In this captivating episode of Space Nuts, hosts Heidi Campo and Professor Fred Watson take listeners on a journey through the latest astronomical discoveries and ongoing missions. From the stunning advancements in telescope technology to the bustling activity aboard the International Space Station, this episode is packed with cosmic insights that will leave you in awe.
Episode Highlights:
- Revolutionary Telescope Images: The episode kicks off with a discussion about a groundbreaking 8.4-meter telescope, now known as the Charles Simon Telescope. Fred shares how this state-of-the-art instrument captures breathtaking images of nebulae and galaxies in stunning detail, thanks to its massive 3.2-gigapixel camera.
- The Importance of Long-Term Projects: Heidi and Fred delve into what it takes to commit to a 30-year project in the scientific community. Fred highlights the visionaries behind the telescope's development and the significance of their dedication to uncovering the mysteries of the universe.
- Busy Times on the International Space Station: As the ISS hosts a record 11 astronauts, the hosts discuss the challenges and experiments taking place, including innovative studies on human physiology in microgravity. Among the crew is veteran astronaut Peggy Whitson, leading the AX4 mission, which focuses on understanding human interactions in space.
- Mysterious Martian Landscapes: The episode wraps up with a fascinating look at newly discovered ridges on Mars, termed "boxwork lattice" landforms. Fred explains their formation and the implications for understanding Mars' watery past, while also touching on the human tendency to see familiar shapes in alien landscapes.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
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00:00:00 --> 00:00:03 Heidi Campo: Welcome back to Space Nuts. I'm your host for
00:00:03 --> 00:00:06 this episode, Heidi Campo. And joining us today is
00:00:06 --> 00:00:07 Professor Fred Watson.
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 Voice Over Guy: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.
00:00:10 --> 00:00:13 10, 9. Ignition
00:00:13 --> 00:00:16 sequence start. Space nuts. 5, 4, 3,
00:00:16 --> 00:00:19 2. 1. 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4,
00:00:19 --> 00:00:22 3, 2, 1. Space nuts astronauts
00:00:22 --> 00:00:23 report it feels good.
00:00:24 --> 00:00:26 Heidi Campo: Fred, how are you doing today?
00:00:27 --> 00:00:30 Professor Fred Watson: Very well, thank you. It's a bit soggy in Sydney. Uh, I
00:00:30 --> 00:00:32 understand it's been a bit soggy in Houston as well
00:00:33 --> 00:00:34 with rainy weather.
00:00:34 --> 00:00:37 Heidi Campo: It has. We've been getting rain like crazy.
00:00:37 --> 00:00:40 But I'll tell you what, this time of year here in Space
00:00:40 --> 00:00:42 City is so beautiful because we have these
00:00:43 --> 00:00:46 trees. I can't remember what they're called, but they guess they get
00:00:46 --> 00:00:48 the most beautiful flowers on them. So we have all these
00:00:48 --> 00:00:51 floral, fragrant trees everywhere. So it's amazing.
00:00:51 --> 00:00:54 If you guys could come visit Space center,
00:00:54 --> 00:00:57 come check out Johnson Space center, do the tours and see our
00:00:57 --> 00:01:00 beautiful. This is a great time of year to visit.
00:01:00 --> 00:01:03 Professor Fred Watson: I think it was this time of year when we actually
00:01:03 --> 00:01:05 did that as well now, a little bit earlier.
00:01:06 --> 00:01:08 Um, so it was last year,
00:01:08 --> 00:01:11 uh, but it was a little bit earlier. I think it was about April.
00:01:12 --> 00:01:15 So we probably didn't see the best of the trees. But we certainly saw
00:01:15 --> 00:01:18 the Space Center. And your museum Houston's
00:01:18 --> 00:01:20 got the most fabulous science museum. Absolutely
00:01:20 --> 00:01:21 brilliant.
00:01:21 --> 00:01:24 Heidi Campo: We do pretty good. I'm sure you, uh, probably met some of our local
00:01:24 --> 00:01:26 mosquitoes around that time of year as well.
00:01:26 --> 00:01:27 Professor Fred Watson: Maybe.
00:01:27 --> 00:01:30 Heidi Campo: Yes, with, uh, it being in a swamp,
00:01:30 --> 00:01:33 the bayou, we certainly get a lot of mosquitoes. But,
00:01:34 --> 00:01:36 uh, with our story today, there's no
00:01:36 --> 00:01:39 mosquitoes out there in space, which is, I think,
00:01:39 --> 00:01:42 one of the attractive, uh, properties.
00:01:42 --> 00:01:45 We have some incredible stories today talking about some
00:01:45 --> 00:01:48 of the new images coming in from a
00:01:48 --> 00:01:51 revolutionary telescope. We're going to be talking
00:01:51 --> 00:01:54 a little bit about what's going on on the International
00:01:54 --> 00:01:57 Space Station. And then the
00:01:57 --> 00:02:00 last story is the one that I hope you guys stick around for
00:02:00 --> 00:02:02 because this is something I'm a little bit excited to talk to
00:02:02 --> 00:02:05 Fred about. It's these mysterious,
00:02:05 --> 00:02:08 um, ridges on Mars. And I'm so
00:02:08 --> 00:02:10 excited to hear about this, Fred.
00:02:10 --> 00:02:12 So let's, let's just kind of jump in with this
00:02:12 --> 00:02:15 telescope. I, I'm looking at
00:02:15 --> 00:02:18 these images and it's. I say this
00:02:18 --> 00:02:21 with almost everything. So you guys probably think I'm just lying at this point.
00:02:21 --> 00:02:24 But it's so beautiful. I just am. So
00:02:25 --> 00:02:28 I'm never, um, not in awe of the
00:02:28 --> 00:02:30 images I see from these telescopes.
00:02:31 --> 00:02:34 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Um, and I guess, um,
00:02:34 --> 00:02:37 what revolutionized the images that we
00:02:37 --> 00:02:40 see from modern day telescopes was the
00:02:40 --> 00:02:43 fact that we've got color in them, which certainly when I was a
00:02:43 --> 00:02:45 young astronomer back in the 1850s or whenever it
00:02:45 --> 00:02:48 was, um, there wasn't, everything was black and white, there
00:02:48 --> 00:02:51 was no color because the color emulsions weren't sensitive
00:02:51 --> 00:02:54 enough. And then my colleague David Merlin came along at the
00:02:54 --> 00:02:57 Anglo Australian telescope, figured out how to do three color
00:02:57 --> 00:03:00 imagery and put it all together to give us true color images.
00:03:00 --> 00:03:03 And that's now done electronically with um,
00:03:03 --> 00:03:06 charge coupled devices, uh,
00:03:06 --> 00:03:08 and the wonderful software
00:03:08 --> 00:03:11 that people have access to to turn these images
00:03:11 --> 00:03:14 into these beautiful, beautiful, uh,
00:03:14 --> 00:03:17 artistically graceful images that
00:03:17 --> 00:03:20 we see. Uh, and that's my segue I
00:03:20 --> 00:03:22 guess into the story. Because
00:03:23 --> 00:03:26 the camera is one of the key components.
00:03:26 --> 00:03:29 This is a brand new telescope. And the images that you're talk, talking
00:03:29 --> 00:03:31 about, Heidi, which include nebulae and
00:03:31 --> 00:03:34 galaxies and all the usual stuff that we're used to seeing, but
00:03:34 --> 00:03:37 this time in such detail and with
00:03:37 --> 00:03:40 such, uh, imposing
00:03:40 --> 00:03:42 colors is perhaps the wrong way to say it. But um,
00:03:42 --> 00:03:45 you know, you really feel as though you're actually in the action there
00:03:45 --> 00:03:48 with the, with the um, the nebulae and the
00:03:48 --> 00:03:51 galaxies. Uh, the, the secret of that is first of
00:03:51 --> 00:03:54 all the telescope itself is an 8.4
00:03:54 --> 00:03:56 meter diameter telescope. That's the
00:03:56 --> 00:03:59 biggest scale of telescopes that we have access to at the moment,
00:03:59 --> 00:04:02 the 8 meter telescopes. It's on a mountaintop
00:04:02 --> 00:04:05 called Cerro Pashon in uh, northern Chile.
00:04:05 --> 00:04:08 I've, uh, not actually visited the mountain, but I've seen
00:04:08 --> 00:04:11 it uh, from the other side of the valley. Uh,
00:04:11 --> 00:04:14 there uh, are several telescopes up there. But um,
00:04:14 --> 00:04:17 what makes it special is two things. The wide angle
00:04:17 --> 00:04:20 of view that the telescope can see. So
00:04:20 --> 00:04:23 instead of just homing in on a tiny fine little bit
00:04:23 --> 00:04:25 of detail, uh, in the sky, it
00:04:25 --> 00:04:28 does that, but it does it with a very wide angle of view.
00:04:28 --> 00:04:31 So you see detail everywhere. And that
00:04:31 --> 00:04:34 is partly because the design of the telescope, but also
00:04:34 --> 00:04:37 and the segue I was getting to. It's taken me a while. Uh,
00:04:37 --> 00:04:39 the camera, which is a
00:04:39 --> 00:04:41 3.2, 3200
00:04:42 --> 00:04:45 megapixel or 3.2 gigapixel camera,
00:04:45 --> 00:04:48 I think it's the biggest camera of its kind in
00:04:48 --> 00:04:50 the world. It's the size of a small car. Uh, and
00:04:50 --> 00:04:53 it sits at the focus of this telescope, recording
00:04:53 --> 00:04:56 these breathtaking wide angle images.
00:04:57 --> 00:04:59 Um, the instrument we're talking about,
00:05:00 --> 00:05:03 uh, we used to, it's been, this has been in construction for
00:05:04 --> 00:05:07 best part of 30 years. We've been talking about this telescope
00:05:07 --> 00:05:10 in the world of astronomy. And at first it was called
00:05:10 --> 00:05:12 the lsst, which was the Large
00:05:12 --> 00:05:15 Synoptic Survey Telescope. Uh,
00:05:15 --> 00:05:18 it's now called, I think I'm right in saying it's the
00:05:18 --> 00:05:20 Charles Simony Telescope because I think Charles
00:05:20 --> 00:05:23 Simony, a very well known name in space,
00:05:24 --> 00:05:27 um, philanthropy, I think I can put it that way. I think he was
00:05:27 --> 00:05:29 the first paying customer on the International
00:05:30 --> 00:05:32 Space Station back in the early
00:05:32 --> 00:05:35 2000s. So a wealthy person,
00:05:35 --> 00:05:38 but somebody who can put that wealth to good use
00:05:38 --> 00:05:41 in a scientific sense. But the observatory
00:05:42 --> 00:05:44 itself, where this telescope is, uh, is
00:05:44 --> 00:05:47 named after one of my favorite characters
00:05:47 --> 00:05:50 in the whole of astronomy, Vera C.
00:05:50 --> 00:05:52 Rubin, uh, whose name might be
00:05:52 --> 00:05:55 familiar to you. She is, uh, she was a
00:05:55 --> 00:05:58 compatriot of yours. I can't remember where she grew up
00:05:58 --> 00:06:01 actually. Should, should have checked that, shouldn't I?
00:06:01 --> 00:06:03 Vera We. She was one of the, the
00:06:03 --> 00:06:06 pioneering, uh, uh, astronomers of her
00:06:06 --> 00:06:09 time. She died in 2016,
00:06:09 --> 00:06:12 Christmas Day, if I remember rightly. She passed away. She was a
00:06:12 --> 00:06:15 good age, wonderful, wonderful person.
00:06:16 --> 00:06:18 Um, very great champion for women in science,
00:06:19 --> 00:06:21 uh, and uh, somebody who
00:06:22 --> 00:06:25 put her stamp not just on the science itself, but
00:06:25 --> 00:06:28 on the capabilities for astronomers.
00:06:28 --> 00:06:31 She basically was the person who put dark
00:06:31 --> 00:06:34 matter not so much on the map, uh,
00:06:34 --> 00:06:36 but raised awareness that this was a real
00:06:36 --> 00:06:39 issue, uh, that there was something out there that
00:06:39 --> 00:06:42 weighed, um, much more than the normal matter
00:06:42 --> 00:06:44 that we can see. Uh, that was,
00:06:44 --> 00:06:47 um, basically, uh, something we
00:06:47 --> 00:06:50 needed to explain. Dark matter. She wrote a
00:06:50 --> 00:06:53 series of really influential papers in the late
00:06:53 --> 00:06:56 1970s. That's amazing. Yeah,
00:06:56 --> 00:06:59 so she was an extraordinary woman. So it's fabulous that this telescope
00:06:59 --> 00:07:02 carries, or the observatory carries her name. So the Vera
00:07:02 --> 00:07:03 C. Rubin Observatory.
00:07:04 --> 00:07:07 Heidi Campo: So Fred, I've kind of got a little bit of a
00:07:07 --> 00:07:10 detour question for you. So get your thinking cap
00:07:10 --> 00:07:12 on. You know, when we talk about these,
00:07:13 --> 00:07:16 these telescopes, you said a couple things that stood out to me.
00:07:16 --> 00:07:18 You know, one about, ah, this woman who
00:07:18 --> 00:07:21 sounded like just an incredible human being
00:07:21 --> 00:07:24 who really left her mark on the world. But the one thing that really stuck
00:07:24 --> 00:07:27 out to me is you said this telescope took 30 years to build.
00:07:27 --> 00:07:30 And so I know a lot of our listeners are
00:07:30 --> 00:07:33 people who are still maybe in school or
00:07:33 --> 00:07:36 considering a field in these sciences or
00:07:36 --> 00:07:39 they're early career professionals. Can you
00:07:39 --> 00:07:42 talk a little bit about what it's like to put,
00:07:42 --> 00:07:45 to dedicate yourself to a project that's going to take
00:07:45 --> 00:07:48 30 years? It's your life's work. How do you
00:07:48 --> 00:07:50 choose to, at maybe
00:07:50 --> 00:07:53 25 years old to say, I'm going to.
00:07:53 --> 00:07:56 This is Something I'm passionate about. And I'm going to work on this for 30
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58 years. Like, how do people do that?
00:07:59 --> 00:08:02 Professor Fred Watson: Well, they do. It's a really good question. Um,
00:08:02 --> 00:08:05 so with the, with the telescope,
00:08:05 --> 00:08:07 um, it was the brainchild of a few people.
00:08:08 --> 00:08:10 Um, and I haven't really got to the
00:08:11 --> 00:08:13 main issue that this telescope will do. I'll
00:08:14 --> 00:08:16 keep talking about your, your question.
00:08:17 --> 00:08:19 Uh, but the main point about this telescope is that it
00:08:19 --> 00:08:22 can survey the entire southern
00:08:22 --> 00:08:24 sky every three nights.
00:08:25 --> 00:08:28 So it's got the capability to record
00:08:28 --> 00:08:31 the whole sky in detail every three nights.
00:08:31 --> 00:08:34 So what it's really looking for are
00:08:34 --> 00:08:36 things that change, and that includes
00:08:37 --> 00:08:40 things changing their position, which is asteroids. In
00:08:40 --> 00:08:42 the first 10 hours of observing, it discovered
00:08:42 --> 00:08:44 2 asteroids, which is, you know,
00:08:44 --> 00:08:47 it's going to really start changing our view
00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 of the Earth's, uh, locality in space.
00:08:50 --> 00:08:53 Uh, and also things that go bump in the night, you know,
00:08:53 --> 00:08:56 the supernova explosions, things of that sort. This will
00:08:56 --> 00:08:59 be the telescope for picking that up. So,
00:08:59 --> 00:09:01 yes, 30 years ago, people were
00:09:02 --> 00:09:04 thinking, what we need is, uh,
00:09:04 --> 00:09:07 something that can tell us about
00:09:07 --> 00:09:10 an aspect of the universe. Excuse me. That had
00:09:10 --> 00:09:13 never really been thought about before. And that is the way things
00:09:13 --> 00:09:16 come and go. Because we, you know,
00:09:16 --> 00:09:19 in traditional astronomy, uh, okay,
00:09:19 --> 00:09:22 things change in the solar system. The planets are going around on short
00:09:22 --> 00:09:25 timescales. But, uh, it's only
00:09:25 --> 00:09:28 recently been realized that there are
00:09:28 --> 00:09:31 things happening everywhere that happen on
00:09:31 --> 00:09:34 short timescales. You know, like black hole mergers,
00:09:34 --> 00:09:36 like neutron star collisions, like supernova
00:09:36 --> 00:09:39 explosions. Stars that have got to the ends of their lives and
00:09:40 --> 00:09:42 basically blown themselves to pieces. So
00:09:42 --> 00:09:45 that was the vision for. That was seen by a
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 few scientists yet 30 years ago, um,
00:09:48 --> 00:09:51 and they began working towards
00:09:52 --> 00:09:54 raising the funding, raising the technology.
00:09:55 --> 00:09:57 The technology just didn't exist back then to build a
00:09:57 --> 00:10:00 telescope of this kind, uh, and eventually to get
00:10:00 --> 00:10:02 it made. So some of those, um, people
00:10:03 --> 00:10:06 right at the outset were quite senior people with the vision
00:10:06 --> 00:10:09 to see what might, you know, what might occur. And they are,
00:10:09 --> 00:10:12 probably, some of them are no longer with us, but they would have
00:10:12 --> 00:10:15 had students and postdoctoral
00:10:15 --> 00:10:17 fellows working with them. And they're the people,
00:10:17 --> 00:10:20 uh, in exactly the way that you've just described.
00:10:20 --> 00:10:23 They have seen what the potential
00:10:23 --> 00:10:26 is for a project like this, and they've
00:10:26 --> 00:10:29 put their noses to the grindstone, uh, and
00:10:29 --> 00:10:32 stuck in there to, um, eventually
00:10:33 --> 00:10:35 see, ah, the moment that we're seeing now,
00:10:36 --> 00:10:39 the start of this telescope, the first light in images that
00:10:39 --> 00:10:41 we're seeing. So for those people, you know, this
00:10:41 --> 00:10:44 must feel like a triumph for Those postdocs and
00:10:44 --> 00:10:46 PhD students who were working on that.
00:10:47 --> 00:10:50 Um, just another example though, of this. And
00:10:50 --> 00:10:53 we're spending a bit longer than we probably should on this
00:10:53 --> 00:10:56 story, but, um, the same is
00:10:56 --> 00:10:59 true in space missions, and in fact,
00:10:59 --> 00:11:02 uh, even more so because, uh, there's no
00:11:02 --> 00:11:04 quick fix if you're doing a science space mission.
00:11:05 --> 00:11:08 Um, and the one example that, um. Excuse me, I've got an
00:11:08 --> 00:11:11 itch on my nose. Uh, the one example that comes, uh,
00:11:11 --> 00:11:14 to mind is somebody who Marnie and I know
00:11:14 --> 00:11:16 quite well, Linda Spilker. She was the,
00:11:17 --> 00:11:20 uh, project scientist for the Cassini mission,
00:11:20 --> 00:11:23 uh, NASA's mission, uh, in orbit
00:11:23 --> 00:11:25 around Saturn from. Was it
00:11:25 --> 00:11:28 2004 to 2017. It was in orbit
00:11:28 --> 00:11:30 around Saturn. And she basically dedicated
00:11:30 --> 00:11:33 her life, uh, to that
00:11:33 --> 00:11:36 project. She started off working
00:11:36 --> 00:11:39 on Voyager, in fact, at the beginning of her
00:11:39 --> 00:11:42 career, which was one of the pioneering ones, but then
00:11:42 --> 00:11:45 switched to a mission to go to Saturn and
00:11:45 --> 00:11:48 worked on that for probably more than 20
00:11:48 --> 00:11:51 years, uh, culminating in being the mission
00:11:51 --> 00:11:53 scientist. I think that was one of the best
00:11:53 --> 00:11:56 space missions that's ever, ever happened because
00:11:56 --> 00:11:59 we learned so much. But she's now working on,
00:11:59 --> 00:12:01 um, uh, the possibility of sending
00:12:01 --> 00:12:04 spacecrafts to some of Saturn's moons, like, um,
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07 Enceladus, where we think, well, we know there's an ocean of water
00:12:07 --> 00:12:10 underneath the icy surface. So,
00:12:10 --> 00:12:13 um, in some ways people start off,
00:12:13 --> 00:12:16 you know, with one project, but it
00:12:16 --> 00:12:19 germinates into something else that does become their life's
00:12:19 --> 00:12:21 work. That's certainly what happened with Linda.
00:12:21 --> 00:12:24 So, uh, yes, for the people who were involved right at the
00:12:24 --> 00:12:27 outset of the Vera C. Rubin Observatory, or
00:12:27 --> 00:12:30 the LSST as we used to call it, um,
00:12:30 --> 00:12:33 this must be a moment to savor. And, you know, I'm, um,
00:12:33 --> 00:12:36 sure there are people out there who are in exactly the
00:12:36 --> 00:12:37 situation that you've described.
00:12:38 --> 00:12:41 Heidi Campo: That is the. That is such a cool part of
00:12:41 --> 00:12:44 these sciences is the things that we do. We may never
00:12:44 --> 00:12:47 see the fruits of those labors in our lifetime.
00:12:47 --> 00:12:50 And so the people who really commit to the
00:12:50 --> 00:12:53 true visionaries, not just the people who want to do
00:12:53 --> 00:12:55 it for a title or, you know, getting the
00:12:55 --> 00:12:58 Netflix documentary, the people who really want to change the
00:12:58 --> 00:13:01 future is usually a future they may never live to
00:13:01 --> 00:13:03 see. And they know that, but they commit to, uh,
00:13:04 --> 00:13:07 dedicating their life to this work. And it's. That's just
00:13:07 --> 00:13:10 amazing and selfless to me. And, you
00:13:10 --> 00:13:13 know, there's. There's a lot, um, to be said
00:13:13 --> 00:13:16 about the leaps that we make with the people
00:13:16 --> 00:13:19 who think that way. But we also need the people
00:13:19 --> 00:13:21 who are going to go out there and then, you know, do the
00:13:21 --> 00:13:24 work. The people who are going to make that vision, actualize
00:13:24 --> 00:13:27 it. And those are the astronauts who are out there living
00:13:27 --> 00:13:30 on the space station right now. These are the people who are
00:13:31 --> 00:13:33 building on the sciences that we've been working
00:13:33 --> 00:13:36 on since, you know,
00:13:36 --> 00:13:38 Galileo. This is stuff
00:13:38 --> 00:13:40 humanity's been working on for a long time.
00:13:45 --> 00:13:46 Space nuts.
00:13:46 --> 00:13:49 So with that being said, I think that's a good segue into
00:13:49 --> 00:13:52 talking about what's going on on the space station
00:13:52 --> 00:13:53 right now.
00:13:54 --> 00:13:57 Professor Fred Watson: Um, and it's a busy time. Um,
00:13:57 --> 00:14:00 um, I was, ah, struck when I
00:14:00 --> 00:14:03 looked, you know, kept an eye, try and keep an eye on what's going on
00:14:03 --> 00:14:05 on the space station. But we've got,
00:14:05 --> 00:14:08 um, it's getting a bit crowded up there, I have
00:14:08 --> 00:14:11 to say. So at the moment we
00:14:11 --> 00:14:14 have 11 astronauts, uh, living on the
00:14:14 --> 00:14:17 space station. Um, and I was
00:14:17 --> 00:14:20 interested to read that they've all sort of, um,
00:14:20 --> 00:14:23 divvied up all the sleep stations that there are. And the
00:14:23 --> 00:14:26 various people are sleeping in effectively
00:14:26 --> 00:14:29 cupboards and, you know, um, work
00:14:29 --> 00:14:32 rooms and things of that sort, uh, so that they all have their
00:14:32 --> 00:14:35 sleep stat. Ah. So what's caused this? There
00:14:35 --> 00:14:37 are currently seven astronauts,
00:14:37 --> 00:14:40 uh, NASA astronauts who are the
00:14:40 --> 00:14:43 working sort of standard astronauts, uh,
00:14:43 --> 00:14:46 on the space station. Uh, they are a member of what's
00:14:46 --> 00:14:49 called Expedition 73, um, those seven
00:14:49 --> 00:14:51 astronauts, but they've been joined by four
00:14:52 --> 00:14:55 privately funded astronauts, uh, on a mission
00:14:55 --> 00:14:57 called the AX4 mission. It's AXION Space
00:14:57 --> 00:15:00 that is doing that with specific, um,
00:15:01 --> 00:15:04 requirements for experiments. I think
00:15:04 --> 00:15:07 Axiom have got something like they've got two
00:15:07 --> 00:15:09 weeks on the space station and I think they've got, I don't know,
00:15:09 --> 00:15:12 three, five dozen or something experiments that
00:15:12 --> 00:15:15 they've got to do, uh, some of which, um, are
00:15:15 --> 00:15:18 very much along the lines of your own
00:15:18 --> 00:15:20 interests. Heidi, because it's all about human,
00:15:21 --> 00:15:23 you know, the way humans interact with space. I was really
00:15:23 --> 00:15:26 interested to read that one of the experiments was
00:15:26 --> 00:15:29 something called the thigh cough. And
00:15:29 --> 00:15:32 uh, a thigh cuff is a tight cuff
00:15:32 --> 00:15:35 on your thigh, obviously. Uh, and it's all
00:15:35 --> 00:15:38 about trying to change the way the fluids move
00:15:38 --> 00:15:41 in your body. Because in weightlessness the
00:15:41 --> 00:15:44 fluids in your body do unusual things,
00:15:44 --> 00:15:47 uh, and they tend to pool inside your head, which is
00:15:47 --> 00:15:50 not a good thing. Um, and so
00:15:50 --> 00:15:52 basically, um, that's uh,
00:15:53 --> 00:15:56 one of the experiments that's been done. I don't know whether you're
00:15:56 --> 00:15:58 familiar with, uh, the use of thigh.
00:15:59 --> 00:16:02 Heidi Campo: Yeah, so I was reading this right now and, and at
00:16:02 --> 00:16:05 the risk of sounding foolish in case, um, anyone
00:16:05 --> 00:16:07 out there is listening who knows a lot more about this than me, I
00:16:07 --> 00:16:10 was reading this article to try and see if they specify if this
00:16:10 --> 00:16:13 thigh cuff is BFR technology or if it's
00:16:13 --> 00:16:16 separate. Because, you know, I don't. I don't know everything.
00:16:16 --> 00:16:19 But, um, I think I'm saying think
00:16:19 --> 00:16:22 and italicized right now. I think when they're talking
00:16:22 --> 00:16:24 about a thigh cuff, what they're talking is
00:16:26 --> 00:16:28 talking about is what they call BFR technology, which
00:16:28 --> 00:16:31 stands for blood flow restriction technology.
00:16:31 --> 00:16:34 That is, um, a
00:16:34 --> 00:16:37 training and exercise technique that's used here on
00:16:37 --> 00:16:40 Earth. It's actually become quite popular with bodybuilders
00:16:40 --> 00:16:42 because they've realized that they can get, um,
00:16:42 --> 00:16:45 greater muscular hypertrophy benefits when
00:16:45 --> 00:16:48 training that way. And if you guys don't know what
00:16:48 --> 00:16:51 muscular hypertrophy means, that's increasing the
00:16:51 --> 00:16:54 muscle size. So in space, one of our big
00:16:54 --> 00:16:57 problems is muscle atrophy. We're losing
00:16:57 --> 00:16:59 muscles, we're losing bone density. So
00:16:59 --> 00:17:02 when we train with blood flow restriction, it
00:17:02 --> 00:17:05 helps sort of expedite, you know, there's
00:17:05 --> 00:17:08 no shortcuts, but it does enhance the effects of
00:17:08 --> 00:17:11 exercise. And the more
00:17:11 --> 00:17:13 interesting thing, I don't know if it's more interesting, but an
00:17:13 --> 00:17:16 additional benefit is they're actually using it
00:17:16 --> 00:17:19 to help mitigate the effects of Sands right now as well.
00:17:21 --> 00:17:23 Professor Fred Watson: The effect of. Sorry, I missed the word you said there.
00:17:23 --> 00:17:26 Heidi Campo: Sans. Sans. S A, N, S.
00:17:27 --> 00:17:30 I'm, um, surprised you haven't heard about that one. I got to teach you something.
00:17:30 --> 00:17:33 Um, Sans is a neuro
00:17:33 --> 00:17:36 ocular syndrome which affects
00:17:36 --> 00:17:38 vision of astronauts in space.
00:17:38 --> 00:17:39 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:17:39 --> 00:17:40 Heidi Campo: So their vision.
00:17:40 --> 00:17:41 Professor Fred Watson: Didn't know it was called that.
00:17:41 --> 00:17:44 Heidi Campo: Yeah, yeah, it has a. Has its own
00:17:44 --> 00:17:46 acronym, just like everything else up there.
00:17:47 --> 00:17:50 Professor Fred Watson: So, um, yeah, that's quite a serious one because that's one of
00:17:50 --> 00:17:53 the. I think that's one of the deleterious
00:17:53 --> 00:17:56 effects that spaceflight, um, has that does
00:17:56 --> 00:17:58 not recover when you get back to
00:17:59 --> 00:18:00 normal, uh, gravity.
00:18:00 --> 00:18:03 Heidi Campo: Sometimes it does. Okay, so
00:18:03 --> 00:18:06 sometimes it improves, sometimes it doesn't improve.
00:18:06 --> 00:18:09 Sometimes they make a little bit of progress. And there have been
00:18:09 --> 00:18:12 cases, believe it or not, where crew members have
00:18:12 --> 00:18:15 gone up needing prescription glasses and
00:18:16 --> 00:18:18 have had to wear prescription glasses their whole
00:18:18 --> 00:18:21 life. And they go up there and they come back and their,
00:18:21 --> 00:18:24 their prescription is fixed. And they've
00:18:24 --> 00:18:27 joked, uh, the joke was made when I was at this presentation. They're like,
00:18:27 --> 00:18:29 yeah, that was the most expensive eye corrective surgery ever.
00:18:32 --> 00:18:34 Professor Fred Watson: But, yeah, that's, uh, that's fantastic. Um,
00:18:34 --> 00:18:37 look, I had not heard that. So, yeah, if
00:18:37 --> 00:18:40 you want to fix your eye problems, um, go
00:18:40 --> 00:18:41 into space.
00:18:41 --> 00:18:43 Heidi Campo: Or make it worse. It's a roll the dice.
00:18:43 --> 00:18:45 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. My way. Yes, it's. It's,
00:18:46 --> 00:18:49 uh, it's a bit of a toss up as to which way
00:18:49 --> 00:18:50 it goes.
00:18:50 --> 00:18:53 Um, um, so just, you know,
00:18:53 --> 00:18:56 celebrating the fact that we do have such a busy space
00:18:56 --> 00:18:58 station at the moment. Um, the,
00:18:58 --> 00:19:00 um, leader of expedition, uh,
00:19:01 --> 00:19:04 70. I beg your pardon. The leader of the
00:19:04 --> 00:19:07 Axion crew. Axion 4 crew
00:19:07 --> 00:19:09 is, uh. And this is the privately
00:19:10 --> 00:19:12 funded one, uh, is actually Peggy
00:19:12 --> 00:19:15 Whitson, who's a big name in
00:19:15 --> 00:19:18 astronaut circles. I think she holds one
00:19:18 --> 00:19:20 of the records for, uh.
00:19:20 --> 00:19:23 Yes, the record for the most time in space by an
00:19:23 --> 00:19:26 American and worldwide by a woman.
00:19:26 --> 00:19:29 So she is very much a veteran of
00:19:29 --> 00:19:31 spaceflight. And what, um, you know,
00:19:32 --> 00:19:35 you didn't really imagine a better leader for a
00:19:35 --> 00:19:37 flight crew than somebody like Peggy. And the other thing
00:19:38 --> 00:19:41 I liked is that, um, not only is the
00:19:41 --> 00:19:44 space station getting pretty full, but all the
00:19:44 --> 00:19:47 parking spaces are getting used up as well
00:19:47 --> 00:19:49 because there are three docked
00:19:49 --> 00:19:52 crew spacecraft, uh, at the
00:19:52 --> 00:19:55 moment, and there are two docked cargo
00:19:55 --> 00:19:58 spacecraft at the moment as well. And you know, there's
00:19:58 --> 00:20:00 not that many docking ports on the International
00:20:00 --> 00:20:03 Space Station. So I think they're running out of space up
00:20:03 --> 00:20:06 there. It's great to see it being so
00:20:06 --> 00:20:09 busy at the moment, given that we're probably going
00:20:09 --> 00:20:12 to use it, lose it in five years time. So
00:20:12 --> 00:20:13 make the most of it.
00:20:13 --> 00:20:16 Heidi Campo: Yeah, yeah, it'll be, uh. It's a. It's
00:20:16 --> 00:20:18 amazing what's going on up there. It really is.
00:20:18 --> 00:20:21 And I actually, I just forgot to also mention, speaking of busy, I
00:20:21 --> 00:20:23 think today's International Asteroid Day.
00:20:25 --> 00:20:27 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, okay.
00:20:27 --> 00:20:29 Heidi Campo: I think I saw that on LinkedIn.
00:20:29 --> 00:20:32 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, it's, uh. So that celebrates. I think, if I remember
00:20:32 --> 00:20:35 rightly, International Asteroid Day is
00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 the day of the Tunguska, uh,
00:20:38 --> 00:20:41 um, meteorite or asteroid impact, which happened
00:20:41 --> 00:20:43 in, um, in Siberia in
00:20:43 --> 00:20:44 1908.
00:20:45 --> 00:20:47 Heidi Campo: Uh. Is that the one that got the dinosaurs?
00:20:47 --> 00:20:50 Professor Fred Watson: No, no, that's right. No, that was 66 million years ago.
00:20:51 --> 00:20:54 Yeah, this was only a century ago.
00:20:55 --> 00:20:56 Uh, let's just do.
00:20:57 --> 00:20:58 Heidi Campo: Just trying to keep our listeners on their feet.
00:20:59 --> 00:21:01 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, absolutely. Asteroid day
00:21:01 --> 00:21:04 2025. Um. Oh, yes, it's
00:21:04 --> 00:21:07 yesterday our time. It's the 30th of June.
00:21:07 --> 00:21:10 You're absolutely right. And it's what, um, that's the
00:21:10 --> 00:21:12 celebration that you, uh, that it's the date of
00:21:12 --> 00:21:15 the, um. The same day as the 1908
00:21:15 --> 00:21:17 Tunguska event, so.
00:21:17 --> 00:21:19 Heidi Campo: Well, Happy asteroid day, Fred.
00:21:19 --> 00:21:20 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, and you too.
00:21:22 --> 00:21:25 I did my master. Sorry, go on, you go.
00:21:25 --> 00:21:28 No, I was just going to say I did my master's degree on um,
00:21:28 --> 00:21:31 researching um, asteroid orbits with these newfangled things called
00:21:31 --> 00:21:34 computers. Um, and uh, in those days it was very
00:21:34 --> 00:21:37 unfash fashionable to be interested in asteroids, but it's not
00:21:37 --> 00:21:39 now because we're all interested in asteroids.
00:21:40 --> 00:21:41 Who knows what they might do.
00:21:45 --> 00:21:47 Heidi Campo: Space nuts. Yeah.
00:21:47 --> 00:21:50 Speaking of asteroids, do they have anything
00:21:50 --> 00:21:52 to do with these weird
00:21:52 --> 00:21:55 landscapes on Mars? I have been, I
00:21:55 --> 00:21:58 was uh, scrolling on social media a couple days ago and I came
00:21:58 --> 00:22:00 across these images of these
00:22:01 --> 00:22:04 weird ridges and craters on Mars. And
00:22:04 --> 00:22:07 it's weird, the shadows almost, some of the pictures
00:22:07 --> 00:22:10 I was looking at, the shadows almost looked like trees.
00:22:10 --> 00:22:12 And for a second I had this weird. And I was fantasizing
00:22:13 --> 00:22:16 Mars terraformed, but it not looking
00:22:16 --> 00:22:18 like Earth, it looking like an alien
00:22:19 --> 00:22:22 Earth, you know, and I was like, wow, that'd be so weird. But yeah.
00:22:22 --> 00:22:24 What is going on with this landscape?
00:22:25 --> 00:22:28 Professor Fred Watson: Um, it's a surprise actually to everybody, uh,
00:22:28 --> 00:22:31 including you and me. So uh,
00:22:32 --> 00:22:35 and this comes from Curiosity, uh, the rover
00:22:35 --> 00:22:38 that's been working hard on the uh, surface
00:22:38 --> 00:22:40 of Mars for, What was it,
00:22:40 --> 00:22:42 2012 when
00:22:42 --> 00:22:45 Curiosity landed? I think it was a long time ago.
00:22:45 --> 00:22:48 Um, so Curiosity is at a place called uh,
00:22:49 --> 00:22:50 um, Gale Crater
00:22:51 --> 00:22:54 2014. Okay. Gale Crater
00:22:54 --> 00:22:57 has a mountain on it called Mount Sharp. And uh,
00:22:57 --> 00:22:59 that's what the spacecraft was designed to
00:22:59 --> 00:23:02 explore, which has done very well. But we've got
00:23:03 --> 00:23:05 um, in Gale Crater we've now got this
00:23:05 --> 00:23:08 new form of a landform that has never
00:23:08 --> 00:23:11 been seen before. Um, and
00:23:11 --> 00:23:14 it's, they're calling it the boxwork lattice,
00:23:14 --> 00:23:17 uh, landform. Um, and
00:23:17 --> 00:23:20 that sort of gives you an idea of what it might look like.
00:23:20 --> 00:23:23 You know, some of these, I'm m actually
00:23:23 --> 00:23:26 thinking perhaps it's just the way my mind
00:23:26 --> 00:23:28 works. But I'm thinking of those inserts that sometimes
00:23:28 --> 00:23:31 go in a box of a dozen bottles of wine,
00:23:32 --> 00:23:35 uh, because they have cardboard inserts uh, in them that
00:23:35 --> 00:23:38 are sort of like this lattice shape. And I think that's
00:23:38 --> 00:23:40 the shape of these ridges that have been found. They're not,
00:23:40 --> 00:23:43 you know, they're not very deep, they're only a few
00:23:43 --> 00:23:45 inches high, but
00:23:46 --> 00:23:49 they're ridges in an absolute pattern,
00:23:49 --> 00:23:51 um, very boxy looking pattern
00:23:52 --> 00:23:55 and they haven't been seen before. And so uh,
00:23:55 --> 00:23:58 that is exciting. The planetary scientists who
00:23:58 --> 00:24:01 are looking at the results coming from Curiosity.
00:24:01 --> 00:24:04 Um, and so of course the first thing you have to do is work
00:24:04 --> 00:24:07 out what you think Might have caused them.
00:24:07 --> 00:24:09 Uh, and the current theory
00:24:10 --> 00:24:13 is that uh, when Mars was
00:24:13 --> 00:24:16 drying out, and this is probably 3.8 billion years ago,
00:24:16 --> 00:24:19 because we know it was warm and wet before that. But when it
00:24:19 --> 00:24:21 was drying out, there was probably a very dry
00:24:21 --> 00:24:24 surface, but with groundwater
00:24:24 --> 00:24:27 that was underneath the surface. And
00:24:27 --> 00:24:30 um, that groundwater would have been rich in
00:24:30 --> 00:24:32 minerals. And basically, uh, what
00:24:32 --> 00:24:35 it did was came up through cracks in the
00:24:35 --> 00:24:38 bedrock. So the bedrock itself has had to crack
00:24:39 --> 00:24:41 and let the groundwater up through the
00:24:41 --> 00:24:44 cracks. And what we then see, uh, is
00:24:46 --> 00:24:49 the groundwater disappears, it leaves the minerals behind.
00:24:49 --> 00:24:51 The minerals are harder than the, the bedrock
00:24:51 --> 00:24:54 itself. And so as the bedrock wears away
00:24:54 --> 00:24:57 with the effect of dust and wind over
00:24:57 --> 00:25:00 the last 3.8 billion years, you're left with
00:25:00 --> 00:25:03 this, um, almost a structure that
00:25:03 --> 00:25:05 looks a bit like a curb, uh, you know, on a
00:25:05 --> 00:25:08 roadway. Uh, but it's, but it's shaped in a, in a
00:25:08 --> 00:25:11 boxy pattern. So. Yes, quite
00:25:11 --> 00:25:14 remarkable that uh, we're
00:25:14 --> 00:25:17 seeing new landforms that have not been identified
00:25:17 --> 00:25:20 before. And of course all of this helps by telling us
00:25:20 --> 00:25:22 about the history of Mars and the confirming, uh,
00:25:23 --> 00:25:26 perhaps yet again that Mars once had a lot more water than
00:25:26 --> 00:25:26 it does now.
00:25:27 --> 00:25:30 Heidi Campo: I'm also looking at some searches and the conspiracy
00:25:30 --> 00:25:33 theorists are going crazy with it's remnants of a city.
00:25:34 --> 00:25:37 Professor Fred Watson: Okay. Oh, yes, I never thought of that.
00:25:40 --> 00:25:43 Yeah. Remnants of a city. Well, that's right, you know, um,
00:25:43 --> 00:25:46 of course, um, pareidolia.
00:25:46 --> 00:25:49 That's the, uh. Ah, do you know about
00:25:49 --> 00:25:51 pareidolia? It's a lovely word. It's,
00:25:52 --> 00:25:55 I'm sure you've come across it. Yeah, it's when you see
00:25:55 --> 00:25:58 familiar things, uh, in
00:25:58 --> 00:26:00 objects that have nothing to do with them. So when you see
00:26:02 --> 00:26:04 figures in clouds, or when you see
00:26:04 --> 00:26:07 rocks that are shaped like um,
00:26:08 --> 00:26:11 a truck tire or a spoon
00:26:11 --> 00:26:14 or whatever, um, it's our inbuilt
00:26:14 --> 00:26:17 ability to recognize shapes in things that are quite
00:26:17 --> 00:26:20 unrelated. Um, and of course the classic
00:26:20 --> 00:26:23 one on Mars was the face on Mars from the Viking
00:26:23 --> 00:26:25 orbiters back in 1976. This
00:26:25 --> 00:26:28 clearly a human face on Mars. And
00:26:28 --> 00:26:31 uh, it gained so much. It
00:26:31 --> 00:26:34 was a giant, it was a landform actually. But it
00:26:34 --> 00:26:37 gained so much publicity that NASA
00:26:37 --> 00:26:39 actually changed the orbit of their next
00:26:39 --> 00:26:42 spacecraft so that it would fly over this area
00:26:42 --> 00:26:45 and take images. And of course we could see it was just a crumbling
00:26:45 --> 00:26:48 mountaintop, uh, not a face at all.
00:26:48 --> 00:26:51 Heidi Campo: It inspired that weird movie Mission to Mars. Did you
00:26:51 --> 00:26:51 see that one?
00:26:52 --> 00:26:53 Professor Fred Watson: Um, may have done.
00:26:55 --> 00:26:57 Heidi Campo: It was goofy. It scared me when I was a little kid.
00:26:58 --> 00:27:00 There's like A tornado and an alien.
00:27:00 --> 00:27:03 Professor Fred Watson: And probably scared me too.
00:27:04 --> 00:27:07 Heidi Campo: Yeah, it's, you know, the humans, the human's ability
00:27:07 --> 00:27:10 for recognition. You know, I think about, um,
00:27:10 --> 00:27:13 AI and how AI is getting really good at recognizing
00:27:13 --> 00:27:16 things, but the human brain's ability
00:27:16 --> 00:27:19 to make these recognition, I. I still think
00:27:19 --> 00:27:21 it's unmatched. I don't know. The technology is probably
00:27:21 --> 00:27:24 catching up, but it really is fascinating,
00:27:24 --> 00:27:27 like recognizing emotion and very, very
00:27:27 --> 00:27:30 subtle changes on the human. On the human face.
00:27:30 --> 00:27:32 Have you ever heard of the term the uncanny valley?
00:27:33 --> 00:27:35 Professor Fred Watson: Oh, no, I haven't. No.
00:27:35 --> 00:27:38 Heidi Campo: It's a. It's a term used a lot in,
00:27:38 --> 00:27:41 um, like, film design, like, in, like,
00:27:41 --> 00:27:43 scary movies. But it's, uh,
00:27:43 --> 00:27:46 also in, like, art and anthropology. But long
00:27:46 --> 00:27:49 story short, the uncanny valley, if you're looking at a
00:27:49 --> 00:27:52 cartoon face of Mickey Mouse where it's like, okay, it's kind of
00:27:52 --> 00:27:55 like human, there's an eyes, nose and mouth. Mickey
00:27:55 --> 00:27:58 Mouse's face is not scary at all. It's just cute and cartoony,
00:27:58 --> 00:28:01 but the more realistic it gets.
00:28:01 --> 00:28:04 But it's still cartoonish. There's a
00:28:04 --> 00:28:07 point where it starts becoming scary. And that's
00:28:07 --> 00:28:09 where a lot of, like, people will. Will use the
00:28:09 --> 00:28:12 example of the movie the Polar Express, where the
00:28:12 --> 00:28:15 CGI was really good, very human,
00:28:15 --> 00:28:18 like, but there was like a blank, blank stare
00:28:18 --> 00:28:21 and the emotions weren't quite right. So they call it the
00:28:21 --> 00:28:24 uncanny valley because it's. It's
00:28:24 --> 00:28:27 a point where we see
00:28:27 --> 00:28:30 something that's almost human, but it's not quite human and
00:28:30 --> 00:28:32 we don't like it. It makes us feel unsettled.
00:28:32 --> 00:28:33 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:28:33 --> 00:28:36 Heidi Campo: And it's crazy that humans have that built in
00:28:36 --> 00:28:39 unsettledness with something that's almost human but
00:28:39 --> 00:28:39 not human.
00:28:40 --> 00:28:43 Professor Fred Watson: M. No. That's very telling
00:28:43 --> 00:28:46 about something deep in our, you know, in our
00:28:46 --> 00:28:49 psyche that probably goes
00:28:49 --> 00:28:51 back to ancient times in our
00:28:51 --> 00:28:53 evolutionary makeup.
00:28:53 --> 00:28:56 Heidi Campo: There's lots and lots of theories. Let us know what you guys think,
00:28:56 --> 00:28:58 if you guys have any, um, thoughts or
00:28:58 --> 00:29:01 theories on the uncanny valley and how
00:29:01 --> 00:29:04 that relates to our pattern recognition of the
00:29:04 --> 00:29:07 man on the moon or the face on Mars or
00:29:07 --> 00:29:10 having. How I saw these images of these,
00:29:10 --> 00:29:13 uh, rocks on Mars and I thought of trees right
00:29:13 --> 00:29:13 away.
00:29:16 --> 00:29:18 Professor Fred Watson: Obviously. Some others thought about cities as well.
00:29:19 --> 00:29:21 Heidi Campo: Yeah. What did you see when you looked at this, Fred?
00:29:22 --> 00:29:25 Professor Fred Watson: Um, I saw pretty well what I was being told to look for.
00:29:27 --> 00:29:29 Ridges. Oh, it's ridges. Yeah.
00:29:29 --> 00:29:31 Heidi Campo: Good analytical mind.
00:29:31 --> 00:29:34 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Well, that's not. Perhaps it's not a good
00:29:34 --> 00:29:37 analytical mind. I just take it for granted.
00:29:37 --> 00:29:40 Yeah, it's a good point. I did, actually. There's quite a nice, um,
00:29:40 --> 00:29:43 on one of the websites, uh, and
00:29:43 --> 00:29:46 I'm sure it's well available. Uh, There's a nice
00:29:46 --> 00:29:49 360 degree panorama from Curiosity
00:29:49 --> 00:29:52 that you can scan around and you can actually see these
00:29:52 --> 00:29:54 ridges from Curiosity's viewpoint.
00:29:55 --> 00:29:58 So it's worth a look. I think that's, um, come
00:29:58 --> 00:30:01 from jpl, which of course is the organization
00:30:01 --> 00:30:04 that is operating the spacecraft.
00:30:04 --> 00:30:07 Heidi Campo: That's fantastic. Fred. This has been so much
00:30:07 --> 00:30:10 fun today. Thank you for joining me and bringing some
00:30:10 --> 00:30:12 sunshine to our rainy day,
00:30:13 --> 00:30:15 um, keeping us all curious.
00:30:15 --> 00:30:18 Professor Fred Watson: It's always a pleasure, Heidi. And, um, yeah, we've got rain
00:30:18 --> 00:30:21 coming here too, so I might need a bit of your sunshine
00:30:21 --> 00:30:23 when the. When the sky's clear in Houston.
00:30:24 --> 00:30:26 Heidi Campo: All right, well, hopefully the rest of you are all staying warm and
00:30:26 --> 00:30:29 dry. And, uh, we thank you so much for joining us.
00:30:29 --> 00:30:32 And this has been another fun, exciting, enlightening
00:30:32 --> 00:30:34 episode of Space Nuts.
00:30:34 --> 00:30:36 Voice Over Guy: Space Nuts. You've been listening to the
00:30:36 --> 00:30:38 SpaceNuts podcast,
00:30:39 --> 00:30:42 available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
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