This episode dives into some of the most intriguing space stories, from the mysterious Martian moon Phobos and its peculiar orbit to the bizarre, salt-colored exoplanet GJ 504b—possibly a pink dwarf. Plus, learn about a swift rescue mission to save the vital SWIFT space observatory.
In this episode:
The unique orbit and origin hypotheses of Phobos, including upcoming JAXA mission MMX
How Phobos's orbit might decay within millions of years and its potential internal structure
The discovery and characteristics of the pink, salty exoplanet GJ 504b
The debate over whether GJ 504b is a planet, brown dwarf, or star
The challenges faced by the aging SWIFT observatory and innovative plans for its rescue
Listener questions about universe expansion, gravitons, particles, and effects of space travel on humans
Timestamps:
00:00 - Overview of today's space stories and why they matter
00:40 - Insights on Phobos, Mars's close-in moon with unusual orbit
03:01 - How Phobos's orbit is unstable and upcoming JAXA's MMX mission
04:37 - Theories about Phobos's origin: collision vs. capture
07:05 - Surface features and internal structure of Phobos
09:24 - The future of Phobos and its potential collision with Mars
14:00 - Discovery of the pink, salty exoplanet GJ 504b
15:09 - Why GJ 504b is unique: direct imaging, color, and spectral analysis
16:07 - Is GJ 504b a planet, brown dwarf, or a star?
17:37 - The temperature of GJ 504b and implications for its classification
19:45 - How James Webb observations reveal salt clouds in GJ 504b's atmosphere
21:03 - Could GJ 504b be a pink dwarf? The classification debate
22:38 - Comparing planetary colors: Jupiter, Saturn, and the implications
23:05 - Fun cultural tidbits: Pink salt, salt coffee, and other salty things
24:44 - Urgency in the SWIFT space observatory rescue mission
26:08 - The history and importance of SWIFT since 2004
28:53 - The evolving orbit of SWIFT and innovative launch plans by Catalyst Space Technologies
31:42 - Challenges in orbital correction and the future of space observatories
34:34 - Final thoughts from Fred and the excitement of upcoming space missions
35:11 - Wrap-up and call for listener questions on space, particles, and the universe
Resources & Links:
Japanese Martian Moons Explorer (MMX)
GJ 504b Details and Discovery
James Webb Space Telescope
Catalyst Space Technologies
Royal Astronomical Society Monthly Notices
Connect with the Guests & Hosts:
Andrew Dunkley - Twitter
Professor Fred Watson - Twitter
Note: This episode combines deep space science, recent breakthroughs, and listener engagement, making complex topics approachable and fascinating. Stay tuned for upcoming missions, scientific debates, and space trivia that make our universe endlessly intriguing.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Andrew Dunkley: Hi there. Thanks for joining us yet again for
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 another episode of Space Nuts where we talk
00:00:05 --> 00:00:07 astronomy and space science. My name is
00:00:07 --> 00:00:09 Andrew Dunkley. Hope you're well. Thanks for
00:00:09 --> 00:00:11 your company. Today we're going to try and
00:00:11 --> 00:00:13 understand the Martian
00:00:14 --> 00:00:17 moon of Phobos. Um,
00:00:17 --> 00:00:20 was it born of a collision like our moon, or
00:00:20 --> 00:00:23 was it captured? And what's going on
00:00:23 --> 00:00:25 inside might be the only way to find out what
00:00:25 --> 00:00:28 it really is. Uh, we're also going to look at
00:00:28 --> 00:00:30 an exoplanet that my wife would adore. My
00:00:30 --> 00:00:33 wife loves salt. Like, you know, you give her
00:00:33 --> 00:00:35 a glass of ocean water and she says, can you
00:00:35 --> 00:00:37 put salt in that, please? Uh, this, this
00:00:37 --> 00:00:40 is, I'm not joking. This is
00:00:40 --> 00:00:42 an extraordinary planet and we'll tell you
00:00:42 --> 00:00:45 why. And uh, a very swift
00:00:45 --> 00:00:47 mission to save a vital space observatory.
00:00:48 --> 00:00:50 That'll make sense when we explain it all on
00:00:50 --> 00:00:52 this episode of, ah, space nuts.
00:00:52 --> 00:00:55 Andrew Dunkley: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.
00:00:55 --> 00:00:58 10, 9. Ignition
00:00:58 --> 00:00:59 sequence start.
00:00:59 --> 00:01:00 Professor Fred Watson: Space nuts.
00:01:00 --> 00:01:03 Andrew Dunkley: 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. 2,
00:01:03 --> 00:01:05 5, 5, 4, 3, 2,.
00:01:05 --> 00:01:06 Andrew Dunkley: Space nuts.
00:01:06 --> 00:01:08 Andrew Dunkley: Astronauts report it feels good.
00:01:09 --> 00:01:11 Andrew Dunkley: And with us once more is Professor
00:01:11 --> 00:01:12 Fred Watson Watson, astronomer at large.
00:01:12 --> 00:01:13 Hello Fred Watson.
00:01:13 --> 00:01:16 Professor Fred Watson: Hello, Andrew. Hello. Nice to see you again.
00:01:16 --> 00:01:17 Yes, you too.
00:01:19 --> 00:01:20 Andrew Dunkley: We could do the whole show just
00:01:20 --> 00:01:22 Professor Fred Watson: talking rubbish like that.
00:01:23 --> 00:01:24 Andrew Dunkley: Well, we do that anyway.
00:01:24 --> 00:01:27 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, yes, I've forgotten that.
00:01:28 --> 00:01:29 Andrew Dunkley: Indeed.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:32 Andrew Dunkley: We got some really interesting storeys.
00:01:32 --> 00:01:35 Um, I mean Mars always fascinate
00:01:35 --> 00:01:38 me but uh, the moon Phobos in particular.
00:01:39 --> 00:01:41 Uh, and we've got a salty atmosphere in an
00:01:41 --> 00:01:44 exoplanet which um, I uh, haven't told my
00:01:44 --> 00:01:45 wife about because she'd probably want to go
00:01:45 --> 00:01:48 there and uh, um, a
00:01:48 --> 00:01:50 mission that's got to get off the ground
00:01:50 --> 00:01:52 ultra quick to save an
00:01:52 --> 00:01:55 observatory in space. I really, really
00:01:55 --> 00:01:56 am looking forward to that storey.
00:01:57 --> 00:02:00 But, um, let's uh, turn our attention to
00:02:00 --> 00:02:03 the Martian moon of Phobos.
00:02:03 --> 00:02:06 Uh, I did a little bit of research and it
00:02:06 --> 00:02:09 is apparent the um,
00:02:09 --> 00:02:12 closest orbiting moon of
00:02:12 --> 00:02:15 any planet in our solar system to its parent
00:02:15 --> 00:02:15 planet.
00:02:16 --> 00:02:18 Professor Fred Watson: That's not a surprise.
00:02:19 --> 00:02:21 Andrew Dunkley: Six thousand kilometres from the surface.
00:02:21 --> 00:02:22 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, uh, in fact
00:02:24 --> 00:02:27 it's got this peculiar aspect
00:02:28 --> 00:02:31 uh, that uh, it
00:02:31 --> 00:02:33 orbits Mars. Of course, being a moon of
00:02:33 --> 00:02:36 Mars, it's the bigger of the two moons of
00:02:36 --> 00:02:38 Mars. It's only 23 kilometres across. So it's
00:02:38 --> 00:02:41 not really what you call a big moon. Uh, but
00:02:41 --> 00:02:43 it's got this extraordinary thing that it
00:02:43 --> 00:02:46 goes around Mars once in 7 hours and 39
00:02:46 --> 00:02:49 minutes. But Mars
00:02:49 --> 00:02:51 takes 24 hours and 40 minutes to rotate
00:02:51 --> 00:02:54 once on its axis. So this moon
00:02:54 --> 00:02:57 in Mars sky goes backwards.
00:02:57 --> 00:03:00 Um, its Own motion
00:03:00 --> 00:03:03 is enough to overcome the
00:03:03 --> 00:03:06 rotational motion of the
00:03:06 --> 00:03:09 planet. So, uh, yes, it goes
00:03:09 --> 00:03:12 more or less goes around twice a day. Uh, in
00:03:12 --> 00:03:15 fact, getting on for three times a day. Um,
00:03:16 --> 00:03:18 in fact, more than three times a day.
00:03:19 --> 00:03:21 My arithmetic's not very good at the moment.
00:03:22 --> 00:03:25 Um, so, yeah, uh, it's,
00:03:25 --> 00:03:28 uh, quite remarkable that you've got this
00:03:28 --> 00:03:30 phenomenon. So a, uh, very unusual
00:03:31 --> 00:03:34 moon. It's been known since, I think it was
00:03:34 --> 00:03:36 the 1880s. Um, uh, it
00:03:36 --> 00:03:39 was discovered, uh,
00:03:39 --> 00:03:42 actually by somebody who was related. There's
00:03:42 --> 00:03:45 a curious link. There's an uncle of
00:03:45 --> 00:03:48 Venetia Burney. Who you might remember was
00:03:48 --> 00:03:50 the young woman at the age of 11, I think,
00:03:50 --> 00:03:51 who gave Pluto its name.
00:03:52 --> 00:03:52 Andrew Dunkley: Oh, yeah.
00:03:52 --> 00:03:55 Professor Fred Watson: And she was in Oxford. And her uncle
00:03:55 --> 00:03:58 discovered, uh, the two moons of Mars. Very
00:03:58 --> 00:04:00 small objects, as I've said. Since that time,
00:04:01 --> 00:04:03 everybody's wondered how they got there. Uh,
00:04:04 --> 00:04:06 partly because they are small enough
00:04:07 --> 00:04:10 that it's
00:04:10 --> 00:04:12 possible they've got multiple different
00:04:12 --> 00:04:14 origins. Not simultaneously, but
00:04:15 --> 00:04:18 they've originated in, uh, a variety of ways.
00:04:18 --> 00:04:20 That's the possibility. Uh, so the two
00:04:20 --> 00:04:23 theories, um, one is. Well, more
00:04:23 --> 00:04:26 or less what you've alluded to already. One
00:04:26 --> 00:04:29 is that there was an event similar to the
00:04:29 --> 00:04:31 event that created our own moon. A collision
00:04:31 --> 00:04:34 in the early solar system by Mars
00:04:34 --> 00:04:37 with another, smaller object that sort of
00:04:37 --> 00:04:39 bashed into it, uh, lifted a whole lot of
00:04:39 --> 00:04:42 debris which coalesced to form the
00:04:42 --> 00:04:45 orbital. To form the object, uh,
00:04:45 --> 00:04:47 Phobos. And the other theory is that it's a
00:04:47 --> 00:04:49 captured asteroid. And I guess in the case of
00:04:49 --> 00:04:52 Mars, that's got some attractions to it.
00:04:52 --> 00:04:55 Because, uh, Mars, of
00:04:55 --> 00:04:57 course, is right on the inner edge of the
00:04:58 --> 00:05:00 main asteroid belt. So not very far from
00:05:00 --> 00:05:02 Mars. There are lots and lots of asteroids
00:05:02 --> 00:05:04 lurking. And we know from the way
00:05:04 --> 00:05:07 Jupiter's great gravitational pull Tinkers
00:05:07 --> 00:05:10 around with that asteroid belt, uh, that once
00:05:10 --> 00:05:13 in a while they stray from the main belt and
00:05:13 --> 00:05:15 you might get a capture. Um, it's
00:05:15 --> 00:05:18 also been known for a long time to have
00:05:19 --> 00:05:22 a peculiar composition. Its density
00:05:22 --> 00:05:24 is very low. And the suspicion is that it's
00:05:24 --> 00:05:27 made of something a bit like pumice. Um, you
00:05:28 --> 00:05:30 remember pumice being the
00:05:30 --> 00:05:33 material that, uh, is formed when
00:05:33 --> 00:05:36 volcanoes erupt underneath the ocean. You
00:05:36 --> 00:05:39 get this aerated stuff, almost like a
00:05:39 --> 00:05:42 foam. Um, and so its density
00:05:42 --> 00:05:44 is low enough that people don't really know
00:05:45 --> 00:05:48 whether that's what its interiors like.
00:05:48 --> 00:05:50 Uh, and of course, the other possibility,
00:05:50 --> 00:05:52 when you've got something with a low density
00:05:52 --> 00:05:55 like that, um, in common with many asteroids,
00:05:55 --> 00:05:58 is that it could be a rubber pile in
00:05:58 --> 00:06:00 other words something that's just made of
00:06:00 --> 00:06:03 loosely bound material all sort of stuck
00:06:03 --> 00:06:05 together by its own gravity, very feeble
00:06:05 --> 00:06:08 gravity because it's very small. Um, I have
00:06:08 --> 00:06:10 to say, um, Phobos doesn't look like that. It
00:06:10 --> 00:06:13 does look like a more solid object and it's
00:06:13 --> 00:06:16 got surface features including several quite
00:06:16 --> 00:06:18 big craters and one very big crater, uh,
00:06:18 --> 00:06:21 which is called Stickney. Um, I think
00:06:21 --> 00:06:24 it's about seven kilometres across and in an
00:06:24 --> 00:06:27 object that's only 22 and a half kilometres
00:06:27 --> 00:06:30 across. 22.2 actually. Um,
00:06:30 --> 00:06:33 that is a big crater.
00:06:33 --> 00:06:36 So all these factoids come together to make
00:06:36 --> 00:06:39 us wonder how it got there, what it's made
00:06:39 --> 00:06:42 of. Uh, and just one other comment about
00:06:42 --> 00:06:45 its orbit. Um, its orbit around
00:06:45 --> 00:06:48 Mars is not stable, uh, over a uh,
00:06:48 --> 00:06:50 long enough period of time and I think we're
00:06:50 --> 00:06:53 talking a few million years perhaps it
00:06:53 --> 00:06:55 will probably collide with Mars
00:06:56 --> 00:06:58 or just be pulled to pieces
00:06:58 --> 00:07:01 because it will get within the Roche limit of
00:07:01 --> 00:07:04 Mars. That's the, the limit within which a
00:07:04 --> 00:07:07 solid object can't exist or
00:07:07 --> 00:07:09 a solid object of any given size can't exist
00:07:09 --> 00:07:11 because of the gravitational disturbance.
00:07:11 --> 00:07:13 We've talked about Roche limits before I
00:07:13 --> 00:07:16 Andrew Dunkley: think and, and if it's, if it is pumice
00:07:16 --> 00:07:18 like. Yeah, there's every chance it will
00:07:18 --> 00:07:21 sort of crumble in the, in the sky.
00:07:21 --> 00:07:24 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right. Uh, not, you know,
00:07:24 --> 00:07:27 not a uh, not a
00:07:27 --> 00:07:29 solid object that would resist uh,
00:07:29 --> 00:07:32 gravity. Tidal forces is technically what
00:07:32 --> 00:07:34 they are. Tidal forces are when one end of an
00:07:34 --> 00:07:36 object feel a different gravitational pull
00:07:36 --> 00:07:39 from the other end. Uh, and so um, yes,
00:07:39 --> 00:07:41 tidal forces would perhaps deal
00:07:41 --> 00:07:44 the final blow. Um,
00:07:44 --> 00:07:47 but yes, so studies looking
00:07:47 --> 00:07:50 at what uh, Phobos is
00:07:50 --> 00:07:53 made of and I guess these are coming out and
00:07:53 --> 00:07:55 the interest is growing in
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58 advance of um, an upcoming space
00:07:58 --> 00:08:01 mission which is being launched by the
00:08:01 --> 00:08:03 Japanese uh, Aerospace
00:08:03 --> 00:08:06 Exploration Agency jaxa. Uh,
00:08:06 --> 00:08:09 it is called the Martian Moons
00:08:09 --> 00:08:12 Exploration. Uh, it's uh,
00:08:12 --> 00:08:14 otherwise known as MMX and it is a
00:08:14 --> 00:08:17 Phobos sample return mission. So
00:08:18 --> 00:08:21 clearly this mission is expecting to land
00:08:21 --> 00:08:23 on the surface of Phobos. Uh, it will
00:08:23 --> 00:08:26 launch later this year and it will.
00:08:27 --> 00:08:29 What the pundits uh are saying is it will
00:08:29 --> 00:08:32 attempt a quasi stable orbit around the
00:08:32 --> 00:08:35 tiny moon. This is a difficult task because
00:08:35 --> 00:08:38 there is truly no stable orbit around Phobos
00:08:38 --> 00:08:41 and the reason for that is that you've got
00:08:41 --> 00:08:43 this thing with such weak gravity that
00:08:43 --> 00:08:45 getting something into orbit around it will
00:08:45 --> 00:08:47 be a challenge in the first place. But right
00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 next to it, 6 kilometres away, as you've
00:08:50 --> 00:08:53 said, is a large planet, um, not a
00:08:53 --> 00:08:55 large planet by planetary standards, but a
00:08:55 --> 00:08:57 large by the standards of Phobos.
00:08:58 --> 00:09:01 So lots uh, of challenges there and I think
00:09:01 --> 00:09:02 um, hopefully it'll be something we will
00:09:02 --> 00:09:05 cover uh, over the next couple of years or so
00:09:05 --> 00:09:07 to find out what is happening with
00:09:08 --> 00:09:08 Phobos.
00:09:09 --> 00:09:12 Andrew Dunkley: And I understand that to try and figure out
00:09:12 --> 00:09:15 how it became Phobos. Is
00:09:15 --> 00:09:17 everything to do with what's happening inside
00:09:17 --> 00:09:18 Phobos?
00:09:18 --> 00:09:20 Professor Fred Watson: That's right, yes. Um,
00:09:21 --> 00:09:24 there's one. So there's a
00:09:24 --> 00:09:26 suggestion that it may actually have
00:09:26 --> 00:09:29 a large ice content, um, as well
00:09:29 --> 00:09:32 as rock, uh, but we just don't
00:09:32 --> 00:09:35 know about that. There's also, I think uh,
00:09:35 --> 00:09:38 there is suggestion too that
00:09:38 --> 00:09:39 um, there's
00:09:41 --> 00:09:43 a higher density region
00:09:43 --> 00:09:46 underneath this crater. Ah, Stickney. And
00:09:46 --> 00:09:49 you can sort of imagine that would be the
00:09:49 --> 00:09:52 case if you've got something um, which
00:09:52 --> 00:09:55 is like a piece of pumice or a kind
00:09:55 --> 00:09:58 of sponge like structure, you get a large
00:09:58 --> 00:10:01 ish object clouting the surface, which is
00:10:01 --> 00:10:03 probably what caused Stickney. You're going
00:10:03 --> 00:10:05 to get some compression, what you might call
00:10:05 --> 00:10:08 a localised zone of densified
00:10:08 --> 00:10:11 material. As the authors of this paper,
00:10:11 --> 00:10:13 uh, which has appeared in the monthly notices
00:10:13 --> 00:10:15 of the Royal Astronomical Society.
00:10:15 --> 00:10:17 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, well, when you look at the close up
00:10:17 --> 00:10:20 image that came from NASA jpl,
00:10:20 --> 00:10:23 uh, yeah, it doesn't look,
00:10:24 --> 00:10:27 I don't know how you'd describe it. Uh, I
00:10:27 --> 00:10:29 mean it's got a potato shape about it but
00:10:31 --> 00:10:33 it almost looks metallic in some respects.
00:10:33 --> 00:10:36 Professor Fred Watson: It does, that's correct. It's got. And
00:10:37 --> 00:10:38 I guess what you're looking at is kind of the
00:10:38 --> 00:10:40 same things that I see when I look at it. And
00:10:40 --> 00:10:43 that is craters with relatively sharp
00:10:43 --> 00:10:46 edges to them on the scale that we can
00:10:46 --> 00:10:48 see. And you know, that doesn't sound like
00:10:48 --> 00:10:51 something made of pumice. Um, if you've got
00:10:51 --> 00:10:53 uh, craters that have got well defined edges.
00:10:53 --> 00:10:56 So many mysteries, um, we came close
00:10:56 --> 00:10:58 to knowing more
00:10:59 --> 00:11:01 quite a few years ago. It's probably a decade
00:11:01 --> 00:11:04 ago now. Do you remember Phobos Grunt? Uh,
00:11:04 --> 00:11:06 yes. Which was a Russian
00:11:06 --> 00:11:09 spacecraft, uh, that was uh,
00:11:09 --> 00:11:12 going to go to Phobos and bring back a
00:11:12 --> 00:11:14 sample. Uh, Phobos Grunt. Grunt
00:11:14 --> 00:11:17 is effectively the Russian word for ground
00:11:17 --> 00:11:20 or you know, landing on the surface.
00:11:20 --> 00:11:23 Um, and uh, it failed
00:11:23 --> 00:11:26 because it got into orbit. But the
00:11:26 --> 00:11:28 spacecraft that was going to push it in the
00:11:28 --> 00:11:31 transfer orbit to Mars didn't work.
00:11:31 --> 00:11:34 And so eventually it just re. Entered back
00:11:34 --> 00:11:35 into the Earth's atmosphere. It was very sad.
00:11:36 --> 00:11:39 Um, it was um, uh, you know, a
00:11:39 --> 00:11:41 mission which we, we expected
00:11:42 --> 00:11:43 great things from.
00:11:43 --> 00:11:45 Andrew Dunkley: So maybe, um, the engines didn't fire
00:11:45 --> 00:11:46 properly.
00:11:46 --> 00:11:47 Professor Fred Watson: I think that was right. Yes. Yeah, that's
00:11:47 --> 00:11:48 right.
00:11:48 --> 00:11:50 Andrew Dunkley: And, uh, it. It just got stuck in low Earth
00:11:50 --> 00:11:51 orbit and that was the end of that.
00:11:51 --> 00:11:52 Professor Fred Watson: Yep.
00:11:52 --> 00:11:54 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, it happens. It happens.
00:11:54 --> 00:11:56 Professor Fred Watson: It does. We hope it won't happen with mmx,
00:11:56 --> 00:11:58 the, The Japanese mission.
00:11:58 --> 00:12:01 Andrew Dunkley: No, no. Um, I. Yeah, well,
00:12:01 --> 00:12:03 you can never say never, but, um, hopefully
00:12:03 --> 00:12:05 it will be very successful and we will learn
00:12:05 --> 00:12:08 more about Phobos and what makes it tick.
00:12:08 --> 00:12:11 Which way do you lean? Solid object that got
00:12:11 --> 00:12:14 captured or a collision
00:12:14 --> 00:12:15 type of event?
00:12:15 --> 00:12:18 Professor Fred Watson: I didn't know it ticked. Anyway, never mind.
00:12:19 --> 00:12:19 Andrew Dunkley: I hope not.
00:12:20 --> 00:12:23 Professor Fred Watson: I do too. Um, I think
00:12:23 --> 00:12:25 it might be a captured asteroid. That will be
00:12:25 --> 00:12:28 my view. Um, it's
00:12:28 --> 00:12:31 got sort of characteristics of asteroids
00:12:31 --> 00:12:34 that. That makes me think maybe
00:12:34 --> 00:12:37 it is basically just something that
00:12:37 --> 00:12:39 wandered too close to Mars and got captured.
00:12:41 --> 00:12:44 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I'm leaning that way too, but only
00:12:44 --> 00:12:46 because it seems more logical. I have no
00:12:47 --> 00:12:49 scientific backup to my claim, but, um,
00:12:50 --> 00:12:51 anyway, neither do I, really.
00:12:54 --> 00:12:56 It's, ah, interesting, Storey. You can read
00:12:56 --> 00:12:59 about it in the monthly Notices of the Royal,
00:12:59 --> 00:13:01 uh, Astronomical Society, as Fred Watson
00:13:01 --> 00:13:04 said, or you can go to universetoday.com,
00:13:04 --> 00:13:07 this is space Nuts, the podcast about
00:13:07 --> 00:13:09 astronomy and space science.
00:13:13 --> 00:13:15 Space Nuts and Fred Watson.
00:13:15 --> 00:13:17 We're going a little bit further away than
00:13:17 --> 00:13:20 Mars. We're heading 50, uh, seven light
00:13:20 --> 00:13:23 years away to, uh, an exoplanet. Uh, it's
00:13:23 --> 00:13:25 called GJ 504B.
00:13:26 --> 00:13:29 Uh, this planet has got a couple of really
00:13:29 --> 00:13:32 amazing characteristics. Um, one
00:13:32 --> 00:13:33 being it is pink.
00:13:34 --> 00:13:37 And the second being its atmosphere
00:13:37 --> 00:13:40 seems to be very, very salty. In fact, it
00:13:40 --> 00:13:42 could be the Himalayan
00:13:43 --> 00:13:45 salt planet, you just never know.
00:13:45 --> 00:13:48 Himalayan pink salt, very, very popular.
00:13:49 --> 00:13:51 Um, it's a very strange one
00:13:51 --> 00:13:54 and my wife would love to go there because,
00:13:55 --> 00:13:57 uh, as I've said, she really adores salt. You
00:13:57 --> 00:13:59 give her a steak, put salt on it, give her,
00:13:59 --> 00:14:01 um, um, vegetables, put salt on it.
00:14:02 --> 00:14:02 Andrew Dunkley: It.
00:14:02 --> 00:14:05 Andrew Dunkley: Ice cream, put more salt on it. Yeah,
00:14:05 --> 00:14:08 she loves her salt. Um, now
00:14:09 --> 00:14:11 I'm going to suffer a salt and battery if I
00:14:11 --> 00:14:12 keep talking about it like that.
00:14:14 --> 00:14:16 Tell us about this unusual pink planet.
00:14:16 --> 00:14:19 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, I'm glad you did the Himalayan
00:14:19 --> 00:14:22 salt thing, because if you hadn't,
00:14:22 --> 00:14:25 I would have done. Yeah, that's
00:14:25 --> 00:14:26 right. I don't know that the two are
00:14:26 --> 00:14:29 necessarily related. So, uh, it's, you know,
00:14:29 --> 00:14:31 there's quite a backstory with this. This is
00:14:31 --> 00:14:34 a planet, um, an exoplanet
00:14:35 --> 00:14:37 that is unusual in that we see it directly,
00:14:37 --> 00:14:40 as you and I have said many times.
00:14:40 --> 00:14:43 Uh most exoplanets we only infer their
00:14:43 --> 00:14:44 presence from the behaviour of their
00:14:45 --> 00:14:48 parent star. With this one we can
00:14:48 --> 00:14:50 actually see it which is how we know it's
00:14:50 --> 00:14:53 pink. Um, we've known about
00:14:53 --> 00:14:56 it for 13 years, discovered back in 2013.
00:14:57 --> 00:15:00 Uh but it's also a little
00:15:00 --> 00:15:03 bit um, of an enigma
00:15:03 --> 00:15:05 because its mass
00:15:06 --> 00:15:09 is about 25 times
00:15:09 --> 00:15:10 that of Jupiter.
00:15:10 --> 00:15:13 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, uh, well salt's not light.
00:15:17 --> 00:15:19 Professor Fred Watson: Well notwithstanding the salt we might get
00:15:19 --> 00:15:20 back to that in a minute
00:15:23 --> 00:15:26 to some other salty tales. Um,
00:15:27 --> 00:15:29 the thing is that if this
00:15:30 --> 00:15:32 object were ah just on its own in space
00:15:32 --> 00:15:35 rather than in orbit around another
00:15:35 --> 00:15:38 world, we wouldn't call it a planet, we'd
00:15:38 --> 00:15:40 call it a brown dwarf star. Because
00:15:41 --> 00:15:44 the um, criterion for
00:15:45 --> 00:15:47 an object to be a brown dwarf star
00:15:48 --> 00:15:51 is a mass more than 13 times that of
00:15:51 --> 00:15:54 Jupiter because that's the mass
00:15:54 --> 00:15:56 at uh, which some low level nuclear
00:15:56 --> 00:15:59 reactions switch on that distinguish it, I
00:15:59 --> 00:16:02 think it's deuterium burning is the technical
00:16:02 --> 00:16:05 term, distinguish it as a star
00:16:05 --> 00:16:08 rather than a planet. Uh and so I think the
00:16:08 --> 00:16:09 only reason it's being called a planet is
00:16:09 --> 00:16:12 because it's going around uh, another star.
00:16:12 --> 00:16:15 You could in fact almost say it's actually
00:16:15 --> 00:16:18 a double star. Uh but people
00:16:18 --> 00:16:20 don't seem to be saying that. I think it's
00:16:20 --> 00:16:23 because that 13 Jupiter masses is
00:16:23 --> 00:16:26 a fairly blurry ah sort of
00:16:26 --> 00:16:29 boundary for an object to be
00:16:29 --> 00:16:32 classified as a brown dwarf.
00:16:32 --> 00:16:35 Anyway, um, brown dwarfs are
00:16:35 --> 00:16:38 well known, well studied. They are this sort
00:16:38 --> 00:16:41 of interim phase where you've got low level
00:16:41 --> 00:16:44 nuclear processes, you don't have the nuclear
00:16:44 --> 00:16:46 fusion that uh, characterises a
00:16:46 --> 00:16:48 genuine star. Um,
00:16:49 --> 00:16:50 so um,
00:16:53 --> 00:16:56 I've just noted a sentence in this
00:16:56 --> 00:16:58 very nice article about this from the science
00:16:58 --> 00:17:00 blog, um, which uh,
00:17:00 --> 00:17:03 puts it perfectly, it sums up just what I've
00:17:03 --> 00:17:05 said. Uh, it says uh,
00:17:05 --> 00:17:08 astronomers hedge their bets and call it a
00:17:08 --> 00:17:11 planetary mass companion and that
00:17:11 --> 00:17:13 gets over the problem. It's a planetary mass
00:17:13 --> 00:17:16 companion rather than a planet and
00:17:16 --> 00:17:18 not necessarily a star. So there you go,
00:17:20 --> 00:17:22 Andrew Dunkley: to quote Monty Pothon, you're just making
00:17:22 --> 00:17:22 that up.
00:17:26 --> 00:17:28 Professor Fred Watson: We make it all up and trim, you know that but
00:17:28 --> 00:17:30 they don't. You're right, they don't know
00:17:30 --> 00:17:33 that. So um,
00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 also interesting uh, because it's
00:17:37 --> 00:17:40 cool so you know the most of the,
00:17:40 --> 00:17:43 and I mean cool in a temperature sense rather
00:17:43 --> 00:17:45 than um, its presence on social media.
00:17:46 --> 00:17:48 Uh, uh, most of these
00:17:49 --> 00:17:52 objects like brown dwarf stars are well over
00:17:52 --> 00:17:55 a thousand degrees Celsius. Um, this
00:17:55 --> 00:17:58 one is only 290
00:17:58 --> 00:18:01 degrees Celsius. Uh and once
00:18:01 --> 00:18:03 again going back to that um,
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07 science blog article, they've said
00:18:07 --> 00:18:09 that's about the temperature of an oven
00:18:09 --> 00:18:12 baking bread, um, which
00:18:12 --> 00:18:15 is, um, worn by terrestrial standards, but
00:18:15 --> 00:18:18 not by space standards. And so we've got this
00:18:18 --> 00:18:21 object, which is a mystery, uh, but
00:18:21 --> 00:18:23 the reason it's in the news is because,
00:18:24 --> 00:18:27 uh, there have been studies
00:18:27 --> 00:18:30 with the James Webb Telescope. Apparently
00:18:30 --> 00:18:33 this object has been studied a great deal
00:18:34 --> 00:18:36 in the 13 years that we've known about it.
00:18:36 --> 00:18:39 Um, but it's some observations now made
00:18:39 --> 00:18:41 with the James Webb Space Telescope, which
00:18:41 --> 00:18:43 continues to amaze us because of its
00:18:43 --> 00:18:46 capabilities. Um, and the
00:18:46 --> 00:18:46 spectrum,
00:18:48 --> 00:18:50 uh, of its atmosphere,
00:18:51 --> 00:18:54 of course, reveals these different spectral
00:18:54 --> 00:18:56 fingerprints. We talk about that a lot and
00:18:56 --> 00:18:58 space nuts. And it's what I used to do for a
00:18:58 --> 00:19:01 living. Uh, the spectral fingerprints of
00:19:01 --> 00:19:04 stars and galaxies. Uh, anyway, um,
00:19:04 --> 00:19:07 observations with this revealed a
00:19:07 --> 00:19:09 spectrum that was very difficult to
00:19:09 --> 00:19:12 understand, uh, because it had
00:19:12 --> 00:19:14 features that didn't seem to make
00:19:14 --> 00:19:17 any sense. Uh, and
00:19:18 --> 00:19:20 it turns out that the trick was
00:19:21 --> 00:19:24 to look at different
00:19:24 --> 00:19:26 sorts of clouds that you might have in the
00:19:26 --> 00:19:28 atmosphere rather than just a clear
00:19:28 --> 00:19:31 atmosphere. And it was when they
00:19:31 --> 00:19:34 basically tried to fit the spectra that would
00:19:34 --> 00:19:36 be produced by different types of clouds, uh,
00:19:37 --> 00:19:38 to what they were observing with the Webb
00:19:38 --> 00:19:41 Telescope, uh, that these, uh,
00:19:41 --> 00:19:43 authors, uh, who've done this research
00:19:44 --> 00:19:46 found that the best fit was salt clouds.
00:19:47 --> 00:19:50 And now I find it hard to imagine whether
00:19:50 --> 00:19:53 those are clouds of salt, of pure salt, uh,
00:19:53 --> 00:19:56 in a solid form, um, or
00:19:56 --> 00:19:59 whether it's not salt vapour.
00:20:00 --> 00:20:01 I don't think, um, because at, uh,
00:20:02 --> 00:20:04 temperature, um, it's likely
00:20:04 --> 00:20:06 to be solid salt.
00:20:07 --> 00:20:09 Andrew Dunkley: Wow, that's. Wow.
00:20:10 --> 00:20:12 I'm gonna show this to my wife. She'll be
00:20:12 --> 00:20:12 very, very excited.
00:20:13 --> 00:20:15 Professor Fred Watson: It's drifting. It's drifting in the air.
00:20:16 --> 00:20:18 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, so I could go out there now and say, you
00:20:18 --> 00:20:19 know, with. They've found planets that are
00:20:19 --> 00:20:20 made of diamond.
00:20:20 --> 00:20:21 Professor Fred Watson: Yes.
00:20:21 --> 00:20:22 Andrew Dunkley: And they found one made of salt. She said
00:20:22 --> 00:20:23 we're going there.
00:20:23 --> 00:20:24 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah,
00:20:26 --> 00:20:27 yeah, there you go.
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30 Andrew Dunkley: I'm taking, I'm taking the mickey. But, yeah,
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33 anyway, uh, it, uh.
00:20:33 --> 00:20:36 I just thought of something which I probably
00:20:36 --> 00:20:37 should have said at the time, but it can't be
00:20:37 --> 00:20:39 a brown dwarf. It's got to be a planet.
00:20:39 --> 00:20:39 Andrew Dunkley: It.
00:20:39 --> 00:20:41 Andrew Dunkley: Because it's not the right colour.
00:20:43 --> 00:20:46 Professor Fred Watson: Yes. Being pink. It is not brown. Is. It
00:20:46 --> 00:20:47 could be a new.
00:20:47 --> 00:20:49 Andrew Dunkley: Could be. We could have discovered a pink
00:20:49 --> 00:20:50 dwarf.
00:20:50 --> 00:20:52 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, well, maybe that's what it's going to
00:20:52 --> 00:20:54 be classified as. Because, you know, the, the
00:20:54 --> 00:20:57 colour itself must, must relate to,
00:20:57 --> 00:21:00 to what it looks like. To the, to the.
00:21:00 --> 00:21:03 Sorry, that's a tautology.
00:21:04 --> 00:21:06 Uh, the colour relates to the
00:21:06 --> 00:21:08 constituents of its clouds. That's what I
00:21:08 --> 00:21:10 meant to say, really. Yeah.
00:21:10 --> 00:21:12 Andrew Dunkley: Well, when you look at Jupiter, I mean, it's
00:21:12 --> 00:21:14 in the red spectrum too, isn't it, really?
00:21:15 --> 00:21:17 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, it is. It's got. Yeah. I mean, um,
00:21:18 --> 00:21:20 and Saturn as well. They've got colours that
00:21:20 --> 00:21:23 really, uh. In a sense, they're what we might
00:21:23 --> 00:21:26 describe as warmer colours. Although that
00:21:26 --> 00:21:28 doesn't. The temperature goes the other way.
00:21:28 --> 00:21:30 The warmth of the colour relates to something
00:21:30 --> 00:21:33 called the colour temperature. And the higher
00:21:33 --> 00:21:36 the colour temperature, the more white, um,
00:21:36 --> 00:21:38 and brilliant objects are, whether they're
00:21:38 --> 00:21:40 stars or lumps of metal or whatever.
00:21:41 --> 00:21:41 Andrew Dunkley: Um.
00:21:41 --> 00:21:43 Professor Fred Watson: But yes. So a pink one.
00:21:44 --> 00:21:47 The pink in a way matches
00:21:47 --> 00:21:50 the low temperature of this because
00:21:50 --> 00:21:52 anything that's glowing, um,
00:21:53 --> 00:21:55 would have colours that would characterise
00:21:55 --> 00:21:58 what its temperature is. So,
00:21:58 --> 00:22:00 um, I think we've solved one mystery there,
00:22:00 --> 00:22:01 Andrew.
00:22:01 --> 00:22:03 Andrew Dunkley: Maybe so. Yes. I knew we'd get somewhere
00:22:03 --> 00:22:06 sooner or later. We always endeavour to
00:22:07 --> 00:22:09 adequately deal with these issues.
00:22:10 --> 00:22:13 Yeah. Um, but no, it's a really fascinating
00:22:13 --> 00:22:16 planet and, um, well worth reading that,
00:22:16 --> 00:22:16 Storey.
00:22:17 --> 00:22:19 It's cool. It's pink. It's salty.
00:22:20 --> 00:22:22 I mean, that sounds very provocative.
00:22:23 --> 00:22:26 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, actually, it sounds like
00:22:26 --> 00:22:27 Scottish porridge.
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 Andrew Dunkley: I've had that. I had that last year when we
00:22:30 --> 00:22:32 went to Edinburgh. I loved it.
00:22:33 --> 00:22:35 Professor Fred Watson: It's very nice. Yeah. I had my porridge this
00:22:35 --> 00:22:37 morning, but I put honey in it.
00:22:37 --> 00:22:38 Andrew Dunkley: Sorry, just reminds m. Me. They, they. They,
00:22:39 --> 00:22:41 um. They have a drink called salt coffee
00:22:42 --> 00:22:43 in Vietnam.
00:22:43 --> 00:22:44 Professor Fred Watson: Okay.
00:22:44 --> 00:22:47 Andrew Dunkley: Which is. It's to die for, is it?
00:22:47 --> 00:22:50 It is, yeah. We got addicted to it. We had it
00:22:50 --> 00:22:51 every day while we were over there.
00:22:51 --> 00:22:52 Professor Fred Watson: Interesting.
00:22:52 --> 00:22:53 Andrew Dunkley: It is, really.
00:22:53 --> 00:22:55 Professor Fred Watson: Is it just coffee with salt in, or.
00:22:55 --> 00:22:58 Andrew Dunkley: No, it's. It's a. It's a shot of coffee, uh,
00:22:58 --> 00:23:00 then condensed milk and then cream
00:23:01 --> 00:23:03 salted. And they give it to you and it comes
00:23:03 --> 00:23:05 in three different layers and then you just
00:23:05 --> 00:23:08 stir it up and drink it. And we had it iced
00:23:08 --> 00:23:09 because it was so hot over there.
00:23:09 --> 00:23:10 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:23:10 --> 00:23:12 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, but you can have it hot as well. It's.
00:23:12 --> 00:23:15 It's delicious. Yes. And then you have
00:23:15 --> 00:23:15 a heart attack.
00:23:18 --> 00:23:20 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Which is less. Less delicious.
00:23:20 --> 00:23:23 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, very nice. But, um,
00:23:23 --> 00:23:24 there you go. If you want to read about the
00:23:24 --> 00:23:27 salty exoplanet, you can do that at science
00:23:27 --> 00:23:30 blogs. This is Space Nuts with
00:23:30 --> 00:23:32 Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson
00:23:32 --> 00:23:33 Watson.
00:23:34 --> 00:23:37 Professor Fred Watson: I believe that this nation should commit
00:23:37 --> 00:23:39 itself to achieving the goal
00:23:39 --> 00:23:42 before this decade is out, of landing a
00:23:42 --> 00:23:45 man on the moon and returning him safely to
00:23:45 --> 00:23:45 the Earth.
00:23:47 --> 00:23:49 Andrew Dunkley: Our final storey. Uh,
00:23:50 --> 00:23:52 Fred Watson, is about a swift mission to save
00:23:53 --> 00:23:55 A vital space observatory. This. This storey
00:23:55 --> 00:23:57 I've seen popping up a few times in recent,
00:23:57 --> 00:24:00 um, days. And
00:24:00 --> 00:24:03 it's, um. Because of the timing issue
00:24:03 --> 00:24:05 they've got with this, uh, they've got to act
00:24:06 --> 00:24:08 very swiftly to save the Swift
00:24:09 --> 00:24:10 observatory.
00:24:10 --> 00:24:13 Professor Fred Watson: Um, that's right. It's a swift storey.
00:24:13 --> 00:24:15 Sorry, a storey we'll cover swiftly
00:24:17 --> 00:24:20 at the end of the show. Um, it is. It's
00:24:20 --> 00:24:22 a great storey. And what's making.
00:24:22 --> 00:24:24 Andrew Dunkley: For all the wrong reasons, it's a great
00:24:24 --> 00:24:24 storey.
00:24:24 --> 00:24:26 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right. Uh, what's making the
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 headlines is that,
00:24:30 --> 00:24:33 uh, engineers and scientists have been able
00:24:33 --> 00:24:36 to do what they do, what they've done. Uh,
00:24:36 --> 00:24:39 and in fact, the main, uh, proponent of
00:24:39 --> 00:24:41 this is a company that only started in 2020.
00:24:42 --> 00:24:45 Uh, and so it's, um. Uh,
00:24:45 --> 00:24:48 basically a response to NASA
00:24:48 --> 00:24:50 saying, help, we need help.
00:24:51 --> 00:24:53 Andrew Dunkley: Somebody pitch an idea to fix this problem.
00:24:53 --> 00:24:55 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. And this company, Catalyst Space
00:24:55 --> 00:24:58 Technologies, did so. Uh, the background
00:24:58 --> 00:25:00 storey here is that Swift is a satel
00:25:01 --> 00:25:03 which has actually been in orbit, I think,
00:25:03 --> 00:25:05 since the early 2000s. I can't remember the
00:25:05 --> 00:25:08 exact year, but, uh, it's a,
00:25:08 --> 00:25:11 uh, venerable spacecraft. Uh,
00:25:11 --> 00:25:13 its job. Yeah.
00:25:14 --> 00:25:17 November 2004, that was
00:25:17 --> 00:25:17 when.
00:25:17 --> 00:25:19 Andrew Dunkley: 20th of, in fact.
00:25:19 --> 00:25:21 Professor Fred Watson: Indeed the 20th. Lots of twos there.
00:25:21 --> 00:25:24 Zeros. Um, and
00:25:24 --> 00:25:27 Swift, Uh, so it's a spacecraft that
00:25:27 --> 00:25:30 has basically proved its worth in a big way.
00:25:30 --> 00:25:33 And it's. Its, um, mission was
00:25:33 --> 00:25:36 and remains to detect gamma ray
00:25:36 --> 00:25:39 bursts. And these are, uh, bursts of gamma
00:25:39 --> 00:25:41 rays, as you'd expect, that we now know, come
00:25:41 --> 00:25:44 from probably colliding neutron
00:25:44 --> 00:25:47 stars, things of that sort, really energetic
00:25:47 --> 00:25:50 phenomena in deep space. Um,
00:25:50 --> 00:25:52 they themselves have an interesting history
00:25:52 --> 00:25:54 because gamma ray bursts were not known
00:25:54 --> 00:25:57 before the 1970s. And it was when,
00:25:58 --> 00:26:00 uh, various agencies launched
00:26:01 --> 00:26:03 spacecraft that could detect gamma rays,
00:26:04 --> 00:26:07 uh, in order not to look at the universe,
00:26:07 --> 00:26:09 but to look down on the Earth to make sure
00:26:09 --> 00:26:12 nobody was, uh, actually breaking the
00:26:12 --> 00:26:15 agreements of the nuclear test, uh,
00:26:15 --> 00:26:17 treaty, uh, and basically, um,
00:26:18 --> 00:26:21 doing nuclear testing in the atmosphere. That
00:26:21 --> 00:26:22 was what it was all about. It was to guard
00:26:22 --> 00:26:25 against, uh, maverick nuclear
00:26:25 --> 00:26:28 tests in the Earth's atmosphere. But it
00:26:28 --> 00:26:29 didn't discover any of those. But it did
00:26:29 --> 00:26:32 discover a whole new cosmic phenomenon. And
00:26:32 --> 00:26:34 the thing about gamma ray bursts is
00:26:35 --> 00:26:38 gamma rays itself don't tell you much
00:26:38 --> 00:26:41 about it except what
00:26:41 --> 00:26:43 direction this thing lies in. And
00:26:43 --> 00:26:46 so, uh, Swift, and its name is very well
00:26:46 --> 00:26:49 chosen, was a spacecraft that was designed to
00:26:49 --> 00:26:52 give swift measurements, uh, to
00:26:52 --> 00:26:54 the astronomical world so that they could
00:26:54 --> 00:26:57 very quickly turn their visible light
00:26:58 --> 00:27:01 and radio telescopes onto the place where
00:27:01 --> 00:27:03 this gamma ray burst had emitted and
00:27:03 --> 00:27:06 essentially sense an afterglow, what we
00:27:06 --> 00:27:09 call the optical counterpart in the case of
00:27:09 --> 00:27:11 visible light. And it's the optical
00:27:11 --> 00:27:12 counterpart that lets you do the
00:27:12 --> 00:27:14 astrophysics. It lets you make the
00:27:14 --> 00:27:15 measurements that you need to know how far
00:27:15 --> 00:27:18 away it is and what's been going on there.
00:27:18 --> 00:27:21 Uh, it's been a long time coming, our
00:27:21 --> 00:27:23 understanding of what's really going on with
00:27:23 --> 00:27:25 gamma ray bursts for a long time, they're a
00:27:25 --> 00:27:28 complete mystery. Anyway, Swift as a
00:27:28 --> 00:27:31 satellite has got fabulous track record,
00:27:31 --> 00:27:34 but it does not boast
00:27:34 --> 00:27:37 in its retinue, uh, of instruments, it
00:27:37 --> 00:27:39 doesn't boast any thrusters. Uh,
00:27:40 --> 00:27:43 and yeah, it does seem like in modern,
00:27:43 --> 00:27:45 you know, our modern understanding of the way
00:27:45 --> 00:27:47 you put a satellite into orbit. You want to
00:27:47 --> 00:27:49 have something that will actually let you
00:27:49 --> 00:27:52 shift its position or its height, even if
00:27:52 --> 00:27:53 it's only to get out of the way of the
00:27:53 --> 00:27:55 nearest Starlink spacecraft that's going to
00:27:55 --> 00:27:58 collide with it if you don't. So, um,
00:27:58 --> 00:28:00 it doesn't have thrusters. It would belong to
00:28:00 --> 00:28:03 an earlier E. And of course
00:28:03 --> 00:28:06 its initial orbit I think was
00:28:06 --> 00:28:08 um, something like
00:28:09 --> 00:28:12 uh, getting on for 600 kilometres. That was
00:28:12 --> 00:28:14 its early orbit, 585
00:28:14 --> 00:28:17 kilometres above Earth. But
00:28:17 --> 00:28:20 over the decades, uh, and there have been
00:28:20 --> 00:28:23 a couple of them, uh, that
00:28:23 --> 00:28:26 orbit has deteriorated because even at that
00:28:26 --> 00:28:27 height there is still
00:28:29 --> 00:28:31 a trace, excuse me, a trace of the Earth's
00:28:31 --> 00:28:34 atmosphere. And so
00:28:34 --> 00:28:37 that trace uh, of atmosphere is enough
00:28:37 --> 00:28:40 to break the spacecraft. B R A K E not B R
00:28:40 --> 00:28:43 E A K uh, which will slow it down
00:28:43 --> 00:28:45 and of course as you slow it down it
00:28:45 --> 00:28:47 descends and as it descends it hits more
00:28:47 --> 00:28:50 atmosphere which slows it down even more and
00:28:50 --> 00:28:52 then it descends even more. And you're on
00:28:52 --> 00:28:54 this pathway to ah, a re entry.
00:28:55 --> 00:28:58 Um, it's currently I uh, think,
00:28:58 --> 00:29:01 uh, flying at 363
00:29:01 --> 00:29:03 kilometres. So that's quite a long way down.
00:29:03 --> 00:29:05 Andrew Dunkley: That's a big deterioration in its orbit.
00:29:05 --> 00:29:08 Professor Fred Watson: It is, that's right. And that deterioration
00:29:08 --> 00:29:11 will not just continue, it will increase
00:29:11 --> 00:29:14 as it experiences a thicker atmosphere.
00:29:14 --> 00:29:17 It's not helped actually by the fact that the
00:29:17 --> 00:29:19 sun's been pretty active uh, over
00:29:20 --> 00:29:22 recent years. We've seen a lot of solar
00:29:22 --> 00:29:24 flares and um, um, coronal mass
00:29:24 --> 00:29:27 ejections and things of that sort. Uh and we
00:29:27 --> 00:29:30 know that as the subatomic
00:29:30 --> 00:29:32 particle flux from the sun increases, which
00:29:32 --> 00:29:35 it does in these events, it tends to
00:29:35 --> 00:29:38 kind of fluff up the Earth's atmosphere. Uh,
00:29:38 --> 00:29:41 it raises its height. In fact, Starlink, uh,
00:29:41 --> 00:29:43 SpaceX fell foul of that some years ago when
00:29:44 --> 00:29:46 a Number of the spacecraft that they launched
00:29:46 --> 00:29:48 didn't uh, actually make it into orbit
00:29:48 --> 00:29:51 because the Earth's atmosphere was puffed up
00:29:51 --> 00:29:54 by solar activity. So that's been happening
00:29:54 --> 00:29:56 and that's increase the um, you know, the
00:29:57 --> 00:29:59 uh, risk of re entry for
00:29:59 --> 00:30:01 Swift. So along come, uh,
00:30:02 --> 00:30:04 um, Catalyst Space Technologies
00:30:05 --> 00:30:08 and said, uh, we can do it. And
00:30:08 --> 00:30:10 they've actually built and prepared, I think,
00:30:10 --> 00:30:13 along with collaborators, a spacecraft
00:30:13 --> 00:30:16 which will be launched, uh, actually later
00:30:16 --> 00:30:18 this month, I think in about five days. Uh,
00:30:18 --> 00:30:21 at the time we're recording this, uh, if I
00:30:22 --> 00:30:25 read my uh, uh, notes on
00:30:25 --> 00:30:27 this correctly, uh,
00:30:29 --> 00:30:31 it will go to orbit. It will actually be an
00:30:31 --> 00:30:34 air launch. One of these fairly rare launches
00:30:34 --> 00:30:36 where you carry a rocket underneath the belly
00:30:36 --> 00:30:38 of a spacecraft, uh, sorry, of an aircraft,
00:30:39 --> 00:30:41 take it up to 39 or 40ft,
00:30:41 --> 00:30:44 then release it, uh, and the rocket
00:30:44 --> 00:30:47 burn then takes it up to orbital speed.
00:30:47 --> 00:30:50 Um, it's a great way of
00:30:50 --> 00:30:52 choosing just exactly where you want to
00:30:52 --> 00:30:54 launch from, which often has an impact on the
00:30:54 --> 00:30:57 orbit that the spacecraft will go into. So
00:30:57 --> 00:30:58 that's what's going to happen.
00:30:58 --> 00:31:00 Andrew Dunkley: That's how they used to test the space
00:31:00 --> 00:31:03 shuttles initially and drop them
00:31:03 --> 00:31:04 off. Of dropping them off a plane.
00:31:04 --> 00:31:06 Professor Fred Watson: That's correct, they did. To get their
00:31:06 --> 00:31:09 landing characteristics. And actually, um, a
00:31:09 --> 00:31:11 company called Virgin Orbital, uh,
00:31:12 --> 00:31:15 run by Mr. Virgin, uh, Richard
00:31:15 --> 00:31:17 Branson, uh, was
00:31:18 --> 00:31:20 all set uh, to kind of capture that
00:31:20 --> 00:31:23 market, but they had a failure a few years
00:31:23 --> 00:31:25 ago when they tried to launch from Cornwall
00:31:25 --> 00:31:26 and in fact wound up the company.
00:31:27 --> 00:31:29 Um, so that company doesn't exist. There are
00:31:29 --> 00:31:32 still other companies doing the same
00:31:32 --> 00:31:35 sort of thing. Uh, anyway, um, we
00:31:35 --> 00:31:38 hope that the spacecraft
00:31:38 --> 00:31:40 that will be launched, which if I remember
00:31:40 --> 00:31:43 rightly is called Link, uh, Link,
00:31:43 --> 00:31:46 will link up with Swift. Swift. It will. I
00:31:46 --> 00:31:48 think it's got three robotic arms that will
00:31:48 --> 00:31:50 grab, um, onto the Swift spacecraft
00:31:50 --> 00:31:53 and it will then
00:31:54 --> 00:31:56 fire its rockets in order to push
00:31:57 --> 00:31:59 Swift into a higher orbit and it
00:31:59 --> 00:32:02 may even stay attached so that we've
00:32:02 --> 00:32:05 got perhaps future opportunities to uh,
00:32:05 --> 00:32:07 increase its orbital height again. Yeah,
00:32:07 --> 00:32:07 yeah.
00:32:07 --> 00:32:10 Andrew Dunkley: If, if they do not succeed, and I'm not going
00:32:10 --> 00:32:13 to, to put the mocker on them, but uh, if
00:32:13 --> 00:32:15 they don't, it's likely to come crashing
00:32:15 --> 00:32:18 down. Late 2000 and twenties, early 2000 and
00:32:18 --> 00:32:21 thirties. But we've got to get to it
00:32:21 --> 00:32:23 faster than that because once it gets within.
00:32:24 --> 00:32:26 Was it 300 kilometres?
00:32:26 --> 00:32:26 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:32:26 --> 00:32:28 Andrew Dunkley: All bets are off.
00:32:28 --> 00:32:30 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right. It's too high.
00:32:30 --> 00:32:32 Andrew Dunkley: It's getting pretty darn close to that now.
00:32:32 --> 00:32:33 Professor Fred Watson: Yep, it's not far off that's right.
00:32:34 --> 00:32:36 Andrew Dunkley: So they have to, they have to have this
00:32:36 --> 00:32:38 mission up and done by.
00:32:39 --> 00:32:40 I think it's October, isn't it? Or something
00:32:40 --> 00:32:41 like that.
00:32:41 --> 00:32:44 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, um, that's correct. It's
00:32:44 --> 00:32:47 got a good deal of urgency about it.
00:32:47 --> 00:32:50 I think NASA is extremely
00:32:50 --> 00:32:53 pleased that this company's risen to
00:32:53 --> 00:32:54 this and been able to do it. Uh,
00:32:55 --> 00:32:58 and so I, uh, guess what's happened is
00:32:58 --> 00:33:00 they've, you know, you've built slightly
00:33:00 --> 00:33:03 higher levels of risk into the whole process
00:33:03 --> 00:33:05 of manufacturing, designing and manufacturing
00:33:05 --> 00:33:07 it. Uh, that would not necessarily m. Be
00:33:07 --> 00:33:10 acceptable, uh, if you were doing
00:33:10 --> 00:33:13 things the conventional way, but by cutting
00:33:13 --> 00:33:15 some of that risk aversion, if I can put it
00:33:15 --> 00:33:18 that way, um, you would save, ah, time.
00:33:19 --> 00:33:22 Andrew Dunkley: All right, well, we wish them well. Um,
00:33:22 --> 00:33:25 it's going to be exciting either way, but
00:33:25 --> 00:33:27 hopefully, fingers crossed, they'll be
00:33:27 --> 00:33:30 successful and Swift will keep on
00:33:30 --> 00:33:33 keeping on. Uh, we will know very, very soon.
00:33:34 --> 00:33:36 They've got no time to muck around with this
00:33:36 --> 00:33:38 one. So, uh, we'll keep our fingers
00:33:38 --> 00:33:41 crossed for, uh. And you
00:33:41 --> 00:33:44 can read all about it@, um,
00:33:44 --> 00:33:46 arstechnica.com a
00:33:46 --> 00:33:48 r s
00:33:48 --> 00:33:51 technica.com and that just about
00:33:51 --> 00:33:53 wraps it up. Fred Watson, thank you so much.
00:33:53 --> 00:33:56 Professor Fred Watson: Ah, it's a pleasure. It's always good to have
00:33:56 --> 00:33:58 some great storeys, Andrew. Yeah, that was
00:33:58 --> 00:33:59 fun. We usually do.
00:33:59 --> 00:34:00 Andrew Dunkley: Lots of fun.
00:34:00 --> 00:34:00 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:34:01 --> 00:34:04 Andrew Dunkley: And I know we're our next planet. Um, uh,
00:34:04 --> 00:34:06 or our next holiday we'll
00:34:06 --> 00:34:07 Professor Fred Watson: be going to Pink Planet.
00:34:07 --> 00:34:09 Andrew Dunkley: The Pink Planet. Yes, that's right. We might
00:34:09 --> 00:34:11 be able to get that company to build us a
00:34:11 --> 00:34:12 rocket catalyst.
00:34:12 --> 00:34:14 Professor Fred Watson: They could probably, yeah. If you told them
00:34:14 --> 00:34:15 now, you could be away in a couple of weeks.
00:34:15 --> 00:34:17 Andrew Dunkley: Could be easily, yeah.
00:34:17 --> 00:34:18 Professor Fred Watson: It's only 57 light years.
00:34:19 --> 00:34:22 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, well, you know, plenty of time to sleep,
00:34:23 --> 00:34:26 probably. Permanent sleep. Never mind. Um,
00:34:26 --> 00:34:27 thank you, Fred Watson. We'll catch you next
00:34:27 --> 00:34:28 time.
00:34:28 --> 00:34:30 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, it's a great pleasure, Andrew. See you
00:34:30 --> 00:34:30 soon.
00:34:31 --> 00:34:33 Andrew Dunkley: Professor Fred Watson Watson, Astronomer at
00:34:33 --> 00:34:35 large. Don't forget to visit us, uh, online
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00:34:53 --> 00:34:55 to say no. And, uh, thanks to Huw in the
00:34:55 --> 00:34:58 studio who couldn't be with us today because
00:34:58 --> 00:35:01 he wasn't swift enough. Boom, boom.
00:35:02 --> 00:35:04 From me, Andrew Dunkley. Thanks for your
00:35:04 --> 00:35:06 company. We'll see you on the next episode of
00:35:06 --> 00:35:09 Space Nuts. Bye. Bye. You've
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