of passing behind the Sun. Um, that
00:16:24 --> 00:16:27 was one of the comments that ah avilaeur made
00:16:27 --> 00:16:30 uh suggesting that maybe uh when it was at
00:16:30 --> 00:16:32 its brightest um its orbit had been chosen so
00:16:32 --> 00:16:34 that we couldn't see it it when it was at its
00:16:34 --> 00:16:36 brightest um and the other thing he pointed
00:16:36 --> 00:16:39 out was that it passes very close to or
00:16:39 --> 00:16:42 closeish to Venus, Mars and Jupiter.
00:16:42 --> 00:16:44 Um and um, you know the suggestion was that
00:16:44 --> 00:16:46 there might be intelligent design behind
00:16:46 --> 00:16:49 that. But uh, I think he's the only person
00:16:49 --> 00:16:51 in the astronomical community he thinks.
00:16:51 --> 00:16:54 Andrew Dunkley: That he might be
00:16:54 --> 00:16:57 right. Uh, you got to give him credit
00:16:57 --> 00:16:57 though.
00:16:57 --> 00:17:00 Professor Fred Watson: He's always um. Yeah we need ideas like
00:17:00 --> 00:17:01 that. Absolutely.
00:17:01 --> 00:17:04 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. Yeah. Okay so uh,
00:17:04 --> 00:17:07 and is this one honking along like the others
00:17:08 --> 00:17:08 at a.
00:17:08 --> 00:17:11 Professor Fred Watson: Greater rate of knots, 60 something
00:17:11 --> 00:17:13 kilometres per second which is kind of one of
00:17:13 --> 00:17:15 the things that tells you that it doesn't
00:17:15 --> 00:17:16 belong to our solar system. It's going too
00:17:16 --> 00:17:17 fast.
00:17:17 --> 00:17:20 Andrew Dunkley: Right, There you are. Okay, uh you can read
00:17:20 --> 00:17:23 up on that one uh@universetoday.com
00:17:23 --> 00:17:25 uh3iatlas
00:17:26 --> 00:17:29 Got it. This is Space Nuts with Andrew
00:17:29 --> 00:17:32 Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson Watson.
00:17:36 --> 00:17:39 Space Nuts, our uh next story. Fred Watson
00:17:39 --> 00:17:41 takes us to a place I rarely
00:17:41 --> 00:17:44 mention. Uh it is the red planet Mars.
00:17:45 --> 00:17:47 Uh INSIGHT has uh been um
00:17:47 --> 00:17:50 sort of examining some of the secrets of Mars
00:17:50 --> 00:17:53 and come up with uh new information
00:17:54 --> 00:17:57 that kind of might surprise people about uh
00:17:57 --> 00:17:59 Mars's deep dark and ugly past.
00:18:00 --> 00:18:02 Um, there's been a few revelations.
00:18:03 --> 00:18:05 Professor Fred Watson: There have, yes. Um, I mean INSIGHT is the
00:18:05 --> 00:18:08 gift that keeps on giving really. Um because
00:18:08 --> 00:18:11 it switched off in 2022. Uh
00:18:12 --> 00:18:14 um it's ah a spacecraft that
00:18:14 --> 00:18:17 landed near Mars's equatorial region.
00:18:17 --> 00:18:20 Uh I think in about 2019 was when
00:18:20 --> 00:18:23 it uh touched down um and you might
00:18:23 --> 00:18:25 remember we discussed a lot the instruments
00:18:25 --> 00:18:27 that are on board it because one of them was
00:18:27 --> 00:18:30 a seismometer uh which has been incredibly
00:18:30 --> 00:18:33 successful and the other one was the interior
00:18:33 --> 00:18:35 thermometer which was incredibly unsuccessful
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38 because they were trying to drill a hole to
00:18:38 --> 00:18:41 put this thermometer down under the surface
00:18:41 --> 00:18:43 of uh Mars and I think can't remember what
00:18:43 --> 00:18:44 happened. The drill correct. Kept breaking or
00:18:44 --> 00:18:47 something um unsatisfying
00:18:47 --> 00:18:50 happened uh until that part of the experiment
00:18:50 --> 00:18:52 was not as successful but the seismograph has
00:18:53 --> 00:18:56 done its job and um the results from
00:18:56 --> 00:18:59 that keep um on being reanalysed
00:18:59 --> 00:19:01 uh because as time goes on we've got
00:19:02 --> 00:19:04 many more analytical facilities at our
00:19:04 --> 00:19:07 disposal which we didn't have before. Uh and
00:19:07 --> 00:19:09 um, you can now look at these seismic records
00:19:09 --> 00:19:12 with a lot more meaning and
00:19:12 --> 00:19:15 what's been discovered. It's actually um,
00:19:15 --> 00:19:18 from an analysis of eight seismic
00:19:18 --> 00:19:21 Events, uh, uh, two
00:19:21 --> 00:19:23 of which were probably caused by
00:19:23 --> 00:19:26 meteorite impact on Mars.
00:19:27 --> 00:19:29 Remember um, that the two mechanisms, because
00:19:29 --> 00:19:31 Mars doesn't have plate tectonics, it's
00:19:31 --> 00:19:34 called a single uh, crust. Um,
00:19:35 --> 00:19:38 it's uh, stretching and shrinking of the
00:19:38 --> 00:19:40 crust and sort of rift valleys forming and
00:19:40 --> 00:19:42 things like that that give you the seismic
00:19:42 --> 00:19:45 events or meteorite impacts. And two of
00:19:45 --> 00:19:47 those seismic events as I said, were
00:19:47 --> 00:19:49 meteorite impacts. But um,
00:19:50 --> 00:19:52 it's the way that the uh,
00:19:52 --> 00:19:55 relative frequencies of the vibrations, the
00:19:55 --> 00:19:57 uh, seismic vibrations, the relative
00:19:57 --> 00:20:00 frequencies of these, uh, that
00:20:00 --> 00:20:02 allows people to basically
00:20:02 --> 00:20:05 examine the interior of Mars, uh,
00:20:06 --> 00:20:09 in a very intelligent way. Um,
00:20:09 --> 00:20:12 so you look for higher frequency waves
00:20:12 --> 00:20:15 compared with uh, low frequency waves. And
00:20:15 --> 00:20:17 basically uh, that tells you
00:20:18 --> 00:20:21 uh, about the length of transmission time
00:20:21 --> 00:20:23 uh for these different waves, how long it
00:20:23 --> 00:20:25 takes you to get from the site of impact,
00:20:25 --> 00:20:28 wherever that is, uh to the seismograph.
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30 And uh, one of the authors uh, of this
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33 work. I um, think there's ah, certainly
00:20:33 --> 00:20:35 authors at Imperial College London and
00:20:36 --> 00:20:39 uh, other institutions, uh, but one of the
00:20:39 --> 00:20:41 authors m made a comment, um, which I
00:20:41 --> 00:20:44 liked. These signals show clear signs of
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46 interference as they travel through Mars's
00:20:46 --> 00:20:49 deep interior. That's consistent
00:20:49 --> 00:20:52 with a mantle full of structures of different
00:20:52 --> 00:20:55 compositional origins, leftovers from
00:20:55 --> 00:20:57 Mars's early days. And what that means is
00:20:57 --> 00:21:00 so the mantle is the region between the crust
00:21:00 --> 00:21:03 of uh, Mars and its core,
00:21:03 --> 00:21:06 its hot core. Uh, we've got a mantle on
00:21:06 --> 00:21:09 Earth. I think Mars's mantle is rather uh,
00:21:09 --> 00:21:11 deeper than ours relative to the diameter of
00:21:11 --> 00:21:14 the planet. Um but what they found is that
00:21:14 --> 00:21:17 the mantle isn't a sort of uniform, um,
00:21:18 --> 00:21:21 uh, paste of semi
00:21:21 --> 00:21:23 solid rock, uh but it has
00:21:23 --> 00:21:26 structure in it. Uh, and that structure
00:21:26 --> 00:21:29 is thought to come from uh,
00:21:29 --> 00:21:32 events that took place during Mars
00:21:32 --> 00:21:34 origins. Uh and in fact what they're
00:21:34 --> 00:21:37 suggesting is that um,
00:21:39 --> 00:21:42 when Mars was being formed about
00:21:42 --> 00:21:44 4.5 billion years ago, um,
00:21:44 --> 00:21:47 it was at a time as we've talked about it
00:21:47 --> 00:21:50 before. Not long after that there was the um,
00:21:50 --> 00:21:52 what's it called, The Late Heavy Bombardment,
00:21:53 --> 00:21:55 uh when there was a lot of stuff careering
00:21:55 --> 00:21:58 around the solar system. Big objects the size
00:21:58 --> 00:22:01 of uh, many planets really banging into
00:22:01 --> 00:22:03 everything else. And the suggestion
00:22:04 --> 00:22:06 is that at that period
00:22:07 --> 00:22:10 some of these planetoids or planetesimals,
00:22:10 --> 00:22:13 uh actually collided with Mars and
00:22:13 --> 00:22:16 basically melted parts of Mars,
00:22:16 --> 00:22:19 uh into oceans of
00:22:19 --> 00:22:22 molten magma. Uh, and
00:22:22 --> 00:22:25 then you find that these
00:22:25 --> 00:22:27 regions cool, but
00:22:28 --> 00:22:31 when they're cooled they have
00:22:31 --> 00:22:33 a different structure from the stuff that
00:22:33 --> 00:22:35 didn't get clouted and melted, uh, by
00:22:35 --> 00:22:38 an impact so what you're doing is you're
00:22:38 --> 00:22:40 differentiating between different zones of
00:22:40 --> 00:22:43 Mars's mantle and what they're saying
00:22:43 --> 00:22:46 is that what they're detecting with this uh,
00:22:46 --> 00:22:49 inhomogeneity in Mars's mantle
00:22:49 --> 00:22:51 is evidence of these, what they describe as
00:22:51 --> 00:22:54 compositionally distinct chunks of material.
00:22:54 --> 00:22:56 Uh so um, you know Mars
00:22:57 --> 00:23:00 as mantle has got some bits that were never
00:23:00 --> 00:23:03 reheated and others that were reheated after
00:23:03 --> 00:23:06 the planet's formation by these collisions
00:23:06 --> 00:23:09 probably molten, uh then they hardened and
00:23:09 --> 00:23:11 they crystallised and that gives you a
00:23:11 --> 00:23:13 different structure which is what's now been
00:23:13 --> 00:23:16 seen. So um, it's ah, you know
00:23:16 --> 00:23:18 one of the comments, uh, the same author, uh,
00:23:19 --> 00:23:22 uh, who I just um, I just uh, mentioned
00:23:22 --> 00:23:24 most of this chaos likely unfolded in Mars
00:23:24 --> 00:23:27 first 100 million years. The fact that we can
00:23:27 --> 00:23:30 still detect its traces after 4.5 billion
00:23:30 --> 00:23:33 years shows just how sluggishly Mars's
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36 interior has been churning ever since. Uh
00:23:36 --> 00:23:39 unlike the Earth's which is much more active.
00:23:39 --> 00:23:42 So yeah, um, the Mars story from
00:23:42 --> 00:23:45 Insight keeps on amazing us. We keep
00:23:45 --> 00:23:48 uh, discovering new facts about it and um.
00:23:48 --> 00:23:49 Long may it continue Andrew.
00:23:50 --> 00:23:52 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, yes, hopefully. Um,
00:23:52 --> 00:23:55 and there's so much more to learn. This is
00:23:55 --> 00:23:58 what I love about uh, these inner
00:23:58 --> 00:24:01 planets uh, and the outer planets as well.
00:24:01 --> 00:24:02 The more we look at them and the more we
00:24:02 --> 00:24:05 analyse the data that we're receiving from
00:24:05 --> 00:24:07 various missions, the more interesting they
00:24:07 --> 00:24:10 get and the stranger they get sometimes as is
00:24:10 --> 00:24:12 the case with Mars in this particular
00:24:13 --> 00:24:15 situation. So uh, yeah it's a fascinating
00:24:15 --> 00:24:18 place. Uh, cosmosmagazine.com
00:24:18 --> 00:24:20 is where you need to go to uh, find out more
00:24:20 --> 00:24:22 about that if you'd like to follow up on that
00:24:22 --> 00:24:24 story. Andrew Dunkley here, Fred Watson
00:24:24 --> 00:24:27 Watson there. You're listening to Space Nuts.
00:24:31 --> 00:24:32 Professor Fred Watson: Space Nuts.
00:24:32 --> 00:24:35 Andrew Dunkley: And uh, our final story today is about
00:24:35 --> 00:24:38 a galactic habitable zone. Now we
00:24:38 --> 00:24:40 know about the habitable zone in our own
00:24:40 --> 00:24:43 solar system, uh, which is affectionately
00:24:43 --> 00:24:46 called the Goldilocks Zone. And we
00:24:46 --> 00:24:48 know about that because we're in it. That's
00:24:48 --> 00:24:50 the only thing that keeps us alive really.
00:24:51 --> 00:24:53 Uh, but Fred Watson, my question
00:24:54 --> 00:24:56 first up is uh, are they talking about a
00:24:56 --> 00:24:59 Goldilocks Zone on a galactic scale?
00:24:59 --> 00:25:00 Is that what this is?
00:25:01 --> 00:25:04 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, effectively. Um, but um, it's
00:25:04 --> 00:25:07 not the temperature that's not too
00:25:07 --> 00:25:10 hot and m not too cold but just right as it
00:25:10 --> 00:25:12 is in our Goldilocks Zone the temperature's
00:25:12 --> 00:25:15 just right at this distance from the sun for
00:25:15 --> 00:25:18 liquid water to exist. And we know it
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20 does because we see it pretty well every day
00:25:20 --> 00:25:23 uh, in our um, in Our
00:25:23 --> 00:25:25 reservoirs of water, whether they're a
00:25:25 --> 00:25:28 bathtub or a ah sea. Um, but
00:25:28 --> 00:25:30 that's not what the galactic habitable zone
00:25:30 --> 00:25:32 is about. And it is being called that the
00:25:32 --> 00:25:35 GHz or GHz if you're on
00:25:35 --> 00:25:38 the other side of the Pacific. Um,
00:25:38 --> 00:25:40 it's uh, it's a region where
00:25:41 --> 00:25:43 you might um, expect
00:25:44 --> 00:25:47 to find more habitable planets
00:25:47 --> 00:25:50 than nearer to the centre of our
00:25:50 --> 00:25:51 galaxy or
00:25:53 --> 00:25:56 further out towards the edge of the galaxy.
00:25:57 --> 00:25:58 Uh and it basically
00:26:00 --> 00:26:03 comes uh about uh. Because you can
00:26:03 --> 00:26:06 analyse, you know we know a lot about the way
00:26:06 --> 00:26:09 stars evolve. Uh and we know a
00:26:09 --> 00:26:11 lot about the um, chemicals
00:26:13 --> 00:26:15 um that have basically been found in
00:26:15 --> 00:26:18 stellar interiors and their atmospheres. And
00:26:18 --> 00:26:21 we can trace this history of stars very
00:26:21 --> 00:26:24 accurately. Um and we can
00:26:24 --> 00:26:27 also uh, look at the
00:26:27 --> 00:26:29 orbits of stars around the centre of our
00:26:29 --> 00:26:31 galaxy. Uh and we can work out to some
00:26:31 --> 00:26:34 extent where they've come from because uh, we
00:26:34 --> 00:26:37 think that the orbits of stars actually um,
00:26:37 --> 00:26:39 ah, they actually change in a process called
00:26:39 --> 00:26:42 stellar migration where
00:26:42 --> 00:26:44 stars, orbits change around the centre of the
00:26:44 --> 00:26:47 galaxy. Uh and you,
00:26:47 --> 00:26:50 you know, you can find that they uh, move.
00:26:51 --> 00:26:54 And so one of the studies, uh, one
00:26:54 --> 00:26:57 of the um, comments that's come from
00:26:57 --> 00:26:58 this particular study. It's actually an
00:26:58 --> 00:27:01 international uh team of scientists who have
00:27:01 --> 00:27:03 looked at this. Uh, this is published in
00:27:03 --> 00:27:06 strongly in Astrophysics, one of the main uh
00:27:06 --> 00:27:08 learned journals of astronomy. What they've
00:27:08 --> 00:27:11 discovered is that
00:27:11 --> 00:27:14 um, there's a five times
00:27:15 --> 00:27:18 greater likelihood of
00:27:18 --> 00:27:21 stars migrating from
00:27:22 --> 00:27:24 one part of a
00:27:24 --> 00:27:27 galaxy to another for
00:27:27 --> 00:27:29 habitable planets, for stars that have
00:27:29 --> 00:27:31 habitable planets compared to,
00:27:32 --> 00:27:35 with a lack of any stellar migration. So
00:27:35 --> 00:27:38 it's a slightly, this is a slightly obtuse
00:27:38 --> 00:27:40 thing to look for. Um, but um,
00:27:41 --> 00:27:43 what it says is, you know,
00:27:43 --> 00:27:46 it's all about for example whether you
00:27:47 --> 00:27:49 uh, are in a part of the galaxy
00:27:50 --> 00:27:53 where your solar system could uh,
00:27:53 --> 00:27:56 host gas giant planets because they
00:27:56 --> 00:27:59 would basically have an effect on
00:27:59 --> 00:28:01 the formation of the kind of rocky planets
00:28:01 --> 00:28:04 that we think are the habitable one. Um,
00:28:04 --> 00:28:07 so I might just read um, a ah, quote
00:28:07 --> 00:28:10 from this paper. Uh, it's a little
00:28:10 --> 00:28:13 bit uh, technical but um,
00:28:13 --> 00:28:15 I think it's an interesting quote. It sort of
00:28:15 --> 00:28:17 illuminates what we're talking about. Uh, in
00:28:17 --> 00:28:20 this study we have significantly expanded
00:28:20 --> 00:28:23 the exploration of the parameter space
00:28:23 --> 00:28:26 defining the galactic habitable zone
00:28:26 --> 00:28:29 compared to previous analyses present in
00:28:29 --> 00:28:31 literature. Uh, our findings are particularly
00:28:31 --> 00:28:33 relevant in the context of upcoming space
00:28:34 --> 00:28:36 missions such as the ESA
00:28:37 --> 00:28:40 PLATO mission, that's planetary transits and
00:28:40 --> 00:28:42 oscillations of stars, the uh, ESA Aerial
00:28:42 --> 00:28:45 Space Mission and large Interferometer
00:28:45 --> 00:28:47 for exoplanets. That's life.
00:28:49 --> 00:28:50 And these missions will deliver
00:28:50 --> 00:28:52 unprecedented, um, data on planetary
00:28:52 --> 00:28:55 properties, orbital architectures and
00:28:55 --> 00:28:58 atmospheric concepts, compositions. So what
00:28:58 --> 00:29:01 they're basically saying is, uh,
00:29:01 --> 00:29:02 if you're going to look for habitable
00:29:02 --> 00:29:05 planets, you want to be careful where you
00:29:05 --> 00:29:07 look. Because if there is such a thing as a
00:29:07 --> 00:29:09 stellar or a galactic habitable zone,
00:29:10 --> 00:29:13 um, then, uh, we want to be looking there
00:29:13 --> 00:29:16 if we're going to look for, uh, you know,
00:29:16 --> 00:29:19 for uh, habitable planets. It's an old
00:29:19 --> 00:29:21 idea, actually. The GHz, uh, or
00:29:21 --> 00:29:24 GHz, uh, comes, goes back to the 1980s.
00:29:25 --> 00:29:27 Um, and it's all about, you know, the um, the
00:29:27 --> 00:29:29 formation of the heavier elements.
00:29:30 --> 00:29:33 The ones that are basically work
00:29:33 --> 00:29:36 like iron, silicon, uh,
00:29:36 --> 00:29:39 oxygen, all of these elements. You've got to
00:29:39 --> 00:29:41 form them. You've got to form them in the
00:29:41 --> 00:29:43 right place in a galaxy. And uh, you've got
00:29:43 --> 00:29:46 to then, uh, let that environment
00:29:46 --> 00:29:49 breed these, uh, elements into molecules
00:29:49 --> 00:29:52 which basically become the, um,
00:29:52 --> 00:29:54 uh, precursors of life.
00:29:55 --> 00:29:57 I'm sorry, that's the Gobbler book. Uh,
00:29:57 --> 00:29:58 explanation.
00:29:59 --> 00:30:02 Andrew Dunkley: No, fair enough. Um, so
00:30:02 --> 00:30:04 does that mean that in our ongoing search for
00:30:04 --> 00:30:07 exoplanets, we should be focusing on
00:30:07 --> 00:30:10 the GHz areas?
00:30:11 --> 00:30:13 Uh, or do we not really care where the
00:30:13 --> 00:30:15 exoplanets are? Finding them is imperative
00:30:15 --> 00:30:16 regardless.
00:30:17 --> 00:30:20 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, no, no, that's. That's exactly right.
00:30:20 --> 00:30:21 That's exactly what these authors are saying.
00:30:21 --> 00:30:23 We should be looking in the right place if we
00:30:23 --> 00:30:26 want to find, uh, habitable planets.
00:30:26 --> 00:30:29 Uh, and, um, uh, and indeed,
00:30:29 --> 00:30:31 um, you know, the, the PLATO mission, for
00:30:31 --> 00:30:33 example, is going to look at a million stars.
00:30:33 --> 00:30:35 It's a bit like Kepler. The Kepler mission,
00:30:35 --> 00:30:38 it was. It's finding planets by transits.
00:30:39 --> 00:30:42 Uh, so that's going to scan a million stars
00:30:42 --> 00:30:44 and, and you want to make sure you're looking
00:30:44 --> 00:30:46 at them in the right place. That's the, uh,
00:30:46 --> 00:30:47 bottom line.
00:30:47 --> 00:30:50 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. Although some would say, well, if we
00:30:50 --> 00:30:52 focus only on those areas, we might miss
00:30:52 --> 00:30:55 something important in the not so habitable
00:30:55 --> 00:30:57 zones. You just never know.
00:30:58 --> 00:31:00 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, and part of the problem with that is that
00:31:00 --> 00:31:02 we've only got one example of life, and
00:31:02 --> 00:31:04 that's here on Earth. And so we're sort of
00:31:04 --> 00:31:05 looking for the same kind of chemical
00:31:05 --> 00:31:08 reactions that formed life here on Earth.
00:31:08 --> 00:31:11 Earth, uh, to, to form similar life
00:31:11 --> 00:31:12 elsewhere, but there might be other kinds of
00:31:12 --> 00:31:14 life that don't need those reactions.
00:31:15 --> 00:31:18 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, Ah, it's, um, it's funny
00:31:18 --> 00:31:19 you mentioned that because it just reminded
00:31:19 --> 00:31:21 me while we were on our cruise ship, we, we
00:31:21 --> 00:31:23 played a lot of trivia because, you know,
00:31:23 --> 00:31:26 that's what you do. And one of the questions
00:31:26 --> 00:31:28 that came up was, um, um,
00:31:29 --> 00:31:31 what was. I can't remember the wording, but
00:31:31 --> 00:31:33 they basically wanted you to explain what the
00:31:33 --> 00:31:36 Drake equation was. And I think
00:31:36 --> 00:31:39 only two of us got it out of 200
00:31:39 --> 00:31:42 people. Uh, I was very proud of
00:31:42 --> 00:31:42 myself, actually.
00:31:43 --> 00:31:44 Professor Fred Watson: I'm sure you will be. Yeah. Good on you.
00:31:46 --> 00:31:48 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, okay, so if you want to find out more
00:31:48 --> 00:31:51 about the Galactic Habitable Zone, you
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53 can do that through the universetoday.com
00:31:53 --> 00:31:55 website. It's a really interesting article
00:31:55 --> 00:31:57 too. I did manage to read the first
00:31:57 --> 00:31:57 paragraph.
00:31:58 --> 00:32:01 Uh, now, um, one thing I wanted
00:32:01 --> 00:32:02 to mention when you were talking about
00:32:02 --> 00:32:04 Insight and Mars and Mars not having
00:32:04 --> 00:32:07 tectonics, I, uh, I meant
00:32:07 --> 00:32:09 to add this onto the end of that segment, but
00:32:09 --> 00:32:11 I'll do it now. While we were overseas, uh,
00:32:11 --> 00:32:14 we went to Iceland and what an
00:32:14 --> 00:32:17 amazing place Iceland is. Uh, we got to
00:32:17 --> 00:32:19 walk along a rift valley where the
00:32:20 --> 00:32:22 Eurasian tectonic plate
00:32:22 --> 00:32:25 and the American tectonic plate meet. You can
00:32:25 --> 00:32:28 actually walk along it and the American
00:32:28 --> 00:32:30 plate is going up and over, the Eurasian
00:32:30 --> 00:32:33 plate is going down and under, and you can
00:32:33 --> 00:32:35 walk right on top of that.
00:32:36 --> 00:32:38 And you're walking along thinking, isn't this
00:32:38 --> 00:32:41 amazing? And, um,
00:32:41 --> 00:32:43 then you start seeing the plaques that
00:32:43 --> 00:32:45 explain, well, this was an earthquake in
00:32:45 --> 00:32:48 2011, this was an earthquake in 2015.
00:32:48 --> 00:32:50 And you're thinking, why am I standing here?
00:32:52 --> 00:32:53 Quite incredible.
00:32:53 --> 00:32:55 Professor Fred Watson: So the place you were at is a place called
00:32:55 --> 00:32:58 Thingback. Uh, it's, uh,
00:32:59 --> 00:33:01 uh, not that far from Reykjavik. Uh,
00:33:01 --> 00:33:04 Bungs. Uh, it's not plates colliding, it's
00:33:04 --> 00:33:06 plates dragging apart because you're in the
00:33:06 --> 00:33:08 middle of. Yeah, so they're
00:33:08 --> 00:33:10 separating. So you need to be even more
00:33:10 --> 00:33:12 careful because if they separate a bit faster
00:33:12 --> 00:33:14 on the day you're walking through it, you're
00:33:14 --> 00:33:15 going to drop right into the hole.
00:33:16 --> 00:33:18 Andrew Dunkley: Well, there are a lot of cracks in the ground
00:33:18 --> 00:33:21 in that part of the. So it does make sense.
00:33:21 --> 00:33:24 Um, I must not have read the literature
00:33:24 --> 00:33:26 when they explained what was happening
00:33:26 --> 00:33:28 exactly, but I thought they said colliding.
00:33:28 --> 00:33:31 Professor Fred Watson: So it's coming
00:33:31 --> 00:33:33 apart. It's the Mid Atlantic Ridge. That is
00:33:33 --> 00:33:36 the only place where the Mid Atlantic Ridge
00:33:36 --> 00:33:39 is on the surface. And Tingviklijk is
00:33:39 --> 00:33:41 where it's where it's most obvious. There is
00:33:41 --> 00:33:43 another place, uh, not very far from there.
00:33:43 --> 00:33:46 So actually on the Reykjanesput
00:33:46 --> 00:33:49 Peninsula to the west of,
00:33:49 --> 00:33:51 uh, Reykjavik. And there, there's a bridge
00:33:51 --> 00:33:54 across this border. Uh, and you
00:33:54 --> 00:33:56 can stand on one side of the bridge and
00:33:56 --> 00:33:58 you're on the Eurasian plate Stand on the
00:33:58 --> 00:33:59 other. You're on the American complaint. And
00:33:59 --> 00:34:01 all the locals think it's a great joke
00:34:01 --> 00:34:03 because you know there are things like this
00:34:03 --> 00:34:05 all over the island. Basically the island
00:34:05 --> 00:34:08 splitting in. In pieces because of the. Of
00:34:08 --> 00:34:09 that separation.
00:34:09 --> 00:34:12 Andrew Dunkley: But yeah, saw photos of
00:34:12 --> 00:34:13 people doing that. But we didn't go. We
00:34:13 --> 00:34:15 didn't go there but we went to. Oh, we went
00:34:15 --> 00:34:18 to a lot of places in Iceland. But um.
00:34:19 --> 00:34:21 One of the things we learned about a lot
00:34:22 --> 00:34:25 in places like Iceland and Greenland and up
00:34:25 --> 00:34:27 in um, Northern Europe was how
00:34:27 --> 00:34:30 fast the glaciers are melting. M. And
00:34:31 --> 00:34:34 shocking. It is very shocking.
00:34:34 --> 00:34:37 Some of them are um, uh. Ah, losing
00:34:37 --> 00:34:39 20 metres or 200 metres a year
00:34:40 --> 00:34:43 I should say, which is staggering. And
00:34:44 --> 00:34:47 that's lost forever. Um, we can't
00:34:47 --> 00:34:50 reverse that. So ah, it is rather
00:34:50 --> 00:34:53 shocking in fact. Uh, we were, I think it was
00:34:53 --> 00:34:56 when we were in the um, uh,
00:34:56 --> 00:34:59 Saint Christian Sound, uh, Prince Christian
00:34:59 --> 00:35:02 Sound, uh, they were saying um,
00:35:02 --> 00:35:04 see that rock in front of that uh, glacier?
00:35:04 --> 00:35:07 And we all went yeah. Well it was actually
00:35:07 --> 00:35:10 covered in ice two years ago. Yeah, that's
00:35:10 --> 00:35:12 how bad it's getting. And this is just this
00:35:12 --> 00:35:14 rock in the middle of nowhere and the ice is
00:35:14 --> 00:35:17 way, way, way back. So yeah,
00:35:17 --> 00:35:19 pretty shocking stuff. Um,
00:35:19 --> 00:35:21 that's just about it. Fred Watson, thank you
00:35:21 --> 00:35:22 so much.
00:35:23 --> 00:35:25 Professor Fred Watson: It's a pleasure. Andrew, it's great to
00:35:25 --> 00:35:27 welcome you back and um, I um,
00:35:28 --> 00:35:31 look forward to continuing the uh, recordings
00:35:31 --> 00:35:33 at a um, time that
00:35:34 --> 00:35:36 you don't have to choose between awkward
00:35:36 --> 00:35:38 times on different sides of the planet. Which
00:35:38 --> 00:35:40 is what we could do. Heidi and uh, I juggling
00:35:40 --> 00:35:42 our uh, respective uh, days.
00:35:43 --> 00:35:44 Andrew Dunkley: It's a bit difficult with those time
00:35:44 --> 00:35:46 differences. Well, while we were on the ship
00:35:46 --> 00:35:49 we sold a few and bought a house which in the
00:35:49 --> 00:35:51 early phases was simple because it was only a
00:35:51 --> 00:35:52 few hours time difference. But when it got to
00:35:52 --> 00:35:55 the real crunch of you know, settling it all,
00:35:56 --> 00:35:58 uh, the time difference was 12 hours. So it
00:35:58 --> 00:36:01 really got difficult. But uh, it's done now
00:36:01 --> 00:36:03 and yes, we're in our new place. I should
00:36:03 --> 00:36:06 show it to you. I've got the, I've got the
00:36:06 --> 00:36:09 um, the Yankees Red uh, Sox
00:36:09 --> 00:36:10 baseball game background on. Because I took
00:36:10 --> 00:36:12 that photo when we went and watched a game in
00:36:12 --> 00:36:15 New York the other day uh, which was a lot of
00:36:15 --> 00:36:16 fun and the Red Sox one.
00:36:16 --> 00:36:17 Professor Fred Watson: Whoops.
00:36:17 --> 00:36:20 Andrew Dunkley: Um, but um, yeah, I'll put a normal
00:36:20 --> 00:36:22 background on so you can see the new place
00:36:22 --> 00:36:24 which pretty much looks the same as the old
00:36:24 --> 00:36:26 place. But anyway, whatever. Thanks
00:36:26 --> 00:36:28 Fred Watson. We'll catch you real soon.
00:36:28 --> 00:36:30 Professor Fred Watson: Sounds good. Thanks Andrew. Take care.
00:36:31 --> 00:36:33 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, you too. And don't forget, uh, if you
00:36:33 --> 00:36:36 would like to support the Australasian Dark
00:36:36 --> 00:36:38 sky alliance and get, uh, those
00:36:38 --> 00:36:40 signatures on their petition, it's
00:36:40 --> 00:36:43 australiandarkskyalliance.org
00:36:43 --> 00:36:46 and, uh, just follow the prompts, uh, for
00:36:46 --> 00:36:49 Australian signatories only. Australian,
00:36:49 --> 00:36:50 uh, Australasian
00:36:50 --> 00:36:53 darkskyalliance.org uh,
00:36:53 --> 00:36:55 that's it from me. And, oh, I forgot to thank
00:36:55 --> 00:36:58 Huw in the studio, which
00:36:58 --> 00:37:01 I quite often do. Uh, from me, Andrew
00:37:01 --> 00:37:03 Dunkley. Thanks for your company. See you on
00:37:03 --> 00:37:05 the next episode of Space Nuts. Bye. Bye.
00:37:06 --> 00:37:08 Voice Over Guy: You've been listening to the Space Nuts
00:37:08 --> 00:37:11 podcast cast, available
00:37:11 --> 00:37:13 at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
00:37:13 --> 00:37:16 iHeartRadio or your favourite podcast
00:37:16 --> 00:37:18 player. You can also stream On Demand at
00:37:18 --> 00:37:21 bitesz. com. This has been another quality
00:37:21 --> 00:37:24 podcast production from bitesz. com