Key topics
In this episode, Fred Watson explains an update from Peter Verweyen on MOND, now referred to as Aether Scalar Tensor Theory, and how it relates to dark matter and dark energy debates.
We discuss the detection of erythrulose, a sugar molecule found in interstellar gas clouds near the center of the Milky Way, and why this matters for prebiotic chemistry.
Fred describes how molecules like sugar can form in cold molecular clouds before stars and planets exist, making some ingredients for life surprisingly common.
We discuss a new study warning that rocket exhaust from future lunar landings could contaminate ice in permanently shadowed craters at the Moon’s south pole.
The Moon’s polar ice may contain ancient prebiotic molecules delivered by comets, asteroids, and dust, making it a possible time capsule for the chemistry that led to life.
We discuss the practical and ethical problem that landers have to use rocket engines, and those exhaust plumes may spread methane and other organics across the lunar surface very quickly.
Fred shares how satellite-based direct-to-cell or direct-to-mobile systems could help locate lost dogs in remote places without cell coverage.
We discuss how this kind of tracking builds on existing GPS pet trackers, and how it could be useful in wilderness areas, while also noting the limits and concerns in national parks.
Timestamps
(00:00) Start of the episode and what’s coming up
(03:12) MOND update and the new AEST name
(07:10) A sugary molecule in the center of our galaxy
(09:51) Why sugar can form in deep space before stars exist
(12:24) Why lunar landings could contaminate the Moon’s ice
(14:54) The Moon as a time capsule for prebiotic molecules
(16:24) Methane exhaust and rapid contamination risk
(18:37) Should the Moon be protected like a national park?
(20:28) Satellite tracking for lost dogs in remote areas
(24:52) Direct-to-mobile satellite technology explained
(25:44) The Judas goat program and invasive species control
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00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Andrew Dunkley: Hi there. Thanks again for joining us. This
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 is Space Nuts, where we talk astronomy, space
00:00:05 --> 00:00:08 science and anything else that tends to pop
00:00:08 --> 00:00:09 up. We've talked about trains, we've talked
00:00:09 --> 00:00:12 about movies, we've talked about dogs and
00:00:12 --> 00:00:14 cats and we might be talking about dogs
00:00:14 --> 00:00:16 today. In fact, we are, strangely enough,
00:00:16 --> 00:00:19 nothing to do with the Dog Star either. We're
00:00:19 --> 00:00:21 also, uh, going to talk about something quite
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 sweet. We did Salty recently with the Pink
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 Planet, but now we've found out, um,
00:00:27 --> 00:00:30 there's a sugary centre in our, uh, galaxy.
00:00:30 --> 00:00:33 And what might happen when we land on the
00:00:33 --> 00:00:35 moon again. Uh, it's not good news, as it
00:00:35 --> 00:00:37 turns out. We'll talk about all of that on
00:00:37 --> 00:00:39 this episode of space nuts.
00:00:40 --> 00:00:42 Professor Fred Watson: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.
00:00:42 --> 00:00:45 10, 9. Ignition
00:00:45 --> 00:00:46 sequence start.
00:00:46 --> 00:00:47 Professor Fred Watson: Space nuts.
00:00:47 --> 00:00:50 Professor Fred Watson: 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. 2, 3, 4,
00:00:50 --> 00:00:52 5, 5, 4, 3, 2', 1.
00:00:52 --> 00:00:53 Professor Fred Watson: Space nuts.
00:00:53 --> 00:00:55 Professor Fred Watson: Astronauts report it feels good.
00:00:56 --> 00:00:58 Andrew Dunkley: He's back again for more. I don't know how he
00:00:58 --> 00:01:01 keeps it up because, um, I don't know. I
00:01:01 --> 00:01:03 worked in radio for 40 years and lost my
00:01:03 --> 00:01:05 voice many times. So Fred Watson never loses
00:01:05 --> 00:01:06 his. It's Professor Fred Watson Watson,
00:01:06 --> 00:01:08 Astronomer at Large. Hello, Fred Watson.
00:01:08 --> 00:01:11 Professor Fred Watson: Hello, Andrew. Um, you probably jinxed us
00:01:11 --> 00:01:13 now. I probably have coughing in the
00:01:13 --> 00:01:14 bathroom.
00:01:14 --> 00:01:16 Andrew Dunkley: One famous case I must tell you about. I
00:01:16 --> 00:01:18 worked for a rock station in Newcastle many
00:01:18 --> 00:01:19 years ago and I was doing a Saturday
00:01:19 --> 00:01:20 afternoon shift.
00:01:21 --> 00:01:21 Professor Fred Watson: Yes.
00:01:21 --> 00:01:23 Andrew Dunkley: And I must have had a virus of some kind
00:01:23 --> 00:01:26 that, that was sort of living underneath the
00:01:26 --> 00:01:29 radar. And during the progression
00:01:29 --> 00:01:32 of my four hour shift. Was it four or six?
00:01:32 --> 00:01:34 Might have been six. My voice just
00:01:34 --> 00:01:36 deteriorated and deteriorated to the point
00:01:36 --> 00:01:39 where I actually couldn't talk, couldn't make
00:01:39 --> 00:01:42 a sound. And the programme director
00:01:42 --> 00:01:43 rang and said, what's going on?
00:01:43 --> 00:01:44 Professor Fred Watson: I said.
00:01:47 --> 00:01:50 Andrew Dunkley: So he had to come in and take over from me.
00:01:50 --> 00:01:51 Was not happy. I mean, I can't.
00:01:51 --> 00:01:54 Professor Fred Watson: You can't help it. No, you can't. That's
00:01:54 --> 00:01:55 right, you can't help it.
00:01:55 --> 00:01:57 Andrew Dunkley: But, uh, yeah, that's one of my famous
00:01:57 --> 00:02:00 moments in radio. Or is it infamous? I don't
00:02:00 --> 00:02:00 know.
00:02:00 --> 00:02:01 Professor Fred Watson: Infamous. That's right, yeah.
00:02:01 --> 00:02:03 Andrew Dunkley: Amongst many. I should write a book.
00:02:04 --> 00:02:06 Professor Fred Watson: Well, that's what you need to do. Yes, you
00:02:06 --> 00:02:07 should, you should write a book.
00:02:07 --> 00:02:09 Andrew Dunkley: Because behind the scenes in radio, um, most
00:02:09 --> 00:02:11 people never know any of the stuff that
00:02:11 --> 00:02:14 happens. And some weird stuff happens. Yes,
00:02:14 --> 00:02:15 some very weird stuff.
00:02:15 --> 00:02:16 Professor Fred Watson: Yep, yep.
00:02:16 --> 00:02:18 Andrew Dunkley: Now, Fred Watson, uh. Oh, how are you, by the
00:02:18 --> 00:02:18 way?
00:02:18 --> 00:02:20 Professor Fred Watson: Oh, I'm fine, thank you. Uh, all good. Still
00:02:20 --> 00:02:23 supporting my, um, collision with the screen
00:02:23 --> 00:02:24 door the other night.
00:02:24 --> 00:02:25 Andrew Dunkley: But it's looking a little better.
00:02:25 --> 00:02:26 Professor Fred Watson: It's Getting better.
00:02:27 --> 00:02:30 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, the orbital rotation is starting to,
00:02:30 --> 00:02:33 you know, look less radical.
00:02:33 --> 00:02:35 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, no, it's good. Uh, I wear it with
00:02:35 --> 00:02:36 pride.
00:02:36 --> 00:02:39 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, you do. Um, at your age, though, it
00:02:39 --> 00:02:40 might take 10 years to fade.
00:02:41 --> 00:02:42 Now, um,
00:02:44 --> 00:02:46 before we get started, uh, we've received,
00:02:46 --> 00:02:49 um, a message from, um, uh, one of your,
00:02:50 --> 00:02:51 um, friends and colleagues.
00:02:52 --> 00:02:55 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, from Peter Verwein, who's our link
00:02:55 --> 00:02:57 with the world of Mondo Modified Newtonian
00:02:57 --> 00:03:00 Dynamics. I actually saw him, uh,
00:03:01 --> 00:03:03 last week at the, uh, Astronomical Society of
00:03:03 --> 00:03:06 Australia's annual science meeting and
00:03:06 --> 00:03:08 he said he'd dropped me a line with an update
00:03:08 --> 00:03:10 and I, uh, asked him if he'd mind if I read
00:03:10 --> 00:03:12 the update out on Space Notes. And he said
00:03:12 --> 00:03:14 no, he wouldn't. Uh, but he did preface it
00:03:14 --> 00:03:17 by, um, having, uh,
00:03:17 --> 00:03:20 mentioning that they'd heard from the
00:03:20 --> 00:03:22 originator of mond, Modified Newtonian
00:03:22 --> 00:03:25 Dynamics, Mordechai Milgrom, who,
00:03:25 --> 00:03:27 um, seems to be calling it something else
00:03:27 --> 00:03:30 now, uh, which was Ether
00:03:30 --> 00:03:31 Scalar tensor theory.
00:03:31 --> 00:03:32 Andrew Dunkley: Oh my goodness.
00:03:32 --> 00:03:35 Professor Fred Watson: Aest. Uh, yeah, uh,
00:03:35 --> 00:03:38 but, um, uh, he
00:03:38 --> 00:03:40 basically keeps going with his research.
00:03:40 --> 00:03:43 Although, um, Peter suspects he's
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45 suggesting that the theory needs a complete
00:03:45 --> 00:03:48 rethink, which apparently Peter's been doing
00:03:48 --> 00:03:50 as well. Let me read what he says though,
00:03:50 --> 00:03:52 because I think it's quite interesting for
00:03:52 --> 00:03:54 anybody who's been following this argument.
00:03:54 --> 00:03:56 Mond, of course, is an alternative theory,
00:03:56 --> 00:03:59 uh, of, um, basically
00:03:59 --> 00:04:01 gravity. Except it's not gravity, it's
00:04:01 --> 00:04:04 acceleration, uh, which postulates
00:04:04 --> 00:04:06 that at very low accelerations, uh,
00:04:06 --> 00:04:09 Newton's laws don't hold. The accelerations
00:04:09 --> 00:04:12 behave in a different way. Uh, and by
00:04:12 --> 00:04:14 very low, I mean the kind of accelerations
00:04:14 --> 00:04:17 that you get outside. Um,
00:04:17 --> 00:04:20 sorry, in terms of the movement of
00:04:20 --> 00:04:23 objects around a galaxy, uh, things in the
00:04:23 --> 00:04:26 solar system are accelerating too rapidly for
00:04:26 --> 00:04:28 this to show up. That was the original
00:04:28 --> 00:04:30 premise. And it's of course, uh, an
00:04:30 --> 00:04:33 explanation for why galaxies don't fly apart
00:04:34 --> 00:04:36 as we think they should, because they're
00:04:36 --> 00:04:38 rotating too fast for what we can see to hold
00:04:38 --> 00:04:41 them together. And of course that's why we
00:04:41 --> 00:04:43 postulate dark matter, the stuff that we
00:04:43 --> 00:04:45 think is invisible but does hold them
00:04:45 --> 00:04:47 together. So, reading from Peter's
00:04:47 --> 00:04:50 email, uh, he says in a very vague sense
00:04:50 --> 00:04:53 the universe might be like an onion, a bit
00:04:53 --> 00:04:55 like Shrek, if you know the movie reference.
00:04:56 --> 00:04:58 Imagine a bubble universe expanding from
00:04:58 --> 00:05:01 within its progenitor universe. In this case,
00:05:01 --> 00:05:04 the word universe can still be because like
00:05:04 --> 00:05:06 an onion over time as bubble universes
00:05:06 --> 00:05:09 explode into existence. Yes, like a Big Bang.
00:05:09 --> 00:05:11 Within the universe we get layers.
00:05:11 --> 00:05:13 Penrose's book, Cycles of Time
00:05:14 --> 00:05:16 explains the concept of a cyclic universe
00:05:16 --> 00:05:19 quite well, but he does some mathematical
00:05:19 --> 00:05:21 magic with how he handles scaling.
00:05:22 --> 00:05:25 Our idea is similar but offers an alternative
00:05:25 --> 00:05:27 explanation as to why these bubbles explode
00:05:27 --> 00:05:30 in the first place. And uh, as our
00:05:30 --> 00:05:33 idea develops, not a theory yet, we are
00:05:33 --> 00:05:35 noting similarities to other theories and
00:05:35 --> 00:05:38 models like K essence, which,
00:05:38 --> 00:05:40 um, I haven't heard of. And I bet you haven't
00:05:40 --> 00:05:43 either, Andrew. No, um, there's much to do to
00:05:43 --> 00:05:45 fully develop this into a theory that
00:05:45 --> 00:05:47 explains dark energy and dark matter. But one
00:05:47 --> 00:05:49 thing to note, looking for evidence of
00:05:49 --> 00:05:52 modified gravity around a black hole should
00:05:52 --> 00:05:54 be like looking for a needle in a needle
00:05:54 --> 00:05:57 stack. That's why the paper reporting
00:05:57 --> 00:06:00 mass discrepancies around supermassive black
00:06:00 --> 00:06:03 holes might put a dampener on quite a few
00:06:03 --> 00:06:05 modified gravity ideas. And
00:06:05 --> 00:06:08 we actually covered that, that uh, it was uh,
00:06:08 --> 00:06:11 the evidence that there's stuff outside a
00:06:11 --> 00:06:12 black hole that is not normal matter.
00:06:14 --> 00:06:16 So thank you very much, Peter. Thanks for the
00:06:16 --> 00:06:19 update. And um, we'll continue
00:06:19 --> 00:06:21 to watch with interest what happens in the
00:06:21 --> 00:06:21 world of mond.
00:06:22 --> 00:06:22 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, indeed.
00:06:23 --> 00:06:24 Professor Fred Watson: Oh, sorry, aast.
00:06:25 --> 00:06:27 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, as it's now called. Uh,
00:06:28 --> 00:06:30 yes, and lovely to hear from Peter as well.
00:06:30 --> 00:06:33 It's great that we get these little pieces of
00:06:33 --> 00:06:36 input from everyone
00:06:36 --> 00:06:37 and anyone
00:06:37 --> 00:06:38 Professor Fred Watson: friends around the world.
00:06:38 --> 00:06:41 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, indeed. Let's get into our topics
00:06:41 --> 00:06:42 for today, Fred Watson.
00:06:43 --> 00:06:45 And our first one sort um of follows on
00:06:45 --> 00:06:47 from um, its uh,
00:06:48 --> 00:06:51 opposing, um, platform which was
00:06:51 --> 00:06:54 our salty pink planet, which we spoke about,
00:06:54 --> 00:06:56 um, uh, a few episodes back.
00:06:57 --> 00:06:59 This uh, is at the opposite end of the
00:06:59 --> 00:07:02 scale. We're going from salty to very sweet,
00:07:03 --> 00:07:05 uh, because it looks like our galaxy has a
00:07:05 --> 00:07:08 sugary centre. Now what's interesting to
00:07:08 --> 00:07:11 me, Fred Watson, is that sugar in the
00:07:11 --> 00:07:13 universe is not uncommon.
00:07:13 --> 00:07:16 Professor Fred Watson: It's not. That's right. Uh, we've
00:07:16 --> 00:07:19 found it apparently, um, in
00:07:19 --> 00:07:20 um, asteroids actually.
00:07:21 --> 00:07:24 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, and wait for it. That's why
00:07:24 --> 00:07:26 the universe is expanding at an accelerating
00:07:26 --> 00:07:27 rate.
00:07:29 --> 00:07:31 Professor Fred Watson: Well, that could be one explanation. That's
00:07:31 --> 00:07:33 right. And it's certainly the waistline
00:07:33 --> 00:07:36 that's expanding. Uh, so yes,
00:07:37 --> 00:07:39 uh, it's a sugar. There are, there are. Sugar
00:07:39 --> 00:07:41 comes in different varieties. It's basically
00:07:41 --> 00:07:44 a chemical, um, defined by the
00:07:44 --> 00:07:47 number of carbon atoms there are in it
00:07:47 --> 00:07:50 and how it combines with other atoms. So
00:07:50 --> 00:07:52 this particular one is called
00:07:52 --> 00:07:55 erythrulose. I'm not sure whether I'm
00:07:55 --> 00:07:56 pronouncing that correctly, but that's what
00:07:56 --> 00:07:59 it looks like. Um, and its chemical formula
00:07:59 --> 00:08:02 is C4H8O4. So
00:08:02 --> 00:08:04 four atoms each of carbon and oxygen and
00:08:04 --> 00:08:07 eight of hydrogen. Um, so,
00:08:08 --> 00:08:10 uh, it Comes under a classification known as
00:08:10 --> 00:08:13 ketos. I've heard of those. As you know, I'm
00:08:13 --> 00:08:13 not a chemist.
00:08:13 --> 00:08:16 Andrew Dunkley: So isn't there a keto diet or am I getting
00:08:16 --> 00:08:17 that mixed up with something?
00:08:17 --> 00:08:20 Professor Fred Watson: It could be, yeah, yeah, could be all sorts
00:08:20 --> 00:08:22 of things. All sorts of diets these days.
00:08:22 --> 00:08:24 Yes. But it, but it's this time.
00:08:24 --> 00:08:27 These molecules of sugar have been
00:08:27 --> 00:08:30 detected in interstellar space rather
00:08:30 --> 00:08:33 than, you know, in, um, uh,
00:08:33 --> 00:08:35 meteorites or asteroid samples or whatever.
00:08:36 --> 00:08:39 Uh, and those gas clouds where
00:08:39 --> 00:08:42 they've been detected are actually near the
00:08:42 --> 00:08:45 centre of our galaxy. So it seems
00:08:45 --> 00:08:47 that it is probably something quite
00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 ubiquitous in the galaxy. Uh,
00:08:50 --> 00:08:53 um. It's a particular class of sugar and
00:08:53 --> 00:08:56 I'm sure you've noted that it is actually the
00:08:56 --> 00:08:58 same sugar that you find in raspberries.
00:08:58 --> 00:08:58 Andrew Dunkley: Yes.
00:08:59 --> 00:09:01 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, which, um. Yeah, it's just.
00:09:01 --> 00:09:03 It's bizarre, isn't it? I don't know why
00:09:03 --> 00:09:05 we're surprised, because. No, that's right.
00:09:05 --> 00:09:07 Andrew Dunkley: We are made up of the stuff of the universe,
00:09:07 --> 00:09:09 so it stands to reason.
00:09:10 --> 00:09:13 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, that's correct. Uh, and, uh, yes, it
00:09:13 --> 00:09:15 does. And, um. So basically,
00:09:16 --> 00:09:18 you know, uh, sugar is one of the.
00:09:19 --> 00:09:22 What you might call a prebiotic here. I'm
00:09:22 --> 00:09:23 losing my voice after our conversation
00:09:23 --> 00:09:25 before, what we might call a
00:09:26 --> 00:09:28 prebiotic molecule, um, one
00:09:28 --> 00:09:31 that, uh, is what we do, loosely termed
00:09:31 --> 00:09:33 part of the building blocks of life. But
00:09:33 --> 00:09:35 they, you know, these key ingredients of life
00:09:36 --> 00:09:39 basically conform deep in the
00:09:39 --> 00:09:42 universe, uh, in these, what are called
00:09:42 --> 00:09:45 molecular clouds, uh, giant molecular
00:09:45 --> 00:09:47 clouds, molecular nebulae, uh, and
00:09:47 --> 00:09:50 you can get them before stars and planets
00:09:50 --> 00:09:52 form. That's the bottom line. So you don't
00:09:52 --> 00:09:55 need the planet formation process or the star
00:09:55 --> 00:09:58 formation process to synthesise sugar. It
00:09:58 --> 00:10:00 can happen in the cold of, uh, space.
00:10:00 --> 00:10:01 Andrew Dunkley: That's amazing.
00:10:01 --> 00:10:03 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right. It's quite extraordinary.
00:10:04 --> 00:10:06 Um, uh, it's
00:10:06 --> 00:10:08 basically some research that's come from
00:10:08 --> 00:10:10 Spanish astronomers, using Spanish
00:10:10 --> 00:10:13 telescopes, I think, radio telescopes. Uh,
00:10:13 --> 00:10:16 so a very interesting piece of research and
00:10:16 --> 00:10:19 there's a sort of corollary which, uh,
00:10:19 --> 00:10:22 suggests that perhaps in the
00:10:22 --> 00:10:25 early universe, perhaps before the solar
00:10:25 --> 00:10:27 system formed, um, the
00:10:27 --> 00:10:30 residual gas cloud in
00:10:30 --> 00:10:32 which the solar system, um,
00:10:33 --> 00:10:36 formed had sugar in it, which
00:10:36 --> 00:10:39 suggests perhaps the young
00:10:39 --> 00:10:40 Earth and the young solar system was
00:10:40 --> 00:10:43 bombarded by these sugar molecules,
00:10:43 --> 00:10:46 uh, as the formation took place. We don't
00:10:46 --> 00:10:48 know that, but that's a suggestion that's
00:10:48 --> 00:10:51 been made. So, yeah, um, and there's a lot
00:10:51 --> 00:10:54 of it, uh, this stuff. So it's, uh, sitting
00:10:54 --> 00:10:56 there in the galactic centre, sweetening it
00:10:56 --> 00:10:56 very nicely.
00:10:57 --> 00:11:00 Andrew Dunkley: Amazing. And, uh, interesting. And I suppose
00:11:00 --> 00:11:02 it just adds one more flavour. Boom boom. To
00:11:03 --> 00:11:05 all of those things that are out there that
00:11:05 --> 00:11:07 we're learning are uh, very, very common now
00:11:07 --> 00:11:10 like water, uh, salt and
00:11:10 --> 00:11:12 iron and all this other
00:11:12 --> 00:11:15 stuff. It's all just part of
00:11:15 --> 00:11:18 the conglomeration we call the universe.
00:11:18 --> 00:11:21 And yeah, shouldn't be surprising that we've
00:11:21 --> 00:11:24 found sugar which um, will
00:11:24 --> 00:11:26 make a lot of people happy. There's a lot of
00:11:26 --> 00:11:27 sugar addicts out there.
00:11:27 --> 00:11:29 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, there's one sitting here.
00:11:29 --> 00:11:30 Andrew Dunkley: I'm one of them as well.
00:11:30 --> 00:11:31 Professor Fred Watson: Yes.
00:11:31 --> 00:11:34 Andrew Dunkley: M. My wife is more of the salty variety.
00:11:34 --> 00:11:35 Professor Fred Watson: That's right, yes.
00:11:36 --> 00:11:38 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, if you'd like to read all about it,
00:11:38 --> 00:11:40 there's a great article on the
00:11:40 --> 00:11:42 abc.net.au
00:11:42 --> 00:11:45 website about it. And uh, I'm guessing there
00:11:45 --> 00:11:47 was a paper published Fred Watson, which I
00:11:47 --> 00:11:49 have not been able to find while we've been
00:11:49 --> 00:11:49 talking.
00:11:49 --> 00:11:51 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, it's in nature astronomy.
00:11:51 --> 00:11:54 Andrew Dunkley: Of course it is. Yes. There you go. This is
00:11:54 --> 00:11:57 Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley and Professor
00:11:57 --> 00:11:58 Fred Watson Watson.
00:12:00 --> 00:12:02 Professor Fred Watson: I'm going to step off the land now.
00:12:04 --> 00:12:06 That's one small step for man,
00:12:09 --> 00:12:12 one biofuel for mankind.
00:12:12 --> 00:12:13 Professor Fred Watson: Space Nuts.
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16 Andrew Dunkley: Okay Fred Watson, let's uh, go back to the
00:12:16 --> 00:12:19 moon. It's uh, certainly getting a lot of
00:12:19 --> 00:12:20 attention at the moment with the Artemis
00:12:20 --> 00:12:23 missions and the, the Chines
00:12:23 --> 00:12:26 presence on the Moon at the moment. Uh, but
00:12:26 --> 00:12:28 there's a downside to all of this. We're
00:12:28 --> 00:12:31 putting people back on the Moon in the not
00:12:31 --> 00:12:33 too distant future. But uh,
00:12:34 --> 00:12:36 there's concern that this could mess a few
00:12:36 --> 00:12:38 things up. Particularly um, the way
00:12:39 --> 00:12:42 we might destroy evidence of the
00:12:42 --> 00:12:43 origins of life on Earth.
00:12:44 --> 00:12:47 Professor Fred Watson: Correct. Uh, and that's
00:12:47 --> 00:12:50 uh, all tied up with kind
00:12:50 --> 00:12:52 of the reason why um, we're going to the Moon
00:12:52 --> 00:12:55 in the first place. Uh, and that
00:12:55 --> 00:12:58 is uh, uh, certainly all the
00:12:58 --> 00:13:00 in terms of the Artemis mission.
00:13:01 --> 00:13:03 Uh, the
00:13:04 --> 00:13:07 cratered regions of the Moon's south pole. In
00:13:07 --> 00:13:09 particular the Moon's south polar region is
00:13:09 --> 00:13:11 very heavily cratered. It's mountainous and
00:13:11 --> 00:13:13 it's not a good place to land. But that's
00:13:13 --> 00:13:15 apparently where we're going to land. Uh, but
00:13:15 --> 00:13:17 uh, because of the fact that some of these
00:13:18 --> 00:13:21 deep craters ah are
00:13:21 --> 00:13:23 never illuminated by the sun, they're in
00:13:23 --> 00:13:25 perpetual shadow. Uh, we know,
00:13:25 --> 00:13:28 uh, at least we did deeply suspect or
00:13:29 --> 00:13:31 um, perhaps securely suspect that's the way
00:13:31 --> 00:13:34 to put it, uh, that um, they
00:13:34 --> 00:13:37 contain uh, ice and
00:13:37 --> 00:13:39 it's not just a guess. That comes from
00:13:39 --> 00:13:42 measurements that have been made particularly
00:13:42 --> 00:13:44 by orbiting spacecraft over the last um,
00:13:44 --> 00:13:47 decade or two. So we think there is
00:13:47 --> 00:13:50 ice and it's water ice frozen Water,
00:13:50 --> 00:13:53 uh, down there in these deep craters. Uh,
00:13:53 --> 00:13:56 and. But that ice could
00:13:56 --> 00:13:59 be a bit of a treasure trove
00:14:00 --> 00:14:02 of the stuff
00:14:02 --> 00:14:05 that would have been entrapped,
00:14:05 --> 00:14:08 uh, coming from space debris, dust,
00:14:08 --> 00:14:11 probably, uh, interstellar, interplanetary
00:14:11 --> 00:14:13 dust. Uh, there's probably stuff that hit
00:14:13 --> 00:14:16 from asteroids in the early history of the
00:14:16 --> 00:14:18 solar system and comets. Um,
00:14:19 --> 00:14:21 so we think there might be this trove of
00:14:21 --> 00:14:24 ancient molecules, again, a bit like what
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26 we've just been talking about, trapped in the
00:14:26 --> 00:14:29 ice near the southern polar regions or in
00:14:29 --> 00:14:32 the southern polar regions of the Moon.
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35 Um, and they're something that we'd really
00:14:35 --> 00:14:37 like to know about, um, because
00:14:39 --> 00:14:41 if we could, um, see some of these
00:14:41 --> 00:14:44 molecules, um, which no longer exist
00:14:44 --> 00:14:46 on the Earth because the Earth is a very
00:14:46 --> 00:14:49 dynamic geology and atmospheric
00:14:49 --> 00:14:51 physics. Um, they've been recycled,
00:14:51 --> 00:14:53 they've turned into life, they've done all
00:14:53 --> 00:14:55 their thing. But if we could find these
00:14:55 --> 00:14:57 prebiotic molecules on the Moon,
00:14:58 --> 00:15:00 uh, uh, that might be a way of
00:15:01 --> 00:15:04 seeing how they eventually combined and
00:15:04 --> 00:15:07 life emerged. Uh, that would be a
00:15:07 --> 00:15:09 sensational discovery to work out
00:15:10 --> 00:15:13 what triggers life. How does it start? Uh, we
00:15:13 --> 00:15:16 know that the prerequisites of life,
00:15:16 --> 00:15:19 molecular prerequisites, are, uh, sort
00:15:19 --> 00:15:21 of everywhere. But, uh, we don't know what
00:15:21 --> 00:15:23 the chemistry was like that caused life to
00:15:23 --> 00:15:26 come into being. So because the moon is
00:15:27 --> 00:15:29 almost like a time capsule in this regard,
00:15:30 --> 00:15:33 uh, we would like to preserve this ice, uh,
00:15:33 --> 00:15:35 and keep it safe. Um,
00:15:36 --> 00:15:39 so, uh, where it is now is fine.
00:15:39 --> 00:15:42 But the landing
00:15:42 --> 00:15:45 process of bringing a spacecraft down to the
00:15:45 --> 00:15:48 moon has an issue in
00:15:48 --> 00:15:51 relation to this ice and it is done by,
00:15:51 --> 00:15:53 um. This has been flagged because of
00:15:53 --> 00:15:55 computer modelling that's been carried out,
00:15:56 --> 00:15:59 uh, in the study that we're reporting. Um,
00:15:59 --> 00:16:01 and that modelling suggests
00:16:03 --> 00:16:05 that, uh, the
00:16:05 --> 00:16:08 exhaust that comes from the
00:16:08 --> 00:16:11 rockets, the motors that will be used to
00:16:11 --> 00:16:13 touch down on the moon, and there isn't
00:16:13 --> 00:16:16 really another way of doing it. You can't do
00:16:16 --> 00:16:18 a re entry like the shuttle did because
00:16:18 --> 00:16:20 there's no atmosphere to re enter. But the
00:16:20 --> 00:16:22 exhaust is rich in methane and
00:16:23 --> 00:16:26 that, uh, methane, apparently
00:16:26 --> 00:16:28 the modelling shows that it could very
00:16:28 --> 00:16:30 quickly and, and
00:16:30 --> 00:16:33 permanently contaminate the ice
00:16:34 --> 00:16:36 and basically get rid of any
00:16:36 --> 00:16:39 molecule, evidence, uh, that
00:16:39 --> 00:16:41 we would have found in them otherwise.
00:16:42 --> 00:16:45 Uh, the modelling suggests
00:16:45 --> 00:16:48 that, um, what are called
00:16:48 --> 00:16:51 the organic components, which are part of the
00:16:51 --> 00:16:53 exhaust of these lunar landers, would spread
00:16:54 --> 00:16:57 across the moon's surface very, very rapidly.
00:16:57 --> 00:16:59 Um, uh, and they basically
00:17:00 --> 00:17:02 studied, uh, how that would happen, including
00:17:03 --> 00:17:05 the radiation from the sun, including the
00:17:05 --> 00:17:07 solar wind. But there is a
00:17:07 --> 00:17:10 suggestion that that atmosphere
00:17:10 --> 00:17:13 that methane, uh, could very
00:17:13 --> 00:17:16 rapidly, uh, cover the whole of the lunar
00:17:16 --> 00:17:19 surface. Uh, the suggestion
00:17:19 --> 00:17:21 is possibly, uh, reaching from the
00:17:21 --> 00:17:24 moon's south pole to the north pole, uh,
00:17:25 --> 00:17:28 in less than a month or a couple of months.
00:17:28 --> 00:17:31 What we call two lun. Two lunar days. Yes.
00:17:31 --> 00:17:32 Very, very quickly.
00:17:32 --> 00:17:33 Professor Fred Watson: Wow.
00:17:34 --> 00:17:36 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, that's a bit scary. Uh, I was going to
00:17:36 --> 00:17:38 suggest, you know, we've spent all that money
00:17:38 --> 00:17:40 and time going to Mars looking for life and,
00:17:40 --> 00:17:43 you know, it might be next door.
00:17:43 --> 00:17:46 Um, but maybe not. If this keeps up, there's
00:17:46 --> 00:17:48 probably nothing much that can be done about
00:17:48 --> 00:17:49 it. Fred Watson.
00:17:49 --> 00:17:51 Professor Fred Watson: That's right. How do you, you know, how do
00:17:51 --> 00:17:53 you, um, essentially
00:17:54 --> 00:17:56 solve this problem? You can't glide down.
00:17:57 --> 00:17:59 It's got to be using rockets, um,
00:18:00 --> 00:18:02 and, um, a space elevator.
00:18:03 --> 00:18:05 Well, yes, the space elevator. There you go.
00:18:05 --> 00:18:07 But you. Yes. I think you've got.
00:18:07 --> 00:18:08 Andrew Dunkley: Too costly.
00:18:09 --> 00:18:10 Professor Fred Watson: You've got to put your rockets on the moon to
00:18:10 --> 00:18:13 start with, to do that. Well, that's the
00:18:13 --> 00:18:14 point. You can't just dangle it down.
00:18:15 --> 00:18:16 Andrew Dunkley: It's a catch 22.
00:18:16 --> 00:18:19 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. There's a comment here from, uh,
00:18:19 --> 00:18:21 one of the scientists involved with this, who
00:18:21 --> 00:18:23 is, uh, actually a Portuguese.
00:18:24 --> 00:18:27 Uh, we have laws regulating contamination
00:18:27 --> 00:18:29 of Earth, uh, environments like Antarctica
00:18:29 --> 00:18:32 and national parks. Uh, I think the moon is
00:18:32 --> 00:18:34 an environment as valuable as those. So the
00:18:34 --> 00:18:36 suggestion is, you know, maybe there should
00:18:36 --> 00:18:39 be laws protecting the moon. But the. As
00:18:39 --> 00:18:42 you said, what's the answer to that? Well,
00:18:42 --> 00:18:44 don't go there. That's really
00:18:45 --> 00:18:46 a, uh, very, very interesting piece of
00:18:46 --> 00:18:48 research. I'm sure this is going to promote,
00:18:48 --> 00:18:51 uh, or prompt a lot of conversation
00:18:52 --> 00:18:54 and perhaps debate about the ethics of this.
00:18:54 --> 00:18:57 And, uh, it'll be checked, I'm sure, very,
00:18:57 --> 00:18:59 very much, uh, very carefully,
00:18:59 --> 00:19:01 because that's a really important result.
00:19:02 --> 00:19:05 Andrew Dunkley: Yes. Uh, and look, they could
00:19:05 --> 00:19:08 introduce, uh, an international law
00:19:08 --> 00:19:10 saying, okay, moon's off limits. It's a
00:19:10 --> 00:19:12 national park. Can't go there. Um,
00:19:13 --> 00:19:16 but people will. Anyway, it's the same as we
00:19:16 --> 00:19:19 were talking about, um, recently with
00:19:19 --> 00:19:21 nuclear weapons. We already think they're up
00:19:21 --> 00:19:23 in space even though they're not allowed.
00:19:23 --> 00:19:25 Professor Fred Watson: Yep, Yep, that's right.
00:19:25 --> 00:19:28 Andrew Dunkley: So, you know, here's another one. So
00:19:29 --> 00:19:30 that's not going to work either.
00:19:30 --> 00:19:31 Professor Fred Watson: I think you're right.
00:19:33 --> 00:19:35 Uh, knowing human nature, I think you're
00:19:35 --> 00:19:37 right. And the world we live in today as
00:19:37 --> 00:19:38 well.
00:19:38 --> 00:19:41 Andrew Dunkley: Well, you know, it's, it's. It's the old, um,
00:19:42 --> 00:19:44 sign on the fence that says do not enter.
00:19:44 --> 00:19:45 Professor Fred Watson: Yes.
00:19:45 --> 00:19:47 Andrew Dunkley: You know, someone's going to ignore that.
00:19:47 --> 00:19:48 Professor Fred Watson: Yes. Oh, I better go and have a look.
00:19:49 --> 00:19:49 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah.
00:19:49 --> 00:19:51 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, but my Frisbee.
00:19:51 --> 00:19:52 Andrew Dunkley: I've got to get my Frisbee.
00:19:52 --> 00:19:55 Professor Fred Watson: Yes. What am I doing? What am I doing? Just
00:19:55 --> 00:19:56 for a segue.
00:19:56 --> 00:19:59 Andrew Dunkley: There. That's what we'll talk about next. But
00:19:59 --> 00:20:01 if you'd like to follow up on that storey,
00:20:01 --> 00:20:03 it's on the space.com website or you can read
00:20:03 --> 00:20:05 the study which was published in the journal,
00:20:06 --> 00:20:09 uh, the American Geophysical Union. This is
00:20:09 --> 00:20:11 Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley and Professor
00:20:11 --> 00:20:12 Fred Watson Watson.
00:20:15 --> 00:20:16 Professor Fred Watson: Space Nuts.
00:20:17 --> 00:20:18 Andrew Dunkley: Now, Fred Watson, uh, we're going to the
00:20:18 --> 00:20:21 dogs, um, lost dogs specifically. Now
00:20:21 --> 00:20:24 that's not uncommon, especially after a
00:20:24 --> 00:20:26 thunderstorm or a tornado. Um,
00:20:28 --> 00:20:31 and you often see signs around town. You
00:20:31 --> 00:20:33 know, have you seen my dog? There's a pretty
00:20:33 --> 00:20:35 picture of the dog on the top of the A4
00:20:35 --> 00:20:36 banner.
00:20:36 --> 00:20:36 Professor Fred Watson: Yep.
00:20:37 --> 00:20:39 Andrew Dunkley: But, um, when you're in an area,
00:20:40 --> 00:20:42 um, beyond. And there's technology around
00:20:42 --> 00:20:45 these days where you can put gps, um,
00:20:45 --> 00:20:48 or you can put trackers that require
00:20:48 --> 00:20:50 cell phone coverage and things like that on
00:20:50 --> 00:20:53 your dogs. Um, but that's not
00:20:53 --> 00:20:56 always practical. Um, but
00:20:56 --> 00:20:58 now there's a new way, and this is really
00:20:58 --> 00:21:01 quite fascinating about, uh, using, uh,
00:21:01 --> 00:21:04 GPS systems, satellite systems
00:21:05 --> 00:21:06 to connect to your dog's collar.
00:21:07 --> 00:21:10 Professor Fred Watson: Yes. So you're right,
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13 that's the perfect intro because, um, these
00:21:13 --> 00:21:15 devices do exist. Of course. There's um, you
00:21:15 --> 00:21:18 know, many of us have got air tags that we
00:21:18 --> 00:21:21 use to keep tracks on, ah, our luggage
00:21:21 --> 00:21:23 and, and things of that sort. Um,
00:21:24 --> 00:21:27 and um, we can certainly
00:21:27 --> 00:21:30 find one of those if it's hanging around your
00:21:30 --> 00:21:33 dog's neck. Uh, actually our dog doesn't have
00:21:33 --> 00:21:35 one. Uh, but um, most of my other
00:21:35 --> 00:21:38 stuff does, uh, which doesn't walk away,
00:21:38 --> 00:21:41 it just gets left behind. Uh, but the
00:21:41 --> 00:21:44 issue arises that if you're away
00:21:44 --> 00:21:47 from a, ah, sort of standard suburban area
00:21:47 --> 00:21:49 and you really are exploring the wilderness,
00:21:50 --> 00:21:53 uh, you're nowhere near a cell tower. And
00:21:53 --> 00:21:55 that means that these devices simply don't
00:21:55 --> 00:21:58 work. You can't locate your possession or
00:21:58 --> 00:22:01 your dog. Uh, and so this
00:22:01 --> 00:22:04 storey is basically about
00:22:04 --> 00:22:06 how you can use,
00:22:07 --> 00:22:10 guess what, the Starlink technology, uh,
00:22:11 --> 00:22:13 um, to essentially find
00:22:13 --> 00:22:16 your dog even when it's not in
00:22:16 --> 00:22:18 a, uh, a place covered by a
00:22:19 --> 00:22:22 cellular network. So,
00:22:22 --> 00:22:25 uh, that's rather an interesting
00:22:25 --> 00:22:27 thing because it means that if you are in the
00:22:27 --> 00:22:30 middle of nowhere, uh, no phone
00:22:30 --> 00:22:33 coverage, uh, your dog gets lost, you
00:22:33 --> 00:22:34 can find it. But if you haven't got phone
00:22:34 --> 00:22:36 coverage, you're not going to know where it
00:22:36 --> 00:22:38 is. So you've got to have a satellite phone
00:22:38 --> 00:22:41 as well. Um, so if you've got that,
00:22:41 --> 00:22:44 um, then you can find your dog. Now, um,
00:22:44 --> 00:22:47 I am assuming that this relates to places
00:22:47 --> 00:22:49 where it's not illegal to take your dog into
00:22:50 --> 00:22:53 wilderness areas, uh, as it is in
00:22:53 --> 00:22:56 much of Australia, because of the fact that
00:22:56 --> 00:22:58 we do have endangered species,
00:22:59 --> 00:23:01 uh, all through our country. And so dogs are
00:23:01 --> 00:23:03 the last thing that you want. Yeah, we have
00:23:03 --> 00:23:05 dog fences, in fact, don't we?
00:23:05 --> 00:23:07 Andrew Dunkley: We do. We do have dog fences and rabbit
00:23:07 --> 00:23:09 fences and all sorts of things to stop the
00:23:09 --> 00:23:10 nasties getting through.
00:23:10 --> 00:23:11 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:23:11 --> 00:23:13 Andrew Dunkley: Um, Jordie would not need this kind of
00:23:13 --> 00:23:16 technology because when he barks in sy.
00:23:16 --> 00:23:18 Sydney, I can hear him 300 miles away.
00:23:19 --> 00:23:22 Professor Fred Watson: He just does one of his howls and everybody
00:23:22 --> 00:23:22 knows.
00:23:22 --> 00:23:24 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, the whole district knows. Yeah.
00:23:24 --> 00:23:25 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:23:25 --> 00:23:28 Andrew Dunkley: Um, that. That's not an uncommon
00:23:28 --> 00:23:30 issue in, um, residential areas.
00:23:31 --> 00:23:34 Uh, the dog barking problems. Um,
00:23:35 --> 00:23:38 so this is a fairly new thing from what I've
00:23:38 --> 00:23:41 read, because, uh, it sort of came on
00:23:41 --> 00:23:43 the back of the Starlink technology.
00:23:44 --> 00:23:46 Um, but it's also a
00:23:46 --> 00:23:49 fairly simple thing, I suppose. Uh, if
00:23:49 --> 00:23:51 you are out in the wilderness and there's no
00:23:51 --> 00:23:54 mobile coverage and your dog chases a bear or
00:23:54 --> 00:23:57 whatever, this could
00:23:57 --> 00:23:58 save its life.
00:23:59 --> 00:24:02 Professor Fred Watson: Um, that's correct, yes. Uh,
00:24:02 --> 00:24:04 I guess that's the good side of the storey.
00:24:05 --> 00:24:08 So, um, there have
00:24:08 --> 00:24:11 been animal
00:24:11 --> 00:24:14 trackers for a while. Apparently, uh, 11
00:24:14 --> 00:24:16 million dogs tracked or monitored by
00:24:16 --> 00:24:19 GPS in some form. Is that true, uh,
00:24:20 --> 00:24:21 throughout the world? Yeah. That doesn't
00:24:21 --> 00:24:23 surprise me there. There's a lot of dogs in
00:24:23 --> 00:24:26 the world. But, um, this is a step,
00:24:26 --> 00:24:28 you know, a step further, this, uh, this new
00:24:28 --> 00:24:31 connectivity, uh, because it's a. It's
00:24:31 --> 00:24:33 a bit like, um,
00:24:34 --> 00:24:36 D2M, which is direct to mobile
00:24:37 --> 00:24:39 from using satellites. If you've got
00:24:39 --> 00:24:41 direct to mobile, then you've basically got a
00:24:41 --> 00:24:43 satellite phone and I think Starlink,
00:24:44 --> 00:24:47 um, um, bringing that out quite soon, if they
00:24:47 --> 00:24:50 haven't done already. So it's that sort of
00:24:50 --> 00:24:52 technology. It's the direct to mobile or
00:24:52 --> 00:24:55 direct to cell technology, uh, that,
00:24:55 --> 00:24:57 um. That you can now adapt to dogs,
00:24:57 --> 00:24:57 apparently.
00:24:58 --> 00:25:00 Andrew Dunkley: Well, now that's a good thing because dogs do
00:25:00 --> 00:25:03 run away. They get excited and they wander
00:25:03 --> 00:25:05 off and. Or they. Or they meet another dog
00:25:05 --> 00:25:08 and next thing you know they're in Siberia.
00:25:09 --> 00:25:12 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, it's happened. It
00:25:12 --> 00:25:13 has, yeah.
00:25:13 --> 00:25:15 Andrew Dunkley: This reminds me of something that was done
00:25:15 --> 00:25:18 many, many years ago, uh, up around
00:25:18 --> 00:25:21 the, uh, Warren Bungles. Uh, we used to live,
00:25:21 --> 00:25:23 uh, in Cootabarabra and
00:25:24 --> 00:25:26 it was, uh, uh,
00:25:26 --> 00:25:29 the Judas Goat programme. You remember that?
00:25:30 --> 00:25:31 Judas, uh, goats.
00:25:31 --> 00:25:33 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, I do. I do remember that.
00:25:33 --> 00:25:36 Andrew Dunkley: Goats are an invasive species and they cause
00:25:36 --> 00:25:38 a lot of damage. In national parks in
00:25:38 --> 00:25:40 Australia. So what the National Park Service
00:25:40 --> 00:25:43 did was they would put, uh,
00:25:43 --> 00:25:46 a tracking collar. Collar, a GPS collar
00:25:46 --> 00:25:49 on a goat and they would release the
00:25:49 --> 00:25:51 goat into the national park,
00:25:51 --> 00:25:54 knowing that it would eventually find a herd
00:25:54 --> 00:25:55 of feral goats.
00:25:55 --> 00:25:56 Professor Fred Watson: Yep.
00:25:56 --> 00:25:57 Andrew Dunkley: And then they could go in and.
00:25:58 --> 00:25:58 Professor Fred Watson: Yep.
00:25:58 --> 00:26:00 Andrew Dunkley: Let's just say deal with them.
00:26:00 --> 00:26:02 Professor Fred Watson: They do deal with them. They use helicopters
00:26:02 --> 00:26:02 as well.
00:26:02 --> 00:26:05 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, they do. So the, the old Judas
00:26:05 --> 00:26:05 goat.
00:26:05 --> 00:26:06 Professor Fred Watson: Yes.
00:26:06 --> 00:26:09 Andrew Dunkley: Was, um, using, uh, this kind
00:26:09 --> 00:26:11 of technology, but, uh, now it's more freely
00:26:11 --> 00:26:13 available for, um, for. For domestic
00:26:13 --> 00:26:15 purposes, I suppose, Fred Watson.
00:26:15 --> 00:26:18 Professor Fred Watson: That's right. For, um. Yes, for
00:26:18 --> 00:26:21 other invasive species like dogs and cats.
00:26:22 --> 00:26:23 Andrew Dunkley: Absolutely. Yeah.
00:26:24 --> 00:26:25 Professor Fred Watson: Keep them, Keep them out of the national
00:26:25 --> 00:26:26 parks.
00:26:26 --> 00:26:28 Andrew Dunkley: Indeed. Uh, really interesting storey. That
00:26:28 --> 00:26:31 one is also on space.com but,
00:26:31 --> 00:26:34 um, there's every chance that, um, you
00:26:34 --> 00:26:36 know, if you're in the right part of the
00:26:36 --> 00:26:38 world, you might be using this technology
00:26:38 --> 00:26:41 already. Apparently 11 million dogs do.
00:26:42 --> 00:26:42 Professor Fred Watson: Ah.
00:26:42 --> 00:26:45 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, gosh, um, I think that brings us to the
00:26:45 --> 00:26:47 end, Fred Watson. That was quick.
00:26:47 --> 00:26:50 Professor Fred Watson: It was quick. Uh, and, um, that's
00:26:51 --> 00:26:52 kind, uh, of brought us up to date, I think,
00:26:52 --> 00:26:54 hasn't it, with life, the universe and
00:26:54 --> 00:26:54 everything.
00:26:55 --> 00:26:58 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, indeed, yes. Um, anyway, thank you
00:26:58 --> 00:26:59 very much. We will catch you on the next
00:26:59 --> 00:27:01 episode, uh, coming soon.
00:27:02 --> 00:27:04 Professor Fred Watson: Sounds good. I'll look forward to it. Andrew.
00:27:04 --> 00:27:05 All the best.
00:27:05 --> 00:27:07 Andrew Dunkley: Professor Fred Watson Watson, astronomer at
00:27:07 --> 00:27:09 large, part of the team here at Space Nuts,
00:27:09 --> 00:27:11 and thanks to Huw in the studio. Uh, Huw
00:27:11 --> 00:27:14 could. Couldn't be with us today. Tends to
00:27:14 --> 00:27:16 wander off and his wife's fitting, um, a
00:27:16 --> 00:27:19 GPS collar to him as we
00:27:19 --> 00:27:22 speak. Uh, and don't forget to visit our
00:27:22 --> 00:27:24 website, uh, between episodes, Spacenuts
00:27:24 --> 00:27:27 I.O. and From Me, Andrew Dunkley. Thanks for
00:27:27 --> 00:27:28 your company. We'll be back with a new
00:27:28 --> 00:27:30 episode real soon. See you then.
00:27:30 --> 00:27:31 Professor Fred Watson: Bye Bye.
00:27:32 --> 00:27:34 Andrew Dunkley: You've been listening to the Space Nuts
00:27:34 --> 00:27:37 podcast, available
00:27:37 --> 00:27:39 at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
00:27:40 --> 00:27:42 iHeartRadio or your favourite podcast
00:27:42 --> 00:27:44 player. You can also stream on
00:27:44 --> 00:27:46 demand@bytes.com M.
00:27:46 --> 00:27:48 Professor Fred Watson: This has been another quality podcast
00:27:48 --> 00:27:50 production from bytes.com.