Recorded via Source Connect. Edited by Andrew Peters. Mixed by Robbo.
Tech support from George the Tech Whittam. Got your own audio issues? 👉 JustAskRobbo.com
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(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Y'all ready to be history?
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Get started.
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Welcome.
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Hi.
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Hi.
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Hi.
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Hello everyone.
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To the Pro Audio Suite.
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These guys are professional.
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They're motivated.
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With Tech the VO stars.
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George Whitten, founder of Source Elements.
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Robert Marshall, international audio engineer.
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Darren Robbo Robertson and Global Voice.
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Andrew Peters, thanks to Triboo.
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Austrian Audio, making passion heard.
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Source Elements, George the Tech Whitten.
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And Robbo and AP's international demos.
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To find out more about us, check theproaudiosuite
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.com.
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Line up, man.
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Here we go.
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And welcome to another Pro Audio Suite.
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Thanks to Austrian Audio, making passion heard.
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And Tribooth.
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Don't forget the code.
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T-R-I-P-A-P 200.
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That will get you 200 US dollars off
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your Tribooth.
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And big tip, they work.
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So if you're looking for a booth, get
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one.
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And they work better than one you can
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make yourself too.
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Absolutely.
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As I know from experience.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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If you can be bothered making one.
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Now today we're going to talk about plug
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-ins.
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But I thought we'd start with Robbo.
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What's your favourite plug-in, Robbo?
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You're going to start with me?
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Yeah.
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Well, look, it's not my favourite.
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But I'll talk about one that I came
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across.
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And just quickly, I started this little thing
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with myself on a Friday afternoon.
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Where I've set aside two hours in the
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afternoon.
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And I have to go and download a
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plug-in I've never used before.
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And it can be something I've heard about.
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Or something I've just discovered on the web.
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And I have to open up a session
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from something that I've done this week.
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And I have to find a way to
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use it.
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So it's kind of been this little.
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It's really opened a whole bunch of things
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for me.
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Like creativity-wise and sort of learning about
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stuff.
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So look, this isn't a game-changing one.
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But this is one that might change the
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game for someone with a home studio.
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A voiceover artist.
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I discovered this thing.
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It actually got recommended to me by Toby
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Ricketts.
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I'd never heard of it before.
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But George knew of it.
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It's called TDM Nova.
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And it's just a free, George, basically multiband
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compressor sort of thing.
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Yeah, it's actually TDR, which stands for Tokyo
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Dawn Records.
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Yes.
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I guess it's a record label or a
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record production, music production company.
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I don't know where the name came from.
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But TDR Novas.
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And it's, yeah, they have a free version.
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It has a four-band, what I would
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call a dynamic EQ.
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Yeah, with a high-pass and low-pass
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as well.
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It's really useful.
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It's very cool.
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I've been playing around with it.
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And if you're sort of a voiceover artist
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with a home studio who, I don't know,
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like we were talking about before, maybe there's
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some room resonances or a bit of de
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-essing or something like that that you want
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to try to get rid of.
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Yeah, it would actually be, from what I've
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found from playing with it, more than adequate
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to do the job.
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And it's free.
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So that's no game-changer.
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But for this show, I reckon that's a
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pretty good one.
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Because everyone's out there looking for free stuff.
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So TDR Novas.
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TDR Nova, as in over the radio station
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here in Sydney, yeah.
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Yeah, I will give a plus one on
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that too.
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I use that one for all the folks
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who do not have any good de-essers
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and other tools that are kind of weak
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in the toolbox.
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It works as a plug-in in Audacity.
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It works in Twisted Wave.
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It works in everything.
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And especially on Twisted Wave, there's no de
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-essers that come with an Apple audio unit
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plug-in suite.
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You know, when you get an Apple computer,
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it comes with a decent usable suite of
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plug-ins, but it's missing a few things,
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specifically a de-esser.
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It's got a multiband.
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It's got a multiband.
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I have a really tough time getting a
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really satisfactory result using the multiband.
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I just haven't mastered using it for de
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-essing and stuff.
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Even though it's got a really nice looking
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GUI for its multiband.
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Yeah, it ain't bad.
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Considering it's free and it comes on every
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Mac.
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Well, it might sound like shit, but at
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least it looks good.
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Yeah, that's the most important thing.
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Yeah, that's more important.
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But TDR does a surprisingly nice job.
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It's not an easy plug-in.
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You know, some plug-ins that you pay
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a lot of money for, they're expensive because
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they're highly tuned and specific and made to
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be easy as humanly possible.
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That's true.
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So some plug-ins that are free, they
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do it for free because either one, they're
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super simplistic, or two, they're powerful, but they
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have a big learning curve.
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And TDR is one of those.
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One thing I did miss, and maybe I
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don't know whether I missed it or whether
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it's just not there, but a solo on
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each of the bands as you're going through
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would be nice.
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I don't believe it has.
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Now, they have a pro version of the
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plug-in.
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That's how they monetize.
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Ah, okay, there you go.
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So it's got more bands, more functions, and
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it may have that.
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That may have that.
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So if you like it that much, it
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might be worth getting the pro version.
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Ah, I've got enough EQs.
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Yeah, I know, right?
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But yeah, nice.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Very good, though.
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There you go.
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That's my tip.
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Robert, you got one?
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Yeah, I was thinking, like, what plug-in
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am I going to say?
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And one of the thoughts that went through
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my head was, number one, I have a
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lot of plug-ins, and I keep on
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using for the last 30 years pretty much
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a lot of the same plug-ins.
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And I was thinking, like, there's all these
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new plug-ins, but really whatever you're doing,
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mixing music or whatnot, you basically need three
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types of plug-ins to do most everything
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you need.
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You need a good EQ, a good compressor,
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a delay, and a reverb.
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And you can get most everything you need
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to get done with those things.
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And then I was thinking, what's that one
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plug-in that I use a lot and
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that's really useful?
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And I've said it before, and I use
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the crap out of Wave C4.
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It's a multi-band compressor.
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I use it like an EQ.
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It can expand and compress.
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So it's a multi-band processor, but I
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will find myself often compressing the very high
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end as a de-esser.
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And I'll take the low end, and I'll
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expand it to make someone sound more chesty
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and big.
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And then in the middle, you compress it,
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and that gets it out of the way
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of a lot of this stuff.
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And it's just two things in one.
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And I would agree that if you know
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your way around a multi-band processor, a
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multi-band dynamics processor, whatever you want to
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call it, a multi-band compressor or a
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dynamic EQ, the lines between these devices are
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very blurred in a sense.
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You can get a lot done with one
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plug-in if you have a multi-band
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device like that that's dynamics and deals with
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the frequencies.
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So I've been using for years the crap
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out of Wave C4.
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But I'd also agree that there's many.
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To go way, way, way back in time,
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if you remember, actually Antares, the people that
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make Auto-Tune, they used to have a
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plug-in called MDT, which was a multi...
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Oh, wow.
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Yeah, you are going back.
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I don't know if you remember that one.
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Way, way back in the day.
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I mean, back in the sound designer two
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days.
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But that was one of the first.
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And I used to use that a lot
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for mastering.
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So yeah, multi-band dynamic processors, they're super
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useful.
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And one device can do three things at
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once if you know your way around it.
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The other nice one is if you can
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sidechain them too, so sidechain your voiceover to
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the music bed or whatever and sort of
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carve a nice little hole in there too
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underneath your voiceover in the mix.
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So Waves C6 lets you sidechain a particular
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band.
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Like one of the bands can be sidechained.
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You would use that middle frequency range that
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you were talking about in that case for
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your mix.
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Exactly, yep.
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You always love it when the client picks
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a music track with like a, I don't
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know, is it a tenor saxophone that's in
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that voiceover range or whatever, you know?
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And you're sort of like, oh, fuck, all
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these frequencies all in the same fucking place.
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You know, it's like Jesus.
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And it's mixed smack dab in the middle.
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It's not even far out left and right.
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Yeah, that's right.
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It's not even on the sides.
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Yeah, it's like, fuck!
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You arsehole.
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Is there a better track, do you reckon?
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Maybe that's a good AI plug-in that
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they should make, is this like D-Sax.
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D-Sax.
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Or like D-Kenny G.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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D-Kenny.
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It's the D-Kenny plug-in.
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Kenny G banger.
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Kenny G banger.
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That's what my wife wears on a Saturday
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night.
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Yeah, lucky you.
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That's why you have so many kids.
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You're using a multiband, or that's one you've
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found?
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And George?
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Well, TDR, as I said, it's great.
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And the one that I've been, I haven't
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used nearly as extensively as I maybe should.
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But I have recommended and set it up
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for a few folks.
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There's a lesser known company in a similar
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vein to iZotope called Akon, A-C-O
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-N.
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They've been around, they stood the test of
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time.
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And, you know, their plug-ins are quite
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nice, and they're doing their particular deal right
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now, so it's not a bad time to
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buy plug-ins.
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It says summer sale now, up to 70
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% off on their website.
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The one that I've been enjoying and finding
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easy to use, not overly expensive, and very
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effective, is their Extract Dialog.
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It's a weird name.
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It doesn't sound like it'd be a good
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noise reduction tool, but that's what it does.
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It's really designed to take the dialog, the
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voice, and pull it out of the crud.
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And so it's a noise reduction tool.
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But I also found, accidentally, whether this is
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intended or not, but based on the description
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of the plug-in, it clearly is.
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It says, the revolutionary plug-in that magically
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separates your dialog from various types of background
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noise, including wind, rustle, traffic, hums, clicks, and
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pops.
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So it has this amazing ability to do
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a lot of different jobs, including de-clicking.
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So in one plug-in, you're doing a
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lot of jobs, which can simplify your setup.
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I would point out that it's more of
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a voice extractor than a de-noiser.
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And I think that's the case with a
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lot of these new de-noise plug-ins,
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where really they're designed to separate the signal
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from what it considers noise.
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But, for example, it wouldn't be useful if
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you had noisy music and you wanted to
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take the noise out of the music, because
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that thing is very specific about taking noise
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out of voice signals.
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So a lot of these AI things are
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not broad tools.
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They're very, very specific as to what they
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do.
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This one deals with voice.
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Same thing with waves clarity.
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It doesn't just deal with voice, it deals
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with spoken dialogue.
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Spoken voice, right, exactly.
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Yeah, dialogue more than singing, exactly.
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And I kind of realized this this weekend,
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I was doing some de-noising for someone's
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audio book, and I was just noticing how
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the AI noise reduction for the voice was
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good, but it wasn't as good as going
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back to the old, in this case, I
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just went back to Z-Noise, and take
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that fingerprint, and it was able to, a
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little bit more destructively in imparting a sound,
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but it could get in and rip the
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noise out compared to just trying to eliminate
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the noise in between passages and stuff.
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I was like, wow, it was interesting, because
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sometimes you have new tools, and then you
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write off all your old tools, and you
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don't think about those old tools.
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But sometimes those old tools, they still do
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what they did, and they're good.
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That's what I was going to say, the
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same thing, sometimes it's worth going back and
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finding some really old plugins that you used
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to love, and they've been put aside, and
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then you play with them again and go,
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wow.
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So Clarity, exactly what I'm talking about, like
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X-Noise is the one I used, which
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is old, I mean, 20, maybe not 20,
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but at least 15 years old.
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Clarity is in the last three years, and
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Clarity is amazing, but like I said, it
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didn't really actually pull out as much noise
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in the actual delivery of the voice.
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Do you know what, I'm fast learning, because
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I don't use a lot of noise reduction
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day to day, but the more I'm using
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it, the more I'm finding that, I don't
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think there's one, like you might have one
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go-to EQ, or one go-to compressor,
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or something like that.
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I don't think there is a one go
00:12:25
-to noise reduction for stuff, I find that
00:12:28
they all have their own idiosyncrasies, and all
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that sort of stuff, and you've really got
00:12:32
to sort of go, yeah, okay, that's not
00:12:34
bad, but I wonder if I can do
00:12:36
better, and sort of pull down whatever you've
00:12:38
got in your library, and try them all
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before you settle on one.
00:12:42
Absolutely, and even to the point that I
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use, going back to it, I've often used
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the C4 as a noise reduction plug-in,
00:12:51
because I'll use it as an expander, and
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then you can expand out, and that way
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you're not killing everything all at once.
00:12:57
You know that there's Brushfree, was it called?
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Yeah, Brushfree.
00:13:01
Right, that's a noise reduction that uses multiband,
00:13:05
and this one, Brushfree, has many more bands.
00:13:07
Or Bertom denoiser, that's another one, Bertom denoiser.
00:13:09
I will use Bertom in sequence with a
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standard expander.
00:13:14
I'll even use Clarity VX with an expander
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after it, to catch little things that the
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Clarity kind of missed.
00:13:20
I will cascade these, I will, yeah.
00:13:23
I'll usually multiband expand, and then go into
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something that's more destructive to get the rest
00:13:31
of it, because with many plug-ins, if
00:13:35
you try to use them on their extremes,
00:13:37
the most noise reduction, it's going to start
00:13:39
showing its artifacts more.
00:13:41
But if each one is used a little
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bit, you don't pick up on the artifacts.
00:13:44
Well, I was saying before we started recording
00:13:46
today, I've picked up a podcast for a
00:13:48
couple of ladies in Canada that I'm doing
00:13:50
for them, and they're basically just, they haven't
00:13:54
even got studios.
00:13:55
They're just recording in spare bedrooms and stuff,
00:13:57
and I've worked with them and got them
00:13:58
set up as best I can, but my
00:14:01
noise reduction chain for them is that I
00:14:03
use Clarity on both of them, but then
00:14:06
rather than having to overwork it on the
00:14:08
master bus, because I have a, well, not
00:14:11
a master bus, sorry, a dialogue bus, I'm
00:14:13
just using the NS1, but I'd like two
00:14:17
or three.
00:14:17
Which the NS1's an expander.
00:14:19
Exactly, it's just a clean up, and that
00:14:21
just cleans up whatever's left without overworking Clarity,
00:14:24
and it sounds great.
00:14:25
I'll tell you, anybody with an NS1, the
00:14:26
scaling of the control is really kind of
00:14:29
whacked out.
00:14:30
You know, it goes from 0 to 100.
00:14:32
Have you ever used it above 10?
00:14:36
No, I don't think so.
00:14:38
Like 10%, 10%.
00:14:41
Most of these things, little goes a long
00:14:43
way.
00:14:44
I would say one thing I've noticed in
00:14:46
general in the last two, three years since
00:14:49
a lot of these AI noise reduction things
00:14:51
have come out, people think that now noise
00:14:55
is not an issue, that AI can just
00:14:58
take care of it, and it's not true.
00:15:01
It is not harmless.
00:15:03
And even though they are less invasive than
00:15:06
old noise, people are so much more willing
00:15:09
to go, oh, just run it through some
00:15:11
AI and it'll just take out the noise.
00:15:13
It will make it sound fake and slightly
00:15:18
weird in this way that you can't put
00:15:20
your finger on it, but it's not, it's
00:15:24
just weird.
00:15:25
The free one from Adobe, the podcast one,
00:15:28
they have a noise reduction tool in there
00:15:29
that's obviously AI, and it does some extremely
00:15:33
bizarre things.
00:15:35
I mean, it literally takes your voice, makes
00:15:37
a model, and replaces it with the model.
00:15:40
Oh, wow.
00:15:40
So you end up with something that sounds
00:15:42
like you, but just a little off to
00:15:46
the left.
00:15:47
That's a long way around reinventing the wheel,
00:15:51
isn't it?
00:15:51
But you also wonder where your voice is
00:15:53
going.
00:15:54
Yeah, well, in doing so, it's getting rid
00:15:56
of all the noise.
00:15:57
It's supernatural capability.
00:15:59
Because it's remaking it.
00:16:01
Yeah, but it's just like, dude, to what
00:16:03
end?
00:16:03
And they think it's the fix for audio.
00:16:06
I heard the guy speak at PodFest.
00:16:10
He was there demonstrating it.
00:16:11
And I'm listening to the demonstration videos, and
00:16:14
I'm watching his presentation, and I'm listening to
00:16:16
his clips and going, this is not great.
00:16:21
You know, you guys think it's great, because
00:16:23
you built it.
00:16:24
But I'm listening to the audio, and I'm
00:16:26
going, it ain't great.
00:16:27
It is not the same as properly recorded
00:16:30
audio.
00:16:30
And here's my fear.
00:16:32
All of a sudden, just like if you
00:16:33
don't auto-tune your vocals, they don't sound
00:16:37
professional somehow.
00:16:39
Like in certain music contexts, like everything is
00:16:41
so auto-tuned out the other end that
00:16:45
it sounds terrible.
00:16:47
But for the right audience, it's like, that's
00:16:50
the sound of professional.
00:16:52
And I think that some of this ultra
00:16:53
-scrubbed clean AI noise-reduced, it's just fake
00:16:58
sounding.
00:16:59
It imparts the sound that you can't put
00:17:02
your finger on.
00:17:02
It's roboticized, dehumanized.
00:17:06
And this is pop music in a nutshell.
00:17:08
I will say, though, at the same time,
00:17:10
there's a pushback against all that among young
00:17:12
people, I've found.
00:17:13
And my daughter particularly.
00:17:16
And your daughter too, Robert, have great music
00:17:18
ears, so they hear these things.
00:17:20
But if it's overly fucked with, she doesn't
00:17:25
get into it that much.
00:17:26
I mean, it depends on the genre.
00:17:28
Some of it is just purely processed.
00:17:30
But she still loves...
00:17:31
Plastic music, yeah.
00:17:33
Traditionally produced, I wouldn't call it folk music,
00:17:36
but I would say traditionally produced music where
00:17:38
it's people playing instruments.
00:17:40
And so I think kids are going to,
00:17:43
honestly, there's going to be a little bit
00:17:46
of a pushback.
00:17:46
Like, how far are we going to go
00:17:48
with everything being fake?
00:17:49
I hope so.
00:17:50
Because the latest round of AI now is
00:17:54
not just how in music you double your
00:17:56
vocals and layer them, and the trick of
00:17:58
a really good performer is they're able to
00:18:00
sing the exact same thing so closely together
00:18:03
that you can barely tell that it's been
00:18:05
doubled and it gives it that thicker sound.
00:18:07
But unless you're a producer and a music
00:18:10
person, you don't really go, that's doubled.
00:18:12
You just think that sounds thick.
00:18:14
Ozzy is the king of that.
00:18:15
Yes.
00:18:16
But now there's just...
00:18:17
Or was.
00:18:17
Like, Waves has one, and it does it.
00:18:21
But again, it's like every time you pass
00:18:23
all this stuff through the AI machine, it's
00:18:25
like...
00:18:26
Something has lost.
00:18:27
It makes it plasticky fake.
00:18:28
Something has lost.
00:18:30
Yeah.
00:18:30
If you want to hear some amazing harmonies,
00:18:34
Google a video, it's John Farnham, who's like
00:18:38
a legendary Australian vocalist.
00:18:41
We call him The Voice here.
00:18:43
That's basically what we call him.
00:18:45
And two of his backing singers, who are
00:18:48
all equally amazingly talented, but it's Vinetta Fields
00:18:51
and Lindsay Field, and they do an a
00:18:54
cappella version, although there's a sympiano that comes
00:18:57
in later on, but basically an a cappella
00:18:59
version of Amazing Grace.
00:19:01
And it's back in the late 80s, early
00:19:04
90s AP, would it have been?
00:19:06
Yeah, somewhere like that.
00:19:06
Somewhere like that.
00:19:06
So there's no autotune, and they are just
00:19:10
fucking impeccable.
00:19:11
It is so good.
00:19:13
Yeah.
00:19:14
So good.
00:19:15
Yeah, it's true.
00:19:15
Yeah.
00:19:17
So do you believe in sound after processing?
00:19:22
I believe less is more sometimes.
00:19:24
Yeah, I think so too.
00:19:25
Look, yeah, less is more, and especially with
00:19:27
the noise reduction.
00:19:28
I don't think Robbie got that one.
00:19:29
Noise reduction?
00:19:30
Yeah.
00:19:32
Noise reduction wasn't invented to get rid of
00:19:34
barking dogs and noisy kids.
00:19:36
Don't assume.
00:19:36
It was invented to get rid of sound
00:19:38
on set and all that sort of shit,
00:19:39
like just camera noise and stuff.
00:19:41
So don't try and use it as a
00:19:44
magic marker or something.
00:19:45
If you're aware of a problem, fix it,
00:19:49
and don't assume that it can be just
00:19:52
magic wanded away.
00:19:54
What is it, this one?
00:19:58
Yeah.
00:20:00
Just have it go like this.
00:20:03
Gone.
00:20:04
Poof.
00:20:04
Oh, yeah.
00:20:06
Well, that was fun.
00:20:07
Is it over?
00:20:08
Sounds good to me.
00:20:09
The Pro Audio Suite.
00:20:11
With thanks to Tribo.
00:20:12
And Austrian Audio.
00:20:14
Recorded using SourceConnect.
00:20:15
Edited by Andrew Peters.
00:20:17
And mixed by Robbo.
00:20:18
Got your own audio issues?
00:20:20
Just ask Robbo.com.
00:20:22
With tech support from George the Tech Whizzer.
00:20:23
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