Do Voice Actors Really Need a Neumann U87?

Are any of history. Welcome the Pro Audio Suite. Those guys a professional and motivated with text. The video stars George Whittam, founder of Source Element, Robert Marshall, International Audio Engineer Darren, Robbo Roberts and Global Voice Andrew Peters. Thanks to Tribo, Austrian Audio Making Passion, her Source Elements, George the Tech Wisdom and Robbo and APIs International Demo. To find out more about us, check the Pro Audio Suite dot com and welcome to another pro audio suite thanks to Austrian Audio Making Passion. Heard talking microphones. I'm going to clear up a few of mine. I've got three that I'm selling if anyone's interested. By the way, freaking by two Geffels. One a M ninety two point one S, which is a tube or valve make depending on which side of the pond you're on. A M nine thirty Geffell, the M nine thirty Arte of only eighty May limited edition to celebrate eighty years of George Neuman and I have a very well used but working perfectly C four one four EB with the nylon capsule. They are going and the reason that going is because I'm looking at animation and what you need for animation as far as microphones are concerned. And we were sort of scanning around looking at our cane last week and I was watching behind the scenes and guess what they were using U eighty seven, eighty seven and yeah, and forty one six is ah, there you go. So they have the U eighty seven close mic, which is probably about a foot anyway, and then another that looked about it a foot and a half maybe a bit long further back, was the forty one six. You and I were talking about this, and I'm interested to know the why and the warforce about that. I wonder whether it's because if they're just recording dialogue, they don't know in the room whether it's going to be sort of a close up shot or a shot further back, and so they've gives then a couple to choose from in terms of perspective, whether they're close up on the mic or not. I don't know, do you know, Robert, I have no idea. It's part of it. It gives you two perspectives, and you don't get the forty one six further back doesn't have such proximity effect. And then seven super warm and that's right kind of you know. More intimate. And also the forty one six is more directional, so you can actually instead of having a cardioid like three feet away picking up everything, at least you can sort of arrow the target a bite. It's very clever, very cool. Anyway, Sorry, I digress. I just wonder about the specific need for eighty seven. You know, well, yeah, it's sort of like the four W it's like the four one six whether it's. Yeah, it's a standard, but in a way, the question is what is it the one O three? Is it? Isn't it? Isn't there one of those it's supposed to be very very U eighty seven like without emptying your pocketbook of all three thousand dollars and the yeah, I thought there's one that's supposed to be eighty seven like and gives you the cardioid ish performed. Three is eighty seven like? Is it? I don't know, I could be wrong. What capsule does the one I three use? Is it? The case? Was it a k K eighty seven is the eighty seven capsule? But that's a dual sighted you know, multi pattern capsule. So with the TL in one I three, obviously it won't be a dual capsule. Well, the other problem is the TLM as transformerless. What about the the U eighty nine. What's the difference between that and the UD? It's a better eighty seven, smaller, quieter. It was the successor to the eighty seven basically, but didn't catch on quite as well as the eighty seven did. It's like eighty seven's is got that cachet, you know, But. That's the thing. Do you reckon the eighty seven thing? The whole thing about eighty seven's is just it became a cliche because I was telling Andrew I recorded a guy a couple of weeks ago on an agency job. It was a remote job, but he told me he was on a U eighty seven, and I can only presume that he was. And I was so underwhelmed by the sound, probably because he's got a partly probably because he's got a great mic in a shit room, yes, but it was so underwhelming. It was still like, oh, okay, if you say you are sure, I think that eighty seven actually buy it off TMU. Yeah, you never know, yeah, exactly. It definitely got the Barty down. I don't know, I think that the eighties seven is technically not the greatest makeout there, but it just has the cachet and the legacy, and it does have a sound that works with a lot of people, but it's not necessarily for everybody. You know. They're certainly darker than a four fourteen, for example. Well the eight one. It takes on the C twelve, which is obviously a bit more top end than a eighty seven. And it depends on the voice too, because I know there was quite a few studios obviously in Australia full of eighty sevens, which I always find slightly odd based on the Australian accent and the tone of an Australian accent which is quite nasally. Yeah, and the one thing that eighty seven's have is that honk honk. Yeah. Well, I mean maybe that's accentuating the Aussi accent. You could say, yeah, but I think an eighty seven might work really well with a lighter female voice. Maybe I'd be interested to hear. I mean, because the reason for this, right is Somerset Andrew's daughter is getting some and hoping to get into some more animation work. Well, the good thing for her is that this is the other thing she's been signed by a big American agent as an American. Yeah, that's right. So as far as the. Work she gets auditions for and expectation expectations to do, the work will be everything will be as an American, which is kind. Of cool when she a Californian, or. She's like, what do you call it? Like if it's you're the standard English, which is like nothing, no one actually talks oh Canadian. Yeah. Well, my point was going to be, though, I'll be interested when you do end up picking up one. I'll be interested to hear. You know, a comparison. This is you know four one six, this is the eight one eight, this is the U eighty seven. I'd be interested to hear. And they also vary so much, because I know of the studio in New York that I used to go to quite a lot was a really old eighty seven. I think it was a nineteen seventies early seventies eighty seven. And they sound quite different too, it's. Going to say they could. Yeah, and especially I mean even just an older capsule in general consound so much different to some through a brand new one. But I think the guts of the early ones are different to the guts of the new ones. Well, there there's the AI and the non AI, which is a significant noise for a difference. That's one thing. And then the really old ones were actually designed if you didn't know it, to run off of a battery as well as phantom power. Oh really, really I didn't know that. Yeah, if you open up the inside of an old eighty seven, there's a socket there to put a battery. I think actually an it might even be a nine volt battery, but I'm not sure. Never actually pull one in, but I'm pretty sure in eighty seven is a transformered microphone. You know, used to have a thing that could be battery or not battery powered. But funny enough from what I'm reading, and I guess the one O three is supposedly the sort of Neuman's intention of being a poor man's cardioid eighty seven. He uses the K one O three capsule, which is a direct derivative of the K eighty seven capsule found in the U eighty seven, except its single sided, which makes sense for cardioidly only the Noyman presence. Like the U eighty seven, it features a presence boost in the upper frequencies, which not as much as a four fourteen, making the vocals sound incredibly direct and clear. And actually the one of three is quieter than the eighty seven by almost successibles though I want and that's the AA. It's quite quieter than the AA. See I would read if I had the choice, if I was recording a female, well, even here, because I've got both mikes, I would always use a one o three over a four one six any day. But do they accept a one of three? I mean, are they saying an eighty seven? No? No, Sorry, I'm just saying for me in general. For Somerset, are they Are they basically saying if you don't have an eighty seven, you're a fire? No? But I do remember when COVID hit and everyone had to scuttle off home and set up their home set studios and stuff like that. A lot of the agents were sending out stuff saying you must have, and one of the mustabs was a U eighty seven, which I always thought was kind of weird based on the fact that most of the environments that people were setting up in was shit. And he's the other thing, right, go and buy a U eighty seven, but we're not going to pay you for your home studio. Yeah, I mean in. Eighty seven's like, what are they? Like three thousand dollars. Would be the US? Yeah, I mean I think they're like close to five five thousand Australian four eight I think, yeah, no more yeah, four no five? Nothing more than that. I think. I can't. I can't think of any situation if someone asked me what microphone should I buy for my home studio, what I would tell them to go and buy U eighty seven, I honestly can't. Well, not here, It's not here in Australia anyway. I think of it more as one of those makes that like you know you need it as a studio owner, You're it's a badge. And I think that there's far more affordable makes that can get you at least. As good as sound similar results. Yeah, I mean, I mean not to shoot the horn, but I really think the eight one eight at twelve hundred bucks, what's an eat one eight twelve hundred dollars something like that. US I've recommended eight one eighths to half a dozen people. Reckon Cleaner. Yeah, so many reasons. I think absolutely I love this mic. It's it's by far my favorite mic. Yeah, it's it's just so much better of a deal, and the performance is at least there. I mean, they're gonna have a different character of sound, but they're in the end they're both highly professional and. Well, if you think about what the eight one eight is, it's actually a modern take on the C twelve. Yes, that's right. So, and they've done you know, I mean the R and D. They were doing it AKG before it disappeared, and then Austrian Audio took over the factory and the R and D and the people. That was years and years and years worth of testing C twelves and trying to find that, you know, the perfect spot where all those mikes sat, and that's when they built the capsule, which is called the c k R twelve. So so to go back in one thing, apparently the TLM one ninety three is also a close to the supposedly close one to the eighty seven eighty seven. Yeah, and maybe maybe not as hyped. It's it's actually more like the eighty nine maybe, but the eighty nine and the eighty seven, where like the eighty nine was was kind of a replacement for the eighty seven. I needy scoop one of those ones. Those are good. They're smaller to the eighty seven is a big microphone. They're huge. Yeah. Yeah, Now you see you see them with the counterbalance weights in hanging up, Yeah, in the studios and stuff. That's how heavy they must be. Well you get to get there in the morning and things lying on the floor. No, no, yeah, right, yeah, with the head basket six feet away. Exactly lovely. That's just what you'd want to find, isn't it really? Yeah? Sure at this company. Yeah, Now, George was talking about that mic was it t l M one nine three? Did you say the one ninety three is? It's probably more expensive, but it's it's capsules based on the eighty nine. But it says here that it's less hyped than the one O three. Because one O three has got a lot bit of quite a bit of crunch at the top. Is one of three. Seems to be a little bit brighter than the eighty seven, and that's probably due to being transformerless, and the transformer adds, you know, some warmth and a little bit of that fuzzy you know what we call warmth. Yeah, it's interesting that they don't make any of those, you know, they're all TLM series, so there's there's nothing with a transformer that really replaces it in a sense. Well, it's funny because the gaffell I was talking about the M nine thirty smooth, that's transformerleists, but they did do one with a transformer. I can't remember the name of that one. Now. Well, there's a. Lot of ones like you know, you look at the Audio Technical series and the forty forty seven, I think so youah, like the forty thirty three and the forty forty and the forty twenty, and those are all transformer less. But then Audio Technica has got the forty forty seven. Specifically, they threw a transformer in there just to color it up. Yeah, here's a rundown of the eighty seven versus the eight one eight. According to the Internet, the eighty seven will be warmer and more forward in the mid range. The Austrian Audio eight one eight will be more transparent, modern sounding, with more linear mids, in other words, not so forward in the mid range. The eighty seven will have a relaxed top end. The Austrian eight one eight will have a sparkly and high detailed top end. The eighty seven is industry standard for voice less flexible features exactly from the Internet. The Austrian Audio is insanely flexible with a dual output and app control YEP eighty seven transformer coupled output, vintage character and warm The Austrian Audio eight went eight multipolar patterns, more useful in post production and transformerless. I think what it doesn't mention here is I believe the eight one it's quieter. Yeah, that would make sense. Yeah, but if you think about historically when you had you look at abbyroid back in the sixties, so they would have had sixty sevens, sixty sevens and they add C twelves and forty sevens. Yeah, but if you look at the sixty seven and the C twelve, actually they do a forty that's really had forty seven, sixty seven whatever. But the C twelve was also a tube or valve mic but had a lot more sparkle than the forty seven or sixty seven. So it's always been thus, Yes, it has been and continues with Austrian Aldia. And the forty seven is I believe even darker than the sixty seven, and I think the sixty seven actually is a little bit brighter than the eighty seven, but I'm not sure about that. The sixty seven is a really good mic I have to say, like even though the eighty seven the sixty seven should be the same. They say the eighty sevens like a transistored version of the sixty seven. The sixty seven is I think much more smooth from my experience I've used both. Yeah, the sixty seven is a pleasure us for sure. Yeah, yeah, well it's kind of similar to the M ninety two point one. Yeah, people swear, but that the UM fifty seven, which is what they would have been back in the fifty sixties, the fifty seven, which was the Gaffell microphe. Yeah, that was one that had the M seven the Russia or the East German M seven capsule version yep, which which was actually the real M sevens because that's where are the tooling. Was yep correct and still is. And the Gafell I've got the M ninety two point one s has the M seven capsule, So there you go. I guess they say the eighty seven is actually brighter than the sixty seven, I'd say the smoother maybe that's what they mean. But so is it worth investing in the U eighty seven. I think it's hard to encorrect. There's someone I don't know. I get why you sort of feel you need to sort of go that way. But at the same time, given your mic lock, I kind of wonder, you know, if they if they turn around and said, if you've got a U eighty seven, but you turn it back around and went, we'll actually know, but I've got blah blah blah blah blah. I think I think it makes a difference for a studio who's selling time and selling mics. But does it really make a difference. You're still running the mics through a pre amp, and that's and the room, so there's many other things that play. Really this is it, right, There's so many other things that color color, you know, And that's what I'm saying. I kind of, you know, look, the only thing I can I can. I can sort of wonder whether maybe this is the reason behind it is maybe for some reason on the post production side, they want a standard mic, so regardless of everything else, they want the voice record. This is the microphone we want you to use because we want a standard mic across the whole production, and that can be the only thing that I can think of that could be a possible reason. It's it's for reputability, yes, sure, Like like one thing that is true is like if you go from one studio the next, and everyone's going to need seven and someone's here there, and you can get someone back in front of an eighty seven, and supposedly there's some consistency there. It's going to travel like a four to one six. Of course not he's he's going to travel with the U eighty seven. I wouldn't be putting one in my bag, no way, you know, it's like anyway, But yeah, that's that's about the only thing I can see because it's always miffed me this whole Oh you must have a and it's probably more prevalent in the States than it is here. I don't see it. Yeah, definitely don't see. It here at all. The eighty seven, you don't see you it must have out. Yeah, if you want this job, you must have a blah mic or you know, blah blah blah. I don't see that. I've never seen anybody like, you know, suggested microphones. And it's like a badge of whatever, like your level of achievement that you can afford. But I've never seen anybody not get a gig because they don't have an eighty seven. That's yeah. I think. I think if the studio wants you, they're going to want you. You know, if the studio listens to Summer said demo War, listens to Somerset's audition and goes, you know what, she's perfect for their job, I don't think that any any producer in their right mind is going to turn around and go, well, listen, you can't have this kid because you haven't got a U eighty seven. And then someone can be like, pee me up front and ill. And if it came down to that, I'm sure Andrew would be out the door and up to the local annoyment store in a flash, gooing, give me the first U eighty seven off the shelf, please and thank you. I mean. The really funny thing is, honestly, if it was like, hey, we like it on an eighty seven, or here's this wonderful tube gaffel, yes you should actually pick the gaffel. Probably, Yeah, but if they heard it, they would for sure, that's right. Absolutely, they'd be mad if they didn't. Yeah, the trouble is, of course, if you ran up to the store to buy one, you wouldn't able to get one because there's no stock in Australia. Eighty sevens oh, there's no eighty seven star, no go on. So it's like it is the most expensive yet sold out. Isn't that crazy? Because because of the legend in inverted commas, which I don't get. I get the legend thing, I really don't. I'd pick a thousand mics before I picked to you eighty seven for voiceover. I'll be honest, I don't. I don't mind it one voice or I just don't think it makes the It's it's the voice, it's the room, it's it's. The same as any other mic, right, It's not some magic one that you wave and everything on your everything you record sounds perfect. It's just the smaller the factor. The performer is first, the room that you're in a second, the the mic and the pre amp are third. And I'm not sure like which. You eighty seven is just another tool in the shed, it really is. I think the order is performance room. And then you can say Mike pre amp. Well, I mean pre amp, probably more so because you're not going to go and buy a new pre amp, So you want a MIC that's going to sort of match you pre amp? Right, Yeah, yeah, I Mike, I would have thought. Yeah, if you like, like, here's the problem. If you throw garbage on either end of that, you're gonna have garbage. So it's like, how low do you want to go? But a fairly transparent pre amp should technically act like it's not there, and a pretty decent MIC should be fairly flat. But I would say that the mic it has more of a chance of coloring things than a pre amp in general. Lucky you eighty seven into a scarlet. Then people do it all the time saying it's like here's my three thousand dollars mic and my one hundred dollars interface. Right, But that's right exactly, So why don't get that either? You know, it's like here's my fifty million dollar Bentley, and I'm going to go down to Joe's local garage and get it serviced. It's like, I don't understands on it. That's right exactly. Yeah, some kmart tires on my. But the reality is is that you'll still get to where you're going in the Bentley and the scarlet's going to power up and make that eighty seven run perfectly fine, and would it sound a little bit better and a better pre amp like a you know, a grace or something. But just like the eighty seven has this diminishing returns compared to some other mic. Like you know, if if seventy percent of it is the performer and twenty percent of it is the U, the room, the last whatever I've not done my mind, Yeah, is the pre amp and the mic in whatever division of those two you want. And don't forget the converter, by the way, like that is the last and least difference in this w. Let's not forget the engineer on the other end of it too, you know what he does with it can fuck it up to Yeah, let's be honest or save it or save it? Yeah yeah, yeah, right, because. In the end it's all going to be thrown through some stupid plug in eqed and warped some more. It's always funny, isn't it when people get, oh, the room's a bit sort of a bit of reverb in the room. Can you sort that out and then get the file and then add reverb to it to give it some excitement. Yes, but it's a little more controlled. Yeah, exactly. And who adds reverb to voiceover? I mean yeah, I. Think in those days are sort of gone, aren't they. Yeah, did they ever add reverb to voiceover? I used to do in radio land for a little while. Not not massive amounts really, yeah, just to excite it, Just to excite it, give it a bit of presence or not presents, but you know, you know what I mean, give it a bit of shape, put it somewhere in the mix. So yeah, back in radio days, we were dialing in some reverb on the old Rev. Seven So. I was I was always like, it's like the voice of God. It's funny because like, is the voice of God like this big reverberan thing or is it like super direct so it's inside your head? I think it's it's super directing inside your head. Yeah. Steve Britain who we used to triple and we never really put reverb on him. It was more of a delay. It was more of like a slap delay or something on Steve on that voice of God type of thing, or someone like Andrew. You wouldn't use reverb on that. But if it was like a female voice on a radio commercial or something, you'd put a little bit of I don't know what would you put on it, maybe like a plate, like a short plate or something like that. Yeah, I only ever put effects on for commercials. I mean for music, of course, but for commercials it was always just try and direct. Unless you're going for like a story element you know. Would only be subtle. You certainly you know you have to really sort of study the mix to hear it. It would be there, but just yeah, it wasn't sort of in your face element. I dot of what they used to do with Don la Fontaine. We should ask George. George wouldn't know. Yeah, we just had someone go through tech support and we had to help them get source connect in line with his processing and emails it went through. Is usually the engineers don't want processing on your voice. Are you sure you want to do this? And the guy says, I'm a I forget what he said, Like you know, I'm a thirty year veteran. And while I agree with you in general, I find that most engineers these days do not do to my voice what I know I can do better than them, right, I don't like the way they make me sound. You know I need? You know my production better than me? Do you? Okay? Very good? You're like, okay, well you won't mind if I book someone else? Then thank you for. I'm a thirty year veteran engineer. You're fired. Okay, we'll help you process your voice. Yeah, and if you want to sell that, you aty seven years and I certain you might want to buy it. That's the Pro Audio Suite and Austrian audio recorded using Source Connect, edited by Andrew Peters and mixed by Robo. Got your own audio issues just ask Robbo dot com. Take some port from George the Tech Window. Don't forget to subscribe to the show and join the conversation on our Facebook group to leave a comment, suggest a topic, or just say today, drop us a our website, how audio Sweet dot com. MHM