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00:00:00
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Y'all ready to be history?
00:00:01
Get started.
00:00:01
Welcome.
00:00:02
Hi.
00:00:02
Hi.
00:00:03
Hi.
00:00:03
Hello, everyone.
00:00:05
To the Pro Audio Suite.
00:00:06
These guys are professional, they're motivated.
00:00:08
Thanks to Tribooth, the best vocal booth for
00:00:11
home or on-the-road voice recording, and
00:00:13
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00:00:16
Introducing Robert Marshall from Source Elements and Someone
00:00:20
Audio Post, Chicago.
00:00:21
Darren Robert Robertson from Voodoo Radio Imaging, Sydney.
00:00:24
And tech to the VO stars, George the
00:00:26
Tech Whittam from LA, and me, Andrew Peters,
00:00:29
voiceover talent and home studio guy.
00:00:32
Line up, man.
00:00:33
Here we go.
00:00:34
Sound on me.
00:00:36
And welcome to another Pro Audio Suite.
00:00:38
Thanks to Austrian Audio, making passion heard.
00:00:41
And Tribooth, don't forget the code, T-R
00:00:43
-I-P-A-P 200.
00:00:45
That will get you $200 off your Tribooth.
00:00:48
Time for a bit of a rant, I
00:00:50
think.
00:00:51
Audacity decided to do a bit of an
00:00:52
update, which, well, has caused a few ripples
00:00:56
in the industry, I think.
00:00:57
George.
00:00:58
They always make my, they always clench my
00:01:00
butt cheeks when somebody says Audacity.
00:01:03
The word update makes you nervous, doesn't it,
00:01:05
George?
00:01:06
Yeah.
00:01:06
His date is updated.
00:01:09
Makes him clench.
00:01:10
It's just, yeah, I mean, I don't fully
00:01:13
understand how their new arrangement with the company,
00:01:16
the parent company, I guess, that's called Muse.
00:01:19
Is that right?
00:01:19
M for Mary?
00:01:21
Is that what he's saying?
00:01:22
Yeah, it's called Muse.
00:01:22
Yeah, because they also make a scoring software,
00:01:25
so you can do your, Sage has used
00:01:27
that actually quite a bit.
00:01:28
I'm sure they have good product.
00:01:30
So whatever, I don't know the way new
00:01:34
things are released and rolled out at Audacity,
00:01:36
but they decided it was finally time to
00:01:39
rebuild the compressor and the limiter correctly.
00:01:43
I would probably add to that, actually, because
00:01:45
the prior versions were weird.
00:01:48
They had like the compressor never worked correctly.
00:01:51
Like it has, for example, it has a
00:01:53
checkbox that says make up gain, and you
00:01:55
can turn that on and off.
00:01:57
And it was always on.
00:01:59
Right?
00:01:59
So like, you're like, damn it.
00:02:01
It's always full on, like full zero.
00:02:03
And like it had the limiter.
00:02:05
So you just had to manually turn it
00:02:06
to the right place, because if not, it
00:02:08
was making up.
00:02:09
Yeah.
00:02:09
I would always learn to work with it.
00:02:10
I just, you know, you learn how to
00:02:12
adapt when you have to use certain tools,
00:02:13
you know, but it was always annoying.
00:02:15
So they did a complete redesign of the
00:02:17
compressor.
00:02:18
They also did a complete redesign of the
00:02:19
limiter.
00:02:19
And I have no problem with this whatsoever.
00:02:21
I just have a problem with the fact
00:02:22
that it was a total overwrite of the
00:02:25
prior compressor and limiter.
00:02:28
And so all the poor folks who rely
00:02:31
on just using certain workflows, like a macro,
00:02:34
they call macros in Audacity, to like, say,
00:02:37
master an audio book.
00:02:39
A lot of people use Audacity to record
00:02:41
and master the audio book, and they have
00:02:43
a single click process that's really easy once
00:02:46
it's set up for them.
00:02:47
But then that breaks everything when the compressor
00:02:50
is just renamed.
00:02:52
So the macro code, it's a script.
00:02:54
The macro is really just a simple text
00:02:56
file with a script that says, this is
00:02:58
the plugin and this is the commands.
00:03:00
That's it.
00:03:01
You can do it in Audition as well.
00:03:02
There's a lot of ways to do it,
00:03:03
but the macro script will immediately break if
00:03:06
the compressor has different commands.
00:03:08
If something in there is not working, nothing
00:03:10
works.
00:03:10
Does it crash or does it just fail?
00:03:12
It just gets to that step and goes,
00:03:13
that plugin comes up with an error.
00:03:16
And then it stops.
00:03:17
So it's just a shame that nobody in
00:03:21
the chain of command there was like, you
00:03:23
know, we should just give it a new
00:03:25
name or just call it 2024 or alt
00:03:28
or version 2 would be enough, right?
00:03:31
Exactly.
00:03:32
Anything to differentiate it.
00:03:33
Yeah.
00:03:33
And instead they just did an overwrite.
00:03:35
So it's one of those things where maybe
00:03:37
they'll get the message and they'll change it.
00:03:39
But by the time that the message gets,
00:03:41
once that happens, we'll all have had to
00:03:43
adopt.
00:03:44
Everyone has a workaround.
00:03:45
Exactly.
00:03:45
Well, by now, surely.
00:03:47
Yeah.
00:03:47
So the two workarounds that I can think
00:03:49
of are one, you roll back and there
00:03:51
are legitimate safe places to download the prior
00:03:54
version that you were running.
00:03:56
Because in the prior versions of Audacity, it
00:03:58
was very easy to have multiple versions of
00:04:00
Audacity.
00:04:01
You could just rename and save the old
00:04:03
version, but in the new modern version, it
00:04:05
always overwrites the old version.
00:04:07
So it's a little more tricky now, but
00:04:10
yeah, it's frustrating for users.
00:04:12
You know, I've just, my thing is being
00:04:14
an advocate for the actors and making it
00:04:15
easy for them.
00:04:16
And it just, when something goes easy to
00:04:19
just stop working for no real good reason,
00:04:24
I get frustrated.
00:04:25
It makes you wonder sometimes how in touch
00:04:27
some of these companies are with the way
00:04:29
people are using their products when they do
00:04:30
stuff like this.
00:04:31
That's the first thing that occurs to me
00:04:32
is like, you know, there's how many thousands
00:04:35
of voiceover actors out there who are using
00:04:38
this software?
00:04:39
Because let's be honest, you know, a bit
00:04:41
like Twitch Rewave.
00:04:42
It's a bit of a fake.
00:04:43
What is Muse's business model?
00:04:45
If I may ask?
00:04:46
Who knows?
00:04:47
Who knows?
00:04:47
I mean, I think it's like open source
00:04:49
and like donationware or...
00:04:52
Either way, you're there to serve a customer.
00:04:54
And so surely you want to understand, you
00:04:56
know, how they're using your product.
00:04:58
And I know there's more than just voice
00:05:00
actors using the product, I'm sure.
00:05:02
But surely you would get an understanding of
00:05:04
each group of people.
00:05:04
I think they weren't even voice actors originally.
00:05:08
I think the original story of why they
00:05:11
started it was like, it was just a
00:05:14
player, like someone needed a simple thing.
00:05:15
Oh, that's pretty good for what that is.
00:05:17
Yeah, that'll do the job.
00:05:18
No, I think I've always looked at Audacity
00:05:20
as a geeky app for geeks.
00:05:24
And you know, and it's just, and because
00:05:26
it was always free, there was just certain
00:05:28
users are just going to gravitate to it.
00:05:30
Yeah.
00:05:31
Well, everyone's looking for a free something.
00:05:33
It is interesting because it has a certain
00:05:35
mix of like way too stupid and, and
00:05:38
wow, it has that, like it has spectral
00:05:39
editing in it, right?
00:05:41
Apparently, possibly some of its processing is okay,
00:05:44
I don't know how bad its click removal
00:05:47
is.
00:05:48
Once you, once you, that's what I mean.
00:05:50
It's like there are certain plugins that they
00:05:51
give you for free, which is a really
00:05:53
nice, but they're hopelessly, the parameters are like,
00:05:58
huh?
00:05:59
They're like Reaper-esque.
00:06:01
Yeah.
00:06:01
Or worse.
00:06:02
Or worse.
00:06:02
You know, there's just parameters.
00:06:03
Like the compressor has a noise floor setting.
00:06:07
Anybody know what a noise floor setting does
00:06:09
in a compressor?
00:06:10
If you do, raise your hand.
00:06:11
I can see that being in a gate,
00:06:12
but I can't see that being in a...
00:06:13
Yeah, but it's not, it's, it's in compressor.
00:06:14
I never can understand what that parameter was
00:06:16
for, right?
00:06:17
Those are the things that, you know, got
00:06:19
replaced or, you know, removed in the new
00:06:21
version.
00:06:22
The only thought I had on that was
00:06:23
maybe they were sort of going, is there
00:06:24
noise in the background?
00:06:25
So let's not be too aggressive and suck
00:06:27
that up as well.
00:06:28
That was about the only thing I could
00:06:29
think that that would have worked on.
00:06:31
So it's sort of like an expander in
00:06:32
a way.
00:06:33
It's like a compander.
00:06:34
I don't know.
00:06:35
It didn't, you're right.
00:06:36
It was one of those things.
00:06:37
It looks like it went.
00:06:39
Okay.
00:06:39
Yeah.
00:06:40
Yeah.
00:06:40
I mean, I would stick around on 3
00:06:43
.5.1 or an earlier version.
00:06:45
3.3, 3.3.1, 3.3.3
00:06:48
is really, really good.
00:06:49
3.5.1 is fine.
00:06:50
What's wrong with the new version?
00:06:52
3.6.1 just is when they, 3
00:06:54
.6 is when they rolled out the new
00:06:55
compressor and the limiter.
00:06:56
So if you don't use a macro or
00:06:59
you build it yourself, then you'll probably figure
00:07:01
out how to work around it.
00:07:03
If you do not know what you're doing
00:07:04
and you're on a macro that's been made
00:07:06
by me or one of our friends that
00:07:08
helps you do your mastering for your audio
00:07:10
books or whatever it is, just don't upgrade
00:07:13
yet because there's no real solid argument for
00:07:16
doing it.
00:07:17
Here you go.
00:07:19
Surely they'll get the message and put it
00:07:20
back.
00:07:21
Audacity was started in 1999 by Dominic Mazzoni
00:07:26
while he was a graduate student at Carnegie
00:07:29
Mellon in Pittsburgh.
00:07:31
He was working on a research project with
00:07:33
his advisor, Roger Dannenberg, and they needed a
00:07:37
tool that would let them visualize audio analysis
00:07:39
algorithms.
00:07:41
Yeah.
00:07:41
So it's almost more of a scientific tool.
00:07:43
I wonder why that's where the spectral editing
00:07:45
comes in then.
00:07:46
That's probably always been there then.
00:07:47
I don't know.
00:07:48
Yeah.
00:07:48
Maybe it's been in there forever.
00:07:49
I mean, 1999 would be pretty early for
00:07:51
spectral editing, but although about the time when
00:07:54
it started, like right around the turn...
00:07:56
Would have been talked about back then anyway.
00:07:59
You're right.
00:07:59
Yeah.
00:07:59
I just found on YouTube, The People Behind
00:08:01
Audacity.
00:08:02
So if anybody's wanting to know, look up,
00:08:04
there's a video on YouTube called The Story
00:08:06
Behind Audacity.
00:08:07
There you go.
00:08:08
And it's on musictech.com website, so you
00:08:12
can find it there and learn more about
00:08:14
how Audacity came to light.
00:08:16
I think on the whole, I think Audacity
00:08:19
just gets better and better.
00:08:21
I think it's more reliable.
00:08:22
I think it gets better workflows.
00:08:27
The export module is much better now.
00:08:30
Macro is getting easier.
00:08:32
Now, I mean, for the longest time, there
00:08:33
was no way to import a new macro
00:08:35
or make a copy.
00:08:36
Now you can.
00:08:37
So it's getting better in a lot of
00:08:39
ways.
00:08:41
But it's still one of those things, or
00:08:43
contrasting that to Twisted Wave, Thomas is just
00:08:48
so much more thoughtful about when and how
00:08:52
he pushes out updates and is so careful
00:08:55
to never break any legacy functionality, right?
00:08:59
And that's, and maybe that, I mean, he's
00:09:03
lucky because he's not in a committee.
00:09:05
Yeah.
00:09:06
Yeah, that's true.
00:09:06
You know, so he is completely beholden to
00:09:10
the user.
00:09:12
Well, it's also, Audacity is a, yeah, it's
00:09:14
a paid product, but he's also beholden to
00:09:16
the user in a very direct way.
00:09:20
Whereas Audacity isn't really beholden to the user
00:09:22
at all.
00:09:23
There's, I mean, they're not making any money,
00:09:25
so they're beholden to them.
00:09:28
That's who they're beholden to.
00:09:29
They're beholden to each other and, dude, I've
00:09:31
been wanting to get this new compressor in
00:09:33
here forever.
00:09:33
I finally have it built.
00:09:34
Let's do it.
00:09:35
Yeah, let's do it.
00:09:36
You know, does it work?
00:09:36
It works great.
00:09:37
Okay.
00:09:37
Boom.
00:09:39
Oh, oh, oh, I didn't think about that.
00:09:42
Oh, we're going to break functionality.
00:09:44
Oh, and they're hearing about it for sure.
00:09:47
I mean, there's people that are hearing about
00:09:48
it.
00:09:48
Yes, they should.
00:09:49
So we'll see.
00:09:49
It can't be that hard to put it
00:09:50
back in, right?
00:09:51
Surely.
00:09:52
No, just put it back in and rename
00:09:54
the new one and move on.
00:09:56
I mean, it shouldn't take long.
00:09:56
Make the new one the super compressor or
00:09:58
something, or the compressor's compressor.
00:10:00
The professor's compressor.
00:10:02
The professor's compressor.
00:10:03
There you go.
00:10:03
Even better.
00:10:04
Are you listening, David?
00:10:07
I have not actually used the new one
00:10:09
for sure.
00:10:10
I'll be using it soon enough if someone
00:10:11
asks me to make the new version in
00:10:14
a macro.
00:10:14
But looking at the compressor from the old
00:10:16
version, that was what was so odd, was
00:10:18
just the fact that the noise floor existed
00:10:20
at all was a weird thing.
00:10:22
The fact that the release time's shortest setting
00:10:25
is one second.
00:10:27
It's kind of odd.
00:10:28
That's right.
00:10:28
Yeah, that's weird.
00:10:29
You know?
00:10:30
I looked at that too.
00:10:31
You know, the increments of time for the
00:10:33
release is one tenth of a second, so
00:10:36
you can go from one to one point.
00:10:38
You know, it's just little things like that.
00:10:40
So it was very, very much due for
00:10:43
a replacement.
00:10:44
Just a, not a replacement, a supplement.
00:10:47
An upgrade.
00:10:48
Or an upgrade, or an addition.
00:10:49
Making an addition.
00:10:50
That's all that had to do was just
00:10:51
upgrade it.
00:10:52
Yeah, exactly.
00:10:53
Yeah.
00:10:53
Yeah.
00:10:54
Just changing the subject, as we always do.
00:10:57
That was my goal.
00:10:59
It was to transition.
00:10:59
Where can I push this now?
00:11:02
Now, do we go to another form of
00:11:04
takeaway food, or do we stick to Twisted
00:11:06
Wave?
00:11:07
I did see on a thread on a
00:11:10
Facebook, which by the time this goes out
00:11:12
live, it was probably a couple of weeks
00:11:13
ago, and Jim Edgar chimed in, and Jim,
00:11:17
of course, is a bit of a Twisted
00:11:18
Wave expert.
00:11:19
But there was a question from a talent
00:11:22
who was asked by a client to deliver
00:11:26
her voice file in stereo.
00:11:30
Why?
00:11:32
What on earth would they want that for?
00:11:35
Well, by the way, it's very easy with
00:11:37
Twisted Wave.
00:11:38
In fact, Bo Weaver literally asked Thomas to
00:11:42
add a feature which makes a stereo file
00:11:45
out of a mono file.
00:11:46
It was really weird, though, because I know
00:11:48
Jim said that he had been asked by
00:11:49
clients to do that.
00:11:50
Now, you've just said that Bo Weaver has
00:11:52
also been asked to do that, and wanted
00:11:53
the feature put onto Twisted Wave.
00:11:54
But in all the years I've been doing
00:11:56
this, I've never, not once, been asked to
00:11:59
deliver a file in stereo.
00:12:00
I think as we discussed at the beginning
00:12:01
of the episode, and makes complete sense, is
00:12:04
that with the, what should we say, the
00:12:10
sort of rise of video editors becoming audio
00:12:13
producers as well, that they're- I was
00:12:17
going to say, video editors being forced upon
00:12:19
them.
00:12:19
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry.
00:12:21
No, that's not a reflection on video editors
00:12:23
whatsoever.
00:12:24
But them being expected to step up, I
00:12:26
mean, having said that, I have come across
00:12:28
video editors who are now also calling themselves
00:12:31
sound designers, interestingly.
00:12:33
That makes our skin crawl.
00:12:35
Yeah, but- That'd be like calling me
00:12:37
a color timer, you know, a colorist.
00:12:39
Yeah, but not understanding that, you know, there
00:12:43
is one microphone, one cord, one input, there
00:12:47
is no stereoness to a voice.
00:12:51
Yeah.
00:12:51
Well, there's no stereoness to a voice anyway,
00:12:53
but yeah, so I don't know, that's about
00:12:57
the only thing I can think of.
00:12:58
I mean, I know there's a great show,
00:13:01
we've probably talked about already here, called Tiny
00:13:03
Desk, where they record, they shotgun mic all
00:13:06
the singers and some of the instruments, and
00:13:08
they're all stereo shotgun mics.
00:13:11
And I don't know to this day, I'd
00:13:13
love to, there must be an interview online
00:13:15
someplace of the engineer who's in charge of
00:13:17
all the NPR Tiny Desks.
00:13:19
Either they just happen to have those mics
00:13:21
around, so that's what they use, or there's
00:13:24
some interesting production reason for doing it.
00:13:27
But who knows?
00:13:28
There's just, we don't know, but there could
00:13:30
be a trend in the future that all
00:13:32
voice be recorded in stereo, because they want
00:13:35
to capture the movement of the person around
00:13:37
the mic, and they want, I don't know,
00:13:39
I don't, is this a thing?
00:13:41
I haven't heard of it yet.
00:13:42
I don't know whether it's a thing, but
00:13:44
the thing that comes from that is, if
00:13:45
you're putting a singer with two mics spaced
00:13:49
apart was a thing, and you do it
00:13:52
in stereo, and you give like a 3D
00:13:53
sound to the voice.
00:13:54
But you've got a stereo input, so of
00:13:57
course you want a stereo recording, but we're
00:13:59
talking about voice actors in their home studio
00:14:01
with a shotgun or a large diaphragm mic
00:14:05
in front of them.
00:14:06
Why?
00:14:08
Sure, okay, you can have it, sure, okay,
00:14:10
it makes no difference, but it makes no
00:14:11
sense why you're requesting it.
00:14:13
You know, if you get it, you sort
00:14:14
of go, okay, well, you know, that's cool,
00:14:16
I can deal with it.
00:14:17
There's another reason why it's a little bit,
00:14:19
maybe almost insidious, because when you make a
00:14:24
mono wave file, a stereo wave file, there's
00:14:27
no loss of data, you're creating data, you're
00:14:29
just taking the same data and doubling it,
00:14:31
and then the file gets twice as large,
00:14:33
right?
00:14:34
MP3's not the same thing.
00:14:35
You take an MP3 and double the content
00:14:38
and keep the bitrate the same, you're essentially
00:14:42
halving, you're basically packing twice as much potatoes
00:14:46
into the same bag.
00:14:48
And what happens to those potatoes, they get
00:14:50
smushed and bruised and crushed because you can't
00:14:52
fit them into the same bag.
00:14:54
And that's what happens with stereo, if you're
00:14:56
going to go stereo MP3, you've got to
00:14:58
double the bitrate.
00:14:59
Kind of, I mean, it depends, because it
00:15:01
can have joint stereo encoding or it can
00:15:03
have discrete, and it depends on how you
00:15:05
decide to encode it, because if you have
00:15:07
a stereo file that's really mono, then it'll
00:15:10
make a lot of hay out of that
00:15:12
high bitrate.
00:15:14
On the other hand, if it's highly stereo,
00:15:16
then you're going to get lower quality, because
00:15:18
it has to allocate a lot of the
00:15:19
bitrates to both channels.
00:15:21
Right.
00:15:21
Sorry, what were you saying?
00:15:22
No, it's okay, I was just going to
00:15:23
say, only a video editor would be asking
00:15:27
for their voiceovers in MP3 anyway, so, you
00:15:29
know, I don't know how much...
00:15:32
Or an audio book producer, by the way,
00:15:34
ACX has you deliver your final files in
00:15:37
MP3 to ACX for distribution.
00:15:41
So they're then processing that, or that's finished
00:15:43
books?
00:15:44
That is, that's the final deliverable that you
00:15:47
send in to them, and then they take
00:15:49
that file and they do their own highly
00:15:51
destructive...
00:15:52
Ah, okay, right, so they're still processing after
00:15:54
that, even.
00:15:55
I thought if it was finished, maybe that
00:15:57
made sense.
00:15:57
Go on Audible or any audio book platform
00:16:01
where you can listen to audio book profile,
00:16:03
and listen to the quality that's there, they're
00:16:06
obliterated.
00:16:08
It's for a practical purpose, they want to
00:16:10
fit, you know, a 20 hour book into
00:16:12
less than a gig, you know, so it
00:16:14
doesn't take up an entire phone number.
00:16:15
Why start with MP3 and then massacre it
00:16:18
even more?
00:16:18
It doesn't make any sense, it's like, why?
00:16:21
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know part
00:16:24
of it's practical, they're just like, well, you
00:16:26
know, the quality just didn't seem to make
00:16:28
any damn difference, because once it got destroyed...
00:16:30
Maybe they need to go back to listen
00:16:32
to our episode from a couple of weeks
00:16:34
ago, that's what it is.
00:16:35
Audio quality matters.
00:16:37
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm still lobbying for
00:16:39
a day where there's, you know, audio book
00:16:41
HD or something, you know, where we capture
00:16:44
and produce and release audio books in a
00:16:46
high fidelity format that actually warrants, you know,
00:16:50
good sound.
00:16:51
I would love to listen to that.
00:16:53
Imagine doing an audio book with immersive, in
00:16:56
an immersive format, where you've got sound effects
00:16:58
and stuff, where you actually do get completely
00:17:01
and utterly absorbed into the audio book.
00:17:03
Yeah, well, that's what's tricky, is there's audio
00:17:05
publishing, in fact, we have the APA, which
00:17:12
is the Audio Publishers of America Association, whatever,
00:17:17
and that's its own thing, and they do
00:17:20
not, they don't seem to have a desire
00:17:22
or interest, at least not that I've seen,
00:17:25
to do that.
00:17:26
Whereas podcasting, or things released as a podcast,
00:17:31
or a radio drama style file, that's, yeah,
00:17:35
that stuff's definitely happening.
00:17:37
I mean, I've heard some podcasts produced in
00:17:39
spatial that are amazing, you know, you put
00:17:44
on the AirPod Pros and like, it freaking
00:17:46
tracks your head movement, it's like you're in
00:17:48
the side of a ship, and you move
00:17:49
around, and the thing moves around you, it's
00:17:52
insane, like it's incredible, and all you need
00:17:55
for that is a phone and the AirPods,
00:17:57
you know, so that is a thing, but
00:18:00
it's very niche, it's definitely not mainstream, and
00:18:05
we'll see if it ever happens, but yeah,
00:18:07
so where were we, were we talking about
00:18:09
audacity?
00:18:10
Yeah.
00:18:11
What do you think, Robert?
00:18:17
What do I think I want?
00:18:20
The pizza you just ordered.
00:18:23
The what?
00:18:24
The pizza you just ordered.
00:18:27
I just saw you weren't there, I was
00:18:29
being an arsehole, sorry.
00:18:32
My phone was ringing, I was like, hmm,
00:18:35
hold on, let me mute my mic.
00:18:37
Well that was fun, is it over?
00:18:39
It's over, it's over, it's over, it's over,
00:18:39
it's over, it's over, it's over, it's over,