00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 hi there thanks for joining us on a Q&A
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 Edition or even a Q&A edition of Space
00:00:05 --> 00:00:07 Nuts my name is Andrew Dunley your host
00:00:07 --> 00:00:09 great to have your company coming up
00:00:09 --> 00:00:11 this time we're going to be answering
00:00:11 --> 00:00:13 questions from our audience about
00:00:13 --> 00:00:15 primordial black holes this is a wh if
00:00:15 --> 00:00:17 question we love those uh someone else
00:00:17 --> 00:00:20 is asking about old galaxies uh we are
00:00:20 --> 00:00:24 looking for the ultimate lrange point
00:00:24 --> 00:00:26 and the accelerating universe which we
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28 debunked in the last episode but uh
00:00:29 --> 00:00:30 we're going to unbun
00:00:30 --> 00:00:34 on this episode of Space Nuts 15 seconds
00:00:34 --> 00:00:38 guidance is internal 10 9 ignition
00:00:39 --> 00:00:44 sequence start space Nets 5 4 3 2 1 2 3
00:00:44 --> 00:00:48 4 5 5 4 3 2 1 Space Nuts asut reported
00:00:48 --> 00:00:51 feels good and joining me again is
00:00:51 --> 00:00:52 Professor Fred Watson astronomer at
00:00:52 --> 00:00:54 large and Professor johy Horner
00:00:54 --> 00:00:57 professor of astrophysics gentlemen
00:00:57 --> 00:01:00 welcome thanks for joining us great
00:01:00 --> 00:01:01 pleasure Andrew good to be here good to
00:01:01 --> 00:01:04 have jonty on board as well which this
00:01:05 --> 00:01:07 this was your last show for a little
00:01:07 --> 00:01:11 while because you're jetting off to um
00:01:11 --> 00:01:14 somewhere to look uh well it's Sweden
00:01:14 --> 00:01:17 Norway Iceland and Greenland and this
00:01:17 --> 00:01:20 will be these tours are pretty regular
00:01:20 --> 00:01:23 occasions as you know from man's dark
00:01:23 --> 00:01:25 sky traveler company I do the sign she
00:01:25 --> 00:01:27 does all the real work uh but this will
00:01:27 --> 00:01:29 be our the first time we've including
00:01:29 --> 00:01:31 Greenland in one of these so we're
00:01:31 --> 00:01:33 hoping for very spectacular views of
00:01:33 --> 00:01:35 icebergs as well as spectacular views of
00:01:35 --> 00:01:38 the Northern Lights Fantastic get an
00:01:38 --> 00:01:41 American visa yet for Greenland
00:01:41 --> 00:01:44 no it's okay our Mary won't let it go I
00:01:44 --> 00:01:45 can tell
00:01:45 --> 00:01:49 you yeah well I'm Judy and I are
00:01:49 --> 00:01:51 visiting Greenland later this year so we
00:01:51 --> 00:01:55 won't know who's actually
00:01:55 --> 00:01:57 controlling we'll let you know what it's
00:01:57 --> 00:02:00 like yeah but I've got my us uh Visa
00:02:00 --> 00:02:04 exemption so I should be right
00:02:04 --> 00:02:07 I um shall we get straight into it why
00:02:07 --> 00:02:10 not all right uh our first question
00:02:10 --> 00:02:13 comes from somebody who's never sent a
00:02:13 --> 00:02:14 question in before except for the other
00:02:14 --> 00:02:18 25 times Rusty from Donny Donny Brook TR
00:02:18 --> 00:02:20 Andrew okay it's
00:02:20 --> 00:02:23 Rusty a question about black
00:02:23 --> 00:02:27 Hol if a primordial black hole
00:02:27 --> 00:02:30 comparable with the THS of the Earth
00:02:30 --> 00:02:33 were to enter the solar system at a high
00:02:33 --> 00:02:37 angle to the ecliptic and impact one of
00:02:37 --> 00:02:39 the rocky planets
00:02:39 --> 00:02:45 directly would it a pass through largely
00:02:45 --> 00:02:50 unnoticed B leave a huge hole through
00:02:50 --> 00:02:53 the center of the planet which would
00:02:53 --> 00:02:55 cause a lot of mayem or
00:02:55 --> 00:03:00 C explode the planet completely or D
00:03:00 --> 00:03:04 none of the above heavy handing
00:03:04 --> 00:03:08 Che um like I should tell you jonty that
00:03:08 --> 00:03:11 uh Rusty has a habit of throwing curve
00:03:11 --> 00:03:12 balls at us he's always trying to trick
00:03:12 --> 00:03:15 Fred so just bear that in mind when we
00:03:15 --> 00:03:18 we try and Tackle this one well so I've
00:03:18 --> 00:03:20 got a clarification request here because
00:03:20 --> 00:03:22 you get two very different answers
00:03:22 --> 00:03:25 depending on manuia here he says it's
00:03:25 --> 00:03:27 the size of the Earth but if it's the
00:03:27 --> 00:03:30 size of the Earth then it's 2 times
00:03:30 --> 00:03:33 the mass of the Sun a black hole that's
00:03:33 --> 00:03:35 the Earth if it's a black hole the mass
00:03:35 --> 00:03:38 of the Earth then it's 9 millimet across
00:03:38 --> 00:03:39 and so you get a very different outcome
00:03:40 --> 00:03:41 depending on which of those it is I mean
00:03:42 --> 00:03:43 either way you're going to change the
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45 orbits of the planets particularly the
00:03:45 --> 00:03:48 one that it encounters but if it's the
00:03:48 --> 00:03:50 size of the Earth and therefore 2200
00:03:50 --> 00:03:52 times the mass of the Sun the solar
00:03:53 --> 00:03:54 system will be utterly disrupted the
00:03:54 --> 00:03:57 planets will be ejected the thing it
00:03:57 --> 00:04:00 hits will just kind of um inside it and
00:04:00 --> 00:04:01 its mass will have gone up a tiny little
00:04:02 --> 00:04:04 amount if it's the mass of the Earth and
00:04:04 --> 00:04:07 left on 9 mm across we probably wouldn't
00:04:07 --> 00:04:09 see it coming we'd see the orbits
00:04:09 --> 00:04:12 changing it will probably punch a 9 mm
00:04:12 --> 00:04:14 sized hole through the Earth but there's
00:04:14 --> 00:04:16 not really any friction there to slow it
00:04:16 --> 00:04:18 down so I don't know that you get much
00:04:18 --> 00:04:20 in the way of recoil but you would get a
00:04:20 --> 00:04:21 gravitational perturbation change in the
00:04:21 --> 00:04:23 Earth's orbit that would be my take so
00:04:24 --> 00:04:25 if it came through the Earth our orbit
00:04:25 --> 00:04:28 would become more tilted Seasons would
00:04:28 --> 00:04:29 be more pronounced you'd also have a
00:04:29 --> 00:04:32 fairly dramatic change in where the
00:04:32 --> 00:04:34 planets are in the sky and all that
00:04:34 --> 00:04:37 stuff um if it was 2200 times the mass
00:04:37 --> 00:04:39 of the Sun this will be the last last
00:04:39 --> 00:04:44 podcast yeah I think um so yeah my take
00:04:44 --> 00:04:46 on it is pretty well what yours is jonty
00:04:46 --> 00:04:48 I just assumed it was the mass of the
00:04:48 --> 00:04:49 Earth we were talking about and I think
00:04:49 --> 00:04:52 it's the um radius of the Event Horizon
00:04:52 --> 00:04:55 that's 9 millimeters uh of of an earth
00:04:55 --> 00:04:58 sized an earth Mass black hole but
00:04:58 --> 00:05:01 something that size I mean you know you
00:05:01 --> 00:05:03 you said in in the intro to this Andrew
00:05:03 --> 00:05:06 that it was Rusty throwing a curved ball
00:05:06 --> 00:05:07 and that's what it's going to be it
00:05:07 --> 00:05:10 would be it probably wouldn't be a
00:05:10 --> 00:05:12 direct hit because those are quite rare
00:05:12 --> 00:05:15 it would but it would still be near
00:05:15 --> 00:05:18 enough to a direct hit that the uh orbit
00:05:18 --> 00:05:20 of the black hole would you know if it
00:05:20 --> 00:05:22 came close enough to the Earth the tidal
00:05:22 --> 00:05:25 effects on the Earth itself would be
00:05:25 --> 00:05:27 disastrous uh one side of the earth
00:05:27 --> 00:05:28 feeling much more of a pull than the
00:05:29 --> 00:05:31 other side so yeah effectively we would
00:05:31 --> 00:05:32 still be
00:05:32 --> 00:05:35 spaghettified uh and um maybe a bit
00:05:35 --> 00:05:36 slower than you would if you just fell
00:05:36 --> 00:05:39 into a black hole yourself but it would
00:05:39 --> 00:05:41 be a fairly disastrous scenario as well
00:05:41 --> 00:05:43 as you know per perturbing the orbits of
00:05:43 --> 00:05:46 the other planets it will be a mess so I
00:05:46 --> 00:05:48 think it's D isn't it none of the above
00:05:48 --> 00:05:51 is the correct answer for this the with
00:05:51 --> 00:05:53 it with the Earth and Moon though will
00:05:53 --> 00:05:55 be because of the way the Earth and Moon
00:05:55 --> 00:05:58 move if it came through you know if it's
00:05:58 --> 00:05:59 more than two or three times the Earth's
00:05:59 --> 00:06:01 radius away we're not going to be
00:06:01 --> 00:06:03 disrupted but we will have big tidal
00:06:03 --> 00:06:05 effects but the Earth and the moon will
00:06:05 --> 00:06:07 be pulled by different amounts in
00:06:07 --> 00:06:09 different directions and so it might be
00:06:09 --> 00:06:10 enough to dissociate the Earth and Moon
00:06:10 --> 00:06:12 and suddenly we'll have five planets not
00:06:12 --> 00:06:14 four in the inner solar system with the
00:06:14 --> 00:06:16 added impact that down the line of the
00:06:16 --> 00:06:17 Earth and the moon might Collide and
00:06:17 --> 00:06:19 that will be yet another bad
00:06:19 --> 00:06:23 day indeed on the flood Side Golf is be
00:06:23 --> 00:06:24 drilled because it would increase their
00:06:25 --> 00:06:30 chances of Hall in one significantly
00:06:30 --> 00:06:33 oh dear all right Rusty thanks for that
00:06:33 --> 00:06:35 one you're always um throwing one out
00:06:35 --> 00:06:38 there and uh that certainly did apply in
00:06:38 --> 00:06:40 this case uh our next question comes
00:06:40 --> 00:06:43 from Marcel uh science currently holds
00:06:43 --> 00:06:45 the belief that our universe is 13.8
00:06:45 --> 00:06:47 billion years old the James web Space
00:06:47 --> 00:06:50 Telescope keeps on finding older and
00:06:50 --> 00:06:52 older galaxies uh some of the oldest
00:06:52 --> 00:06:55 galaxies observed I beli to have formed
00:06:55 --> 00:06:58 over 300 million years after the big
00:06:58 --> 00:07:02 bang what if we find a Galaxy that is 14
00:07:02 --> 00:07:04 million years old how will we begin to
00:07:04 --> 00:07:07 adjust our theories to match reality
00:07:07 --> 00:07:09 which theories will be first to get
00:07:09 --> 00:07:11 thrown out the window versus which
00:07:11 --> 00:07:15 theories do we believe are absolutely
00:07:15 --> 00:07:18 correct um can I have a shot at
00:07:18 --> 00:07:22 this yeah the um it's not going to
00:07:22 --> 00:07:24 happen that we'll find a Galaxy older
00:07:24 --> 00:07:26 than the universe it actually in the
00:07:26 --> 00:07:28 early days of the of The Big Bang Theory
00:07:28 --> 00:07:30 that was one of of the problems uh that
00:07:30 --> 00:07:34 our measurements then uh s suggested
00:07:34 --> 00:07:36 that the the Big Bang occurred more
00:07:36 --> 00:07:39 recently than the ages of the planets
00:07:39 --> 00:07:41 and the stars that you know you have a
00:07:41 --> 00:07:42 universe that's younger than its
00:07:42 --> 00:07:44 contents and that's clearly not a
00:07:44 --> 00:07:46 possibility and it was only when we
00:07:46 --> 00:07:48 really worked out just how old the
00:07:48 --> 00:07:50 universe is and our current thinking is
00:07:50 --> 00:07:54 indeed 13.8 billion years uh that um
00:07:54 --> 00:07:56 that that was all rectified but the
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58 bottom line is that the the yard stick
00:07:58 --> 00:08:01 by which the age of galaxies is measured
00:08:01 --> 00:08:03 is basically as a fraction of the age of
00:08:03 --> 00:08:06 the universe so you're never G to find a
00:08:06 --> 00:08:08 Galaxy that's older older than the
00:08:08 --> 00:08:11 universe because you're you're sort of
00:08:11 --> 00:08:13 you know you're looking back certainly
00:08:13 --> 00:08:16 perhaps 90% 95% of the age of the
00:08:16 --> 00:08:18 universe for some of these uh some of
00:08:18 --> 00:08:21 these really um primitive galaxies that
00:08:21 --> 00:08:22 we're seeing but it's never going to be
00:08:22 --> 00:08:24 older than the universe because we can't
00:08:24 --> 00:08:27 we Define it as a as essentially a
00:08:27 --> 00:08:30 fraction of the of the universe's age so
00:08:30 --> 00:08:32 that won't happen what is more
00:08:32 --> 00:08:34 interesting is the suffy of this which
00:08:34 --> 00:08:38 is that we do see galaxies which are in
00:08:38 --> 00:08:40 seen as the universe was as it was when
00:08:40 --> 00:08:43 it was only perhaps two or 300 million
00:08:43 --> 00:08:45 years old which look more mature than we
00:08:45 --> 00:08:47 expected them to be we see black holes
00:08:47 --> 00:08:49 that are bigger than we expected them to
00:08:49 --> 00:08:50 be because we thought they'd take a lot
00:08:50 --> 00:08:53 longer uh to grow to their super massive
00:08:53 --> 00:08:56 size so those are the conundrums uh not
00:08:56 --> 00:08:57 that we're going to find a Galaxy that's
00:08:57 --> 00:09:00 older than the universe but trying to
00:09:00 --> 00:09:02 understand how how it is that some of
00:09:02 --> 00:09:04 these phenomena that we see spiral
00:09:04 --> 00:09:06 alarms for example uh occurred so
00:09:06 --> 00:09:07 quickly in the early history of the
00:09:07 --> 00:09:11 Universe I suppose his point was that uh
00:09:11 --> 00:09:12 you know if we find something that's so
00:09:12 --> 00:09:16 close to when the universe began how do
00:09:16 --> 00:09:18 you how do you equate for
00:09:18 --> 00:09:21 that well that's the bottom line is what
00:09:21 --> 00:09:22 what I was just saying you know it means
00:09:22 --> 00:09:25 we have to revise our theories of Galaxy
00:09:25 --> 00:09:27 Evolution not that we have to throw away
00:09:27 --> 00:09:29 the Big Bang which is what a lot of
00:09:29 --> 00:09:31 these questions are aiming at the Big
00:09:31 --> 00:09:33 Bang is absolutely secure we can still
00:09:33 --> 00:09:36 see it uh we we you know we know that it
00:09:36 --> 00:09:38 happened and yet we get people
00:09:39 --> 00:09:41 questioning us on it Fred semi-regularly
00:09:41 --> 00:09:43 uh there are quite a few people who
00:09:43 --> 00:09:46 don't believe in it well nether did uh
00:09:46 --> 00:09:49 my namesake Fred Hy he was a staunch
00:09:49 --> 00:09:50 believer in the study State Theory until
00:09:50 --> 00:09:53 he went to his grave yeah yeah what yous
00:09:53 --> 00:09:54 Johnny well there's interesting
00:09:54 --> 00:09:56 parallels the other thing that comes
00:09:56 --> 00:09:58 into this is uncertainty which is we
00:09:58 --> 00:10:00 never measure edge with perfect
00:10:00 --> 00:10:02 Precision there's always a bit of an
00:10:02 --> 00:10:04 error bar on it and I'm reminded of the
00:10:04 --> 00:10:05 story probably about a decade ago of
00:10:06 --> 00:10:08 that sty that people du the methusa
00:10:08 --> 00:10:13 start which is HD 140283 lovely barcode
00:10:13 --> 00:10:16 and that made news back in like 2013
00:10:16 --> 00:10:18 because people had measured its age it's
00:10:18 --> 00:10:20 an incredibly metal paw star it's one of
00:10:20 --> 00:10:21 the oldest stars in the galaxy for
00:10:21 --> 00:10:24 certain but they'd measured the Age
00:10:24 --> 00:10:25 based on all these observations of it
00:10:25 --> 00:10:27 and estimated an age of
00:10:27 --> 00:10:31 14.46 plus or minus is 0.8 billion years
00:10:31 --> 00:10:33 and that age is older than the edge of
00:10:33 --> 00:10:34 the universe so people were saying how
00:10:34 --> 00:10:36 can we have a star older than the edge
00:10:36 --> 00:10:38 of the universe and the subtlety here is
00:10:38 --> 00:10:40 in the uncertainty on the measurement
00:10:40 --> 00:10:43 because that plus or minus 0.8 billion
00:10:43 --> 00:10:48 years is saying that in 66% of cases
00:10:48 --> 00:10:50 this is one Sigma error so 66% of the
00:10:50 --> 00:10:52 time the age will fall in that age range
00:10:52 --> 00:10:55 and 33% of the time it'll fall outside
00:10:55 --> 00:10:58 that ede range so that age is compatible
00:10:58 --> 00:10:59 with the ede of the unit IE it's just
00:11:00 --> 00:11:02 telling you that the star is very old
00:11:02 --> 00:11:03 it's not saying the star is older than
00:11:03 --> 00:11:06 the edge of the universe necessarily and
00:11:06 --> 00:11:08 what's actually happen in the followup
00:11:08 --> 00:11:09 from that is a couple of more recent
00:11:09 --> 00:11:12 Studies have given it ages of 13.7 or 12
00:11:12 --> 00:11:15 billion years so as we've got more data
00:11:15 --> 00:11:16 the error bar has shrunk but it's
00:11:16 --> 00:11:18 noticeable that it's that age has moved
00:11:18 --> 00:11:21 by more than a single error bar which is
00:11:21 --> 00:11:23 not uncommon when the errors are quite
00:11:23 --> 00:11:25 large other than that it is like Fred
00:11:25 --> 00:11:27 says the problem is that even if you
00:11:27 --> 00:11:29 change the edge of the universe a little
00:11:29 --> 00:11:30 bit these galaxies will still have
00:11:30 --> 00:11:33 formed within the first 2% or 5% of its
00:11:33 --> 00:11:35 life you're just stretching the timeline
00:11:35 --> 00:11:37 or shrinking the timeline a little bit
00:11:38 --> 00:11:40 um it's like what we talked about in the
00:11:40 --> 00:11:40 other
00:11:40 --> 00:11:43 podcasts the way that theory and
00:11:43 --> 00:11:45 observation interact is that theory is
00:11:45 --> 00:11:47 the best possible explanation of what
00:11:47 --> 00:11:48 we've already seen and it predicts what
00:11:48 --> 00:11:50 we should see in the future with better
00:11:50 --> 00:11:52 instruments and when those better
00:11:52 --> 00:11:54 instruments Give us new measurements
00:11:54 --> 00:11:56 that allows us to refine or improve or
00:11:56 --> 00:11:58 disprove or kill the theory you know
00:11:58 --> 00:11:59 there's an argument you can never prove
00:12:00 --> 00:12:03 a theory but you can disprove it and the
00:12:03 --> 00:12:04 more you fail to disprove it the more
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07 confident we are that it's a good theory
00:12:07 --> 00:12:10 and in this case it's telling us not
00:12:10 --> 00:12:11 that the Big Bang Theory is wrong it's
00:12:11 --> 00:12:12 not telling us that the Universe wasn't
00:12:13 --> 00:12:14 form that way but instead it's telling
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16 us that our understanding of how stars
00:12:16 --> 00:12:19 and galaxies form in those early days is
00:12:19 --> 00:12:22 incomplete and that's exactly why people
00:12:22 --> 00:12:24 wanted these incredible telescopes go up
00:12:24 --> 00:12:25 there because that's the only way we can
00:12:25 --> 00:12:28 find it out and I suppose we have to
00:12:28 --> 00:12:30 keep making a adjusts for the fact that
00:12:30 --> 00:12:31 we've decided all this because of two
00:12:31 --> 00:12:34 kilos of mush inside
00:12:34 --> 00:12:37 out yes so what a little bit of gooey
00:12:37 --> 00:12:38 carbon can
00:12:38 --> 00:12:41 do it's the uh it's the 100 billion
00:12:41 --> 00:12:44 neurons in it the tricky bit
00:12:44 --> 00:12:46 yes uh thanks Marcel great question
00:12:47 --> 00:12:49 always a good discussion point that one
00:12:49 --> 00:12:51 this is Space Nuts with Andrew Dunley
00:12:51 --> 00:12:55 Professor Fred Watson and Professor johy
00:12:55 --> 00:12:58 hor okay we checked all four systems and
00:12:58 --> 00:13:01 With It Go face nuts and jonty we have
00:13:01 --> 00:13:04 Movement we have movement I see a dog
00:13:04 --> 00:13:07 with it who is coming over to say hello
00:13:07 --> 00:13:09 to you yeah what's his name that's Maya
00:13:09 --> 00:13:11 that's the sister we've got a brother
00:13:11 --> 00:13:12 and sister who are coming eight years
00:13:12 --> 00:13:14 old but she's the
00:13:14 --> 00:13:16 most um she's heading off to see if
00:13:16 --> 00:13:18 there's anything interesting happening
00:13:18 --> 00:13:20 elsewhere yes yeah nothing interesting
00:13:20 --> 00:13:22 happening here that's I
00:13:22 --> 00:13:25 was uh let's go to our next question
00:13:25 --> 00:13:27 this is an audio question from one of
00:13:27 --> 00:13:29 our regular contributors hello buddy
00:13:29 --> 00:13:32 hello space Nets buddy from Oregon again
00:13:32 --> 00:13:34 hey guys um would the center of a galaxy
00:13:34 --> 00:13:37 be like the ultimate like range point
00:13:37 --> 00:13:39 like for the Galaxy um you were saying
00:13:39 --> 00:13:41 if Earth had a tunnel in it that once
00:13:41 --> 00:13:42 you got in the middle you'd be
00:13:42 --> 00:13:44 weightless is that' be like a grange
00:13:44 --> 00:13:48 point0 um and uh if so wouldn't that
00:13:48 --> 00:13:50 make the black hole weightless to the
00:13:50 --> 00:13:54 Galaxy um and would that no point in the
00:13:54 --> 00:13:56 center from the little Grange Point
00:13:56 --> 00:13:59 create a u a gravitational well that
00:13:59 --> 00:14:01 look like your donut that you were
00:14:01 --> 00:14:02 talking about in the Galaxy where the
00:14:02 --> 00:14:05 priation all right thanks guys of the
00:14:05 --> 00:14:07 podcast keep up the good work got a bit
00:14:07 --> 00:14:09 glitchy there at the end buddy but uh
00:14:09 --> 00:14:10 that's the internet for you thanks for
00:14:10 --> 00:14:12 the question uh the ultimate lrange
00:14:12 --> 00:14:15 point would the center of the Galaxy be
00:14:15 --> 00:14:18 the ultimate lrange Point who wants to
00:14:18 --> 00:14:21 tackle that one first I can dive in
00:14:21 --> 00:14:24 briefly if you want um so the background
00:14:24 --> 00:14:27 here is that the lrange points are local
00:14:27 --> 00:14:30 areas of increased ability and it comes
00:14:30 --> 00:14:32 out of something called the restricted
00:14:32 --> 00:14:34 three body problem where you've got in
00:14:34 --> 00:14:36 the solar system which is where I do a
00:14:36 --> 00:14:38 lot of my work the sun and a planet and
00:14:38 --> 00:14:40 something else and that something else
00:14:40 --> 00:14:43 is pretty small and Tiny and you can
00:14:43 --> 00:14:45 play games so when I was a kid I was in
00:14:45 --> 00:14:47 Scouts and we used to go out in the
00:14:47 --> 00:14:50 countryside and we had contour maps
00:14:50 --> 00:14:51 which were maps of the local area that
00:14:51 --> 00:14:53 had these lines on and they told you how
00:14:53 --> 00:14:55 high or how low you were yeah and what
00:14:55 --> 00:14:56 those Contour are actually is telling
00:14:56 --> 00:14:58 you what your gravitational potential
00:14:58 --> 00:14:59 energy it's a measure of the
00:14:59 --> 00:15:01 gravitational
00:15:01 --> 00:15:03 potential you can do the same with the
00:15:03 --> 00:15:04 solar system you can make a map of the
00:15:04 --> 00:15:07 solar system that is like a contour map
00:15:07 --> 00:15:09 and when you do that you find the sun's
00:15:09 --> 00:15:11 a big well in the middle and the Earth's
00:15:11 --> 00:15:13 a small and M where the Earth is but
00:15:13 --> 00:15:15 there are five locations where you have
00:15:15 --> 00:15:18 local plateaus local flat bits and
00:15:18 --> 00:15:20 they're your LR points and they're more
00:15:20 --> 00:15:24 realistically LR areas and three of them
00:15:24 --> 00:15:26 are like Sables on a hillside so they're
00:15:26 --> 00:15:28 fairly stable but if you roll a little
00:15:28 --> 00:15:30 way you'll fall off and that's lrange 1
00:15:30 --> 00:15:32 2 and three and they're on the line
00:15:32 --> 00:15:34 between the Sun and the Earth one is on
00:15:34 --> 00:15:37 the far side of the sun one is between
00:15:37 --> 00:15:38 the Earth and the Sun and one is just on
00:15:38 --> 00:15:40 the far side of the Earth on that line
00:15:40 --> 00:15:42 the other two the Gran points four and
00:15:42 --> 00:15:44 five which are like these big plateaus
00:15:45 --> 00:15:46 that are 60 degrees ahead and behind the
00:15:46 --> 00:15:48 Earth in its orbit or behind Jupiter in
00:15:48 --> 00:15:49 its orbit that's where you get the
00:15:49 --> 00:15:53 Jupiter Trojans and so these are points
00:15:53 --> 00:15:54 where the Contours are flatter so you
00:15:54 --> 00:15:56 can sit there fairly stable before you
00:15:56 --> 00:15:57 roll off in any given
00:15:57 --> 00:16:00 Direction the middle of the Sun in that
00:16:00 --> 00:16:03 analogy isn't a lrange point if that's a
00:16:03 --> 00:16:05 slightly different concept so you are
00:16:05 --> 00:16:07 entirely right that if you're in the
00:16:07 --> 00:16:08 middle of an object you don't feel any
00:16:09 --> 00:16:11 gravitational pull from that object more
00:16:11 --> 00:16:13 strictly you feel the gravitational pull
00:16:13 --> 00:16:15 from every atom individually but they
00:16:15 --> 00:16:16 all cancel out so if you're in the
00:16:16 --> 00:16:18 middle of the Earth you're being pulled
00:16:18 --> 00:16:21 by people stood in America the same
00:16:21 --> 00:16:22 amount as you are by people stood in
00:16:22 --> 00:16:23 Australia but they're pulling in
00:16:23 --> 00:16:26 opposite direction so it all cancels out
00:16:26 --> 00:16:27 so if you were in the middle of the
00:16:27 --> 00:16:30 black hole um and ignoring all the other
00:16:30 --> 00:16:32 issues that would entail you wouldn't
00:16:32 --> 00:16:34 feel the gravitational pull of the black
00:16:34 --> 00:16:36 hole and if that was exactly at the
00:16:36 --> 00:16:39 center of the Galaxy all the matter in
00:16:39 --> 00:16:40 the Galaxy would cancel out but you'd
00:16:40 --> 00:16:43 still feel the pull from things locally
00:16:43 --> 00:16:44 so if you were in the middle of the
00:16:44 --> 00:16:46 Earth and you were massless from the
00:16:46 --> 00:16:47 point of view of the earth you'd still
00:16:47 --> 00:16:49 feel the pull from the Moon in One
00:16:49 --> 00:16:50 Direction and the sun in the other
00:16:50 --> 00:16:52 direction you'd still feel all those
00:16:52 --> 00:16:53 things so you would be still being
00:16:53 --> 00:16:56 pulled around and I dare say that you'd
00:16:56 --> 00:16:58 probably be pulled slightly off center
00:16:58 --> 00:17:00 if you could move around around and then
00:17:00 --> 00:17:01 youd start to feel the pull from the
00:17:01 --> 00:17:02 gravitation of the black hole pulling
00:17:02 --> 00:17:03 you back towards the middle and the
00:17:03 --> 00:17:06 further out you go the more pull you
00:17:06 --> 00:17:08 feel cuz you only feel the pull from the
00:17:08 --> 00:17:11 stuff that is interior to you everything
00:17:11 --> 00:17:12 and this used to make my head hurt when
00:17:12 --> 00:17:15 we did electromagnetism at Uni and
00:17:15 --> 00:17:17 trying to get your head around this
00:17:17 --> 00:17:18 everything more distant from the middle
00:17:18 --> 00:17:20 than you are cancels out with everything
00:17:21 --> 00:17:23 else everything nearer to the middle you
00:17:23 --> 00:17:25 feel added up as though it's pulling
00:17:25 --> 00:17:28 from the center so technically it
00:17:28 --> 00:17:29 wouldn't be able to Grant point because
00:17:29 --> 00:17:32 it's not one of those plateaus it's the
00:17:32 --> 00:17:34 bottom of a well instead but it would be
00:17:34 --> 00:17:36 a place where you would effectively be
00:17:36 --> 00:17:39 weightless massless well weightless
00:17:39 --> 00:17:40 rather than massless as a technical
00:17:40 --> 00:17:42 thing you still have mass but there'd be
00:17:42 --> 00:17:44 nothing pulling on you so you wouldn't
00:17:44 --> 00:17:46 have weight um but it wouldn't count as
00:17:46 --> 00:17:49 a LR point from my point of view until
00:17:49 --> 00:17:50 you turned into
00:17:50 --> 00:17:52 spaghetti you perceive would be the same
00:17:52 --> 00:17:54 thing and it will probably be a lot of
00:17:54 --> 00:17:56 pain as you become spaghettified yes as
00:17:56 --> 00:17:59 you go to get there to get there that's
00:17:59 --> 00:18:04 right so that absolutely jont um so I
00:18:04 --> 00:18:06 think that means the um the answer to
00:18:06 --> 00:18:11 the question is is just yes uh except we
00:18:11 --> 00:18:13 don't consider you know the center of
00:18:13 --> 00:18:16 things as being a LR point it's the LR
00:18:16 --> 00:18:19 points are quite specific or areas is a
00:18:19 --> 00:18:20 much better term for them because
00:18:20 --> 00:18:22 they're you know we think of them as a
00:18:23 --> 00:18:24 an individual point in space but they're
00:18:24 --> 00:18:27 not they're far from it that's why for
00:18:27 --> 00:18:30 example the L2 point in the earth's gr
00:18:30 --> 00:18:32 system it can be occupied by many
00:18:32 --> 00:18:35 spacecraft at once which it is yes and
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38 and it's not like Dead Steel the the the
00:18:38 --> 00:18:41 spacecraft have to adjust to the motion
00:18:41 --> 00:18:42 and that's CA they're starting to roll
00:18:42 --> 00:18:44 off the saddle so these Halo orbits that
00:18:44 --> 00:18:46 they move around are actually rolling
00:18:46 --> 00:18:48 around the saddle essentially along a
00:18:48 --> 00:18:50 line of constant height like one of
00:18:50 --> 00:18:53 those Contours on your contour map but
00:18:53 --> 00:18:55 it's very easy to roll off so that's why
00:18:55 --> 00:18:57 you burn fuel to stay on location
00:18:58 --> 00:19:00 because with the AL in particular if you
00:19:00 --> 00:19:01 fall off you'll eventually fall off
00:19:01 --> 00:19:02 properly CU you've been pulled by
00:19:02 --> 00:19:04 everything else yeah and land in a pile
00:19:04 --> 00:19:06 of dirt which is what happened when I
00:19:06 --> 00:19:07 rolled off the saddle once but it was
00:19:07 --> 00:19:10 like go there um I was not injured I
00:19:10 --> 00:19:13 wasn't not injured you're very lucky
00:19:13 --> 00:19:15 most people do get
00:19:15 --> 00:19:19 injured uh thank you buddy so um yeah as
00:19:19 --> 00:19:20 always I love the way buddy thinks he
00:19:21 --> 00:19:22 comes up with these Amazing Ideas I
00:19:22 --> 00:19:25 don't know where he uh his brain is
00:19:25 --> 00:19:27 obviously going at 10 mil hour all
00:19:27 --> 00:19:28 the time he comes up with some some
00:19:28 --> 00:19:31 interesting questions our last question
00:19:31 --> 00:19:33 today comes from Michael in Evanston
00:19:33 --> 00:19:36 Illinois gentlemen greetings uh
00:19:36 --> 00:19:38 regarding the expansion of the universe
00:19:38 --> 00:19:40 it is my understanding that an
00:19:40 --> 00:19:41 accelerating expansion means that
00:19:42 --> 00:19:43 everything in the universe is moving
00:19:43 --> 00:19:46 apart faster and faster this means that
00:19:46 --> 00:19:48 eventually nothing will be visible from
00:19:48 --> 00:19:50 anywhere else does this mean that the
00:19:50 --> 00:19:52 planets in our solar system are moving
00:19:53 --> 00:19:56 apart and that our moon is moving apart
00:19:56 --> 00:20:00 from Earth due to the universe's expans
00:20:00 --> 00:20:01 uh not withstanding what we talked about
00:20:02 --> 00:20:04 in the last episode regarding a new
00:20:04 --> 00:20:06 theory about the expansion of the
00:20:06 --> 00:20:09 universe and dark matter uh let's stick
00:20:09 --> 00:20:10 with the model that we all agree on at
00:20:10 --> 00:20:13 the moment and look he's right it is
00:20:13 --> 00:20:16 expanding everything's moving apart but
00:20:16 --> 00:20:18 there are other factors in play aren't
00:20:18 --> 00:20:21 they afid indeed it's gravity that
00:20:21 --> 00:20:23 dominates on the scale of the solar
00:20:23 --> 00:20:25 system uh we can't feel the expansion of
00:20:25 --> 00:20:27 the Universe on the scale of the solar
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30 system it's to small gravity is the
00:20:30 --> 00:20:32 overwhelmingly important Force it's only
00:20:32 --> 00:20:34 when you get out to you know you start
00:20:34 --> 00:20:36 looking at objects which are perhaps
00:20:36 --> 00:20:39 more than 10 20 million light years away
00:20:39 --> 00:20:42 before you start seeing that expansion
00:20:42 --> 00:20:44 never mind the accelerated expansion and
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46 even if the accelerated expansion does
00:20:46 --> 00:20:49 continue uh until we get the Big Rip
00:20:50 --> 00:20:51 which is what some people think might
00:20:51 --> 00:20:53 happen uh it's going to be a long time
00:20:54 --> 00:20:55 before the distance from the Earth to
00:20:55 --> 00:20:58 the Moon is affected by that particular
00:20:58 --> 00:20:59 geometry
00:20:59 --> 00:21:02 uh gravity is the force what I've never
00:21:02 --> 00:21:05 had clarified for me and there's all
00:21:05 --> 00:21:07 these kind of things is where that
00:21:07 --> 00:21:09 boundary comes so there is other the
00:21:09 --> 00:21:11 local scale of the scale of the Milky
00:21:11 --> 00:21:13 Way even gravity WIS so the Milky Way
00:21:13 --> 00:21:15 gets held together the local cluster
00:21:15 --> 00:21:17 should get held together as well but I
00:21:17 --> 00:21:19 don't know where the threshold is where
00:21:19 --> 00:21:20 it doesn't because the local cluster is
00:21:20 --> 00:21:22 part of a bigger cluster which is part
00:21:22 --> 00:21:25 of a super cluster and at some point you
00:21:25 --> 00:21:28 have this boundary where expansion wins
00:21:28 --> 00:21:30 but if it it has to be link to that
00:21:31 --> 00:21:33 cluster structure so it can't be halfway
00:21:33 --> 00:21:35 across the super cluster because
00:21:35 --> 00:21:36 something halfway across the
00:21:36 --> 00:21:38 supercluster is still attracted to its
00:21:38 --> 00:21:40 neighbors so it comes down to the voids
00:21:40 --> 00:21:43 and everything else and nobody's been
00:21:43 --> 00:21:46 able to give a definitive essentially
00:21:46 --> 00:21:48 Horizon where things will stay closer to
00:21:48 --> 00:21:50 us or where things will move away so I
00:21:50 --> 00:21:51 guess we just don't know that yet we've
00:21:52 --> 00:21:53 not we don't have a deep enough
00:21:53 --> 00:21:55 foundational enough knowledge of the
00:21:55 --> 00:21:56 structure of matter on that kind of
00:21:56 --> 00:21:59 Scale near us to know but I think the
00:21:59 --> 00:22:01 eventual Horizon is of that kind of
00:22:01 --> 00:22:03 scale of the Virgo cluster will still be
00:22:03 --> 00:22:05 just about there but the more distant
00:22:05 --> 00:22:07 structure what I don't know where that
00:22:07 --> 00:22:09 threshold is it's probably a very Wiggly
00:22:10 --> 00:22:11 one because it's going to follow the you
00:22:11 --> 00:22:14 know the inh aacy of what we see around
00:22:14 --> 00:22:18 us in in our local part of the Universe
00:22:18 --> 00:22:21 um it's uh yeah it's a it's a good point
00:22:21 --> 00:22:24 that you know we can't say well beyond
00:22:24 --> 00:22:26 you 50 million light years you're going
00:22:26 --> 00:22:28 to see the expansion dominating uh
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 because it it will depend exactly on the
00:22:30 --> 00:22:34 on the presence I mean um it throws back
00:22:34 --> 00:22:37 to one of the Hot Topics 20 years ago
00:22:37 --> 00:22:39 which was the great ATT tractor uh the
00:22:39 --> 00:22:40 great ATT tractor being this thing
00:22:40 --> 00:22:43 hidden behind the Milky Way That We
00:22:43 --> 00:22:45 Believe now is a part of a of a super
00:22:45 --> 00:22:47 cluster of galaxies uh that seem to be
00:22:47 --> 00:22:49 pulling everything towards it but it's
00:22:49 --> 00:22:52 only in one particular direction uh so
00:22:52 --> 00:22:54 so you've got that kind of thing going
00:22:54 --> 00:22:56 on all around us uh and at different
00:22:56 --> 00:22:59 distances so you yes it would be a a
00:22:59 --> 00:23:01 wiggly you know thinking back to those
00:23:01 --> 00:23:02 Contours you were talking about a minute
00:23:02 --> 00:23:05 ago jonty it's a it's a contour but it's
00:23:05 --> 00:23:07 a very Wiggly one I
00:23:07 --> 00:23:10 think Heritage of this as well I I
00:23:10 --> 00:23:11 always love these things where we detect
00:23:11 --> 00:23:13 something indirectly because that's what
00:23:13 --> 00:23:14 we do with Exel planets now it's how
00:23:14 --> 00:23:16 Neptune was found yeah so we've got
00:23:17 --> 00:23:20 several hundred years of inferring that
00:23:20 --> 00:23:22 something exists when we can't see it
00:23:22 --> 00:23:23 because it's effect on something else
00:23:23 --> 00:23:25 and the great attractor is just another
00:23:25 --> 00:23:27 in a long list of we can't see it but we
00:23:27 --> 00:23:29 know it's there we see what it does to
00:23:29 --> 00:23:31 everything
00:23:31 --> 00:23:35 else I do yeah yeah the great you got
00:23:35 --> 00:23:37 You' Ena me to revive and a really old
00:23:37 --> 00:23:39 dad joke but the great attractor is the
00:23:39 --> 00:23:42 Massie Ferguson because my uncle used to
00:23:42 --> 00:23:45 work for that company but right off John
00:23:45 --> 00:23:47 de um and and as far as expansion's
00:23:47 --> 00:23:49 concerned expansion wins when you eat
00:23:49 --> 00:23:51 too many
00:23:51 --> 00:23:54 donuts it's speeding me too much
00:23:54 --> 00:23:55 information to work with well that's
00:23:55 --> 00:23:57 this is why I'm gradually resembling
00:23:57 --> 00:23:59 Patrick more more more because I growing
00:23:59 --> 00:24:01 vertically when I was 13 and I've just
00:24:01 --> 00:24:03 been spamming horizontally ever since
00:24:03 --> 00:24:05 yeah just don't don't um espouse his
00:24:05 --> 00:24:09 politics that's all JY oh no absolutely
00:24:09 --> 00:24:11 not I lean so far left I'm horizontal
00:24:11 --> 00:24:14 like
00:24:14 --> 00:24:20 many 3 2 one Space Nuts Andrew I was
00:24:20 --> 00:24:24 going to say you know this is a Q&A uh
00:24:24 --> 00:24:26 session uh can I throw in a question for
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 J for it you you questions for because
00:24:29 --> 00:24:31 I'm not um I'm not going to be around
00:24:31 --> 00:24:34 for the next episode so I just want to
00:24:34 --> 00:24:37 know what jonty's take on planet N9 is
00:24:37 --> 00:24:40 oh yes um it it really interesting so
00:24:40 --> 00:24:41 the first paper I ever published back
00:24:41 --> 00:24:45 when I was doing my PhD was debunking
00:24:45 --> 00:24:47 one of the many variants of Planet X and
00:24:47 --> 00:24:49 this is a recurring theme that comes up
00:24:49 --> 00:24:51 about every 15 or 20 years when we get
00:24:51 --> 00:24:53 better data on things that are pushing
00:24:53 --> 00:24:54 the limits of our understanding of the
00:24:54 --> 00:24:57 solar system so in the early 1980s you
00:24:57 --> 00:25:00 had is which was Richard Muller's
00:25:00 --> 00:25:03 hypothesis of a brown dwarf or a red
00:25:03 --> 00:25:05 dwarf orbiting the Sun on a 26 million
00:25:05 --> 00:25:07 year Orbin that was giving us comets
00:25:07 --> 00:25:11 killing caat extinctions and that even
00:25:12 --> 00:25:13 though it sums down now at the time it
00:25:13 --> 00:25:16 was a reasonable possibility as an
00:25:16 --> 00:25:17 explanation of the data that made a
00:25:17 --> 00:25:19 prediction which was if it's there
00:25:19 --> 00:25:21 you'll see it and then we didn't see it
00:25:21 --> 00:25:23 we got good enough satellites to do it
00:25:23 --> 00:25:25 um so that died away and then back when
00:25:25 --> 00:25:29 I started my PhD in 2000 there was a
00:25:29 --> 00:25:32 regurgitation of the idea in this case
00:25:32 --> 00:25:34 being Planet X because Pluto at that
00:25:34 --> 00:25:36 point hadn't yet rightfully been demoted
00:25:36 --> 00:25:39 so people still counted it with a
00:25:39 --> 00:25:42 Grimace um but looking at the data of
00:25:42 --> 00:25:44 where comets come in towards the Sun
00:25:44 --> 00:25:46 from so not their per helium which is
00:25:46 --> 00:25:48 where their closest Sun but where on the
00:25:48 --> 00:25:50 sky their up helion would be their
00:25:50 --> 00:25:51 furthest from the Sun there were
00:25:52 --> 00:25:54 suggestions that there was a bit of an
00:25:54 --> 00:25:56 enhancement of comets coming from a
00:25:56 --> 00:25:57 great circle on the sky so one
00:25:57 --> 00:26:00 particular ring 360 gr around the sky
00:26:00 --> 00:26:03 had more comets than any other and there
00:26:03 --> 00:26:05 were two papers identifying this um The
00:26:05 --> 00:26:07 Twist was that both of them had great
00:26:07 --> 00:26:08 circles that were at right angles to
00:26:08 --> 00:26:12 each other and that didn't agree um so
00:26:12 --> 00:26:14 the first thing I did in my PhD was look
00:26:14 --> 00:26:16 at all this and say well hang on our
00:26:16 --> 00:26:17 discoveries of comets are biased by the
00:26:17 --> 00:26:19 fact that we see them when they're near
00:26:19 --> 00:26:21 the sun we see them at certain months we
00:26:21 --> 00:26:23 see them from the northern hemisphere is
00:26:23 --> 00:26:24 where that all these different biases he
00:26:24 --> 00:26:26 put them in and both great circles
00:26:26 --> 00:26:29 disappear so it was actually a result of
00:26:29 --> 00:26:31 our observational biases and so that one
00:26:31 --> 00:26:33 went away as we got more data and then
00:26:33 --> 00:26:35 what's happened over the last decade or
00:26:35 --> 00:26:38 so is that our ability to find small
00:26:38 --> 00:26:40 objects in the out Sol system has got
00:26:40 --> 00:26:42 better and better so we're starting to
00:26:42 --> 00:26:44 find things out beyond the kind of n
00:26:44 --> 00:26:47 nominal edge of the edge with ker belt
00:26:47 --> 00:26:50 Beyond about 50 Au and these are objects
00:26:50 --> 00:26:52 that are far enough aare that the
00:26:52 --> 00:26:55 influence of the planets isn't enough to
00:26:55 --> 00:26:59 modify their orbits in any real sense
00:26:59 --> 00:27:02 but there has been a set of detections
00:27:02 --> 00:27:04 of objects further out that a bit like
00:27:04 --> 00:27:06 that great circle appear to be more
00:27:06 --> 00:27:08 likely to be found in one part of the
00:27:08 --> 00:27:10 sky than anywhere else now one
00:27:10 --> 00:27:12 explanation for that is that there is
00:27:12 --> 00:27:14 something that we haven't seen that's
00:27:14 --> 00:27:16 further out that is stirring them up and
00:27:16 --> 00:27:18 has coralled them and that works really
00:27:18 --> 00:27:21 well to explain what we see another
00:27:21 --> 00:27:23 explanation is that this is an artifact
00:27:23 --> 00:27:25 of the observational bias because the
00:27:25 --> 00:27:26 survey is primarily done by the Canada
00:27:27 --> 00:27:29 France Hawaii telescope
00:27:29 --> 00:27:32 which sees Northern Hemisphere Sky by
00:27:32 --> 00:27:34 preference to Southern hemisphere has a
00:27:34 --> 00:27:36 varying cycle of cloudiness through the
00:27:36 --> 00:27:38 year it's harder to find these things
00:27:38 --> 00:27:40 where the Milky Way is so there are some
00:27:40 --> 00:27:41 people arguing that this will turn out
00:27:41 --> 00:27:44 to be an observational bias you've also
00:27:44 --> 00:27:48 got a few different versions of Planet X
00:27:48 --> 00:27:50 being proposed so the most famous one is
00:27:50 --> 00:27:51 the one that gets talked about a lot
00:27:51 --> 00:27:53 which is Ban and people like that
00:27:54 --> 00:27:56 talking about a fairly massive Planet X
00:27:56 --> 00:27:57 but a really good friend of mine who
00:27:57 --> 00:27:59 actually visited me unq a couple of
00:27:59 --> 00:28:02 months ago Patrick Saia Leafa from Japan
00:28:02 --> 00:28:04 there's been quietly running simulations
00:28:04 --> 00:28:08 looking at an earth Mass object which
00:28:08 --> 00:28:10 would work from the point of view of our
00:28:10 --> 00:28:11 understanding of the formation of the
00:28:11 --> 00:28:12 giant planets you would have formed a
00:28:12 --> 00:28:14 lot of objects that size that were then
00:28:14 --> 00:28:17 ejected that weren't Incorporated some
00:28:17 --> 00:28:18 of which will have been ejected but not
00:28:18 --> 00:28:21 fully ejected so you could have Earth
00:28:21 --> 00:28:23 sized objects in the alt Cloud quite
00:28:23 --> 00:28:25 reasonably and he's been looking at the
00:28:25 --> 00:28:27 distributions of all these things Beyond
00:28:27 --> 00:28:29 Neptune if you had something the mass of
00:28:29 --> 00:28:32 the Earth two or three or 400 Au away
00:28:32 --> 00:28:34 that we couldn't conly detect but we'll
00:28:34 --> 00:28:35 be able to find in the next five or 10
00:28:35 --> 00:28:39 years and that does a really good job of
00:28:39 --> 00:28:41 explaining the groups of objects we
00:28:41 --> 00:28:43 can't currently explain doesn't mean
00:28:43 --> 00:28:45 it's right what it's doing is saying
00:28:45 --> 00:28:47 here is something we can't explain
00:28:47 --> 00:28:49 observationally here's a couple of
00:28:49 --> 00:28:51 different teams proposing hypotheses
00:28:51 --> 00:28:53 that do were really good job of fitting
00:28:53 --> 00:28:55 the data and explaining what we
00:28:55 --> 00:28:57 otherwise can't do and they then make a
00:28:57 --> 00:28:59 prediction in both cases which is as
00:28:59 --> 00:29:01 Vera Rubin comes online this incredible
00:29:01 --> 00:29:03 new Observatory there going to increase
00:29:03 --> 00:29:05 the number of objects We Know by a
00:29:05 --> 00:29:07 factor of 10 to 100 times in the solar
00:29:07 --> 00:29:09 system we'll certainly have a lot more
00:29:09 --> 00:29:12 data and if these theories are correct
00:29:12 --> 00:29:15 these data will support them if not
00:29:15 --> 00:29:17 they'll shoot them down now I think
00:29:17 --> 00:29:20 given the past history of Nemesis and
00:29:20 --> 00:29:23 Planet X people are understandably very
00:29:23 --> 00:29:25 skeptical but it's very good science
00:29:25 --> 00:29:28 been done by really reputable scientists
00:29:28 --> 00:29:29 who are not saying this is definitely
00:29:29 --> 00:29:31 there they're saying here's something we
00:29:31 --> 00:29:33 cannot explain here is one way of
00:29:33 --> 00:29:36 explaining it that works really well and
00:29:36 --> 00:29:38 fits with the observational contraints
00:29:38 --> 00:29:40 we currently have it the truth could be
00:29:40 --> 00:29:42 out there you know it's kind of xal
00:29:42 --> 00:29:45 thing but we won't know until we get
00:29:45 --> 00:29:47 more data when that data comes in this
00:29:47 --> 00:29:49 is what we should look for and that's
00:29:49 --> 00:29:51 really important because if you do some
00:29:51 --> 00:29:53 modeling and and some solar system
00:29:53 --> 00:29:54 groups have done this in the past with
00:29:54 --> 00:29:57 very famous models that explain very
00:29:57 --> 00:29:59 well what we currently see but nothing
00:29:59 --> 00:30:02 else they don't make predictions of what
00:30:02 --> 00:30:04 we don't currently see then that to me
00:30:04 --> 00:30:05 stamp collecting it's not actually
00:30:05 --> 00:30:07 science because there's an infinite
00:30:07 --> 00:30:09 number of ways of explaining what we
00:30:09 --> 00:30:11 currently see and what both these models
00:30:11 --> 00:30:12 are doing really well is they're
00:30:12 --> 00:30:13 explaining what we currently see but
00:30:13 --> 00:30:15 also predicting what we will find in the
00:30:15 --> 00:30:18 future if their model is correct and if
00:30:18 --> 00:30:20 their model is not correct so they're
00:30:20 --> 00:30:22 testable hypotheses and that's really
00:30:23 --> 00:30:25 important because that sh how we do our
00:30:25 --> 00:30:27 future science what we look for so I
00:30:27 --> 00:30:30 find it really exciting I'm you know
00:30:30 --> 00:30:32 really Keen to see what happens with the
00:30:32 --> 00:30:34 very situations on planet 9 over the
00:30:34 --> 00:30:37 coming decades and it if it dies down
00:30:37 --> 00:30:39 I'm sure that in 20 30 years when we get
00:30:39 --> 00:30:41 the next generation of next generation
00:30:41 --> 00:30:43 of next generation of telescopes the
00:30:43 --> 00:30:45 idea might come up again because we're
00:30:45 --> 00:30:47 looking at this ever growing Circle of
00:30:47 --> 00:30:48 Knowledge around the soul system but
00:30:48 --> 00:30:51 it's not that big yet so the the five
00:30:51 --> 00:30:53 minutes You' to spend on that could have
00:30:53 --> 00:30:56 been answered with a maybe with a maybe
00:30:56 --> 00:30:59 but I think it's it's important to
00:30:59 --> 00:31:00 clarify that this is good science
00:31:00 --> 00:31:02 because it does sometimes get passed off
00:31:02 --> 00:31:04 as a bit of a joke because it's a past
00:31:04 --> 00:31:06 history of things falling flat and those
00:31:06 --> 00:31:08 things that fell flat were also very
00:31:08 --> 00:31:11 good science it's just this is the way
00:31:11 --> 00:31:14 science gets done and it runs counter to
00:31:14 --> 00:31:15 the opinion that a lot of people get
00:31:15 --> 00:31:17 when they come out of school because of
00:31:17 --> 00:31:19 the challenges of the curriculum that
00:31:19 --> 00:31:21 science is fapped and is science sealed
00:31:21 --> 00:31:22 and delivered and it's one of the
00:31:22 --> 00:31:24 problems we've seen with accepting that
00:31:24 --> 00:31:26 cigarettes cause cancer accepting that
00:31:26 --> 00:31:28 climate change is an issue
00:31:28 --> 00:31:31 is that people get taught that science
00:31:31 --> 00:31:33 is signed and sealed and delivered and
00:31:33 --> 00:31:35 then when things change like Pluto is
00:31:35 --> 00:31:37 demoted that feels like a betrayal it
00:31:37 --> 00:31:39 feels like you've been lied to that
00:31:40 --> 00:31:43 somehow things nefarious are going on
00:31:43 --> 00:31:46 and it makes it much harder then to get
00:31:46 --> 00:31:49 changes in our understanding through and
00:31:49 --> 00:31:50 so it's really important to stress that
00:31:50 --> 00:31:51 this is how science works and this is
00:31:51 --> 00:31:54 really good science no fair point great
00:31:54 --> 00:31:58 Point very good very good um jents
00:31:58 --> 00:31:59 that's where we're going to have to
00:31:59 --> 00:32:02 finish up uh thank you so very much
00:32:02 --> 00:32:04 Professor Fred Watson and and enjoy your
00:32:04 --> 00:32:07 travels and we will catch up with you uh
00:32:07 --> 00:32:09 round like February botle look of it
00:32:09 --> 00:32:11 rounds like it y thank you Andrew thank
00:32:11 --> 00:32:13 you jont T and I look forward to um
00:32:13 --> 00:32:16 listening to Space Nuts podcast without
00:32:16 --> 00:32:17 being on
00:32:18 --> 00:32:20 it that would be rare yeah that's just
00:32:20 --> 00:32:24 plenty of thought okay yes please do and
00:32:24 --> 00:32:26 uh Professor Johny Horner thank you for
00:32:26 --> 00:32:29 being a part of uh space Q&A today as
00:32:29 --> 00:32:31 well we'll catch you on the next episode
00:32:31 --> 00:32:33 it's a pleasure thank you for having me
00:32:33 --> 00:32:35 and thanks to H in the studio who
00:32:35 --> 00:32:37 couldn't really do much because he was
00:32:37 --> 00:32:39 caught in the ultimate lrange point and
00:32:39 --> 00:32:41 from me Andrew Dunley oh don't forget to
00:32:41 --> 00:32:43 send us your questions via our website
00:32:43 --> 00:32:46 Space Nuts podcast.com SPAC nuts.i get
00:32:46 --> 00:32:47 your questions in we'll get to them as
00:32:48 --> 00:32:50 soon as we possibly can uh so from me
00:32:50 --> 00:32:52 Andrew Dunley thanks to your company see
00:32:52 --> 00:32:53 you again on the next episode of Space
00:32:53 --> 00:32:56 Nuts bye-bye Space Nuts you'll be
00:32:56 --> 00:32:59 listening to the space face nuts
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