S27E102: NEOWISE's Final Farewell, Lunar Timekeeping Challenges, and Space Rider's Drop Tests

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: This is Space Time, Series 27, Episode 102, for broadcast on the 23rd of August 2024.

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Coming up on Space Time, farewell to NASA's NEOWISE Space Telescope, why it's so difficult

[00:00:13] [SPEAKER_01]: to tell the time on the Moon, and Europe's Space Rider spacecraft successfully completes

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_01]: its drop tests.

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_01]: All that and more coming up on Space Time.

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Space Time with Stuart Gary.

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_01]: NASA's NEOWISE Infrared Space Telescope has relayed its final data stream to Earth, bringing

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_01]: its historic mission to an end.

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Mission managers at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California then

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_01]: sent a final command to the orbiting spacecraft, instructing it to turn its transmitter off.

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_01]: This concluded more than 10 years of planetary defense by NEOWISE, the Near Earth Object

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Wide Field Infrared Survey Explorer mission, which searched the heavens for asteroids,

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_01]: meteors and comets, including those that could pose a threat to planet Earth.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_01]: NASA Associate Administrator Nicola Fox described NEOWISE's mission as an extraordinary success

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_01]: story to help science better understand our place in the universe by tracking asteroids

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and comets that could be hazardous for us on Earth.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_01]: NASA ended the mission because NEOWISE is about to drop too low into Earth's

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_01]: orbit to provide stable and usable science data.

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_01]: The problem is the recent uptick in solar activity is heating the upper atmosphere of

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_01]: our planet, causing it to expand.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_01]: That creates additional orbital drag on spacecraft and as NEOWISE doesn't have

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_01]: a propulsion system to keep it in orbit, that drag causes orbital decay.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Based on its current rate of descent, NEOWISE is expected to safely burn up in

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Earth's atmosphere later this year.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_01]: During its operational lifetime, the infrared survey telescopes exceeded all scientific

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_01]: not for just one mission, but two, starting with the original WISE, Wide Field Infrared

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Survey Explorer mission.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Managed by JPL, WISE launched in December 2009 with a seven-month mission to scan

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_01]: the entire infrared sky.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_01]: By July 2010, WISE had accomplished this with far greater sensitivity than any previous

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_01]: survey.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And just a few months later, the telescope ran out of the cryogenic coolant that

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_01]: kept heat produced by the spacecraft's instruments from interfering with its

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_01]: infrared observations.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_01]: NASA then extended the mission under the new name NEOWISE until February 2011 to

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_01]: complete a survey of mainboat asteroids between Mars and Jupiter, after which the

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_01]: spacecraft was put into hibernation.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But an analysis of this data showed that although the lack of coolant meant the

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_01]: spacecraft could no longer observe the faintest infrared objects in the universe,

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_01]: it could still make precise observations of asteroids and comets which are

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_01]: generating a strong enough infrared signal after being heated by the sun as they

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_01]: travelled past the Earth.

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So NASA decided to bring the telescope back out of hibernation in 2013 under the

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Near Earth Objects Observation Program.

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Over its extended operational lifetime, NEOWISE has been instrumental in

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_01]: science's quest to map the skies and understand the near-Earth environment.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Its huge number of discoveries have expanded science's knowledge of asteroids

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and comets, but also boosting planetary defence.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_01]: By repeatedly observing the sky from low Earth orbit, NEOWISE created all-sky maps

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_01]: featuring 1.45 million infrared measurements of more than 44,000 solar system objects.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Of the 3,000-plus near-Earth objects it detected, 215 were first spotted by

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_01]: NEOWISE.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_01]: The mission also discovered 25 new comets, including the famed Comet C2020F3

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_01]: NEOWISE that streaked across the night skies of planet Earth in the summer of 2020.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_01]: In addition to leaving behind a treasure trove of science data, the spacecraft has

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_01]: helped inform the development of NASA's first infrared space telescope

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_01]: purpose-built for detecting near-Earth objects, to be known as NeoSurveyor.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Principal Investigator for both NEOWISE and NeoSurveyor, Amy Mainzer from

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_01]: the University of California, says the NEOWISE mission provided a unique

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_01]: long-duration data set of the infrared sky, and that will be used by scientists for

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_01]: decades to come.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And it also helped lay the groundwork for NeoSurveyor, which will seek out some of

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_01]: the hardest to find near-Earth objects, such as dark asteroids and comets that

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_01]: don't reflect much visible light, as well as objects which approach the Earth from

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: the erection of the sun's glare, which makes them hard to see.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Construction of NeoSurveyor is already well underway, with a launch date set

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_01]: for no earlier than 2027.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_01]: This report from NASA TV.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_05]: NeoWise is coming at long last to an end. If you're really lucky, your spacecraft

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_05]: will last far longer than you designed it for. In our case, we are many years now

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_05]: into a six-month mission. So we've been really lucky.

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_04]: The NeoWise mission began with the WISE mission. WISE was a mission, the Wide

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Field Infrared Survey Explorer, to study the astrophysical sky, to look for the

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_04]: brightest galaxies in the universe and the closest and coldest stars in our local

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_04]: solar neighborhood.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And along the way, we happened to be good at seeing asteroids and comets.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_04]: So after the original WISE mission shut down, it was put into hibernation at

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_04]: the beginning of 2011.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And then, in late 2013, we woke it up. And lo and behold, it was doing

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_03]: greats, and it was ready for a new mission, looking for asteroids and

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_03]: comets, particularly those that come close to Earth called Near Earth Objects.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_05]: So we renamed the spacecraft NeoWise in honor of its ability to find and

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_05]: characterize Near Earth Objects.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_04]: We observed over 150,000 objects in the solar system, measuring diameters

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_04]: for all of them, and really helping us expand our database for the

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_04]: physical properties of asteroids and comets.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_05]: On one hand, it was an exploratory science mission, but on the other hand,

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_05]: there's a really practical purpose to it. We'd really like to know how often the

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Earth can get hit by asteroids and comets, and this has helped us

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_05]: understand that.

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_05]: There are so many favorite moments with this project. We've seen all kinds

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_05]: of wonderful things. We've been able to do a lot.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_04]: So the NeoWise mission right now is coming to the end of its life.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_05]: We don't have any onboard propulsion, so we can't change the orbit.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_05]: We can't lift the spacecraft higher away from the Earth.

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_05]: The Earth's atmosphere is gradually dragging the spacecraft in.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_03]: As NeoWise falls into thicker and thicker atmosphere,

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_03]: its behavior changes in ways that make it a little bit harder to operate.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And so it's best if we put it to sleep before it actually re-enters and burns up.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_05]: And pretty soon, it will enter the atmosphere, which means it's going to

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_05]: turn into the thing we've been looking for all this time.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_05]: It's going to become a shooting star, and that'll be the end.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_04]: While even though NeoWise is ending, there's still going to be a future

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_04]: to track in Near Earth Objects because we still haven't found them all.

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_05]: We're also in the process of building a new space telescope.

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_05]: It's called the Near Earth Object Surveyor Mission, and its goal is

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_05]: finding and characterize the objects that can impact the Earth.

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_04]: NeoWise has revolutionized our understanding of the solar system.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_04]: It produced things that help us better understand our place in the universe.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_04]: That we made an important contribution to humanity's understanding of our place.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what I'll hold in my heart.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_05]: NeoWise, thanks for all the great data and all the great times.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_05]: As a scientist, we could not have asked for anything more.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And in that report from NASA TV, we heard from NeoWise Principal Investigator Amy Mainzer,

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_01]: NeoWise Deputy Principal Investigator Joe Massero,

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and NeoWise Lead Operations Engineer Beth Fabian-Sky.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_01]: This is space time.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Still to come! It turns out asking what time it is on the Moon isn't as easy as it sounds.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And Europe's Space Rider project successfully completes its drop tests.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_01]: All that and more still to come on space time.

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Have you ever wondered what time it is on the Moon?

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it turns out that question's a lot more difficult to answer than you'd think.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Scientists are now developing a plan for precise timekeeping

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_01]: both on the lunar surface and in near lunar space.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_01]: For decades, the Moon's subtle gravitational pull has posed a vexing challenge.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Atomic clocks on its surface would tick faster than those on Earth,

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_01]: by about 56 microseconds per day.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_01]: So now researchers at America's National Institute of Standards and Technology

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_01]: have developed a plan for precise timekeeping on the Moon,

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_01]: paving the way for a GPS-like navigation system for lunar exploration.

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_01]: The research published in the Astronomical Journal

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_01]: focuses on defining theoretical framework and mathematical models

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: necessary for creating a lunar coordinate time system.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_01]: The work is crucial for NASA's Artemis program,

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_01]: which aims to establish a sustained human presence on the Moon

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and use that as a stepping stone for eventual manned missions to Mars and beyond.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_01]: GPS on Earth relies heavily on very precise timekeeping.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Every satellite in the GPS constellation carries atomic clocks

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_01]: synchronized to a common time reference.

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_01]: By measuring the time it takes for signals from

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_01]: moddable satellites to reach a receiver,

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_01]: GPS can determine the receiver's exact position and time.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_01]: However, implementing a similar system on the Moon

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and relating it accurately to the Earth system

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_01]: presents unique challenges due to the effects of relativity.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Einstein's relativity theory states that gravity affects the passage of time.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_01]: It's called time dilation.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_01]: In other words, time doesn't flow uniformly for everyone.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_01]: For instance, on the Moon, where gravity is a lot weaker than on Earth,

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_01]: clocks will tick slightly faster.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_01]: In addition, an observer on Earth measures time slightly different

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_01]: to an observer on the Moon due to a number of gravity-related effects,

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_01]: including the Moon's orbit around the Earth and the Earth's orbit around the Sun.

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_01]: These effects will significantly impact precise navigation and communication over time.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_01]: To address this issue,

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_01]: scientists have created a system to establish and implement lunar time

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_01]: that accounts for the Moon's unique gravitational environment.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_01]: The system will establish a new master moon time

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_01]: that serves as a timekeeping reference,

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_01]: specifically for the entire lunar surface,

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_01]: similar to how Greenwich Mean Time,

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_01]: that is Coordinated Universal Time or UTC, functions here on Earth.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_01]: In other words, it's like having the entire Moon synchronized to one time zone,

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_01]: adjusted for the Moon's gravity,

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_01]: rather than having clocks gradually drift out of sync with the Earth's time.

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_01]: National Institute of Standards physicist Neil Ashby says

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_01]: it lays the foundation for adopting a navigation and timing system

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_01]: similar to GPS,

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_01]: which could serve near-Earth and Earth-bound users for lunar exploration.

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_01]: The proposal would be the first step in the development of a lunar positioning system.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: That would include a highly precise network of clocks

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_01]: at specific locations on the Moon's surface and in lunar orbit.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_01]: These precise atomic clocks in lunar orbit

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_01]: would function as the satellites of the lunar GPS network,

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: providing accurate timing signals for navigation.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Precise navigation positioning on the Moon

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_01]: would lead to more accurate landings

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and more efficient exploration for lunar resources.

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_01]: See, without a lunar GPS, landing and operating on the Moon

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_01]: would be like trying to navigate on Earth without a global positioning system.

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You'd only have a rough idea of your location,

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_01]: making it extremely difficult to carry out complex operations

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_01]: or travel long distances accurately.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_01]: This is Space Time.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Over the last four months,

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_01]: the European Space Agency's new Reusable Space Rider test article

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_01]: has been undertaking a series of drop tests

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_01]: above the Italian island of Sardinia.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_01]: The tests, using a full-scale model of the wedge-shaped lifting body design,

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_01]: were aimed to validate the deployment of the spacecraft's parachutes.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_01]: The Space Rider spacecraft is about the size of a couple of SUVs.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_01]: It consists of two segments, an orbital module providing essential in-flight support

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_01]: and a reentry module that carries out in-orbit experiments

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_01]: and returns those experiments to the ground.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_01]: ESA scientists and engineers have been undertaking weight distribution tests

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: monitoring how the actual 3,000 kilogram reentry vehicle

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_01]: is likely to behave during regular operations.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_01]: The tests have been looking at evaluating the parachutes,

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_01]: the parafoil and the various control winches

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_01]: that will ensure an automated soft landing.

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Dropped from an altitude of around three and a half kilometers,

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_01]: sets of drogue chutes are first deployed.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_01]: That decelerates the test article to an appropriate speed

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_01]: for the extraction of the parafoil.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_01]: The 27 by 10 meter parafoil is remotely controlled by ground crew

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_01]: to test its aerodynamic performance.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_01]: When all goes well, the vehicle lands safely and gently,

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_01]: descending at a rate of just 12 kilometers per hour.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_01]: In a few months time, further tests will evaluate the flight control algorithm

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_01]: that's designed to autonomously guide the spacecraft to a designated landing point.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_01]: These tests will eventually certify the entire mission profile

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_01]: from orbital flight deployment to Earth EDL, entry, descent and landing.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Following the completion of these test campaigns,

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_01]: ESA will then commence manufacturing actual flight models.

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Needless to say, we'll keep you informed.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_01]: This is Space Time.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And time now to take another brief look at some of the other stories

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_01]: making news in science this week with a science report.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_01]: A new study has shown that droughts, heatwaves, fires and fertilizers

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_01]: can all stress our soils causing them to store less carbon.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_01]: The findings reported in the journal Nature Climate Change

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_01]: suggest that the more stresses soils are exposed to

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_01]: the less carbon they can store.

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_01]: The research found that soil carbon stocks in harsher climate conditions

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_01]: such as those across much of Australia may be highly vulnerable to these stresses

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_01]: and may therefore be more likely to rapidly lose stored carbon

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_01]: back into the atmosphere which would then impact climate change.

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_01]: A new study has found a link between heavy cannabis use

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and an increased risk of head and neck cancers.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_01]: A report in the Journal of the American Medical Association

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_01]: looked at data for more than 4 million people,

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_01]: 116,076 of whom had a diagnosed cannabis-related disorder

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_01]: defined as excessive use of the drug leading to social problems

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_01]: or struggles to hold down a job.

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_01]: They found that heavy cannabis users had an increased risk

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_01]: of all types of head and neck cancers

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_01]: as well as oral, nasal, salivary gland and larynx cancers

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_01]: compared to a group of similar people who were non-cannabis users.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_01]: However this type of study can't prove that cannabis

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_01]: is actually causing an increased cancer risk, just that there's a link.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And the authors say heavy tobacco and alcohol use among cannabis users

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_01]: may also have influenced the results.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_01]: But as cannabis becomes more acceptable in many parts of the world

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_01]: the authors are stressing the need to investigate the links more thoroughly.

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_01]: As with all computer programs, new research has confirmed

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_01]: that when it comes to artificial intelligence

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_01]: it's still a case of garbage in, garbage out.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Meaning if you employ trashy programmers

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_01]: you'll wind up with trashy AI.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Now scientists have investigated the political biases

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_01]: of state-of-the-art AI chatbots

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and shown that fine-tuning can influence their political preferences.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_01]: A report in the journal PLOS One has examined a study

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_01]: in which 11 political tests were used on 24 conversational chatbots

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_01]: including OpenAI's ChatGPT4 and Twitter's Gronk

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_01]: mostly returning leftist results.

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_01]: They found that using targeted political material

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_01]: to fine-tune large language models

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_01]: the authors were able to create chatbots

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_01]: whose responses consistently returned right, left or centralist scores.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Time now for what must be our silliest story of the week.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And it seems paranormal practitioners are now claiming

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_01]: a portal has opened up in the spooky forest in Staffordshire

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_01]: allowing werewolves and other supernatural entities to enter our world.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Reports of a creepy black-eyed child haunting the woods

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_01]: first began circulating in the 1980s.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Some believe it's the spirit of a murdered girl

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_01]: while others think it could be a demon or alien entity.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Tim Mendham from Australian Skeptics says

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_01]: true believers are claiming the woods are haunted

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_01]: with numerous spirits of the dead

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_01]: including werewolves, ghosts, demons and monsters.

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Apparently in Canock Chase

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_02]: which is a quote spooky English forest in Staffordshire

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a portal and this portal is responsible for possibly allowing

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_02]: werewolves, giant beasts, ghosts and the infamous black-eyed child to enter our world.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_00]: What's the difference between a werewolf and a wolf man?

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah I wonder that too.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Are werewolves always wolves or are they nasty wolves

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_02]: or do they transform human beings?

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Probably not a lot.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Someone will actually let me know now.

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_00]: You know someone will...

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I wish they would tell you the difference between

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I've seen images of old etchings and things

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_02]: of werewolves cleaning up against the wall

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_02]: almost like they're having cigarettes

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_02]: waiting for the transformation.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Wolf men tend to be individuals.

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Well there's a long history of dogs and wolves

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_00]: you've got to understand this.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes there is.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway this portal is supposed to be there

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and lo and behold this person who's promoting this

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_02]: has a new book out called Werewolves and Dog Men in the UK

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_02]: and he also believes it is entirely possible

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02]: that something exceptionally big is coming.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't say what.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Is it a giant wolf?

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Is it a giant black-eyed child?

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Is it a giant phantom hitchhiker?

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: What is that?

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Claim after claim after claim after claim.

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Other people are saying there's actually portals within London

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_02]: in certain areas.

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Portals is a nice thing.

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Little circle that opens up.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_00]: It's called the tube isn't it?

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Is it true?

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Are people claiming it?

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Will we find out?

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Probably not.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_02]: But it'd be interesting to see how it develops.

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_01]: That's Tim Mindum from Australian Skeptics

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