S27E129: Martian Volcanic Discovery, Exomoon's Volcanic Cloud, and Solar Maximum's Impact

[00:00:00] This is SpaceTime Series 27 Episode 129, for broadcast on the 25th of October 2024.

[00:00:07] Coming up on SpaceTime, the first evidence of a volcanic splatter cone on Mars, a distant exoplanet that may host a volcanic moon similar to Jupiter's Io,

[00:00:18] and a new study suggests the Sun may now be reaching the maximum period of space weather events, at least during the current solar cycle.

[00:00:26] All that and more coming up on SpaceTime.

[00:00:30] Welcome to SpaceTime with Stuart Gary.

[00:00:50] Scientists have detected what appears to be the first ever evidence of a volcanic splatter cone on the red planet Mars.

[00:00:57] One of the study's authors, Ian Flynn from the University of Idaho, says the cone appears to be similar to ones found here on Earth.

[00:01:04] Flynn identified the cone while studying an extinct Martian volcanic vent.

[00:01:08] He then undertook a detailed morphological investigation and ballistic modelling of the feature, and that supported his conclusion.

[00:01:16] Flynn says splatter cones are common on Earth, and it would be extremely unlikely that they didn't also exist on Mars.

[00:01:22] Now, since splatter cones can only form under the right conditions, their presence gives scientists a benchmark to shoot for when simulating Martian volcanoes.

[00:01:32] Splatter cones are created by hot lumps of flying lava falling onto the surface during an explosive volcanic eruption, especially during sustained periods of lava fountaining.

[00:01:41] Flynn says they're found in many places on Earth, including Iceland and the craters of the Moon National Monument and Preserve in Idaho.

[00:01:49] However, until now, there's never been any solid evidence for their existence on the red planet.

[00:01:55] Flynn says the similarity between the Martian and Icelandic splatter cones indicates that the eruption dynamics occurring in Iceland also occur on Mars.

[00:02:04] He says it expands the range of volcanic eruption styles possible on the red planet.

[00:02:09] This discovery can provide clues about how volcanic eruptions happen on Mars,

[00:02:14] specifically regarding the gases in the magma and the environmental conditions at the time the eruption occurred.

[00:02:20] It's also further confirmation that Icelandic and Indian volcanoes are erupting now

[00:02:26] in the same way volcanoes erupted millions of years ago on the red planet.

[00:02:30] Flynn says the discovery also fills a distinct observational gap in Martian volcanology,

[00:02:36] and it lays the groundwork for future investigations of splatter cone features on the red planet.

[00:02:41] Mars, of course, is also home to Olympus Mons.

[00:02:45] That's the largest volcano in our solar system.

[00:02:48] Olympus Mons is a gigantic shield volcano over 21.9 km or 72,000 feet high.

[00:02:55] That's about two and a half times the elevation of Mount Everest above sea level.

[00:03:00] It's associated with the Tharsis Monty's volcanic region of Mars.

[00:03:04] Olympus Mons is the youngest of the large volcanoes on the red planet,

[00:03:08] having last erupted an estimated 25 million years ago.

[00:03:13] This is space-time.

[00:03:15] Still to come, a distant exoplanet that may also host a volcanic moon just like Jupiter's Io,

[00:03:21] and a new study suggests the Sun may now be reaching the maximum period of space weather events,

[00:03:27] at least during the current solar cycle.

[00:03:29] All that and more still to come on space-time.

[00:03:46] A new study has revealed possible signs of a rocky volcanic moon orbiting an exoplanet some 635 light-years away.

[00:03:55] An exoplanet is a planet orbiting a star other than the Sun.

[00:03:59] The biggest clue for this potential discovery is a sodium cloud that is close to,

[00:04:04] but slightly out of sync with the exoplanet it's orbiting.

[00:04:07] That exoplanet is a Saturn-sized gas giant named WASP-49b.

[00:04:12] Within our solar system, gas emissions from Jupiter's volcanic moon Io create a very similar phenomenon.

[00:04:19] Although astronomers are yet to discover a so-called exomoon,

[00:04:22] that is a moon orbiting a planet outside our solar system,

[00:04:25] multiple candidates have been identified.

[00:04:28] It's likely that these planetary companions have gone undetected

[00:04:31] because they're too small and dim for current telescopes to detect.

[00:04:35] The sodium cloud around WASP-49b was first detected back in 2017,

[00:04:40] catching the attention of Avora Osa from Caltech.

[00:04:43] Osa has spent years investigating how exomoons could be detected by their volcanic activity.

[00:04:49] For example, Io, the most volcanic body in our solar system,

[00:04:52] is constantly spewing sulfur dioxide, sodium, potassium and other gases

[00:04:56] that can form vast clouds around Jupiter up to a thousand times the gas giant's radius.

[00:05:02] It's possible that astronomers looking at other star systems could detect a similar gas cloud like Io's,

[00:05:08] even if the moon itself is too small to see.

[00:05:11] Both WASP-49b and its host star are composed mostly of hydrogen and helium,

[00:05:16] with trace amounts of sodium.

[00:05:17] But neither contains enough sodium to account for this cloud,

[00:05:21] which appears to be coming from a source that's producing roughly 100,000 kilograms of sodium every second.

[00:05:26] Even if the star or planet could produce that much sodium,

[00:05:30] it's unclear what sort of mechanism could eject that into space.

[00:05:34] So Osa and colleagues set it to try and determine if the likely source is a volcanic exomoon.

[00:05:39] The work proved challenging because of the great distance to this system.

[00:05:43] Also, the star, planet and cloud often overlap, occupying the same tiny faraway point in space.

[00:05:49] That meant the authors had to watch the system for quite a long time.

[00:05:54] Their findings, reported in the astrophysical journal Letters,

[00:05:57] found several pieces of evidence suggesting that this cloud was created by a separate body orbiting the planet,

[00:06:03] although additional research will be needed to confirm the cloud's behaviour.

[00:06:07] For example, twice their observations indicated the cloud suddenly increased in size,

[00:06:12] as if it was being refilled when it wasn't next to the planet.

[00:06:15] They also observed the cloud moving faster than the planet in a way that would seem impossible,

[00:06:19] unless it was being generated by another body moving independent of and faster than the planet.

[00:06:25] And Osa thinks this is a really crucial piece of evidence.

[00:06:29] Also, the cloud appears to be moving in the opposite direction,

[00:06:32] which physics tells us it should be going if it were part of the planet's atmosphere.

[00:06:37] Now, while these observations have all intrigued the research team,

[00:06:40] they would still need to observe the system for far longer to be sure of the cloud's true orbit and structure.

[00:06:46] For part of their sleuthing, the authors used the European Southern Observatory's VLT,

[00:06:51] or Very Large Telescope in Chile.

[00:06:53] They eventually established that the cloud's located high above the planet's atmosphere,

[00:06:58] much like the cloud of gas I.O. produces around Jupiter.

[00:07:01] And they also used computer models to illustrate the exomoon scenario

[00:07:05] and then compared that with the data they have.

[00:07:07] The exoplanet WASP-49b orbits its host star every 2.8 Earth days with clock-like regularity.

[00:07:14] But the cloud appeared and disappeared behind the star, or behind the planet,

[00:07:19] at seemingly irregular intervals.

[00:07:21] Now, using their model, the authors showed that a moon with about an 8-hour orbit around the planet

[00:07:26] could explain the cloud's motion and activity,

[00:07:29] including the way it sometimes seemed to move in front of the planet

[00:07:32] and didn't seem to be associated with a particular region of the planet.

[00:07:35] All in all, the evidence is really compelling that something other than the planet or the star

[00:07:40] are producing this cloud.

[00:07:42] We know IOS volcanoes are driven by Jupiter's gravity,

[00:07:45] which squeezes the moon as it gets closer to the planet

[00:07:48] then reduces its grip as the moon moves away.

[00:07:51] This constant flexing, in and out,

[00:07:54] reduces friction in the tiny moon's interior,

[00:07:56] leading to a process called gravitational tidal volcanism.

[00:08:00] If WASP-49b has a moon similar in size to the Earth's,

[00:08:04] Ozer and colleagues estimate that the rapid loss of mass

[00:08:07] combined with the squeezing from the planet's gravity

[00:08:09] would eventually cause this little moon to disintegrate.

[00:08:12] He says if there really is a moon there,

[00:08:14] it's destined to have a very destructive ending.

[00:08:17] This report from NASA TV.

[00:08:21] A rocky, volcanic moon could be orbiting a planet more than 600 light-years from Earth.

[00:08:28] Exomoons, or moons around planets outside our solar system,

[00:08:32] are likely too small to see directly.

[00:08:35] But astronomers think volcanic exomoons could make themselves known

[00:08:40] by creating massive clouds of volcanic gas.

[00:08:43] A new study looked at a large sodium cloud discovered in 2017

[00:08:49] near the exoplanet WASP-49b.

[00:08:53] Scientists found evidence that the cloud is not produced by the planet

[00:08:56] or the star it orbits.

[00:08:58] Instead, the motion of the cloud suggests it originated from another object,

[00:09:04] possibly a volcanic exomoon.

[00:09:07] To get to this conclusion, researchers used a telescope on Earth

[00:09:11] to observe the silhouettes of the cloud and the exoplanet

[00:09:14] as they passed in front of the star.

[00:09:18] In one observation, the researchers saw the sodium cloud

[00:09:22] moving faster than the planet and away from Earth.

[00:09:25] If the cloud was coming from the exoplanet,

[00:09:29] the scientists would expect it to move toward Earth.

[00:09:32] They think this means the cloud was coming from a different source,

[00:09:36] like an exomoon.

[00:09:38] Jupiter's moon Io also spews a volcanic cloud into space.

[00:09:43] It pumps sodium, sulfur and other gases,

[00:09:46] creating a massive cloud a thousand times wider than Jupiter.

[00:09:50] Io has volcanoes because Jupiter's gravity squeezes the moon's interior, heating it.

[00:09:56] Scientists think WASP-49b's gravitational squeezing is likely even more intense

[00:10:02] and may eventually cause its exomoon to disintegrate.

[00:10:06] While more observations are needed to confirm the existence of this exomoon,

[00:10:11] what researchers have found is promising.

[00:10:16] This is space-time.

[00:10:18] Still to come, scientists say the Sun could be reaching the maximum period of space weather events

[00:10:23] as it reaches solar max for solar cycle 25.

[00:10:26] And later in the science report, a new study has found the rise in human life expectancy

[00:10:32] is slowing down dramatically.

[00:10:35] All that and more still to come on Space Time.

[00:10:53] Representatives from NASA, the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration, NOAA,

[00:10:57] together with the International Solar Cycle Prediction Panel,

[00:11:00] have announced that the Sun has now reached its solar maximum period,

[00:11:04] which could continue for the next year or so.

[00:11:06] The Sun's 11-year solar cycle is a natural geomagnetic cycle

[00:11:10] during which the Sun transitions between low and high magnetic activity.

[00:11:15] At the height of the solar cycle, known as solar maximum or solar max for short,

[00:11:19] the Sun's magnetic poles will flip, reversing polarity.

[00:11:23] So the Sun's north pole becomes south and the Sun's south pole north.

[00:11:26] NASA and NOAA track sunspots to determine and predict the progress of the solar cycle,

[00:11:32] and ultimately solar activity based on sunspots.

[00:11:35] Sunspots are cooler and consequently darker regions on the Sun's surface,

[00:11:39] caused by a concentration of magnetic field lines breaking through the surface

[00:11:43] and extending out into space from deep below.

[00:11:47] Sunspots are the visible component of active regions,

[00:11:50] areas of intense and complex magnetic fields on the Sun that are the source of solar flares

[00:11:55] and coronal mass ejections.

[00:11:57] Solar flares are blasts of energy out from the surface,

[00:12:01] caused when magnetic field lines snap.

[00:12:03] If these explosions are powerful enough,

[00:12:06] they can fling solar material and magnetic field out into space with them.

[00:12:10] That's a coronal mass ejection.

[00:12:12] During solar maximum, the number of sunspots

[00:12:15] and therefore the amount of solar activity increases.

[00:12:18] NASA's Director of Space Weather, Jamie Favors,

[00:12:21] says the increase in activity provides an exciting opportunity

[00:12:24] to learn more about our nearest star.

[00:12:26] But it also causes real effects on Earth and throughout our solar system.

[00:12:31] The solar activity strongly influences conditions in space known as space weather.

[00:12:36] This can affect satellites and astronauts,

[00:12:38] as well as communications and navigation systems,

[00:12:41] and even power grids on the ground.

[00:12:43] When the Sun is most active,

[00:12:45] space weather events become more frequent and more violent.

[00:12:49] And we've seen that in recent months,

[00:12:51] the solar activity leading to increased auroral visibility,

[00:12:54] as well as impacts on satellites and infrastructure.

[00:12:57] During May,

[00:12:58] a barrage of large solar flares and coronal mass ejections

[00:13:01] launched clouds of charged particles in magnetic fields towards the Earth.

[00:13:06] That created the strongest geomagnetic storm in two decades,

[00:13:09] and possibly among the strongest displays of auroral activity on record in the last 500 years.

[00:13:14] And of course, another strong solar event hit the Earth earlier this month,

[00:13:19] an X9.1-class solar flare on October 3rd.

[00:13:23] It was the most powerful blast in the current solar cycle so far.

[00:13:27] An X-class donates the most intense solar flares,

[00:13:31] while the number provides more information about its strength.

[00:13:34] Scientists anticipate that the maximum phase of the current solar cycle

[00:13:37] will last probably another year or so.

[00:13:39] And then the Sun will enter its declining phase,

[00:13:43] which will lead back to the next solar minimum.

[00:13:45] The current cycle, classified as Solar Cycle 25,

[00:13:48] began at Solar Minimum in late 2019.

[00:13:51] That means we shouldn't expect the next solar minimum until 2030.

[00:13:56] Solar cycles have been tracked by astronomers

[00:13:58] since Galileo first observed sunspots in the 1600s.

[00:14:01] But they're not all the same.

[00:14:03] Each solar cycle is just a little bit different.

[00:14:06] Some peak for longer periods,

[00:14:07] others for shorter amounts of time,

[00:14:09] and others of smaller peaks that last longer.

[00:14:12] The last solar cycle was considered fairly mild,

[00:14:15] but the current solar cycle is showing far higher levels of sunspot activity.

[00:14:19] NOAA anticipates additional solar and geomagnetic storms

[00:14:22] during the current solar maximum period.

[00:14:25] And that will lead to opportunities to spot more auroral activity

[00:14:29] over the next few months,

[00:14:30] as well as the potential for technology impacts.

[00:14:34] Interestingly, though less frequent,

[00:14:35] scientists often see a significant level of storm activity

[00:14:39] during the declining phase of the solar cycle.

[00:14:42] That will be something they'll be looking out for this time around as well.

[00:14:45] Of course, one of the big advantages now,

[00:14:47] compared to the last solar cycle,

[00:14:49] is NASA's Parker Solar Probe mission,

[00:14:51] which is exploring the sun and its activity.

[00:14:54] In December,

[00:14:55] Parker will make its closest ever approach to the sun's surface.

[00:14:58] In fact, the spacecraft will swoop down to just 6.1 million kilometers above the visible surface of the sun.

[00:15:05] That'll be the closest any man-made object has been to the sun.

[00:15:08] And it doesn't end there.

[00:15:11] Because of the sun's immense gravity,

[00:15:12] the spacecraft will be moving at over 692,000 kilometers an hour.

[00:15:17] That'll make the Parker Solar Probe the fastest man-made object ever flown.

[00:15:21] The December flyby will be the first of three planned close approaches by Parker at this distance.

[00:15:28] And that will help scientists better understand solar weather at its source.

[00:15:32] NASA's also launching several other missions over the next year or so

[00:15:35] that will further help scientists better understand space weather as it impacts across the solar system.

[00:15:41] These are important,

[00:15:42] because space weather predictions are critical for supporting spacecraft and astronauts,

[00:15:47] including NASA's Artemis campaign.

[00:15:49] Remember, Artemis astronauts will be flying to the moon.

[00:15:52] That's all beyond the protective shield offered by Earth's magnetosphere.

[00:15:56] So, surveying the space environment will be a vital part of understanding

[00:16:00] and mitigating astronauts' exposure to space radiation.

[00:16:04] This report from NASA TV.

[00:16:07] Roughly every 11 years, the sun's magnetic field completely flips.

[00:16:11] This means the sun's north and south magnetic poles switch places.

[00:16:16] Around the time of this flip, solar activity gradually ramps up.

[00:16:21] The sun will have more sunspots and solar eruptions, like solar flares and coronal mass ejections.

[00:16:28] The peak of this activity is known as solar maximum.

[00:16:32] Solar maximum marks the halfway point of the solar cycle

[00:16:35] and usually means a year or two of high solar activity.

[00:16:39] During this time, we might see more severe geomagnetic storms at Earth,

[00:16:44] which trigger Aurora, but also threaten our communications, satellites and power grids.

[00:16:50] NASA scientists continue to study the solar cycle so we can better understand solar activity

[00:16:56] to protect our technology in space and on Earth.

[00:16:59] This is Space Time.

[00:17:16] And time now to take another brief look at some of the other stories

[00:17:19] making news in science this week with the Science Report.

[00:17:23] A new study has found that the rise in human life expectancy is slowing down.

[00:17:28] A report of the journal Nature analyzed data from 10 high-income nations,

[00:17:32] including Australia and seven other countries with the longest-lived populations.

[00:17:37] They found that the rate of increase has slowed down since the 20th century.

[00:17:42] The authors conclude that unless biological aging can be markedly slowed,

[00:17:46] survival to the age of 100 is unlikely to ever exceed 15% for females and just 5% for males.

[00:17:53] They believe that humanity's battle for long life may well have largely been accomplished.

[00:17:59] And they describe this as a celebration of advances in public health and medicine

[00:18:03] that saw life expectancy increase by around 30 years during the 20th century.

[00:18:09] A new study has found that even low-risk alcohol drinking causes higher mortality in adults over the age of 60

[00:18:16] with health-related or socioeconomic risk factors.

[00:18:19] A report in the Journal of the American Medical Association looked at over 135,000 UK adults over the age of 60

[00:18:27] described as occasional to high-risk drinkers based on their daily alcohol intake.

[00:18:31] They also examined possible links between deaths, drinking and health or socioeconomic risks.

[00:18:37] They found that moderate to high-risk drinking was associated with more deaths overall,

[00:18:42] but low or moderate-risk drinking was also linked to increased death rates,

[00:18:46] especially cancer deaths in adults scoring higher for frailty or deprivation.

[00:18:51] Interestingly, this increase did not affect those who preferred wine or drank only with meals.

[00:18:56] However, the authors caution that this still requires further investigation.

[00:19:02] A new study warns that thawing permafrost may be accelerating Arctic riverbank erosion.

[00:19:08] A report in the Journal Nature analyzed the Koyukuk River in Alaska

[00:19:12] using a novel computational method that allowed the researchers to study the river

[00:19:16] in a finer resolution than possible with traditional satellite imagery.

[00:19:20] They found that permafrost reduced erosion in the river banks by 47%

[00:19:25] compared to scenarios in which no permafrost was present.

[00:19:28] They also showed that permafrost thaw may lead to a 30-100% increase in river migration rates across the Arctic.

[00:19:36] However, they say it's still uncertain how mechanisms such as increased vegetation

[00:19:40] in the wake of thawing permafrost may or may not strengthen river banks from erosion.

[00:19:47] Well, one of the biggest topics on the Australian political agenda at the moment

[00:19:50] is the Labor Government's Misinformation-Disinformation Internet Sensor Bill.

[00:19:55] If passed, this legislation would allow the government to determine what qualifies as truth

[00:20:00] and what must be blocked for the public good.

[00:20:03] Importantly, this same legislation would exempt politicians and selected journalists from these laws.

[00:20:09] So, the real question for Australians is can politicians and bureaucrats be trusted

[00:20:15] or is this more likely to result in a sort of Orwellian ministry of truth?

[00:20:21] After all, these are the same politicians and faceless bureaucrats on both sides of the aisle

[00:20:26] responsible for the Medicare scare campaign,

[00:20:28] claims that you're likely to get COVID from pizza boxes,

[00:20:31] arresting a pregnant woman for promoting an anti-lockdown rally

[00:20:35] while at the same time supporting BLM marches,

[00:20:37] forcing social media companies to censor and pull down thousands of posts

[00:20:41] criticizing government, including humorous memes.

[00:20:45] Then there are the classics, like promotion of the Russia-Russia-Russia collusion hoax

[00:20:49] and false claims that the Hunter Biden laptop was disinformation

[00:20:52] when in fact it was real.

[00:20:54] And of course the list goes on.

[00:20:56] Those opposing the new legislation say people should basically be able to say what they want

[00:21:00] as long as it doesn't cause harm or encourage and promote violence.

[00:21:04] And they should be treated as publishers,

[00:21:06] responsible for everything they say and write under existing laws of libel,

[00:21:11] slander and defamation, such as rule publishers.

[00:21:14] Tim Mendham says while Australian sceptics don't have a position on the legislation itself,

[00:21:18] their views on the freedom of speech are clear.

[00:21:21] It's obviously a pretty important issue.

[00:21:22] It's something that people raise all the time as their freedom of speech.

[00:21:26] It's a vexed issue and people keep referring to earlier references and things,

[00:21:30] some to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights,

[00:21:33] some to the US Constitution, which is strange in Australia because it doesn't apply,

[00:21:37] some to the Magna Carta, etc.

[00:21:38] What we're talking about here is people's right to state their point of view.

[00:21:43] And there is generally agreed that you do have the right to state your point of view,

[00:21:47] some people regardless of how obnoxious your point of view is.

[00:21:50] But then the other issue is about lying,

[00:21:53] misinformation and disinformation.

[00:21:54] Misinformation is things that are wrong.

[00:21:56] Disinformation is consciously stating things that are wrong.

[00:22:00] So you're disinforming people.

[00:22:01] And this often happens with people who are making claims,

[00:22:04] say about the anti-vax movement.

[00:22:05] They will make lots of claims that they will say are true, but are lies.

[00:22:08] I won't even say mistakes. Let's call them lies.

[00:22:11] And the question then is, should you have freedom of speech to say lies?

[00:22:14] And most people would say no.

[00:22:16] It's fine to express your opinion.

[00:22:18] I don't like you, blah, blah, blah.

[00:22:19] But you can't say I don't like you because you do this

[00:22:22] or because you are this sort of person, which may be a lie.

[00:22:25] So as soon as you say you have to stop saying that,

[00:22:26] you are impinging on their freedom of speech.

[00:22:28] The thing to keep in mind is,

[00:22:30] sceptics need to keep it in mind as well,

[00:22:32] there is no such thing as an absolute freedom of speech.

[00:22:35] It's a thing which is said and applied.

[00:22:37] It is a nice idea.

[00:22:39] And that's the way it is in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

[00:22:42] came out after the Second World War.

[00:22:44] It's a set of agreements that these principles should apply.

[00:22:47] And people say, yeah, they should apply,

[00:22:48] but they're not legally binding.

[00:22:49] And that's what a lot of people don't understand.

[00:22:51] You may take elements of that and write them into your law,

[00:22:54] and then it does become legally binding.

[00:22:56] But the Declaration of Human Rights is not a legally binding document.

[00:22:59] What is a legally binding document when you agree to it

[00:23:02] is the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights,

[00:23:05] which basically takes the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

[00:23:08] and makes it into the law.

[00:23:09] It's done by the UN, same as the Declaration.

[00:23:11] So the covenant is a different thing.

[00:23:13] It's a lot more legal.

[00:23:14] If you accept the covenant, you accept these things as law.

[00:23:17] And the interesting thing is that the ICCPR, the covenant,

[00:23:21] says specifically regarding, I think it's Article 19 or something

[00:23:25] of the Declaration, that freedom of speech, even though it's a great idea,

[00:23:29] may be subject to certain restrictions.

[00:23:31] And these restrictions are for the respect of the rights

[00:23:33] or reputations of others, which is that I can't lie about you,

[00:23:36] and the protection of national security or public order.

[00:23:39] The old story, you can't yield fire in a crowded theatre.

[00:23:41] And even the US Supreme Court says that the First Amendment of the US Constitution,

[00:23:47] which does say freedom of speech, that is not free everywhere.

[00:23:50] So the whole issue is that there is no such thing as absolute freedom of speech.

[00:23:54] The classic case is John Stuart Mill, the writer who was writing in the 1700s,

[00:23:58] I think he was, had a book called On Liberty,

[00:24:00] and he raises the issue of the harm principle.

[00:24:03] Yes, freedom of speech is important.

[00:24:05] You should have the right to freedom of speech, except when it causes harm.

[00:24:08] So that's basically what the skeptic's point of view is.

[00:24:12] Yes, you can say you disagree with vaccination, fine.

[00:24:15] You can say I believe in a Loch Ness monster, fine.

[00:24:17] But when you start lying about it, and especially when those lies cause harm,

[00:24:21] like when you say the measles, bumps, rubella,

[00:24:24] the vaccination causes autism when it doesn't,

[00:24:26] and that causes harm to people because it scares them off vaccination

[00:24:28] and that sort of stuff, it's wrong and you can't say it.

[00:24:31] This all relates to the internet and social media.

[00:24:34] What about simply forcing social media to accept the same rules as the rest of society?

[00:24:39] Say, me as a publisher of information, if I say something that's untrue,

[00:24:43] I can be sued for that.

[00:24:45] If I defame somebody, I can be sued for that.

[00:24:47] Shouldn't the same then apply to social media,

[00:24:49] that if you say something on social media that's not,

[00:24:52] if you defame someone, then you should be sued for that?

[00:24:54] Yes, I would agree.

[00:24:56] I mean, the whole trouble was that social media has developed so quickly

[00:24:59] and that the law is so slow to respond that it probably hasn't caught up.

[00:25:03] But yeah, maybe you're publishing things wherever they're published,

[00:25:05] in print, TV, radio or online, the same rules should apply.

[00:25:09] The question is that if someone says something on your website,

[00:25:12] are you as the website owner responsible for what they say?

[00:25:15] Or are you just a carriage service like Telstra?

[00:25:17] That's right.

[00:25:17] Are you just a carriage service?

[00:25:19] But then in the carriage service, you have an obligation to moderate.

[00:25:23] Now that's hard to do, right?

[00:25:25] To moderate everything that's said on your website as comments or whatever,

[00:25:29] but maybe that's the thing you have to do.

[00:25:30] Well, that's what it comes down to, isn't it?

[00:25:32] Is social media like a postal service or a telecommunications company?

[00:25:36] Or is it a publisher like CBS or ABC or what have you?

[00:25:40] That's the question.

[00:25:41] And that's the legal question.

[00:25:42] Certainly, probably the skeptics on principle would suggest that everywhere

[00:25:45] where somebody is making statements and telling lies,

[00:25:47] regardless of where it is, they should be called up about it.

[00:25:50] That's Tim Mendham from Australian Skeptics.

[00:26:08] And that's the show for now.

[00:26:09] Space Time is available every Monday, Wednesday and Friday through Apple Podcasts,

[00:26:14] iTunes, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts, Spotify, Acast, Amazon Music, Bytes.com,

[00:26:22] SoundCloud, YouTube, your favorite podcast download provider and from Space Time with Stuart Gary.com.

[00:26:29] Space Time is also broadcast through the National Science Foundation on Science Zone Radio

[00:26:34] and on both iHeart Radio and TuneIn Radio.

[00:26:37] And you can help to support our show by visiting the Space Time store for a range of promotional merchandising goodies.

[00:26:44] Or by becoming a Space Time patron, which gives you access to triple episode commercial free versions of the show,

[00:26:50] as well as lots of bonus audio content which doesn't go to air, access to our exclusive Facebook group and other rewards.

[00:26:57] Just go to SpaceTimeWithStewartGary.com for full details.

[00:27:02] And if you want more Space Time, please check out our blog where you'll find all the stuff we couldn't fit in the show,

[00:27:07] as well as heaps of images, news stories, loads of videos and things on the web I find interesting or amusing.

[00:27:13] Just go to SpaceTimeWithStewartGary.tumblr.com.

[00:27:17] That's all one word and that's Tumblr without the E.

[00:27:21] You can also follow us through at Stuart Gary on Twitter,

[00:27:24] at Space Time with Stuart Gary on Instagram,

[00:27:27] through our Space Time YouTube channel.

[00:27:29] And on Facebook, just go to Facebook.com forward slash Space Time with Stuart Gary.

[00:27:34] You've been listening to Space Time with Stuart Gary.

[00:27:38] This has been another quality podcast production from Bytes.com.