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Space Exploration: Blue Origin's Explosive Test and the Mysteries of the Universe In this thrilling episode of Space Nuts , hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson reunite to discuss a range of captivating topics, including the recent explosive test of Blue Origin's New Glenn rocket, primordial black holes, and the ongoing debate around dark energy. Buckle up as we delve into the cosmos and explore these fascinating themes.
Episode Highlights:
- Blue Origin's Test Launch: The episode kicks off with an analysis of the dramatic Blue Origin test that resulted in an explosive incident at Cape Canaveral, raising questions about the future of the Artemis programme and the implications for upcoming lunar missions.
- Primordial Black Holes: Andrew and Fred Watson discuss a recent microlensing event observed in the Large Magellanic Cloud, exploring the possibility that the mysterious object, dubbed Phoebe, could be a primordial black hole, a concept first proposed by Stephen Hawking.
- Gravitational Microlensing Explained: The hosts break down the phenomenon of gravitational microlensing, illustrating how invisible objects can magnify the light of distant stars and what this means for our understanding of dark matter and the universe.
- Dark Energy: A Possible Furphy? A thought-provoking discussion ensues about the nature of dark energy, with insights from a recent paper suggesting that our current model of the universe may be oversimplified, raising the possibility that dark energy may not be necessary at all.
For more Space Nuts, including our continuously updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. (https://www.spacenutspodcast.com/) Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on Facebook, Instagram, and more. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favourite platform.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
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- Blue Origin's Explosive Test
- Understanding Primordial Black Holes
- Gravitational Microlensing Phenomenon
- The Debate Around Dark Energy
- Implications for Future Space Exploration
Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/33758087?utm_source=youtube
00:00:02 --> 00:00:04 Hello again. Thank you for joining us.
00:00:04 --> 00:00:06 This is Space Nuts, where we talk
00:00:06 --> 00:00:09 astronomy and space science. My name is
00:00:09 --> 00:00:10 Andrew Dunley. Great to have your
00:00:10 --> 00:00:12 company. Well, you've probably been
00:00:12 --> 00:00:15 listening to Jonty for the last few
00:00:15 --> 00:00:18 weeks with Fred overseas, gallivanting
00:00:18 --> 00:00:22 as he does. He loves to gallivant. And
00:00:22 --> 00:00:24 he's back. And what we're going to talk
00:00:24 --> 00:00:26 about today, uh, all sorts of things.
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28 The Blue Origin blowout. You've probably
00:00:28 --> 00:00:31 seen the footage. Wow. Uh, primordial
00:00:31 --> 00:00:33 black holes, gravitational micro
00:00:33 --> 00:00:36 lensing, and is dark matter a fury.
00:00:36 --> 00:00:38 We'll deal with all of that today on
00:00:38 --> 00:00:40 Space Nuts.
00:00:40 --> 00:00:44 >> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9g
00:00:44 --> 00:00:46 Ignition sequence start.
00:00:46 --> 00:00:47 >> Space nuts.
00:00:47 --> 00:00:52 >> 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 4 3 2 1
00:00:52 --> 00:00:53 >> Space Nuts.
00:00:53 --> 00:00:56 >> Astronauts report. It feels good.
00:00:56 --> 00:00:59 >> And he's back. and he's looking well.
00:00:59 --> 00:01:01 It's Professor Fred Watson, astronomer
00:01:01 --> 00:01:03 at large. Hello, Fred.
00:01:03 --> 00:01:04 >> Hello, Andrew. You're looking well, too.
00:01:04 --> 00:01:05 It's nice to see you.
00:01:05 --> 00:01:07 >> Yeah, it's good to see you, too. I mean,
00:01:08 --> 00:01:09 it's been a while for both of us
00:01:09 --> 00:01:12 because, uh, we had to do a lot of
00:01:12 --> 00:01:14 catchup episodes, but we didn't quite
00:01:14 --> 00:01:16 have enough time to cover everything, so
00:01:16 --> 00:01:17 we brought Jonty in.
00:01:17 --> 00:01:20 >> Uh, but he and I had to do catchup
00:01:20 --> 00:01:23 episodes to cover an absence of mine.
00:01:23 --> 00:01:26 So, um I haven't actually recorded with
00:01:26 --> 00:01:28 you for quite a while.
00:01:28 --> 00:01:30 >> Yes. Yeah. Must be a couple of months or
00:01:30 --> 00:01:30 so.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:32 >> Yeah, it would be. But it doesn't sound
00:01:32 --> 00:01:34 like that to the audience. Really?
00:01:34 --> 00:01:35 >> No, probably not.
00:01:35 --> 00:01:39 >> Yes. It's all witchery.
00:01:39 --> 00:01:41 >> Well, we Yeah, I think so. I think so.
00:01:41 --> 00:01:42 Yeah, there's at least two or three of
00:01:42 --> 00:01:43 them.
00:01:43 --> 00:01:44 >> Yeah. Okay, good.
00:01:44 --> 00:01:47 >> So, where did where did you go? You you
00:01:47 --> 00:01:48 were all over the place.
00:01:48 --> 00:01:51 >> Uh yes. So it was uh a conference in
00:01:51 --> 00:01:53 Germany that took me up to Europe and
00:01:53 --> 00:01:56 that that actually wasn't really
00:01:56 --> 00:01:59 interesting um because in fact I was
00:01:59 --> 00:02:01 going to Scotland before that. I had a
00:02:01 --> 00:02:03 week with my daughters in Scotland and
00:02:03 --> 00:02:05 then off to Germany. But the trip there
00:02:05 --> 00:02:08 of course um we can't fly through the
00:02:08 --> 00:02:10 Middle East at the moment because of the
00:02:10 --> 00:02:15 war going on there. And so my flight via
00:02:15 --> 00:02:17 via Dubai, they were long cancelled, but
00:02:17 --> 00:02:20 Marley managed to pull me a flight up to
00:02:20 --> 00:02:24 Seoul in Korea. And then on thin air
00:02:24 --> 00:02:27 from Soul over the North Pole, and I've
00:02:27 --> 00:02:29 actually got a certificate to prove that
00:02:29 --> 00:02:32 I've been over the North Pole. It's over
00:02:32 --> 00:02:34 there. I can't go and grab it, but
00:02:34 --> 00:02:36 >> uh and then into into Helsinki, and then
00:02:36 --> 00:02:40 yes, it was cold. Then then um uh across
00:02:40 --> 00:02:42 to Edinburgh. So the the polar flight
00:02:42 --> 00:02:43 was really interesting because we
00:02:43 --> 00:02:47 started off in Seoul in Korea uh and
00:02:47 --> 00:02:50 then you know took off uh with with Vin
00:02:50 --> 00:02:53 Air and I expected us to head towards
00:02:53 --> 00:02:56 the towards the west cuz that's what you
00:02:56 --> 00:02:59 do. Uh but no, we headed to the east.
00:02:59 --> 00:02:59 Wow.
00:03:00 --> 00:03:03 >> And we actually went up between Russia
00:03:03 --> 00:03:06 and America. So up the Bearing Straight.
00:03:06 --> 00:03:07 Wow.
00:03:07 --> 00:03:09 >> So, it went far enough east that you
00:03:09 --> 00:03:11 could turn north right up the bearing
00:03:11 --> 00:03:12 straight. So, you got Russia on one
00:03:12 --> 00:03:14 side, America on the other, and then
00:03:14 --> 00:03:17 over the North Pole uh with with a
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19 little Polar certificate to prove it.
00:03:19 --> 00:03:21 Nice touchdown in Helsinki. Yeah.
00:03:21 --> 00:03:23 >> Uh an hour or so there, then a nice
00:03:23 --> 00:03:25 flight over to Edinburgh. And there was
00:03:25 --> 00:03:28 with my daughter directly. It was great.
00:03:28 --> 00:03:31 >> Yeah. Fantastic. Um I've got an Arctic
00:03:31 --> 00:03:33 Circle certificate, I think.
00:03:33 --> 00:03:34 >> Yes, you will have. Yeah, I've got one
00:03:34 --> 00:03:35 of those as well, a North Cape
00:03:35 --> 00:03:36 certificate, in fact.
00:03:36 --> 00:03:38 >> Oh, yeah.
00:03:38 --> 00:03:40 >> Yeah. Um, but the conference I went to
00:03:40 --> 00:03:43 in Germany, uh, was, um, it was the 60th
00:03:44 --> 00:03:46 birthday conference of a colleague with
00:03:46 --> 00:03:48 whom I've worked very closely, uh, on
00:03:48 --> 00:03:50 the rave survey, which we've talked
00:03:50 --> 00:03:51 about before, the radio velocity
00:03:51 --> 00:03:54 experiment. Uh, Matias Steinmet's hair,
00:03:54 --> 00:03:57 Dr. Professor Matias Steinmets, uh, very
00:03:57 --> 00:03:59 senior German astronomer now. He, uh,
00:04:00 --> 00:04:01 led the project. I was the project
00:04:01 --> 00:04:03 manager. So we worked very closely
00:04:03 --> 00:04:05 together with a team of people most of
00:04:05 --> 00:04:07 whom were at the conference to celebrate
00:04:07 --> 00:04:10 his 60th birthday. So I was the sole
00:04:10 --> 00:04:12 Australian representative so they made a
00:04:12 --> 00:04:14 bit of a fuss of me which was nice. Uh I
00:04:14 --> 00:04:17 got the the kickoff talk and uh and they
00:04:17 --> 00:04:19 they looked after me. Uh so it was very
00:04:19 --> 00:04:21 very good and I I picked up a lot of
00:04:21 --> 00:04:24 what's happening currently in the field
00:04:24 --> 00:04:25 of science that we're doing. Well we
00:04:25 --> 00:04:26 might mention some of that a bit later
00:04:26 --> 00:04:27 on in the show.
00:04:27 --> 00:04:30 >> Sounds good. Uh my trip uh was a little
00:04:30 --> 00:04:32 closer to home, only a 9-hour flight
00:04:32 --> 00:04:35 away. We went to uh Vietnam for two and
00:04:35 --> 00:04:37 a half weeks. And uh people jokingly
00:04:37 --> 00:04:40 said to me, "Don't mention the war." But
00:04:40 --> 00:04:42 don't mention the war. M
00:04:42 --> 00:04:44 >> it's uh it's still very sensitive
00:04:44 --> 00:04:46 subject and and imagine
00:04:46 --> 00:04:48 >> what blew my mind and this will be of
00:04:48 --> 00:04:51 interest to um I suppose American
00:04:51 --> 00:04:53 listeners because of America's
00:04:53 --> 00:04:55 involvement in the Vietnam War but um
00:04:55 --> 00:04:57 there is still strong division between
00:04:58 --> 00:04:59 North and South
00:04:59 --> 00:05:02 >> and it hasn't been forgotten even 50
00:05:02 --> 00:05:05 years after it ended there's still very
00:05:05 --> 00:05:08 much focused on the aftermath of of that
00:05:08 --> 00:05:11 conflict
00:05:11 --> 00:05:12 >> I suppose just because it had it was
00:05:12 --> 00:05:14 such a defining time in their history.
00:05:14 --> 00:05:17 And uh I mean the Vietnam War was only a
00:05:17 --> 00:05:18 part of what they dealt with. They
00:05:18 --> 00:05:21 they'd been dealing with colonialism
00:05:21 --> 00:05:25 prior to that from France for for
00:05:25 --> 00:05:27 decades and decades.
00:05:27 --> 00:05:30 >> Uh so it's quite extraordinary. There
00:05:30 --> 00:05:34 was a a great uh documentary series I
00:05:34 --> 00:05:36 think it was on SPS in Australia called
00:05:36 --> 00:05:39 The Birth of a Nation. And uh one of our
00:05:39 --> 00:05:41 guides actually mentioned it and said,
00:05:41 --> 00:05:43 "We'd love to see it over here, but
00:05:43 --> 00:05:45 we're not allowed."
00:05:45 --> 00:05:46 >> Oh, interesting.
00:05:46 --> 00:05:49 >> So, I watched it and um I'm going to try
00:05:49 --> 00:05:50 and figure out how to get it to him, but
00:05:50 --> 00:05:52 I don't know. I don't know.
00:05:52 --> 00:05:52 >> We'll see.
00:05:52 --> 00:05:56 >> You could get You could run a foul of uh
00:05:56 --> 00:05:58 diplomatic nicities if you tried that.
00:05:58 --> 00:05:59 Who knows?
00:05:59 --> 00:06:01 >> Could do. Could do. Anyway,
00:06:01 --> 00:06:02 >> especially if you talk about it on a
00:06:02 --> 00:06:03 public podcast.
00:06:03 --> 00:06:07 >> Yeah, maybe like you are doing now. Am
00:06:07 --> 00:06:08 I?
00:06:08 --> 00:06:09 >> They're probably not allowed to watch
00:06:09 --> 00:06:11 this over in Vietnam either.
00:06:11 --> 00:06:13 >> Maybe not. Maybe not.
00:06:13 --> 00:06:14 >> It was funny though cuz I was posting
00:06:14 --> 00:06:17 posting uh some little videos. I like
00:06:17 --> 00:06:18 like to do little videos while I'm away
00:06:18 --> 00:06:20 and I was posting them on Tik Tok. I
00:06:20 --> 00:06:24 picked up 140 Vietnamese followers.
00:06:24 --> 00:06:26 >> Oh, that's fantastic.
00:06:26 --> 00:06:27 >> Yeah, I thought it was cool.
00:06:27 --> 00:06:29 >> There you go. That at least I can watch
00:06:29 --> 00:06:30 your Tik Tok stuff.
00:06:30 --> 00:06:33 >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh particularly the one I
00:06:33 --> 00:06:35 did at uh Harong Bay. It's beautiful
00:06:35 --> 00:06:37 part of the world. And I only did a
00:06:37 --> 00:06:40 60-second sort of 360 degree scan of the
00:06:40 --> 00:06:43 the place. But uh for some reason that
00:06:43 --> 00:06:45 video's gone nuts. It's uh at last count
00:06:45 --> 00:06:48 had 14 and a half thousand views.
00:06:48 --> 00:06:49 >> Whoa.
00:06:50 --> 00:06:52 >> I don't understand it, but uh yeah, that
00:06:52 --> 00:06:54 was nice.
00:06:54 --> 00:06:55 >> And we did all the other stuff. Train
00:06:55 --> 00:06:57 Street, you know, where the train runs
00:06:57 --> 00:06:59 next to the cafes in in um
00:06:59 --> 00:07:01 >> No, I didn't. Yeah. Yeah. It's very
00:07:01 --> 00:07:01 popular.
00:07:02 --> 00:07:03 >> Somewhere I should go.
00:07:03 --> 00:07:05 >> Yeah. uh up in Hanoi and uh many other
00:07:05 --> 00:07:07 places. I won't I won't bore people to
00:07:07 --> 00:07:09 tears with it. We got to get down to
00:07:09 --> 00:07:12 business. Uh our first topic, Fred, is
00:07:12 --> 00:07:16 very explosive. This is the um the the
00:07:16 --> 00:07:19 Blue Origin not launch that happened the
00:07:19 --> 00:07:21 other day. Uh in fact, I don't even
00:07:21 --> 00:07:23 think it got an inch off the ground
00:07:23 --> 00:07:25 before it went up in a beautiful um
00:07:26 --> 00:07:27 nuclear plume.
00:07:27 --> 00:07:29 >> It was very like a nuclear plume. And
00:07:29 --> 00:07:31 no, it wasn't actually meant to get off
00:07:31 --> 00:07:33 the ground. This was a fire test. So it
00:07:33 --> 00:07:35 was fired. All right.
00:07:35 --> 00:07:39 >> Yeah, it did. Uh it was um um Yes.
00:07:39 --> 00:07:42 Basically testing out the engines for
00:07:42 --> 00:07:44 for a launch that was forthcoming that
00:07:44 --> 00:07:47 was going to take a whole lot of sat uh
00:07:47 --> 00:07:50 telecommunication satellites
00:07:50 --> 00:07:53 uh up uh into orbit. Uh they were
00:07:53 --> 00:07:56 fortunately not on the rocket. Um I
00:07:56 --> 00:07:59 think there were uh the Amazon Leo uh
00:07:59 --> 00:08:01 satellites which is the what used to be
00:08:01 --> 00:08:04 called Kiper uh and is perhaps the
00:08:04 --> 00:08:07 principal com competitor potentially to
00:08:07 --> 00:08:10 Starink. Um uh anyway the satellites
00:08:10 --> 00:08:15 were not on the on the booster uh and uh
00:08:16 --> 00:08:19 it's basically was to test fire it seven
00:08:19 --> 00:08:21 engines. This is the new Glenn booster
00:08:21 --> 00:08:24 which is Blue Origin's heavy lift
00:08:24 --> 00:08:27 booster. It's not as heavy lift as the
00:08:27 --> 00:08:31 SpaceX uh super heavy uh booster that
00:08:31 --> 00:08:32 takes the Starship up.
00:08:32 --> 00:08:34 >> It's not lifting anything now, is it?
00:08:34 --> 00:08:38 >> Uh it's not. No. And uh what's it it's
00:08:38 --> 00:08:41 got sort of serious ramifications
00:08:41 --> 00:08:43 because not only did they blow up the
00:08:44 --> 00:08:45 rocket, they also blew up the launch
00:08:45 --> 00:08:48 pad. Uh effectively there's a lot of
00:08:48 --> 00:08:51 damage uh to the launchpad which is if I
00:08:51 --> 00:08:53 remember right, it is at Cape Canaveral.
00:08:53 --> 00:08:57 >> Yeah, I think so. Uh and um that uh
00:08:57 --> 00:08:59 explosion has caused damage that people
00:08:59 --> 00:09:02 are now talking about several months if
00:09:02 --> 00:09:05 not a year or so to repair. Uh and
00:09:06 --> 00:09:07 that's bad because that's the only
00:09:07 --> 00:09:09 facility in the world that can launch
00:09:09 --> 00:09:11 the new Glenn booster.
00:09:11 --> 00:09:13 >> And the new Glen booster is needed for
00:09:13 --> 00:09:17 the Arteimus program. Uh uh in
00:09:17 --> 00:09:20 particular uh later this year there was
00:09:20 --> 00:09:24 supposed to be a test launch of the
00:09:24 --> 00:09:27 their Blue Moon lander. This is Blue
00:09:27 --> 00:09:31 Origins Luna lander um which is the uh
00:09:31 --> 00:09:35 the um basically uh the competition if I
00:09:36 --> 00:09:38 can put it that way with the SpaceX
00:09:38 --> 00:09:41 Starship. So NASA contracted both SpaceX
00:09:41 --> 00:09:44 and Blue Origin to develop a lander,
00:09:44 --> 00:09:47 Luna lander for the moon. SP X has
00:09:47 --> 00:09:51 theirs based on the Starship. Um this
00:09:51 --> 00:09:53 what is it 4 to 50 m tall? It's
00:09:53 --> 00:09:54 colossal.
00:09:54 --> 00:09:56 >> Uh to land that on a rough surface on
00:09:56 --> 00:09:59 the moon, I'm not sure I'd be that keen
00:09:59 --> 00:10:02 on that, but never mind. uh the uh the
00:10:02 --> 00:10:06 Blue Origin version, the Blue uh Blue
00:10:06 --> 00:10:08 Moon as it's called. Uh that is only
00:10:08 --> 00:10:12 eight stories high. Uh so it's it's uh
00:10:12 --> 00:10:15 shorter. Uh but these two are both in
00:10:15 --> 00:10:17 the running to land the first astronauts
00:10:17 --> 00:10:20 on the lunar surface in 2028. Yeah. Uh
00:10:20 --> 00:10:23 so um there was going to be a test of uh
00:10:23 --> 00:10:27 the the U New Glenn heavy lifter lifting
00:10:27 --> 00:10:32 up a blue moon um landing vehicle uh a
00:10:32 --> 00:10:35 prototype landing vehicle uh into into
00:10:35 --> 00:10:36 orbit and actually to touch it down on
00:10:36 --> 00:10:38 the moon and that was supposed to happen
00:10:38 --> 00:10:40 this year. That's clearly off the agenda
00:10:40 --> 00:10:43 now. Yeah. Uh and so um it's not going
00:10:43 --> 00:10:44 to happen. Actually, it's a little bit
00:10:44 --> 00:10:47 sad because I've just read today that
00:10:47 --> 00:10:50 that Luna lander um which of course
00:10:50 --> 00:10:51 wasn't on board the rocket when it
00:10:51 --> 00:10:53 exploded has just passed with flying
00:10:53 --> 00:10:56 colors its environmental test. There's
00:10:56 --> 00:10:58 an environmental test that everything
00:10:58 --> 00:11:00 goes through. is in a huge vacuum
00:11:00 --> 00:11:04 chamber um which is a NASA facility
00:11:04 --> 00:11:08 uh and you can you can change the uh the
00:11:08 --> 00:11:11 temperature to match those huge extremes
00:11:11 --> 00:11:12 of temperature that you would get on the
00:11:12 --> 00:11:15 moon. Uh so there the their prototype
00:11:15 --> 00:11:18 lunar lander the blue moon mark1 which
00:11:18 --> 00:11:21 is called endurance which is a great
00:11:21 --> 00:11:23 name because that's not what's happened
00:11:23 --> 00:11:25 to the booster but endurance has passed
00:11:25 --> 00:11:27 with flying colors. Sadly, at the
00:11:27 --> 00:11:28 moment, there's nothing to take it into
00:11:28 --> 00:11:31 space. So, we'll have to see how that
00:11:31 --> 00:11:31 evolves.
00:11:31 --> 00:11:35 >> Yeah, I think you you and I spoke about
00:11:35 --> 00:11:37 NASA looking at other options other than
00:11:37 --> 00:11:40 SpaceX um not long before you you went
00:11:40 --> 00:11:45 away and um and and now this is kind of,
00:11:45 --> 00:11:47 >> for one of a better term, blown up in
00:11:47 --> 00:11:49 Blue Origin's face because that takes
00:11:49 --> 00:11:51 them off the table, doesn't it? Uh it
00:11:51 --> 00:11:54 seems to for a while unless they can do
00:11:54 --> 00:11:58 some very rapid repairs to the launch
00:11:58 --> 00:12:01 vehic uh the sorry the launch site
00:12:01 --> 00:12:03 >> uh the launch facility. So yeah it could
00:12:03 --> 00:12:06 push back. So the idea was that late
00:12:06 --> 00:12:09 next year uh there would be the Optimus
00:12:09 --> 00:12:12 3 flight which would consist of these
00:12:12 --> 00:12:15 two potential lunar landing vehicles. Um
00:12:16 --> 00:12:18 the Starship on Space X's side, the Blue
00:12:18 --> 00:12:21 Moon on Blue Origin side. They were both
00:12:21 --> 00:12:23 going to be launched into Earth orbit uh
00:12:24 --> 00:12:27 to have um rendevous tests uh to
00:12:27 --> 00:12:29 demonstrate that their viability. Uh
00:12:29 --> 00:12:32 when you link them to the space launch
00:12:32 --> 00:12:34 system, the the basically the Orion
00:12:34 --> 00:12:36 spacecraft, which is what took the
00:12:36 --> 00:12:38 Arteimus 2 astronauts around the moon,
00:12:38 --> 00:12:41 that will take Artemis 3, beg you
00:12:41 --> 00:12:44 pardon, Otimus 4 astronauts to the moon,
00:12:44 --> 00:12:46 but to land they've got to transfer into
00:12:46 --> 00:12:48 another spacecraft and land on the lunar
00:12:48 --> 00:12:52 surface. So all that I think is being
00:12:52 --> 00:12:54 thrown into question uh with this
00:12:54 --> 00:12:56 explosion. We will wait to see. It's
00:12:56 --> 00:12:57 still too early. We don't even know what
00:12:58 --> 00:13:01 caused it yet. Uh it's it was only uh
00:13:01 --> 00:13:04 less than a week ago as we as we speak.
00:13:04 --> 00:13:07 Uh it was so we don't actually know what
00:13:07 --> 00:13:09 the consequences are likely to be, but
00:13:09 --> 00:13:11 they could be quite serious for the
00:13:12 --> 00:13:13 Otimus program.
00:13:13 --> 00:13:16 >> Yeah. Uh, I mean, uh, I think Elon Musk
00:13:16 --> 00:13:19 calls these things, um, successful
00:13:19 --> 00:13:22 failures. I I don't know.
00:13:22 --> 00:13:24 >> A rapid unscheduled disintegration.
00:13:24 --> 00:13:26 >> Yes. I don't know what Jeff Bezos calls
00:13:26 --> 00:13:29 them, but um,
00:13:29 --> 00:13:30 >> yeah, hopefully they can get down to the
00:13:30 --> 00:13:32 bottom of it, but it Yeah, it does throw
00:13:32 --> 00:13:34 a spanner into the works. Maybe it was a
00:13:34 --> 00:13:35 spanner thrown into the works that
00:13:35 --> 00:13:38 caused the explosion. Who who knows? The
00:13:38 --> 00:13:40 the one good news story part of the
00:13:40 --> 00:13:43 story is nobody was injured.
00:13:43 --> 00:13:45 Yeah. Wow. Because it, you know, when
00:13:45 --> 00:13:46 you, as you said, it looked like a
00:13:46 --> 00:13:49 nuclear explosion. It was incredible.
00:13:49 --> 00:13:52 >> Uh, and um the so there was huge
00:13:52 --> 00:13:54 potential for injury there, but but
00:13:54 --> 00:13:55 everybody was accounted for.
00:13:56 --> 00:13:59 >> I I actually read today that some people
00:13:59 --> 00:14:02 who watched the explosion
00:14:02 --> 00:14:03 um this this sort of demonstrates how
00:14:03 --> 00:14:08 big and powerful it was took 37 seconds
00:14:08 --> 00:14:11 to feel the shock wave.
00:14:11 --> 00:14:13 >> Really? So they must have been a long
00:14:13 --> 00:14:13 way away.
00:14:13 --> 00:14:15 >> Yeah. But they could see it quite
00:14:15 --> 00:14:17 clearly. It was such a big explosion.
00:14:17 --> 00:14:19 But the shock wave took 37 seconds to
00:14:20 --> 00:14:20 reach
00:14:20 --> 00:14:23 >> there. That's amazing.
00:14:23 --> 00:14:26 >> Yeah. All right. Um so uh yeah, it it
00:14:26 --> 00:14:28 does sort of throw into question the
00:14:28 --> 00:14:31 future of Blue Origin um partnering with
00:14:31 --> 00:14:35 NASA for Artimus 3, but uh never write
00:14:35 --> 00:14:39 these people off. I've I've discovered
00:14:39 --> 00:14:42 >> we're not doing that. Um they will rise
00:14:42 --> 00:14:44 phoenix-l like from the ashes but it the
00:14:44 --> 00:14:46 question is how soon and what it will do
00:14:46 --> 00:14:47 to NASA's schedule.
00:14:47 --> 00:14:49 >> Exactly with Artemis. Yeah.
00:14:49 --> 00:14:51 >> More to come on that and you can read
00:14:51 --> 00:14:54 about it uh at the conversation website.
00:14:54 --> 00:14:56 This is Space Nuts. Andrew Dunley with
00:14:56 --> 00:15:00 Professor Fred Watson.
00:15:00 --> 00:15:01 Let's take a short break from the show
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00:16:47 --> 00:16:49 >> Okay, we checked all four systems and
00:16:50 --> 00:16:50 with the go.
00:16:50 --> 00:16:51 >> Space Nuts
00:16:51 --> 00:16:55 >> now. And next story, Fred, uh, has a lot
00:16:55 --> 00:16:57 of moving parts as well. Nothing
00:16:57 --> 00:17:00 explosive, but uh, we're we're talking
00:17:00 --> 00:17:02 what primordial black holes and
00:17:02 --> 00:17:04 gravitational microlensing. Is that is
00:17:04 --> 00:17:05 that
00:17:05 --> 00:17:06 >> what it's about?
00:17:06 --> 00:17:08 >> It it's uh certainly the gravitational
00:17:08 --> 00:17:11 microlensing. Uh, what it means for
00:17:11 --> 00:17:14 primordial black holes, we remains to be
00:17:14 --> 00:17:16 seen, but uh, it's a good opportunity to
00:17:16 --> 00:17:18 talk about it and talk about the latest
00:17:18 --> 00:17:20 research on this. So, what's the story?
00:17:20 --> 00:17:23 Um on the night of the 18th of December
00:17:24 --> 00:17:26 2019,
00:17:26 --> 00:17:30 uh there was uh a microlensing event
00:17:30 --> 00:17:33 observed with a star in the large
00:17:33 --> 00:17:35 Melanic cloud, the the the nearest of
00:17:35 --> 00:17:38 our sort of largeish galactic neighbors,
00:17:38 --> 00:17:41 the um the the the satellite galaxy of
00:17:41 --> 00:17:44 our Milky Way, 165 light years away
00:17:44 --> 00:17:47 as the crow flies as far as I remember.
00:17:47 --> 00:17:50 So um what's a microlensing event? Well,
00:17:50 --> 00:17:53 something passes in front of a star. Uh,
00:17:53 --> 00:17:55 you can't actually see the something
00:17:55 --> 00:17:57 because it's too faint. You can see the
00:17:57 --> 00:18:00 light of the star. And you might think
00:18:00 --> 00:18:01 there's something passing in front of a
00:18:01 --> 00:18:04 star, it would dim the light of the
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07 star. But actually, if the geometry is
00:18:07 --> 00:18:08 right, in other words, if the if there's
00:18:08 --> 00:18:10 something that passes between you and
00:18:10 --> 00:18:12 the star is far enough away from the
00:18:12 --> 00:18:15 star, you get the opposite effect. the
00:18:15 --> 00:18:17 um distortion of the space around the
00:18:17 --> 00:18:20 invisible object uh actually acts as a
00:18:20 --> 00:18:23 magnifying glass and so you get a
00:18:23 --> 00:18:25 brightening of the light of the distant
00:18:25 --> 00:18:28 star. Uh and this is a phenomenon known
00:18:28 --> 00:18:30 as gravitational microlensing. It's well
00:18:30 --> 00:18:32 established, well observed. Uh there's a
00:18:32 --> 00:18:35 team in New Zealand which um is very
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38 very adept at these microlensing
00:18:38 --> 00:18:43 observations. Uh so um what we see when
00:18:43 --> 00:18:45 that happens is a rise in the brightness
00:18:45 --> 00:18:48 of the star and then a fall in the
00:18:48 --> 00:18:51 brightness of the background star uh
00:18:51 --> 00:18:54 which you we call a excuse me we call a
00:18:54 --> 00:18:56 light curve. It's the way the light
00:18:56 --> 00:18:58 changes over time. You can plot it out
00:18:58 --> 00:19:00 as a graph and it's got a very
00:19:00 --> 00:19:02 characteristic shape. It's a bit like a
00:19:02 --> 00:19:05 a rather elongated volcano. It's got a
00:19:05 --> 00:19:09 steady rise to a peak and then a rapid
00:19:09 --> 00:19:11 fall that falls away very like the
00:19:11 --> 00:19:14 flanks of a a volcano. So that's the
00:19:14 --> 00:19:17 sort of shape. So this uh was the event
00:19:17 --> 00:19:20 that was observed on the 18th of
00:19:20 --> 00:19:21 December.
00:19:21 --> 00:19:23 Can't remember which telescope it was
00:19:23 --> 00:19:27 used. Uh but we have a group of
00:19:27 --> 00:19:30 Australians who are directly involved
00:19:30 --> 00:19:35 with this. Uh so they the question is
00:19:35 --> 00:19:38 what was the object that passed in front
00:19:38 --> 00:19:39 of the star?
00:19:39 --> 00:19:41 >> Guess
00:19:41 --> 00:19:43 >> maybe a primordial black hole.
00:19:44 --> 00:19:47 >> Well that's that's the perhaps the most
00:19:47 --> 00:19:52 um provocative explanation. Uh they've
00:19:52 --> 00:19:53 given it a name this thing. They've
00:19:53 --> 00:19:55 called it Phoebe which is I think a
00:19:55 --> 00:19:59 lovely name actually. Um but uh the
00:19:59 --> 00:20:05 issue is it is kind of too small to be
00:20:05 --> 00:20:10 anything normal if you put it that way.
00:20:10 --> 00:20:15 >> Um so what are the possibilities? One is
00:20:15 --> 00:20:18 a what we sometimes call a rogue planet
00:20:18 --> 00:20:21 or a an orphan planet. Better known
00:20:21 --> 00:20:23 perhaps as a free floating planet. In
00:20:23 --> 00:20:26 other words, a planetary sized object.
00:20:26 --> 00:20:28 maybe something that's been ejected from
00:20:28 --> 00:20:31 its solar system or something that never
00:20:31 --> 00:20:33 gained enough mass to become a star and
00:20:33 --> 00:20:36 it's just sort of wandering uh through
00:20:36 --> 00:20:38 the galaxy. Uh there we know there are
00:20:38 --> 00:20:41 many of these things. Uh so that could
00:20:41 --> 00:20:44 be one of the uh one of the explanations
00:20:44 --> 00:20:48 for it. But uh the the issue is this
00:20:48 --> 00:20:53 thing has basically got a very very
00:20:53 --> 00:20:56 small mass. Uh it's only about three
00:20:56 --> 00:20:57 times the mass of the moon.
00:20:58 --> 00:20:58 >> Oh.
00:20:58 --> 00:21:01 >> Uh and that's kind of small for a
00:21:01 --> 00:21:06 planet. Uh so it suggests it's an object
00:21:06 --> 00:21:10 that is, you know, not a dwarf planet or
00:21:10 --> 00:21:11 sorry, a rogue planet or an orphan
00:21:12 --> 00:21:15 planet. Um and it points towards this
00:21:15 --> 00:21:19 much more exotic notion of a primordial
00:21:19 --> 00:21:22 black hole. Uh which you've kind of, you
00:21:22 --> 00:21:24 know, you've already flagged. Uh, and
00:21:24 --> 00:21:26 that's where it gets really exciting.
00:21:26 --> 00:21:29 So, primordial black holes, we've talked
00:21:29 --> 00:21:32 about them before. They were predicted
00:21:32 --> 00:21:36 by Steven Hawking. Um, they were
00:21:36 --> 00:21:38 predicted by him to have been a
00:21:38 --> 00:21:41 byproduct of the big bang. In other
00:21:41 --> 00:21:43 words, these are things that don't form
00:21:44 --> 00:21:46 from collapsing stars like the stellar
00:21:46 --> 00:21:50 mass black holes that we see, but from
00:21:50 --> 00:21:54 um well, basically um fluctuations in
00:21:54 --> 00:21:58 the density uh in the first few
00:21:58 --> 00:22:01 milliseconds after the big bang, the
00:22:01 --> 00:22:03 density of that hot medium. Uh, in other
00:22:03 --> 00:22:05 words, you know, if you could get these
00:22:05 --> 00:22:07 little spots that collapse
00:22:07 --> 00:22:10 instantaneously to become a black hole,
00:22:10 --> 00:22:12 what you'll produce in the big bang is
00:22:12 --> 00:22:15 not just time and space, but you litter
00:22:15 --> 00:22:18 it with these primordial black holes.
00:22:18 --> 00:22:21 And I think it's from Hawking's work
00:22:22 --> 00:22:24 that we assume that they can be any size
00:22:24 --> 00:22:27 you like. Um they can be you know
00:22:27 --> 00:22:30 perhaps uh super massive black holes
00:22:30 --> 00:22:31 which we know are the centers of
00:22:31 --> 00:22:36 galaxies uh or smaller than stellar mass
00:22:36 --> 00:22:38 black holes. And so by a stellar mass
00:22:38 --> 00:22:40 black hole we mean one that has a mass
00:22:40 --> 00:22:43 of about not too different from a star.
00:22:43 --> 00:22:45 In fact typically about five times the
00:22:45 --> 00:22:48 mass of the sun. Um and they are thought
00:22:48 --> 00:22:50 to have been caused by a star exploding
00:22:50 --> 00:22:52 at the end of its life. The core
00:22:52 --> 00:22:54 collapses. uh nothing will stop the
00:22:54 --> 00:22:55 collapse and it goes into becoming a
00:22:55 --> 00:22:58 black hole. But for a star to behave
00:22:58 --> 00:23:01 like that, it's got to be massive. It's
00:23:01 --> 00:23:03 got to be at least well five to 10 times
00:23:03 --> 00:23:06 the mass of the sun. Um so that does not
00:23:06 --> 00:23:09 account for things that are three times
00:23:09 --> 00:23:13 the mass of the moon. Uh but if you can
00:23:13 --> 00:23:16 have um if you can have primordial black
00:23:16 --> 00:23:21 holes of any mass then that makes Phoebe
00:23:21 --> 00:23:26 a very distinct candidate for a a
00:23:26 --> 00:23:28 primordial black hole. Um I might
00:23:28 --> 00:23:31 mention that the researchers who've done
00:23:31 --> 00:23:34 this uh work are at Swimburn University
00:23:34 --> 00:23:37 in Melbourne uh an university very
00:23:37 --> 00:23:40 active in its studies of actually most
00:23:40 --> 00:23:43 phenomena to do with our galaxy. Uh
00:23:43 --> 00:23:45 they've got some extremely talented
00:23:45 --> 00:23:46 scientists there some of whom I know
00:23:46 --> 00:23:47 quite well.
00:23:47 --> 00:23:51 >> Um so uh it's it's definitely a
00:23:51 --> 00:23:53 microlensing event. Something has caused
00:23:53 --> 00:23:56 this phenomenon. Uh the question is what
00:23:56 --> 00:23:57 is it?
00:23:58 --> 00:24:01 So let me um
00:24:01 --> 00:24:05 segue if I may to one of the talks at
00:24:05 --> 00:24:07 the conference that I was at in Germany.
00:24:07 --> 00:24:08 >> Yeah.
00:24:08 --> 00:24:11 >> Uh given by people who are well in this
00:24:11 --> 00:24:13 case it was a black hole specialist
00:24:13 --> 00:24:18 >> and he was saying that the the evidence
00:24:18 --> 00:24:24 for primordial black holes is growing.
00:24:24 --> 00:24:26 Uh and this is just one more example of
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 it. this the the example of Phoebe here.
00:24:29 --> 00:24:32 Uh but he also said he thought this was
00:24:32 --> 00:24:36 the next big thing in black hole science
00:24:36 --> 00:24:40 uh to actually determine the reality of
00:24:40 --> 00:24:42 primordial black holes whether they are
00:24:42 --> 00:24:44 there or whether they're just a a wild
00:24:44 --> 00:24:48 prediction of of Professor Hawking. Um
00:24:48 --> 00:24:51 but he also made the comment the comment
00:24:51 --> 00:24:54 sorry not the comet he made the comment
00:24:54 --> 00:24:58 that uh it was his belief that the next
00:24:58 --> 00:25:00 Nobel Prize in astronomy or physics is
00:25:00 --> 00:25:03 is the way it goes would be the
00:25:03 --> 00:25:07 discovery of a primordial black hole. In
00:25:07 --> 00:25:08 other words
00:25:08 --> 00:25:11 finding absolutely rocksolid evidence
00:25:11 --> 00:25:13 that primordial black holes exist. Now,
00:25:13 --> 00:25:16 Phoebe is not that rockolid evidence
00:25:16 --> 00:25:18 because we've got multiple theories.
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20 >> Uh, yeah, multiple theories. It could
00:25:20 --> 00:25:24 even be uh, you know, a a lost satellite
00:25:24 --> 00:25:26 of a planet that's been chucked out of
00:25:26 --> 00:25:28 its solar system.
00:25:28 --> 00:25:30 >> So, it could be an object like the moon
00:25:30 --> 00:25:32 or Mercury or something like that.
00:25:32 --> 00:25:35 >> But that seems unlikely. Um, but and in
00:25:35 --> 00:25:38 fact, the um the, you know, the the
00:25:38 --> 00:25:40 primordial mass black hole idea I think
00:25:40 --> 00:25:43 is much more interesting. It's one that
00:25:43 --> 00:25:46 I'm sure will be looked at in detail.
00:25:46 --> 00:25:48 The problem with these gravitational
00:25:48 --> 00:25:50 micro lenting events, Andrew, is you
00:25:50 --> 00:25:52 only get one shot at it. You never see
00:25:52 --> 00:25:55 the object again. So Phoebe's basically
00:25:55 --> 00:25:57 never going to be seen again. All we've
00:25:57 --> 00:25:59 seen is the effect of it passing in
00:25:59 --> 00:26:00 front of a star.
00:26:00 --> 00:26:04 >> Yeah. Um, so, uh, what we've got to look
00:26:04 --> 00:26:07 for is other perhaps other similar
00:26:07 --> 00:26:10 phenomena, uh, or something that is an
00:26:10 --> 00:26:12 unequivocally a black hole but has a
00:26:12 --> 00:26:14 mass less than the sun. And we did talk
00:26:14 --> 00:26:18 about a candidate object uh, before we
00:26:18 --> 00:26:20 both went on our various surn. Uh, we
00:26:20 --> 00:26:22 did talk about an object like that. I'd
00:26:22 --> 00:26:24 need to look it up to find out what it
00:26:24 --> 00:26:26 was. But if, you know, if we can nail
00:26:26 --> 00:26:28 one of these things and say that is
00:26:28 --> 00:26:31 definitely what it is. Um, in fact, the
00:26:31 --> 00:26:33 object we talked about was the result of
00:26:33 --> 00:26:35 a, I think, a collision that was
00:26:35 --> 00:26:37 measured with gravitational waves. So,
00:26:37 --> 00:26:40 all this is perhaps pointing to the idea
00:26:40 --> 00:26:42 of primordial mass black holes. Somebody
00:26:42 --> 00:26:44 will nail it before too long and they'll
00:26:44 --> 00:26:47 probably get the Nobel Prize. Well, I
00:26:47 --> 00:26:49 suppose we shouldn't be surprised
00:26:49 --> 00:26:52 because in the past we've had theories
00:26:52 --> 00:26:54 about things existing and voila,
00:26:54 --> 00:26:57 suddenly we find an exoplanet and now we
00:26:57 --> 00:26:59 found thousands and thousands of them.
00:26:59 --> 00:27:01 So, it stands to reason that this is
00:27:01 --> 00:27:02 just another progression in that regard.
00:27:02 --> 00:27:04 We're
00:27:04 --> 00:27:06 >> the evidence is stacking up. We haven't
00:27:06 --> 00:27:09 confirmed one yet, but it sounds like
00:27:09 --> 00:27:12 it's going to happen. Yeah, I think
00:27:12 --> 00:27:14 that's right. I think we're on the track
00:27:14 --> 00:27:20 of uh a whole new regime of physics. And
00:27:20 --> 00:27:23 of course, uh primordial black holes are
00:27:23 --> 00:27:26 one potential candidate for dark matter.
00:27:26 --> 00:27:27 Mhm.
00:27:27 --> 00:27:33 >> Um, which was ruled out in the 1990s,
00:27:33 --> 00:27:35 maybe prematurely. It was ruled out
00:27:35 --> 00:27:38 because we didn't see a whole lot of
00:27:38 --> 00:27:40 these microlending events, which you'd
00:27:40 --> 00:27:42 expect to see if there was a lot of
00:27:42 --> 00:27:45 primordial mass black holes. Maybe it's
00:27:45 --> 00:27:46 just that we weren't looking hard enough
00:27:46 --> 00:27:47 that we missed them.
00:27:48 --> 00:27:48 >> Maybe.
00:27:48 --> 00:27:49 >> Um, yeah,
00:27:49 --> 00:27:51 >> I never look hard enough for anything.
00:27:51 --> 00:27:51 No.
00:27:51 --> 00:27:54 >> Well, well, that's cuz you're a you're a
00:27:54 --> 00:27:57 male. Yeah, you're a bloke and we don't
00:27:57 --> 00:27:59 we we look at something and we just
00:27:59 --> 00:28:00 don't see it.
00:28:00 --> 00:28:03 >> No. No.
00:28:03 --> 00:28:06 >> Which is, you know, not real good for
00:28:06 --> 00:28:07 human history because weren't we the
00:28:07 --> 00:28:09 hunters? Like we were supposed to be
00:28:09 --> 00:28:12 able to see stuff that quite
00:28:12 --> 00:28:15 >> Oh dear. Uh it's a a really fascinating
00:28:15 --> 00:28:18 story and I venture to say there'll be
00:28:18 --> 00:28:20 more on this in the not too distant
00:28:20 --> 00:28:21 future, but you can read about it uh
00:28:21 --> 00:28:23 great article about it on the
00:28:23 --> 00:28:25 universetoday.com
00:28:25 --> 00:28:28 website. You're listening to and
00:28:28 --> 00:28:30 possibly viewing space nuts with Andrew
00:28:30 --> 00:28:35 Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.
00:28:35 --> 00:28:37 >> Roger. Also,
00:28:37 --> 00:28:39 >> Space Nuts. Now, final story, Fred,
00:28:39 --> 00:28:42 intrigues me for one very good reason.
00:28:42 --> 00:28:44 It's one of the pet topics of our
00:28:44 --> 00:28:45 audience. We get a lot of questions
00:28:45 --> 00:28:50 about dark energy. But this s story pers
00:28:50 --> 00:28:53 the question, did we actually invent
00:28:53 --> 00:28:55 dark energy for nothing? Why are they
00:28:55 --> 00:28:58 suggesting that?
00:28:58 --> 00:28:59 >> Um,
00:28:59 --> 00:29:03 yeah, it's all mathematics.
00:29:03 --> 00:29:06 And I'd like just to refer uh listeners
00:29:06 --> 00:29:09 and viewers uh at the outset to a very
00:29:09 --> 00:29:14 nice article uh on this uh from um our
00:29:14 --> 00:29:17 much admired Universe Today uh website
00:29:17 --> 00:29:21 that's kind of an old friend of of um of
00:29:21 --> 00:29:23 Space Nuts, an article written by Mark
00:29:23 --> 00:29:27 Thompson uh which really very eloquently
00:29:27 --> 00:29:30 puts this story into perspective. And
00:29:30 --> 00:29:32 I'm I'm going to quote Mark. I hope he
00:29:32 --> 00:29:34 won't mind me doing that. Um it because
00:29:34 --> 00:29:37 he he introduces this uh this article by
00:29:37 --> 00:29:40 saying stand a pencil on its end and
00:29:40 --> 00:29:43 mathematically speaking it's perfectly
00:29:43 --> 00:29:44 balanced. Every force is accounted for
00:29:44 --> 00:29:47 and the equations are satisfied. And yet
00:29:47 --> 00:29:49 you already know what happens next, the
00:29:49 --> 00:29:51 slightest disturbance and it topples. A
00:29:51 --> 00:29:54 solution that exists on paper but can
00:29:54 --> 00:29:58 never survive contact with reality. In
00:29:58 --> 00:30:01 other words, um something that's stable
00:30:01 --> 00:30:05 but only stable briefly. Uh I think I'm
00:30:05 --> 00:30:07 paraphrasing what he's getting at with
00:30:07 --> 00:30:09 that. Yeah. Uh but just to read a little
00:30:09 --> 00:30:11 bit further uh from Mark's article,
00:30:11 --> 00:30:13 that's the image Blake Temple, a
00:30:13 --> 00:30:14 mathematician at the University of
00:30:14 --> 00:30:17 California, Davis, uses to describe our
00:30:17 --> 00:30:19 best model of the universe. And it's a
00:30:19 --> 00:30:22 deeply uncomfortable one. And so I think
00:30:22 --> 00:30:26 the way this story evolves is that yes
00:30:26 --> 00:30:28 we've uh for 30 years almost 30 years
00:30:28 --> 00:30:30 it's 1998
00:30:30 --> 00:30:33 when the accelerated expansion of the
00:30:33 --> 00:30:35 universe was discovered.
00:30:35 --> 00:30:36 >> Yeah.
00:30:36 --> 00:30:40 >> Uh by uh my colleague um Bradmitt and
00:30:40 --> 00:30:44 his uh uh his actually competitors over
00:30:44 --> 00:30:47 over the Pacific Soul Pul Muta and his
00:30:47 --> 00:30:49 team. uh they they jointly won the Nobel
00:30:49 --> 00:30:53 Prize in 2011 for that discovery that
00:30:53 --> 00:30:56 the um the accelerate the expansion of
00:30:56 --> 00:30:59 the universe is accelerating and so um
00:30:59 --> 00:31:02 the issue was to try and explain that
00:31:02 --> 00:31:05 and that's why dark energy was
00:31:05 --> 00:31:08 introduced as a as a concept uh an
00:31:08 --> 00:31:10 invisible
00:31:10 --> 00:31:13 outward pressure um that is part of
00:31:13 --> 00:31:16 space uh just pushes space and
00:31:16 --> 00:31:20 everything in it apart. part. Um and so
00:31:20 --> 00:31:23 that's where we get our idea of dark
00:31:23 --> 00:31:27 energy from. But um this um
00:31:27 --> 00:31:31 mathematician uh Blake Temple has said
00:31:32 --> 00:31:36 okay maybe we're taking too simplistic a
00:31:36 --> 00:31:41 view of all this. Uh and uh I think it's
00:31:41 --> 00:31:44 a group of uh of mathematicians led by
00:31:44 --> 00:31:46 Dr. Temple. uh they've got a paper in
00:31:46 --> 00:31:48 the proceedings of the Royal Society.
00:31:48 --> 00:31:49 You don't get papers in there if they're
00:31:49 --> 00:31:51 rubbish. So, no.
00:31:51 --> 00:31:52 >> Uh there's something to think about
00:31:52 --> 00:31:55 there. And they've actually uh
00:31:55 --> 00:31:58 mathematically demonstrated
00:31:58 --> 00:32:03 that our u model of the expansion of the
00:32:03 --> 00:32:07 universe with dark energy in it is
00:32:07 --> 00:32:11 unstable. Uh it's something that can't
00:32:11 --> 00:32:12 survive.
00:32:12 --> 00:32:16 Um and that's
00:32:16 --> 00:32:21 almost uh means that you can rule it out
00:32:21 --> 00:32:24 uh in the world of physics. Uh if you've
00:32:24 --> 00:32:27 got a solution that's unstable uh then
00:32:27 --> 00:32:30 it shouldn't it shouldn't happen. And so
00:32:30 --> 00:32:34 um what u uh Dr. Temple and his
00:32:34 --> 00:32:37 associates are proposing is that we've
00:32:37 --> 00:32:41 got it wrong. uh and that uh the model
00:32:41 --> 00:32:45 of the universe that we that we have
00:32:45 --> 00:32:49 which assumes that matter is basically
00:32:49 --> 00:32:50 spread throughout the universe. You know
00:32:50 --> 00:32:53 that the universe isotropic. It's the
00:32:53 --> 00:32:57 same in all directions. Uh is suggesting
00:32:57 --> 00:33:01 that that is also unstable.
00:33:01 --> 00:33:04 um and that really we have to take into
00:33:04 --> 00:33:06 account the fact that the universe isn't
00:33:06 --> 00:33:12 the same everywhere. Um it's uh it's I
00:33:12 --> 00:33:14 can't really go in deeply to the
00:33:14 --> 00:33:16 mathematics because I'm actually looked
00:33:16 --> 00:33:20 at the the the original paper. Um and so
00:33:20 --> 00:33:23 I haven't followed the mathematical
00:33:23 --> 00:33:26 um steps in the process. And between you
00:33:26 --> 00:33:28 and me, Andrew, I probably couldn't
00:33:28 --> 00:33:31 anyway even if I looked at the paper.
00:33:31 --> 00:33:33 I do remember what some of the equations
00:33:34 --> 00:33:36 that uh that govern this sort of thing
00:33:36 --> 00:33:37 look like. And I do remember the
00:33:37 --> 00:33:41 emotional response that my my psyche
00:33:41 --> 00:33:44 gets to them. But basically um what
00:33:44 --> 00:33:49 they're saying is that uh
00:33:49 --> 00:33:52 that accelerated expansion
00:33:52 --> 00:33:57 um is actually part of what Einstein
00:33:57 --> 00:34:01 suggested in the first place um without
00:34:01 --> 00:34:05 the need to invoke dark energy. Uh and
00:34:05 --> 00:34:09 it it's it's it's I'm simplifying I
00:34:09 --> 00:34:13 guess uh what um Mark the the author of
00:34:13 --> 00:34:15 this this article has written. Uh but
00:34:15 --> 00:34:19 the bottom line is that um our our um
00:34:19 --> 00:34:21 view of the universe on its largest
00:34:22 --> 00:34:26 scale is probably naive. It's probably
00:34:26 --> 00:34:29 we've perhaps oversimplified it and as a
00:34:29 --> 00:34:31 result of that we've come out with the
00:34:31 --> 00:34:34 wrong answer. Um, I might just
00:34:34 --> 00:34:36 >> That's a really big call though, isn't
00:34:36 --> 00:34:36 it?
00:34:36 --> 00:34:39 >> It's a huge call. Absolutely huge call.
00:34:39 --> 00:34:41 Uh,
00:34:41 --> 00:34:44 I I Let me just wind up with the last
00:34:44 --> 00:34:45 paragraph that uh
00:34:45 --> 00:34:47 >> Yeah, I was just looking at that myself
00:34:48 --> 00:34:49 >> because that's the Yeah, that Mark
00:34:49 --> 00:34:51 Thompson's written. I think it really
00:34:51 --> 00:34:54 sums it up. Dark energy has never felt
00:34:54 --> 00:34:56 entirely comfortable to many scientists.
00:34:56 --> 00:34:58 Einstein himself introduced something
00:34:58 --> 00:34:59 very like it, which he called his
00:34:59 --> 00:35:02 cosmological constant. then subsequently
00:35:02 --> 00:35:04 called it his biggest blunder. It was
00:35:04 --> 00:35:06 quietly resurrected in the 1990s when
00:35:06 --> 00:35:08 the data demanded it. That's when the
00:35:08 --> 00:35:11 accelerated expansion was discovered.
00:35:11 --> 00:35:13 Now the mathematics might be telling us
00:35:13 --> 00:35:15 it was never needed in the first place.
00:35:15 --> 00:35:17 The universe, it turns out, may be s
00:35:17 --> 00:35:21 stranger and simpler than we thought,
00:35:21 --> 00:35:23 only both at the same time. It's a great
00:35:23 --> 00:35:25 article. I encourage all our listeners
00:35:26 --> 00:35:27 to have a look at it. Yes, it's at the
00:35:28 --> 00:35:29 universitytoday.com
00:35:29 --> 00:35:32 website or you can read the paper at the
00:35:32 --> 00:35:34 proceedings of the Royal Society. But uh
00:35:34 --> 00:35:36 I dare say we haven't heard the last of
00:35:36 --> 00:35:38 this.
00:35:38 --> 00:35:39 >> Uh and what if what if we have got it
00:35:40 --> 00:35:43 wrong? What if dark energy is a fury? Um
00:35:43 --> 00:35:45 that that's the that's the big question.
00:35:45 --> 00:35:48 But uh they they seem to be
00:35:48 --> 00:35:50 >> ing towards the probability that it that
00:35:50 --> 00:35:52 it is in fact a fury.
00:35:52 --> 00:35:57 >> That that's right. Um, you know, uh,
00:35:57 --> 00:36:02 I suspect that, um, this theory, uh, if
00:36:02 --> 00:36:04 you, if you eliminate the need for dark
00:36:04 --> 00:36:06 energy, you might well eliminate the
00:36:06 --> 00:36:08 need for dark matter as well.
00:36:08 --> 00:36:11 >> Uh, or it might turn out to be
00:36:11 --> 00:36:12 primordial black holes. Look, we're
00:36:12 --> 00:36:16 we've covered two potential uh,
00:36:16 --> 00:36:18 solutions to the dark matter problem in
00:36:18 --> 00:36:21 this in this episode. Uh, nobody can
00:36:21 --> 00:36:23 accuse us of not addressing the big
00:36:23 --> 00:36:24 questions, Andrew.
00:36:24 --> 00:36:26 >> Absolutely. We just don't give them the
00:36:26 --> 00:36:26 big answers.
00:36:26 --> 00:36:28 >> We don't give them the answers. No,
00:36:28 --> 00:36:28 that's right.
00:36:28 --> 00:36:30 >> Leave that to somebody else
00:36:30 --> 00:36:31 >> because we don't know.
00:36:31 --> 00:36:33 >> No, we don't. No, we don't. But, uh, no,
00:36:33 --> 00:36:35 fascinating, fascinating story. Couple
00:36:35 --> 00:36:38 of fascinating stories. Uh, and it all
00:36:38 --> 00:36:39 started with a big bang called Blue
00:36:39 --> 00:36:40 Origin. Um,
00:36:40 --> 00:36:43 >> yes, it did. That's right. It was a huge
00:36:43 --> 00:36:43 bang.
00:36:43 --> 00:36:46 >> It was. Uh, that brings us to the end.
00:36:46 --> 00:36:48 Fred, thank you very much.
00:36:48 --> 00:36:50 >> It's a pleasure, Andrew. Always good to
00:36:50 --> 00:36:52 have a chat and uh bring to the
00:36:52 --> 00:36:54 forefront exactly what's happening in
00:36:54 --> 00:36:56 the deep depths of the universe.
00:36:56 --> 00:36:58 >> Indeed. And good to have you back too.
00:36:58 --> 00:37:00 Thank you. Professor Fred Watson,
00:37:00 --> 00:37:01 astronomer at large. Uh don't forget to
00:37:01 --> 00:37:04 visit us online at our website if you so
00:37:04 --> 00:37:06 desire. Uh spaceodcast.com.
00:37:06 --> 00:37:09 You can click on the AMA link at the top
00:37:09 --> 00:37:12 and ask us anything or ask u anybody
00:37:12 --> 00:37:14 anything really, but we always make
00:37:14 --> 00:37:15 comments. Uh you can sign up for the
00:37:16 --> 00:37:19 astron astronomy daily feed. Uh you can
00:37:19 --> 00:37:20 become a supporter if you so desire. And
00:37:20 --> 00:37:23 don't forget to leave uh reviews at your
00:37:23 --> 00:37:25 favorite podcasting platform. Wherever
00:37:25 --> 00:37:27 you listen to us, reviews are really
00:37:27 --> 00:37:29 useful, unless they're bad. But then
00:37:29 --> 00:37:30 again, there are some people who like
00:37:30 --> 00:37:32 bad because they want to see what all
00:37:32 --> 00:37:34 the fuss is about. Uh but don't do it.
00:37:34 --> 00:37:36 Don't you want to? I'm not going to tell
00:37:36 --> 00:37:38 you what to do. Um but anyway, that's
00:37:38 --> 00:37:41 it. And thanks to Hugh in the studio who
00:37:41 --> 00:37:42 couldn't be with us today because he's a
00:37:42 --> 00:37:44 fury. And from me, Andrew Dunley, thanks
00:37:44 --> 00:37:46 for your company on this edition. and
00:37:46 --> 00:37:48 we'll catch you on the next episode of
00:37:48 --> 00:37:50 Space Nuts. Bye-bye.
00:37:50 --> 00:37:51 >> Space Nuts.
00:37:51 --> 00:37:53 >> You've been listening to the Space Nuts
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