Guess That Mic: Four Mics, Ten Listeners and One Surprise Winner

Any history. Welcome my name. Hi. The pro audiose guys are professional and motivated with text. The Leo Stars George Wisam, founder of Source Element, Robert Marshall, International audio Engineer Darren, Robbo Roberts and Global Voice Andrew Peters. Thanks to Triboo, Austrian audio making passion, her Source Elements, George the Tech Wisdom and Robbo and AP's international demo. To find out more about us, check the pro Audio Suite dot com. It's time too, Yes that Mike. And Andrew Peter's doing his best Max Rolly Yeah or me yes, starts with the stars. Yeah. Okay, so this is not overly scientific, so I'll give a bit of a backstory. Someone asked me for a sample of a certain my guy I have, which I did, and then I thought, actually, I wonder what the other onees sound like. Ended up recording four different mics and then a million different emails, a million different emails, and then yeah I did Actually they've got a bit confusing, Sorry about that chats, and then I thought, well, let's just throw it out there and see how people rate these four microphones. I wonder if I should reveal what they are at the beginning. No, let's go through. Let's compare. Let's compare what everybody said first, because then the clanger is, oh my god, I can't believe I said that about that. Okay, well I hed fifty seven. Okay, Well let's start with mic number one. What are your thoughts on mic number one? Well, let's have a listen to it. George, can you play it for us? Okay? This is the mystery mic. Come about six inches away from the microphone, running through a grace, M one oh one. No processing, no high pass filter, nothing, just the mic and the pre And I'll explain after why that was the only mic that ran through the grace. The rest of them ran through the neve ten seventy three. I just scribbled down short note to each is I was listening My notes say sibilant and self noise yep, So that was that was my foot That was my thoughts for first time listening. Band passed a little bit, so I didn't have the full wide wide range fidelity of your voice, and a little bit higher self noise. And then I also noticed in the wave for him there was some clipping that might have just been the output of the grease into the ad converter. It's hard to really say for sure. I don't think the grase was clipping. And that clue that you said you use the grace specifically could mean that you use the grace specifically because it has a ribbon mode and you wanted to use ribbon mode with mic. That's my okay, all right, but a good guess. I like that. That's good. It does have a room very handy. Yes, yeah, okay, okay. I thought it was just banned, limited, lacked, low end. Had to seem to have a high end cap off too, you know, just was the least flattering, especially for Andrew's voice of the four. I don't know. I wasn't really looking at clipping her noise. I honestly listened to it twice. That all right, Well, I'll use Matt mackenzie Smith from Matrics in Adelaide because he's actually given just a short rating or comment on each mic. So he's got Mike number one seems to have a harmonic residence around four seventeen to nine hundred and eighty hertz, also a bit more energy around two point five k. He did not rate that mic very highly at all. In fact, I think he rated that Mic last like we all did, I think. I mean, I can tell me that Mike actually did quite well, so in the overall school really really yes I did? Okay, Okay. How many people did actually diansipate in this ten okay? Okay, so you know you had that many friends? I don't, I just until they give him Yeah, okay, so sorry, Mic number two. Okay, this is mystery MIC number two once again about six inches from the mic, no processing on. So my opinions of that one are I think if I remember a little bit more bottom end, still kind of bright and not as flattering like as the as the others, although it'd be interesting to see how that one works in the appropriate spot. Yeah, you know what I mean. Well, I've got warmer, nice, nice, smooth top end, more cut. Yeah, more cut, definitely more cut, Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah, warmer than mic one is because I listened to them in order. Yeah, in the context of this sample, this one is nicer than more pleasant, more pleasing, more flattering than like one. Okay, definitely, And this would cut well in a mix with a lot. Of music exactly. That's why I workout even though on its own, Yeah, this could it's not so good. That's the thing. Like, Yeah, when we hear things alone, we like I like hearing full fidelity, full bandwidth. But in the mix is a different story. And oftentimes mixes lose the low end quite. A bit where you have to cut a lot of bottoms. Yeah, okay, there's a lot of implied low end to all things get messy very quickly. Well, this is what Matt Mackenzie Smith said about that one. I'm sorry about everybody else. I'm sure you gave me comments, but. Well, actually what we'll do ape is I'll get you to send them to me and in the show notes, I'll post everybody's comments. How's that? Okay? Cool? Cool? Cook cool? All right? Mike number two sounds lovely, but a bit more prominent in the four to five K area, which is basically what you guys just said, right, all right, Mike number three, Okay, this is mystery Mike number three. This one has no high pass filter, of course it doesn't, and no processing whatsoever. It is running through the nave ten seventy three. Nice and pillowy and really hard to tell between three and four which one was hugely better or worse, But for probably an arbitrary reason. I liked it a little less than four, but I think definitely significantly warmer and smoother and more pillowy for lack of a better word, than the other two mics. So how do you see that working in a mixed though? For you, Robert, I'd probably equ the shit out of it fair enough. It sounds great on its own, but it'd probably it probably would need some work at lost. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you'd have to. You'd have to like boost it in the four in the up in the upper midst probably depending on how what you're sitting against it. It would definitely get ecue. The other two cueable mic though, right, Yeah, it's all there. Yeah, it's all there. It's very smooth in the mids. So and nothing her sounds like you're going to bring up any garbage. It's all very acceptable. Yeah, Yeah, it was definitely. I think definitely sounds like a more quality mic, but definitely, uh, I would need some sculpting depending on unless you're just in the mix on your own, that's a whole different story, you know. Oh, if it's a cold, cold read, yeah. Or if you're wanting to sound like a bit of a vog big, mysterious voice layered over a atmosphere, and I really want to hear the whole thing. And it's theatrical and it's going to end up in a you know, played back in a theater, and I want the subwl first to get some energy. That would be okay, cool, that would be a nice sound. Well, the only thing, the only other thing I noticed. I mean, I'm pretty much agreed with everything you guys have said, but I noticed there'll still a bit of self noise on that one too. I picked up in the background when my notes say that nuts. Yeah, that's what. Honestly wasn't in the headspace, like I was just listening for quality. I mean, honestly, even though there's more noise on that thing, it was usable. Again, unless it was like the only thing there, then maybe the noise is a. No, it wasn't. Yeah, it's not a not a reason not to use it at all. No, Yeah, that's terrible noise. Yeah, yeah, nothing at all. About the noise could be coming from it could be coming from the pre amp, so it could be line noise, could be anything. Yeah, I mean, also you've got the the neeve transformers. I don't know, maybe maybe that's what you're hearing. Okay, So moving on to mike number four, lucky last. This is mystery Mike number four. It's running through the neve the same as the second third, and now this one. The first mic was running through the grace. I'm going to play three and four. I'm going to play three and four back to back, just straight through. Here we go. Okay, this is mystery mic number three. This one has no high pass filter, of course it doesn't, and no processing whatsoever. It is running through the neve ten seventy three. This is mystery mic number four. It's running through the nive the same as the second third, and now this one. The first mic was running through the grace. Yeah, that one's got a little bit more upper mid four of six K character energy something something. Yeah there as. Much might not need as much eqbe. It also still was just as smooth pillows as the Yeah there's number three. Which to me is the most important thing in terms of a microphone's response is I feel it should be very flat and smooth between one hundred and six K, you know, or four K like just I don't want there to be much character there. I want the mic to be very easily equable to get the sound you want from it. That's my opinion. No saw toothy, jagged crap that makes it yeah character, Yeah. And that's why I don't like the dynamic mics like the SEM seven. They're not very smooth. They're a little bit bumpy, you know, even though it can sound really good occasionally, you know, but it's a good second it's not a good primary mic, you know. So which one of the third and four. Unless you are only doing radio and podcasts and maybe right. Yeah, so between for me, I think three still nudges out four. Okay, I liked four better. I thought, yeah, I did too. Yeah, funny because I was this four three two one was was my pick. Two, I was two one four three. But I did say I did kve at that with if I was looking for a voiceover for for my work, not just for a voice over that was pleasant to listen to. Yeah, that was my order. Sure, I have a feeling I have a feeling two or three or something like a forty one six or something going on in that zone, But I don't know something bright. Number four had a lot more low end, like off the bottom of the lf E chart. Like there was low end little there was energy at the low low end, like below fifty. You know, you wouldn't normally hear notice or it would be killed, but it's there in the wave. You know, there's little things. It's probably more noise than signal. Yeah, or just there's one thing appears to pop there. Yeah, there's a there's a pop right here, or a thump. It's like a So, George, was your order just out of interest? What you have? Did you order the I. Was three four two one wow? Okay, yeah, and Robert wi team except for three? I was four three two one. You just went back You just counted backwards. Were you practicing that? You're practicing it for me sometimes? So well, Robot you were you were two, one, four, three or three? That's right. An interesting comment you had on number. In order of liking it to not liking it. You like those two break makes well? Yeah. But I did as I said to Andrew my email the Cave. It was that if if I was if I was using one of those recordings for work, that would be the order I would pick him in. Yes, but I did. What did I say Andrew? I think I said, mikes are closer to what you would eq. The other two to make them like, h That's what I'd be trying to do with the other two if I needed to use it in a promo something. Three and four are definitely more versatile microphones than one and two. Yeah, I think I said to Andrew something about three and four. You know if or was it one? I said, number nine said number one for audio books. Yeah, you said number three you thought was a ribbon? Possibly? Yeah, I thought I wondered whether it was a ribbon. Yeah, Okay, I. Don't think any of them are ribbons. No, I don't think so. They're based on the self noise. Okay, well I can tell you now that Mike number one, so this is who picked them as their favorite. Make so Mike number one got three, Mike number two got two, Mike number three got three, and Mike number four got two. Three had the most. Three is the winner? Well? No, three and three and one both got three number one. But if you add the scores up, so FI give them an average score. So you got four for a number one, pick three for a number two? Two one? Are you add up the scores so the total scores ten people voting, so you have Mike number one twenty three points, Mike number two twenty five points, Mike number three twenty seven points, and Make number four twenty five points. So make number three actually three, and so three is the winner. Three is the winner. Three is the winner. Out of interest, what did the other guys do that you polled? I'll tell you who they are? Okay, So Chris Gates, Who's he's a radio guy? Chris Gates, he picks I thought. They were all Jackhammer operators. Who don't Chris Chris? Interestingly, he picked Mike number two is his favorite, Make number three is his second choice, Make number four is his third choice, and Make number one is his last pick. Simon Murphy from SMR we've had on the show before, he picked Mike number Mike number one is his favorite. Make number In fact, you're winning almost in the same order, so make number one. Mike number two came second, Mike number four came third, and Make number three came fourth. For him as he is also radio guy in Dubai, he picked his favorite one was Mike number four, second favorite, Make number three. In fact, he reversed the order for a radio guy, Mike number three, Mike number two came third and Mike number one came fourth, So he just flipped it upside down rather. Did the fourth three to two one. So Matt Mackenzie Smith that we've talked about that he gave us a bit of a rundown on what his thoughts on these MIC's. He went his favorite mic was Mike number three, second favorite, Mike number four, Mike number three, Make number two came third, and Make number one came fourth. He was a scene. And then Paul Baxter, who's backs the sound known for years and years and years. Guy from South Africa. He who lives in Melbourne. Now of course he picked his first choice was Mike number three, second choice, Make number one, third choice, Make number two, and fourth came Make number four. And then that's an interesting pick because one and two or one and two are in the middle, Yeah, bracketed by the two most So well, he's. One of the the anomalies. There's a couple of outlies and he's one of them who have mixed them up. And we'll understand what I mean when I tell you what the mics are. Maddie from Sonic Playground, he picked his favorite was Mike number one. Second favorite Mike number In fact, he did in the right order. So Mike number one, Mike number two, make number three, and Mike number four. That was his order. Wow, okay. In other words, he didn't have a lot of time on his hands. No, he actually spent quite by the time in his hands. Actually we spoke for quite a while and then. I love this. This is a great computison. This just shows everybody how they have no idea, why. Don't know what they are? And that's what I mean, it's no science is purely subjective. And your old buddy, Robert Mike Ayton, he chimed in with his favorite was Mike number but one. His second favorite was Mike number four, third favorite was Mike number three, and fourth was Mike number two. There you go another one where they grouped the three and four middle and then they had one two in the ends. So there you go. So what were the mics wrong? They were all They were all the same mic. You just equ the shit out of them. Wouldn't that be a classic if I said they're all the same mic? That would be funny. Which one had the highest score? Name that one? The one had the high score was Mike number. Three, twenty seven number three three, which is yea the O C eight one eight wow, yeah, yep, yep yeah, and then you got to. You got tie for second and fourth. They both had twenty five points each and Mic number four what. Are the choices because it's hard to know, but if I if I have yes, it's. Seconder four was a C four one four eb yeah, yeah, oh okay, yeah yeah. And that's why they're so similar, because the eight one eight and the four yeah cousins. And then twenty three points went to mic number one, and that was the Gaffell M ninety two point one with the M seven capsule, and it isn't M seven by the way, Robert I checked it out. It's just they don't have the back part of So what was Mike number two? Did we say? Mike number two is also a Gaffel that came in with twenty five points. I forgot to mention that I tied for second was the M nine to thirty art from Gaffell art aarto. So the two most expensive mics score the lowest correct by a long shot, Like, yeah, one of those mics is as much as both of the other two. Well maybe not your four one four is a classic, so yeah's probably worth I. Think the four one four the most expensive mics here was. Actually I can't even put a value on the nine thirty because. I think it actually went in reverse order, the cheapest to the most expensive. Yeah, between it did. You're quite right. The least expensive is technically the eight one eight. The four to fourteen, given its vintage, actually is now like yeah, prime, And then you have your tube and your Cafell's being like three thousand dollars. Well, I think the eb I saw them on Reva was something. There's a couple of facile quite hard to find that and work on capsule and that one't four and a half thousand or. Something, holy small. Yes, And just to be clear, it's a nylon capsule. You're saying it's a true M seven even though it's not a. Multiple Cafell on the ninety two point one is an M seven capsule, but they just don't connect the back of the capsule as I do on the UM. Yeah. Really so, so if you took it out in rewired stuff, you could get a you could get a figure out out of that thing or whatever you interest. A seven capsule E F eighty six tube I've got. I'm going to defend that. And the reason that's why I run it through the grass. Someone should do a damn mod on that thing and give it the rest of the polar patterns. That seems you can. Get the U ninety two point one, but there are another thousand bucks, but I don't need multipaders. For wiring up the back of the capsule that's already there. That's like when you buy a car and you don't get the options and the options are still wired in the dash. I'm sorry, was number one? That is the N ninety two point one, that's the tube? Yeah, okay, yes, Now explain the slightly elevated noise. So I've got a feeling and that's why I didn't run it through the leaf, because I thought tube's in a transformer, it's going to be like and it was pretty full on. So I switched out and running through the grace because I thought, I just at least it doesn't have that. I've got no filtering, no high passing, no low cut, nothing. Just that was as okay interesting. Andrew ran this by me about a week and ideas ago, and he played it for me. I was like, I don't know that one sounds like crap, there's something wrong with it, and he's like, no, that's a really expensive mike. And then it turned out that when he first when he first did it, what did he have switched? I had what I had the high pass field on. Yeah, that was that was a. Yeah, the high pass filter. And I'm like, that doesn't sound. Very well like a one killer Grace high pass I think, or yeah, oh okay, yeah, oops. Anyway, so I turned the high pass off and it did sound a bit better. But I've got a feeling on that that that cafell. I think it's I've ordered any the F eighty six tube because I think that is pretty old, so that could be it could be wonky, that could be a factory. Yeah, so I'll check in a new YouTube and just see what it sounds like. And and also you got a how long have you had it for? Because theoretically that PBC on the nylon on the PVC on your M seven capsule, that's their achilles heel. The PBC drives out and it loses tension I think, or something happens to the and and then they. Lose I think if that was the case, it would sound like, yes, probably, I would think they lose high end, and this one's got plenty of high end, so that's not the issue. I think it is definitely a tube issue. But anyway, we'll say once I'm chuck and eachut and see what I get. So it's a true true what do you call it? You know, like endorsement? I guess just to give a last hurrah. But that eight one eight man. Well, what that tells me is the eight one eight is the is more of the Desert Island mic. You know, it's just so clean, unoffensive, smooth, full bandwidth, broad and just you know that that if I had to have one, and that's the one I'm going to have. That's why for a lot of home studio people it makes sense to. Have a mic like that. Yeah, But if you're a commercial studio or an insane person like ap, having a whole bunch of different vintage mics with different flavors is an also part of your job as a studio owners. You you want to have these different unique flavors and textures in your toolbox. But I would not want to have that be my only mic unless it just happened to be a really good match for your voice, you know, and that takes a well, that takes work, you know, and what's a good match well depends who you ask a different answers. But you know this is the twist and the whole thing, and this is what when Robot gave me his he's rating on these mics, I nearly fell over. I said, you wait, I don't believe I've rated that. The eight one eight down the bottom that was third three was my last choice. Yeah, yeah, And it's so weird because. Voice, Yeah four four was the four one four Yeah right. The last one's a four one four you being four. So I liked I liked the four one four over you did the eight one eight. Yeah. It had a little bit more bite, right, a little bit more cut. It was a little bit Yeah to me, it was warmer. It was all the good of the eight one eight with a little bit more good. It didn't seem to have any like I mean, it might have even been just a level thing like this could have been a dB hotter or whatever Andrew read at that time, because it wasn't the same read. Those two were so close. I was I was struggling between the two one and two. I had no trouble. When I met Martin from Austrian Audio when he came here promoting Austrian Audio and I went into Melbourne and caught up with him. We had a bit of a chat and I told him I had a C four and four E B and he said, oh, is that the brass capsule And I said no, it's the nylon C twelve and he's like, and it was like whatever. Since I got the eight one eight and I've got the EB and the nylon, I put them together. As you can hear in that file, they are so close. Yeah, you know, like everyone poo poos the nylon capsule, sell the four one four and kicks. And keep the warranty. But so the only thing I've ever done with the four one four was when I first got it, it started getting quiet and I sent it off and it just needed new capacitors. They just drive out and whatever, and it was like up to full speed. It's a great mic. I love it. And it's it's seen some seen some life. It's scratches. I mean four fourteens have always been desert island mics. They're like they got the extra polar pattern they're quiet, they're small, they get everywhere, they're they're like. They look cool. Yeah, they're kind of a cool looking mic. Yep. I mean my only my most expensive condenser mics when I started my studio were four fourteens, but I think they were. B U l s's. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, went that quite dark on b d us. I have, I have, I have a pair of Excel two's. I've never stood them up next to the eight one eight to see, but those are all like the new generation of oh yeah years. I think that whole sound of the the C foo one four, C four and four the C twelve ended with the EB, so you had the C twelve, then you had the C twelve A, and then you had the full one four EB and that was all kind of the same capsule. And then they jumped from from the EB and the sound changed. And if you look at the eight one eight, what they've done is they've gone back to the C twelve, So they would use the C twelve C twelve A to actually make their capsule and work on the sound of the eight one eight. And that makes sense because it sounds almost the same as A for one for EB. Just for selfish reasons, reasons I wish there was are you eighty seven AI and just to hear fits into that, but. And then and then another forty Yeah really yeah, I should have actually done ant one. That would have been funny as a control Yeah yeah. When it just like everyone like the you gotta be really careful mics to have a cheap ringer in there, because you know it might it. Might be kicked on. I've seen that happen with Mike preamps too. Like I remember back in the day it is either sound on sound or mixed at a like preamp shootout, and it was everything from like onboard Macy VLZ preamps to the Viprey right, And you wouldn't believe the points that that matter got. I mean, I mean you're talking about like a two hundred dollars you know, it's like the board itself is. Like three four hundred dollars, two or something. Six preamps in it or whatever, and then this one Viprey preamp that's like six thousand dollars, and like, you know, like it's just the same thing. You never think. I think it really does all mean to people listening that it absolutely doesn't matter what something costs. It matters how it sounds with your voice, you know, and how it works for you. And because it's like this is why commercial studios have a wide array of mics. First, they never sell any so they're constantly adding because you know, you want your website to have a very long list of mikes. You know, when they when someone's browsing for studios, they're not going to pick the one with seven kinds of mics. They're going to pick the one with twenty seven. Which is a double thing because two things happen there. Number One, you get the gig because you have a really long list of mics, right, and then people come in there and waste their time shooting mics out peng. Exactly, yeah, exactly, and then you charge for the second hour rest. You're right like, oh, would you like to actually get something done now that you like. You're going to do is yeah. But this is a really funny one though, because you know the Unka fell the ninety two point one three people have voted it as their favorite Simon Murphy, Maddy from Something Playground, and Mike Ayton. Two people voted it as their second favorite, which is Paul Baxter and Robbo No one gave it third place and fourth place Chris Gates, AJ, Matt Mackenzie, Smith, George and Robert. That was the most that that is the most expensive mic in the locker. There polarizing, we call that polarizing. People either liked it or thought it was the least good. You know, it's so fascinating. And then you look at the the second gefell, which was the nine to thirty art, so two people liked it, which was Robert and Chris Gates second place, but people gave it second place, Simon Murphy, Maddie from Sonic Playground and Mike Ayton. Third place for the m nine thirty art was Matt Mackenzie Smith, Pullbackxter, Mike Ayton, George and Robert. Actually, that's not right. I wonder if I wonder if they know those mikes particularly well, like they're in their collection and so they have an affinity for those mics, you know, they the sound of those mics is just really familiar. I don't think those goffellas are that common. As well as the art more than one which got the transformer okay, and then there's a nine thirty which is the Transformerist and then the one I've got, which is different again because it's like it has the PBC capsule, because it was like a limited there's one of I've got what there's eighty They just made eighty of those. It was like eighty of them that I've got one of eighty. That mine's number seven. I think. From me, I guess you could say it's a collector's mic. I would I would think that thing's worth more than. It probably is because it's so rare, and it's it's got different electronics in it and a different capsule to the normal nine thirty. I mean, how much do people pay for a PBC M A seven. I'll bet people I would say deafness for the caps. Because they're not being produced anymore period they are. They're still being made in Geffell, are they? But there must be particularly tricky guessing. That Sennheiser, who now own Noyman, probably by the M seven capsules from Geffel for their forty seven. That's my case. So a vintage, not a recreate. A recreates about four to five hundred dollars, but a vintage I'm seven capsule is worth in bad condition twelve hundred bucks to two thousand, three hundred dollars in. Good condition captures without the mics for the capsule. Yeah yeah, well I think. Go put a Chinese capsule in there, no one knows the difference, and then sell it. Well. I looked at the mics and I sort of did a rough scoot around to see what they were worth. And I think the a new ninety two point one is selling for about three and a half thousand US. I think the nine thirty no idea. I mean, for a new one, you're paying two thousand US, But I don't know for that one. I have no idea. Eight one to eight retail is whatever it is in America, which is about twelve hundred or something. And then the four one four EB I've seen them for like four and a half thousand, three and a half, four and a half out thousand. Yeah, I mean awesome. Yeah, well there you go. Yeah. So the conclusion is nothing matters, Yes, but it's so bizarre when you look at that and you go, oh my god. At one point no one picked the same mic as their favorite. It's just as it closed up towards the end. And I've got a few strugglers coming. In well, the numbers took over. Yeah, that's right, exactly, sort of had to and eventually, I suppose. But yeah, yeah, it's really interesting. Yeah, it was well worth doing. So I think the next one is once I get the new tube for the ninety two point one. I'm curious to see how that sounds. And I wouldn't actually mind doing an episode talking about getting someone on to talk about tubes, because there's still a few people out there. That'll be an interesting episode because it might be like, you know, hey, if you got it too, Mike, don't. You know what you should do. You should keep that recording and then when you put the new tube in, do another one, and let's compare that. I'd also like to run the which I might do before I put the new one in. I'm going to run the ninety two through the neve and then put the new tube in and run it through the neve because if that, if that self noise disappears because it was quite noisy, or at least reduces dramatically with a new tube, the combination of the ninety two point one and the Neve should be absolutely stellar. But Regen would pick him the pro audio suite and Austrian audio recorded using Source Connect, edited by Andrew Peters and mixed by Robo. Got your own audio issues, just ask Robbo dot com. Text record from George the Techin. Don't forget to subscribe to the show and join in the conversation on our Facebook group. To leave a comment, so just the topic or just say good day. Drop us a note at our website audio dot com.