🎙️ The OC818 and CC8 — why Robbo and AP love them
💡 What makes the Mojave M50 a hidden gem
💥 The big-name mics like the 416, U67 and beyond
🔬 How capsule design and manufacturing history still matter
📦 The surprising pros and cons of handheld condensers
🎤 And whether a kick drum mic could actually work for voice! If you’ve ever wondered what mic is “the one” for VO, this is the episode for you. A big shout out to our sponsors, Austrian Audio and Tri Booth. Both these companies are providers of QUALITY Audio Gear (we wouldn't partner with them unless they were), so please, if you're in the market for some new kit, do us a solid and check out their products, and be sure to tell em "Robbo, George, Robert, and AP sent you"... As a part of their generous support of our show, Tri Booth is offering $200 off a brand-new booth when you use the code TRIPAP200. So get onto their website now and secure your new booth... https://tribooth.com/ And if you're in the market for a new Mic or killer pair of headphones, check out Austrian Audio. They've got a great range of top-shelf gear.. https://austrian.audio/ We have launched a Patreon page in the hopes of being able to pay someone to help us get the show to more people and in turn help them with the same info we're sharing with you. If you aren't familiar with Patreon, it’s an easy way for those interested in our show to get exclusive content and updates before anyone else, along with a whole bunch of other "perks" just by contributing as little as $1 per month. Find out more here.. https://www.patreon.com/proaudiosuite George has created a page that is strictly for Pro Audio Suite listeners, so check it out for the latest discounts and offers for TPAS listeners. https://georgethe.tech/tpas If you haven't filled out our survey on what you'd like to hear on the show, you can do it here: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ZWT5BTD Join our Facebook page here: https://www.facebook.com/proaudiopodcast And the FB Group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/357898255543203 For everything else (including joining our mailing list for exclusive previews and other goodies), check out our website https://www.theproaudiosuite.com/ “When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional.” Hunter S Thompson
00:00:00
Y'all ready? Be history.
00:00:01
Get started.
00:00:01
Welcome.
00:00:02
Hi. Hi. Hi.
00:00:03
Hello, everyone. To the pro audio suite.
00:00:06
These guys are professional and motivated.
00:00:08
Please take the video. Stars.
00:00:10
George is a founder of Source Elements.
00:00:12
Robert Marshall,
00:00:12
international audio engineer Darren Robin
Roberts and global voice repeaters.
00:00:17
Thanks to tribal Austrian audio,
maging passionate elements.
00:00:21
George the tech wisdom and Rob and APIs
international demos.
00:00:25
To find out more about us.
00:00:26
Check the Proteas sweetcorn line up.
00:00:29
Ready? Here we go. I'm.
00:00:32
And welcome to another pro audio suite.
00:00:35
Thanks to try. Don't
forget the tribus memo.
00:00:38
It's the portable one
you can stick in your hand luggage.
00:00:41
And of course, Austrian
audio Viking passion herd.
00:00:45
Speaking of hearing things,
while I'm always hearing things.
00:00:47
Actually, to be quite honest.
But that's another story.
00:00:50
George, you've
00:00:51
been doing a webinar
which is going to be on your site as well,
00:00:54
which is,
the title being microphones for VoiceOver.
00:00:58
A lot of thought went into that one.
00:01:01
Our microphones for voiceover.
00:01:03
Yeah.
00:01:03
So it's a kind of, like what, webinar
on microphones or voiceover.
00:01:08
How original.
00:01:09
It's kind of funny
that we really never did any content
00:01:12
about microphones for voiceover.
00:01:13
It's just one of those pieces of content
that I've talked about ad nauseum
00:01:18
in so many formats,
but I never just sat down and demoed
00:01:21
with a few folks, folks
listening in and asking questions.
00:01:25
An array of mics.
00:01:26
And so that's what I did today.
00:01:28
And I got I started at the lowest end
with the Audio Technica 875 bar
00:01:33
and worked my way up to the Austrian
Audio OC 818,
00:01:38
which is in my collection anyway,
which is a small collection.
00:01:42
It's the
my most premium high end microphone.
00:01:45
So I just went along to hear the
the range.
00:01:47
And so and you guys thought,
hey, I've never really heard the Audio
00:01:51
Technica 875 R.
00:01:54
And so here it is. Gotcha.
00:01:56
So that is the that is
I and I went into my RODECaster Pro two.
00:02:00
I went into processing
and I disabled processing.
00:02:03
So this is what the eight 75 hour
sounds like.
00:02:07
It's about a fist in an inch maybe five, 4
00:02:11
or 5in off to my left,
00:02:14
pointing towards the corner of my mouth
and no pop screen.
00:02:18
Sounds pretty good.
00:02:19
Well, you're going to hear
some ambient room noise.
00:02:22
You're going to hear
some background noise.
00:02:23
Because again, I'm not I'm doing
zero processing.
00:02:26
You know, traditionally we process
00:02:27
and I have some expander and stuff
for gating on this.
00:02:31
This is just as is.
00:02:33
And I've always felt that
the EQ of this mic is really pleasing
00:02:37
and not a far cry
from something like a 416
00:02:41
making an extremely good budget stunt mic,
00:02:45
or a 416 or 41 six.
00:02:48
It seems pretty smooth.
00:02:50
Yeah, it doesn't seem too harsh.
00:02:51
Actually, it's not harsh.
00:02:53
I don't mind that
it's it's not quite as the cut of a 416,
00:02:58
but it doesn't have the harshness
that might come with that too.
00:03:01
It's pretty smooth.
00:03:03
And this is like what, $150
mic was in that ballpark?
00:03:07
Yeah, it's well under 200 US usually.
00:03:10
And what about directionality, George,
in terms of like if you were comparing it
00:03:14
to say, an ntg five or a 4160,
are they fairly similar.
00:03:18
Directionality.
00:03:19
Well, like if I start working off
axis one, you know,
00:03:22
it has a fair amount of
rejection of dust and sides.
00:03:27
It's a
00:03:27
it's a it's a line gradient microphone.
00:03:31
So it's not the same design as a 441 six.
00:03:35
It's not an RF mic and it's not a tube.
00:03:38
What do they call it, a tube interference.
00:03:41
No, it's a it has an interference tube,
but it sure looks interference to
00:03:46
this one does not have an interference
tube per se I don't think
00:03:50
because if you look at the side
you guys can see
00:03:53
it has a very open side slot
and then the capsules towards the back,
00:03:59
kind of like a traditional shotgun,
like what's what's the model again?
00:04:03
The on the 81, it's called the 8875 are.
00:04:08
So I think this is
a really great budget mic.
00:04:11
And I recommend it to a lot of people
00:04:13
with less than ideal rooms
because it picks up less room noise.
00:04:16
It's more directional, has a very pleasing
EQ, it has two weak points.
00:04:22
One of them is it's self
noise is elevated.
00:04:25
It's definitely noisier.
00:04:27
You put it up in a quiet room
and you're going to notice the difference
00:04:30
between this and really any other,
you know, popular condenser.
00:04:34
It's certainly much
higher than an anti one.
00:04:37
It's noticeably higher than a 416.
00:04:40
You pot it up and you hear a pretty
general kind of a white noise from this.
00:04:46
But it's a is a is it
the kind of noise that kind of goes away.
00:04:49
It's like a smooth consistent noise.
00:04:51
Or is it got like a peak.
00:04:53
No it's it's smooth.
00:04:55
It. Yeah.
00:04:55
It's a very smooth consistent white noise.
00:04:58
Very flat.
00:05:00
So I find objectionable.
00:05:02
Yeah. It's kind of like a,
00:05:04
you know, a tape recorder, real hiss,
you know, kind of thing.
00:05:07
Yeah. And so it's not objectionable.
00:05:10
The other thing that is a pro or con
and it totally depends on the user,
00:05:14
is a low end.
00:05:15
It has a built in roll off.
00:05:16
It's a pretty aggressive, low cut.
00:05:20
So it does not have a lot of bottom.
00:05:22
And so if you're going for a big bottom
sound, this is not the mic.
00:05:26
This is not what you want to use.
00:05:28
Aggressive in terms of the curve or
aggressive in terms of where it's cutting.
00:05:31
That's a good question.
00:05:33
And I don't know if I've ever seen a curve
or lot frequency plot of the mic.
00:05:38
Just listening to it when I throw it up to
a 41 six, there's a definite difference.
00:05:44
I mean, if you give me 30s
to switch to mics
00:05:48
while you guys talk amongst yourselves,
I'll play some elevator pretty quickly.
00:05:51
Go to a 416.
00:05:53
Well, here, I'll.
00:05:54
I'll give you some useless info.
00:05:55
I always feel like the side
open side grilles of this
00:05:59
Audio-Technica
microphone always look like it's broken.
00:06:02
And someone broke off the side of the mic.
00:06:05
That should have been there.
00:06:06
It it looks a little bit
like the side of whatever.
00:06:11
I think it's the PL
15 should have looked like.
00:06:14
But if you take the grille off the side of
it, even 15, you see that kind of thing.
00:06:20
But besides that, it is
it is probably one of the shortest,
00:06:24
I guess shotgun mics, like George said, is
is it a shotgun?
00:06:27
Yeah, I kind of agree with you on that.
00:06:29
It's a it's an art
from an industrial design perspective.
00:06:32
It's not premium looking.
It looks kind of.
00:06:35
Yeah.
00:06:36
Not very well made, but it's it's
such a is such an unbelievable budget
00:06:41
that I kind of don't worry about that
as much.
00:06:43
But yeah, you look at it,
you know like something.
00:06:45
What's up with that? I think I'm going
to break it if I pick it up.
00:06:50
Sorry.
00:06:50
My speakers on. Sorry about that.
00:06:52
All right, I'm going to lock this for.
00:06:55
Let's get it around the room.
Right. Georgia's boom. This.
00:06:57
Yeah.
00:06:58
Which one do you talking to?
00:07:01
Yeah, that's a bit with the three three,
but it looks like it's hundred 90 bucks.
00:07:06
Let's
see if we can do this without a cable.
00:07:08
That was worth telling you.
00:07:10
Well, in my webinar I actually do.
00:07:12
I do put them like I do
talking to the back of the 41 six
00:07:15
so people can hear that
it has a back lobe.
00:07:19
Okay. Yeah.
00:07:19
Because that's the thing about shotguns
00:07:21
and super cardioid is
they do have a back, a lobe.
00:07:24
They pick up a bit from the back.
00:07:27
And it's interesting because it's a pretty
much a full spectrum pickup.
00:07:30
It's not a super filtered sound.
00:07:33
It's just it's just lower.
00:07:34
It just it doesn't quite have the reach.
00:07:36
It's not it's right.
00:07:38
It's got to pick up.
00:07:38
But it's not the same gain
or reach as the front of it.
00:07:41
But it's it's kind of, figure eight ish.
00:07:45
Because if you think about it, a figure
eight also rejects
00:07:48
incredibly well from the side and. Right.
00:07:51
And all that energy,
you know, it's like squeezing a balloon.
00:07:54
The energy is somewhere else.
00:07:57
So now I'm on the 41 six
and my my partners
00:08:02
that sound, there's that sound,
but you can hear that low,
00:08:05
the bottom octave of the
that the 88, 75 doesn't hear.
00:08:09
Yeah. Right. Yeah.
00:08:10
So yeah.
00:08:12
From a mid to high from a mid
to high frequency
00:08:15
spectrum
I think the two are not too far off.
00:08:18
Crazy far from each other.
00:08:21
But the low end.
00:08:22
Yeah.
00:08:22
You don't get, you don't get the extension
for 16 on the 875 at all.
00:08:27
So, so it's not going to be for everybody.
00:08:29
And, but I think for a lot of people,
especially women or just people
00:08:33
that need something
00:08:34
that they can pull out of a bag
and record it in the back of a car or,
00:08:38
you know, or in their closet or something
that's a quick and dirty, get a decent
00:08:42
sounding video. It's
a really good, quick and dirty mic.
00:08:45
Yeah, it doesn't sound like it's
that hard to EQ that back end.
00:08:48
It depends on how steep that filter is
and if it really just right
00:08:52
rolls it off or just kills it,
00:08:54
you know, like you can't EQ back in
what's not there, you can fake it though.
00:08:59
I always find the the 41
six is very harsh on a sibilant voice.
00:09:05
If you were
00:09:05
sibilant,
you wouldn't want to be using a 41 six.
00:09:09
Having said that, I'm on.
00:09:11
The Austin Audio CC eight,
00:09:14
which also, heat, but I'm hearing
a bit of top end as well in this thing.
00:09:19
Lovely bottom.
00:09:19
I love you on that mic.
00:09:21
I really do. It's a great,
great microphone.
00:09:23
This one I'm
actually trying to look up with the 88.
00:09:26
It's kind of funny
you set that up in your room is like oh.
00:09:29
I'm just going to give this a try and
look at this become here's my six months.
00:09:33
Yeah, it's the ideal
00:09:35
podcast sound. That's right.
00:09:37
But the strange thing is
I took it on the road
00:09:39
that this was the mic
I used in the back of the car.
00:09:42
And, and
00:09:44
everyone was like, Holy shit,
that sounds amazing.
00:09:47
But it also is.
00:09:48
We've when we were chatting with, Kirk
from,
00:09:51
Austin Audio for Kurt Torrey,
00:09:54
he was saying about the voicing of this
microphone
00:09:57
is not dissimilar
to the one I used in the 18.
00:10:01
Oh, it does
have you can tell he's in the same family.
00:10:05
It's interesting.
00:10:06
I do like that, so I do you tend to go
even though this is a really, you know,
00:10:09
budget level, entry level mic,
they still do print and create,
00:10:14
you know, a polar pattern and a frequency
response diagram for that mic.
00:10:19
So you can get a real honest,
look at what's kind of interesting about
00:10:23
it is that other mics in its price point
for shotguns would be battery
00:10:28
powered shotguns for that, it's
true of those camera people.
00:10:32
Yeah. You know, like a preamp that is 48.
00:10:34
And this thing is like it's at that price
point for the I just need a shotgun mic.
00:10:38
And I don't give a crap about mikes
because I put all my money into my lens.
00:10:42
But it needs 48 Phantom,
which kind of assumes
00:10:45
a higher level of equipment is behind.
Sure.
00:10:48
It is very impressive.
00:10:49
It was bottom end isn't it? That mic?
Yeah, it's it's steep.
00:10:52
It's a steep roll off and their axle spec
is that's what the key.
00:10:57
What's, what's the NI point 100, 100 100.
00:11:00
Yeah.
00:11:00
Then it falls off a cliff.
00:11:02
Just getting started. Does. Yeah.
00:11:05
Yeah. That's key down that hill. Yeah.
00:11:08
You notice the
00:11:08
frequency response spec is 90 to 20 K.
00:11:13
So they can they basically consider
00:11:16
after 90 DB you don't use this month
nothing you're going to use.
00:11:20
Consider this for basically
put it on the top of the camera.
00:11:23
Totally. What it's for.
00:11:25
Yeah this is and it's short
for that reason too.
00:11:27
So it doesn't like it's short. Yeah, yeah.
00:11:30
Throw it on a video camera. It
lives in the bag.
00:11:33
Takes a beating.
00:11:34
It's for people that don't care
that much about, you know, the audio.
00:11:38
It's just a mic that lives on the camera.
00:11:39
That's why I just want a camera mic.
00:11:42
Yeah.
00:11:42
As it literally says, it's for energy
and e r or FP.
00:11:46
What's FP?
00:11:47
I know what NGO is, but what's FP
audio acquisition.
00:11:50
Oh it's like field production I guess.
00:11:54
Yeah I yeah I just didn't
expect it to be as a not
00:11:58
as pleasing of a microphone on a voice
as it was because I didn't.
00:12:02
Is it just way.
00:12:03
Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:04
It was a total surprise and I don't
remember where I first discovered the mic.
00:12:08
I don't remember where it came from.
00:12:10
It's just been I've had the mic forever
and it's just been around.
00:12:13
So yeah, it's, it's
00:12:14
a, it's a very commonly recommended mic
for me at this point when someone's on a,
00:12:18
again on a budget
or they already have a 41, 6 or 95
00:12:23
and they want to have an ultra budget mic
for not being worried about being lost.
00:12:28
Yeah.
00:12:29
In the broken or damaged, actually,
speaking of the 41
00:12:33
six though, and we we talked about this
before we started recording.
00:12:37
When we did the comparison years ago
with a whole bunch of mics.
00:12:40
In fact, the box I had here
and we put the anti one,
00:12:44
the rode into one up against the 41 six
00:12:47
and they were so close it was ridiculous.
00:12:51
Yeah. Like it was so shocking.
00:12:53
It was crazy.
00:12:54
But yeah.
00:12:55
But but I'm I'm getting a similar vibe
00:12:57
of a similar situation
because I remember thinking how bizarre
00:13:00
it was that this large diaphragm like
sounds like a small diaphragm shotgun mic.
00:13:05
And then you're saying the same thing
about the eight in the eight when they
00:13:09
it could not be more different
in their construction.
00:13:12
Yeah, I've just been recently.
00:13:14
It's weird
diving into watching this extremely long,
00:13:18
video tour of general like,
00:13:22
I don't know if you guys have seen it.
00:13:23
They get some production expert
00:13:24
or what's one of those
very popular YouTube channels?
00:13:28
I think is it produced like a pro?
00:13:29
Is it produced like a pro?
00:13:30
Yeah, I think so.
00:13:31
It's like,
is it Warren Hewitt going to show you it.
00:13:34
Yeah.
00:13:34
It's it's it's fun because it's, you know,
they go to the museum,
00:13:38
there's like a basement room,
you know, with all the junk.
00:13:41
Oh, yeah. Yeah, every,
every manufacturer has their own museum.
00:13:44
It's like, sure has that too.
00:13:46
Yeah, but but that's always been
their design philosophy is doesn't matter
00:13:50
how big or small
the speaker is, has the same voice.
00:13:54
It's true is
00:13:55
one which is very a big deal with channel
EQ, right.
00:13:58
Okay.
00:13:59
I can definitely say that about like
the number all the way up to the big boys.
00:14:03
Of course, as you go bigger, they
get louder and they have more low end.
00:14:07
Other than that, voices,
they sound extremely similar, like I can
00:14:11
I can attest to that because, you know,
when I was another country,
00:14:17
they had big three way
gentle acts that had the,
00:14:20
I forget what the exact model was,
but like 18 inch woofers.
00:14:24
And then we would spend a lot of our time
on the ten 30s,
00:14:27
and it just always felt like just the low
end kept on going down and down.
00:14:32
But the top end was the same.
00:14:34
Always like it just felt. It's funny.
00:14:37
Yeah.
00:14:38
Because I've got a pair of, 18 tens here,
00:14:41
which is the three inch, three inch,
00:14:44
with three cast aluminum and a tweeter
chassis, cast aluminum.
00:14:48
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
that that you could throw them downstairs.
00:14:50
I think that'd be fun.
00:14:51
But, it's amazing when you when you fire
those things up, you
00:14:55
give them a bit of welly.
00:14:57
They're really, really loud.
00:14:59
I mean, there's two amplifiers in.
00:15:01
Yeah, they're all by tens.
00:15:02
That's a big. Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:04
And, I've had people in here
come in to record.
00:15:06
I did some guys recording some music,
doing some vocals and stuff in here,
00:15:11
and we used the little Gentle Lakes
as opposed to the big, Yamaha's.
00:15:15
They were like, oh, I'm like, is it okay?
00:15:17
Is that coming out of those? My
00:15:19
I think our great general likes
are the 1029.
00:15:22
So if you know of those and those, those,
you could probably squash
00:15:26
a pair of 80 tens with in terms of build,
00:15:30
they're like yeah.
00:15:31
But again
I think I buy is that a five inch woofer.
00:15:35
It's like a five inch woofer
with a tweeter.
00:15:37
And they have a metal grill
over the tweeter
00:15:39
and a metal grill over the woofer,
and there's a volume on it,
00:15:42
and the whole thing is just like,
you could just build a house out of them.
00:15:47
Yeah. Right.
00:15:48
Insane.
00:15:49
And, and then are they square
or are they the square ones?
00:15:52
They're they're square.
00:15:53
They're a little bit
they got some angles to them,
00:15:54
but they're basically just blocks.
00:15:57
But yeah, you throw a subwoofer on them.
00:15:59
Boom.
00:16:01
Yeah. Have a great sounding setup.
00:16:03
Yeah. Genetics are amazing.
00:16:04
They're beautiful speakers,
that's for sure.
00:16:07
Back to microphones.
00:16:08
I am back to my if you had listened,
you could have an NC one
00:16:15
and you could have a kid
00:16:18
and you'd have the large diaphragm sound
00:16:20
from the small diaphragm, the small.
00:16:23
Yeah.
00:16:24
Swap them around. Yeah.
00:16:27
I don't know why I don't want to,
but sure, you could,
00:16:30
you could.
00:16:31
This is really a microphone.
00:16:32
Manufacturers don't have the same idea
about mic design as general,
00:16:36
like does about monitor design.
00:16:38
You know, general like has a very distinct
sound curve that they've established
00:16:42
that's generally considered
to be very honest, I guess very flat.
00:16:48
And and you know, they that's their thing.
00:16:51
Whereas if you made a microphone,
00:16:53
the thing about microphones
is they're different.
00:16:54
You don't have seven different sizes
of mic with the same voicing.
00:16:58
That is a different I think yes and no.
00:17:00
So I think if you look at the company
that actually so the
00:17:04
the company that bought Austin Audio
and the company that they were before
00:17:08
that was be in K mikes
and those were test microphones.
00:17:13
And yes, every test microphone you want,
it's like supposed to be flat in the same
00:17:17
in truth. Right.
00:17:17
And that's kind of what you're looking for
00:17:19
from a pair of monitors is here's
our version of the truth
00:17:22
from and Jen like is consistent like
they tell the same story all the time.
00:17:27
But then when you look at microphones,
especially microphones for music
00:17:31
and kind of also for voice over,
you are looking for a particular
00:17:36
paintbrush, one that works well with your
instrument, your voice, whatever it is.
00:17:40
And you are looking for different sounds.
00:17:43
And I think that's why you see some.
00:17:45
If not, there would be like, you know,
ten microphones out there for all of you,
00:17:50
I don't know.
00:17:51
Yeah. True.
00:17:52
That's true.
00:17:52
Yeah. He's a he's one to throw at you.
00:17:55
If channel EQ made headphones
would they sound like the Austrian Audio
00:17:59
Iix headphones?
00:18:03
Surprisingly gentle.
00:18:04
Like, doesn't make headphones. Isn't it?
00:18:06
Yeah. Like, yeah it is.
00:18:08
It is interesting
what they do choose not to make,
00:18:11
you know, they haven't gone
the focal route, which is
00:18:14
of course,
we make a $3 pair of headphones.
00:18:19
Yeah.
00:18:19
I in fact, I was, I was
they were consistent.
00:18:21
That is being expensive.
00:18:24
Yeah.
00:18:24
I was at the I was at the repair shop
where my friend does all the Avalon stuff.
00:18:29
I was picking up two, seven,
30 sevens to sell for one voice actor
00:18:34
dropping off three Avalon for,
for an agency to be,
00:18:38
you know, benched, tuned, calibrated
so I could sell them.
00:18:42
I'm gonna have.
00:18:43
Those were the Avalon preamps. Those.
00:18:45
Those were the straight preamps,
not the tens.
00:18:48
Like. Yeah.
00:18:49
All together, I have three, seven,
three sevens and 220, 22.
00:18:53
The 2020 twos are the two channels.
00:18:56
Solid state,
you know, external power supply,
00:19:01
very high high fidelity preamps.
00:19:03
Yeah.
00:19:04
But I was there
and he, had a had a set of vocal
00:19:09
utopias with a broken yoke.
00:19:12
So, you know, the yoke that
the cup supported inside your headphone.
00:19:17
Yeah. Carbon fiber.
00:19:19
He said the part is $900.
00:19:24
Oh my gosh, I brought you,
00:19:27
crazy.
00:19:29
That's unnecessary. Yeah.
00:19:32
Yeah, it's that's formula one. It is.
00:19:34
It is like the F1 of headphones is true.
00:19:37
Like the really no budget, you know.
00:19:39
So maybe these things have gone
beyond Stax is what you're telling me.
00:19:42
So Cal has, like, taken the $5 head
speaker and taken it to the next level.
00:19:49
Yeah.
00:19:49
I mean,
00:19:49
I don't know what
the top of the line for cars are,
00:19:52
because there seems to be no limit as to
how much you can price a headphone for.
00:19:56
Just like there seems to be no limit
to how much you can price a car for
00:20:00
at this point.
00:20:01
And people still sell,
they still sell out.
00:20:03
So, you know, it
just every time I hear about more high end
00:20:07
gear and cars and everything,
I just realize there's just that
00:20:10
many more people that can afford
these cars than there used to be.
00:20:14
Which is weird.
00:20:16
That's why there's a lot more people
that can't afford these.
00:20:18
So those are
those are focal utopias, right?
00:20:21
The ones that I saw on the bench
were a full utopias, right?
00:20:25
They had carbon.
Those are $5 microphone.
00:20:27
So you're telling me that the yoke is one
fifth of the price?
00:20:30
Headphones. Sorry. Headphones.
00:20:31
Well,
you could probably use them as a mic too.
00:20:33
But yeah
it probably it's a $5 headphone.
00:20:36
Yeah. Yeah yeah.
00:20:37
Exactly.
00:20:38
And you're telling me
that one of the yokes
00:20:41
is a fifth of the price of that thing?
00:20:44
That's right.
00:20:45
Well,
I have a whole nother story to talk about
00:20:47
from that same shop
that might be in another episode.
00:20:50
Doing a meanwhile back on microphones.
00:20:52
Yeah, yeah. That's.
00:20:53
So when are we gonna start using drum
microphones for for voiceover I think
00:20:58
I think the secret hidden mic
from for voiceover is D1 112.
00:21:03
I do get to say 112.
00:21:05
You knew it was used to say the D1 12.
00:21:08
Well think about it. It's got that.
00:21:09
It's got that mid frequency pop
for all your heavy metal kick drums
00:21:13
to pop through. Right.
00:21:15
And it's got the bass to it
and it's like you know
00:21:19
kick mikes off and do work well for voice.
00:21:21
You know you have your PL 20
and your and buyer
00:21:26
M 88 and mikes that work on kick drums.
00:21:29
Workhorse die for silver.
You're an innovator Robert.
00:21:31
You really are aiming the RC 20. Yeah.
00:21:34
Do you need a cloudlifter
or something for a D1 12?
00:21:37
Yeah. PL 2320. Same Mike.
00:21:39
Yeah. Same mic.
00:21:41
So now we're on the M50, so you guys
may not be too aware of this company.
00:21:45
It's a small U.S
company based in LA called Mojave.
00:21:50
It's been around a while.
00:21:51
The Mike SA designed by David Royer,
David Royer of the Royer
00:21:56
Microphone Company, which normally makes
you known for ribbon and that's right.
00:22:01
That's their. Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:02
But he also designs the mikes for Mojave.
00:22:04
So they're like sister companies.
00:22:07
And and Royer Ribbon
mikes are really one of the better ribbon
00:22:11
like a EAA and Royer kind of make the
some of the top end ribbon.
00:22:15
They're the ones that everybody compares
to exactly the, the ones used in on drum
00:22:20
overheads and orchestras
and you know they're fantastic. Sam.
00:22:25
Fantastic mikes.
00:22:27
It's like that.
00:22:27
So anyway but yeah yeah the M50
00:22:30
is another great sounding
large diaphragm contender.
00:22:34
It's, it's
00:22:36
it's very pleasing.
00:22:38
It's not harsh, it's smooth.
00:22:41
It's got the full spectrum.
00:22:42
There's no low cut switches
or anything on this mic.
00:22:44
So, you know,
if you have a rumble problem, these mics
00:22:48
do a lovely job
of picking out rumble and low frequency.
00:22:51
But I demonstrated that in my booth
00:22:53
and I was letting people see
and hear the room tone.
00:22:56
And we were looking at the Rmse meter
on Twisted wave, and,
00:23:00
this one's room tone measured
the highest compared to the 91
00:23:05
and the 41 six,
00:23:06
because simply
it just picks up more low frequency input.
00:23:11
And so the more low frequency sensitivity
a mic is going to have, the higher
00:23:16
your metering is going to reflect
on your room tone measurement.
00:23:20
This is why we get so caught up
in talking about room tone.
00:23:23
And people like,
I want to get a lower than a -60 DB.
00:23:27
So, you know, room tone in my studio
and I'm like, yeah, you have to consider
00:23:32
the whole frequency spectrum
and the low end is the hardest to control.
00:23:36
So I tell people, look, for a lot of folks
just applying a high pass
00:23:41
filter is going to be an adequate
treatment to that issue
00:23:45
is that you can just leave it alone
and let your engineer take care of it.
00:23:48
Yeah, or leave it alone.
00:23:50
If the engineer doesn't care
what your meter say,
00:23:52
which a professional doesn't care
what the meter say.
00:23:54
They only care
about mixing with your eyes.
00:23:56
Yeah. Yes.
00:23:57
They don't care what the meter say.
00:23:59
But that's the problem.
00:24:00
When there's a
there's this notion that some
00:24:05
the -60 has become the golden number
for room tone.
00:24:08
And it's because of it.
00:24:10
Audio book companies.
00:24:11
Yeah.
00:24:12
They, they've really put the fear of God
into all these voiceover people.
00:24:16
Right.
00:24:16
Because they put so much burden
of engineering onto the voiceover person.
00:24:20
Right?
00:24:21
Yep. Now interestingly,
when I put up my 41 six in the booth
00:24:25
and I was recording with peaks
at just about under zero because I was,
00:24:28
I was using the passport
Vo with the compressor.
00:24:31
So I had the gain up pretty hot and
I was going right up to just about zero.
00:24:35
It's I was getting about -60 on the meter
on the 41 six.
00:24:40
So coincidence I don't know.
00:24:43
But that's just where that Mike tends
to meter
00:24:47
out on the room tone,
you know, on the self noise.
00:24:50
So, you know, it's just
what does it sound like?
00:24:53
That's what matters.
00:24:55
Remember that, right?
00:24:56
Yeah, I'd say I used to.
00:24:59
Yeah, I'd say this Mojave seems to have
a very smooth top end to it.
00:25:04
Like, from what I can tell, not not much.
00:25:08
I use one of those.
00:25:09
Yeah, I use one of those
00:25:10
probably 15 years ago, mate of mine
who had a studio when he for a session,
00:25:14
he just bought that microphone
or it may have been the, brother.
00:25:18
So the M50 is their
is their entry point mic.
00:25:22
So they wanted to come out with something
a little bit more,
00:25:26
you know, cost effective.
00:25:27
So this one entry point
being 500 bucks right.
00:25:30
Entry point being 5 to $600 I think it
actually went up in price a little bit.
00:25:35
The Ma
00:25:36
200 201
and the 301 and that they have a 301 FET.
00:25:41
That's more likely the mic you're
probably using.
00:25:44
I don't know if you remember
if it was a tube or a fat mic.
00:25:46
Andrew.
00:25:48
It was a fit and I know
00:25:50
it was actually an entry level one
because the guy that was using it,
00:25:53
he said, look, this
this was actually really cheap.
00:25:55
And he said, it sounds fantastic. Yeah.
00:25:57
So it may have been when this came out
or may have been the 201,
00:26:00
which is, which was probably
in a similar price point to this.
00:26:03
Was that that this one was
when it came out.
00:26:06
Yeah. And yeah, they're,
they're all great.
00:26:09
You know, the thing about mics is it
00:26:10
how does it sound
and what's the quality control like.
00:26:13
Right. Like these mics are hand-built.
00:26:16
The to a degree
00:26:18
the capsule on
00:26:19
the M50 arguably
is probably not a hand-built capsule.
00:26:22
I don't know how they source
the capsule on this.
00:26:24
I was going to say like,
are they making their own or are they,
00:26:29
at this price point for the M50?
00:26:30
I'd have to find out.
00:26:32
I have to ask, I don't know, I don't want
to I don't want to assume anything.
00:26:36
But the, the QC is a big part of it, too.
00:26:40
The quality control,
David really does bench heavy
00:26:42
mic himself,
you know, before it walks out of the door,
00:26:46
he puts it up, he listens to it,
he signs off and calibrates it.
00:26:51
And that's a big deal for there
still to be the mic designer himself.
00:26:54
His ears
go on that mic before goes out the door.
00:26:57
I think that that means a lot.
00:26:59
Pretty rare these days.
00:27:00
And what are you to say
the price point was for that?
00:27:01
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for 99 for a while.
00:27:04
The last I checked it was closer to five.
00:27:06
It was closer to 60.
I'm I'm looking at one right now.
00:27:09
That's five and a quarter.
00:27:11
That's pretty reasonable still.
00:27:13
And and then it looks like the map is 650,
which is not bad.
00:27:17
That's okay. Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:19
And then I'm going back to my last train.
00:27:21
Audio.
00:27:21
Oh. See 707.
00:27:24
Is that what the, condenser handheld is?
00:27:26
Yeah. 707 is it.
00:27:27
This thing has a pod. Go.
00:27:30
Yeah, well, this has an audio.
00:27:32
Q And I'm going to I'm going
to turn off my processing, on this mic.
00:27:36
It just it just has the, that stage like
it just dropped the low end kind of thing.
00:27:40
Yeah.
00:27:41
So this is, it seems that someone's going
to be because you're not too close to it.
00:27:44
Right? Right.
00:27:46
Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:47
This is like flat
and it has this mid-range punch.
00:27:52
There's like a little bit of a range
00:27:55
tent in the, in
the curve, which they said is intentional.
00:27:59
I mean, that was
00:28:01
I don't, you know, I haven't done live
sound in so long, so I don't remember
00:28:04
the way I would EQ my handheld
00:28:05
mics a lot,
but apparently there's always needing to.
00:28:10
This is a frequency range
that's desirable in a live sound mic,
00:28:13
because you're trying to get the voice
to kind of
00:28:16
elevate and lift
above the mud of the guitars and stuff.
00:28:19
So I guess that makes sense.
00:28:22
But in a vacuum, when it's just voice,
no music, no nothing, I the EQ,
00:28:27
this is not my favorite.
00:28:28
And so I just, I kind of smooth out
what's what's the model of that one again.
00:28:33
Oh see 707 so this guy is sounds right.
00:28:38
Sorry about that. Yeah.
00:28:39
Oh see 707
and the reason I got them to send me
00:28:42
this mic was
I really wanted to see what would be.
00:28:47
I wouldn't mind taking it to
what could be the ultimate travel mic.
00:28:51
You want a mic
that has a built in plosive pop filter
00:28:53
you want to might as a building
shock mount, you want to might.
00:28:57
It has a really nice pickup,
00:28:58
but isn't overly sensitive to low
frequency and rumble.
00:29:02
These are all things that I think of us
as a good travel Mike.
00:29:05
So basically the key that Andrew has,
00:29:09
but without the Q curve of the 707.
00:29:13
So if they made a mic, that was the eight,
but the curve, the sound of the car
00:29:19
in the shock mount
and the plosive pop production
00:29:23
and out of the OC 707 that could be
could be an ultimate portable mic.
00:29:27
I don't. There you go. That's my theory.
00:29:29
Yeah, yeah,
00:29:30
I, I think I think they were going
for a bit of an sm57 thing with that, like
00:29:36
in terms of its curve IQ.
00:29:38
So yeah, so,
so like like a, like a 57 looking at it,
00:29:43
it's got a bump rated around.
00:29:45
It looks like
it's probably like to starting at two K
00:29:49
and ending at around
ten K peaking at five K.
00:29:53
It's got a bump.
00:29:55
Oh yeah.
00:29:56
And then before that
it's pretty damn flat.
00:29:59
Except it you can ski down the hill
00:30:02
at around 157.
00:30:06
It kind of drops off quick.
00:30:08
And then we look at the Austrian.
00:30:09
Audio 707 airliner.
00:30:13
Sam Andrew. Got it, I got it.
00:30:16
Yeah, I was okay.
00:30:18
There we go.
00:30:18
Okay, so the Austrian audio flatter,
smoother, like like less jagged.
00:30:23
But it's got a bump that peaks out right
around four and a half.
00:30:27
K starts at one and a half K,
00:30:32
and then it has a little
00:30:33
extra bump rated around 12 K. So.
00:30:37
But as far as that, that five k bump
00:30:40
in that area that the 57 has,
the 707 has it.
00:30:44
And then similarly the 707 is pretty flat
from one k backwards.
00:30:48
But then you get to 100Hz and
00:30:51
falls off the cliff, I think
00:30:53
I think that's very characteristic
of a stage handheld Mike.
00:30:57
Yeah.
00:30:58
The 707 got a really interesting
basket though because it's at
00:31:01
the back of the basket is open. Yeah.
00:31:05
And they probably do that
as you get better smoother off axis
00:31:08
rejection I'm sure. Yeah.
00:31:11
A lot of the sounds of microphones.
00:31:13
Is it the sound of what's in front of it.
00:31:15
It's the sound of what's
not in front of it and how it rejects it
00:31:19
without making that stuff
sound bad, like the off axis rejection.
00:31:24
If it sounds good, even though it's off
00:31:26
axis, the idea is that you want
the sound to attenuate in volume,
00:31:30
but what you don't want is the off axis
sound to attenuate in some crazy way.
00:31:34
So that all you hear
is all the high end crappy stuff.
00:31:38
You know, that's like crappy, like bleed.
00:31:40
But if it's just, hey,
a little extra volume of that stuff, it's
00:31:43
a lot more manageable on stage
than every time I pull the singer up.
00:31:47
I get all of the symbols in a harsh,
nasty way.
00:31:51
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:52
So, George, where can people go to your
webinar to hear all these microphones?
00:31:57
Well, have we heard the,
where would they find?
00:31:59
We heard the 818 up or where we go.
00:32:01
Well, you've been listening
to one whole episode.
00:32:04
Oh, yeah.
00:32:05
So that's.
00:32:06
Yeah,
00:32:08
I wanted to I wanted to try to get the
I guess I didn't notice or,
00:32:12
like like when you switched from the, M50
to the 818, I was, I was, I was going to.
00:32:17
That's kind of curious about that.
Don't throw it.
00:32:19
Oh, do you want to hear that? Yeah.
Yeah yeah, yeah.
00:32:22
All right.
00:32:22
Give me, give me 20s
to walk into the booth and grab it.
00:32:26
And do you know the interesting thing
that I find with the 818,
00:32:29
I did a comparison with, for one for eBay.
00:32:34
Even though it's the nylon capsule
which everyone get is nylon capsule.
00:32:37
Get the brass capsule.
00:32:39
I don't
I don't think is the brass capsule,
00:32:42
in my opinion,
is that much different to the nylon one.
00:32:46
The fact that people actually
sent them off repair came back
00:32:48
with a vinyl capsule
and they didn't know, kind of.
00:32:52
Yeah. Agrees with that, that comment.
00:32:54
But anyway, I did it
00:32:55
and it was really interesting
because the 818 on the, for one for web,
00:33:01
were very similar.
00:33:02
You just you could just hear the 414
was just a bit dull in comparison, but
00:33:07
they certainly were in the same ballpark
and same same design.
00:33:11
Obviously there's the they are, the K 12.
00:33:14
I mean, even the name of the capsules
are pretty similar.
00:33:18
What does it like the C k 12 scale
1212 and c k 12.
00:33:22
Yeah yeah yeah.
00:33:24
So so they, they were very honest about it
I think.
00:33:27
Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:28
Because it was the K 12 capsule.
00:33:29
They were,
they were trying to make a c k 12.
00:33:31
That was easier to manufacture I think.
00:33:35
Yeah George has the best handheld 818.
00:33:39
Yeah I just
00:33:42
I don't feel like I'm
threading the shock now.
00:33:43
Right now for the other mic,
but yeah this is now the 818,
00:33:47
hanging
roughly in the same place as the M50.
00:33:51
I'm holding it by my hand and
00:33:52
it's on cardioid,
it's on flat and it's no pad.
00:33:56
So that's that's what that might sounds
like with nothing going on.
00:34:00
Just the mic itself. No processing.
00:34:03
There may be some post-processing,
00:34:05
you know, on the mics of the show
here a little bit, but that's it.
00:34:09
That's the 818.
00:34:10
So it is a different it's
a different sound than the M50 isn't it.
00:34:14
And it's officially
00:34:15
my favorite voice over mic
I love it trying to recall that M50 now.
00:34:19
And do you guys have any thoughts on
what the differences were or
00:34:23
are you going to put that 50 back up
there? George.
00:34:25
Looks like there's the M50.
00:34:27
Now I'm back on the M3.
00:34:29
Okay.
00:34:29
So some more top end
I think maybe 50 is a little bit
00:34:32
more quote unquote hi fi or disco smile.
00:34:37
Yeah.
00:34:38
Yeah yeah. It sounds like it's more to me.
00:34:41
Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:42
And the A1 eight is a little bit
more flat, a little bit more honest.
00:34:47
You know just different
I think I like the 818 better
00:34:50
when they sound like a better better
kind of
00:34:54
balance to it.
00:34:56
But they are a nice mike.
00:34:57
They I love it.
00:34:59
They're very nice.
00:35:00
In fact I just checked I just checked
my CCI and I've got a six, 60
00:35:06
highpass 000.
00:35:07
You flip the switch on it
for the 60 high pass.
00:35:10
Yeah. It was, it was on there.
00:35:11
I actually had it flicked.
00:35:13
I think it does
the tour from the sentence work
00:35:16
to flip that switch.
00:35:19
That's one of the.
00:35:19
It's one of those cars thing.
00:35:22
Yeah yeah yeah yeah. There you go.
00:35:26
Well there you go.
00:35:27
Masterclass in microphones.
00:35:29
Yeah exactly.
00:35:30
At the mi 50 voicing
is really there's sort of like this thing
00:35:34
I think with voicing there's
00:35:37
when you're,
when you're new to voice over or not.
00:35:39
Not new to voiceover.
00:35:40
Really new to voice recording
or even audio engineering.
00:35:44
You know in your musician
a mike that sounds more exciting
00:35:48
is going to sell better.
00:35:50
It just if it's got a little bit
more brightness, a little more cut,
00:35:53
it's just that's what people want to hear.
00:35:55
Just like with headphones, if it's got a
little bit more top end, it's more sizzle.
00:35:59
It's just
the sizzle is what people look for.
00:36:01
But when you become more, your taste
improves.
00:36:04
You know, when you're hearing the fine
wines, you know what I mean?
00:36:08
You notice those. You don't, you don't.
00:36:11
You're not fooled by things that color
the sound to sell the mic.
00:36:17
And this makes
it sound like I'm cheapening the M50.
00:36:20
I'm really not.
00:36:21
But they're an understanding the market
for that, Mike, is entry point.
00:36:25
And I would say
the equivalent statement is like,
00:36:28
if you go to Best Buy or whatever
and you go check out your stereo systems
00:36:31
and you just buy it based on
like which one has more low end.
00:36:34
Yeah. Which one's got most.
00:36:35
But you're not really getting the better
sound.
00:36:38
Yeah,
yeah. It's just like you're just. Yeah.
00:36:40
Oh, I'm more impressed.
00:36:42
You know, like
which car engine is louder or something.
00:36:45
But what we care about more is like,
how equable is that, Mike?
00:36:48
Can it be.
00:36:49
Can I get everything I need out of that?
Mike?
00:36:51
Are all the frequencies there? That's.
00:36:54
And and and in a smooth way.
00:36:57
Like, they're not like some jagged thing.
00:36:59
So that when I pop this frequency area up,
I get my jagged mouth.
00:37:04
Weird becomes even more weird.
00:37:06
Yeah.
00:37:07
Like if I add a four kilohertz bump
00:37:12
and that also going to make, like this
really jagged tooth stick out, you know,
00:37:16
because there's like a right bump
in the like, you know,
00:37:19
that's why the smoother
the response is better.
00:37:21
We get one DB there. Derivation
00:37:25
plus or minus.
00:37:26
You know as you add more and more boost,
it's going to stand out even more.
00:37:29
It's going to just really jump out of.
Yeah.
00:37:31
So and that's and that's
why one of the funny things that's like,
00:37:34
you know, ribbon mikes,
they're lower output.
00:37:37
They tend to be noisier.
00:37:39
They tend to not have as much high end.
00:37:41
But one thing I can say about ribbon
mikes, very often
00:37:44
they take two EQ extremely well. Yeah.
00:37:47
And they sound frequencies missing.
00:37:49
There's no frequencies missing
and there's no frequencies
00:37:53
artificially.
00:37:54
They don't tend to be like smoother
and they just sort of sound.
00:37:58
They have a natural almost
00:38:00
a boringness to them is yes, the problem.
00:38:03
Road actually release that into your
you know that their ribbon might.
00:38:07
Oh yeah.
00:38:07
I don't know whatever happened to it.
00:38:08
I don't think they pushed it very hard
00:38:10
and it kind of sat on a few shelves
in music stores, I guess.
00:38:13
But I always wanted to try,
00:38:15
wanted to see what it was like,
because what I read was,
00:38:18
unlike most ribbon mics,
this one was actually quite
00:38:21
hyped in the top end,
which is ultra ribbon possible.
00:38:25
They must have just tuned it well,
and it's also like, how do you do that?
00:38:29
In a way, it's
00:38:29
like how you tension the ribbon and stuff,
because I believe that ribbon mikes,
00:38:34
you know, like, okay, condenser
mikes have a lot of electronics in them.
00:38:40
Ribbon mikes tend not to
00:38:42
they're usually a transformer, a magnet,
and a ribbon for the most part.
00:38:47
Yeah.
00:38:48
And similar
with the with a dynamic moving coil.
00:38:51
Mike, their coil diaphragm,
00:38:54
a transformer quite often.
00:38:57
I don't know how many, in fact, are there
many transformer less dynamic mikes?
00:39:01
I don't even know if there are.
00:39:04
So they, they just tend to have less
going on with them.
00:39:07
But it does hearken back to
when we were talking to,
00:39:12
Derek at Vanguard,
and the thing that he kept on going back
00:39:15
to, the biggest difference
is the voicing of the capsule.
00:39:18
It's true what a fine art that is voicing.
00:39:20
Absolutely.
00:39:21
You know, the electronics
are going to make your difference
00:39:23
with the noise floor and that stuff,
but the sound of it is going to be,
00:39:26
I guess, a lot to do with the, the capsule
00:39:30
and the basket.
00:39:32
True.
00:39:33
Here's a question for you,
George and Robert in fact.
00:39:37
And really, really,
00:39:39
if there was no budget, you didn't
have to worry about being spendy or not.
00:39:43
What microphone do you think
would be the best one for a voice.
00:39:47
And we'll won't say.
00:39:48
I reckon it depends on the voice
because I like is it in studios here
00:39:53
that you're not thinking
about traveling or anything.
00:39:54
Just like what's the best thing
like given a given the right
00:39:57
environment, the right, you know,
a good proper studio environment?
00:40:00
Oh man, I like it.
00:40:02
Use 67 I love it, I love the 67,
00:40:07
if you weren't sure and
and you had an unlimited budget.
00:40:09
I'll be honest,
the mic I would probably pick is A416,
00:40:13
because it's the sound that people expect
for voiceover.
00:40:16
Yeah, for voiceover.
Yeah, yeah. It's true.
00:40:19
If you if you're not sure, if you've got
no idea 41 six and you can't go wrong.
00:40:23
It's true.
00:40:24
Okay.
00:40:25
I would agree that the 41 six probably
for most projects, especially broadcast
00:40:29
oriented commercials
and things like that, it's
00:40:33
just going to get you there quicker
without it.
00:40:34
Sounds familiar.
00:40:36
This is the way I say
it just sounds familiar.
00:40:38
I do think like a really nice.
00:40:41
Yeah.
00:40:42
Like I go to the best mic, you know,
they I've ever recorded on is an original
00:40:47
use 67 and it's like, you know like
first time you smoked pot or something.
00:40:52
I've never smoked pot.
00:40:54
Oh. I feel think I should try it.
00:40:57
I highly recommend it.
00:40:58
And the 60.
00:41:01
You hear the mic later and throw up.
00:41:03
Right. It does it.
00:41:06
Well, I'm lucky
00:41:08
because I got to use and hear that
Mike quite a bit with David Kay.
00:41:12
And the reason we stopped using
it was just purely
00:41:14
just this persnickety
nature of those mikes.
00:41:18
And yeah,
that Peluso PS 67 was a good enough stand
00:41:22
in that
that that Mike took over his daily driver.
00:41:26
So he still has one use 67 in the closet.
00:41:30
You know, it sounds great.
00:41:32
My two favorite mikes that I use that I
if I could only have
00:41:38
one, if I could only have one microphone
I think it would be an eight one.
00:41:41
I, I was a great, versatile.
00:41:43
And I'm not saying that
because like we always say Austrian
00:41:47
audio sponsored this show,
but I'm not saying because of that.
00:41:49
It's just a fucking good mic.
00:41:51
I don't care what it is.
It's a great mike.
00:41:54
And the only other one
I would consider if I had two would be
00:41:58
maybe the, Mike chick fil,
00:42:02
my 92.11.
00:42:05
That's that's a beautiful Mike.
00:42:06
That one still sitting in the box.
00:42:09
So so
00:42:11
Andrew did marry
00:42:12
his true love
that he's got he's got the legacy lives.
00:42:15
Exactly.
00:42:17
Yeah, I, I only have a fake 67.
00:42:19
I don't know enough that I'll say this.
00:42:21
If anybody's going, they're biased.
00:42:23
Of course they like they when they.
00:42:24
I mean, check out the Andrew
you Know, podcast.
00:42:27
It just reveals 818.
00:42:29
I mean, he's like.
00:42:30
And that guy literally does
nothing but sit there
00:42:32
and listen to Michael microphones.
00:42:34
Yeah. All day in comparison.
00:42:36
And he always puts them up against the
you 87 and 103 and
00:42:40
and he was blown away by the eight when he
00:42:42
I mean he just was like
this is a instant classic.
00:42:46
He literally used the word
this is an instant classic.
00:42:49
I, I think
I think another one thing about the 818
00:42:52
is it
punches so high above its price point,
00:42:56
I totally I, I got mine about a year ago
and I
00:43:00
and I was always swapping mikes because
I'd be happy with something for a while.
00:43:04
And then it got,
I haven't taken this down in a year.
00:43:07
Yeah, yeah.
00:43:08
So, you know, to me that says pretty much
it says a lot.
00:43:12
So. Yeah.
00:43:13
And keep in mind it's
really it's really like two microphones.
00:43:17
You get that dual output.
00:43:19
It is technically capable of
00:43:22
so much more than other
mikes, just in terms of,
00:43:27
you know,
00:43:27
remotely switching patterns
and I guess even like, I didn't
00:43:31
I haven't even messed with it now,
but using the polar pattern thing
00:43:35
and then embedding that into the mike,
00:43:37
the, the, you know, the software
where you can then send that.
00:43:41
Isn't
that something you can do with the 818.
00:43:44
Yeah. The pattern, the polar design.
00:43:46
Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:49
Yeah it's yeah it's definitely
an incredible mike and that's what it.
00:43:53
Yeah.
00:43:54
1200 bucks right. Yeah. It's a bit more.
00:43:57
You said it's about 1800 1900 here
probably.
00:43:59
Yeah.
00:44:00
It's still and
and you know that plug in great value
00:44:03
I think that it's not just a plug in that
you have to run in a dog either,
00:44:07
you know because yeah that's
what I'm saying.
00:44:09
You can embed that said Mike. Right.
00:44:11
You can bet into the firmware of the mike
through that little Bluetooth
00:44:15
dongle thing.
00:44:16
And now that secret, your own secret
pickup pattern that's unique to you
00:44:21
that nobody else has is in the mike
and nobody has that.
00:44:25
I have not seen anybody tried to do that.
00:44:28
That is a 100% unique feature.
00:44:30
Yes, it really is.
00:44:31
Yes. I know
Louis tried to do stuff like that,
00:44:34
and I don't know whether they added that
as well, but, they certainly have the two,
00:44:39
if I dare say there's sister companies,
maybe they're not in the sense
00:44:43
that they came out of the parent
being AKG brothers.
00:44:47
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.
00:44:50
So let's let's see here is Lou it fell
00:44:53
and then Austrian audio is Neumann
or because some people think
00:44:58
that actually fell is the true Neumann
nine one.
00:45:01
That's absolutely is.
00:45:03
So then Austrian audio is the gift
fell in that context.
00:45:07
Yeah. So that was good.
00:45:09
So I mean
00:45:11
the probably people are wondering
what the hell are you talking about?
00:45:13
The the thing about
if you think about Neumann, it's actually,
00:45:18
a mother company, right.
00:45:20
Because it's owned by Sennheiser.
00:45:22
And give Phil has all the original,
00:45:24
tooling and everything
because and that all goes back to
00:45:26
and no one knows
that goes back to World War two
00:45:28
when they sliced Germany in half,
the factory was in one place.
00:45:32
And then Neumann,
the guy ran to the west, right.
00:45:37
He got out the
he went back to Berlin and reopened.
00:45:40
But all of the original tools
were in the East.
00:45:44
Yeah.
00:45:44
So Neumann was in
CA fell because of the bombings in Berlin.
00:45:48
So they got the factory up and went to get
fell in, which became East Germany.
00:45:53
And and then Norman went back
and started up Neumann again in Berlin.
00:45:58
Well, it fell just
and they actually worked together
00:46:00
for quite a while until the wall went up.
00:46:02
And once the wall went up,
that was the end of that.
00:46:04
So Kessel got isolated
and just continue doing that.
00:46:07
But you want a
mike built on the original equipment?
00:46:09
It's a it's a good kefir.
00:46:11
Yeah.
00:46:11
If you want an M7 capsule built on the
original tooling then you get a good fill.
00:46:16
Yeah yeah yeah.
00:46:19
So yeah.
00:46:19
So so then and then where is where is AKG.
00:46:21
And that whole thing
like AKG shows up after the war.
00:46:24
They're not a company
that's before the war. Right.
00:46:27
I'm not sure when they started actually
I don't know I think were they not
00:46:30
I have no idea.
00:46:31
Like I mean they certainly show up
pretty soon after because the C12
00:46:36
is like kind of and you know,
they're doing stuff for Tesla Funkin.
00:46:40
So yeah.
00:46:40
So they're they're definitely in that
like by the 60s they're definitely well
00:46:44
established, which means
they probably added absolute 50s.
00:46:48
You know, you know you know
00:46:49
Newman's 1140s because those 47
you know things like that.
00:46:53
So yeah
00:46:55
I don't know exactly how old it is.
00:46:57
19 1947. Yeah.
00:46:59
Because it's not the same time
no anymore okay.
00:47:02
Yeah. 1947.
00:47:03
So because they were supplying
telephone con and the alarm
00:47:07
five one and C12 were actually
the same microphone pretty much.
00:47:12
Yep. Yeah.
00:47:13
Yeah.
00:47:13
So AKG is definitely a postwar company.
00:47:17
Yeah.
00:47:17
And they and they it's like it's so funny
because it's like that
00:47:19
original capsule that c k 12 capsule
that's like that designed from
00:47:24
because the C the C12 is one of their
first mics for AKG.
00:47:28
Right.
00:47:28
The AKG din series were at the time that
time manufactured by hand by five workers.
00:47:34
In 1949, the first AKG headphones
came on the market.
00:47:38
There you go.
00:47:38
Two years later.
00:47:39
Wow. Okay.
How is it that these guys. Yeah.
00:47:42
How is it today?
00:47:43
Essentially, for all, for lack of a better
way, I mean, for a lack of,
00:47:47
you know, a better way of saying
00:47:48
how do they essentially perfect
the mic capsule in the 40s
00:47:53
before we had the monitoring back
to monitor the full range of sound
00:47:57
the way we do now, or I think they were
they were somehow testing them.
00:48:02
They were telling them by hand.
00:48:04
Well, it was it was all hand tension,
but it was it was one of the things
00:48:08
you'd also have to optimize it for
whatever was the benchmark at the time.
00:48:12
I suppose we knew. Right?
00:48:14
You know,
00:48:15
I don't know what the tension was because
00:48:17
did they have like how do you check,
you know, like like you think about a drum
00:48:22
head, you can push on it
and you can check the tension on it,
00:48:25
but something as fragile as a microphone
diaphragm.
00:48:28
How do you I think they were just hand
tensioning them and
00:48:32
and somehow feeling the tension on either
end of whatever film they place it on.
00:48:37
In the early designs,
we're trying to figure out what,
00:48:40
what what are they
cut back straight or something
00:48:43
that they placed the gold onto
and it was mylar substrate.
00:48:47
It became prop substrate.
That's the word. Right.
00:48:50
And they would,
you know, like mylar was good
00:48:52
and they had all these
great pop properties,
00:48:54
but then they found out, as in the case
of the M7, that it deteriorates over time
00:48:58
and whatever it is that AKG uses
00:49:00
and then
and then how to screw it all together.
00:49:04
And that's where the brass capsule
was a pain in the ass.
00:49:07
So the nylon capsule
was like more like snap together.
00:49:09
And so they refined the manufacturing
process by doing the nylon capsule.
00:49:15
But somehow. But you still had to.
00:49:17
They were still tuned by ear,
though, weren't they?
00:49:19
I wonder if they use it like an it.
00:49:21
Was it an oscilloscope telescope?
00:49:23
Would they use that?
00:49:25
I don't know how you put us.
00:49:26
You're not putting electricity
through a diaphragm.
00:49:28
You're putting physical vibrations.
They're moving.
00:49:31
Yeah, I,
00:49:32
I think I think what they were doing is
they would make a bunch of capsules,
00:49:36
hand tension them.
00:49:37
So they probably had some sort of to tool
that would tell you the tension.
00:49:41
But it's like a drum head.
00:49:42
There's many tensions
going across a circular thing.
00:49:46
So it's really kind of an art to get
consistent tension across everything.
00:49:50
And then you got to clamp it down
at the right moment
00:49:52
when you have it all tensioned
so a million things can go wrong.
00:49:55
They make a bunch of capsules
00:49:57
and they listen to them
and they chuck the ones that are bad.
00:50:00
Yeah.
00:50:01
Which is what they did with the C12
and was why
00:50:03
they moved from brass to nylon,
because they have a lot of rejects.
00:50:07
This is like a comic strip
started off as let's talk about mice and,
00:50:11
you know, studio mice.
00:50:12
And now all of a sudden we're
00:50:13
sort of like back in the war, back
when I were a child.
00:50:17
Yeah, I
when I realized, you know, it was right.
00:50:20
War time. You know,
it wasn't like that in mind. I
00:50:25
did not.
00:50:25
Microphone.
00:50:26
No. We used to live in a little box
in the middle of the road.
00:50:29
And I think that's also why you talk a lot
about those vintage mikes
00:50:33
and not all that.
00:50:34
All vintage mics sound the same, you know.
00:50:37
No, there isn't the handmade nature
of them.
00:50:41
Yeah, things like that.
00:50:42
It's like you buy a handmade car
and no one is the same.
00:50:46
Yeah, that's true.
That's why I don't buy Handmade County.
00:50:49
But there you go. Yeah,
00:50:51
well, we've gone from microphones
to what else?
00:50:55
To history. Really.
00:50:56
So they're. Yeah. History cars now. Yeah.
00:50:59
That's right.
00:50:59
I think that if you,
if you ever do get to a Germany
00:51:02
and you want to go and see
a really interesting museum,
00:51:06
take a train ticket, sell
and go and check out the microtech
00:51:09
officials, have you been there?
00:51:10
Because it's got all that, you know,
but I've watched it on its own line.
00:51:14
I got to go save face. Next job.
00:51:15
He's going to become a tour guide.
00:51:17
Yeah, he's he's just warming up.
00:51:20
That's right.
00:51:21
Well that was fun.
00:51:22
Is it over the audio. Sweet.
00:51:25
Thanks to Driver and Austrian audio
recorded
00:51:29
using Source Connect
edited by Andrew Peaches and Nick spiral.
00:51:32
Those good your own audio issues.
00:51:34
Just ask Rob Aucoin.
00:51:36
Tech support for George the tech wisdom.
00:51:38
Don't forget to subscribe to the show
and join
00:51:40
in the conversation on our Facebook group
to leave a comment, suggest a topic
00:51:44
or just say goodbye, drop us a note
at our website, proteus.com.