In this engaging episode of Space Nuts, Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson explore two mysteries from Mars, along with a new effort to listen for signs of life beyond Earth. First, they unpack Japan’s Martian Moons eXploration (MMX) mission, which will study Phobos and Deimos, attempt a landing on Phobos and bring samples back to Earth. The discussion turns to a Marsquake traced to the immense Valles Marineris canyon, offering fresh clues that the Red Planet may still be geologically active. Finally, Andrew and Fred Watson examine Saudi Arabia’s plans for a major astronomical observatory, including a site for Laser SETI detectors searching for brief flashes of possible extraterrestrial communication. Join them for a cosmic tour filled with planetary puzzles, ambitious missions and a little speculation about how aliens might get in touch.
Key topics
- Japan’s MMX mission to investigate Mars’ moons and return samples from Phobos.
- The possible origins of Phobos and Deimos, and the challenges of landing on a world with almost no gravity.
- A Marsquake linked to Valles Marineris and what it suggests about the planet’s geological activity.
- Saudi Arabia’s planned observatory and the use of optical Laser SETI detectors in the search for extraterrestrial signals.
Timestamps
00:00 - Introduction and episode overview
01:20 - Japan’s MMX mission and the mysteries of Phobos and Deimos
06:00 - How the mission will study Phobos and attempt to collect samples
12:00 - The challenges of landing on Phobos and the planned sample return to Earth
15:45 - A Marsquake traced to Valles Marineris
19:30 - What the quake reveals about Mars’ geological activity
22:00 - Saudi Arabia’s new observatory and the Laser SETI search
26:00 - How optical detectors could look for signals from extraterrestrial intelligence
29:00 - Closing thoughts and listener engagement
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00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Andrew Dunkley: Hi there. Thanks for joining us again on
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 Space Nuts, uh, where we talk astronomy and
00:00:05 --> 00:00:07 space science. My name is Andrew Dunkley.
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 Good to have your company. On this episode.
00:00:11 --> 00:00:13 We will be looking at Mars a couple
00:00:13 --> 00:00:16 of times from, from a couple of different
00:00:16 --> 00:00:18 angles. Uh, and the first story
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 will be Japan's mission to Mars.
00:00:22 --> 00:00:23 But they're not landing on the planet.
00:00:23 --> 00:00:26 They're going to drop a bomb. Well,
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28 actually, it won't be. Uh, they're going to
00:00:28 --> 00:00:31 drop something onto Phobos. Uh, why,
00:00:31 --> 00:00:34 we'll tell you. And, uh, in
00:00:34 --> 00:00:36 the past, we've talked about, uh, these
00:00:36 --> 00:00:39 mysterious Mars quakes. Well,
00:00:39 --> 00:00:42 they think they might have figured out part
00:00:42 --> 00:00:45 of the reason. The largest canyon,
00:00:45 --> 00:00:48 uh, on Mars, or we should probably say in
00:00:48 --> 00:00:51 Mars, uh, seems to still be having an effect
00:00:51 --> 00:00:54 on the red planet all these years later.
00:00:55 --> 00:00:57 And who's started looking for, et cetera,
00:00:58 --> 00:01:01 Saudi Arabia. We'll tell you all about it on
00:01:01 --> 00:01:02 this episode of space nuts.
00:01:03 --> 00:01:05 Professor Fred Watson: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.
00:01:05 --> 00:01:08 10, 9. Ignition
00:01:08 --> 00:01:09 sequence time.
00:01:09 --> 00:01:10 Professor Fred Watson: Space nuts.
00:01:10 --> 00:01:13 Professor Fred Watson: 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. 3, 3, 4,
00:01:13 --> 00:01:15 5, 5, 4, 3, 2', 1.
00:01:15 --> 00:01:16 Andrew Dunkley: Space nuts.
00:01:16 --> 00:01:18 Professor Fred Watson: Astronauts report it feels good.
00:01:19 --> 00:01:22 Andrew Dunkley: And joining us as always, is Professor
00:01:22 --> 00:01:24 Fred Watson Watson, astronomer at large.
00:01:24 --> 00:01:25 Hello, Fred Watson.
00:01:25 --> 00:01:27 Professor Fred Watson: Hello. Hello, Andrew. It seems like only
00:01:27 --> 00:01:28 yesterday, but it wasn't.
00:01:29 --> 00:01:31 Andrew Dunkley: No, it's been. It's been about four weeks
00:01:32 --> 00:01:33 or something like three or four weeks
00:01:33 --> 00:01:36 because, um, Judy and I have, um, been
00:01:36 --> 00:01:39 gallivanting again. Uh, we
00:01:39 --> 00:01:42 visited the former Yugoslavia, um,
00:01:42 --> 00:01:45 now known as the Balkans. Uh, but they're
00:01:45 --> 00:01:47 all independent nations now post the,
00:01:48 --> 00:01:50 um. I, um, don't know what you call it. The
00:01:50 --> 00:01:53 communist regime. I
00:01:53 --> 00:01:56 hate that word. But anyway, um, so we. We
00:01:56 --> 00:01:58 visited, uh, Croatia, Slovenia,
00:01:59 --> 00:02:02 Montenegro, Bosnia and
00:02:02 --> 00:02:03 Herzegovina,
00:02:05 --> 00:02:06 North Macedonia,
00:02:07 --> 00:02:10 Albania and Bulgaria. Hey, I got them
00:02:10 --> 00:02:13 all seven countries. And, uh,
00:02:13 --> 00:02:16 it's, um.
00:02:16 --> 00:02:18 It's obviously formally,
00:02:18 --> 00:02:21 um, a communist state. When you look at the.
00:02:21 --> 00:02:23 The real estate, um,
00:02:24 --> 00:02:26 those big blocky Eastern
00:02:27 --> 00:02:29 communist apartments,
00:02:30 --> 00:02:32 um, in some parts of the world. But
00:02:33 --> 00:02:36 just beautiful countryside, beautiful lakes
00:02:36 --> 00:02:39 and. And river systems. Um, saw one
00:02:39 --> 00:02:41 of the most famous bridges in the world,
00:02:41 --> 00:02:44 which, uh, Red Bull uses for part of its
00:02:44 --> 00:02:46 world championship diving competitions. Um,
00:02:47 --> 00:02:50 that was in a little town in
00:02:50 --> 00:02:53 Montenegro, I think. Or was it Bosnia? I
00:02:53 --> 00:02:55 can't remember. Um, and,
00:02:55 --> 00:02:58 um. But we also saw abject
00:02:58 --> 00:03:00 poverty, um, beggars on the
00:03:00 --> 00:03:03 streets, filth everywhere. Uh, Albania's got
00:03:03 --> 00:03:05 a lot of catching up to do with the rest of
00:03:05 --> 00:03:08 the world, very sadly. But, um, I'm
00:03:08 --> 00:03:11 glad we went. I don't know if I'd
00:03:11 --> 00:03:14 go back. Um, did you
00:03:14 --> 00:03:14 go.
00:03:14 --> 00:03:15 Professor Fred Watson: Did you go up to Bled?
00:03:16 --> 00:03:17 Andrew Dunkley: Yes. Yes.
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19 Professor Fred Watson: You Did. Yeah. So that's,
00:03:19 --> 00:03:21 um, very different from the
00:03:21 --> 00:03:23 scenario you've described down, uh, in the
00:03:23 --> 00:03:23 south.
00:03:24 --> 00:03:26 Andrew Dunkley: Oh, absolutely. And that's the thing. It's.
00:03:26 --> 00:03:28 It's like a few countries we've been to in
00:03:28 --> 00:03:31 recent years. In the north, it's completely
00:03:31 --> 00:03:32 different. To the south.
00:03:32 --> 00:03:33 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:03:33 --> 00:03:35 Andrew Dunkley: Although in the former Yugoslavia, it's the
00:03:35 --> 00:03:37 other way up the. The good stuff's up the
00:03:37 --> 00:03:37 north.
00:03:37 --> 00:03:40 Professor Fred Watson: It is. That's right. With
00:03:40 --> 00:03:42 Ljubljana and, um. And
00:03:43 --> 00:03:46 Slovenia. So, um, one of my claims to
00:03:46 --> 00:03:48 fame is that I bled in. Bled.
00:03:49 --> 00:03:52 And it's because, uh, on the shoreline
00:03:52 --> 00:03:55 of Lake Bled is the former
00:03:55 --> 00:03:58 residence of President Tito when he was
00:03:58 --> 00:04:00 the head of the Yugoslav,
00:04:00 --> 00:04:03 um, consortium, I suppose, collaboration.
00:04:03 --> 00:04:06 Uh, and my colleague in Ljubljana,
00:04:06 --> 00:04:08 a really good friend, Thomas Witter,
00:04:09 --> 00:04:11 um, dropped me off at the top of the property
00:04:11 --> 00:04:14 that. This. That Tito used to
00:04:14 --> 00:04:17 have and said, you can walk down through the
00:04:17 --> 00:04:20 property. I think it's a sort of museum now.
00:04:20 --> 00:04:21 And he said, there'll be a gate at the bottom
00:04:22 --> 00:04:24 and that'll bring you out onto the lake, and
00:04:24 --> 00:04:27 I'll be parked nearby. So, um, me and
00:04:27 --> 00:04:30 a colleague walked down this long, long hill
00:04:30 --> 00:04:32 through a forest. It was. Beautiful place.
00:04:32 --> 00:04:33 Andrew Dunkley: It is stunning.
00:04:33 --> 00:04:35 Professor Fred Watson: No sign of a gate at the bottom, but there
00:04:35 --> 00:04:38 was this fence, an iron fence,
00:04:38 --> 00:04:41 and, um, I forgot that I was then
00:04:41 --> 00:04:44 probably 30 years older than my colleague.
00:04:44 --> 00:04:45 And I said, oh, yeah, I can shin over that.
00:04:45 --> 00:04:48 That's fine. Uh, yes, I did.
00:04:48 --> 00:04:48 Andrew Dunkley: Um.
00:04:48 --> 00:04:51 Professor Fred Watson: But, um, my foot slipped and I
00:04:51 --> 00:04:54 basically impaled myself on the spikes at the
00:04:54 --> 00:04:57 top of this thing. It was only a
00:04:57 --> 00:04:59 flesh wound, I have to say, but,
00:05:00 --> 00:05:02 um, I had blood all over my shirt.
00:05:02 --> 00:05:05 And, um, Thomas was mortified when he picked
00:05:05 --> 00:05:07 us up. We did get over the fence and got
00:05:07 --> 00:05:08 picked up, but I was getting on the plane to
00:05:08 --> 00:05:11 Sydney that night, and I thought, I can't
00:05:11 --> 00:05:14 really fly back to Sydney with looking as
00:05:14 --> 00:05:17 though somebody just shot me. Um, so I had to
00:05:17 --> 00:05:18 try and find somewhere to change, which I
00:05:18 --> 00:05:20 did, but then the flight was cancelled. I
00:05:20 --> 00:05:22 don't think I went. There were, um, French
00:05:22 --> 00:05:25 traffic controllers were on strike. Uh,
00:05:25 --> 00:05:27 anyway, it was, um. Yeah. So every
00:05:27 --> 00:05:30 time I think of Blade, I think of bleeding
00:05:30 --> 00:05:32 there. But as you will have seen, it's
00:05:32 --> 00:05:35 straight out of a Disney cartoon with that
00:05:35 --> 00:05:37 astonishing castle on the lakeside, the
00:05:37 --> 00:05:39 island in the middle and beautiful place,
00:05:40 --> 00:05:42 Andrew Dunkley: and some amazing caves we went to as
00:05:42 --> 00:05:43 well.
00:05:43 --> 00:05:43 Professor Fred Watson: Yes.
00:05:43 --> 00:05:46 Andrew Dunkley: Um, at one stage. And you get in by
00:05:46 --> 00:05:49 train, get on a tiny little train to go into
00:05:49 --> 00:05:51 the. Is it just. Yes.
00:05:52 --> 00:05:54 Um. But, uh, what I did learn about Albania
00:05:54 --> 00:05:57 was, um, that they were under the tyrannical
00:05:57 --> 00:06:00 rule of a dictator for 50 years who ban
00:06:00 --> 00:06:03 religion and was so paranoid about
00:06:03 --> 00:06:06 the country being invaded he was planning to
00:06:06 --> 00:06:08 build 800 military bunkers around its
00:06:08 --> 00:06:11 border. He didn't get that job done before
00:06:11 --> 00:06:14 he passed away, but, um, they built 300
00:06:14 --> 00:06:16 of them and you can see them dotted all over
00:06:16 --> 00:06:19 the place. Just these, these igloo
00:06:19 --> 00:06:21 like bunkers ready to defend the country from
00:06:22 --> 00:06:24 invisible invaders. Strange.
00:06:24 --> 00:06:26 And they're still trying to recover from
00:06:26 --> 00:06:28 those 50 years. That's, that's, that's a
00:06:28 --> 00:06:31 tragedy of it all. I could talk forever and I
00:06:31 --> 00:06:34 probably will. But, uh, let's, let's, let's
00:06:34 --> 00:06:37 get down to business, Fred Watson. And what
00:06:37 --> 00:06:37 was it again?
00:06:38 --> 00:06:38 Professor Fred Watson: I can't remember.
00:06:38 --> 00:06:41 Andrew Dunkley: That was so long ago. Our first story takes
00:06:41 --> 00:06:44 us to the Mars,
00:06:45 --> 00:06:48 um, system, uh, in our own solar system,
00:06:48 --> 00:06:51 but more specifically Phobos. The Japanese
00:06:51 --> 00:06:54 have launched a massive mission to get
00:06:54 --> 00:06:56 there. It's costing them a fortune, a couple
00:06:56 --> 00:06:59 of, uh, quadrillion yen, I
00:06:59 --> 00:07:02 imagine. But this, this is already, uh,
00:07:02 --> 00:07:04 lifted off as far as I can tell.
00:07:04 --> 00:07:04 Professor Fred Watson: Um.
00:07:04 --> 00:07:06 Professor Fred Watson: This week, was it this last week?
00:07:06 --> 00:07:09 Andrew Dunkley: Last week. Last week. And yeah, it's on
00:07:09 --> 00:07:11 its way. And, and they're, they're looking
00:07:11 --> 00:07:14 specifically at um, the Martian moon
00:07:14 --> 00:07:15 Phobos.
00:07:16 --> 00:07:19 Professor Fred Watson: So, um, you're absolutely right. Uh,
00:07:19 --> 00:07:22 it's called the MMX Mission, the
00:07:22 --> 00:07:24 Martian Moons Explorer. It's the
00:07:24 --> 00:07:27 Japanese, uh,
00:07:27 --> 00:07:29 Aerospace Exploration Agency,
00:07:30 --> 00:07:33 uh, who are running this, um, very,
00:07:33 --> 00:07:36 very capable organisation. Um,
00:07:37 --> 00:07:40 uh, and launched um, actually a week ago last
00:07:40 --> 00:07:43 Monday, as we speak today. Um,
00:07:43 --> 00:07:46 and yeah, it's going to both, uh, in a sense
00:07:46 --> 00:07:48 it's going to both Martian moons. So the two
00:07:48 --> 00:07:50 moons of Mars, Phobos and Deimos,
00:07:50 --> 00:07:53 Greek for fear and dread.
00:07:53 --> 00:07:56 Um, perfect. That's how they were named
00:07:56 --> 00:07:57 because they were named in the. I think it
00:07:57 --> 00:07:59 was the 1870s when they were found. And Mars,
00:07:59 --> 00:08:01 of course, the God of war. So fear and dread
00:08:01 --> 00:08:04 were very appropriate as their, as
00:08:04 --> 00:08:07 their, um, as their moon names. But they're
00:08:07 --> 00:08:09 tiny moons. They're 23
00:08:10 --> 00:08:12 kilometres across and 14
00:08:12 --> 00:08:15 kilometres across, respectively. Phobos being
00:08:15 --> 00:08:18 the biggest. But they're both puzzles, uh,
00:08:18 --> 00:08:21 Andrew, because we, we don't really know
00:08:21 --> 00:08:23 how they formed. And their
00:08:23 --> 00:08:26 formation might well give us more
00:08:26 --> 00:08:28 clues to the way the solar system
00:08:29 --> 00:08:29 evolved.
00:08:30 --> 00:08:33 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, one strong theory is that they
00:08:33 --> 00:08:36 Professor Fred Watson: were actually captured, yeah, possibly
00:08:36 --> 00:08:38 captured asteroids, given that, you know,
00:08:38 --> 00:08:39 Mars is on the inner edge of the asteroid
00:08:39 --> 00:08:42 belt, the main asteroid belt. So that's
00:08:42 --> 00:08:45 possible. But you need, um, you need,
00:08:45 --> 00:08:48 you do need some special
00:08:48 --> 00:08:51 conditions to capture an asteroid. Uh,
00:08:51 --> 00:08:54 it's quite hard to do with just the gravity
00:08:54 --> 00:08:56 of the planet alone. Unless it really sort of
00:08:56 --> 00:08:59 swooped in very low and was decelerated by
00:08:59 --> 00:09:01 the atmosphere or something and then, you
00:09:01 --> 00:09:04 know, captured in that way. Another way that
00:09:04 --> 00:09:06 you could do it is if, uh,
00:09:06 --> 00:09:09 Phobos, for example, had originally been
00:09:09 --> 00:09:12 part of a binary asteroid. So two
00:09:12 --> 00:09:15 small asteroids in orbit around one another.
00:09:15 --> 00:09:17 And we know there are plenty of examples of
00:09:17 --> 00:09:18 those. We've talked about them. Asteroids
00:09:18 --> 00:09:20 with moons. And then what could happen is
00:09:20 --> 00:09:23 that, um, one of them could get ejected and
00:09:23 --> 00:09:26 the other get sucked into the orbit of, uh,
00:09:26 --> 00:09:28 being in orbit around Mars. That would have
00:09:28 --> 00:09:30 been another way. But yes, some people think
00:09:30 --> 00:09:32 that they perhaps might have been formed or
00:09:33 --> 00:09:36 some people think it's another suggestion as
00:09:36 --> 00:09:38 to the origin of these two worlds, that they
00:09:38 --> 00:09:40 were actually formed along with Mars,
00:09:41 --> 00:09:44 um, when Mars was formed just, um, as
00:09:44 --> 00:09:46 part of debris, leftover debris from the
00:09:46 --> 00:09:48 formation of the planet. And I guess the
00:09:48 --> 00:09:51 third theory is that they have an origin
00:09:51 --> 00:09:53 similar to our moon in that something big
00:09:53 --> 00:09:56 collided with Mars. And this is the debris of
00:09:56 --> 00:09:59 that coalesced into a single object. And
00:09:59 --> 00:10:01 in some ways that's quite an attractive
00:10:01 --> 00:10:04 theory because, um, we know that these
00:10:04 --> 00:10:07 moons are very. They're not very dense.
00:10:07 --> 00:10:07 Andrew Dunkley: They're, uh.
00:10:07 --> 00:10:10 Professor Fred Watson: They're, you know, they're quite lightweight.
00:10:10 --> 00:10:12 Think, um, of a piece of pumice or something
00:10:12 --> 00:10:15 like that. Um, which suggests that
00:10:15 --> 00:10:17 they are. That they've got a lot of empty
00:10:17 --> 00:10:20 space in between rocks and things.
00:10:21 --> 00:10:23 It might mean that they're actually
00:10:23 --> 00:10:25 rubble piles. And we know there are many
00:10:25 --> 00:10:28 examples of rubble piles in the asteroid
00:10:28 --> 00:10:28 world.
00:10:29 --> 00:10:29 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah.
00:10:29 --> 00:10:32 Professor Fred Watson: So great interest in it. And, uh, you and I,
00:10:32 --> 00:10:35 I'm sure, covered it back in 2011,
00:10:36 --> 00:10:38 uh, when it was launched. And that was the
00:10:38 --> 00:10:41 original Russian mission to
00:10:41 --> 00:10:43 Phobos, uh, which was called
00:10:43 --> 00:10:45 Phobos Grant. Do you remember that? Yes,
00:10:45 --> 00:10:48 that's right. Uh, grunt being the word for
00:10:48 --> 00:10:50 ground or Earth, uh, or. Well, basically
00:10:50 --> 00:10:53 soil. Uh, and Phobos grunt didn't get
00:10:53 --> 00:10:55 beyond Earth orbit. It was a. I think it was
00:10:55 --> 00:10:58 carried aloft on a Chinese Long March
00:10:58 --> 00:11:00 rocket, if I remember right. They can't
00:11:00 --> 00:11:02 remember exactly the details, but yeah, it
00:11:02 --> 00:11:04 never left Earth, uh, orbit and eventually
00:11:04 --> 00:11:07 was deorbited and. And um, basically burned
00:11:07 --> 00:11:07 up.
00:11:08 --> 00:11:10 Uh, I think there was two earlier Soviet
00:11:10 --> 00:11:11 missions as well to try and send things to
00:11:11 --> 00:11:14 Phobos. But so it's been a. It's been very
00:11:14 --> 00:11:16 much on people's bucket list for a long time.
00:11:16 --> 00:11:19 And maybe now we are see, seeing,
00:11:19 --> 00:11:21 um, this, uh, wish of
00:11:22 --> 00:11:25 humankind to get Near Phobos, ah,
00:11:25 --> 00:11:27 actually unfold in reality with a, with
00:11:27 --> 00:11:30 a complex suite of,
00:11:31 --> 00:11:33 of vehicles. I guess there's a, there's a
00:11:33 --> 00:11:36 main spacecraft uh, which is fitted
00:11:36 --> 00:11:39 with solar panels, um, that will
00:11:39 --> 00:11:41 initially go into, into orbit
00:11:41 --> 00:11:44 around Mars. Not Phobos. Phobos is
00:11:44 --> 00:11:47 too, it has too little gravity to
00:11:47 --> 00:11:49 put anything in a stable orbit around. It
00:11:49 --> 00:11:51 would just get sucked away by Mars.
00:11:51 --> 00:11:51 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah.
00:11:51 --> 00:11:53 Professor Fred Watson: So they'll be in an orbit around Mars, but
00:11:53 --> 00:11:56 one that brings them close to both Phobos and
00:11:56 --> 00:11:58 Deimos. So we can get lots of close up images
00:11:58 --> 00:12:01 and things of that sort. Uh, so it's going to
00:12:01 --> 00:12:03 take about 10 months to get there. Uh, and
00:12:03 --> 00:12:05 then something like three years of this
00:12:05 --> 00:12:07 orbiting, um,
00:12:07 --> 00:12:09 um, uh, characteristic,
00:12:10 --> 00:12:12 lots of imagery, looking for landing sites,
00:12:12 --> 00:12:15 things of that sort because uh, this
00:12:15 --> 00:12:16 thing will actually land. There are two
00:12:16 --> 00:12:19 landers. There's a little shoebox sized
00:12:19 --> 00:12:21 French rover, I think it might be French and
00:12:21 --> 00:12:24 German I think, uh, space agencies who have
00:12:24 --> 00:12:26 collaborated on that. This is a rover that
00:12:26 --> 00:12:29 will, it's got wheels and it'll try
00:12:29 --> 00:12:31 and rover around Phobos. But if it is really
00:12:31 --> 00:12:33 just a rubble pile, I think it's going to
00:12:33 --> 00:12:35 struggle with that. Um, and the other thing
00:12:35 --> 00:12:38 about Phobos of course is it's got negligible
00:12:38 --> 00:12:40 gravity. Gravity is a thousandth of what it
00:12:40 --> 00:12:43 is here on Earth. Wow. And so the trick
00:12:43 --> 00:12:45 in getting anything onto the surface is to
00:12:45 --> 00:12:47 stop it bouncing off so it just disappears
00:12:47 --> 00:12:47 into space.
00:12:48 --> 00:12:50 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. Um, you wouldn't want to fart, would
00:12:50 --> 00:12:50 you?
00:12:51 --> 00:12:54 Professor Fred Watson: No, you wouldn't. That would almost do it,
00:12:54 --> 00:12:57 Andrew. Um, this, the average escape
00:12:57 --> 00:12:59 velocity on Phobos is 40
00:12:59 --> 00:13:01 kilometres an hour. So you could almost do it
00:13:01 --> 00:13:03 on your bike, you know.
00:13:03 --> 00:13:05 Andrew Dunkley: That's the fastest I ever rode a bike as a
00:13:05 --> 00:13:06 kid.
00:13:06 --> 00:13:09 Professor Fred Watson: Is it 40? Actually, yeah. I ride mine
00:13:09 --> 00:13:10 at more than 40. There's a bit of a hill
00:13:10 --> 00:13:10 here.
00:13:10 --> 00:13:13 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, but mine was an old clunker. Uh, it
00:13:13 --> 00:13:15 wasn't a, it wasn't a racing bike.
00:13:16 --> 00:13:16 Professor Fred Watson: Neither's mine.
00:13:16 --> 00:13:18 Anyway, never mind that. That's all right.
00:13:18 --> 00:13:19 Andrew Dunkley: You get a tailwind too.
00:13:19 --> 00:13:22 Professor Fred Watson: We could, both of us could escape
00:13:22 --> 00:13:24 the, the clutches of Phobos's uh,
00:13:25 --> 00:13:28 gravity. Um, and then the, the sort of
00:13:28 --> 00:13:31 grand, sort of grand finale, if I can
00:13:31 --> 00:13:33 put it that way, of the mission is that the,
00:13:33 --> 00:13:35 the spacecraft itself will land on
00:13:35 --> 00:13:38 Phobos with um, two sample
00:13:39 --> 00:13:41 pickup mechanisms. One is a drill. They'll,
00:13:41 --> 00:13:44 they'll actually do a um, core sample if
00:13:44 --> 00:13:47 there's enough solid stuff to drill a core
00:13:47 --> 00:13:50 into or out of. Uh, and a
00:13:50 --> 00:13:53 thing that um, will blast nitrogen
00:13:53 --> 00:13:56 onto the surface so it'll raise a cloud of
00:13:56 --> 00:13:59 dust and the spacecraft will collect the
00:13:59 --> 00:14:01 dust and then a capsule will return to Earth,
00:14:01 --> 00:14:04 uh, and it will re. Enter the Earth's
00:14:04 --> 00:14:05 atmosphere and land in Australia.
00:14:06 --> 00:14:09 Uh, so we're going to be the um,
00:14:09 --> 00:14:11 nation that picks it up. The Australian Space
00:14:11 --> 00:14:14 Agency is liaising with jaxa, ah, on that
00:14:14 --> 00:14:17 issue. And of course that builds on. And in a
00:14:17 --> 00:14:19 sense the whole mission builds on expert
00:14:19 --> 00:14:22 experience that, um, the
00:14:22 --> 00:14:25 Japan Space Agency has gathered with their
00:14:25 --> 00:14:27 two missions to asteroids
00:14:27 --> 00:14:30 Hayabusa1 and Hayabusa2, which brought back
00:14:30 --> 00:14:32 samples. Both of them successfully returned
00:14:32 --> 00:14:35 samples of, uh. Was it
00:14:35 --> 00:14:38 Itokawa and Ryugu? I think were the two,
00:14:39 --> 00:14:42 uh, asteroids. Um, and so we've got samples
00:14:42 --> 00:14:44 from those asteroids now in, uh, Earth
00:14:44 --> 00:14:47 Laboratories. And they too, uh, landed
00:14:47 --> 00:14:49 those sample capsules in Western Australia.
00:14:49 --> 00:14:50 Andrew Dunkley: That's right.
00:14:50 --> 00:14:51 Professor Fred Watson: Sorry, I beg your pardon. South Australia.
00:14:51 --> 00:14:54 Andrew Dunkley: They love dropping their junk on our, on our.
00:14:54 --> 00:14:56 Professor Fred Watson: I think it's a bit more precious than junk
00:14:56 --> 00:14:58 though. We could snaffle it and become world
00:14:58 --> 00:15:00 famous by analysing all their data.
00:15:00 --> 00:15:01 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, that's a possibility.
00:15:01 --> 00:15:04 I'm fascinated by the spacecraft itself.
00:15:04 --> 00:15:07 It's about nine, nine hundred pounds or four
00:15:07 --> 00:15:10 and a half metric tons, two thirds
00:15:10 --> 00:15:11 of which is propellant.
00:15:11 --> 00:15:14 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's about astonishing. Typical.
00:15:14 --> 00:15:15 Yeah, it's fairly typical.
00:15:15 --> 00:15:18 Andrew Dunkley: Is it really? Uh, gosh, I've never
00:15:18 --> 00:15:19 seen the breakdowns
00:15:19 --> 00:15:22 Professor Fred Watson: really, but usually, um, there's more
00:15:22 --> 00:15:24 propellant than anything. Oh, I mean just
00:15:24 --> 00:15:26 think of the, um, of the Saturn 5.
00:15:27 --> 00:15:29 Of course, not much of. Not much of it was
00:15:29 --> 00:15:30 not propellant.
00:15:30 --> 00:15:31 Andrew Dunkley: No. Uh, just the, the nose.
00:15:32 --> 00:15:33 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's basically.
00:15:33 --> 00:15:35 Andrew Dunkley: And the command module.
00:15:36 --> 00:15:36 Yes.
00:15:36 --> 00:15:37 Professor Fred Watson: All right.
00:15:37 --> 00:15:39 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, it's going to be a fascinating journey
00:15:39 --> 00:15:42 and we will be able to keep you up to
00:15:42 --> 00:15:45 date with, um, what happens in about 10
00:15:45 --> 00:15:48 months time when they finally get there. It's
00:15:48 --> 00:15:49 a long, long trip.
00:15:50 --> 00:15:52 Professor Fred Watson: Um, I think. Yeah. Sorry, Andrew.
00:15:52 --> 00:15:53 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I was going to say, I can't believe
00:15:53 --> 00:15:54 they're thinking of sending people there with
00:15:54 --> 00:15:57 that. Like I did 30 hours to Zagreb
00:15:57 --> 00:16:00 and yeah, I couldn't stand it
00:16:01 --> 00:16:04 being put in a tinier, tinier module
00:16:04 --> 00:16:07 to travel for, you know, six months.
00:16:08 --> 00:16:09 Horrifying.
00:16:09 --> 00:16:11 Professor Fred Watson: We're a long way from that. I think despite
00:16:11 --> 00:16:14 what, um, some enthusiastic people think,
00:16:15 --> 00:16:17 um, uh, just to tie up the loose
00:16:17 --> 00:16:20 end, uh, we expect the sample return to be
00:16:20 --> 00:16:23 in 2031. So in five years time
00:16:23 --> 00:16:25 we hopefully we'll still be going strong by
00:16:25 --> 00:16:26 then. You never know.
00:16:26 --> 00:16:27 Andrew Dunkley: I hope so.
00:16:27 --> 00:16:30 Professor Fred Watson: Um, the other point could
00:16:30 --> 00:16:30 answer some
00:16:30 --> 00:16:32 Andrew Dunkley: of those really interesting Questions about
00:16:32 --> 00:16:35 Mars and the origin of the. Of the moons
00:16:35 --> 00:16:37 and maybe, maybe even the planet. I don't
00:16:37 --> 00:16:40 know if it depends what they're made of.
00:16:41 --> 00:16:42 Professor Fred Watson: That's correct.
00:16:42 --> 00:16:45 Um, uh, it might also.
00:16:45 --> 00:16:48 So people have talked about the first human
00:16:48 --> 00:16:50 mission to Mars actually being to land on
00:16:50 --> 00:16:53 Phobos. Uh, and the reason for that is, of
00:16:53 --> 00:16:55 course, it's much easier to land on a small
00:16:55 --> 00:16:57 body and take off again from it than it is on
00:16:57 --> 00:17:00 a big one like Mars. Uh, whether that's still
00:17:00 --> 00:17:02 considered a realistic possibility, I don't
00:17:02 --> 00:17:04 know. I think we're still a long way from
00:17:04 --> 00:17:07 sending people into the, um,
00:17:07 --> 00:17:08 orbital sphere of Mars.
00:17:09 --> 00:17:12 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. But, yeah, I consider logic in that.
00:17:12 --> 00:17:15 Land on Phobos or demos and then just drop a
00:17:15 --> 00:17:18 rope. Cheaper way to
00:17:18 --> 00:17:18 get down.
00:17:18 --> 00:17:21 Professor Fred Watson: I think if you tried to. I think if you tried
00:17:21 --> 00:17:23 to land on demos, you'd just knock it out of
00:17:23 --> 00:17:24 the way. Yeah, you might
00:17:26 --> 00:17:28 even the softest touch to get bring it down
00:17:28 --> 00:17:30 and you. Oh, damn it. It's gone.
00:17:32 --> 00:17:34 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, scary stuff. Um, if you want to read
00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 about it, uh, there's a great article on the
00:17:37 --> 00:17:39 arstechnica. Um.com
00:17:39 --> 00:17:42 website. Um. Yeah, that's right.
00:17:43 --> 00:17:45 This is Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley and
00:17:45 --> 00:17:47 Professor Fred Watson Watson.
00:17:51 --> 00:17:53 Space Nuts to our next story,
00:17:54 --> 00:17:57 Fred Watson, uh, which, uh,
00:17:57 --> 00:17:59 continues. Our look at Mars and
00:18:00 --> 00:18:03 the. The geography of Mars astounds me. It's
00:18:03 --> 00:18:05 a smaller planet than Earth, but it's got
00:18:05 --> 00:18:07 bigger stuff. It's like it's saying, okay,
00:18:07 --> 00:18:10 yeah, yeah, you're bigger, but I've got
00:18:10 --> 00:18:11 bigger stuff than you.
00:18:11 --> 00:18:12 Your Grand Canyon.
00:18:14 --> 00:18:16 Yeah, I can fit that into my little finger.
00:18:17 --> 00:18:20 Uh, and it's got the, the biggest mountain in
00:18:20 --> 00:18:22 the solar system, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah,
00:18:22 --> 00:18:25 yeah. Puffing its chest up. And I'm red
00:18:25 --> 00:18:27 and you're not. Uh, it's
00:18:28 --> 00:18:30 going to. It's made the news again now
00:18:30 --> 00:18:32 because they have, um. We've talked about in
00:18:32 --> 00:18:35 the past how, um, Mars has been
00:18:36 --> 00:18:39 kind of making noise. There's been
00:18:39 --> 00:18:41 Mars quakes, and they've been trying to
00:18:41 --> 00:18:43 figure out why this could be a
00:18:44 --> 00:18:46 contributing factor. And it all comes down to
00:18:46 --> 00:18:47 that massive canyon.
00:18:48 --> 00:18:51 Professor Fred Watson: Indeed. That's right. So, uh, you're right.
00:18:51 --> 00:18:53 We have talked about earthquakes. And
00:18:54 --> 00:18:57 the reason we know that they exist is because
00:18:57 --> 00:19:00 there was a lander. It's probably still
00:19:00 --> 00:19:03 there, but it's now defunct. Uh, a NASA
00:19:03 --> 00:19:05 lander called Insight, uh, which,
00:19:05 --> 00:19:08 um, basically was
00:19:08 --> 00:19:11 around in the early, sort of
00:19:11 --> 00:19:14 M, mid, uh, 2010s to
00:19:14 --> 00:19:15 early 2020s
00:19:16 --> 00:19:18 M. And insight
00:19:19 --> 00:19:21 was, uh, basically looking at the interior of
00:19:21 --> 00:19:24 Mars. So it had a very accurate seismometer.
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27 And actually um, I think we covered this
00:19:27 --> 00:19:30 in detail. It had a thermometer
00:19:30 --> 00:19:32 to try and measure the amount of heat
00:19:32 --> 00:19:34 radiation coming from the interior of Mars.
00:19:34 --> 00:19:36 But they couldn't, they never managed to dig
00:19:36 --> 00:19:39 the hole, drill a hole deep enough for it
00:19:39 --> 00:19:42 to be used in. So I think that part of it
00:19:42 --> 00:19:45 was never successful, but the seismometer
00:19:45 --> 00:19:47 was very successful. And so,
00:19:48 --> 00:19:50 um, what's happened now is that. So the
00:19:50 --> 00:19:52 INSIGHT is no longer operational, but it
00:19:52 --> 00:19:55 collected all these data on temperature
00:19:55 --> 00:19:58 and the seismic records,
00:19:59 --> 00:20:02 basically recording Marsquakes. And
00:20:02 --> 00:20:04 of course with earthquakes the
00:20:04 --> 00:20:07 seismometry is the same on Earth. Uh, the
00:20:07 --> 00:20:09 devil is in the detail. It's the detail of
00:20:09 --> 00:20:12 these disturbances that you uh,
00:20:12 --> 00:20:14 can, um, use to sort of pick out the,
00:20:15 --> 00:20:18 all the, the fine details of what's, where
00:20:18 --> 00:20:20 this has come from, uh, what it's passed
00:20:20 --> 00:20:22 through on its journey through the interior
00:20:22 --> 00:20:25 of Mars and other issues.
00:20:25 --> 00:20:27 So, um, what.
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30 That's a complicated way of saying that
00:20:30 --> 00:20:32 people are still studying these seismic
00:20:32 --> 00:20:35 records from InSight. Yeah. Uh, and in fact
00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 one in particular, one seismic event.
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 And I love the fact that these things have
00:20:40 --> 00:20:41 names. It's called
00:20:41 --> 00:20:44 S0976A. Uh,
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46 that's a seismic event which was recorded on
00:20:46 --> 00:20:48 the 25th of August 2021.
00:20:49 --> 00:20:52 Um, and it
00:20:52 --> 00:20:55 basically was, uh, unique
00:20:55 --> 00:20:58 in that the characteristics of the
00:20:58 --> 00:21:01 seismic wave tells you that this
00:21:01 --> 00:21:04 thing came from the other side of Mars and
00:21:04 --> 00:21:05 it's the only one that did, the only
00:21:06 --> 00:21:08 Marsquake detected during the whole INSIGHT
00:21:08 --> 00:21:11 mission that you could locate to the
00:21:11 --> 00:21:12 western hemisphere of the planet.
00:21:13 --> 00:21:16 Um, so it now turns
00:21:16 --> 00:21:19 out that it came from, as you said,
00:21:19 --> 00:21:21 the biggest canyon in the solar system.
00:21:21 --> 00:21:24 Valleys Marineris. Uh, Mariner, the
00:21:24 --> 00:21:27 Mariner Valley. It's 3
00:21:27 --> 00:21:28 kilometres long.
00:21:29 --> 00:21:32 Andrew Dunkley: Ten, two times, four times longer than the
00:21:32 --> 00:21:33 Grand Canyon.
00:21:33 --> 00:21:35 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Um, that's extraordinary.
00:21:35 --> 00:21:36 Andrew Dunkley: 20 times wider.
00:21:37 --> 00:21:37 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:21:37 --> 00:21:40 Andrew Dunkley: And just to throw salt into our wounds, um,
00:21:40 --> 00:21:43 twice as deep, nine kilometres deep.
00:21:43 --> 00:21:43 Yeah.
00:21:44 --> 00:21:45 Professor Fred Watson: Yep. Isn't it fantastic?
00:21:45 --> 00:21:48 Andrew Dunkley: Extraordinary place. Yeah, I'd love to go
00:21:48 --> 00:21:49 there and have a look.
00:21:49 --> 00:21:52 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, yes, well, if
00:21:52 --> 00:21:55 Elon Musk has his way, you might get the
00:21:55 --> 00:21:57 opportunity to do that. But I think you might
00:21:57 --> 00:21:59 be long gone by then. Never mind. That's
00:21:59 --> 00:22:02 another story. Yes, um, it is the
00:22:02 --> 00:22:05 largest canyon and so, um, that
00:22:05 --> 00:22:07 it's pinpointed onto that. And the evidence
00:22:07 --> 00:22:10 that comes from the details of this seismic
00:22:10 --> 00:22:13 wave is something called
00:22:13 --> 00:22:16 a strike slip Mars quake. And
00:22:16 --> 00:22:19 so you've got blocks of the crust
00:22:19 --> 00:22:21 of Mars sliding
00:22:21 --> 00:22:24 horizontally past each other, um,
00:22:25 --> 00:22:27 basically along a Very steep, um,
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 and probably very deep fault line.
00:22:31 --> 00:22:34 Uh, now, um, we
00:22:34 --> 00:22:35 know because we've talked about it before,
00:22:36 --> 00:22:38 Mars does not have plate tectonics. So you're
00:22:38 --> 00:22:40 not getting plate tectonic type
00:22:41 --> 00:22:44 Marsquakes all the time. Um, Mars
00:22:44 --> 00:22:46 crust is more like an orange peel than
00:22:46 --> 00:22:49 something broken up into segments. It's
00:22:49 --> 00:22:52 a solid crust. Uh, and we
00:22:52 --> 00:22:55 think that's how in fact the biggest volcano,
00:22:55 --> 00:22:58 volcanic peak in the solar system got
00:22:58 --> 00:23:00 so big, um, because it was above a hotspot
00:23:00 --> 00:23:02 and never moved because there's no plate
00:23:02 --> 00:23:04 tectonics. So it just kept on churning up.
00:23:04 --> 00:23:07 That's um, Olympus Mons, which you referred
00:23:07 --> 00:23:09 to earlier. So. Yeah. So um,
00:23:09 --> 00:23:12 that's interesting. So what it's saying,
00:23:13 --> 00:23:15 uh, and I guess this is the kind of headline
00:23:15 --> 00:23:18 that Mars is still tectonically active
00:23:19 --> 00:23:22 even um, though it's, it's not got
00:23:22 --> 00:23:25 plate tectonics. Plate tectonics, remember,
00:23:25 --> 00:23:28 are driven by convection currents in the,
00:23:28 --> 00:23:30 in the mantle of the uh, Earth, the bit below
00:23:30 --> 00:23:33 the sort of softish plasticky rock that's
00:23:33 --> 00:23:35 below the, the, the crust.
00:23:36 --> 00:23:38 Uh, Mars has a mantle, but it's not one
00:23:38 --> 00:23:41 that's driving plate tectonic mechanisms.
00:23:41 --> 00:23:43 Although, you know,
00:23:44 --> 00:23:46 maybe, maybe it is. Maybe there's
00:23:46 --> 00:23:49 um, there's these convection currents in that
00:23:49 --> 00:23:51 that can sort of slip and
00:23:51 --> 00:23:54 slide the blocks of the crust itself,
00:23:54 --> 00:23:57 uh, in that horizontal fault line that we
00:23:57 --> 00:24:00 just talked about. Interesting stuff. I think
00:24:00 --> 00:24:02 it's um, rather, uh,
00:24:02 --> 00:24:04 rather you know,
00:24:05 --> 00:24:08 compelling evidence that Mars is not as dead
00:24:08 --> 00:24:09 as we thought it was.
00:24:10 --> 00:24:13 That there's stuff going on, uh, and
00:24:13 --> 00:24:15 maybe some of these faults are quite
00:24:15 --> 00:24:16 geologically active.
00:24:17 --> 00:24:18 Andrew Dunkley: Yes. And
00:24:20 --> 00:24:23 uh, I'm thrilled because as you know, I'm
00:24:23 --> 00:24:25 a big fan of the planet. I think it's
00:24:25 --> 00:24:27 probably one of the most interesting places
00:24:27 --> 00:24:29 in the solar system, aside from
00:24:29 --> 00:24:32 Earth. I mean we've got so much more going on
00:24:32 --> 00:24:34 here than anywhere else I suppose with all
00:24:34 --> 00:24:37 the proliferation of life.
00:24:37 --> 00:24:40 But Mars, Mars is.
00:24:40 --> 00:24:43 Yeah, it's in a category all
00:24:43 --> 00:24:46 on its own really as a rocky planet, I think.
00:24:46 --> 00:24:46 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:24:47 --> 00:24:49 Andrew Dunkley: And um, deserves a lot of attention
00:24:49 --> 00:24:52 and you know, that we just keep learning.
00:24:52 --> 00:24:55 That's the thing. Um, it's,
00:24:55 --> 00:24:57 it always seems to throw up something new
00:24:57 --> 00:25:00 every time we take a look at it. Yeah. What I
00:25:00 --> 00:25:03 love about it, uh, if you want to read about
00:25:03 --> 00:25:03 that, you can go to the
00:25:03 --> 00:25:07 phys.orgphys.org
00:25:07 --> 00:25:09 article or you can read the entire
00:25:09 --> 00:25:12 5 page, uh, study.
00:25:12 --> 00:25:15 I don't think it's that long. Well
00:25:15 --> 00:25:17 it's two pages long but if you add the
00:25:17 --> 00:25:20 authors. It's 5. Yes, uh, they've
00:25:20 --> 00:25:23 published that in Nature Communications. This
00:25:23 --> 00:25:25 is Space Nuts. Andrew Dunkley here with
00:25:25 --> 00:25:26 Professor Fred Watson Watson.
00:25:31 --> 00:25:34 Space Nuts. Now this made,
00:25:34 --> 00:25:36 um, me do a double take. Fred Watson, this
00:25:36 --> 00:25:39 story. Uh, the Kingdom of Saudi
00:25:39 --> 00:25:42 Arabia is joining in the
00:25:42 --> 00:25:43 search for et,
00:25:43 --> 00:25:46 um, working with SETI by the look of
00:25:46 --> 00:25:48 it. What's this about?
00:25:49 --> 00:25:52 Professor Fred Watson: Well, it's actually about really the stories,
00:25:52 --> 00:25:54 um, in some ways more interesting than that.
00:25:54 --> 00:25:57 Um, because, uh, the Saudis
00:25:57 --> 00:26:00 are uh, setting up a fairly
00:26:00 --> 00:26:03 major observatory. Uh,
00:26:03 --> 00:26:06 and that's. So the
00:26:06 --> 00:26:08 seti, you know, the SETI facility is going to
00:26:08 --> 00:26:10 be a part of that.
00:26:11 --> 00:26:13 Andrew Dunkley: Well, this is, this explains why the live
00:26:13 --> 00:26:16 golf concept is going under. Yes, I've got to
00:26:16 --> 00:26:18 pay for the search for extraterrestrials.
00:26:19 --> 00:26:21 Professor Fred Watson: All the money is going into seti. Uh,
00:26:21 --> 00:26:23 yeah. So, um, it's,
00:26:25 --> 00:26:28 it's basically, um, the
00:26:28 --> 00:26:31 Saudi government is
00:26:32 --> 00:26:34 setting uh, up an observatory that I think
00:26:34 --> 00:26:36 will include a, uh, 4 metre class
00:26:37 --> 00:26:39 telescope, which
00:26:39 --> 00:26:42 is the same as our Anglo Australian telescope
00:26:42 --> 00:26:45 here in, here in uh, New South Wales and of
00:26:45 --> 00:26:47 course the same as The Kitt Peak 4 metre
00:26:47 --> 00:26:50 telescope, uh, in Arizona.
00:26:50 --> 00:26:52 Um, so what they're planning is, um, an
00:26:52 --> 00:26:54 observatory. They're planning a dark sky
00:26:54 --> 00:26:57 park, uh, to make it, um, you know,
00:26:57 --> 00:27:00 a place where people can go and
00:27:00 --> 00:27:03 look at the stars. It's uh, if I
00:27:03 --> 00:27:05 can try and pronounce it correctly, Alula
00:27:05 --> 00:27:08 Manara. I think that might be giving, giving
00:27:08 --> 00:27:11 it a Hawaiian pronunciation rather than a
00:27:11 --> 00:27:14 Saudi one, rather than an Arabic one. I mean.
00:27:14 --> 00:27:16 But um, anyway, that's the place. It's
00:27:17 --> 00:27:19 Saudi Arabia's first major astronomical
00:27:19 --> 00:27:21 observatory. And um,
00:27:22 --> 00:27:24 there's a World Heritage Site there with, and
00:27:24 --> 00:27:27 that's partly because of ancient
00:27:27 --> 00:27:29 civilizations going right back to the
00:27:29 --> 00:27:31 Neolithic. It's, you know, it makes our
00:27:31 --> 00:27:33 archaeology, even our archaeology here, uh,
00:27:33 --> 00:27:36 look a little bit, um, recent.
00:27:37 --> 00:27:39 Um, but uh, it's also going
00:27:39 --> 00:27:41 to have a dark sky park and as I said,
00:27:41 --> 00:27:44 eventually will host large telescopes, a 4
00:27:44 --> 00:27:46 metre and a pair of 2 metre class telescopes
00:27:46 --> 00:27:49 if everything goes according to plan.
00:27:49 --> 00:27:52 Um, so the SETI detectors
00:27:52 --> 00:27:54 are basically just part of that.
00:27:54 --> 00:27:57 And these are, they're a little bit different
00:27:57 --> 00:27:59 from the normal seti,
00:28:00 --> 00:28:03 uh, instrumentation. So seti, the Search for
00:28:03 --> 00:28:05 Extraterrestrial Intelligence. There is a
00:28:05 --> 00:28:07 SETI Institute, um, and they
00:28:07 --> 00:28:10 operate the Allen Telescope Array, which is
00:28:10 --> 00:28:13 an array of radio telescopes which has been
00:28:13 --> 00:28:16 dedicated to looking for alien signals for
00:28:16 --> 00:28:19 what, 20 years or something like that. But
00:28:19 --> 00:28:22 Laser SETI is a network of
00:28:22 --> 00:28:24 optical detectors, in other words, ones that
00:28:24 --> 00:28:26 detect visible light. Um, it's been under
00:28:26 --> 00:28:29 development for the last couple of years. And
00:28:30 --> 00:28:32 uh, I think this site in Saudi
00:28:32 --> 00:28:35 Arabia will lays, will be laser set. His
00:28:35 --> 00:28:37 fifth site, the first one actually
00:28:38 --> 00:28:40 Andrew Dunkley: looking at their website right now,
00:28:40 --> 00:28:43 laserseti.net and you can, you
00:28:43 --> 00:28:46 can look at all the data as it comes in.
00:28:46 --> 00:28:46 Professor Fred Watson: Excellent.
00:28:46 --> 00:28:48 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, yeah. Oh, look, they found something.
00:28:48 --> 00:28:49 No, I'm kidding.
00:28:50 --> 00:28:52 Professor Fred Watson: Well, um, I haven't, uh. You've got further
00:28:52 --> 00:28:54 than me because I didn't have time to look up
00:28:54 --> 00:28:57 laser seti. But um, yeah, good to see that
00:28:57 --> 00:28:59 they've, you know, I suppose it's a bit like,
00:28:59 --> 00:29:02 um, SETI at home with the, uh,
00:29:02 --> 00:29:04 you know, people using their own computers to
00:29:04 --> 00:29:07 do the analysis. There'll be a lot of AI
00:29:07 --> 00:29:10 presumably brought to bear on the laser SETI
00:29:10 --> 00:29:12 analysis to see if they can pick out
00:29:14 --> 00:29:16 a laser communication signal from outer
00:29:16 --> 00:29:19 space amongst all the optical noise that
00:29:19 --> 00:29:21 there is, uh, going through our skies.
00:29:22 --> 00:29:24 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I mean the day will come with the
00:29:24 --> 00:29:26 aliens turn up and say, oh, hi, we're here.
00:29:26 --> 00:29:28 We've been trying to talk to you. Oh yeah,
00:29:28 --> 00:29:31 well, we were, we were looking for you on the
00:29:31 --> 00:29:33 laser spectrum. Yeah, we don't use that.
00:29:35 --> 00:29:37 Professor Fred Watson: No, we don't use radio waves either.
00:29:37 --> 00:29:40 I wonder what they will use. Who knows?
00:29:40 --> 00:29:42 Andrew Dunkley: Um, it's hard to know, isn't it? It could be
00:29:42 --> 00:29:44 something out there that we don't know about
00:29:44 --> 00:29:47 that could be that everyone else is using and
00:29:47 --> 00:29:49 we're just using the old, you know,
00:29:50 --> 00:29:52 prehistoric stuff.
00:29:52 --> 00:29:55 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Um, or alternatively, we could
00:29:55 --> 00:29:57 be as good as it gets and there isn't anybody
00:29:57 --> 00:29:58 else out there.
00:29:58 --> 00:30:00 Andrew Dunkley: That's more likely though, isn't it?
00:30:00 --> 00:30:02 Professor Fred Watson: I think it might be, yes.
00:30:02 --> 00:30:05 Andrew Dunkley: Which would be pretty sad. But, um, there are
00:30:05 --> 00:30:08 a lot of people that think we are just a
00:30:08 --> 00:30:10 freak of nature and
00:30:10 --> 00:30:13 um, everything was just right to,
00:30:13 --> 00:30:16 to make us develop as we are and
00:30:16 --> 00:30:19 nowhere else will ever achieve that. And
00:30:19 --> 00:30:21 even, even if they do or have,
00:30:23 --> 00:30:25 chances are we'll never find each other.
00:30:25 --> 00:30:28 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Because the tyranny is the
00:30:28 --> 00:30:29 tyranny of distance. That's correct.
00:30:30 --> 00:30:30 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:30:31 --> 00:30:34 Andrew Dunkley: Fascinating. Uh, so when are they
00:30:34 --> 00:30:37 going to start building this thing or have
00:30:37 --> 00:30:37 they started?
00:30:37 --> 00:30:40 Professor Fred Watson: Well, I think it's already, um, the hardware
00:30:40 --> 00:30:42 is, uh, already there. Uh,
00:30:42 --> 00:30:45 and I, I'm not sure whether it's online in
00:30:45 --> 00:30:48 the, in the laser setting network yet, but
00:30:48 --> 00:30:50 it's certainly pretty, uh, well advanced.
00:30:50 --> 00:30:52 There are some nice photographs on the side
00:30:52 --> 00:30:53 that I'm looking at.
00:30:54 --> 00:30:56 Andrew Dunkley: So the Robert Ferguson Observatory in
00:30:56 --> 00:30:57 California.
00:30:58 --> 00:30:58 Professor Fred Watson: Yep.
00:30:58 --> 00:31:01 Andrew Dunkley: Is operational. The Haleakala
00:31:01 --> 00:31:04 Observatory, uh, in Maui. You'd
00:31:04 --> 00:31:04 know that one.
00:31:04 --> 00:31:05 Professor Fred Watson: Well, I do.
00:31:05 --> 00:31:08 Andrew Dunkley: Um, what else have we got. Oh,
00:31:08 --> 00:31:11 that's a busy one in Arizona.
00:31:11 --> 00:31:14 And was there another one?
00:31:15 --> 00:31:16 Professor Fred Watson: There is, yes.
00:31:16 --> 00:31:19 Andrew Dunkley: Alula, uh, Marinara Observatory in Saudi
00:31:19 --> 00:31:19 Arabia.
00:31:19 --> 00:31:22 Professor Fred Watson: That's right. There's one in Puerto Rico, I
00:31:22 --> 00:31:23 think, as well.
00:31:23 --> 00:31:26 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, it's not on the list. Probably broken.
00:31:27 --> 00:31:28 Professor Fred Watson: Maybe Feldo.
00:31:31 --> 00:31:34 Andrew Dunkley: There it is. Uh, you can check all that out,
00:31:34 --> 00:31:37 uh, @universetoday.com they've
00:31:37 --> 00:31:40 got the article. Or you can go to
00:31:40 --> 00:31:43 laserseti.net and take a look at what they're
00:31:43 --> 00:31:45 doing and, um, learn more there. Uh, you can
00:31:46 --> 00:31:48 even. I think you can sign up and get live
00:31:48 --> 00:31:49 updates and all sorts of things.
00:31:49 --> 00:31:52 So you might be the first to know that
00:31:52 --> 00:31:54 they've found ET and you can tell us.
00:31:55 --> 00:31:56 Professor Fred Watson: Well, that would be something, wouldn't it?
00:31:57 --> 00:31:59 Andrew Dunkley: Wouldn't it just. All
00:31:59 --> 00:32:02 right. Uh, that's just about it, Fred Watson.
00:32:02 --> 00:32:05 Gosh, um, good to be back. Even though
00:32:05 --> 00:32:07 it doesn't sound like we were ever apart, but
00:32:08 --> 00:32:09 we know the truth.
00:32:09 --> 00:32:10 Professor Fred Watson: It's an optical illusion.
00:32:11 --> 00:32:13 Andrew Dunkley: It is, yes. Thanks, uh, Fred Watson,
00:32:13 --> 00:32:14 we'll talk to you real soon.
00:32:15 --> 00:32:17 Professor Fred Watson: I hope so. Thanks, Andrew.
00:32:17 --> 00:32:20 Andrew Dunkley: And, um, between episodes, please Visit our
00:32:20 --> 00:32:22 website, spacenatspodcast.com or
00:32:22 --> 00:32:25 spacenuts IO and check everything
00:32:25 --> 00:32:28 out the shop the. You, uh, could sign up for
00:32:28 --> 00:32:31 the AstroDailyPod News feed. There are videos
00:32:31 --> 00:32:33 you can send us, messages through the Ask Me
00:32:33 --> 00:32:36 Anything tab at the top, and so on. And maybe
00:32:36 --> 00:32:39 become a supporter. And don't forget to leave
00:32:39 --> 00:32:42 reviews wherever you listen to our podcast,
00:32:42 --> 00:32:44 or watch it, for that matter, on YouTube.
00:32:44 --> 00:32:46 Normally, uh, I'd play a terrible joke on
00:32:46 --> 00:32:49 Huw, um, but I just wanted to say
00:32:49 --> 00:32:52 that, uh, Huw has, um, got himself
00:32:52 --> 00:32:54 back home after a stint in hospital and
00:32:54 --> 00:32:57 recovering well. So we're very, very pleased
00:32:57 --> 00:32:58 to hear that news. Good on you, Huw.
00:32:59 --> 00:33:02 Uh, I'll be back to insult uh, you next week.
00:33:02 --> 00:33:05 And, uh, from me, Andrew Dunkley, thanks for
00:33:05 --> 00:33:06 your company. We'll catch you on the next
00:33:06 --> 00:33:08 episode of Space Nuts.
00:33:08 --> 00:33:09 Professor Fred Watson: Bye. Bye.
00:33:10 --> 00:33:12 Andrew Dunkley: You've been listening to the Space Nuts
00:33:12 --> 00:33:15 podcast, available at
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00:33:18 --> 00:33:21 Radio or your favourite podcast player. You
00:33:21 --> 00:33:23 can also stream on demand@bytes.com.
00:33:24 --> 00:33:26 Professor Fred Watson: this has been another quality podcast
00:33:26 --> 00:33:28 production from bytes.com.