In this thrilling episode of Space Nuts, hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson bring you the latest updates from the world of astronomy. From the anticipated Artemis 2 mission to the tantalising possibility of wormholes, and the discovery of a rare Einstein cross, this episode is a cosmic journey through some of the most exciting developments in space science.
Episode Highlights:
- Artemis 2 Update: Andrew and Fred Watson discuss the Artemis 2 mission, which is set to launch as early as February 5th, 2026. The hosts explore the significance of this mission, which will see astronauts venture beyond low Earth orbit for the first time in over 50 years, and the implications for future lunar exploration.
- Wormhole Discovery? The conversation shifts to a fascinating gravitational wave event detected in 2019, which has led to speculation about the existence of wormholes. Andrew and Fred Watson delve into the new interpretations of this event and what it could mean for our understanding of the universe.
- Einstein Chris Observations: The episode wraps up with a discussion on the recent discovery of a rare Einstein cross, a phenomenon that provides unique insights into the distribution of dark matter and the nature of distant galaxies. The hosts explain how this discovery can enhance our understanding of cosmic structures.
For more Space Nuts, including our continuously updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on Facebook, X, YouTube Music, Tumblr, Instagram, and TikTok. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favourite platform.
If you’d like to help support Space Nuts and join our growing family of insiders for commercial-free episodes and more, visit spacenutspodcast.com/about
Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
Got a question for our Q&A episode? https://spacenutspodcast.com/ama
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:00 Andrew Dunkley: Hi there.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Andrew Dunkley: Thanks for joining us yet again. This is
00:00:02 --> 00:00:04 Space Nuts. My name is Andrew Dunkley, your
00:00:04 --> 00:00:06 host and it is so good to have your company
00:00:07 --> 00:00:10 and I hope you're well. Uh, coming up on this
00:00:10 --> 00:00:12 particular episode, Artemis 2.
00:00:12 --> 00:00:15 Yes, the mission to the moon. Uh, we have an
00:00:15 --> 00:00:17 update for you and it's really good news.
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 Could we have discovered a wormhole?
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 That's a big question. And an Einstein cross
00:00:24 --> 00:00:26 has been spotted. They marked it with a cross
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28 and then drew a circle around it. That's all
00:00:28 --> 00:00:31 coming up on this edition of space nuts.
00:00:31 --> 00:00:34 Generic: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.
00:00:34 --> 00:00:37 10, 9. Ignition
00:00:37 --> 00:00:40 sequence star space nuts. 5, 4, 3,
00:00:40 --> 00:00:42 2. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4,
00:00:43 --> 00:00:46 3, 2, 1. Space nuts. Astronauts
00:00:46 --> 00:00:47 report it feels good.
00:00:47 --> 00:00:50 Andrew Dunkley: And he's here again to unravel
00:00:50 --> 00:00:52 all the revelment of space space
00:00:52 --> 00:00:55 science. His name is Professor Fred Watson
00:00:55 --> 00:00:56 Watson, astronomer at large. Hello,
00:00:56 --> 00:00:57 Fred Watson.
00:00:57 --> 00:00:59 Professor Fred Watson: Hello, Andrew. I think actually we're
00:00:59 --> 00:01:00 probably as good at, uh, ravelling it as we
00:01:00 --> 00:01:02 are unravelling it. Really.
00:01:02 --> 00:01:05 Andrew Dunkley: I, I tend to agree. Yes, you're
00:01:05 --> 00:01:06 absolutely right.
00:01:06 --> 00:01:09 Before we get into today's top topics,
00:01:09 --> 00:01:12 you are, um, uh, in Melbourne, I believe, uh,
00:01:12 --> 00:01:13 attending, uh, a conference.
00:01:13 --> 00:01:16 Professor Fred Watson: I am, yes. Uh, sunny Melbourne, which
00:01:16 --> 00:01:18 isn't at the moment, although it was briefly
00:01:18 --> 00:01:20 this morning. Four seasons in one day is what
00:01:20 --> 00:01:21 they say about Melbourne.
00:01:21 --> 00:01:22 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, reputation for that.
00:01:23 --> 00:01:25 Professor Fred Watson: I think we' already this week.
00:01:25 --> 00:01:28 So, um, the conference I'm at is at Deakin
00:01:28 --> 00:01:30 University here in Melbourne. It is called
00:01:30 --> 00:01:33 Astro. Edu or Astro
00:01:33 --> 00:01:35 Edu, um, for Astronomy Education
00:01:36 --> 00:01:38 2025. And it's actually an international
00:01:38 --> 00:01:41 conference, Uh, I think I'm right in saying
00:01:41 --> 00:01:42 it's sponsored by the International
00:01:42 --> 00:01:45 Astronomical Union. Um, so
00:01:45 --> 00:01:46 it's a conference of international
00:01:48 --> 00:01:50 astronomy educators. And so quite a
00:01:50 --> 00:01:53 lot of it is about the
00:01:53 --> 00:01:55 theory of education, as,
00:01:56 --> 00:01:58 you know, applied to astronomy education.
00:01:58 --> 00:02:00 Quite a lot of it is about the practise of
00:02:00 --> 00:02:02 astronomy education. So there are real
00:02:02 --> 00:02:05 teachers here, uh, who teach kids, um,
00:02:05 --> 00:02:08 you know, from kindergarten to year
00:02:09 --> 00:02:11 12, uh, and university as well.
00:02:11 --> 00:02:14 Um, and um, one or two astronomers as well.
00:02:14 --> 00:02:17 And we're there because we're interested in
00:02:17 --> 00:02:19 education. I'm, um, only an amateur
00:02:19 --> 00:02:22 educator, but a professional astronomer. So
00:02:22 --> 00:02:25 my talk yesterday was about the
00:02:25 --> 00:02:28 possibilities for using mega
00:02:28 --> 00:02:29 constellations in astronomy education.
00:02:30 --> 00:02:31 Because there's quite a number of ideas that
00:02:31 --> 00:02:34 come out of, you know, what we and you and I
00:02:34 --> 00:02:36 talk about routinely. Uh, the mega
00:02:36 --> 00:02:39 constellations, um, a lot of astronomy
00:02:39 --> 00:02:42 in that. And in terms of, um, trying
00:02:42 --> 00:02:44 to, uh, perhaps,
00:02:44 --> 00:02:47 uh, provide some, um,
00:02:47 --> 00:02:50 background in astronomy education that might
00:02:50 --> 00:02:53 otherwise, um, be missed. Um,
00:02:53 --> 00:02:55 and I'm thinking of things like, you know,
00:02:55 --> 00:02:56 how you measure the brightness of the
00:02:56 --> 00:02:58 satellites. We use the star magnitudes the
00:02:58 --> 00:03:00 same as we do in astronomy. Uh, why
00:03:00 --> 00:03:03 satellites are bright themselves, why radio
00:03:03 --> 00:03:05 telescopes are at great risk from satellite,
00:03:05 --> 00:03:07 uh, constellations, all of the above.
00:03:08 --> 00:03:10 Um, but um, my talk aside,
00:03:10 --> 00:03:12 which was a minor contribution to this
00:03:12 --> 00:03:14 conference, there have been some fantastic
00:03:14 --> 00:03:17 presentations, um, really encouraging
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19 about the state of astronomy education
00:03:20 --> 00:03:23 in lands as far apart as
00:03:23 --> 00:03:26 Chile, uh, and uh, Germany
00:03:26 --> 00:03:28 and Belgium, Sweden,
00:03:29 --> 00:03:32 Portugal, North America, Canada.
00:03:32 --> 00:03:34 Inspiring presentation from Canada this
00:03:34 --> 00:03:37 morning. Lovely chat from an educator in
00:03:37 --> 00:03:39 Hawaii, uh, who I talk to later because I
00:03:39 --> 00:03:42 used to work in Hawaii a lot. So a lot of
00:03:42 --> 00:03:45 the folklore tales in astronomy he was
00:03:45 --> 00:03:47 aware of and some, what some of his
00:03:47 --> 00:03:49 colleagues were as well. But what was really
00:03:49 --> 00:03:51 nice was getting a shout out from uh, from a
00:03:51 --> 00:03:53 couple of, particularly a couple of this
00:03:53 --> 00:03:55 morning's presenters. They did get a keynote
00:03:55 --> 00:03:58 presentation, um, um, Mari Timms and
00:03:58 --> 00:04:00 Sandra Woodward. Um, uh,
00:04:01 --> 00:04:04 um, m mentioned, um, you know, stuff that
00:04:04 --> 00:04:07 I do and that we do, uh, including a very
00:04:07 --> 00:04:09 nice shout out about space nuts, which
00:04:10 --> 00:04:13 apparently is um, very much
00:04:13 --> 00:04:15 a source of inspiration to talk about with,
00:04:15 --> 00:04:17 with kids in class.
00:04:17 --> 00:04:18 Andrew Dunkley: Oh, wonderful.
00:04:18 --> 00:04:20 Professor Fred Watson: Maybe we are useful after all, Andrew.
00:04:20 --> 00:04:23 Andrew Dunkley: Possibly. Maybe we do contribute a little bit
00:04:23 --> 00:04:25 to education. Or maybe it's pseudoscience.
00:04:26 --> 00:04:27 Professor Fred Watson: No, it's not pseudoscience.
00:04:27 --> 00:04:28 Andrew Dunkley: No, it's not, not at all.
00:04:29 --> 00:04:31 Professor Fred Watson: It's just um, you know, it's our take on the
00:04:31 --> 00:04:33 universe which might not necessarily be the
00:04:33 --> 00:04:34 same as some other people's, but I think
00:04:34 --> 00:04:36 we're reasonably near the mark.
00:04:36 --> 00:04:39 Andrew Dunkley: So that's so rare in science. Frick.
00:04:40 --> 00:04:42 Professor Fred Watson: Yes. Um,
00:04:42 --> 00:04:43 yeah.
00:04:43 --> 00:04:45 So that's why I'm here in Melbourne in a
00:04:45 --> 00:04:47 hotel room. Jordy is um, about a thousand
00:04:47 --> 00:04:49 kilometres away, so you might not hear him
00:04:49 --> 00:04:49 today.
00:04:49 --> 00:04:50 Andrew Dunkley: I think we will hear him.
00:04:52 --> 00:04:53 Professor Fred Watson: I think we will probably.
00:04:54 --> 00:04:56 Andrew Dunkley: Oh, uh, wonderful. I'm glad it's going well.
00:04:56 --> 00:04:58 And uh, a lot of people there.
00:04:58 --> 00:05:01 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, there are 81 participants. Yes. Uh, some
00:05:01 --> 00:05:03 of them are online but uh, there's quite a
00:05:03 --> 00:05:05 good healthy handful. What, what I also
00:05:05 --> 00:05:08 really like about it is the gender
00:05:08 --> 00:05:09 balance. 50. 50.
00:05:10 --> 00:05:11 Andrew Dunkley: Excellent.
00:05:11 --> 00:05:11 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. 50.
00:05:11 --> 00:05:12 Andrew Dunkley: 50.
00:05:13 --> 00:05:15 Professor Fred Watson: Um, that's um. Yeah, I think that's a very
00:05:15 --> 00:05:16 important aspect of it.
00:05:16 --> 00:05:19 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I, we can't claim M.50.50, but
00:05:19 --> 00:05:21 this week we're running in Dubbo, uh,
00:05:22 --> 00:05:24 the uh, New South Wales Veterans
00:05:25 --> 00:05:26 State Golf Championships.
00:05:26 --> 00:05:27 Professor Fred Watson: Oh yes, you said you were.
00:05:27 --> 00:05:30 Andrew Dunkley: And we've got about 100 and let's say
00:05:30 --> 00:05:32 120. 130
00:05:33 --> 00:05:35 participants and about
00:05:36 --> 00:05:38 nearly 50 of them are women. So.
00:05:38 --> 00:05:38 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
00:05:38 --> 00:05:39 Andrew Dunkley: That's pretty good.
00:05:39 --> 00:05:40 Professor Fred Watson: That is great.
00:05:40 --> 00:05:42 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I'm having a crack at the championship.
00:05:43 --> 00:05:46 I've got, uh. I think the funny
00:05:46 --> 00:05:48 story is, uh, I said to someone, look, I've
00:05:48 --> 00:05:50 signed up for the state championships. I
00:05:50 --> 00:05:53 don't know why. And he said to me, oh, no,
00:05:53 --> 00:05:55 no, you gotta play. And I said, why do you
00:05:55 --> 00:05:56 think that? He said, because they need at
00:05:56 --> 00:05:57 least 40 players.
00:05:59 --> 00:06:01 Thanks. Thanks for the vote of confidence.
00:06:03 --> 00:06:05 I've actually played two rounds and I've done
00:06:05 --> 00:06:05 all right.
00:06:05 --> 00:06:06 Professor Fred Watson: Oh, that's great.
00:06:07 --> 00:06:08 Andrew Dunkley: I'm not going to win. There's a couple of
00:06:08 --> 00:06:11 guns that are just. But I'm hoping to finish
00:06:11 --> 00:06:12 top 10 state championship.
00:06:12 --> 00:06:15 Professor Fred Watson: Top 10 will be pretty damn good for golf,
00:06:15 --> 00:06:18 which is not an easy game. No, but aren't you
00:06:18 --> 00:06:20 organising the event? Isn't this a conflict
00:06:20 --> 00:06:20 of interest?
00:06:20 --> 00:06:23 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, yeah, I'm part of the committee, but, uh,
00:06:23 --> 00:06:26 my only major role is to emcee the
00:06:26 --> 00:06:28 presentation night.
00:06:28 --> 00:06:30 Professor Fred Watson: So if you're getting an award.
00:06:30 --> 00:06:33 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, I won't be giving the awards. I'm just
00:06:33 --> 00:06:36 the mc. But I. Look, that's
00:06:36 --> 00:06:37 not even going to be a problem.
00:06:39 --> 00:06:41 Not unless I shoot the lights out in the
00:06:41 --> 00:06:43 final round tomorrow. But we'll see.
00:06:43 --> 00:06:45 Professor Fred Watson: Well, you might do. You might. You never do
00:06:45 --> 00:06:47 that. Putting the lights out so was a good
00:06:47 --> 00:06:47 move.
00:06:47 --> 00:06:50 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, Golf's like that.
00:06:50 --> 00:06:52 Could go the other way as well. I've got to
00:06:52 --> 00:06:54 keep that in mind. Now we, we uh,
00:06:55 --> 00:06:56 better get down to why we're here and uh,
00:06:56 --> 00:06:58 that is to talk about things that are
00:06:58 --> 00:07:00 happening in astronomy and space science.
00:07:00 --> 00:07:03 And one of the things we've talked about, uh,
00:07:03 --> 00:07:05 on a fairly regular basis is, uh, these, uh,
00:07:05 --> 00:07:08 NASA missions to the moon, known as the
00:07:08 --> 00:07:11 Artemis project. Um, Artemis
00:07:11 --> 00:07:14 1 has been, and done its thing, ah, a
00:07:14 --> 00:07:16 lap of the moon with nobody on board or maybe
00:07:16 --> 00:07:19 a couple of plush toys. Um, but,
00:07:19 --> 00:07:22 uh, now they're saying that they
00:07:22 --> 00:07:25 think Artemis 2 will be on its way,
00:07:25 --> 00:07:28 uh, at the latest. April, but possibly
00:07:28 --> 00:07:28 sooner.
00:07:29 --> 00:07:31 Professor Fred Watson: Well, it was, um, no sooner than April. That
00:07:31 --> 00:07:34 was the deal, uh, so far. But
00:07:34 --> 00:07:37 the news we've had today is that
00:07:37 --> 00:07:40 the launch window, uh, in fact is being
00:07:40 --> 00:07:42 brought forward and could be as early as the
00:07:42 --> 00:07:43 5th of February.
00:07:43 --> 00:07:44 Andrew Dunkley: Yes.
00:07:44 --> 00:07:46 Professor Fred Watson: So we're looking now at ah,
00:07:46 --> 00:07:49 Artemis flying much earlier than
00:07:49 --> 00:07:52 we had expected. Artemis 2.
00:07:52 --> 00:07:54 Um, and I think one of the reasons for that
00:07:54 --> 00:07:57 is that we've, We've been seeing news
00:07:57 --> 00:07:59 reports. I'm sure you've caught them as well,
00:07:59 --> 00:08:01 Andrew, that um, the hardware is
00:08:01 --> 00:08:04 ready to go, that the, you know, the space
00:08:04 --> 00:08:06 launch system, which will take astronauts to
00:08:06 --> 00:08:08 the moon. And um, the, the
00:08:08 --> 00:08:11 Orion capsule, it's all ready to go.
00:08:11 --> 00:08:14 Um, and bearing in mind that this, this
00:08:14 --> 00:08:16 mission is essentially a Repeat of the
00:08:16 --> 00:08:19 11-22-2022 mission,
00:08:19 --> 00:08:22 uh, which was a 25 day mission, it's actually
00:08:22 --> 00:08:25 a shorter, shorter version of it. Uh but
00:08:25 --> 00:08:27 Artemis 1, um, basically did what
00:08:27 --> 00:08:30 Artemis 2 will do. It launched and
00:08:31 --> 00:08:33 uh, sent this, the capsule into
00:08:33 --> 00:08:36 orbit around the moon, um taking it actually
00:08:36 --> 00:08:38 quite a lot further away than the moon's
00:08:38 --> 00:08:41 distance, um, and then bringing it back re
00:08:41 --> 00:08:44 entering and picking it up in, in the ocean.
00:08:44 --> 00:08:47 So that was a very successful um,
00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 dress rehearsal for what Artemis 2
00:08:50 --> 00:08:51 will be like. And I'm sure the four
00:08:51 --> 00:08:54 astronauts who are going to fly uh, trained
00:08:54 --> 00:08:57 up to the gunnels, uh and it
00:08:57 --> 00:09:00 will be really great to see them
00:09:00 --> 00:09:02 stepping into the spacecraft in February I
00:09:02 --> 00:09:02 think.
00:09:02 --> 00:09:04 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, yes. Won't that be exciting? And the
00:09:04 --> 00:09:07 first time in 54
00:09:07 --> 00:09:10 years is it uh, we've
00:09:10 --> 00:09:11 sent people to the moon?
00:09:12 --> 00:09:15 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, yes, um, well 1970.
00:09:15 --> 00:09:18 No, 72 was the last. 72,
00:09:18 --> 00:09:20 that's right, yes it's, it will be 54. Yes,
00:09:20 --> 00:09:23 you're right, 54 years. Um, um,
00:09:25 --> 00:09:27 the thing that, a
00:09:27 --> 00:09:30 point I didn't make is that um, these, the
00:09:30 --> 00:09:32 astronauts will not land on the moon. That's
00:09:32 --> 00:09:34 Artemis 3. Artemis 2 is
00:09:34 --> 00:09:37 purely going around the moon, uh, and going
00:09:37 --> 00:09:39 through all the required manoeuvres that will
00:09:40 --> 00:09:43 be needed when um, they actually do
00:09:43 --> 00:09:45 go to the moon in Artemis 3, for example, um,
00:09:45 --> 00:09:47 this idea of you know,
00:09:48 --> 00:09:51 undocking spacecraft ah from a, from a
00:09:51 --> 00:09:53 module, a service module, turning it around
00:09:53 --> 00:09:55 to be facing the way you want it to and then
00:09:55 --> 00:09:58 re docking again. That kind of manoeuvre very
00:09:58 --> 00:10:00 much the stocking trade of the Apollo era
00:10:00 --> 00:10:02 astronauts. But of course now we've got new
00:10:02 --> 00:10:05 technology, quite uh, different technology.
00:10:05 --> 00:10:08 Um, a quick shout out to the crew. Uh,
00:10:08 --> 00:10:11 Christina Koch, Richard Glover. Victor
00:10:11 --> 00:10:12 Glover. Not Richard Glover,
00:10:14 --> 00:10:17 Victor Glover, sorry Victor. Um, uh,
00:10:17 --> 00:10:20 Reed Wiseman and Jeremy Hansen. They are
00:10:20 --> 00:10:23 the ah, the Crew of Artemis
00:10:23 --> 00:10:25 2. Heavily in training I'm sure
00:10:25 --> 00:10:28 still and all ready to take their um, their
00:10:28 --> 00:10:31 Orion capsule around the moon to give us
00:10:31 --> 00:10:34 a fabulous view. So yes, the point um,
00:10:34 --> 00:10:36 I think that you're making is that this is
00:10:36 --> 00:10:39 the first time in 54 years that
00:10:39 --> 00:10:41 astronauts will have gone out of low Earth
00:10:41 --> 00:10:43 orbit which is where they've been uh, in the
00:10:43 --> 00:10:45 International Space Station. We haven't had
00:10:45 --> 00:10:48 anybody going, venturing out and of course
00:10:48 --> 00:10:50 when you do that, when you go between the
00:10:50 --> 00:10:52 moon and the Earth, you're in what we might
00:10:52 --> 00:10:54 call deep space from A point of view of a,
00:10:54 --> 00:10:57 uh, spacecraft, uh, which means that
00:10:57 --> 00:10:59 you're uh, subject to the sun's radiation and
00:10:59 --> 00:11:01 all of that other stuff. And uh. So there'll
00:11:01 --> 00:11:04 be lots and lots of medical work done, um,
00:11:04 --> 00:11:06 on analysing how these astronauts have
00:11:06 --> 00:11:08 reacted to that and responded to that.
00:11:08 --> 00:11:11 Andrew Dunkley: Yes, yes. And uh. I believe that they
00:11:11 --> 00:11:13 will be, um.
00:11:13 --> 00:11:16 Travelling further than any other human being
00:11:16 --> 00:11:18 has ever gone in terms of space travel.
00:11:18 --> 00:11:20 Because they'll be travelling
00:11:20 --> 00:11:23 9 kilometres past the moon.
00:11:23 --> 00:11:25 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right, yeah. Yeah.
00:11:25 --> 00:11:27 Andrew Dunkley: They still, they still won't be the most
00:11:27 --> 00:11:29 isolated human humans in history. Michael
00:11:29 --> 00:11:32 Collins still retains that because he was by
00:11:32 --> 00:11:34 himself, uh, in orbit around the
00:11:34 --> 00:11:37 moon. And uh, I believe in his
00:11:37 --> 00:11:40 mission, Apollo 11, he was further out
00:11:40 --> 00:11:42 than any of the others that were on the
00:11:42 --> 00:11:43 command module.
00:11:44 --> 00:11:46 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, I think that's correct. I mean all the.
00:11:47 --> 00:11:49 All the Apollo, uh, uh, missions had a
00:11:49 --> 00:11:51 command, a command module pilot.
00:11:52 --> 00:11:54 Uh, as you said, Michael Collins was the one
00:11:54 --> 00:11:56 for Apollo 11. But I think you're also right
00:11:56 --> 00:11:58 that the orbit that Apollo 11 was uh,
00:11:59 --> 00:12:01 in was further out from the moon's surface.
00:12:01 --> 00:12:04 Andrew Dunkley: Then that's how I understand it. However,
00:12:04 --> 00:12:05 the difference with this one is every, uh,
00:12:06 --> 00:12:08 other mission we've sent to the moon has had
00:12:08 --> 00:12:10 three astronauts. This has got four.
00:12:10 --> 00:12:10 Professor Fred Watson: Yes.
00:12:11 --> 00:12:12 Andrew Dunkley: Um, so that's a first.
00:12:12 --> 00:12:14 Professor Fred Watson: Yep, it is. That's. That's right. That's a
00:12:14 --> 00:12:17 big first. New technology. It's a much
00:12:17 --> 00:12:20 more spacious capsule, the Orion capsule,
00:12:20 --> 00:12:23 uh, which I think, uh, will
00:12:24 --> 00:12:26 really be, um. It'll be luxury
00:12:27 --> 00:12:29 compared with. With the Apollo.
00:12:29 --> 00:12:30 Apollo capsules.
00:12:31 --> 00:12:33 Andrew Dunkley: I imagine so. And we wish them well. Uh,
00:12:33 --> 00:12:36 three representatives of NASA and one, uh,
00:12:36 --> 00:12:39 Jeremy Hansen from the Canadian Space Agency.
00:12:39 --> 00:12:41 So that's. That's pretty good too. Ah, we'll
00:12:41 --> 00:12:43 watch with interest. And as you said,
00:12:43 --> 00:12:45 Fred Watson, all the gear is ready to go.
00:12:45 --> 00:12:47 This, uh, space launch system, the Orion
00:12:47 --> 00:12:49 capsule, which had a couple of glitches
00:12:49 --> 00:12:51 coming back to Earth, uh, on Artemis 1.
00:12:51 --> 00:12:53 They've fixed that. I think it overheated.
00:12:53 --> 00:12:56 Uh, and a few other things that they've
00:12:56 --> 00:12:59 sorted out. So they're good to go. So, um.
00:12:59 --> 00:13:01 Yeah, just waiting for the right. Right
00:13:01 --> 00:13:03 weather and the right data to set off. So,
00:13:03 --> 00:13:06 um, yes, there'll be more to talk about as we
00:13:06 --> 00:13:09 get into the early months of 2026
00:13:10 --> 00:13:12 for the Artemis 2 launch. This
00:13:12 --> 00:13:14 is Space Nuts. Andrew Dunkley. Oh, if you
00:13:14 --> 00:13:16 want to read about that, of course, uh, it's
00:13:16 --> 00:13:19 everywhere but BBC, uh, dot com has a good
00:13:19 --> 00:13:19 story about it.
00:13:22 --> 00:13:24 Generic: Three, two, one.
00:13:25 --> 00:13:26 Andrew Dunkley: Straight Space nuts.
00:13:26 --> 00:13:28 Now we'll keep the introduction to this one,
00:13:28 --> 00:13:30 fairly short. Could we have discovered a
00:13:30 --> 00:13:31 wormhole, Fred Watson?
00:13:32 --> 00:13:34 Professor Fred Watson: Um, that's the usual answer.
00:13:35 --> 00:13:35 Maybe.
00:13:36 --> 00:13:37 Andrew Dunkley: I knew it.
00:13:39 --> 00:13:42 Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, maybe. Um, so what we're
00:13:42 --> 00:13:44 talking about is a gravitational
00:13:44 --> 00:13:47 wave signal. Excuse me, a
00:13:47 --> 00:13:50 slight frog in my throat there. Not a geordie
00:13:50 --> 00:13:53 in my throat, just a frog. Um, it's
00:13:53 --> 00:13:55 one that was recorded back in 2019.
00:13:55 --> 00:13:58 So, uh, we've had access, ah, to
00:13:58 --> 00:14:01 the gravitational wave sky, if I can put it
00:14:01 --> 00:14:03 that way, for 10 years now. And in fact,
00:14:04 --> 00:14:06 um, the first gravitational wave
00:14:06 --> 00:14:09 signal was uh, on the
00:14:09 --> 00:14:12 14th of September, 2015, Marnie's
00:14:12 --> 00:14:14 birthday, as it happens. Uh, so the
00:14:14 --> 00:14:17 LIGO people, the large Interferometric.
00:14:17 --> 00:14:20 Sorry, a Laser Interferometric Gravitational
00:14:20 --> 00:14:22 Wave Observatory, uh, they
00:14:22 --> 00:14:25 have been celebrating their 10th anniversary
00:14:25 --> 00:14:28 since operations came in. Um,
00:14:28 --> 00:14:30 they have been joined by Virgo, uh,
00:14:31 --> 00:14:33 another gravitational wave observatory. And
00:14:33 --> 00:14:36 since then Kagura, which is in Japan.
00:14:36 --> 00:14:39 Uh, so, um, these, uh, three
00:14:39 --> 00:14:42 facilities are currently routinely
00:14:42 --> 00:14:45 looking at gravitational wave science.
00:14:45 --> 00:14:47 They're seeing exploding or
00:14:47 --> 00:14:50 colliding neutron stars coming in ten a
00:14:50 --> 00:14:52 penny. Um, uh, however,
00:14:52 --> 00:14:55 this, and this goes back to when it was just
00:14:55 --> 00:14:57 LIGO and Virgo. In 2019, there
00:14:57 --> 00:15:00 was a very, very different
00:15:01 --> 00:15:03 gravitational wave event detected
00:15:03 --> 00:15:06 by uh, uh, the
00:15:06 --> 00:15:08 two interferometers.
00:15:08 --> 00:15:11 Um, you and I have spoken
00:15:11 --> 00:15:14 before about the characteristic sound,
00:15:15 --> 00:15:17 uh, because it is in the audio frequency
00:15:17 --> 00:15:20 regime. Characteristic, uh, sound of two
00:15:20 --> 00:15:22 neutron stars colliding or a neutron star and
00:15:22 --> 00:15:24 a black hole or two black holes. It's that
00:15:24 --> 00:15:27 chirp sound. It's uh,
00:15:27 --> 00:15:30 with the frequency increasing as these things
00:15:30 --> 00:15:32 spin together and then just vanishes when
00:15:32 --> 00:15:35 they collide. It's when they undergo what's
00:15:35 --> 00:15:37 called the ring down where the two black
00:15:37 --> 00:15:39 holes actually merge. Yeah, but this one was
00:15:39 --> 00:15:41 nothing like that. And I'm not going to
00:15:41 --> 00:15:43 impersonate what it sounded like, but it was
00:15:43 --> 00:15:44 more of a crack.
00:15:44 --> 00:15:45 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, was it, Was it, Was it.
00:15:47 --> 00:15:50 Professor Fred Watson: No, it could be something completely
00:15:50 --> 00:15:51 different
00:15:55 --> 00:15:57 because I'm sure there's a joke about Uranus
00:15:57 --> 00:15:58 you can make with that, but I'm not, I'm not
00:15:58 --> 00:16:01 even going to go there. So,
00:16:02 --> 00:16:05 uh, the, um. Yeah, so it was more of a crack.
00:16:05 --> 00:16:08 It was, it was less than, uh, a tenth
00:16:08 --> 00:16:10 of a second in duration. These normal
00:16:10 --> 00:16:13 signals take a few seconds to build up the
00:16:13 --> 00:16:16 frequency and then they disappear with that,
00:16:16 --> 00:16:18 you know, that chirp. Um, but this
00:16:18 --> 00:16:21 one was over in 10 seconds.
00:16:23 --> 00:16:26 So, um, there has been work done on trying
00:16:26 --> 00:16:28 to explain this. It's got a name. All these
00:16:28 --> 00:16:31 things have a name that starts with GW and
00:16:31 --> 00:16:33 ends with the date spelled backwards. Uh, so
00:16:33 --> 00:16:36 this was GW190521
00:16:37 --> 00:16:40 for the date, which was the 21st of May,
00:16:40 --> 00:16:43 uh, 2019. And, um,
00:16:45 --> 00:16:47 the best interpretation,
00:16:48 --> 00:16:50 which I guess is what you might call the
00:16:50 --> 00:16:53 standard picture, is that. Yes, it is. Two
00:16:53 --> 00:16:55 black hairs. Two black hairs.
00:16:55 --> 00:16:55 Generic: Two.
00:16:55 --> 00:16:56 Professor Fred Watson: Two black holes.
00:16:57 --> 00:16:58 Andrew Dunkley: It's about all you've got on your head,
00:16:58 --> 00:16:59 Fred Watson.
00:17:01 --> 00:17:03 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, I'll have to look for the other one. Um,
00:17:03 --> 00:17:06 there's two, uh. Two
00:17:06 --> 00:17:09 black holes snaring each other. Not.
00:17:09 --> 00:17:11 Not two black hairs snoring each other. Which
00:17:11 --> 00:17:14 is, I think, is what I was going to say. Two
00:17:14 --> 00:17:16 black holes snaring each other. Uh, in
00:17:16 --> 00:17:18 passing, I'm reading the account that is, um,
00:17:18 --> 00:17:21 on Science Alert, uh, written by Michelle
00:17:21 --> 00:17:23 Starr, an old friend of Space nuts, uh, with
00:17:23 --> 00:17:25 a name that tells it like it is. Um,
00:17:27 --> 00:17:29 so, uh, that's the standard interpretation.
00:17:29 --> 00:17:32 But there's a new paper that has come
00:17:32 --> 00:17:35 from, um, astronomy, um,
00:17:35 --> 00:17:37 astronomers, physicists actually,
00:17:38 --> 00:17:40 uh, which is what you need to be to do
00:17:40 --> 00:17:41 gravitational waves, I guess. But
00:17:41 --> 00:17:44 astrophysics is probably the real name. A
00:17:44 --> 00:17:46 physicist in China, University of Chinese
00:17:47 --> 00:17:49 Academy of Sciences. Uh, we've seen a new
00:17:49 --> 00:17:51 interpretation which is
00:17:52 --> 00:17:55 that, uh, what this
00:17:55 --> 00:17:58 event depicted was not two
00:17:58 --> 00:18:01 black holes colliding in our
00:18:01 --> 00:18:03 universe, but in another universe.
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07 Whoa. And what we're hearing, or what
00:18:07 --> 00:18:09 we're sensing is the gravitational
00:18:09 --> 00:18:12 disturbance, uh, of an event in
00:18:12 --> 00:18:15 another universe that comes through a
00:18:15 --> 00:18:18 collapsing wormhole that
00:18:18 --> 00:18:21 was, um, basically, um,
00:18:21 --> 00:18:23 formed in the merger and collapsed after
00:18:23 --> 00:18:24 the end of it.
00:18:25 --> 00:18:27 Andrew Dunkley: So, um, that's a huge claim.
00:18:28 --> 00:18:31 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, it is, isn't it? So
00:18:31 --> 00:18:33 let me quote from Michel's article, um, in
00:18:33 --> 00:18:36 Science Alert. To be clear, the black hole
00:18:36 --> 00:18:38 collision right here in our own universe is
00:18:38 --> 00:18:41 still the preferred interpretation of the
00:18:41 --> 00:18:44 strange signal. But that preference is not
00:18:44 --> 00:18:46 strong enough to rule out the wormhole
00:18:46 --> 00:18:49 model entirely. Uh, and that's, um,
00:18:49 --> 00:18:52 basically a quote from the. The preprint that
00:18:52 --> 00:18:54 these, um, uh, scientists in, In
00:18:54 --> 00:18:56 China have published.
00:18:57 --> 00:18:59 Um, so it's,
00:19:00 --> 00:19:02 you know, it's, it's.
00:19:03 --> 00:19:05 It's. It's a quite a remarkable thing.
00:19:06 --> 00:19:08 Uh, Michel's article is relatively
00:19:08 --> 00:19:10 short, although there's quite a lot of detail
00:19:10 --> 00:19:13 in there. Uh, but the bottom line
00:19:13 --> 00:19:16 is, you know, if. If it was.
00:19:17 --> 00:19:19 If that was the correct interpretation,
00:19:19 --> 00:19:20 uh, of, uh,
00:19:21 --> 00:19:23 GW190521,
00:19:24 --> 00:19:26 uh, and anything else we found that was like
00:19:26 --> 00:19:28 it. If that was the, uh, the
00:19:29 --> 00:19:31 confirmed interpretation that it was a
00:19:31 --> 00:19:34 temporary wormhole, allowing us to sort of
00:19:34 --> 00:19:37 hear the, uh, the echo of.
00:19:38 --> 00:19:40 Excuse me, I'm gonna sneeze. Andrew. Sorry
00:19:40 --> 00:19:40 about that.
00:19:40 --> 00:19:42 Andrew Dunkley: It's. That Time of the year over here.
00:19:42 --> 00:19:43 Professor Fred Watson: I think that was a, I think that was a
00:19:43 --> 00:19:46 wormhole collapsing. Um, yeah, it
00:19:46 --> 00:19:48 wouldn't, it wouldn't. If you could, if it,
00:19:48 --> 00:19:50 if that was the preferred interpretation, it
00:19:50 --> 00:19:52 wouldn't just suggest that these things
00:19:52 --> 00:19:55 exist. Wormholes have been a feature of
00:19:55 --> 00:19:58 science fiction as well as science writing.
00:19:58 --> 00:20:00 The, the fact that they theoretically could
00:20:00 --> 00:20:02 exist but we've got no evidence of them. Uh,
00:20:02 --> 00:20:04 but what she says is it wouldn't just confirm
00:20:04 --> 00:20:07 the existence of these, these things. Um, it
00:20:07 --> 00:20:10 also gives uh, us a, ah, a new way
00:20:10 --> 00:20:13 of, of investigating their
00:20:13 --> 00:20:16 properties. Um, and you know, that might
00:20:17 --> 00:20:19 lead to a whole new branch of astronomy,
00:20:19 --> 00:20:21 wormhole studies. Well, wouldn't that be
00:20:21 --> 00:20:22 extraordinary?
00:20:22 --> 00:20:25 Andrew Dunkley: It would be, but it also opens up
00:20:25 --> 00:20:28 um, another thing that's only theoretical
00:20:29 --> 00:20:32 multiple universe theory. So if we've
00:20:32 --> 00:20:35 detected the collision of two black holes
00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 in another universe and detected it through
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 the opening up of a temporary wormhole, I
00:20:40 --> 00:20:41 mean that's a double banger.
00:20:42 --> 00:20:44 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, that is, uh, except that
00:20:44 --> 00:20:47 you would need to rule out the possibility
00:20:47 --> 00:20:49 that this wormhole was linking two bits of
00:20:49 --> 00:20:52 our own universe because
00:20:52 --> 00:20:55 that's one of the things that has been
00:20:55 --> 00:20:57 suggested. But maybe the Chinese paper,
00:20:58 --> 00:21:00 uh, actually uh, has ruled that out. I'm not
00:21:00 --> 00:21:01 sure because I haven't looked at the
00:21:01 --> 00:21:04 preprint. Um, but yes,
00:21:04 --> 00:21:07 uh, it is, is really
00:21:07 --> 00:21:10 rather remarkable. Uh, what the
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13 uh, scientists in uh, China have done is
00:21:13 --> 00:21:16 basically modelled what you would get
00:21:16 --> 00:21:19 if you had a gravitational wave signal
00:21:19 --> 00:21:22 from another universe coming
00:21:22 --> 00:21:25 through a wormhole. Um, and they've
00:21:25 --> 00:21:27 modelled that and they've compared that with
00:21:27 --> 00:21:30 this particular event, um,
00:21:30 --> 00:21:33 and uh, reasonably happy that their model
00:21:33 --> 00:21:36 actually fits the data. Um, in fact
00:21:36 --> 00:21:38 they say um,
00:21:38 --> 00:21:41 that uh, you know, it's, it's comparable
00:21:41 --> 00:21:43 with it. I don't think it's as
00:21:44 --> 00:21:46 accurate as the black hole merger
00:21:47 --> 00:21:49 waveform, uh, which is, would be a
00:21:49 --> 00:21:51 conventional view that you've got two black
00:21:51 --> 00:21:52 holes that have merged together in our
00:21:52 --> 00:21:55 universe. Um, it's uh, that's
00:21:55 --> 00:21:58 apparently just a very slightly
00:21:58 --> 00:22:01 better fit to the observed signal than their
00:22:01 --> 00:22:03 wormhole model. But it's still a
00:22:04 --> 00:22:06 possible scenario. So
00:22:06 --> 00:22:09 uh, I think uh, this
00:22:09 --> 00:22:12 will be uh, very
00:22:12 --> 00:22:15 much uh, a pathway
00:22:15 --> 00:22:18 for further investigation of wormholes.
00:22:18 --> 00:22:21 Uh, just generally. Um, so what
00:22:21 --> 00:22:23 should we expect if wormholes do exist? What
00:22:23 --> 00:22:24 should we expect? It's not, it's all very
00:22:24 --> 00:22:26 well just talking about space worms I
00:22:26 --> 00:22:27 imagine.
00:22:29 --> 00:22:31 Yeah. Well there you go. You can, I think you
00:22:31 --> 00:22:33 can get um, tablets for those.
00:22:35 --> 00:22:38 Uh, anyway, um, it's, yes, it's,
00:22:38 --> 00:22:40 it's a really interesting piece of work
00:22:41 --> 00:22:43 obviously. Uh, quite controversial,
00:22:44 --> 00:22:46 quite attention grabbing, headline grabbing.
00:22:46 --> 00:22:47 Generic: Yeah.
00:22:47 --> 00:22:49 Professor Fred Watson: And um, I'm gonna have a look at the
00:22:49 --> 00:22:51 preprint, which I haven't had time to look at
00:22:51 --> 00:22:53 yet. In fact I'm clicking on the link now.
00:22:54 --> 00:22:56 Uh, and it's, it takes me to A paper called
00:22:56 --> 00:22:59 IS GW 190521 A Gravitational
00:22:59 --> 00:23:01 Wave Echo of a Wormhole Remnant from Another
00:23:01 --> 00:23:04 Universe. What a great title.
00:23:04 --> 00:23:06 Andrew Dunkley: That is a great title. And uh, hopefully it's
00:23:06 --> 00:23:08 true. I think that'd be great. Uh, it would
00:23:08 --> 00:23:11 give us something new to study and we might
00:23:11 --> 00:23:14 even work out how to create our own wormholes
00:23:14 --> 00:23:16 and travel long distances at the blink of an
00:23:16 --> 00:23:16 eye.
00:23:16 --> 00:23:17 Professor Fred Watson: Wouldn't that be great?
00:23:17 --> 00:23:18 Andrew Dunkley: Wouldn't it be awesome?
00:23:19 --> 00:23:21 Professor Fred Watson: Yes. We had a little certainly get you.
00:23:21 --> 00:23:21 Andrew Dunkley: Out of jury duty.
00:23:24 --> 00:23:26 Professor Fred Watson: Not necessarily. Because if you're in the
00:23:26 --> 00:23:28 other side of the world they'd write to you
00:23:28 --> 00:23:30 and say look, you've just got to use your
00:23:30 --> 00:23:31 wormhole machine and.
00:23:31 --> 00:23:33 Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, well, yeah, that's a possibility. All
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36 this exciting stuff. Uh, if you'd like to
00:23:36 --> 00:23:37 read about that, you can do that at the
00:23:37 --> 00:23:40 Science Alert website, sciencealert.com
00:23:40 --> 00:23:43 and read Michelle's article. Or you can go to
00:23:43 --> 00:23:45 the source, the preprint server on
00:23:45 --> 00:23:48 archive. This is Space Nuts with
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50 Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson
00:23:50 --> 00:23:51 Watson.
00:23:53 --> 00:23:55 Generic: 0G and I feel fine.
00:23:55 --> 00:23:57 Andrew Dunkley: Space Nuts, our final story.
00:23:58 --> 00:24:00 Fred Watson, uh, takes us uh, into space
00:24:00 --> 00:24:03 to see something very rare indeed. An
00:24:03 --> 00:24:06 Einstein cross has been spotted.
00:24:07 --> 00:24:09 Uh, X marks the spot and they drew a circle
00:24:09 --> 00:24:10 around it.
00:24:11 --> 00:24:14 Professor Fred Watson: Well that's kind of what you have to do. Yes,
00:24:14 --> 00:24:17 uh, in uh, this case, uh, the observations of
00:24:17 --> 00:24:19 the Einstein cross weren't made with visible
00:24:19 --> 00:24:21 light telescopes or infrared telescopes,
00:24:22 --> 00:24:25 but with our old friend alma, the Atacama
00:24:25 --> 00:24:27 Large Millimetre Submillimeter Array, which
00:24:27 --> 00:24:29 we're more used to seeing, uh,
00:24:29 --> 00:24:32 connected to images of protoplanetary discs
00:24:32 --> 00:24:35 and a high frequency radio radiation
00:24:35 --> 00:24:38 from protoplanetary discs is something
00:24:38 --> 00:24:41 that is very much the stocking trade of alma.
00:24:41 --> 00:24:44 But now they've been observing, I mean they
00:24:44 --> 00:24:46 do observe galaxies as well. What they've
00:24:46 --> 00:24:49 observed is an Einstein cross.
00:24:49 --> 00:24:52 This is usually uh, it's
00:24:52 --> 00:24:54 four images of one object in a shape a
00:24:54 --> 00:24:57 little bit like the Southern Cross in our,
00:24:57 --> 00:24:59 ah, Southern Hemisphere sky,
00:24:59 --> 00:25:02 um, which are all images of the same
00:25:02 --> 00:25:05 object. Uh, but there's
00:25:05 --> 00:25:06 something intervening, there's something
00:25:06 --> 00:25:09 between them that creates a gravitational
00:25:09 --> 00:25:12 lens, uh, that separates,
00:25:12 --> 00:25:14 splits the light coming from the distant
00:25:14 --> 00:25:17 object. And uh, as it passes through the
00:25:17 --> 00:25:19 gravitational lens in the foreground, uh,
00:25:19 --> 00:25:22 it's split into four components forming a
00:25:22 --> 00:25:25 cross the reason why this one is particularly
00:25:25 --> 00:25:27 rare is that it has a central image as well.
00:25:27 --> 00:25:30 It's a five image
00:25:30 --> 00:25:31 Einstein cross. And I think there's only one
00:25:31 --> 00:25:34 other one that is actually known, uh,
00:25:34 --> 00:25:37 with gravitational uh, lensing. Um, and
00:25:37 --> 00:25:40 so uh, yeah the story is that um,
00:25:41 --> 00:25:42 this object, uh,
00:25:44 --> 00:25:46 the Einstein cross is the
00:25:46 --> 00:25:49 multiple images of a uh,
00:25:50 --> 00:25:52 background galaxy, uh, known as
00:25:52 --> 00:25:55 hers three or her S3.
00:25:55 --> 00:25:58 Probably her S3. Um, that's
00:25:58 --> 00:26:01 a uh, galaxy which is 11.6 billion
00:26:01 --> 00:26:03 light years away. So we've got a look back
00:26:03 --> 00:26:05 time of 1.6 billion years. Well on the way to
00:26:05 --> 00:26:08 the beginning of the universe. Yes. And
00:26:09 --> 00:26:11 it's gone past uh, a group of
00:26:11 --> 00:26:14 galaxies, a sort of
00:26:14 --> 00:26:17 cluster of galaxies uh, which are in
00:26:17 --> 00:26:20 the foreground and ah, they're only 7.8
00:26:20 --> 00:26:23 billion light years from us, which is still a
00:26:23 --> 00:26:25 staggering distance. But that is the gravity
00:26:26 --> 00:26:29 uh, source that is bending the space and
00:26:29 --> 00:26:31 forming these multiple images. Uh,
00:26:31 --> 00:26:34 and so um, it tells us
00:26:34 --> 00:26:36 about both objects, it tells us about the
00:26:36 --> 00:26:39 distant galaxy of which this is a, a uh,
00:26:39 --> 00:26:41 multiple image. It tells us about the
00:26:41 --> 00:26:44 distribution of matter in the foreground
00:26:44 --> 00:26:46 galaxy cluster. And the really interesting
00:26:46 --> 00:26:49 thing is that what they've shown uh,
00:26:49 --> 00:26:51 the scientists who've done this work,
00:26:52 --> 00:26:54 um, it's ah, a Parisian
00:26:54 --> 00:26:57 group based in Paris, uh, or the leader
00:26:57 --> 00:27:00 is um, based in Paris. Uh,
00:27:00 --> 00:27:02 what they've shown is that the
00:27:03 --> 00:27:06 sort of centre of mass of the
00:27:06 --> 00:27:09 galaxy cluster is not,
00:27:09 --> 00:27:12 is off to one side of where the galaxies
00:27:12 --> 00:27:14 are. And that in itself is
00:27:14 --> 00:27:17 peculiar because we interpret that as saying
00:27:17 --> 00:27:19 that the most of the mass in this cluster is
00:27:19 --> 00:27:22 in the form of dark matter. Uh and it's the
00:27:22 --> 00:27:25 dark matter clump uh, that is kind of
00:27:25 --> 00:27:27 offset from the galaxies that we can see.
00:27:27 --> 00:27:30 That's not um, unique. There are other
00:27:30 --> 00:27:33 circumstances like that in the
00:27:33 --> 00:27:35 universe but this is quite unusual that you
00:27:35 --> 00:27:37 know we've got an Einstein cross created by
00:27:38 --> 00:27:40 a cluster of galaxies whose centre of mass,
00:27:40 --> 00:27:43 if I can put it that way, is off to one side
00:27:43 --> 00:27:45 because of the distribution of dark matter
00:27:45 --> 00:27:45 around it.
00:27:46 --> 00:27:48 Andrew Dunkley: Fascinating. I suppose it also begs the
00:27:48 --> 00:27:51 question that uh, we're looking at the same
00:27:51 --> 00:27:53 thing in five different timelines.
00:27:54 --> 00:27:57 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right. And that actually adds
00:27:58 --> 00:28:00 uh, something really interesting to this. Um,
00:28:01 --> 00:28:03 uh, and certainly in the early days of
00:28:03 --> 00:28:05 these kinds of observations, Einstein
00:28:05 --> 00:28:07 crosses. And it goes back actually to the
00:28:07 --> 00:28:10 1970s. I remember when the first double
00:28:10 --> 00:28:12 quasars were being observed and they're
00:28:12 --> 00:28:13 formed by a similar process. There's
00:28:13 --> 00:28:16 something in between the quasar and yourself.
00:28:16 --> 00:28:18 The quasars are kind of delinquent galaxy,
00:28:18 --> 00:28:21 uh, that's multiplying the image. Um,
00:28:21 --> 00:28:24 there's a, um, a quote from,
00:28:24 --> 00:28:27 uh, Tanu Dylan,
00:28:27 --> 00:28:30 who's at Washington University in St.
00:28:30 --> 00:28:32 Louis, wasn't, uh, involved in this research.
00:28:33 --> 00:28:35 But a very nice quote that says the
00:28:35 --> 00:28:37 magnification may allow
00:28:38 --> 00:28:41 unusually detailed studies of
00:28:41 --> 00:28:44 a star burst galaxy at redshift
00:28:44 --> 00:28:46 3. And that's redshift 3 is
00:28:46 --> 00:28:49 what tells you it's, uh, that far away.
00:28:49 --> 00:28:52 11.5 billion years, light years,
00:28:52 --> 00:28:54 uh, when the universe was less than a fifth
00:28:54 --> 00:28:57 of its current age, including its gas, star
00:28:57 --> 00:28:59 formation and possible outflows.
00:29:00 --> 00:29:02 And what you really need,
00:29:02 --> 00:29:05 um, is some visible
00:29:05 --> 00:29:08 variation in the
00:29:08 --> 00:29:10 light of the source
00:29:10 --> 00:29:13 galaxy because the light path,
00:29:13 --> 00:29:16 uh, to form each of these five individual
00:29:16 --> 00:29:19 images of that object is different. And
00:29:19 --> 00:29:21 so you expect these to be
00:29:21 --> 00:29:24 delayed. Uh, and in fact, that was the
00:29:24 --> 00:29:26 thing about the double quasars. You could see
00:29:26 --> 00:29:29 variability in an object which
00:29:29 --> 00:29:32 was mimicked by the second
00:29:33 --> 00:29:35 image of it. This is how we knew that there
00:29:35 --> 00:29:37 were two images of the same thing back in the
00:29:37 --> 00:29:40 day. Uh, uh, an object would get brighter,
00:29:40 --> 00:29:43 the quasar would get brighter, and there'd be
00:29:43 --> 00:29:45 a delay between one image and the other. If
00:29:45 --> 00:29:47 you could do that with five images, then you
00:29:47 --> 00:29:49 can learn an awful lot. Um, there is another
00:29:49 --> 00:29:51 quote, uh, from one of the investigators.
00:29:52 --> 00:29:54 Usually people use quasars,
00:29:55 --> 00:29:58 uh, for this purpose of time
00:29:58 --> 00:30:00 delay, uh, since they
00:30:00 --> 00:30:03 naturally vary, uh, very
00:30:03 --> 00:30:06 rapidly as a function of time. But,
00:30:06 --> 00:30:08 uh, uh, her, uh, s.
00:30:09 --> 00:30:11 Uh three is star forming,
00:30:12 --> 00:30:14 raising the prospect of detecting a
00:30:14 --> 00:30:17 supernova, uh, whose light would arrive
00:30:17 --> 00:30:19 at each image at different times, giving the
00:30:19 --> 00:30:21 time delay. And from that you can actually
00:30:22 --> 00:30:24 work out what the Hubble constant is. And the
00:30:24 --> 00:30:27 Hubble constant is still, uh, a topic of
00:30:27 --> 00:30:29 discussion. We've talked about the Hubble
00:30:29 --> 00:30:31 tension several times. This will give us
00:30:31 --> 00:30:33 another way of measuring that, and that will
00:30:33 --> 00:30:34 be very interesting.
00:30:35 --> 00:30:37 Andrew Dunkley: That would indeed be quite exciting. Gee,
00:30:37 --> 00:30:39 we've covered some really interesting stories
00:30:39 --> 00:30:41 today, Fred Watson, haven't we? Just if you'd
00:30:41 --> 00:30:43 like to read more about that particular
00:30:43 --> 00:30:45 Einstein cross story, you can do
00:30:45 --> 00:30:48 it@skyandtelescope.org or you
00:30:48 --> 00:30:51 can read the, uh, full paper which has
00:30:51 --> 00:30:53 been published in the Astrophysical Journal.
00:30:55 --> 00:30:57 Uh, we are just about done, Fred Watson.
00:30:57 --> 00:31:00 Before we finish, I might just direct, uh,
00:31:00 --> 00:31:03 people to the Space Nuts podcast group. This
00:31:03 --> 00:31:05 is a Facebook page that was created
00:31:05 --> 00:31:08 by our audience and has,
00:31:08 --> 00:31:11 uh, quite a few thousand people. Uh,
00:31:11 --> 00:31:14 2.7 is 20, uh, 700
00:31:14 --> 00:31:17 members. It's got now, um, people who
00:31:17 --> 00:31:19 discuss, uh, science and
00:31:19 --> 00:31:22 astronomy together, publish stories that,
00:31:22 --> 00:31:24 uh, they are interested in, um, ask
00:31:24 --> 00:31:27 questions of each other, try to solve all the
00:31:27 --> 00:31:30 mysteries of the universe. Uh, it's a great
00:31:30 --> 00:31:32 little group, so if you'd like to join, it's
00:31:32 --> 00:31:35 Facebook. Uh, um, yes, the Space
00:31:35 --> 00:31:37 Nuts podcast group. That's what you've got to
00:31:37 --> 00:31:39 put in your Facebook search engines. Uh,
00:31:39 --> 00:31:41 Space Nuts page podcast group. There's also
00:31:41 --> 00:31:44 an official Space Nuts Facebook group if you
00:31:44 --> 00:31:45 want to join that as well. I think it's got
00:31:46 --> 00:31:47 around, um, about the same number of members.
00:31:47 --> 00:31:50 Probably all the same people. Very likely,
00:31:50 --> 00:31:52 um, quite a few of them anyway.
00:31:52 --> 00:31:54 Professor Fred Watson: Yes, I'm sure that's right. I am. I'll check
00:31:54 --> 00:31:56 that out. I'm not a big Facebook
00:31:56 --> 00:31:59 user, but once in a while I go online. I have
00:31:59 --> 00:32:02 to first of all find out once again what my
00:32:02 --> 00:32:04 password is because it keeps, seems to keep
00:32:04 --> 00:32:07 getting changed. So, um, I'll get into
00:32:07 --> 00:32:10 Facebook, um, or Face Ache as I call it. It's
00:32:10 --> 00:32:13 what my dad used to call me. Yeah, um,
00:32:13 --> 00:32:15 Facebook. Um, and have a look at SpaceNuts
00:32:15 --> 00:32:17 podcast group and see what they're saying.
00:32:17 --> 00:32:19 Andrew Dunkley: And I've got a shout out to our
00:32:19 --> 00:32:21 administrators who do a great job of keeping
00:32:21 --> 00:32:24 it all in ship shape condition. So thank you,
00:32:24 --> 00:32:26 Paul, thank you Misty, and thank you Steve
00:32:26 --> 00:32:29 and everybody else who's involved. There's a,
00:32:29 --> 00:32:31 there's a few people who look after it for us
00:32:31 --> 00:32:33 voluntarily too, I might say. Um, so,
00:32:33 --> 00:32:36 yeah, excellent, Fred Watson, we're done.
00:32:36 --> 00:32:37 Thank you very, very much.
00:32:37 --> 00:32:39 Professor Fred Watson: Uh, it's a pleasure and good to see you
00:32:39 --> 00:32:41 again, Andrew. And we'll talk again very
00:32:41 --> 00:32:42 soon, I think.
00:32:42 --> 00:32:43 Andrew Dunkley: Very soon, I expect.
00:32:43 --> 00:32:44 Professor Fred Watson: Yes.
00:32:44 --> 00:32:46 Andrew Dunkley: Uh, Professor Fred Watson Watson, astronomer
00:32:46 --> 00:32:47 at large. And thanks to Huw in the studio,
00:32:47 --> 00:32:50 who couldn't be with us today. His, uh, his
00:32:50 --> 00:32:52 dog Einstein was naughty. He's very cross
00:32:52 --> 00:32:53 with Einstein.
00:32:53 --> 00:32:55 Professor Fred Watson: Oh, geez.
00:32:56 --> 00:32:57 Andrew Dunkley: And from me, Andrew Dunkley, thanks for your
00:32:57 --> 00:32:59 company. Catch you on the next episode as
00:32:59 --> 00:33:01 well. Space Nuts. Bye Bye.
00:33:02 --> 00:33:04 Voice Over Guy: You've been listening to the Space Nuts
00:33:04 --> 00:33:07 podcast, available at
00:33:07 --> 00:33:09 Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
00:33:09 --> 00:33:12 iHeartRadio or your favourite podcast
00:33:12 --> 00:33:14 player. You can also stream on
00:33:14 --> 00:33:17 demand at bitesz.com This has been another
00:33:17 --> 00:33:19 quality podcast production from bitesz.com