00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Heidi Campo: Welcome back to another exciting Q A
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 episode of space nuts.
00:00:05 --> 00:00:07 Voice Over Guy: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 10, 9. Ignition
00:00:10 --> 00:00:13 sequence time. Space nuts. 5, 4, 3,
00:00:13 --> 00:00:16 2. 1. 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4,
00:00:16 --> 00:00:18 3, 2, 1. Space nuts.
00:00:18 --> 00:00:20 Astronauts report. It feels good.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 Heidi Campo: I'm your host for this episode, Heidi Campo.
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 Filling in for Andrew Dunkley. Joining me
00:00:27 --> 00:00:29 today is Professor Fred Watson,
00:00:29 --> 00:00:32 astronomer at large. How are you today, Fred?
00:00:33 --> 00:00:36 Professor Fred Watson: I'm fine, thanks. I'm still at large, uh,
00:00:36 --> 00:00:38 which is always good. Uh, no, very well,
00:00:38 --> 00:00:40 thank you Heidi, and I hope you are too.
00:00:40 --> 00:00:43 How's the weather doing in Houston? You were
00:00:43 --> 00:00:46 concerned about the heat and the
00:00:46 --> 00:00:47 rain and.
00:00:47 --> 00:00:49 Heidi Campo: Oh, it's been beautiful. Last, uh, couple
00:00:49 --> 00:00:51 days have really been nice. I actually sat
00:00:51 --> 00:00:54 out, um, on the, on that patio. We have a
00:00:54 --> 00:00:56 little patio in our backyard. Had a little
00:00:56 --> 00:00:59 sparkling water, watched my dog play in the
00:00:59 --> 00:01:01 yard and it was pretty nice. I think they
00:01:01 --> 00:01:03 sprayed for the mosquitoes recently. So those
00:01:03 --> 00:01:03 have calmed down.
00:01:05 --> 00:01:06 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right.
00:01:06 --> 00:01:09 Heidi Campo: And no hurricanes yet, which is, let's knock
00:01:09 --> 00:01:12 uh, on wood because that's my favorite part
00:01:12 --> 00:01:13 right now is not having.
00:01:13 --> 00:01:15 Professor Fred Watson: Hurricanes as it would be.
00:01:16 --> 00:01:17 Yeah.
00:01:18 --> 00:01:21 Heidi Campo: All right, well, we have uh, our first
00:01:21 --> 00:01:23 question today is uh, from
00:01:23 --> 00:01:26 Greg from Minnesota, also a
00:01:26 --> 00:01:29 hurricane free zone. You're safe
00:01:29 --> 00:01:31 from the hurricanes, Greg. I hope you're
00:01:31 --> 00:01:33 enjoying not having them in Minnesota.
00:01:34 --> 00:01:37 And uh, Greg says, g' day, Fred.
00:01:37 --> 00:01:40 And howdy Heidi. I'm Greg from
00:01:40 --> 00:01:42 Minnesota usa and I have a question about
00:01:42 --> 00:01:45 photons and quantum energy levels.
00:01:45 --> 00:01:48 We know that energy is quanticized,
00:01:48 --> 00:01:51 that therefore photons can only exist
00:01:51 --> 00:01:54 at certain discrete energy levels. We also
00:01:54 --> 00:01:56 know that space is expanding and that travel
00:01:56 --> 00:01:58 traveling through the expanding space saps
00:01:58 --> 00:02:01 energy from the traveling photons. What
00:02:01 --> 00:02:04 happens when a photon has been traveling so
00:02:04 --> 00:02:06 long, so far that the energy it
00:02:06 --> 00:02:09 carries drops below the minimum allowed
00:02:09 --> 00:02:11 quantum energy level? Does it
00:02:11 --> 00:02:14 disappear? I love the podcast and I'm looking
00:02:14 --> 00:02:15 forward to your answer.
00:02:17 --> 00:02:20 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, this is, ah, I think this is a great
00:02:20 --> 00:02:22 question and it certainly had me scratching
00:02:22 --> 00:02:25 my head, Heidi. Uh, it sent me
00:02:25 --> 00:02:28 to um, the Fermilab,
00:02:28 --> 00:02:30 which of course is uh, one of the
00:02:31 --> 00:02:34 key, uh, nuclear physics facilities
00:02:34 --> 00:02:36 in your country. Uh, they
00:02:37 --> 00:02:39 um, have a marvelous website called
00:02:40 --> 00:02:42 uh, Physics Questions People Ask Fermilab.
00:02:42 --> 00:02:45 And I think the, the
00:02:45 --> 00:02:48 nuances of the answer, uh, are probably best
00:02:48 --> 00:02:51 expressed by uh, the, the
00:02:51 --> 00:02:54 um, the account that I've
00:02:54 --> 00:02:57 got in front of me which is by uh, one
00:02:57 --> 00:03:00 of their uh, PhD physicists. In fact,
00:03:00 --> 00:03:03 uh, Lila is the editor of the Office of
00:03:03 --> 00:03:05 Public Affairs, Lila Belcora,
00:03:06 --> 00:03:08 who says, and I think this
00:03:09 --> 00:03:11 puts it a little bit into
00:03:11 --> 00:03:14 perspective let's put aside the
00:03:14 --> 00:03:16 idea of a photon losing energy
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19 in transit as an explanation for
00:03:19 --> 00:03:22 redshift. A photon doesn't lose energy
00:03:22 --> 00:03:25 unless it collides with a particle. Uh,
00:03:26 --> 00:03:27 photons can scatter off interstellar
00:03:27 --> 00:03:30 electrons, for example. Uh,
00:03:30 --> 00:03:33 photons carry energy, but they don't lose
00:03:33 --> 00:03:35 energy just because they travel.
00:03:36 --> 00:03:38 And this is the key to it, as
00:03:39 --> 00:03:41 Lila says, the key to understanding the
00:03:41 --> 00:03:44 dilemma of a redshifted photon.
00:03:44 --> 00:03:46 And that's to say, one that's traveling
00:03:46 --> 00:03:49 through space, uh, through expanding space.
00:03:49 --> 00:03:51 And so the space has expanded, the photon has
00:03:51 --> 00:03:54 been redshifted. It's got, uh, a lower energy
00:03:54 --> 00:03:57 level. Uh, the key to understanding that
00:03:57 --> 00:03:59 dilemma is that not all observers will
00:03:59 --> 00:04:02 measure the same energy of the photon. Let's
00:04:02 --> 00:04:04 say an observer is traveling with a star or
00:04:04 --> 00:04:06 galaxy and sees a photon in the yellow
00:04:06 --> 00:04:09 portion of the spectrum. An observer who is
00:04:09 --> 00:04:11 moving with respect to the star, and it
00:04:11 --> 00:04:13 doesn't matter if it's a star or the observer
00:04:13 --> 00:04:16 moving away sees the same photon in the
00:04:16 --> 00:04:19 red part of the spectrum. That's okay. It
00:04:19 --> 00:04:20 doesn't violate the principle of
00:04:20 --> 00:04:23 conservation, conservation of energy, because
00:04:23 --> 00:04:25 they make their measurements in different
00:04:25 --> 00:04:28 reference frames. So,
00:04:28 --> 00:04:31 um, that's a complicated way of
00:04:31 --> 00:04:33 saying, uh, that,
00:04:33 --> 00:04:35 um, uh,
00:04:36 --> 00:04:39 yes, uh, photon energy is quantized,
00:04:39 --> 00:04:41 but it's never going to reach a stage
00:04:42 --> 00:04:44 when it falls, uh, below
00:04:44 --> 00:04:47 the minimum allowed quantum energy level.
00:04:47 --> 00:04:50 So it doesn't disappear. Um, I
00:04:50 --> 00:04:53 hope, Greg, that explains, uh, the answer to
00:04:53 --> 00:04:55 your question. Uh, it's one that had me
00:04:55 --> 00:04:57 scratching my head for quite a while. And I
00:04:57 --> 00:05:00 thought that Lila's comment in the Fermilab
00:05:00 --> 00:05:03 website actually put it very well. Uh, if you
00:05:03 --> 00:05:04 want to follow up on that, it's pretty easy
00:05:04 --> 00:05:07 to find. Just look for inquiring minds,
00:05:07 --> 00:05:10 physics questions people ask Fermilab, and,
00:05:10 --> 00:05:13 uh, uh, have a look at it. It's um, very
00:05:13 --> 00:05:16 nicely written and perhaps lays
00:05:16 --> 00:05:17 to rest some of the things that we do think
00:05:17 --> 00:05:20 of. We take for granted that photons are
00:05:20 --> 00:05:22 losing energy because they get red sh.
00:05:22 --> 00:05:24 Shifted, but they're only redshifted in our
00:05:24 --> 00:05:27 frame of reference. Ah, that's the
00:05:27 --> 00:05:30 interesting nuance, uh, to this question.
00:05:32 --> 00:05:35 Heidi Campo: Yeah, I'm still wrapping my head around that
00:05:35 --> 00:05:38 one. That's so interesting. Whenever you go
00:05:38 --> 00:05:41 anywhere close to the world of quantum,
00:05:41 --> 00:05:44 it's just everything changes. All the
00:05:44 --> 00:05:44 rules change.
00:05:45 --> 00:05:48 Professor Fred Watson: That's right, they do. Um, a lot of
00:05:48 --> 00:05:51 it's completely counterintuitive, uh, but
00:05:51 --> 00:05:54 it seems to work. We, uh,
00:05:54 --> 00:05:57 hear about in quantum physics, uh, for
00:05:57 --> 00:06:00 example, entanglement, this idea that
00:06:00 --> 00:06:02 you can bring two particles together and
00:06:02 --> 00:06:04 they'll behave as one particle. Even though
00:06:04 --> 00:06:07 you then separate them, uh, they still think
00:06:07 --> 00:06:10 they're one particle. That is quite
00:06:10 --> 00:06:11 counterintuitive.
00:06:12 --> 00:06:15 Heidi Campo: Yeah, there was a cute little movie that came
00:06:15 --> 00:06:18 out recently. Um, it had Chris Pratt
00:06:18 --> 00:06:21 and. Oh, my gosh, everyone's
00:06:21 --> 00:06:22 gonna make fun of me because I can't remember
00:06:22 --> 00:06:24 the girl's name. She's the girl who's from
00:06:24 --> 00:06:27 Stranger Things. She's very, she's very
00:06:27 --> 00:06:29 famous right now. But their whole. The whole
00:06:29 --> 00:06:32 premise was once particles
00:06:32 --> 00:06:35 touch, then they're never separated. And it
00:06:35 --> 00:06:37 was kind of a, like a love story type thing.
00:06:37 --> 00:06:39 It was kind of cute. But, yeah, once
00:06:39 --> 00:06:41 particles have. Have touched, you never lose
00:06:41 --> 00:06:42 that connection. It was kind of cute.
00:06:44 --> 00:06:47 Um, well, our next question is from
00:06:47 --> 00:06:49 Russell, and this is an audio question.
00:06:51 --> 00:06:53 So we are. I'm going to give Fred a second to
00:06:53 --> 00:06:56 cue that up, and then we are going to play
00:06:56 --> 00:06:58 that question for you guys to listen to you
00:06:58 --> 00:07:00 now. And then Fred is going to answer that
00:07:00 --> 00:07:03 question for all of you. So here is
00:07:03 --> 00:07:04 Russell's question.
00:07:05 --> 00:07:07 Mikey: Hello, Fred and Andrew. This is Russell, uh,
00:07:08 --> 00:07:11 from Reading in the uk. Um, there's been a
00:07:11 --> 00:07:13 recent suggestion that the universe is inside
00:07:13 --> 00:07:16 a black hole. But my understanding is that
00:07:16 --> 00:07:18 the event horizon of a black hole is a. Not a
00:07:18 --> 00:07:21 thin membrane, but extends all the way down
00:07:21 --> 00:07:24 to the singularity. Um, this means that
00:07:24 --> 00:07:25 light and everything else can only travel in
00:07:25 --> 00:07:27 one direction, which is towards the
00:07:27 --> 00:07:30 singularity. So it would be immediately
00:07:30 --> 00:07:32 obvious if we were inside a black hole,
00:07:32 --> 00:07:34 because you could only see in one direction,
00:07:34 --> 00:07:37 which is away from the singularity.
00:07:38 --> 00:07:40 What have I missed? Thanks for the great
00:07:40 --> 00:07:40 show.
00:07:40 --> 00:07:42 Professor Fred Watson: So Russell's asking what he missed,
00:07:44 --> 00:07:45 and I don't think he missed anything,
00:07:45 --> 00:07:47 actually, because, um,
00:07:49 --> 00:07:51 you know, the idea of the
00:07:51 --> 00:07:54 universe being a black
00:07:54 --> 00:07:56 hole or the whole universe being within a
00:07:56 --> 00:07:59 black hole is extremely,
00:07:59 --> 00:08:02 um, speculative and
00:08:03 --> 00:08:05 really does not have the,
00:08:06 --> 00:08:09 uh, imprimatur of the scientific
00:08:09 --> 00:08:11 community. And that's just another way of
00:08:11 --> 00:08:14 saying nobody believes it. Um, and so,
00:08:14 --> 00:08:17 um, uh, you know, questions like that, I
00:08:17 --> 00:08:19 think are very good ones because intuitively
00:08:19 --> 00:08:22 you would expect that to be the case.
00:08:22 --> 00:08:25 Now, um, just pursuing this a bit
00:08:25 --> 00:08:28 further. The people who
00:08:28 --> 00:08:31 work on theories that perhaps the universe is
00:08:31 --> 00:08:34 inside a black hole, they are
00:08:34 --> 00:08:37 not stupid. So they're
00:08:37 --> 00:08:39 people who have big, great
00:08:39 --> 00:08:42 insights in physics. Uh, and so I
00:08:42 --> 00:08:45 suspect, um, their thinking is
00:08:45 --> 00:08:48 along the lines that if we are,
00:08:49 --> 00:08:51 if we're in a black hole, we're not just
00:08:51 --> 00:08:53 within the event horizon. We
00:08:53 --> 00:08:56 may well be within the singularity. Because
00:08:56 --> 00:08:59 a black hole is a singularity. It's A point
00:08:59 --> 00:09:01 where physics breaks down. Uh, it's
00:09:01 --> 00:09:04 basically a point of zero dimensions
00:09:04 --> 00:09:07 and infinite density. Um, are
00:09:07 --> 00:09:09 we inside that? Uh,
00:09:10 --> 00:09:12 if so, that would mean all bets are off. We
00:09:12 --> 00:09:15 wouldn't have any idea how physics worked.
00:09:15 --> 00:09:17 But the universe seems to be pretty well
00:09:17 --> 00:09:19 behaved and we can understand it from the
00:09:19 --> 00:09:21 physical laws that we have. Um, if we're
00:09:21 --> 00:09:24 inside the event horizon, then we should see
00:09:24 --> 00:09:27 evidence somewhere of the black hole itself.
00:09:27 --> 00:09:29 Uh, like the kind of thing that Russell
00:09:29 --> 00:09:32 suggested, uh, like going only one way. We
00:09:32 --> 00:09:35 see no evidence whatsoever of that kind of
00:09:35 --> 00:09:38 thing. The universe, uh, as far as we can
00:09:38 --> 00:09:40 tell, is isotropic. That basically means
00:09:40 --> 00:09:43 it's the same in all directions, give or take
00:09:43 --> 00:09:45 a bit of structure that we find from
00:09:45 --> 00:09:47 galaxies. Nevertheless, it's more or less the
00:09:47 --> 00:09:49 same in all directions. And that seems to fly
00:09:49 --> 00:09:52 in the face of the idea of a black hole
00:09:52 --> 00:09:55 universe. So uh, I think Russell's asking
00:09:55 --> 00:09:57 what he's missing. I don't think he's missing
00:09:57 --> 00:09:59 anything. I think he's facing the same sort
00:09:59 --> 00:10:02 of challenge as people who propose this idea
00:10:02 --> 00:10:04 have to face. Uh, there's quite a lot of
00:10:04 --> 00:10:07 material on this topic on the web. Uh,
00:10:07 --> 00:10:10 not too hard to find. Um, it might be
00:10:10 --> 00:10:12 worth a poke around. Russell, uh, nice to
00:10:12 --> 00:10:15 hear your accent coming from reading down
00:10:15 --> 00:10:18 there. I know reading not that well, but I do
00:10:18 --> 00:10:21 know it in uh, in uh, south, uh, the
00:10:21 --> 00:10:21 south of England.
00:10:24 --> 00:10:24 There you are.
00:10:25 --> 00:10:27 Heidi Campo: That was a good question. Um, I,
00:10:27 --> 00:10:30 I recently re. Watched the movie Oppenheimer
00:10:30 --> 00:10:33 and they brought up the, with quantum physics
00:10:33 --> 00:10:35 and yeah, um, everything they said something
00:10:35 --> 00:10:38 about, you know, about, you know, anybody can
00:10:38 --> 00:10:41 do math and, but for the real theory it's
00:10:41 --> 00:10:43 like can you hear the music? Can you see
00:10:43 --> 00:10:46 what can't be seen? And I think that that's
00:10:46 --> 00:10:49 really. We do get a lot of people writing in
00:10:49 --> 00:10:52 with questions who think like that. We have a
00:10:52 --> 00:10:54 lot of very creative, very
00:10:55 --> 00:10:57 scientific minded people who are,
00:10:57 --> 00:11:00 I mean you guys are, you guys all should be
00:11:00 --> 00:11:01 scientists because some of the questions we
00:11:01 --> 00:11:04 get are very, very
00:11:04 --> 00:11:06 deep scientific thoughts.
00:11:08 --> 00:11:10 Professor Fred Watson: Okay, we checked all four systems and.
00:11:10 --> 00:11:13 Heidi Campo: Being with a girl, space nets, um,
00:11:13 --> 00:11:15 and that. Let's bring that to our next
00:11:15 --> 00:11:17 question which is going to be Paul
00:11:18 --> 00:11:20 from Melbourne, Australia. He says
00:11:21 --> 00:11:23 quick question. Hello, Heidi, Fred and
00:11:23 --> 00:11:26 Andrew. When Isaac Newton noticed an
00:11:26 --> 00:11:29 apple falling from the tree, did the
00:11:29 --> 00:11:32 planet Earth ever so slightly get
00:11:32 --> 00:11:35 tugged toward the apple as it fell
00:11:35 --> 00:11:38 to the ground? Thanks. Love the show.
00:11:38 --> 00:11:40 That's Paul from Melbourne with another
00:11:41 --> 00:11:42 deep, thoughtful question.
00:11:43 --> 00:11:45 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, I think the answer is yes
00:11:46 --> 00:11:48 as well. Uh,
00:11:48 --> 00:11:51 you know, um, when we think of the, and
00:11:51 --> 00:11:54 this is the Newton idea that gravity was a
00:11:54 --> 00:11:56 force. Einstein told us it's actually
00:11:56 --> 00:11:57 something different from that. It's a
00:11:57 --> 00:12:00 distortion of space. But, uh, just stick with
00:12:00 --> 00:12:03 Newton's idea for the moment. Um, the
00:12:03 --> 00:12:06 mutual attraction between the
00:12:06 --> 00:12:09 apple and the Earth goes both ways.
00:12:09 --> 00:12:11 The gravity of the apple would also be
00:12:11 --> 00:12:13 attracting the Earth, Uh, but not
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16 to any significant degree, of course, because
00:12:16 --> 00:12:18 of the, you know, the ratio of their masses
00:12:18 --> 00:12:21 is so high. But there would be, um,
00:12:21 --> 00:12:24 an infinitesimal nudge of the Earth
00:12:24 --> 00:12:27 up towards the Atlanta. Um, I
00:12:27 --> 00:12:30 think. So the answer is yes. Um, uh,
00:12:30 --> 00:12:33 it's a great question, Paul. Uh, Paul might
00:12:33 --> 00:12:34 also be interested to know that the apple
00:12:34 --> 00:12:37 tree is still there. Uh, that Newton
00:12:37 --> 00:12:39 is, uh, reported to have seen
00:12:40 --> 00:12:43 the apple falling down. Um,
00:12:44 --> 00:12:46 the place where he worked out his theory of
00:12:46 --> 00:12:48 gravity. He was actually in quarantine
00:12:48 --> 00:12:50 from Cambridge in a place called
00:12:50 --> 00:12:52 Lincolnshire, which is further north than
00:12:52 --> 00:12:55 Cambridge, when he lived in the
00:12:55 --> 00:12:58 family manor because they were, uh, well, uh,
00:12:58 --> 00:13:00 very well healed family. But his bedroom
00:13:00 --> 00:13:03 window overlooked this apple tree in
00:13:03 --> 00:13:06 the orchard. Uh, and so maybe it was
00:13:06 --> 00:13:08 looking out of his bedroom window that he saw
00:13:08 --> 00:13:11 apples falling and made him think about this
00:13:11 --> 00:13:13 force that pulls stuff down to the ground,
00:13:14 --> 00:13:16 which is the same force that keeps the Earth
00:13:16 --> 00:13:18 in its orbit around the sun and keeps the
00:13:18 --> 00:13:20 moon in orbit around the Earth. Um, so,
00:13:20 --> 00:13:22 um, it's nice that the apple tree is still
00:13:22 --> 00:13:24 there. It's got a fence, uh, around it now,
00:13:24 --> 00:13:26 so nobody cuts it down.
00:13:26 --> 00:13:28 Heidi Campo: Does it still produce fruit?
00:13:28 --> 00:13:30 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, I don't know the answer to that, Heidi.
00:13:30 --> 00:13:32 Um, it might just be a little bit elderly
00:13:32 --> 00:13:35 because that was all in the 1680s when that
00:13:35 --> 00:13:38 was happening. So. 1660s. I beg your pardon.
00:13:38 --> 00:13:38 When that was happening.
00:13:38 --> 00:13:40 Heidi Campo: That would be pretty crazy. I'm just thinking
00:13:40 --> 00:13:43 of the capitalist thought with that is. Okay,
00:13:43 --> 00:13:46 we're gonna sell, um, Newton apple juice,
00:13:46 --> 00:13:48 and it's gonna be from this tree, and we're
00:13:48 --> 00:13:50 gonna brand it as. This is the genius. This
00:13:50 --> 00:13:53 is what genius? The genius apple juice.
00:13:54 --> 00:13:55 Professor Fred Watson: I think you're right on the money there. Uh,
00:13:55 --> 00:13:57 and that's probably, that's probably the fact
00:13:57 --> 00:13:59 that it doesn't produce apples anymore is why
00:13:59 --> 00:14:00 that hasn't happened.
00:14:01 --> 00:14:03 Heidi Campo: Yeah, unfortunately.
00:14:06 --> 00:14:08 Professor Fred Watson: Three, two, one.
00:14:09 --> 00:14:10 Mikey: Space nuts.
00:14:11 --> 00:14:13 Heidi Campo: All right, well, our very last question today
00:14:13 --> 00:14:16 is from Mikey, and this is also another
00:14:16 --> 00:14:19 audio question, so I'm going to give Fred a
00:14:19 --> 00:14:21 chance to cue that up, and then we are going
00:14:21 --> 00:14:24 to play that for all of you to hear Mikey's
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26 question, and then Fred will answer that. So
00:14:26 --> 00:14:27 I'm going to go ahead and play that now.
00:14:28 --> 00:14:30 Mikey: Hey Fred and Andrew, I hope you're doing
00:14:30 --> 00:14:33 well. This is Mikey once again from Illinois.
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35 Um, I wanted to talk about the European Space
00:14:35 --> 00:14:38 Agency's solar orbiter. And
00:14:38 --> 00:14:41 I know that it was the first
00:14:41 --> 00:14:44 spacecraft to ever take images of the north
00:14:44 --> 00:14:46 and south pole of the sun, which is a huge
00:14:46 --> 00:14:49 thing because every time we've taken any
00:14:49 --> 00:14:51 photos it's been from the ecliptic plane.
00:14:51 --> 00:14:54 Um, and that got me thinking, was that
00:14:54 --> 00:14:57 spacecraft or is that spacecraft the
00:14:57 --> 00:14:59 only thing to ever make that orbit that
00:14:59 --> 00:15:02 wasn't in the ecliptic plane? Man made or
00:15:02 --> 00:15:04 not? Is there anything else in our solar
00:15:04 --> 00:15:07 system that takes that, that
00:15:07 --> 00:15:09 kind of orbit or was that
00:15:09 --> 00:15:12 spacecraft the only thing ever in our
00:15:12 --> 00:15:15 solar system to orbit outside of the
00:15:15 --> 00:15:17 ecliptic plane? Um,
00:15:18 --> 00:15:20 that's just, it's hurting my head thinking
00:15:20 --> 00:15:23 about that. Uh, hopefully that
00:15:23 --> 00:15:25 question makes sense to you guys and I can't
00:15:25 --> 00:15:26 wait to hear the answer.
00:15:27 --> 00:15:29 Heidi Campo: I can't wait to hear the answer either. This
00:15:29 --> 00:15:31 is a really good question with
00:15:32 --> 00:15:35 quite a thought provoking idea to
00:15:35 --> 00:15:37 it. I, I've never thought of that as well. We
00:15:37 --> 00:15:40 don't really often see pictures of the top
00:15:40 --> 00:15:42 and bottom of the celestial bodies.
00:15:43 --> 00:15:46 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right. Um, so the, the,
00:15:46 --> 00:15:49 so the answer to, to um, Mikey's question,
00:15:49 --> 00:15:52 um, which is, does anything
00:15:52 --> 00:15:55 in the solar system orbit outside
00:15:55 --> 00:15:57 the ecliptic plane? The ecliptic plane being
00:15:57 --> 00:16:00 the plane in which the planets, uh, and most
00:16:00 --> 00:16:02 of the asteroids orbit the sun. And the
00:16:02 --> 00:16:05 answer is yes, um, comets do. So
00:16:05 --> 00:16:08 comets come in to uh, the inner
00:16:08 --> 00:16:10 solar system in their very elongated orbits
00:16:10 --> 00:16:13 from pretty well all angles. Uh, and
00:16:13 --> 00:16:16 so they sometimes come from the, you know,
00:16:16 --> 00:16:17 above the ecliptic plane, sometimes from
00:16:17 --> 00:16:20 below it. Uh, and um,
00:16:20 --> 00:16:23 that's why we think that the source of comets
00:16:23 --> 00:16:26 is actually a spherical shell of
00:16:26 --> 00:16:28 cometary material, uh because they do come in
00:16:28 --> 00:16:31 from all angles. So uh, it
00:16:31 --> 00:16:34 stands to reason that they're uh, their
00:16:34 --> 00:16:36 origin. If there is a cloud of these things
00:16:36 --> 00:16:38 outside the, outside the
00:16:39 --> 00:16:42 domain, uh, of the planets as we think there
00:16:42 --> 00:16:45 is, then it would be spherical and we call
00:16:45 --> 00:16:47 it the Oort cloud. It was Jan Oort, a great
00:16:47 --> 00:16:50 Dutch astronomer who postulated that. So
00:16:50 --> 00:16:52 comets do, they're natural objects that do
00:16:53 --> 00:16:55 orbit well outside the plane of the ecliptic.
00:16:56 --> 00:16:58 Um, but in terms of uh, spacecraft,
00:16:59 --> 00:17:02 uh, no, um, there
00:17:02 --> 00:17:05 are spacecraft that are above uh,
00:17:05 --> 00:17:08 and below the ecliptic. In fact, Voyager 2 is
00:17:08 --> 00:17:09 the classic example that ah,
00:17:10 --> 00:17:13 uh, is heading out of the solar system well
00:17:13 --> 00:17:16 below the plane of the ecliptic. It's well to
00:17:16 --> 00:17:18 the south of the ecliptic plane, which is why
00:17:18 --> 00:17:21 the only radio telescope in the world that
00:17:21 --> 00:17:22 could communicate with it is here in
00:17:22 --> 00:17:25 Australia. Uh, because we see that
00:17:26 --> 00:17:28 part of the sky. Um, but uh,
00:17:29 --> 00:17:32 you're absolutely right, Mikey, that uh, this
00:17:32 --> 00:17:34 is the first time a, uh, spacecraft
00:17:35 --> 00:17:37 has seen the poles of the sun.
00:17:38 --> 00:17:41 Um, and it's actually, um, only
00:17:41 --> 00:17:44 at the moment. I think the tilt
00:17:44 --> 00:17:47 of the spacecraft's orbits to the ecliptic is
00:17:47 --> 00:17:49 only about 15 degrees. It's not very high,
00:17:49 --> 00:17:51 but it's still enough to be able to see over
00:17:51 --> 00:17:54 the top and uh, uh, of the sun.
00:17:55 --> 00:17:57 Uh, sorry, uh, it's the bottom of the sun, if
00:17:57 --> 00:17:58 we put it that way, because I think it's the
00:17:58 --> 00:18:01 south polar region that's been imaged. Uh,
00:18:01 --> 00:18:04 but they are, uh, esa, the European Space
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07 Agency, have plans to increase the tilt of
00:18:07 --> 00:18:10 the orbit. So we'll see, we'll have a much
00:18:10 --> 00:18:12 better view of the Sun's south
00:18:12 --> 00:18:14 pole. Um,
00:18:15 --> 00:18:17 the process of
00:18:17 --> 00:18:20 changing the angle of an orbit is actually
00:18:21 --> 00:18:23 quite expensive in terms of fuel. It's
00:18:23 --> 00:18:26 not a straightforward thing to do. Uh, so
00:18:26 --> 00:18:29 it's uh, you know, it's very ambitious thing
00:18:29 --> 00:18:30 to do for the
00:18:32 --> 00:18:34 operators and the mission controllers for the
00:18:34 --> 00:18:37 um, Solar Orbiter spacecraft to be able to do
00:18:37 --> 00:18:39 that. Uh, it's obviously been built into the
00:18:39 --> 00:18:41 mission. The spacecraft um, actually went
00:18:41 --> 00:18:44 into orbit around The sun in 2020. So
00:18:44 --> 00:18:46 it's been working for five years. And I think
00:18:46 --> 00:18:49 the mission profile has this steady increase
00:18:49 --> 00:18:52 of the, of the orbital angle. Uh,
00:18:52 --> 00:18:54 what's perhaps even more interesting than
00:18:54 --> 00:18:56 that is what they found at the Sun's poles,
00:18:56 --> 00:18:58 uh, the south pole. And that is
00:18:59 --> 00:19:01 uh, a, uh, confusion of magnetic
00:19:01 --> 00:19:04 fields. Uh, the Sun's magnetism is
00:19:04 --> 00:19:06 very bizarre. Unlike the Earth, where the
00:19:06 --> 00:19:09 magnetic fields are strongest, uh, around the
00:19:09 --> 00:19:12 poles of the Earth, it's the opposite way
00:19:12 --> 00:19:14 around on the sun. At least at the moment,
00:19:14 --> 00:19:16 uh, it's something that changes with the
00:19:16 --> 00:19:19 Sun's 11 year cycle. Uh, so
00:19:19 --> 00:19:22 at the moment the Sun's magnetic activity is
00:19:22 --> 00:19:25 really mostly around its equator rather
00:19:25 --> 00:19:27 than at the poles. And there's a jumble of
00:19:27 --> 00:19:30 magnetic fields, uh, being discovered at, ah,
00:19:30 --> 00:19:33 the poles, which is probably due to the
00:19:33 --> 00:19:36 fact that at the peak of the Sun's activity,
00:19:36 --> 00:19:38 which is where we are now, the magnetic field
00:19:38 --> 00:19:41 of the sun actually switches from north to
00:19:41 --> 00:19:43 south. Uh, and so that might be why we're
00:19:43 --> 00:19:46 seeing this confusion at the pole of the Sun.
00:19:46 --> 00:19:49 So yeah, great question and such an
00:19:49 --> 00:19:52 interesting spacecraft as well. I once again
00:19:52 --> 00:19:53 encourage you to get online and check out
00:19:54 --> 00:19:57 Issa's solar orbiter there's some fabulous
00:19:57 --> 00:19:59 stuff on the web with many, many images of
00:20:00 --> 00:20:02 what's happening, uh, near the sun's poles.
00:20:03 --> 00:20:05 Heidi Campo: Yeah, I think I was reading about that one
00:20:05 --> 00:20:08 recently too. And yeah, I mean, really, this
00:20:08 --> 00:20:10 industry is picking up. There's so much
00:20:10 --> 00:20:12 happening every day it's hard to keep track
00:20:12 --> 00:20:12 of.
00:20:12 --> 00:20:15 But uh, we mentioned this a little bit before
00:20:15 --> 00:20:18 we started recording, but Fred, you
00:20:18 --> 00:20:21 subscribed to so many, um, news resources and
00:20:21 --> 00:20:23 it's your morning routine. I've got one
00:20:23 --> 00:20:26 question for you about how much time do
00:20:26 --> 00:20:29 you dedicate a morning to reading through
00:20:29 --> 00:20:32 the space news and updating, updating
00:20:32 --> 00:20:34 yourself to stay up to date? Can you walk us
00:20:34 --> 00:20:35 through a little bit of what that routine
00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 looks like for people who want to, you know,
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 who kind of aspire to be a little bit more
00:20:40 --> 00:20:41 like you and have that discipline?
00:20:42 --> 00:20:45 Professor Fred Watson: It's um. I always feel that I spend
00:20:45 --> 00:20:48 too much time doing it because I've always
00:20:48 --> 00:20:50 got things that I want to achieve
00:20:51 --> 00:20:53 during the day. And usually it's writing an
00:20:53 --> 00:20:55 article or, you know,
00:20:56 --> 00:20:58 at the moment I'm trying to get my head
00:20:58 --> 00:21:00 around some, uh, some legal
00:21:00 --> 00:21:03 stuff that I'm involved with in terms of, um,
00:21:04 --> 00:21:07 uh, acting, uh, on behalf of.
00:21:08 --> 00:21:10 I won't say what it's about, but it's
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13 astronomy related, uh,
00:21:13 --> 00:21:15 you know, legal, legal issues. So that,
00:21:15 --> 00:21:17 that's the kind of thing that I should be
00:21:17 --> 00:21:19 really getting onto. But my head really wants
00:21:19 --> 00:21:22 to soak in what's coming out in the science
00:21:22 --> 00:21:25 news. So sometimes it's an hour, uh, in the
00:21:25 --> 00:21:28 morning that I spend delving into these
00:21:28 --> 00:21:31 stories. Uh, because you, you know, you see a
00:21:31 --> 00:21:33 headline and uh, especially when
00:21:33 --> 00:21:36 you're, I mean, I've spent my entire life
00:21:36 --> 00:21:39 working in this field. So it's stuff that,
00:21:39 --> 00:21:42 that has basically been second nature
00:21:42 --> 00:21:44 to me. So quite often I'll see a headline and
00:21:44 --> 00:21:47 think, but wait a minute, if that's the case,
00:21:47 --> 00:21:49 then this mustn't be right. And that
00:21:49 --> 00:21:52 mustn't be right. And that sucks me in
00:21:52 --> 00:21:54 straight away. It's like clickbait almost.
00:21:55 --> 00:21:58 And it works perfectly for me, uh, because
00:21:58 --> 00:22:00 it, I see a headline, it immediately raises
00:22:00 --> 00:22:02 questions. So yeah, I've got to look at that
00:22:02 --> 00:22:05 story. So yes, it's probably,
00:22:05 --> 00:22:07 you know, as I said, it's part of the morning
00:22:07 --> 00:22:08 routine. I would say
00:22:09 --> 00:22:12 typically half an hour, but often it's more
00:22:12 --> 00:22:14 like an hour and sometimes all morning if
00:22:14 --> 00:22:16 there's really interesting stuff going on.
00:22:17 --> 00:22:20 Heidi Campo: Well, thank you for sharing your uh, all
00:22:20 --> 00:22:21 the knowledge with us.
00:22:21 --> 00:22:24 Professor Fred Watson: Oh, well, uh, yes, it's all secondhand
00:22:24 --> 00:22:26 knowledge. Well, a lot of it is. Some of it
00:22:26 --> 00:22:28 is stuff I've worked on myself, but. But a
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 lot of, uh, what I do is really,
00:22:31 --> 00:22:34 um, in a sense, it's my way of paying homage
00:22:34 --> 00:22:36 to these fabulous scientists who are working
00:22:36 --> 00:22:38 around the world on stuff that's very close
00:22:38 --> 00:22:41 to my heart and yours, too, Heidi, in
00:22:41 --> 00:22:44 space, uh, research and astronomy.
00:22:44 --> 00:22:47 So, um, it's a great way to
00:22:47 --> 00:22:50 perhaps give back to those researchers,
00:22:50 --> 00:22:53 uh, a little bit of the kudos that, uh,
00:22:53 --> 00:22:56 they deserve, uh, on a wider platform,
00:22:56 --> 00:22:58 which is, I guess, what Space Nuts is.
00:22:58 --> 00:23:00 Heidi Campo: Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's. That's how I
00:23:00 --> 00:23:02 originally found the podcast is. I just
00:23:02 --> 00:23:04 wanted a different medium to start learning
00:23:04 --> 00:23:05 more about space. And here we are.
00:23:06 --> 00:23:08 Professor Fred Watson: There you are. Yeah, you definitely got
00:23:08 --> 00:23:09 sucked in, Heidi.
00:23:09 --> 00:23:12 Heidi Campo: I got sucked in. Your. Your, uh, your
00:23:12 --> 00:23:13 orbit was strong.
00:23:14 --> 00:23:16 All right, everybody, well, this has been
00:23:16 --> 00:23:19 another wonderful episode. Thank you so much
00:23:19 --> 00:23:21 for tuning in. Please keep your amazing
00:23:21 --> 00:23:23 questions coming. You guys really are half
00:23:23 --> 00:23:25 the show, and we appreciate you and we look
00:23:25 --> 00:23:28 forward to these questions. Um, with that
00:23:28 --> 00:23:31 being said, I have nothing else to say. Fred,
00:23:31 --> 00:23:32 do you want to sign us off?
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, just, uh, keep. Keep an eye on what's
00:23:36 --> 00:23:38 going on. Space astronomy, uh, is looking up,
00:23:38 --> 00:23:41 as we all say, uh, and it's true, certainly,
00:23:41 --> 00:23:43 of space science as well. So keep on looking
00:23:43 --> 00:23:46 up, keep on tuning into Spacenauts, and we'll
00:23:46 --> 00:23:46 catch you next time.
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50 Voice Over Guy: You've been listening to the Space Nuts
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