Yes, sorry, Welcome to the pro audio suite, guys, a professional and motivator thanks to try Booth, the best vocal booths for home or on the road voice recording and Austrian Audio Making Passion Herd. Introducing Robert Marshall from Source Elements and Someone Audio Post Chicago, Robot Robertson from Voodoo Radio Imaging Sydney to the vo Stars, George the Techwittam from La Andrew Peter's Voice Ober Talents and Home Studio. Go and welcome to another pro audio suite thanks to Austrian Audio Making Passion Herd and try Booth. Don't forget the code TI PAP two hundred to get two hundred dollars off your try booth. Now, Robot's just moved house again and he's a bit sick of patching holes in walls and pain repainting after setting up his studio at home. Watch the solution. Well, okay, so yeah, you you've basically nailed it in one. I'm a renter unfortunately in the Sydney market and we were forced well I'm not forced out, but our owners wanted a three hundred and fifty dollars a week rent increase. To which we said fuck off, see you later, especially when we had to move the couches off the wall in the lounge room because every time it reigned, the wall became a waterfall. That was probably part of the region. But anyway, so yeah, so look, we've moved into this new place. It's it's it's a newer place. They've actually recently painted the walls and all that sort of stuff. And whilst yes, I do know how to patch walls after you know, a couple of moves and patch them so that they can't be seen and all that sort of stuff, do I really want to have to do it when I move out? Is what I'm asking myself. So I brought all my panels that I made with me last time, and they will fit in this room because it's pretty much similar dimensions. But I kind of so I have that option to just put the screws in the wall. But I sort of googled around and I came across a guy on YouTube who was talking about ones that he's built them so light that you can just put a picture hook literally a picture hook in the wall, and they're so light that they'll stay up. And they seem to me to look reasonably effective. So basically what he does is he builds just a little pine frame that's the same size as he needs, and then he puts some material on the back. He puts his rock wall. He doesn't use rock wall, he uses something else, but he puts his rock wall in there, and then he builds like a little sort of three millimeter MDF frame that goes around the outside and then covers that in fabric and hangs it up. Now. I looked at that. Not being particularly sort of savvy when it comes to this sort of stuff, I looked at that and went, well, that looks like it at work. But I did send George the link to have a look at. I don't know whether he did or not, but he might have more to say on what he Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. Um so yeah, the stuff he's laying into the frame looks like carpet padding. Um, it looks it's that recycled rubber material, phone rubber where it's been chipped and bonded together into sheets. And it's actually really similar to what's in the side of a studio brick wall too, by the way, Really, that's that's very similar, Like it might be the same stuff. So from an acoustical treatment standpoint, I've never used it. I don't know anything about how it works. I'm sure it works as good or better than any acoustical foam does, but I don't know what it's acoustical property would be. I would still prefer to use rock wool or any kind of mineral wool, because it's fantastic for that stuff. So if you stuck rock wooling there, do you think it's similar in weights? I mean, it wouldn't really be any heavier. Okay, um, it'd be thicker though, like to do its job. Boxall is like usually twice as thick as seven o three three and one in the same property, And you can get rock wall and right, but the same the same property, the same absorption property of a seven oh three and one inch takes two inches of rock wallis yeah, I don't know that's debatable, but anyway, yeah, it's as he is really some of the best stuff pound for pounds, it is. Yeah, But the frame is nice because it is a very lightweight frame. I mean I install panels all day long that have a wooden frame, a wooden backer, rock wall, and a fabric wrapping on him that way about the same as what this guy said. He said, five to six kilograms. That's not late. No, it's not light. It will a picture will hold it. But yeah, the one thing I wanted to ask you is when he builds the frame out of out of pine, say it's it's one inch the thickness of the pine. He puts his backing in the inside of the frame, which leaves a one inch gap between the back of the pad and the wall. He said that helps with the absorption. Is that right? Who should flat against the wall? No, it shouldn't. It depends on how much space you wanted to take out. Actually, you'll get it. You'll get a little increase of performance. It's not like an immediate improvement, like a big improvement. But if you let's say you have a two inch thick absorber and you have a two inch gap behind it, it will improve the absorber's low frequency absorption. Yes, not as much as if you were to just simply hang up a four inch thick panel flush against the wall. Right, But so like, if you're trying to save money on materials, two inches with a two inch gap is the way to go. If you're trying to save space. It doesn't make any freaking difference. So you'd still going to stick out four inches, right, So it just depends. But um, but you can put the like the one inch or the two inch panels right against the wall and have great performance. I mean it'll do well down to the fos easily. It maybe even lower. Yeah, especially for like voice stuff, it works well. And then if you do have a bass trap to like grab it basses a little bit more, Omnie. It doesn't have to be on every wall like that, so you can you know, find find the corner where the bass builds up and grab it there instead of trying to grab it from every place within the booth. I just do one by one frames and then you get whatever fabric you're gonna you know, use on the outside, and you and you make a little strap and then you cut your seven h three, drop it in the frame, put your strap across and staple it to the other side. And those are those are really light, you know, like I mean, yeah, you can just hang them on two nails usually if you want, or I do sometimes I do double sided velcrow And just do you guys have the wall? Do you guys have these things called command strips. Yeah. Yeah, so these are pretty expensive compared to a regular valcrow, but they are magic for renters. Yeah. I'm a rent or two and I've got hooks in my bathroom for hanging up clothing. They're supposed to only hold three or four pounds, but I've hung like three sweatshirts from a single hook, yeah, like and not had them fall Like they're strong. Yeah, And so what I'll do is I'll use command strips to anchor the bottom of the panel, not the weight, but I'll have like one nail in the center to hold the most of the weight, and then I'll have a command strip at the bottom corner so the thing doesn't swing around, you know if you bump into it. And that is a really good sort of hybrid approach. Minimal wall nailing, no glue. God forbidding glue in any rental apartment. I was. I was feeling very brave at the last place and I rent some LA daylights up the wall, thinking, oh yeah, you know that'll that'll come off is the one where the back has has event and I pulled it off. I took the paper off the off the drywall brabo, I did the same damn thing. Spent half an hour patching that before I painted the room before we moved out too. But yeah, anyway, I did the same thing man, my kid's room in my old place. Like it was like not even three months before I moved out. To put up nice cool rope of the ribbon light all around the room, I had just like industrial strength three m you know, adhesive, Like it was like a gray double sided sticky. It was like, what was I think? Like you at the time, you think, you know, I'll fix it when I move out, and then you move out and you go, oh shit, I've got to fix it. I never have you ever used the cleats? Have you ever used the French cleats? They're just these metal things you well no, no, no, well yeah you just did on Thursday. No, yeah, orlex makes these cleats are basically like a metal thing. Yeah yeah, at least and you can put them in the wall with basically something you just to screw or two screws, and then you just take the seven oh three and it doesn't even need a frame. And that's the nice thing about seven oh threes. It's rigid enough on its own where you can just wrap it with hot glue in your fabric that you want, and then just get these cleats and go yeah on the wall. Yeah, the edges look a little bit, it's spongey, but it definitely works. And these are called impaneling clips or they basically are metal spikes that stick out of the wall that the panel hangs from. You can do the really thin stuff around the edge to not give it that spongey look. You can get like the really really thin almost like veneer pieces of MDF that three mill MDF. I don't know what that he's in inches, I'm sorry, but the really thin one yeah, well yeah, yeah, well yeah, the really good quality ones they actually like a fiberglass or something that they harden the edges, yeah, with like an epoxy resin, and they look really sharp, like I have one of those, and but yeah, they're a lot harder to make to make them look really pro Well. The cleats that Robert's talking about, though, I'm I made my own. When I made these these panels that I brought with me. I just did a what's called a French cleat, so you you you basically take a piece of timbo and you put your saw on an angle and you cut it in half lengthwise, and so you have a straight aside and then a side that's got sort of a slope on it, and then you you use them to hang each other hang off each other on the wall. And that's what was screwed into the wall over at the last place, was all these French cleats. And that's why I'm looking around here going, I really don't want to have to do that again. If I don't have to, there was another another idea. If you've ever thought about actually putting all of your panels on stands, Yeah, but with kids and stuff, it's just a fucking nightmare, to be honest with you. I see the back of the room is a big thick curtain, and this room is pretty much the same dimensions as my last place. So I'm going to rehang the curtain because there's only a couple of little screws that go in the curtain rode for that. We should just need to use that stupid, like tacky stuff that you'd put your posters up Blue Tech. Yeah, you give me some shits. Tell those command strips are surprisingly good. Here's another tip. Like a lot of the panels, you know you're You're basically trying to put an adhesive strip on fabric. It does not stick very well. But if your frame has a wooden frame, you can staple gun the velcrow to the panel. So you're you've got like a few staples holding the velcro strip with a command strip to the panel, and then you put you know, the other half on the wall. And that has worked really really well as well for a few projects I've done. But yeah, getting them to not damage the walls and still stay there the ceiling is the hardest um to have things not fall on your head. I'm using command strips to hold some two inch thick acoustical foam panels over my head and that's been fine, But I don't know if I would rely on adhesive of for anything heavy. See I had I had a couple of clouds over the mixing desk at the last place, and I'm looking at the ceiling here going I don't know that I want to do that either, So yeah, there might be a plan B there as well. I think that's yeah. I mean the commander, I'm just using like the little two inch long poster tape ones and I just stuck the panels in the ceiling because I'm in an old how are you going to hang your at most speakers? Right? Oh my god, you're I'm in an old fifties building, and these don't use drywall. This stuff is like it's a plasta. Yeah, it's a nightmare. Yeah, hanging and mounting stuff towards walls like it sucks and brick behind that right right, you know, So like if I do anything it's a single nail, I'll just like bang a single nail in and just that's it, you know. Like the rest I'll just you know, stick on. But yeah, that's the worst putting things in the ceiling. I installed panels in a client's closet last week, and you know, it took me an hour to hang two panels because they were the ones on the ceiling. Getting in the lineup perfectly, be completely you know, flush, hanging on an angle, not crooked, you know, because they hang on hooks so they hang down from the ceiling a few inches. Those are the hardest ones done looking good. The walls are piece of cake. In comparison. You know, you haven't got picture riles. Yeah, picture riles. Yeah, Well you haven't me here. There are a thing in the old houses and teach that you're talking about. It's like, oh, oh, picture rails. Yeah, I think we call them gallery rails. Okay, my old place has has those. It's just that space between the crown molding exactly. Yeah. Yeah, those are really cool. Yeah, you can hang things from this totally. Yeah. Yeah, I did that my old place too. I had thirties house I rented, and I um I would put screws in the very top or the back almost the back edge of it so you couldn't see them. But there's also metal clips that are designed to clip into the gallery rails too. So we have the man our house and we use them and in fact, when we did the extension on the house put yeah gallery ryles will picture round has to hang that many pitches of me around your house mate? Nice? Seriously that needs where also am I going to thread my dolsa? There's another one that is a zero zero nail, zero penetration of any kind method, and that's using um compression rods. So you have like a pole that goes from the floor to the ceiling and you just jam it into the place and then you can have like you can have two or three of them spaced along your wall, and then you just run the rope er and then you can hang everything from that. That's more work. But yeah, if you don't want to put a single nail in your wall, it's not a way. Yeah, I'm happy with the picture hook. Look, if I have to do screws, I'll do screws. It's it's it really doesn't have that hard a patch on the wall because clatter. Yeah, I've had that happen. I tried to hang a you know those a curtain those IKEA curtain cables. Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, and and so the things under tension, there's a lot of Ye, there's a lot of stress on that anchor right and my old girlfriend, my girlfriend's place, Like I could not get an anchor point that didn't just make bigger and bigger holes. Yeah yeah, yeah, you know, when I was done, it was like it was like a golf ball size gaping hole in the wall. It's like, honey, I'm sorry, I I can't do it, probably because somebody else did it twenty years ago and patched it with patch, So all I was doing was ripping all the patch back out again. Yeah, well I used those I used those wool mates at the last place, you know that you screw them into the dry wool and then you put your screw into that Oh yeah yeah, so yeah, so you take those out and yeah, you take those out and say you've just got you know, massive holes everywhere that you need to leah. But but they work really well and look and to be fair, one thing that's to my advantage in this place is they literally painted it before we moved in, and they've left the spare paint in the garage, so I have the paint and if the paint dries out while we're staying here, at least I have the color that I can go and get some more made up. Because that's the other bitch too when you're moving out, is you know you've got to get your razor blade and take a sample off the wall and run down to the local hardware store and go, can you match this for me? And then you get home and it's like, ah, it doesn't quite match, So you've got to go back and anyway, give you a tip, Give you a tip with the paint. Can ye store it upside down? Yes, I've heard that. I've heard that. And once I get the ten million boxers, three book cabinets, two TVs, five kids, bikes, and god knows whatever else out of my garage. I should be able to get to the paint tins and actually do that. Yes, why store and upsite down? It seals the air from getting in. Yeah. And also the skins on the bottom as first to the top. Oh, the air seal, yeah right, because those metal live you know, they don't really make a very great seal. So the pen itself mixed, Ye, how about it? I just learned something. This is ohotograph, this old house. We're not just pretty faces. Indeed very practically you're like, we have to be Well. That was the Pro Audio Suite thanks to Chime and Austrian audio recorded using Source Connects, edited by Andrew Peters and mixed by Voodoo Radio Imaging, which takes the pot from George the check which I'm doing to get to subscribe to the show and joining the conversation on our Facebook group to leave a comment, suggest a topic, or just sayday stop us a note at our website Pro Audio Suite dot com.
